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SalesGym Interview Series
The SalesGym Interview Series brings you fresh thinking from Sales Leaders that can help you lead, manage and train a higher performing sales team. You’ll gain insights into what top performing sales professionals are doing that are giving them their competitive advantage.
SalesGym Interview Series
Mastering the Art of Memorable Sales Partnerships
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Have you ever wondered what it's like to be the person everybody remembers - for all the right reasons? Dan Satinoff, with his two decades of channel sales expertise, joins us to uncover the secrets behind forging powerful connections in the business world. He illustrates how the subtle art of being present, accountable, and responsible, accompanied with the magic of being memorable, can elevate your professional game to league-leading heights. If you’re someone looking to establish your personal brand in the business world that transcends the role you’re in, this is the episode for you.
Building Relationships in Channel Sales
Speaker 1Welcome to the sales gym podcast , where we cover topics like sales training and human development behavior . Today , we're excited to have Dan Satinoff , who is a senior director of North American channels with Aversa Networks . Dan is an expert in channel sales not just because of his industry and technical knowledge . A large part of his success has been his relationship building skills that focus on old school principles , which is why I'm really excited to bring this to all of you today , because we're all going to have something to learn . So , dan , it's really great to have you with us , really happy to have you .
Speaker 2Dean , thanks for the invite . I'm really excited to be here .
Speaker 1Before we get into all the advice we're going to be getting into and some of the examples and stories you have in store for us , I think the first thing that would be helpful for our listeners is just maybe a high level overview of what channel sales are for the people that don't really have a background in this , because it's not traditional selling .
Speaker 2Yeah , Dean no doubt channel sales . From my perspective , especially in the IT world , distribution world , relationship building world is a little bit different , right ? So we're not directly selling to an end user . Think about a distributor or a reseller or someone else who's in between right ? So we're selling and building relationships with partners who are distributors and or resellers , who are ultimately selling to the end user , and we kind of own my team and myself we own those relationships .
Speaker 1Okay , good to go . That makes a lot of sense . Now , whenever it comes to working with these different channels , I feel like getting to understand , maybe , the channel partners you're working with and what they're exactly they're doing kind of the way they function is probably critical . So how has getting to know the channel and what the machinations behind it are , how has that impacted your success in your career in this kind of in this lane ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so I've been in this lane , as you put it , for about 20 plus years and that's really all I have done from a sales perspective .
Speaker 2Now , when I say all I've done from a sales perspective , it's a different kind of go to marketing sales as you kind of , as you kind of mentioned , right . So it's very influence based , right , we're not , I'm not going to ABC end user and pitching the product . That's where the sales , the end user , sales teams involved . But the channel , right , whether it be a really big organization like CDW who has thousands and thousands of sellers , or a small reseller that's in Boise , idaho , that's selling to , you know , 300 of their closest best friends , right , they are their value added , trusted advisor , as you say . And then our job is really to add value to them from the standpoint of product knowledge , product engagement , understanding how , different ideas , how to sell the product or to market the product . But , but our job is really a kid , going back to adding value to those , those companies who are then going to sell to the end user . So very influence are based .
Speaker 1Now you mentioned being influencer based . I'm assuming this has a lot to do with kind of building up relationships , which is a lot of what we discussed prior , and I'm just kind of curious , like what mantras are principles or ideas do you bring to the table whenever it comes to relationship building ? What's kind of your foundational mindset behind that we can kind of learn where you're coming from whenever it comes to building these relationships so you can actually have some influence .
Speaker 2Yes , dean , that's great . So I'm a big fan of leaders that are repeaters and I got that from one of my old bosses in my in my days at Brookhead . He was kind of the best kind of building muscle memory with what you're saying . So that always sticks in my mind and from a much perspective , I've always said this to my team so many times . They're probably sick of it over my career , but it's show off the accountable , be responsible to be memorable . If you do those things , you're better than 50% of the people that are out there and and and I kind of mean that from the standpoint of you know , those are table standards and I would hope to think that most people , in whatever industry you're in , do those four things . But reality is , dean you know it from being a sales coach , I know it from being in this industry for a long time that that's not the case Right . So that's always kind of been my mantra and one of my , one of my mentors back in my days when I was at tech data , which was a large global distributor that I kind of caught my teeth on working there . I got him Tom Henninger and and Tom was larger than life and was great at building memories and I kind of took that and tweezed a few of the things that he kind of instilled in us as field reps and kind of made it my own . But but I looked at that as as the big baseline .
Speaker 2And another mantra that I really like , dean , and what I think about all the time and hopefully talk enough about with my team , is that you don't need that leadership in your title to be a leader and I mean this not only from my team that I'm working with , but it could be account managers , could be at the , it could be the child partners we're working with and , even more importantly , the distributors working with , because they're in the middle of the entire sales process , right .
Speaker 2So those are kind of some of the mantras that I like . And another one , if I can go , is you know , knowing and doing your two different things , and I like to talk about that with , with my sales team and with my partners . And , and again , you , being a sales coach , you know you're probably setting the stage with your , with your , your folks right , with your clients on . They know what to do , but it's got to turn the muscle . Main memories actually do it , and that's what I kind of like to look at and think about how do we , how do we turn in the know , any aspect that we all kind of read a book or listen to podcasts or have been , you know , learning . For some learning , since we started ourselves in a mentioned training is you got to , you got to execute , you got to do it .
Speaker 1So , whenever it comes to those execution pieces of that , like , obviously we've seen there's a difference between knowledge and working knowledge right , being able to actually go out and apply some of these skills are important , but whenever you're thinking about skills that you want to work on , you want to learn how to apply what are maybe some skills that are very useful that you advise people to focus on , and whenever it comes to maybe applying them at different levels of an organization , what are your thoughts on that as well ? And feel free to answer this any way you see fit . So if I'm talking to somebody who I , you know , view is more like a peer level versus somebody who's way high up in a C-suite versus maybe some support staff I'm working with , like , what are the things we're trying to do as far as the fundamentals are focusing on in those communications , and how does that differ across levels of the organization ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's a great question and good comment . So , you know , everybody is important , everyone wants to be valued , right ? So that is something that I've really thought about and tried to instill in kind of my go to market when I'm dealing with my partners and customers . You know a good example , like you know the person at the front desk , right ? You know you want to make a memory with that person and you want to make sure that they understand that they're valued and it could be simple , right ? I mean , I think about a partner that I used to work with years ago and the front desk person . She had a great attitude and great energy and every time I saw her it was like you go up and I'm not a big hug person , but I would give her a hug . Wasn't something I wanted to do , but she wanted to do it back , so give her a hug . You know , it's like every time you walk in and that was great . So you gotta start there , right ? Because they're the gatekeepers of the company . But you have to do it all the time . You can't , like , do it once and then forget about the person , right ?
Speaker 2Other titles in the organization , other people within the organization right , again , it goes back to what kind of value you can bring then right . So , when I think about the C-suite and the executive level , I've always tried to myself on at least being as knowledgeable , or somewhat knowledgeable , on the industry therein and what their , how I can bring a business conversation to them , right . So I like to , I like to , you know , peruse LinkedIn as much as I can , listen to podcasts as much as I can read different books . Yes , yes , to better myself , but , moreover , to give a nugget of goodness to an executive , right , that's not me going in why my product is the best or why they should be buying this , or why the margin versus better than that's everyone's gonna do that and it's to show up and throw up kind of mentality . Let me talk about my company that I work for , but I really try to add something a little different with the executives that I work with , where they're gonna remember it , right , they're gonna remember that I came in and I added I actually care about their company and I care about them growing as an organization , whether it's with my product or not . So I really I try to focus there From a sales perspective , you know , especially in the IT world where there's so many offerings ?
Speaker 2Right , a lot of these value-added resellers might have 25 , 30 , a hundred companies that they're dealing with and every OEM in the back of their mind . How do you bring me into customers that I'm not talking to today ? Right , that's in the back of the mind of every channel account manager or sales rep . Maybe they don't come out and say it right in the beginning , but that's what they're thinking of . And vice versa . The account managers of the organizations are what's in it for me , what can you bring me into and how much margin can I make ? Right , not , they had the back in their back of their mind . In their back of their mind , they're always thinking about the mission and always thinking about how do I best serve my end customer ? But , yes , it is about dollars that can be made and that's important . So you have to figure out in the easiest way to make sure you provide the right amount of information for them to be successful . Right , for the account manager to be successful at the value-added reseller . But , the same token , know that it's a community .
Speaker 2And one thing I like to think about all the time is , in the channel world , the channel account manager , no matter what organization , cannot be fully successful unless the account executives at that OEM are fully engaged , right .
Speaker 2So what I mean by that , the channel account managers can't do it on their own right .
Speaker 2They're the kind of quarterback of the organization when it comes to channel , and then the account manager needs to be successful .
Speaker 2So from a best practice perspective and I think so many people are doing it really well these days is mapping up the account manager , account manager and going build the relationships there and actually bringing them in . And what I mean by bringing them in it's really simple when a reseller account manager opens up an opportunity to allow us to go speak with their customer that they're the trusted advisor they have this great relationship with , that we on the OEM side keep them ultra engaged . Now , ultra engaged could mean they're invited to every single call and every single meeting . That might not be the case where they're gonna tend to all , but it does mean about telemetry after the fact , where we're providing data on how that call went and what action items does the account manager have . I've always found the more you engage with that account manager and let them know what success or failures they're having , the more they're gonna wanna help , right , and that's , I think one of the biggest areas of being successful with different levels of an account manager , with the bar .
Speaker 1So , Dan , you mentioned this relationship building and we're talking about it all levels of the organization and you mentioned getting to know the person at the front desk and how you guys formed a relationship there . Where have you seen that make an impact in your career ? And it could be either with somebody you've worked with in the past , who he was a colleague , or it could be somebody at a different organization . Where have you seen this actually make a real impact ?
Speaker 2It's great . So many unsung heroes in the VAR organization are the inside sales organization support organization and we were working a big opportunity and it took some time . But the unsung hero ultimately was the inside sales rep and once we got closed , our executive sales executive took out a pen and paper and did it old school and sent that person a note . Thank you for saying how important that person was to the opportunity , how we could not have got that job done without that person's input and an ability to help us win . And that's over five , six years later I happened to see the person . I was back at that account and we started chatting about it and the guy went back to his desk , took out the note and shared it with me and I was like , oh , obviously he kept it and made an impact and it's meaningful . So when we think about , little things can mean a lot to anybody involved and it was to me . It was awesome that he kept it and made a lot .
Speaker 1You know .
Building Personal Brand and Memorable Experiences
Speaker 1With that in mind , it feels like you've got a very distinct approach to how you work with people and the impression you want them to have of you and the value you bring into the conversations . It's kind of establishing your reputation or , for lack of a better word , maybe your own personal branding out there about who you are and what people can expect and what they can tell others who they maybe are introducing you to to expect from you . And , whenever it comes to that , what are your thoughts on people in this industry developing their own personal brand ? If they're aversive ideas like branding on social media and the like what are your thoughts on that as far as the importance of it , as well as maybe some key elements of building that brand and making people think , hey , whenever I interact with Dan or whoever else in the industry , this is what I get from them , this is what you can expect . What's the importance of that and what are some key tenets ?
Speaker 2That's a good question , I said . One of the things I like to think about and say is you know , build your brand and be your brand . I think it's really important . And early on like for me back in my days when I was working to check data as an inside sales rep , you know , I always had a really good memory and it still kind of do , getting older , so it's not as good as it used to be , but I would remember , you know , the business aspects of that company or or the person I was dealing with , and I always get a couple of personal nuggets about them and really retain them and I would always kind of weave that into the conversation . Or , more importantly , you know , six months down the road , when I knew that they were a fan of the 76ers and the 76ers were in the playoffs , you know , you bring it up right Out of nowhere and they're like God , good memory or whatever the situation , and that always started the conversation oh , he actually cares , right , he's invested .
Speaker 2The other thing sometimes to a fault is is I try to be ultra responsive . You know , I don't know if you've ever encountered this , but it's happened to me too many times where I'm responding quickly and you respond to an email , you add other people out . The email to . You want to , you know , give them the information that they need whether it's , you know , a sales contact or a partner portal or whatever the situation might be and you add the wrong person and I've done that so many times that you click and send and all of a sudden you know you're there trying to crawl back that that email that was sent . But those are two things that I really think about and like to exude is , you know , memory and being responsive , right .
Speaker 2So with that , it's all about building memories and here's , here's what I mean by that . You know I was I did this early in my career as well , and I've actually done it later in my career where I would , I would actually go out and purchase some , some autographs of MLB players or NHL players or NFL players and and nothing crazy , right , players who weren't the superstars , but people liked them . And when I was meeting with value other resellers or even internal folks , yeah , I find out who they like , and either you drop off an autograph picture of somebody you know who burped my leaven , or some player that they just had growing up , that they were , they were their hero of right , or they like today . And it's interesting when you go back six months later and you see the picture on their desk or they bring it up in conversation and it's not like all of a sudden they're going to buy more stuff or they're going to be friends with that person , but it is something different that you can do . That again makes you memorable to them and differentiation Right .
Speaker 2So so I like I like doing that from a memory perspective .
Speaker 1So you know , we've kind of talked about some of these ideas and some of these memorable experiences you've created . For some people , the hardest part of a journey , they say , is the first step . How would you advise people start maybe creating their own personal brands and getting these things in motions . What are some steps maybe they can start putting in place where they can be more intentional with the relationships they're building and they can think through hey , when I do meet somebody , I'm taking notes on these things and here's the way I like to follow up with them . Here's how I can kind of make this a systematized approach , because if we don't systematize things as we're meeting a lot of different people , it becomes very difficult to maintain all this information in our heads and do something with it . So what is your advice for ? Maybe creating a system of becoming somebody who's very engaging , very memorable , and ensuring you can actually maintain this as you build up hundreds or thousands of relationships over the years .
Speaker 2Yeah , dean , that's a great question and I gotta be honest , I have not mastered that myself right , there's a lot of things that fall to the wayside , but it is taking notes . I use office tools to better myself from the standpoint of making sure that when I put their contact in Outlook , I'm adding some notes about them , key things that I should remember . I will say this I don't get ultra personal with their kid's names or their birthdays or things like that , because , very carefully , birthdays you can find anywhere , whether it's LinkedIn or what have you , but I try to keep some things that are actually gonna be a little bit differentiated from a note perspective . So we all know listen more , talk less . It's kind of the mantra that everyone should be doing , and very rarely do people do it well myself very much , included but when I do shut up for a second and actually listen to them , that's when I'm taking notes on some key differentiations .
Speaker 2Another thing that I like to do and I think is really important when we talk about networking , maybe I'm gonna call it like re-networking , right , everybody has a group of folks that they've worked with , they've sold to , they've had relationships with for years , whether it's 100 people or 1,000 people or 10,000 people , and what I've tried to do over the past I would say five years , especially more and LinkedIn is I kind of peruse my connections Every day . I'll peruse my connections every couple of days , I'll peruse my connections and I'll hit somebody up on LinkedIn just to say hello , right Now . It's a reconnection , and I think about when we're trying to sell to a new prospect , to a new customer . Well , I think everybody in sales knows it's easier to sell to an existing customer or keep an existing customer than it is to get a new one , right ? So I look at that from the same aspect of building relationships .
Speaker 2Right , I'm gonna go talk to the people that I know , I'm gonna reconnect with the people who I've had relationships with , then all of a sudden build on something new and have to start fresh , right , obviously you need that and you have to continually network yourself and connect . But I've had really good success , especially during the pandemic or since the pandemic , where , not asking for anything , no one's coming back to me and wanting anything . It's just how you do it in house life . But the funny thing is when I have those conversations dollars to donuts something good comes out of it . When they're talking about a partner that I didn't know , or maybe they needed help with something that I just that I happen to call them on the right day , and that can be pretty awesome .
Speaker 1You've talked a little bit about some of these really interesting approaches you're taking , where you take down notes , you figure out things that you think are differentiated . You've kind of shared how you create memorable experiences and the like , and I'd be curious to know what are some really memorable experiences you think you've created for some of the partners you've worked with over the years , where you know to this day they probably had this in their mind and every time they see a certain thing or think of your name , that's the experience that comes to their mind . What are some of those ? So we can get some ideas for our listeners on like the type of impact you could have if you actually focus on doing this and how it can stick long term .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's awesome . I'll give you three different things , maybe four if I get crazy , but you know , one of them is there's a theme in my life and I do like to play Glaciac , and one of my partners early on , who was a tough nut to crack but I found out that he enjoyed going to Justina as well . I'm not advocating gambling by any means , but it was a means to an end and we became a really good friends and what we ended up doing for the first first couple of times we had he was . He was in the Pennsylvania area . We drive to Lang City , meet up there and we would sit at a Glaciac table for an hour or two and have lunch and it was always a great meeting and we learned a lot , right , fast forward , fast forward . Five , 10 years . We would end up going to Atlantic City . We would gamble for a few , many hours , have dinner and I ultimately learned everything about that company and they learned everything about my philosophies and how I wanted to help them grow and what we could do together . And we have a great relationship with friends to this day and what ultimately got me to a place with them was I did have value , right , whether it was a new vendor , whether it was some executive I like executive to executive alignment , where I can help be that advocate for that but I remember with this particular partner they had their first president's club as many companies do and my wife and I were invited . We didn't sponsor it , we were inviting . We were there right , we were the only ones there other than the company and I knew I knew from that time on that you know what I was doing really meant something .
Successful Channel Relationships Through Thoughtfulness and Action
Speaker 2Another good example is my team and I . We used to host different events the college casino night , that's what it was with vendors and it was great and we had some extra budget one year and we brought in a baseball player and gentlemen , scott Riffey lived in Northern Baltimore and this event was taking place in Virginia and if anyone drives around the DMV you know on an evening that could be a three hour drive , but Scott got in his car and made the trip to Virginia and he spent over 45 minutes to an hour With Brooks Robinson , his favorite basic player of all time , his idol . Now recently Brooks Robinson passed away and Scott reached out to me via Facebook , he reached out to you via text and Just told me what an impact that made where he was able to spend time with his baseball idol . Now , did that help me sell more widgets ? Yes , it did . Did it help me get a better relationship with Scott ? Absolutely . What is this more meaningful for him than it was for me ? 100% , and it was great right . So that's . That's another way that you know when I think , when I look at how do we make an impact Right with our partners , it's not always about you know . Let me go in full blast . It's about the end result that we're gonna get right and and that's where I've seen some really Successes .
Speaker 2And the last one I'm gonna share is this is something we did at at FireEye and it was an interesting time to . The pandemic was going on right and everybody was trying to figure out ways to stay in front of their partners , get in front of their partners and value the partners . But the ultra empathetic to the word we lived in right for those couple of years . So the team and I were brainstorming and actually we were talking to other Channel account managers and leaders about what people were doing that were successful . That's what we were talking with a bunch of our peers and channel channel managers and and other industry executives and we put together a favorite things box . Now I said earlier knowing and doing your two different things .
Speaker 2Everybody on the call that I was at with the , the leaders and channel managers that were on , and there was maybe 10 to 15 different people .
Speaker 2Everyone loved the idea that .
Speaker 2Everyone thought it was great .
Speaker 2But we actually executed and the team really pushed hard to do it . Where we would send , I think the first time we did it , we said about 100 boxes out , so it was a pretty happy investment . But we said we , we set out maybe I said we said a book or maybe some taxi or old bay thing is that the team members really liked and was personal to them , to a bunch of our partners , and it was pretty awesome when we got videos from partners opening up the boxes or thank you , no , it's from the box , from the partners and it was just a time where we were able to make a memory , do something different , especially a time where I think people need to come together and didn't essentially know how to do it when , when the world was in such a disarray , that's fantastic , dan , and , to your point , the little things that we do that show we're being thoughtful , that show we're putting some effort in , we're actually trying to build the relationships as people , not just as companies , but as people , trying to build relationships with those people .
Speaker 1It matters and you know , some things can be large gestures , some can be smaller gestures that not don't cost as much money , but what matters is the person , the other and feels like you know what I actually feel seen , I feel heard , I feel listened to , I feel like I'm important , and that really , really helps you develop those relationships . This has been a fantastic conversation so far . As we're coming to the end of it , I'm just curious , as we're talking , there's probably something that you wanted to get out there , a question I didn't ask you . You had a great answer for a story you wanted to tell or something you wanted to share with the audience that I just didn't give the opportunity to share . What is that parting thought you have for the audience ? Because I want to make sure that they're all getting the true value that you're bringing here , whatever comes , this relationship building that you've been focusing on today .
Speaker 2Yeah , dean , thanks . You know the key . Every team that I've worked with we've always trying to come up with like , what are the successful fundamentals of channel sales ? And and we've iterated those over over time , whether it was I was at tecno , or silence , or fire I , and now at Versa , and We've kind of come up with together as a team and I would say this is not mine , this is the team put this together and again , we've changed over time , but there's kind of nine words we like to use and when there are just words on a page , you're just words on a page , but when you actually put it into action and put them into use , then they turn into something really , really good .
Speaker 2And it's more than just about relationship building . It is about growing your business and showing value to your partners and doing what you say you're going to do . Those are really important . But the words are you know , we like to plan together , right , you want to plan with your partners . You have to over communicate with your partners , right , that's really important , and not only with your partners , but you have to over communicate with your team internally . Right , to have success , you have to have credibility , and credibility isn't just what your title is or who you're selling to . That's earned with every single person you work with . Right ? You know I said earlier about accountability , how I try to be accountable . That's a key word in terms of the success , the fundamentals of the successful channel team or channel organization right , teamwork . You know teamwork is important . One thing that I really pride myself on is being empathetic , putting yourself in other people's shoes , understanding what the account manager is going to do , understanding what your value added reseller account manager is going through , understanding what the executive is going through . And if you can really think about how , how being empathetic progresses the relationships , then you're going to be successful .
Speaker 2Two couple of other things . You know that in the fundamentals of the successful channel is goes back to being memorable . They have to differentiate . You know I know it's a podcast , but I'm a bald guy with glasses and we all look alike and there's a lot of them . So unless you're memorable , how are you going to stand out ? Right ? Cause it's really difficult to . But the last one is celebrate the wins , and I think this is one that is missed so often internally and externally . A win doesn't mean a bazillion dollar deal . A win could be you know where a reseller , took the opportunity and sold on their own . It can be a small opportunity that turned into something bigger , but whatever it is , you have to , you know , find time to bring the organizations together and celebrate .
Speaker 1All right , dan . Well , I really appreciate
Building Relationships and Personal Brands
Speaker 1your time here today . You brought a lot of great insights both me and our listeners that we can go out and start utilizing immediately . We talked about the importance of building relationships and how to do it . We discussed the idea of creating a personal brand and how that really helps you , and we also talked about how you make people feel seen and heard when we build relationships so that we can become memorable . And you also shared with us some of those really interesting and memorable experiences that you've helped create so that we can actually come up with some ideas on our own that we can go out and utilize whenever we're forming relationships ourselves .
Speaker 1So I just wanna say thank you for sharing your expertise and for those out there listening , if you think that you'd be a great guest for our show and you could share some knowledge for our listeners that we could learn from , we would love to hear from you . And if you have somebody that you've been working with throughout your course of your career maybe it's a mentor that you've had or somebody that you've worked at on a peer level where you feel like this person needs to get their voice out there , they've got something to share people can learn from . We'd love to hear from you as well . So it's been a great time today here with Dan . We'd love to hear from you all and until next time , stay safe , have fun . Good luck out to everybody and we're looking forward to seeing you on the next episode .