E36 | When to Ditch Your Coach

Today, on GETTING TO UNSTUCK, we're tackling a sensitive but crucial topic: "When to Ditch Your Coach."

What are the telltale signs that your current coaching setup might not be serving your organization as effectively as it should? 

Maybe you've been feeling a lack of progress or sense that your team isn't fully engaged. 
Perhaps you're noticing more frustration than motivation.

Whatever the case, it's essential to recognize when it's time to pivot and how to measure the effectiveness of any coaching and leadership development solutions that you are investing in.

Getting to Unstuck is a live podcast recorded with Christal Duncan, Colin Kingsmill, and Carol Vickers from Whole Human Coaching. Find out more about our work and the people we help at https://wholehumancoaching.com

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome. It's not Teamwork Tuesday or Thursday, is it? No, it's not. What are we going to call it? 

Wild and Wooly Wednesday! Wild and Wooly Wednesday, yeah, yeah. Wee Wednesday. Well, welcome back to the show. It's Saturday. It's been, it's been a hot minute since we've been around.

We've been had some traveling going on and some different things happening. And so we're glad to be back here, sitting at the microphone and glad to be talking with you today. So thanks for joining us today. We're going to be talking about the elephant. In the room, and this is a conversation that we have a lot between the three of us as we talk about the things that the people that we, the clients that we work with, and the things that we observe and the things that we are learning about the world around us, and that are, once you know, You kind of start to recognize these things, but until someone points it out, sometimes it's not so obvious.

So we're, this is not, we're not going to be talking today about how to 10x your results or how to like hack the [00:01:00] system and hack your everything and how you need to be a super achiever and you're going to become an elite this or that. Today we're going to talk about when to ditch your coach. Actually, and, and.

It's kind of a, when to ditch your coach and what to look for if you don't yet have a coach. So it's kind of, we're, we're we're offering two very specific things here. Mm hmm. Most definitely. You know, it's funny, Crystal, because I'm coming up on 20 years in the coaching profession and I've seen some changes and I've seen some evolution and I've seen some things stay exactly the same.

Yeah. And that's part of what I really appreciate about our conversations is it's about disrupting that. Yeah. Because coaching has a certain box that it fits in and what we want to talk about today, if you've had a coach, what did you get and how would you know that there's so much more available? [00:02:00] Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important for us to start this conversation around really around the idea of helping people understand a little bit about, about coaching in general. So kind of, Carol, can you give us a brief overview, kind of a, kind of the evolution of coaching so that people understand what that means?

Because we still, to this day, have clients that we work with where they're, They, they're, they don't know what to expect with a coach. And so can you help us, give us some context? There's two aspects of this. Coaching, the coaching profession literally grew out of sports coaching. That was the original iterations of it.

Was all about, you know, we can coach, we can coach people in an office the way we coach the football team. And that was where the kind of beginnings of it came. And then. Personal development work got in there and said, no, no, no, no, that's, there's not, there's lots more aspects to it that we are talking [00:03:00] about human beings, not just who are running drills on a sports field.

And so in over the years, what has happened is hopefully that there is more and more human development work that is going into being into the coaching business. However, there are coaches that drill people just the same way a sports coach does. And us as coaches still get asked, what sport do you coach?

At least I do. It's like, Oh, you must be a figure skating coach because you're not, you're not a football coach, right? However, what in coaching in organizations now, it's such a buzzword. You either need to be a coach as a leader in your job description. Or you're assigned a coach because there's this understanding that having a coach somehow makes you better.

Yeah. But it has, it's distinguished for people who get coaches, they're either the [00:04:00] elite, they're the C suite folks, or they're people who need a remedial coach. Like we're going to coach you, but what we're really doing is preparing to kick you out the door. Both of those things happen. Ooh, that's interesting.

Interesting. My problem with the whole thing. Sorry, Carol. My problem with the whole thing is that it feels as though we are in in an emergency room, right. In, in our coaching, it feels as though people come into that sacred 50 minutes or hour that they've got. And, and it, It's, it feels as though coaching kind of ignores what's going on around them and around us and around the world.

So you come into that coaching session and so often it's, it, it just feels like an emergency room triage situation. Yeah. Yeah, it really does. And then you leave, the person leaves and you're like, Oh God, I [00:05:00] hope you're going to be okay until the next time, because I think, I think the coaching industry isn't, doesn't have a wide enough angle lens on the issues and the challenges that we have today in this world.

Right with AI coming down the barrel with mental illness all over the place challenging people It's it's it's it's almost as if i'm correcting me if you think i'm wrong guys, but it's almost as if Coaching almost forgets that there isn't something going on outside You know that they come in the door and and kind of leave their human persona and just you know focus on a on a On a business concept I think Yeah, I'm dabbling on anyway, you know what I'm thinking about.

Yeah, well I do, I do agree with you that there is, there is that element, maybe that it's an element of an expectation. So, for example when I start conversations with some people, if this is their [00:06:00] first call, like let's say we're coaching them, and behalf of an organization. The, the people that I'm coaching may not understand even what to look for or how to think about what to get out of it.

And Colin, you and I talked about, you know, the reality is in coaching, your when you're having a true coaching conversation, there is, there has to be the space for them. We're holding space with them for them because it's we're on the understanding, holding the understanding that they hold the answers inside of them.

And there's this interesting crossover right now where at this funny intersection in time, we want to believe they have the answers inside of them. There's that element of you that maybe is like still, still. Being, being able to hold onto that, but we're looking for quick fixes all the time. And so much of leadership development, so much of leadership coaching is very and this is not me going on a rant, but it [00:07:00] is very, White male centric.

And so and it takes into it. It's because that's how the industry was first built, quite honestly, right? Like older, older white male that were already advanced in their career or whatever, and they're turning around and they're, they're giving their wisdom and yada, yada. That's how leadership is all kind of been perceived.

And when we are coaching in coaching for leadership from a whole human perspective, It's not about it's not about anecdotes that are going to get them somewhere and, and that they can just be like, Oh, I get it. I guess it worked for that person. I'm going to try it for me. It's about taking into consideration the whole person calling, like what you're talking about, the whole person that enters into that conversation, who they are, right?

It's interesting. You just said something that I think is really important and we might not have talked about it earlier. This idea of the quick fix. I don't know about you guys, but when I go on to LinkedIn or even on [00:08:00] Instagram or any sort of social media these days, there's so many people telling you the three steps, the five steps, the 10 steps, the, the matrix for this.

And. I get overwhelmed. I'm like, how, where do you start to, you know? So, so I think, I think, I think, go ahead. Well, part of it is. We are in a society where things are moving so quickly through, and I, I'm sure we've all had that experience of a client that walks in and has, and they, they're scheduled for an hour, but they're starting to look at their watch by the 10 minutes after because they've got the pile of things that is in the, in the queue waiting for them as soon as the, the session is done.

So we do, there is that kind of sense, well, give me what I need right now because I've got to go back and do the rest of the work. So we're, one of the things that drew us together as coaches is we wanted to take a look at how coaching, [00:09:00] as it has been described in the, in the profession over the last 10 15 years, is not serving people.

It is not looking at them as whole human beings. There is an expectation, as you said, that they check something at the door. They come in. We're going to put a bandage on their gaping wound and send them back out to do, to go, go back into the battlefield. Yeah. Right. And that is not serving human beings with the kind of statistics that we know.

Just looking at it this morning, one in four adults experience mental illness. One in four. That is a shocking, heartbreaking, heartbreaking number. In less than half, get help. Yeah, it's it it's it's it feel that to me is the elephant in the room that nobody's talking about right and and If you expand that the the from mental mental health and mental mental challenges and you [00:10:00] look at Thing even things like fertility and you look at things like birth rates and you look you you start to see A society that's broken, right?

Yeah, and And that's why I think we need to shake up coaching to become something different than it was you know, 10 or 20 years ago, like you were talking about Carol, it, it, it, it feels as though coaches today need to be equipped with an understanding, at least, Maybe not, not of expertise, but to know where to point people in the right direction to say, Hey, you know, I, I feel something around nutrition that you might want to dive into, or, you know, maybe you should look, listen to this podcast because she discusses goal setting and, and stress management and things like that.

Or Because it feels as though they get left alone, right? If you just follow the ICF standard, I feel like we're not serving, and it feels as though we leave people almost in the dark. [00:11:00] If you stick to the old rules, which are still valid, but it's like, Yes. And more, please. Yes. Yeah. And I want to be clear because I'm a member of the ICF and I train coaches.

And so I want to be really clear that we are not advocating that a coach become that, that, that a person who calls himself a coach, all of a sudden also becomes a nutritional expert or this or that, unless they have that training and expertise. However, I'm It is important to recognize as we are looking at who we are coaching, what else do they need?

Where can we refer? What resources do we know? And how are we as coaches developing ourselves? Yes. Address what's going on in the current world. So I'm going to give you a scenario about conversations about a coaching conversation that will often happen. Colin and I have talked about this with our clients.[00:12:00] 

That we will often have these kind of conversations with clients where you, you at the end of a conversation. So in a coaching, in a coaching call on the context of how we coach that we are always, we're always on the, under the understanding and the agreement with our client that you're whole.

This is, we're not going to, we're not here to fix you. We're not, but we are informed about the reality that you are, you may be showing up presenting here as a woman in her late thirties, but you're also might be a mom or a daughter or a niece or a partner, or you might be an employer. You might be, you know, like a community member.

You're all these things and more so you're whole. Over the course of that conversation as they, as we work with them to direct what they want to focus on a lot of times at the end of it, there will be the question. It's like, do you, can you help me with any other resources or anything to help me move on past this?

And so I want [00:13:00] to bring us back to that when to ditch your coach thing. And this is not, this is not a judgment call. So I don't want anyone to hear this as a judgment call. If you are with someone, if, if, if you're, when you're looking for a coach, you also do want to look for P for people who they don't need to be experts.

Like what you said, Carol, they're not claiming to be experts, but there is an element of well rounded in they're well informed about the context that we're living, working, and hoping, working to thrive in, in the world. And that they're not, they're not sitting in an ivory tower, right? They're not far removed from everything.

They actually are there in, they understand basically like the human condition. So let me pose this question. You've, you've, I mean, we have both had coaches and our coaches. If you've had a really, really good coaching session with your coach, What's your [00:14:00] experience at the end of it?

Go ahead, Crystal. Okay. Well, I can, I can speak to that because I've had a lot of excellent, I've had a lot of excellent coaching. Number one, I always feel much more clear. I feel like I've cleared the space around myself. I've, I've changed my perspective. I will often feel inspired and energized at the end of it.

And Through the course of that conversation I often have gleaned almost like, what would you call it? Like breadcrumbs to continue on for myself. So I feel, I guess like what I would say is I feel empowered and I have a sense of agency over my life and over the situations that I'm in. What about you, Colin?

I think mine would be more around, yes, and relief, because just sort of relief of a narrative or story that I might have been telling myself [00:15:00] that in the course of that conversation, you discover is just that, it's a story. And it's not it's not a It's not a jail sentence, right? It's, so I've always, for me, good coaching is, is that, that release from the prison of your mind in that moment.

Okay. So the opposite of that. So then when to ditch your coach is when you don't walk away with those kind of sense of relief and sense of empowerment. Or when your coach is somehow not seeing you as all of who you are. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. Or you or if you feel like you've been told what you should do, rather than given instructions.

Rather than someone hold the space for you to kind of like pull back the curtain yourself in the conversation. Because being told what to do. Sorry. No, go ahead. All right. Let me finish this thought and [00:16:00] then I will hand it over to you. Yeah. Being told what to do is not coaching. And we're also, we're always very clear at the end of the conversation.

So when, and someone asks, if someone asks for like, they're giving you permission, To do that, but it is one of the first things you learn in coach training is you get, it's going to feel like you're sitting on your hands because you want to tell people what to do. We're conditioned to want to give advice.

So if you're a coach, if you find that in a coaching conversation, you're being told what to do or how you should think that is not, that is like, that's just not going to serve you because it's, it's, it's negating. And it's negating the truth that you are whole and complete, no matter what, no matter what.

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Colin, go ahead. Oh yeah, I would just add, I also don't want a coach that is kind of artificially content like, I want reality. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, [00:17:00] you know, some, some, some, I haven't had many, but, but, you know, when you're with somebody and it's like, come on, you know, this situation sucks, can you have some empathy, I guess, I guess, I guess, yeah, or understanding Yeah, we call it toxic, toxic positivity for a reason, right?

Those are the words I was looking for. Exactly. That sort of, Oh, everything's going to be fine. Oh yeah. Okay. I want survival tools, not, not, you know, yeah. Blue sky. Blue skies. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From survival to thriving. Survive to thrive. Right. Exactly. Because I think the experience that I hear in most people is they're just barely hanging on.

Right? We've got, it's in your teeth. We're going to make it through [00:18:00] to Friday. We're going to do this. And that's such a, it's such a tragedy. Because life can be so much richer than that and I consider my, my role as a coach to be asking the questions that help people experience more of their life, that there is more of life.

More of them in everything that they are, that they are doing, whether it's their role as a, as a leader or whether it's their role as a partner or whether it's as a mom or a daughter or son, that they have, they have a sense of who, of all of who they are that can contribute to that. So what do people do if they don't have the right coach?

Where do you go? I

mean, I think it's a question to take back. Coaches are brought in to organizations. Sometimes they're a good fit, but sometimes they're not. But I think it's an honest [00:19:00] conversation to have with your HR department or with your coach. Like, I need, this is what I need. And get clear on how you as the client want to be served.

Because I think that's an aspect that we bring is we want to know, how can I be of service to you? Yeah, and I also think that there is an element and we don't talk about this enough. There is an, there is an element that coaching is measurable. It can be measured. The effects of it can be measured.

It's just, it's it's not like a, it's not like a hard line of, it's not like dollars and cents, which is what, how we often measure business things. But it can be, it still can be measured. We do that with our clients. There's, when we start an engagement with a client, we are, we talk about all the things that can be measured and we give reports back based on anonymous things.

It's obviously observations. Because those are all part of, [00:20:00] it's such a, it's such a big, much bigger conversation because we are, we're living in a world that has that if it does not evolve to any evolve is maybe not the right word, but if it, if we do not trans make the transition into a just and sustainable way of doing business and being in the world and of work, then we're not.

Everything is just going to continue to be depleted, right? Because it's like, it becomes like everything is built on scarcity. And so the things that coaching helps move on and helps make measurable are the elements that actually are regenerative in organizations and in live activity and health in mental in mental health and emotional health.

Those are the things that matter that. have traditionally not been talked about in business coaching at all. Very good point. Yeah. The elephant in the room. The elephant in the room. Yeah. Let's talk [00:21:00] about it and let's talk about it with our clients. Let's as coaches, let's talk about it with our clients.

As clients, as people who are looking for coaches, ask these kinds of questions. How do you coach? What do you do? How do you measure your results? Yeah. And ask, ask questions, get referrals. Yeah. So in light of that I want to remind all of our listeners, thank you for being here. Wherever you are as you're listening to this right now, next week, we have yet another free workshop.

We do a free workshop at the end of every month and they are for anybody at any stage. It doesn't matter. You may be a business of one, you may be a Whatever it is, you you are a leader if you determine that you're a leader. And so we invite you to learn some skills and some personal development growth through the power of learning how coaching and coaching conversations and coaching as a leader can help move the dial for you.

And so you can join us next week, you can find out [00:22:00] more information at wholehumancoaching. com. And if you haven't taken our Wheel of Life assessment, we strongly encourage you to take that. It can give you a lot of great insight so that you know. The things that you really do want to talk about when you enter into those conversations with your coach.

Perfect. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, Carol and Colin. It's always such a pleasure and a privilege to be able to have these conversations. Thanks for showing up. Thank you. Have a great, great morning. Great afternoon. Bye. Thanks for joining. Bye.