SalesGym Interview Series
The SalesGym Interview Series brings you fresh thinking from Sales Leaders that can help you lead, manage and train a higher performing sales team. You’ll gain insights into what top performing sales professionals are doing that are giving them their competitive advantage.
SalesGym Interview Series
Navigating Global Markets with Cultural Intelligence and Emotional Savvy
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Have you ever wondered how a family's business legacy could sculpt your professional outlook? Josephine Palm McArdle, a Director of Industry Development at North Highlands, joins us on this episode to share her professional journey, starting with her exposure to the entrepreneurial endeavors she grew up surrounded by, ultimately leading her on an adventure through television and print media, an education across the world, and influential leadership positions in several businesses spanning a variety of industries and countries.
This isn’t just an international business story either. With her experience working in and on a wide variety of businesses around the globe, particularly in her capacity as a consultant, there are several valuable lessons learned that corporate executives in and leaders can learn from. If you want to learn more about how you can run your business more effectively while listening to an intriguing career journey, this is the episode for you.
Lessons From an Entrepreneurial Consultant
Speaker 1Welcome to the Sales Gym Podcast , where we discuss topics like sales , training , human development and organizational excellence . Today we have an exciting podcast with our guests Josephine Paul-McArdle , who is currently a Director of Industry Development for the consulting company North Highlands .
Speaker 1Josie has an amazing story , which started in her home of Sweden , where she began again working with international clients as she developed as a consultant before becoming a professor at the Stockholm School of Business . She's worked internationally with clients across the world , aided by her ability to speak four languages fluently , and she's worked in industries from finance , robotics , pharmaceuticals and real estate and just about everything in between . Beyond all of those business-focused accomplishments , she's also an author and has been a finalist on the Great British Bake Off , along with publishing over 1,500 recipes in magazines across Northern Europe . I could go on for the rest of this podcast about her accomplishments , but it's time to turn the conversation over to her and give us a firsthand account of her journey and the lessons businesses can learn from an experienced , internationally focused consultant like herself . So , with all that in mind , josie , welcome to the podcast and we're really happy to have you .
Speaker 2Thank you so much . That sounded so grand . Thank you for the intro .
Speaker 1So , josie , one of the first things that you shared with me is that you come from a very entrepreneurial family , so you've grown up watching people run businesses and , with that in mind , I'm just curious how has that influenced your career path and your decision-making whenever it comes to getting into business , consulting and maybe some of the decisions you've been making as a consultant ?
Speaker 2That is such a good question and I'm not even sure I know myself . But yeah , I grew up with parents that had their own businesses , I should say , and that's just been such a huge part of my upbringing and of my life and I think that it comes with a certain mindset right being an entrepreneur and having your own business . There's just a level of grit and a level of patience and energy that comes with that and I think that's just ingrained in me as a person . So I'm not sure that I can kind of detach that from the rest of it and say this is the component , but I think growing up that way it gave me this sense of you know you can work really hard and go to where you want to go and you can change anything as long as you just put your mind to and as long as you put the energy and effort into learning what you need to know and bring that to the table .
Speaker 1Are there any core experiences or lessons that you learned while you were watching your parents run these businesses ? Because myself , personally , my dad ran a business as I was growing up , and one of the key things that I remember growing up was just this mindset that you have to do what's required . Ultimately , there's not a bunch of other people you can rely on oftentimes to make certain decisions or take certain actions . You just have to show up and get the job done , regardless of how you're feeling . That is your job , that's your responsibility , and that stuck with me for a long time . Do you have any stories or any thoughts , any ideas that have kind of stuck with you growing up and kind of watching them , that have maybe influenced your thinking ?
Speaker 2Yeah , and I can 100% resonate with what you just said , that the showing up and that there's no choice but to do what you have to do . And seeing my parents go about life that way of course inspired me . But I think other than that is also not being afraid of failure , not being afraid of saying no or being said no to because you will have so much rejection as a private business owner . There's so many times when things are not going to go your way or people are just not going to agree with you or buy your product or service or whatever it is that you're offering , and you know seeing them start from scratch .
Speaker 2And then , during the 90s , there was a financial recession in Sweden and it hit the real estate market very hard . One of their biggest companies is a real estate company and you know , looking back now , I know through what my parents have told me , they were struggling to . You know put food on the table for you know periods of time because the interest rates were sky high and it was just a really , really difficult financial time . They've gone through failures when it comes to some of their businesses and they've gotten up , dusted themselves off , gotten back in the saddle , and I think that mentality just rubs off on you Just try and go and if you fail , try again .
Speaker 1I love that . I love that . Yeah , that's that mentality , that grit , that determination that I think pretty much any business owner needs to have , especially in these tumultuous environments where things are rapidly changing and we don't often know what's coming next . And I guess with that in mind you didn't go into the family business . You ultimately ended up getting into consulting and you've had a massive career . You've been in all kinds of different places , you've been teaching in colleges , you've gotten multiple graduate degrees , you've been focused on things that actually matter to you , even outside of the business world . So how has this idea of being able to maybe take on a lot of different things that like , influence your decision making to get into consulting ? What's your mindset behind it being able to do all these different things , and how did that influence your decision to get into the consulting field ?
Speaker 2The whole you know idea of doing a lot of different things . I think that stems from my entrepreneurial soul , you know . You just there's something you want to pursue and there's something that you just feel compelled to do and you decide you do it , and I think that is a good reflection of my background in a way . I've been very much involved in my parents' business growing up and still am , you know , to a certain extent . I mean , I do consult with them every now and then and all that , but I'm not actively working and I've chosen not to for various reasons , one being I wanted to travel and see the world and do different things and then accidentally got into consulting . Actually , it was not something I pursued as oh , this is a career I really want to do .
Speaker 2It was coming back from New York . I'd been working in New York for a little bit , came back to Europe and was just looking for jobs . I was pretty young , I was like 24 or 25 and had previously been working in real estate , so I knew that part and a little bit on space utilization and warehousing management . And there was a role open for Capgemini , which is a consulting firm , and it was a headhunter that contacted me and said hey , I think this role might fit you , why don't you interview ? And so I did , and it was supposed to be like a six-month gig or something . And I'm like this is great , I want to get on my feet and travel after this again , so that'd be great . And I ended up staying for six years . So yeah , that's how I started it .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Well , six years , you probably got a lot of experience . Plus , you've added a ton of experience since then , just in all kinds of different roles . What are some maybe things that you've seen with some of these companies whenever it comes to maybe some process excellence ideas or some change management ideas ? What are some maybe misconceptions you've seen companies often make that cause them to run less than optimally ?
Speaker 2Problems are cyclical .
Speaker 2Every single company and every single industry keeps solving for the same things over and over again .
Speaker 2It's just that the environment in which they operate has changed or the requirements in order to do X , y or Z has changed , but they're constantly solving for the right things and the same things over and over again .
Speaker 2What I find even more interesting is that we solve a problem and then think that the problem is solved . We don't see the need for continuity , we don't see the need for implementation of changes . So North Highland , where I work now , is one of the leading maybe the leading change and transformation consulting firm in the US , and what we see a lot too , is that companies might look at changing . They don't necessarily know why they should change , but they've been told that they should change something and not going to the bottom of the problem and then , secondly , not spend enough time and energy on building and advancing their own capabilities and focusing on the implementation of the same to make sure that your organization is adopting to your change . Hence why you will have to redo that change fairly soon again , and I see that repeatedly , over and over and over again and it's babbling to me how we haven't gotten further in organization and management , seeing the need for that continuity and that need for continuous management of the implementation and adoption .
Speaker 1You know , with that in mind , going in and telling organizations hey , these are the changes you need to make , these are the processes you need to put in place , here's how you need to manage them . That feels like one of those things where people might push back a little bit , even if they do hire you , even if they do bring you in . So it feels like building credibility and trust in that area is obviously really important . So how do you actually start establishing that with people , where you can come in , look at somebody's job and tell them here's how you should do it differently . Here's why you should believe me , here's why you should trust me . How do you go about doing that process ? Because I know in our roles as the sales coaches working with other organizations , we have a lot of those similar struggles where we have to convince them that we actually understand what we're doing and we can help them . So I'm just kind of curious how do you go about doing that and build that credibility and trust ?
Speaker 2That is a brilliant question and I think , first and foremost , building your business relationships for a different purpose than selling something , right , I would probably be a horrible car salesperson or whatnot . I build relationships with my clients because I genuinely have an interest in this industry . I genuinely , really , really love looking at how to make improvements within organizations in the field that I'm working and I love meeting people . I really do enjoy the interpersonal connection that I get to make and I think for anyone being in that position , being a trusted thought leader is so important Making sure that , whatever relationships you're building , there's credibility to what you say . You know what . You sure that , whatever relationships you're building , there's credibility to what you say . You know what you're talking about and you're offering advice . Whether they're buying something from you or not , which is technically that's secondary the most important thing is that you show up and you have something that makes that interaction valuable for them , and if you can get to that point , your job is going to be a lot easier , because then they will also trust you when you say , hey , that point , your job is going to be a lot easier , because then they will also trust you when you say , hey , yeah , these are the things you need to improve .
Speaker 2What I think we do different at Worth Highland and I can speak so highly of the company that I work for , but it's because it really resonates with who I am as a person too but we don't go in and say , hey , here's what you need to do .
Speaker 2We go in and say , all right , so this is the landscape and these are the things that are going on right now . And having our clients really look at their own organization to figure out why are we where we're at and what is it that we're trying to solve for , and are the things we're trying to solve for that we haven't thought about and then making sure that they build their own capabilities to take care of this in the long run . We're not going in there to insert ourselves in an organization and sit there for five years and continue to do the same thing and send out a heavy bill . Right , we're there to help them grow and transform into an entity that can operate successfully doing what they're trying to do without us . That's our goal , and I think that whole chain comes with . You need to trust me as a person before you buy anything With that in mind how does your approach differ when you're working with all these different companies ?
Speaker 1right , because we're talking about a financial services firm that might need some help versus , maybe , a robotics firm , maybe versus a pharmaceutical company . I'm sure there's some principles you employ just like we do when we're working with different sales teams that are pretty consistent . However , some of our approaches are going to vary pretty dramatically based on who we're working with and what their specific needs are . So how do you approach these different industries ? Is there different ways that you go about doing it , or do you follow more or less some of the same templates and same ideas when you have these conversations ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so our company is divided into different industry teams where each industry team have experts . So I am in financial services . That's where my expertise is , that's where I have the subject matter experts that I'm working with and of course , some of our solutions can transfer between different
Global Cultural Understanding and Business Success
Speaker 2industries . But the most important thing is that we always bring the best people to the table . We are not a staff augmentation firm . We're not putting in a lot of people to do a lot of small things . We bring experts , people with huge , vast industry knowledge that can go in and really make change happen . And basically we focus on four main areas and , without sounding consultee , I'll just break it down to normal speech . So we're improving productivity of teams , we're modernizing data and technology , we build and advance capabilities , like I mentioned before , and we help implement and manage that adoption of the change . So in everyday speak , that's what we're doing .
Speaker 1Now , given that you've worked with various sectors there and obviously right now you have a specialty area where you're focusing and you bring in experts who really know different industries . What are some maybe universal truths that you've seen within organizations where , if an organization's doing X , y or Z , they're going to be successful , they're going to see some great improvements , or if an organization's doing ABC , they're going to be successful , they're going to see some great improvements , or if an organization is doing ABC , they're going to see some detrimental results . What are some maybe universal truths you've noticed as you work with various businesses that can maybe transcend industry that you think are really important for people to know about ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , first of all , like I said , the problems are cyclical . We think that we solve for them once and we don't , so that continuity is so , so , so important . The second one is focusing on the people within the organization . So a lot of organizations put these lovely labels on you know , oh , our people are the most important part of our organization . And yes , they are .
Speaker 2As long as said , people are A engaged and B doing jobs , and C feel compelled to go in the same direction as the company .
Speaker 2So they fail to take that whole body of people into consideration when it comes to making sure that they adopt to your changes , that they buy into what you're trying to do , that they're informed about where your strategic initiatives are , so that you're all driving in the right direction , and having everyone in an organization understand how their role and what they're doing is tied to that strategic objective .
Speaker 2It's a huge undertaking , it's something that requires a lot of work , but it's so important to the individual . Because if , as a person , cannot see where my daily efforts make a difference and how my daily efforts matter to the C-suite and how they matter in terms of driving this business forward , then why am I here , and that's something we see so often , both at bigger scale but also down to a team's level or individual level , where a company might have a great strategic plan and they have a great overview of where they want to go , but that has not trickled down throughout their organization and down to that individual level . And that's where you need to go and you need to consistently work on driving that . You need to consistently work on making sure that you manage that thread , you manage that idea of hey , what I am doing here matters .
Speaker 1You know . With that in mind , I'm kind of curious the role culture plays in that , not just company culture , but maybe even the local or international culture . Right , whenever I work with teams that are saying you know the Midwest and Nebraska , the types of conversations I have with them are different than the teams I speak with that are in New York City or that are in San Diego . There's different approaches people need to take with both the people that they're actually working there at the organizations and some of the clients they have if the clients are local . So with that in mind , you know you've worked internationally .
Speaker 2You grew up in Sweden you're now in America , you've worked with companies all across the globe . What do you think people should be considering whenever they're working with an organization ? That's maybe you know at'm constantly operating in a language that's not my first language in a country that is not the country I grew up in , and there's so many with me that do that exact same thing on a daily basis . But we don't always take into consideration that that requires a level of understanding of interpersonal relationships and how these work . There's a huge difference between different countries , different continents , how we conduct business , how we communicate .
Speaker 2I've gotten feedback many times that I'm very harsh and straightforward sometimes and that is 100% culturally . I want to say Swedes can be very , very direct and we go in and we talk about our business , we get it done . You know Swedes can be very , very direct and we go in and we talk about our business , we get it done . Sufficiency , you know , above all , that's what we want to do , but that may not always be the best approach in an environment where that's not the way that you conduct business .
Speaker 2So gaining understanding , even at a company level or industry level , of where are you on that cultural sort of interpersonal relationship scale , is really important and , as an organization , understanding that different parts of the world although you may have offices that all belong to the same legal entity or to the same main company , your branches may operate very differently depending on where they are and depending on what the overarching culture is . That's not a bad thing . It's a great thing . You'll have so many different types of perspectives and thoughts and solutions , but what you have to do is to make sure that all of these align and that you have an understanding of that . It will be conducted a little different in different areas .
Speaker 1You know , whenever I hear you talk about that , two distinct ideas come up . One is just knowledge understanding other cultures and how they may be different than the one you grew up in , and that could be , you know , something that's just focused on the US , if you grew up in one pocket versus another pocket , or it could be internationally , like you were speaking to there . There's another piece , though , which is the emotional intelligence . That's something that's often gained through experience . Some people just seem to have it ingrained in them . Others , they interact with a lot of different cultures , and that's how they develop a lot of this emotional intelligence and how to work with all kinds of people . And when we were talking previously , you mentioned that you got your MBA at the Holt School of Business there in San Francisco , and you know you mentioned there was a lot of different cultures interacting there , and I was curious how did that experience maybe improve your emotional intelligence and make it so you can adapt to the different cultures you're interacting with , so you can get the most out of people and yourself ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so I got my MBA in Boston and then I got my second degree in Holt , san Francisco . But yeah , we were . Our cohort was , I believe , 72 or 73 different countries represented in one room , and Holt , as a business school , is so unique . I cannot say enough good things about that school , but it's just a melting pot of people from different cultures , different countries , speak in different languages , different backgrounds , and everyone has the same goal , and that is of getting your degree .
Speaker 2You have to collaborate in teams throughout your master's with people that have such different views , different experiences , language barriers what have you ? And you just got to make it work . Not only does that open your eyes to how set you are in your own ways , um and , and how little your universe is that you've built your perceptions around , but it also equips you with some kind of understanding that a the world does not look the way you think it looks . That is only from your little view in your corner . And second , you learn how to cooperate with basically anyone about anything , whether you agree or not , whether you stand left , right , center up down . You just have to make things work because you have a common goal , and that's where that whole strategic view that I just mentioned within organizations come up too .
Speaker 2If you have a common goal , even if you have different perspectives or different thoughts on how to get there , that common goal is what needs to be your guiding light within that relationship building and how you get to your solution . But it taught me so much and I am so humble . I'm so humbled by all the different stories that I've learned about people and their backgrounds and what they've been through , and it just gave me the richest experience I could ever have had getting my degrees . So , yeah , if anyone's out there just looking to get their MBA , check them out . I mean , it's a huge investment , regardless of what school you go to . But the reward you get , other than the paper , it's unheard of . You can't really compare that to anything else .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's a really intriguing experience that you just talked about there . That's a ton of different cultures and just a little classroom . That's really interesting . I'm sure there's a lot of interesting lessons learned there . Let's talk about the other end of that , right . You talked about your experience as a student . Let's talk about as a professor . One of the things you're obviously trying to do when you're educating people is there may be some core skills or mindsets that stand out for you that you want to ensure you impart on your students . So whenever we're working with people , one of the big things we're trying to do is that , stephen Covey quote you seek to first understand and then you seek to be understood after , and that's one of the big ideas or mindsets we want to kind of ingrain in the people we work with . So whenever you were in that role as a professor and you're working with students , what are maybe some key skills or mindsets that you wanted to make sure that you imparted on them , that they could walk away with and that you knew would help them for life ?
Speaker 2My number one is trying to somehow inspire my students to have a growth mindset , understanding that there's always room for growth , understanding that there's always a different opinion , understanding that there's always more to know about something . That will just open you up to opportunity , it will open you up to knowledge , it will open you up to development . That's number one . Number two is to try as much as I can to equip the students with the applicability of theory , not just theory , because anyone can get theory .
Speaker 2We can all read textbook , but textbook is so different than real life . So bringing real life examples of how you apply a theory and what that would look like is to me a lot more important than oh , I need to know you know this pyramid built by Professor X or this model built by Professor Y , because rarely in your real working life are you going to bring up you know whatever you know X person's model and talk about how that framework works . No , you're going to talk about how you get to the solution . So that to me has been sort of how I teach and making my students work ready from day one , making them able to go in . And of course , you're not fully equipped just because you graduate , but you at least know how to do what you've learned , not just what you learned , if that makes sense .
Speaker 1Yeah , it does make sense . It's the difference between having knowledge and having working knowledge you can actually do something with and accomplish something with . And I think that's the difference between somebody who feels like they have some knowledge in their heads versus somebody who feels like they're empowered and they actually have some tools that they learned in their education they can go out and do something productive with . And whenever it comes to doing something productive , there's definitely a difference between maybe the way we go about working internally on projects and initiatives that we want to kick off and experiment with , versus when we're working externally whenever a client pays us , and with that in mind , I'm kind of curious what your experience has been with that . Whenever it comes to focusing on internally focused projects , where you're trying to develop something within an organization or try something out , versus maybe the mindset or mentality you would take to working with a client , how that might be different , I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that one .
Speaker 2So I've been blessed with being able to work in roles where I can solve problems internally and externally , which has been great
Internal Process Excellence and Client Expectations
Speaker 2. There's a lot of similarities , of course , in how you do things . I mean process excellence is process excellence , and doing things you know the right way . There's a lot of similarities , of course , in how you do things . I mean process excellence is process excellence , and doing things you know the right way . There's no right way , but you know , improving on things looks quite the same . However , doing it internally , there's a little bit more wiggle room in terms of trying to be bold and do something new and creative , and you might fail , which you learn a lot from . Failure is not a bad thing . Wouldn't do that with clients , though . When it comes to clients , you go in and you have to excel in every single aspect of what you are delivering , and both of these experiences boil down to A processes and ways you go about things are important . As much as we would love to wing it , winging it is not necessarily the best way to do things , but it has taught me a lot about my own process excellence , my own ways of doing things .
Speaker 2How do I solve a problem ? Whether that is internal or external . It has sort of built its own framework of how I go about it and I've been just so lucky that I've been able to apply that to so many different clients and industries throughout my career so far that it's been invaluable . But I think , just to kind of put a bow on it , what you do internally has to be more or less you have to be able to implement that externally . If you wouldn't go to a client with it . What you do internally has to be more or less you have to be able to implement that externally . If you wouldn't go to a client with it , you shouldn't do it internally either . You have to think about it with the same type of approach . This needs to be the best version of how we can do this or don't do it .
Speaker 1That's a good idea to keep in mind . If you wouldn't do this with a client , maybe it's a little bit bold to be doing it with a client initially , but if the best version of that wouldn't work with a client , why would you do it internally ? That makes a lot of sense . That's something I'm going to keep in mind as we're running our business moving forward With that in mind . You did mention previously a lot of the problems that you're seeing whenever you do work with consulting clients . They tend to be cyclical problems or recurring problems that you notice happen in cycles . What are some maybe common mistakes you see businesses make or misconceptions they have about how they deal with these problems ? That you think makes these things recurring issues that come up again and again , maybe in a different form down the road .
Speaker 2Yeah , and again , this is different in different industries , of course , but I think we touched on it a little bit before . But number one is not thinking that the adoption and implementation is important , because that is , once you figure out what you're doing and why you're changing or solving for a problem . Making sure that everyone's on board and adopting is so important and that is a consistent work is so important , and that is a consistent work . It's not something you do once . You have to continue to make sure that you just foster an environment of driving adoption , and that is one thing I definitely see a
Empowerment and Cultural Excellence in Business
Speaker 2lot .
Speaker 2Then , two , not looking at why they're trying to change something , or is there something they need to change that they haven't thought of ? That is the underlying cause of why these problems keep occurring . It's like putting a Band-Aid on a wound when it actually needs stitches . So look at what is the root cause of what's going on and what is it that you need to change to make sure , going forward , your changes are not as big or as vast as they are right now , and that next time you need to change , you don't need to reinvent the wheel . So that's definitely something I would encourage everyone to look at whether it's an internal small problem or a big enterprise problem . Just look at what is it that we're really trying to solve for here , and then three there's . You know , specifically in financial , in the financial industry , the changing climate of everything from regulatory like the regulatory environment in which they operate to the tech environment in which they operate is constantly changing . So being able to adapt to these changes without having to redo your whole model or your whole program for what you're doing is key , and that requires some transformation , agility and it requires knowledge in terms of how do we best adapt to what's going on , what things can we focus on , what things can we basically put to the side and care about later . But having that mindset is really important and making sure that the productivity of the teams that you have is high .
Speaker 2So whenever you need to pivot , you have to think in a way that helps your organization move quickly . So think of it , as you know , titanic going towards the iceberg right . If it's a huge machinery and you need to quickly steer left or right , even if you turn it , the wheel , all the way to the left , it's going to take a very long time before you see that turn the way to the left . It's going to take a very long time before you see that turn and for me it's worked with startups .
Speaker 2I think one of the things that startups are good at , even though they grow quickly , you know , from being a little I don't know wooden vessel with two oars on it to becoming a huge ship . It may not look like a ship , it may not look , you know , fancy as one of the you know cruising lines and whatnot , but it does . But it does do the job right and they are very good at navigating icy waters , they're very good at pivoting quickly , and I think big organizations can really learn from that and trying to at least work towards becoming more agile , becoming more flexible in the reaction to the external changes of your environment flexible in the reaction to the external changes of your environment .
Speaker 1The way you brought that up got me thinking just about the culture and the ability to enact change and actually listen to other people . Just thinking back to whenever I was in the Marine Corps flying in helicopters , one of the things that was kind of a constant in the culture that was much different than all other parts of the Marine Corps was the person with the most situational awareness in the helicopter . They were in charge of what was going to be happening in there . So even if the most junior person in the helicopter spoke up and said , hey , this is something that's going wrong , we need to make this adjustment , everybody would listen , they'd make adjustments , they'd make changes and then we'd work together as a crew to figure out how to best go about things and be productive afterwards .
Speaker 1And this culture that was kind of ingrained in us for our own good , to make sure that we didn't crash , we didn't run into issues was essentially listen to what other people have to say , especially if they know something you don't , it could be useful for you . Now , that's not a really micro level , right , just a small helicopter crew . But when you think of a macro level and maybe the cultures that you've seen to be very useful for businesses to take on . It could be an idea of being nimble like that . It could be kind of talking about process excellence . What are some things that you've noticed culturally within businesses that are very successful that maybe we could learn from ?
Speaker 2I loved your example , by the way , of trying to listen to the person with the best knowledge at the moment .
Speaker 2I think so many organizations can learn from that Understanding that just because you are very knowledgeable in one area doesn't mean that you are in another .
Speaker 2Giving your teams and the individuals in your organization the authority to drive change , the authority to speak up and the authority to offer perspective is so valuable . And the authority to offer perspective is so valuable . There might be resources within your organizations that you don't know you have . There might be experiences and expertise within your organization that you don't know you have because someone is hired into a certain role and to do whatever they're supposed to do within a pretty tight operating envelope , but they might have so much more experience that lies outside of that . So empowering your teams to really speak up and to feel comfortable enough to bring that up to their leaders is , if not , the most important thing . One of the most important things when building teams is enable them to have that ingrained in them that if I see something , if I have an idea , if I know that this can be done better , I should let others know that we should look at it this way so we're not stuck in our old ways and doing things repetitively , just inventing the wheel over and over again .
Speaker 1I really like that . You touched on that , this idea of like not only should you have an open culture where you learn , learn and listen from people , but given the advice that leaders need to empower the people in the organization to make those changes , obviously with supervision , ensuring things aren't going off the rails , but , you know , when they hear a good idea , they hear something encouraging people to pursue that . That's how you actually change the culture and you create that culture of excellence and that nimble approach to business . I think we could all do a little bit better at that in all facets of our life , and I guess something else I'm curious about is that felt like some pretty specific advice that I don't think I've heard very often . What other less common pieces of advice do you have for people ? Because you've seen a lot of businesses doing a lot of unique things . What are some maybe really unique things you've seen businesses do where you feel like that set them apart and that either was culturally or operationally an advantage that other businesses can learn from ?
Speaker 2I think I have so many , depending on what industry we're talking about . But definitely the authority and the empowerment of people should be at the heart of every organization , regardless of what they're doing , regardless of what industry they're in . Having an organization where you blend teams and have your more junior roles often or at least as often as possible interact with your more senior roles and decision makers , not only to see what they do but to learn from them . So I always try to distinguish between mentorship and apprenticeships , if you will , and having senior leaders really take you into situations where you solve for problems and show you the real world examples of what they're doing on a daily basis . Not only is that inspiring , but it's really teaching the younger generation how to do things and they can learn so much from somebody that has 20 , 30 , 40 years of experience within whatever role they have , has 20 , 30 , 40 years of experience within whatever role they have , and having that flexibility in an organization that you can take on that time .
Speaker 2I know that not everybody can , but try to at least have that visibility Because again , it also ties back to what we touched on early in the podcast . Making sure that somebody knows what they're doing is tied to the strategic objectives of the company . The closer you get to working with leaders whose everyday life is about that strategic objective just ties that picture together so much better , and it's a way for an individual to also advance their career knowing what the next step looks like , knowing what their challenges are , knowing how that job looks and feels and what the execution may look like , and learning how to show up as that person before they're even there .
Speaker 1You know , one of the last things I'm curious about is you know you're a published author , you've written a ton of articles , you've been on the Creek British Bake Off . You've been a finalist on that show . You've had all kinds of crazy , really interesting experiences . And I'm just curious how those types of experiences that aren't purely focused in just the professional business world , how they maybe influence your mindset , either personally or professionally , and what kind of benefits you've gotten from that .
Speaker 2So one thing that I talk a lot about in some of my articles and also in my upcoming book which is still a little bit of a secret , but it's a co-authored book by a really senior leader within the financial industry who is a mentor of mine and really excited about that . Happy to come back and talk about that another time . But one of the things that I bring up there is sort of the perfectionist mindset , which it sounds really bad , but trying to do things almost perfect almost all the time . And again that sounds like putting a lot of pressure . But it's letting go of the thought of good enough . I don't think that good enough is a good mindset . Good enough teaches us that all right as long as we get it across the line . You know we're supposed to build a red car , it's pink and it's a tractor , but it rolls . You know that's not going to solve problems long term . You have to think about it as okay . If I can do it as good as I possibly can up until the point where it needs to get done , then that's great . So it's an 80-20 type of thing . If you do it , you know 80% right , it's great , and then the 20% that wasn't great . Bring those back with you to the next project and see , okay , what was it that didn't go well last time , that I can learn how to perfect now . And if these out of these 20% , that little 20% chunk , if 80% of that is perfect , the next time you've learned a ton and just thinking about every single process , big or small , do it to the most perfect extent you can .
Speaker 2Again , I'm not saying you should , you know , sit it up 24 , seven and just perfect everything and never let go , because we all have deadlines and we all have things that need to happen quickly . But let go of the good enough mindset . I don't think that that is fostering a mindset that really helps you . Growth mindset is all about getting better , getting bigger , getting great , learn more , right . So we shouldn't think about oh , I've learned enough , I don't need to know more . You should always be hungry to learn more . You should always be hungry to learn better . So your mindset should constantly be do more , do better without exhausting yourself . And do more , do better applies to your sleep and your rest and your fitness as well .
Speaker 1Well , that's a really good point to touch on and I guess I'll open it up the floor for you on any final thoughts you have on here . This could be advice for somebody looking to get into consulting , it could be some business advice for somebody who's trying to manage or run their company , or it could be just something completely different , focusing on personal life and personal development . Whatever it is that you feel like you wanted to get off your chest on this podcast , where I just wasn't asking the right question and opening up that conversation for you . What is it you would like to leave people with as kind of your parting thoughts on something they should really be thinking about as they're going about their day ?
Speaker 2Wow , that's a lot to unpack . No , I think you I mean you've asked me so many questions and I feel so privileged that I get to be here and you know , talk about the things that I'm really passionate about no , I think the you know , just to boil everything down to kind of one takeaway is for someone who is looking to get into consulting is , you know , try taking the first step . That's with anything . I mean , I was not a good baker before I started baking . I was not a good author before I started writing . You have to start somewhere .
Speaker 2So , have that leap of faith and , again , keep that growth mindset .
Speaker 2And , whatever you're trying to do , try to be a little better every day , try to learn a little more every day , try to just , you know , do that extra percent that you didn't do the day before . You can grow in any direction , you can grow in any industry , as long as that is the mindset that you put on . You don't have to feel like you go into something knowing everything , because none of us will . And lastly , I think listen to leaders , to peers , to people around you . Learn from them , learn from others that have walked the path you're looking to walk , Connect with people on that . It's fine to reach out to someone on LinkedIn that you don't know , because they have a really interesting career and you want to hear about it . Most people are very open to sharing and talking about how they got there and connecting you with others that may help you on the way . So again , just try to listen and learn from the environment and just be a little bit better every day . You can probably do absolutely anything you want to do in life .
Speaker 1Awesome . What a great way to end that Very inspiring there . Josie . Well , thank you so much for sharing your journey and these insights with us today . I feel like we talked about a huge variety of subjects and we could have talked for another few hours if it was up to me . There's so many different things that we could touch on and we're going to have to have you back whenever you publish your latest book so we can have a conversation about that book and just continue tapping your mind for really useful insights that you know , business management people , business owners and just people who are aspiring to be consultants can learn along the way .
Speaker 1And for those listeners out there who are hearing our podcast and they're thinking you know what ? I've got something , that I've got something to add , I have something interesting to say . Or if you know a leader who you think has something really interesting that the world needs to hear , please reach out to us . We'd love to hear from you . And until next time , everybody , stay safe , have fun , good luck out there , and we're looking forward to seeing you on the next episode .