Charting a Path to Impact with Authentic Engagement

Ankur Bhatia, our guest for today's podcast, embodies the quest for purpose and the sweeping influence of education on one's life trajectory. From his family’s journey coming to America, his experiences in the classrooms of India, and his work in the Ed Tech industry helping students in the US, Ankur has lived his life in service of missions bigger than himself, and in this episode, he will be sharing his life with us, and some of the lessons learned along the way. 

Transcript

Finding Purpose and Enacting Change

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome everybody to the Sales Gym Podcast , where we discuss topics like sales , training and human development . Today we will be taking a journey across continents to deepen our understanding of how to find purpose in life and how to enact change successfully . Our guest on this journey is Ankur Bhasha , who has held a variety of roles in the education industry , from an educator in a classroom to an education technology evangelist , who has helped teachers acquire the skills and technology they need to inspire kids in classrooms so those kids can go on and chase their dreams . Ankur has led a life worth writing about , which started with decisions made by his own father , it progressed into a finance education , and then that brought him across the world to find his calling and his purpose in life . Today we'll be diving into Ankur's story and I hope it inspires you like it inspired me . And for those looking for some business advice or lessons learned , don't worry , we have you covered as well . So , with all that said , ankur , welcome to the podcast and we're happy to have you .

Speaker 2 0:55

Wow . Well , thank you for that incredible introduction . I'm thrilled to be here as well .

Speaker 1 0:59

So , Ankur , I guess we'll just dive right in . Can you share a little bit about your early life and what led you to studying economics at Northwestern and then pivoting towards education entrepreneurship ? I'm curious what that path looked like for you and what was that initial motivation .

Speaker 2 1:14

Yeah , yeah . Well , it was anything but a linear path , but I like to think it was kind of a series of happy accidents and just kind of following my gut and intuition that led me from kind of one thing to the next . So I guess , starting with my upbringing in my early childhood , like you alluded to in my intro , my parents are first generation immigrants from India . My dad was born and raised and then the small town in India , was the oldest of four siblings and when he was 17 years old was told by his grandfather that you're the oldest , you have the best grades , you're going to the US to build a life and a career and then therefore have the ability to give back to the family as well . And so when he was 17 , he jumped on a one-way flight to India . Well , he had four layovers , so you can imagine the first time flying , and he's flying from India to Rome , to Frankfurt . So I don't even know how else he got to where he ended up , in Cookville , tennessee , of all places . That's where he got admission to college , tennessee Tech , studying candlelight engineering and very kind of the quintessential self-made man who came here with practically nothing , just a dream and an ambition and goals to make a life better for himself and his family , worked all sorts of odd jobs while he was at school , everything from selling Bibles door to door to selling balloons at the zoo in the summer , and he's got all sorts of war stories with those experiences as well . I went on to become a nuclear engineer and worked at power plants all throughout kind of the southeast and the Midwest in the regions of the country , and then when he was in 1980 , so he would have been about 24 , got a call for his grandfather . It was like eight , started to get married , come back to India , had a marriage with my mom . Five days later they were hitched and then they moved back to the US together and started their life here in America .

Speaker 2 3:08

And I went on to have a very nice , comfortable middle-class upbringing but there was always a lot of emphasis on education and exceeding in school and exceeding in academics and it was not like an overly pressured environment , but it was just . There was always this emphasis to give my best effort to whatever I was doing . And then when I was applying for college I was in carts to apply to the best schools in the country and got admitted into Northwestern here in Chicago and in my first year I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do . I actually took classes more on the science , thinking I was going to go on to become a doctor , but became really interested in economics as a discipline and as a subject area . I just think you know , one of the most important things in life to learn is just how do you make a decision or how do you evaluate and think critically about a problem . And that's really what economics is is looking at a problem and being able to have the analytical skill sets to look at it objectively , weigh the pros and cons and make what you hope is the optimal decision . Thank you , and I think we all know in life that things are not always as cut and dry as they are in an economics problem set , but it helps give a framework and I think that's a very helpful skill set in business hand in life . And so that's why I say economics with the initial career plan of going into kind of the finance and business world , and I did that for a little while . But I think when I also learned early on in my career is that it's important that I feel at least somewhat passionate about where I am and the work I'm doing and that I feel like there is an alignment to my values about the work I'm doing and or the products and services that I represent , why I'm in , you know , and that's . I'll touch a little bit more on that when I get to kind of the sales aspect of my career .

Speaker 2 5:16

But what I ended up doing is kind of making a big shift . In getting into education . I found an opportunity called Teach for India , which is a two year teaching fellowship in India . That would place me in a low income public school where I would be tasked to do my best to teach these students and close what they call the achievement gaps . So most of these kids were behind where they really needed to be in terms of achievement and it was my task to try to close the gap as much as I could with the two years that I was with them and I viewed it as an opportunity , having grown up here , to go back to India , where my parents are from , and really get to know where I originally came from and also for my own perspective on what it meant to be Indian , you know , because that was largely shaped by my parents' perspective on it . But they left India 30 years ago and India is a vastly different country now .

Speaker 2 6:19

So it was an incredible and life changing experience for me . It pushed me way outside my comfort zone . It was taxing physically , mentally , emotionally to show up in a school with 42 kids , in a classroom with bare bones infrastructure , but still with high expectations , to do the best I could for that . And that experience taught me a lot about the importance of relationships , because , you know , teaching is really all about building genuine connections with your students . I think and to this day , having been in sales now for almost 10 years , the hardest sale I've ever had to make is getting 42 kids to sit down and listen to me for even five minutes . Right , and like every morning , I had the opportunity to capture their attention , and the most successful days I had planned an engaging lesson , I had planned an engaging way to open the lesson and capture their attention , and on days where I didn't , I'd lost it and it was chaos and like you know , and so I had to really make sure that I was prepared every day .

Speaker 2 7:30

Yeah , the first six months were really tough because I was still building relationships , not only with my students but with their families and also with my principal and other teachers in the school , because I was an outsider , right , I was coming from literally halfway across the world and , although I looked like them , I sounded and talked very differently . But , you know , once I built the relationships and once I earned the trust of the students in the community , then it changed drastically right and I was able to meet them where they're at and they were able to understand where I was at , and it was really an extremely rewarding experience . And , you know , I also made amazing friends . I also learned the value and the power of asking for help , because India can be a challenging place to navigate . Sometimes it took me three months to open a bank account . There's this all sorts of bureaucracy and rules . I'm like you . Just you need help , you know , and I learned to ask for it , and I got it from people that were very willing to help me . And so I think again it goes back to that value relationships . Once you have relationships built , then you can get a lot of things done .

Speaker 2 8:44

Without them , it's a lot harder to do things on your own right , and I ended up meeting my wife there and she and I came back to the US together and when I came back , I wasn't sure exactly how to take my experience forward , but I knew I was committed to working in education . I wasn't sure about continuing my work in the classroom and developed an interest in ed tech . So while I was in India , I'd actually piloted some technology programs in my classroom and I saw the value of , you know , bringing in digital tools to basically expand access of content and experiences for my students , and so I was fortunate enough to find a position and opportunity with an ed tech company that had developed a really innovative way to teach math without language . So it was all about like visual representations of math and coming off of a teaching experience where I experienced firsthand how language can be a barrier to comprehension , right Depending on the topic . You know . I saw a lot of value in that product and the instructional model of it , so I initially started doing more account management and implementations of training teachers on how to implement the program , and that was recognized as having sales talents and transitioning into a sales role , and I think that's important .

Speaker 2 10:13

I think I don't think most people that earn sales when they were four year olds you know , when they were young . If you ask them , what do you want to be when you grow up . I don't think any four year old is like I want to be in sales , right , like it's usually . I want to be an astronaut , I want to be a , I want to drive a fire truck or whatever . Maybe I want to be a YouTube star , you know , like that . But you know , I think , a lot of people that end up in sales , you know , maybe they maybe it happened accidentally or you realize , you know when you're older that I mean sales really is all about sales as life , sales as light in business , and without sales , where would these companies be , where would any organization be without people that are out there on the front lines , promoting , growing , advocating .

Speaker 2 11:02

And so when I recognized my own skill set and how I could contribute in a sales role , it was a natural transition and a natural fit . And I kind of had a look back since and so I ended up moving back up to Chicago . I was previously down in New Orleans , back up to Chicago and kind of overtook the Midwest territory , expanding partnerships with districts , and was pretty successful in that role . And then a couple of years ago , I transitioned more into the BWSAS world , selling learning products to enterprises , many of whom were also serving K-12 , higher ed , kind of everything in between , and that , I think , gave me an opportunity to sort of amplify the impact I could have in a broader level .

Speaker 2 11:52

And so , yeah , I think , you know , through most of my career , even though I've kind of you know , it's been a zig and a zag , I think there's been a few things that have been , you know , that have extended from one experience to the other . Right , and one is always about keeping relationships at the center of the work that I'm doing . I think sales is a lot less about the product and service . I mean , it is to an extent it has to , of course , work and there has to be a market for it . But the other day , you know , I do believe that people buy people and you know I love the phrase people buy with emotion , justify with logic . I think that's held true in a lot of the engagements that I've had , and without that relationship , without that genuine trust , then I don't think a seller can be nearly as effective as they could be , and it makes the job a lot more rewarding and fun when you know that is the way that sales are developed .

Speaker 1 12:55

So with that in mind , I'm just kind of curious , whenever you've been , you know , in these different roles where first you have to build consensus at a classroom full of a bunch of little kids , then you're going in and you're educating educators and they're like you know , what do you have to teach me ? I'm a teacher , how can you teach me to learn ? And then you're talking about maybe selling into large school districts and enterprises . There's a lot of getting buy in and kind of building consensus around ideas and creating collaboration there . What are some maybe big lessons learned around building consensus and collaboration that you think transcends maybe an individual role ? It is just a general good lesson people bring and bring into their lives , whether they're selling to companies , whether they're selling school districts or whether just selling an idea of a typical , you know like weekend with a family or friends and trying to get people on board . What are some ideas you have for us around building that collaboration , that consensus , in these different roles ?

Balancing Sales and Mission-Driven Work

Speaker 2 13:43

Yeah , yeah , that's a great question and I think it's a challenging and complex one , I think I mean , ultimately , I think it's a couple things it starts with being an active listener , right . I mean not coming in assuming I have all the answers to what their problems are , because maybe the answer that I have is not the problem that they're actually struggling with , and so I think there's a big risk in ever making assumptions about what a person actually wants and needs , right . So I think it's coming in with lower assumptions or even expectations about you know where you know a conversation may go in the early stages of the discovery and sales process , right . So asking those open-ended questions what are your goals ? What are you looking to accomplish ? Right , because it's all about fit , right . I mean , I don't think sales is really about convincing people , it's about building alignment , right , and so I think when you go over that mindset and you set that expectation , then there's more trust earned and that initial resistance that I think a lot of prospects and customers often come to the table with starts to get lowered . Right , and I think that's really the first goal at a sales engagement is get people to open up and share , and that happens through asking thoughtful , open-ended questions and shows that you understand where they're at but are more eager to learn right and to have more of a student sort of mindset going into it . And then , once the needs , the pains , the challenges are uncovered right , then start then putting kind of the educator hat on right . So it starts by being a learner first and then transitioning into being more of a teacher , right ?

Speaker 2 15:20

Okay , now let me show you , let me educate you about the product , the service and the potential results that our collaboration may lead to , right , and also , you know , asking those kind of level setting , checking questions along the way . You know , are these the results that you care about , right ? Because sometimes the results that your product promises are not in line with the results that they care about right ? And you know , I think the other layer with you know , whether it's a school district or an enterprise is that often the person that's buying or investing in that product to service is not the end user , right ? And so I think it's also about having the end user in mind throughout the engagement and reminding the buyer or whoever you're engaging with . You know what this is all about , right , if it's about student achievement or it's about increasing access of a product to service so that you know more students can engage with it .

Speaker 2 16:15

You know , whatever it is , you know if that's the goal , the objective or the pain or challenge that's being , that's attempting to be solved , to make sure that that stays at the center of all the conversations , right , because you know I think we've learned , especially this year with you know , how challenging things are with budgets and macroeconomic conditions that you know you could have a champion who's all excited about what the product to service can enable them to do . But if there's not a very clear business case , right , if the value is not super clear , if the results that could come from it are not super clear and measurable , then deals are at risk , they're at high risk of getting killed , especially once they get to the CFO's desk or the economic buyer or whoever is that's evaluating these proposals . Right , because there's only so many resources to go around . And so , yeah , I think it's always . It's always , you know , to kind of summarize , it's about asking good , thoughtful , open-ended questions . That leads to building trust and rapport , you know , keeping the focus on the results and outcomes that would result from an engagement .

Speaker 2 17:28

And then I think there's one more piece that I forgot , which is also giving your buyers an opportunity to try it out for themselves , if that's possible , if your product or service enables an ability to do a smaller test case or use case , and as long as the expectations are set at the front , that if X , y and Z results are met , that there's a plan to move forward , there's a plan to sustain it .

Speaker 2 17:52

Right , because otherwise that may be , that might not be a good use of time for everybody at the table , but sometimes it's better to be like all right , you don't need to believe me , right , like I'm not here to convince you and it's yourself , right and you know , and run your own evaluation . But let's be in alignment on how you're gonna look at it , how you , what your success criteria are , so that I can also be play a supportive role throughout that pilot process or that try before you buy , or whatever that evaluation looks like , cause that's where I think you also build trust , gain champions , gain advocates that are willing to kind of entirely sell , to get deals done and to get projects approved .

Speaker 1 18:44

You know a lot of the people I work with .

Speaker 1 18:46

They tend to have some apprehension about selling , if that makes sense . There are some sharks out there who are just constantly going for the sale , going for the sell , and a lot of these people who have those apprehensions , they wanna get more of that in them . One of the issues they have is they feel uncomfortable actually selling . And one of the things that I was curious about whenever it comes to selling , especially in like mission driven work where you genuinely care about the outcomes how do you balance that desire to sell , the desire to hit the company's metrics they've set out for you and your role , with this idea that you're actually serving a higher purpose , you're helping accomplish a mission ? How do you go about maybe resolving some of that and maybe getting I don't know if more aggressive is the right word , but more assertive about the idea that the end customer may need what you have and it's okay to go out there and sell ? How do you kind of resolve that conflict ? Cause I see that a lot , especially with a lot of the education clients I've worked with .

Finding the Right Fit

Speaker 2 19:39

Yeah , I mean , I think it starts with a little bit of you know , kind of inner self reflection and asking you know yourself as a seller the question why am I selling this right , and who is a good at that ? A bit , you know . Come up with your own answer to that question . Don't just take it surface level , the answer that maybe your company is giving you because you know as a seller , yes , we are ambassadors of the organization that we represent . Well , we all have our own unique voices . We have our own unique way of telling our own stories and what I've been most successful , I've been able to create an authentic narrative that kind of weaves in the product or service that I'm selling . For example , when I sold that math product , right , I felt like I had a very good story about my own experience as a teacher and the struggles I had with connecting with my students and a product that I know I could have personally benefited Right . And so I think it always starts with you know , yeah , asking that question why am I selling this and who could have benefited and how can I tell my own authentic story about it , right . And I think once you have that down , I mean like sales is always a little bit uncomfortable at the beginning , right . It's like dating , right , I mean it's an analogy that I think a lot of us have used , you know , to understand it . It's like first date is always awkward . You're getting to know each other and it's like , oh , what are your expectations , what are my expectations ? All that , right , but if your intentions are genuine , it's sincere , then a lot of that discomfort can dissipate pretty quick , right , so I think that's always the first and foremost thing . I think balancing that with sales expectations and expectations of , you know , a company can always be a bit tricky , right , but I think it's also , you know , reminding that there's . There's kind of .

Speaker 2 21:28

I think a seller has three main responsibilities , right . One is to sell , to hit their own goals . Right , to sell for the company . Right , because without sales a company doesn't grow and a company doesn't survive , right , I mean , it is a big responsibility that sellers shoulder to literally keep the lights on . Right , and if we are unsuccessful , then not only do we bear the consequences but so does the whole business . Right , and then you know , of course we have their responsibilities to our families to win and provide and succeed .

Speaker 2 22:04

Right , and you know , all those three things can be heavy , right , when you're trying to balance all those right , but my belief is that if your intentions are sincere , if you have the willingness to put the client's needs before your own in a thoughtful and practical way , right , where you know sellers can't give their products away , even if they wanted to right , you know so there is an element of accountability that has to be implemented through the sales process , that it leads to results and leads to close deals and revenue .

Speaker 2 22:38

All that right , but I do think that revenue and winning deals is the byproduct , not the result , of a successful engagement . Right , it's about winning the relationship , it's about winning the trust and , ideally , when those things are met and established , then you know the deal will come right . So , yeah , but yeah , I think you know it always comes back to you know , being in a place , being in an environment representing a product or service there is conviction and belief in , and I think that that translates and people can tell . Right , people can tell when you're selling something you believe in versus one you don't right , and it like it doesn't mean you can't succeed when you're representing a product that you're not fully believe you bought in . But it does make it arch , and I think that's worth checking in on both before you aren't joining an organization , but even when you're with one , because things can change .

Speaker 1 23:34

You know , with that in mind , we have seen a lot of economic shifts here over the last year or two and there's a lot of people out there on the job market who've been in successful roles .

Speaker 1 23:43

They've been into multiple different companies and they've had a chance to get a lot of experience . So they are experienced sellers and one of the challenges is finding an organization that you think you're a good fit with and that you believe in their mission and their product and you actually think I can go out there with integrity , I can sell this . So , whenever it comes to maybe selecting a company for some of these people who are transitioning and looking around , what are some things they should be considering either about the product they're selling , the teams they're going into , the organizational culture . What are some thoughts you have on people that really make that right fit selection so that way they can actually land somewhere they want to stick with long term and that they can believe in . Whenever they're stepping in with a client or a prospect and they're saying you should be working with us , they can actually have that belief . What are some thoughts you have ?

Speaker 2 24:25

Yeah , I mean , there's a lot of great companies out there , great organizations . I think , especially in the interview process , sometimes it can feel like everybody's on their best behavior and then when you finally get through and you get there , you're like , okay , this is a little different than how it was presented . And it's not that anybody is trying to be insincere on purpose , but companies want to hire talent and talented people want to work for great companies and ideally there's alignment there . But I think whenever you're evaluating a company organization , I think there's two things that I try to do . One is to put my hat on as if I was an investor . So if I was investing my own money in a company , then how would I evaluate it ? I would look at their financial health , I would look at the product and I would look at the market that they're trying to serve . If they look like there's upside and demand for the product that's being sold , do I understand who will actually buy this product , how sticky it is . So evaluate it as if you're an investor . Would you buy the stock of the company ? You think the stock has upside ? If it's a private company , would you invest it as if you were a venture capitalist ? So I think that's one of the first things to look for Evaluating it on purely as an objective business , whether that's it has a sustainable future that you believe in .

Speaker 2 26:03

I think the second thing as a seller is to ask questions about the sales organization of the culture . I think the best sales teams that I've been a part of have been learning organizations . I've loved selling while being on a team and having the ability to learn from other sellers on my team , and the best managers that I've had , I think , have been a combination of coaches and therapists . So the best sales managers are ones that are willing to kind of get in the trenches with me , a that have sold themselves and have been successful . I think that's important .

Speaker 2 26:48

So they know what is required . They know that sellers have good days and bad days and when a seller is having a good day , celebrate them , leave them alone . When seller is having a bad day , step in support , have their back . But yeah , when you're part of a team , then everybody has their own way of kind of going about selling . They've loved observing other sellers that have their own unique approaches and strategies and being able to steal and borrow from that and also be able to contribute . It's fun to be able to help other people not just customers , but other sellers be successful as well . So I think the other piece is about the sales culture and whether you feel like you can be a positive contributor to that team that elevates everybody's ability to succeed , not just your own . Those are my two main pieces of advice .

Speaker 1 27:49

With that in mind , I guess one of the last thing I'd actually want to know about is , whenever it comes to the shift we've seen in selling , it used to be all in-person all the time . That's just how people did business , but now it's moving more into a virtual world where we're taking a lot of video calls and doing more phone calls than usual . I'm just kind of curious how have you been adjusting to that and what advice do you have for other sellers out there who are trying to make those adjustments ?

Speaker 2 28:12

Yeah , it's a great question and one I've struggled with myself over the last couple of years .

Speaker 2 28:18

The first thing I would say is , especially now that COVID is hopefully quote-of-word over , is if you can get out there , if you can be your customers in person , if there is that opportunity , if you can leverage networking events and conferences to connect with your prospects , I think it's well worth the effort to do so .

Speaker 2 28:39

I know that the default still is to sell virtually , but I found whenever I had the opportunity to connect in person , even if it's very brief , it naturally changes the dynamic once we give back to our virtual realms and reconnect , it just naturally strengthens the relationship and , of course , puts a real face to the name when you're moving forward with the engagement . I think the other thing I would say is you know Everybody has a digital footprint these days , so you do the best you can to research people online , see what they're posting on LinkedIn , you know , follow their social media accounts , try to get to know your prospects on a personal basis and use whatever airtime you can during a meeting to build rapport and show genuine interest in who they are as a person , cause ultimately , at the end of the day , people buy people , and I think it makes a big difference when you show interest in a person rather than treating them as just a prospect . So those would be my two pieces of advice that I try to follow myself .

Speaker 1 29:51

You know , I just wanna say thank you for your time here today , anker . It's been a pleasure and I hope everyone out there is leaving feeling as inspired as I am to go out there . Form those relationships , make sure that our actual mission and the things we're saying are in alignment and you just bring some you know some great conversations into the since the workplaces are , into the actual educational workspaces where people are every single day . I guess one of the things I'd be curious to hear about before we end here is just what are some last thoughts you have for our listeners ? They could be some we've touched on already you wanna get in more depth in , or it could be a question that you were just screaming through the , you know through the phone here , like Dean , please ask me this , please ask me this what is it you wanna leave these our listeners with today ?

Speaker 2 30:34

Yeah , I mean I have a couple of thoughts , but I think you know , you know I'm sort of in a transition myself and so you know I'm thinking about . You know where I wanna go , kind of who I wanna be when I grow up . You know , in this next phase of my life , you know , I think there's a lot of people that may be listening to us , that are out there that are also wanting to make a change . Right , and I think what I wanna put out there in the world is , if you wanna make a change , whatever that looks like , if you wanna be selling for a different organization or if you wanna , you know , if you're thinking about a career shift altogether , I think we all owe it to ourselves to ask the hard questions about A why do I wanna make a change ? You know , how can I potentially get there ?

Speaker 2 31:16

And , you know , start thinking about the practical steps to do so , because I think everybody deserves to have a rewarding and fulfilling career , you know , and our jobs are not meant to necessarily keep us warm at night . You know and be , you know , this complete fulfillment of all desires . But I think that everybody is capable of much more than they may think and it's worth going through whatever exercise a person needs to go through to get one step closer to where they wanna be . You know , I think it is a tough environment right now , with the job market and with things in flux , and I know there's . You know , we all have to be responsible and practical and provide for our families , and so there's , of course , something to be said of holding on to what's familiar to her , but I don't think that that should be the sole reason to not explore the idea of making a change if that's something that you're really feeling in your gut .

Speaker 1 32:18

So , bill , thank you for that , okur and to everybody out there today we talked about is Okur's journey from finance to the classroom in India , selling educational products here in America . We talked about finding alignment in your mission with the people you're working with and selling to , talked about how to identify the right company to work for if you're in transition , and we also talked about some ideas around selling and remote work and how to make sure that , when you are ready to make that change and be successful , some of the considerations that should be going through your mind . So I hope you found that this was valuable today . I hope you're walking away feeling inspired and feeling good out there and you're ready to start your week . If you're listening to our podcast and you think that yourself or somebody that you know would be a great guest , please reach out to us and let us know . We would love to hear from you . And until next time , everybody , stay safe , have fun , good luck out there and I'll catch y'all in the next episode .