SalesGym Interview Series
The SalesGym Interview Series brings you fresh thinking from Sales Leaders that can help you lead, manage and train a higher performing sales team. You’ll gain insights into what top performing sales professionals are doing that are giving them their competitive advantage.
SalesGym Interview Series
Mastering Sales Dynamics in the Digital Age
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Join us as we explore the future of sales with an intriguing look at technology's role in amplifying human potential, as we chat with Matt McArdle who is a Director of Sales Support and Inbound Operations at Henry Schein. This episode peels back the layers of sales operations, revealing how AI tools customized to individual selling styles can revolutionize customer interactions and strategic planning. For sales professionals, adapting to these advancements isn't just beneficial—it's crucial for staying ahead in a competitive landscape, and Matt brings his vision and expertise to the table to share some useful insights for both sellers and leaders alike in this thought provoking episode.
Sales Technology and Human Behavior Future
Speaker 1Welcome to the Sales Gym podcast , where we talk about sales training and human behavior with an eye on giving our listeners a leg up on the competition . Today , we're going to be exploring the future of sales and the impact rapidly evolving technology will have on sales teams in the near future , along with how to manage those changes effectively . Our guest on this episode is Matt McCartle , and he is going to be giving us some clarity on what that future may look like . Matt is the director of sales support and inbound operations at Henry Shine , as currently running a team of over 60 salespeople and 60 people involved in sales operations , who together are supporting the generation of more than $7 billion in revenue . What caught my eye about Matt was his focus on the concepts of technology and AI integrating with the human elements of selling and , without revealing too much . His vision of how both can be used to enable salespeople was something I knew needed to be shared with all of you . So , without further ado , welcome Matt . We're happy to have you .
Speaker 2Thanks , Dean . Really appreciate you having me out excited to talk about the future of sales and the tools that could be created with incoming technology that's rapidly coming upon us .
Speaker 1Well , that's really going to be the meat and potatoes , what we talked about today . But before we get into that , I'd love to give our audience a little bit of background of who you are and just kind of how you got to where you are . So can you share with us your journey from the early career to now being the director at Henry Shine ? What does that look like ?
Speaker 2Yeah , sure . So I started my career as a sales support person working in the commercial print and packaging industry for a large manufacturer at the time . Then eventually I grew into a sales position that was an outside sales consultant selling a large , technologically advanced solution , a large printing process , and then moved into a leadership role with P&L responsibility for both sales and operations . Our service business for the western third of the United States then had a great opportunity to join my current company , henry Shine . Started as an outside sales manager , leading a team of about 20 plus salespeople responsible for about $100 million in revenue , and then had an interesting opportunity to create a new sales support organization at Henry Shine and have spent the last few years doing so , starting with 17 , growing the total responsibility to over 120 during that time and , as you alluded to in the beginning of the podcast , it's a combination of both salespeople inside salespeople and sales operations specialists .
Speaker 1You know , throughout that experience , you've probably ran into a lot of really interesting issues , and something that we talked about whenever we had a discussion earlier in the week was that they're really focused on problem solving and trying to innovate and find solutions . How has that played a role throughout your growth in your career and kind of getting you from where you were in the initial stages just getting into sales to where you are now ?
Speaker 2Yeah , sure . So curiosity comes to mind first , and I think I've just been naturally curious , so always focused on existing goals for my current role and a big believer that you have to perform your existing responsibilities to the best of your ability and be successful there . But then I've always tried to find creative ways to solve problems that the company may not be integrating quite yet , and that seems to have always centered around technology . So , whether that was a utilization of CRMs like Salesforce and growing that , those capabilities for myself and sharing the results that came from that , to using readily available tools through different AI solutions or just things that can make life a little bit easier , those are things that I've tried to bring to myself as an individual contributor , but then the teams that I'm leading . So we take traditional selling tactics , integrate technology and merge the two to try and do them just to get better results , and that's been a big catalyst to getting to where I am today .
Speaker 1Well , I think that's going to take us to the heart of what we came here to discuss today , and one of the first questions I have is how do you envision the future of sales operations , especially with the integration of AI and other forms of technology ? How do you envisioning that big picture ?
Speaker 2You know , and the first thing that I think of is it's not one-sized fits all in terms of there's going to be one solution that works for everyone . Everything is an incredibly difficult job and different people are successful for different reasons . They have their own tactics and strategies to sell in . So I think it's important to note that there's nothing that's going to come out of the box that anyone's going to be able to say this will make all salespeople successful . It's going to come down to the individual salesperson , their willingness to embrace the technology and how it can complement their style . But it's not going to be this the saving grace , right ? It's just going to make everyone amazing , and it will be crucial that salespeople invest their time into learning the technology and integrate it into their specific needs and styles for it to be successful . So when I envisioned for me in my selling style , I always , you know , as I carried a bag when I've led teams I found that it could be really difficult to juggle all of the things that a salesperson has to handle on a day-to-day basis , from products to customers for mapping your route and continuous communication , putting out fires , you name it .
Speaker 2If you're a salesperson listening to this , you probably can think of 10 things in law that you do on a daily basis . So how do we keep it straight , how do we have intelligent conversations with our customers that are directly applicable to them , especially when we give them talking to dozens , if not hundreds , of customers over a small period of time ? And that's where I start to lean into technology and how it can help us discern the right path for us to take as salespeople , both during conversations , even down to physically , as we're routing our calls . If you work in an outside territory , how can you effectively get to your customers using technology , versus if you're an inside salesperson and you're just making calls , how can you use the tool to effectively plan your day ? So how do you guide those conversations and what do you talk about ? How can you intake what customers are telling you to best recommend solutions for them while not overwhelming them and wordbombing and confusing ? So tech can really help with that .
Speaker 1Well , tech is a helpful tool , but you had mentioned obviously these are going to be . It's really dependent on how actually humans interact with that technology and how much they embrace it . Now I think there may be a specific role or a type of role that might be out there . How would things like AI and other elements actually impact the human part of selling and the human behavior element of that ? How would it actually enable them Much like maybe using a calculator and Excel sheet would help an account .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think even the integration of email comes to mind too , and in a time when it didn't exist . No relationships are ever going to go away . The need for human beings selling to human beings is never going to go away , but tools are going to continue to be implemented , just like email came into play or telephones came into play at a time when they didn't before . So for me , I envision a tool and we look at I know GPT , chat . Gpt technology is huge right now . There's technology that exists that can intake voice , translated into text , then be filtered into databases to make recommendations . If you've taken a look at chat GPT , you've probably typed something in and gotten some pretty intelligent responses . It's remarkable stuff . So there's no reason that that type of technology can't listen to live conversations , whether you're an inside or an outside salesperson , and start to make recommendations on where to take the conversation next based on those inputs .
Speaker 2Now , this isn't replacing a human being and telling you what to do . Really , what it should be doing is giving you options , because you're still going to need your intuition based on how you're feeling the conversation is going as the salesperson , but the technology can now start to make you know . Maybe you want to talk about one of these three subjects next . So if you're a salesperson , I'll speak from a distributor perspective . You're probably selling products and services , so you can start to go down a talk track of this specific portfolio is applicable to this customer and these because you won't have time to dig through everything that your customer does , so stay focused here . Same thing for a business service . If you're consultative and you're trying to add additional business value , you might want to stay there . If the customer is telling you that they're having profitability issues , for example , maybe you want to differentiate yourself as a salesperson because you could help them with their overall profitability . Tools can really help you get there .
Speaker 1You know , one of the big things that we focus on here at the sales gym is being able to stay curious and present with the person you're talking with , and this feels like having a tool like that will enable you to stay a little bit more focused on the conversation you're actually having , rather than trying to think through constantly in your mind all right , based on what I'm hearing them say , here's maybe some ideas I have for them and when you're doing that you're going through that thought process . Oftentimes we kind of pull away from the conversation we're actually involved in and that creates a disconnected experience between you and the client . So how do you think this is going to impact maybe the human behavior element of you know sales representative on the call with the client , getting these kind of options laid out for them and not having to actively think through ? You know a thousand different products that might be applicable . Well , how do you think that's going to actually impact that conversation ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean .
Speaker 2I completely agree with you that staying present can be really difficult , especially if you're trying to listen , think through how you want to apply the company or your bags properties to that customer .
Speaker 2It can be hard to pay attention , take down notes , continue to listen to the customer and make a recommendation . The technology can do it for you so that way you can stay pressed in and really listen to the customer without having to worry about taking down notes , listening to a couple sentences . The person continues to talk to you and now , all of a sudden , you've lost them and they're starting to lose you a little bit . Staying present and , like we talked about earlier , that human element , it's going to be crucial in building relationships and creating long term customers because they trust you and that happens over time . So , as you have continuous hits or interactions with these customers and you're building that relationship , yes , understanding their business and them , understanding your portfolio , is going to be important , but , in my opinion , understanding each other as people is what's going to solidify that relationship , and being able to stay present with the aid of technology is going to make you much more successful as a salesperson .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's a really good insight there , matt , and I guess , just leaning into that a little bit more , let's look at this from the customer side . So we kind of understand how AI is going to be helpful in letting us be able to make better recommendations , letting us stay present with the actual client . But what's the client going to be getting out of that ? How is this going to impact , maybe , the results of their business or their buying criteria ? What is it going to do to benefit the customer specifically having AI integrated in this kind of a way ?
Speaker 2Yeah , sure . So I think , both efficiencies in making recommendations . One depending on the industry , there can be a bit of a turnaround time for an overall solution recommendation . So if you're doing an R&P , for example , you're doing a large portfolio or you're a larger customer , there could be weeks , sometimes even months , for a company to come back and make a recommendation on . Here's the pricing that we can offer you . Here's what we suggest .
Speaker 2As you start to integrate , you can even start to live . Take a look at general recommendations . It won't be the final product right , because you still need to , as a salesperson with a sales operations team , potentially go back and make specific tweaks , but customers in real time can start to get an idea immediately how the salesperson can aid their business . So it speeds up the translation of that value and maybe builds trust a little bit faster . And it also even making recommendations based on .
Speaker 2Different companies that I've worked for in the past have analytics tools , for example , that can get down to geo locations and make recommendations on based on this geography . As you and I had talked about earlier , dean geographies do matter , especially in various different business or industries , and being able to analyze relevant geo locations , that thing can be generally applicable to that business that you're selling to or a consumer that you're selling to . They can go ahead and compete . If you're in a B2B environment selling situation , things like that are just going to aid in building trust and the customers are going to be able to see results a lot faster and also make decisions quickly around . Is it worth my time to continue to engage with the salesperson ? If we can show our value faster as a salesperson , I think you're going to get more follow up opportunities .
Speaker 1I think I'm going to dig a little bit deeper on that topic . I'd be kind of curious what your thoughts are on . Is AI going to be applicable in things like services and strategies , so just beyond the , maybe the product selection ? A lot of companies offer services to clients as well as maybe offering some almost kind of consulting style advice . How do you think AI is going to be integrating in those categories , or do you think it will be integrated ?
Speaker 2I think it will be integrated , but it's really difficult for me to sit here and say yes or it's applicable to everything . I think it's use case to use case , and it's also important to know that there's a large amount of technology support needed as you're building out use cases , whether it's AI , robotic process automation or other technologies that are needed to be successful in today's environment
Technology Vendor Selection and Managing Change
Speaker 2. You have to be really careful , especially as you're selecting the technological vendor or technology vendor or partner that you may be purchasing a technology solution from . Just like , if you're a salesperson , you're tailoring your businesses or your company's portfolio to the customer . You want to make sure that you're tailoring the technology you're picking to your business . Most things are possible , but they're definitely not free and there's a large time and money factor that comes into that . So I'll go back to the chat GPT example , if you were to .
Speaker 2I was joking around with a colleague earlier and wondering how many of our direct reports are going to be using chat GPT for their performance or news . It's December . We're heading into that time . I would be surprised if we didn't get most of that at this point because it's so prevalent . But really it's amazing the things that you can do for free .
Speaker 2As you get more specific , you're going to want to integrate the technology into your existing portfolio , and it'll only be as good as the data that you have at your organization .
Speaker 2So one making sure that your side of the house is clean , you're offering accurate data , maybe your portfolio or services that might need to clean up or an enhancement before you can even get into the technology . That'll be a time at a cost , so , and vendors may will really need to understand where you are current state before they can even recommend going forward with a piece of technology . The other hard thing is that it's consistently evolving , so you may take a six to 12 month sales cycle to bring in a piece of technology and over those 12 months that technology could have gotten better . So important also that you are , from a procurement standpoint , that you have a really strong team that's staying ahead of that , taking a look at new models even while they're exploring existing models . I know that was a little long winded , but the short answer would be yes , it's going to be applicable for services , products , you name it , but how we go about integrating it will be key for success .
Speaker 1I think that was actually really useful and let's go ahead and talk about that a little bit more deeply . Right ? So if an organization is looking to bring in AI or some kind of other assistive technology to bring on board with all their sales teams , what are some really deep considerations , beyond the ones you've covered , that they need to be thinking about to get it right ? There's a lot of elements that we can touch on whenever it comes to organizational change , and we'll get into the human element but whenever you just think , as you're maybe selecting vendors and you're going through that process , what do some leaders need to keep in mind to make sure that , when they are making that selection , it's beneficial ?
Speaker 2Yeah . So first thing that comes to mind for me is finance , roi and how the products are actually paid for and how you can guarantee results , and that comes in a negotiation with the vendors . So a lot of amazing vendors out there that can do a lot of similar tasks very , very well , and you're going to get bombarded with information . So I think , from selling it internally and getting it approved by finance , you need to be able to show an ROI in addition to the proficiency of the technology itself . So we start with finance . There are a couple interesting models that I've come across . There's one that you , where you can pay up front , there's always going to be some sort of managed services in the beginning , in addition to the technology itself . A lot of vendors sell on the software as a service model or a subscription model . Some you could do per interaction and me personally . I guess you can never guarantee profitability , right . But to give us the best chance of being able to show a true ROI , I'm leaning towards right now models that take a percentage of the statements that a solution may be able to offer . So meaning that a calculation is done . Let's say you're looking at an improvement of a sales operations process and the company you're selling to , or you're potentially buying from claims that they could improve the turnaround time by 50% . You equate the dollars that you're spending on human capital or salaries and cut it in half and this company you're buying for us says we promise you that we can cut that dollar in half and that's how we're justifying this dollar to sell you this piece of technology . For me , contractually , I'd want to negotiate something that pays them not a guaranteed rate but a percentage of the savings or , if possible , paying a percentage of the interaction , all encompassing of the managed services that come with that . You know , one of those things and mistakes that I made early on was underestimating the cost of support for technology . It's not just a solution itself . You need to have a team that can consistently optimize that technology that you bring in ours and that is not cheap . So make sure that we need to make sure that we're factoring that into our ROI and that we fully understand that cost .
Speaker 2If anyone listening has implemented a Salesforce , you probably have a Salesforce support team . You've been through sprints and developments and point allocations and there's probably teams of people that make sure that your Salesforce platform is running effectively and there's continuous optimization efforts . You're probably meeting with different business units and a lot of time that goes into making that platform successful , so making sure that we understand that the total support need and sometimes organizations underestimate that . So if you can negotiate with the vendor in all in price , maybe you even want to outsource your managed services , which is an option . You can , of course , bring that in house , depending on the company you're with . These are things you just wanted to holistically look at , because when you're working with your CFO or whatnot , you're going to want to make sure that , as the business leader wanting to bring in that technology , that you can really deliver on the total savings .
Speaker 1So that was a really good perspective on what it looks like to make these decisions and determine what vendors you should work with , some considerations of why you might want to work with those vendors and how to make sure it's beneficial for their organization .
Speaker 1But whenever you actually implement these changes , there's human beings involved . People get scared of new technology . They resist new technology because they're used to doing things one way or another . Sometimes there's fears that if they don't know how to use the technology , it could impact their job negatively . There's a lot of concerns around new technology in general , and I'm sure those concerns are going to keep increasing as technology like AI comes in and gives more complex solutions and really helps them in ways that they hadn't been utilizing before . So I guess , with that in mind , how do you go about managing those concerns , or what are some things we need to be thinking about whenever it comes to messaging this , both internally and externally , to both our employees , the people who are going to be using this technology , as well as the clients ? What are some things that we should be considering and thinking about ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's a great point in question . This is where I think , as leaders , we have to flex our EQ a bit , our emotional intelligence , and remember that we lead people and people have emotions . They have a right to those emotions and for long-term organizational success , in my opinion , it's dependent on people , and we can bring in the best technology in the world , but if it's not embraced by our team , it's going to fail . So we have to bring those people on board . In my experience as a leader that's brought in new technology , it's been .
Speaker 2I focus on those that are early adopters and those that really believe in it , Because their word is going to be much more powerful than mine . I think sometimes , as leaders , we can come across as you know , the corporate people , the corporate men and women that are saying this because we quote unquote have to . Even if that's not the case it certainly wasn't for me my message never seemed to resonate as well as a team member's message that's actually using it . So once I identify those early adopters , I invest my time specifically in them , understanding what they like about it , what they don't like about it and what it is that's making them want to embrace it , and then showcasing the results that the early adopters had to make their roles easier and better . From there , I have them showcase those results to their peers .
Speaker 2So no longer is coming from me . It's now coming from peers that are actually using the technology and having a positive benefit . But other than that , I think it was time . Patience , empathy and just caring about people , caring about their feelings , letting them talk and making sure that they feel heard and not just , you know , doing an obligatory one on one as a leader , because you have to do it . It's truly listening , taking their feedback and maybe even being willing to delay a little bit because of the people . I know that we have financial obligations to the organization , that we have to me , but I can't stress enough that without buying from the team , it won't be successful . So doing whatever it takes to make your people feel comfortable is important .
Speaker 1So SEA was on your team right , and we had this perfect implementation . We found the perfect vendor , you're getting ready to do the rollout and obviously we got to get these internal users who actually know how to use this on board in a later date . But already , please check out our marketing website . How do you initially message that to the team ? Whenever you're saying we have this new technology coming in , sometimes people may feel threatened by that technology , feel like maybe that's gonna replace their job . What's the message you actually give them whenever you stand up and deliver and say this is what's coming on board . This is why it's useful . This is why it's gonna be helpful . What would that actually sound like if I was hearing that from you and I was on your team ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so hopefully the official message would never be a surprise , meaning that before we even start implementing anything , I communicate early and often , but maybe some things that we're thinking about and it usually starts with has anyone used , before we even talk about , what's coming into the company ? Has anyone used GPT technology before ? What did you think about it ? Ai is in the news a lot . What are you thinking about it ? And I start to gather their thoughts , making sure that I'm taking notes on how they feel about it and some positives and really focus on those . That starts to talk positively about their engagement with some of the technology that's in the news all the time . Now , From there the conversation builds naturally and we even talk about using where we're communicating with customers . Does anyone use chat GPT when they're writing a message to a customer ? Most are already .
Speaker 2So there's this comfortability and we start to build camaraderie around tools that we haven't even officially brought in yet to build the bridge to technology , naturally , without any sort of corporate involvement whatsoever , and it starts to become a bit more positive .
Managing Large Teams and Technical Training
Speaker 2Then , as time goes on and corporately we solidify technology roadmaps and we know things are coming . Then we start to highlight what would you think about us bringing in some of this . We haven't done it yet and this isn't we're not patronizing anyone .
Speaker 2We're truly thinking about it and for me , from a leadership perspective , I always want the feedback of my team before I go ahead and implement something , so that they deal part of the process , because they are part of the process , and from there we start to kind of figure out where are things applicable . Use cases come out of it . That helps me from the technology evaluation standpoint . But then when the time comes to actually launch something we've already probably talked about it a dozen times , the team members have given their input on it , some of them are already using some of it . Now it kind of just becomes this oh , we're just gonna really do this now . That's had the most success for me .
Speaker 1You know , I feel like you touched on a lot of really interesting things just around how you communicate and work with your teams . Generally , being able to work with a large team is a much different experience than working , kind of , as a solo producer or even working with a small sales team of half a dozen , so let's go and talk a little bit about that . So , with that in mind , with your experience leading large teams like this , what are some really core , effective strategies whenever it comes to being able to manage a team and get the most out of them ? You touched on pre-messaging , maybe changes that are coming . What else do you think is extremely important whenever a leader is managing a large team , to make sure they're getting the most out of them and they're actually seeing great morale and people actually wanting to produce and wanting to get involved in new projects or push initiatives .
Speaker 2Yeah , for me it's been a people first approach . And don't get me wrong , I get businesses are run on P&Ls and profitability numbers , but people are not numbers and they can drive profitability , but it's almost this mix of EQ and IQ to drive results . But the engine is really driven based on , I'm gonna say I guess the word emotion a lot today , but it's emotion and feeling comfortable . If that comes , a lot of the things I tend to fall into place and what I mean is that as a leader , if your team is comfortable with you and they trust you as you start to implement new tools and strategies , you wanna perform some change management , you wanna try something new with a new sales campaign , you wanna do some new sales training or bring in maybe even other outside sales training or things that aren't just technology related . If that trust is there , you're gonna get buying a lot faster and potentially drive results a lot faster . So I really spend time and this has taken me a couple of years into my leadership career because I remember starting out and for me especially , coming out of school , it was a lot of book smarts and the textbooks that I read . And how , statistically , how do you manipulate margin and drive GP and do all these things , but knowing how a business functions on paper versus how to actually get the results , or two very different things and first few years I think I had to learn that the hard way about . Just because you can put together an amazing presentation , your business acumen is very high , that doesn't mean that people will listen to you and do it . But if you take the time to get to know them and who they are as people , then that opens the door to them being willing to listen to those statistics and start to buy into strategies that can grow profitability .
Speaker 2If you're a sales leader that your salespeople are probably compensation driven compensation drives behavior so you're probably going to drive what's in it for them . How are they gonna make more money ? Sales operations is a bit different . These are folks that are not as compensation driven . They still care about dollars , but they're not salespeople that perform operational tasks . They think differently . So even being able to showcase , maybe how something improves the operation from a turnaround or quality perspective , maybe some cool things about the technology , but it's about the person . Kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation , everyone is different , everyone is motivated by different things and as leaders . We have to take the time of every team member to see what drives them specifically , and it is not going to be the same across the board .
Speaker 1You know . With that in mind , matt , you had mentioned the idea of sales training and how it's really beneficial for the people that are going through it , and one of the things that all leaders want is a team that feels happy , confident and they feel like they can actually go out there , put their name behind something and know that they're selling a great product that's a match for the customer , and this requires training on both the technical aspects of the product so people understand what they're selling and they know what's a good fit for the customer , as well as more of those soft skills when it comes to actually having those conversations with the customers and ensuring that they're getting the most out of that and they feel confident in the way they're going about the conversation , not just their product knowledge . So , as a leader , how do you view the balance of technical training and soft skill training , and why do you think it's important to have both ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it's a great question . It is certainly important to have both and I can't I don't think I could stack rank those . I don't think one is more important than the other . You have to know your product , but you also have to know people and Sometimes , in my experience , teaching the soft skills is harder than teaching those hard skills around product knowledge , specs of what you're selling , maybe different business models . If you're trying to sell consultatively , that stuff you can really do in a textbook . But when it comes to people , selling to people and understanding not just who you're selling to , but understanding yourself and being self-aware enough to know how you're coming across , that's tough and kudos to anyone that can really drive behavioral changes in that space , specifically Because it's not easy , I tend to hire for soft skills first because I found that that's hardest to train and then , knowing that we can train the hard skills on the back , I would highly recommend that organizations focus on both . On figuring out a way to bridge the technical versus the soft skills is crucial for success .
Speaker 1Well
Transitioning to Leadership
Speaker 1, thank you for that . I feel like we've covered a ton of ground today , both whenever it comes to the future of sales , how AI technology is going to get involved in it , what it's going to look like to be a good leader to ensure that you can manage organizational change , as well as some of the training aspects of what that'll look like on the backside , both managing some of those more technical skills as well as those soft skills . So I guess the last question I have is kind of a dealer's choice question . You've been fantastic . We've covered a ton of great area . What do you feel like we haven't covered yet whenever it comes to maybe an up-and-coming sales leader ? So if you were talking to somebody , they were your friend , they got pushed into a role where they went from managing a small team of maybe a dozen to a large team of over 100 . What are some considerations that you'd want to make sure that they were thinking of as they were making that transition and they're becoming a leader ? First ?
Speaker 2thing that comes to mind is the difference between leading leaders and leading individual contributors . As your leadership responsibilities scale , you'll more than likely have leaders reporting to you instead of individual contributors . That's a very different skill set needed and the tools are different . The approach is different . You're now trying to coach someone to coach others , so making sure that you can discern between the two , and then how you prepare yourself . Sometimes I know for me , you're kind of thrown off the deep end and you're just you get that promotion or you get that new job . There's not always a formal training program that says this is how you teach new leaders and how do you figure that out ? So the first thing I recommend is learning how to self-educate , which maybe you already have and that's how you've risen in your career . So this would be no different . But seek out advice , whether that's from peers , whether you invest in yourself and you get some of your own coaching and go to school .
Speaker 2For me , I've tried to do all of the above . I do the formal stuff . I'm in a master's program right now focused on leadership , but I also talk to people . I think that there's a big difference between textbooks and experience . I mean getting that experience comes from those that have done it before . So making sure that you're having conversations with leaders that you respect , that are willing to invest in you in addition to the certifications , the formal coaching , the master's program , so whatever best benefits to you , but you have to take action to advocate yourself . And making sure that you're preparing yourself for the role .
Speaker 2Also knowing you're going to make mistakes . As responsibilities grow and you're responsible for more people or more dollars , or both . You're going to come across things that you just don't know or you aren't good at yet . And for me , I've made mistakes , I've definitely had to learn some hard lessons , but the one thing that I look back on that's helped make me successful is that I just get back up and I don't let a negative experience impact my future . And making sure that I learned from that .
Speaker 2And it's not easy and you don't always get live feedback right when you need it to improve as a leader .
Speaker 2Sometimes it comes months later you do , you have a conversation with a director , report and say you know , remember we had a one-on-one six months ago and you said this and it didn't come across well to me . It's humbling as a leader to hear that and really powerful for our own self-development as leaders , but knowing that we're not always going to , in real time , know like , hey , you messed up . You might not even remember what you said six months ago I didn't at the time when I've gotten feedback like that . So how do we reflect and also take that feedback at face value , trust that you know that it is a reveal or is real for that person , even if we don't remember or think maybe we did something wrong ? We also have to remember that someone else perceived an action a certain way . So how can we make sure that we actually understand how we're being perceived , not just how we think we're portraying ourselves and that's going to be keep our leaders should success .
Takeaways on Technology and Leadership
Speaker 1Awesome . Well , thank you for those final thoughts there , matt . For these future leaders and for everybody out there listening , I hope you really were able to take away some valuable things from this podcast . I know I certainly did , especially whatever it comes to the ideas of technology integrating with the sales process , as well as what it looks like to be a great leader and some of the considerations we need to keep in mind . If you're listening in and you feel like you would make for a great guest for our podcast , or you know a great leader who you think would be a great guest that others need to hear from , please reach out and we'd love to hear from you .