SalesGym Interview Series
The SalesGym Interview Series brings you fresh thinking from Sales Leaders that can help you lead, manage and train a higher performing sales team. You’ll gain insights into what top performing sales professionals are doing that are giving them their competitive advantage.
SalesGym Interview Series
Charming the C-suite: Evoking Change from the Top
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Tune in to this unique interview with Robert Reiss to gain a better understanding of what makes CEOs tick and how to sell to them and others in the C-Suite. Robert has intervieweed over 1,000 CEO’s from all industries on his syndicated nationwide radio show and he is CEO of The CEO Forum. If you want to get better at selling to CEOs, this is the podcast for you.
Insights Into Influence
Speaker 1Welcome to the Sales Gym Podcast series , where we meet interesting people that share their insights into influence .
Speaker 1We're speaking with a very special person today . Over the last 15 years here at Sales Gym , we've worked with thousands of salespeople from hundreds of companies , and one of the most common questions we get is how do you get into the C-suite and what's the best way to sell and influence C-suite executives ? Well , the good news is we're talking today with Robert Rieks , founder and CEO of the CEO Forum . Robert and his team have interviewed over a thousand CEOs from many of the most well-known companies in the world . Robert's radio show , which features conversations with CEOs , is now on hundreds of stations across the country . I think it's possible that Robert may be the number one authority on CEOs from the perspective of how to get meetings with them and how they think what to say , what not to say , and that's what we're going to get into . So , to get us started today , robert , we'd love for you to give our audience a little background on how you got the idea for the CEO show and why it has been so successful .
Speaker 2Well , michael , it's great to be with you on an important podcast like this to share information with key people . And so back in the year 2007 , I was trying to learn from CEOs as curious , but I couldn't learn from them anywhere and I knew that CEOs knew two things personal success and business models . But when I tried to read I'd get a book . Maybe it was Gosrin . I go to a speech . You could never get their audience , even when they're interviewed , it would always be the journalist was more interested in the question than the CEO really expanding . So , in fairness , I'm embarrassed to say I was really curious and that's part of my DNA and I wanted to learn from CEOs . So , as a learning opportunity , I said what a great idea If I had a CEO radio show . I can ask the CEOs any questions and I could learn about success and about business models . So I found someone they found WGCH out of Greenwich , connecticut . The show started and I mean frankly , the first show . Probably my wife listened and her parents and that was about it .
Speaker 1So how did you score those first few interviews when you really didn't have a track record , your show was small . How'd you get CEOs to want to open up to you ? How'd you do it ?
Speaker 2Okay , I'm going to tell you it's a little embarrassing , but this is truly what happened . I booked Greenwich , said yeah , we'll do a radio show . When do you want to start ? I said well , three months from now . Because I had no clue of what to do , how to speak to CEOs , where to find CEOs .
Speaker 2And then I believe like cold calling is the key to everything , and someone invited me . They said oh , do you want to go to a breakfast on Mormons and business ? And I'm not Mormon , but I went and I have to tell you I have so much respect for the latter day Saints and I go there and the speaker is David Nealman , the founder of Jet Blue , and I listened to him . And then I just go up to him and I say you know , david , he's phenomenal speaker . And I said I'm doing this radio show , going to CEO show , doing about great customer models , about great CEOs . I'd love you to be a guest , would you be a guest ? He just looks at me and says , sure , call Carol Archer , who's his executive assistant . So I call her up and but meanwhile , what happened then is , while I'm at this event , I'm like wait , there's more people . And it turns out that Jim Quigley , the CEO of Deloitte was there also . So I go up to Jim and I say , jim , I'm doing this radio show , I'm interviewing CEOs . He goes . Well , who are you interviewing ? I said , well , david Nealman , right there , I'm going to be emailing , I'm going to be interviewing him . So he said , oh , okay , sign me up . So now I had like two CEOs . Then I then I said , well , where do I , where do I shop ? Oh , I like Stu Leonard's . That's a great store . So so I call up the CEO of Stu Leonard's . I'm starting this show .
Speaker 2Well , I got you know the founder of Jet Blue , the CEO of Deloitte , and then every week I would just put out a little thing of who I was reaching out to , and I and and I'd listen . And this one guy said to me I said , well , what companies like ? So I love the Ritz Carlton , it's the best . So I call up the CEO of the Ritz Carlton , simon , and I said , you know Simon Cooper , I'm doing the CEO show and he goes . Well , who's on it ? And then , and then I mentioned I was like , oh , okay , and then I one day , you know , I look at my wife's stuff and she is clinic . I said , well , clinic , that's a good company , she goes . Yeah , it's part of a stay , lords . So I called William Lauder . All of a sudden , within about two months , I had a slew of people , and then I'm more than just four listeners .
Speaker 1So , robert , it sounds to me like one of the things that you tapped into was that these CEOs wanted to know a , are you legit ? And the fact that you had created other meetings with other CEOs gave them the confidence that this is a legitimate you know . You're really for real . That seems to me that that was kind of the ignition for this .
Speaker 2Absolutely . Ceos want to put you in a box , and they want to . They want to know , like third party , if you know someone and if they like that person . So third party endorsements are essential .
Speaker 1So so maybe one of the first things we've picked up from this interview is that when you're trying to get into C CEOs you know who do you know that might know that CEO and building some associations can really help you to kind of get in the door Absolutely . So let's kind of dig in a little bit deeper into what you know about CEOs . I mean , you have interviewed , you know in your organization , over a thousand of them . Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you've learned about how CEOs think and what makes them different maybe from other decision makers that are kind of maybe lower down in the organization ? What makes CEOs tick in terms of how they think ?
Speaker 2Well , number one a CEO . I'm going to reel off three or four quick
Influencing and Engaging With CEOs
Speaker 2ones . A CEO , they don't have to prove they have no hidden agendas . Like the CFO , they may want to one day become the CEO . Everyone has some agenda . They want to . The CEO and the chair of the board just want to make the company successful . This is in larger companies , so that's the first thing . So then they may look calm on the outside , but on the inside they are driving heavily . You know like some are like a rocking chair . They're moving back and forth and back and forth and going nowhere . Ceos are the exact opposite . They may be very , show this demeanor , but they're always thinking .
Speaker 2And a CEO's job can be defined in just six words to get from here to there . That's it . So what they have to do is define what the vision is . Then they have to clarify and codify what the current reality is , and in between there is the gap . And that's their job . They have to do stuff . Just imagine like if you were the board . You know Steve Jobs dies . All of a sudden you're Tim Cook . You're like well , what is it ? His job is to do better . So a CEO has to always do better . And here's one other way to sum up the CEO's job . Ceos always see themselves as the number one salesperson . Their job is ensuring enduring , profitable revenue and that's why CEOs are open , because they know that they have to advance the company they're not interested in , they hate silos . They're not interested in . This is what someone does . That's why they're completely different than anyone else in the C-suite .
Speaker 1You know you mentioned something that is really interesting , which is you know they need to get from here to there . So help me understand a little bit in terms of when you're trying to influence the CEO . Is that where you need to go ? Talk about how I can help you to get to where you want to go ? Do you need to kind of keep it at a high level , or do you need to come in with a lot of detail and a lot of sort of the logistics , or what's the best way to communicate and really connect with them from that perspective ?
Speaker 2It's totally at the high level . I made one of the most embarrassing mistakes in my life . I did this major research paper and I had been training . This is I had been telling people here's how you speak , and it was . Harvard Business Review ended up publishing it and I used to tell CEOs know every detail , talk every detail , and after the article , you know what the name of the article in HBR was Hold the details . And it was so right , and this was 10 years before I even interviewed any CEOs . You do not talk details , you're going to lose them immediately . Ceos love to hear stories .
Speaker 1Wow , so that's an interesting perspective . What is it , do you think is essential to the story that you need to really emphasize or be focused on to capture attention and have more influence with CEOs ? What is the story we need to be thinking about when we're meeting with CEOs ?
Speaker 2The story has to be truth , it has to be how this will add value and create that gap , like you said , michael , of getting from here to there . There's a formula I use that I developed in telling stories . I call it CAR , challenge , action , result . So usually if I'll tell them , I'll say well , here is a challenge that occurred , and then here is the action taken and here is the result . And yet , before and after numbers , it's almost like you have this book I haven't finished it because I just started it the other day but how to influence Fantastic ? Already I got a huge idea , which is that you would say something like well , here is something . I've spoken with a lot of CEOs , or I've spoken to a lot of people . Here's what they're telling me and you pinpoint that and what you do is you create curiosity . Then that engages them . So if you create the curiosity and the story , that will help to sell them .
Speaker 1Yeah , I've really found that storytelling is kind of maybe the most important influence art there is , and when you get good at storytelling you get people to lean in , they drop their guard , they drop their resistance . Once you get them kind of involved in your story , it's so much easier to establish a human connection . Something I've noticed and I'd love to get your take on this , something I've noticed in working with salespeople over the years is I find a lot of times when you start selling up in the organization , you start moving beyond kind of the lower level decision makers . You start moving up towards the C-suite and then into the C-suite . A lot of salespeople become more formal . They become more stiff and formal .
Speaker 2That's a mistake , I agree A really beautiful mistake .
Speaker 1What I have found and this is what I want to get your reaction to is when the CEO . I had an experience in my mid-20s where I met the CEO of American Express and it was a really I was in way over my head .
Speaker 2There's just no way to James Robinson at the time , James .
Speaker 1Robinson , the third , yeah , and I was in way over my head and I'll never forget the experience because I walked into his office . It was absolutely gorgeous . It was just him and me talking . I was kind of formal , I was nervous he could tell and I'll tell you , he talked to me with that Southern Drawley . He was so friendly and so natural and I said God , this is a real human being here . And he just said you know what ? You can just relax , you can just have a conversation . And I learned something that you've got to drop the formality because everybody's always trying to pitch them and convince them . But if you just be kind of a real person , they like that . What's your take ? Because you talk to them all the time .
Speaker 2Oh , you nailed it . The first thing is CEOs hate being sold , but they love to buy . That's because they have to always come with new ideas to advance the companies . Ceos see a sale coming miles away . Look , even me , a guy like me . I'm in a party and I see like someone's edging up to me and I could tell OK , there's a CEO I know They've listened to , they've seen the website , they want an introduction . I could see it . How do you think a CEO feels every moment they're being sold to ? So what they value more than anything is authenticity . That's why that third party connection is important , Because all of a sudden , if you get well , this person who I know really well likes you , you're going to get a buy to move ahead .
Speaker 1Wow , that is . I think that's really key . So authenticity and really being yourself and being honest and being really open with them . You know , I think that one of the things I've learned about top performers is , in most cases , they tend to prepare better . They tend to get ready for meetings better . They tend to kind of show up in a more prepared mode . What advice would you give to salespeople ? If you're going into a C-suite conversation , you know what's the best way to prepare so that you can really increase your odds of success . What have you learned about that ?
Speaker 2OK , there's a lot of stuff . The first thing is do your homework . So , for starts , let's say , if you were meeting with American Express , the first thing you would do is look at what the stock is doing today , because if the stock is down 5% , well they've lost a lot of money today Personal money , even if it's restricted stock . And if the stock is up , they're in a good mood and they know at every moment where the stock is . So that's the first thing . The second thing when I say do your homework , you see the books behind me . When I'm sent , when I'm going to interview someone , if they've written a book , I've read every word of that book , I've outlined what their key themes are , and I do it the same way . John Mackey , the CEO of Whole Foods first time we met he was the founder . He says look , robert , we take notes . The same way , take in the books . We don't do Kindles , we yellow highlight , we overdo pages , we cross things . You learn everything and you want to learn about the themes from that person . Can I tell you , I'm embarrassed to say , but all the time I'm meeting a CEO and now that I've interviewed so many , a lot of times , I'm interviewing someone for a second time . The first absolute thing . Last week I was interviewing a CEO , ron Shake . He's the founder of Panera Bread . You know , the first thing I did ? I went back on my website and I typed in Ron Shake and I listened to his interview with me .
Speaker 2The first time , I'm looking for what their themes are , what words are important , what stories , what their cadences are , because I want a conversation . Like you said , the worst thing is going in stiff , because how comfortable do you feel when someone comes to you and they're all stiff ? If you get a college student , they're looking for a job . Do you want them ? Well , mr St Lawrence , what do you ? You want them to be natural , say yeah , you know , this is what I really want , and here's what I'm good at , here's where I'm not good . Show their vulnerability , here's what I want to do with my life . You want that realness , don't you ?
Speaker 1Yeah , you know , I think that's such an important part . It comes from being confident , being prepared , knowing as much as you can about them , knowing how the company's performing their short-term or long-term stock projections . Those are really really good piece of advice . As you've observed in your career people interacting with C-suite executives and such , if you could outline for us you know what are some obvious mistakes that people make when interacting with and trying to influence CEOs that salespeople really should be aware of and try to avoid or try to get rid of completely . What are some obvious mistakes that people make when interacting with CEOs , especially when they're trying to influence them ?
Speaker 2They're not . They're not respectful . So they may see the executive assistant and they're not nice and kind to them . You have to treat every single person the same .
Cold Calling Techniques for Sales Success
Speaker 2Second thing is you have to be real . I mean a mistake is to be really arrogant and to do monologues the best . And here's the biggest mistake . I mean , even when someone come to me and I have a smaller company compared to the CEOs I'm interviewing , who I generally they're always over a billion dollars If someone comes to me and they haven't gone to my website and they don't know what I'm doing , they don't know my history , they don't know what's important to me , I immediately just say like I'm not going to even think of hiring them at all .
Speaker 2Imagine a big CEO if they don't know about what the company does . You have to know them personally . You should be reading several of their articles . I also go another thing because I've written for Forbes for years over 350 articles I will also I forget who I've written about . Now , all these years later , I'll Google their name Forbes , reese and I'll say , oh , I wrote an article . Then I'll read that article as well . Everything you could read . Get quotes , get themes , remember , get from here to there . You want to know their vision and you want to know their current reality . You want their characteristics , their personal characteristics .
Speaker 1And so yeah .
Speaker 1So it seems like one of the most important themes you're tapping into is really trying to get a good feel for who is this person , what do they value , what do they care about , how do they talk , what are the words or phrases they value , and really kind of syncing up with that to demonstrate that you've not only done your homework but you've kind of earned the right to have this conversation .
Speaker 1Absolutely , you mentioned something that really caught my attention . I've noticed over the last I don't know 10 , 15 years that sales people are typically always looking for easier ways to get appointments , whether they can send out email blitzes or social media campaigns or whatever . But the thing you mentioned is that you really built your business by cold calling , and in a previous conversation you said we still do that . We still cold call and just pick up the phone and dial and call into C-suite offices . Tell me a little bit about how do you make cold calling successful , because I have to tell you , a lot of sales people are so resistant to it and are convinced it can't work . Give me the other side of that story .
Speaker 2Nothing's more important than cold calling . If you know how to set up meetings , you could be successful in any job , so I love when I cold call . When you cold call , you're like Michael Jordan You're going to the basket , you're driving , and then you could make something happen pass , shoot , whatever you know . If you didn't do that cold call , zero would have happened . So what a joy it is to cold call . Nothing is really more fun than cold calling . Now I don't get to do as much of it because I have to run a company as well , but we have people who absolutely love cold calling and they're fabulous at it .
Speaker 1So when you say somebody's fabulous at it , what are they doing ? Because you don't have much time on a cold call , you've got to hit your beat right away . You've got 60 seconds , 90 seconds . You've got to say something where the person's going to say you know what ? There's something about this person . I'm going to give them a few more minutes or I'm going to put a meeting on my calendar . What do you have to do very quickly in order to have success at cold calling ?
Speaker 2Well , it's a little different now , because a lot of the cold calling starts with an email . I just take it to say . But I mean , a great thing is like LinkedIn , because , if you know , remember , there's a sales process with four parts in it , but the first part is building the trust and everything . If they know a third party , you know . So that's the brilliance of LinkedIn . I remember when I interviewed Reid Hoffman , the founder , and he told me we knew that there's nothing more valuable that someone says , oh , you know so , and so Now what you have to do is here's a caveat , mike , they may not like so-and-so , so you have to say , like , oh , what do you think of them ?
Speaker 2And then it's to say , oh , I really like them . Like , yeah , here's something I learned from them . But if you're going to talk with the CEO , you've got to hit them over the head with what you want . You have to start it up and say I'm calling because I want to talk about X . I see an area that your company can grow . So what you do is you say can I have 60 seconds ? And once you do , then you do exactly what you say in your book how to Influence , which is you say well , here is a challenge . I speak with CEOs or I work with salespeople all the time . Here is what they're telling me , that they are trying to do this . Is that something that's important to you ? And if so , they're going to say , yes , now you're in the next phase of the sale , or just something , and it's not a sale . Like I said with CEOs , they hate to be sold , but they love to buy . It's a conversation , and a genuine , and that's why , if you're stiff , you're going to be terrible .
Speaker 1So after you get that initial , you've said something that sparks some interest . How quickly do you get them talking ? Do you immediately get into a question or do you start continue pitching ?
Speaker 2No , you don't , that's the biggest mistake ever . The sales process is four parts . One is trust . Second is uncover needs . Third is solution . Fourth is collaboration . That's the sales process of how to sell to a CEO or how to allow CEOs to buy . If you jump into solution , you're really offensive , unless you just say can I throw an idea , but let me know if it's off target . You have to start uncovering and you have to have really good questions , insightful questions that force people to think . Now here's what I also want to say you need those third party endorsements , just like LinkedIn taught to get those . So it's very important that you have certain credentials that will put you at a level where they're going to trust you and open up for part two , which is uncover needs .
Speaker 1So , after you have sparked some interest , your primary focus at that point is to get that CEO talking with a really effective , relevant , resonant question and get into listening and learning mode .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and do exactly what you're doing in this interview . You sum up a little , so what I'm hearing is X , yeah .
Speaker 1I find that that probably is one of the most common mistakes that people make . When cold calling and even on sales calls , they feel this pressure that they have to explain who they are , what they're doing . A long credibility buildup . What my idea is . Do you want to hear more ? Let me tell you about what I'm doing . Is that something you might be interested in , when , in reality , what you really need to do is drop back and say , yes , I've got some interesting ideas and I'd like to share them with you , but I think I need to understand your situation a little bit better first and give a reason for them to share .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and if they don't trust you , they won't want . And if you've spoken so much , they're not going to want anything . And you don't sell CEO in the first sale . Usually the most important thing is what I call continuity , which means a reason for second conversation .
Speaker 1You know , robert , I'd like to ask you one more question here , which is that you know , if you were , for instance , on a panel and there were , you know , 500 young , hungry , motivated salespeople in the audience and it was near the end of the panel and somebody asked you this question , they say , listen , if you could give me , based on all your experience of selling into the C-suite , if you could give me one piece of advice early in my career of how I can be more successful at getting meetings , being more successful in those meetings , follow up and everything , if you could give me one piece of advice that really is going to impact my ability to be more successful in the C-suite , what would be that piece of advice to a young salesperson getting started ?
Speaker 2Know who you are and do not accept failure . You have to look at failure like it's just temporary . Oh , I got a roadblock and , frankly , obstacles create the greatest treasures hidden beneath them . So when you get like objections , that's gold . Most people think , oh , that's terrible , that's wonderful because that moves you closer to truth and all you want to have is a truthful conversation and you want to really listen and ask some smart questions and then be able to sum it up you know , robert , I think this has been one of the most interesting conversations I've had .
Speaker 1I started off this entire conversation by sharing that I think you might be the most I don't know informed and certainly experienced person in interacting with CEOs , and that really came out in this conversation . I'd like to kind of just close by giving you an opportunity to tell our listeners what's the best way for them to access your content , the wealth of information you're created . If they want to know more about what you're doing , what would you suggest that they do so they can tap into more of what you've created ?
Speaker 2Well , first , I don't know what I've created , but here's the easiest way to do , because there's so many ways to learn . You got to be curious . That's number one . Read voraciously any opportunity you have , speak with people , ask questions , listen , follow up , keep track . The most important thing for a great salesperson is pipeline management knowing who's there . But if you want to listen to any of the interviews I've done , you could obviously Google Robert Rees for Absorb . Then I also write for Fortune CNBC , but the website is ceoshowcom . You just go there and you could listen to a zillion not a zillion , but over a thousand CEO interviews . Well , robert , it's something I do all the time .
Speaker 1Wow , robert , I want to thank you for really being a fantastic guest , sharing a wealth of information , and I urge anybody that's heard this interview to tap into the articles that Robert has written . Go to his website , listen to the interviews . They're very inspiring . He's tapping into and talking to and really getting ideas from , the actually creme de la creme , the top of the top of the America's corporation . So , thank you , robert . Appreciate you giving us some time and sharing your thoughts with us here today .
Speaker 2Michael , great being on your show and , yes , terrific question . So this is a lot of fun for me .
Speaker 1A special thank you to Robert Rees , ceo and founder of the CEO Forum Group . Hopefully you picked up some ideas on how to create more selling opportunities and have more impact with the CEOs you meet with At Sales Gym . We're always looking for sales executives and professionals that have interesting insights into influence With you or anyone you know would like to talk to us about appearing on our podcast . Contact Kumi Fisher at Sales Gym . Her email is kumi-k-u-m-i at salesgymcom . Once again , thanks for listening and keep an eye out for upcoming Sales Gym podcasts that can inspire and inform you on how to develop your selling and influence potential , and from all of us here at Sales Gym . Thanks for listening .