Stimulants, Schools, and the Scam You Never Saw Coming with Sheila Matthews Co-Founder AbleChild.org

Have you ever wondered why schools seem so quick to suggest ADHD medication for children who don't sit still? The truth behind this practice is more disturbing than most parents realize.

Sheila Matthews never expected a single school meeting about her seven-year-old son would launch her into a two-decade fight against the psychiatric labeling and drugging of children. After witnessing another mother testify before Congress about the devastating effects of school-mandated medication, Matthews made a bold decision to refuse an ADHD diagnosis for her own child. This choice led her to co-found AbleChild.org, a national nonprofit organization that has successfully pushed for legislative changes protecting parents' rights to make informed decisions about their children's mental health care.

Matthews pulls back the curtain on how ADHD diagnoses originated not from scientific discovery but from pharmaceutical marketing campaigns in the 1970s. She explains how subjective checklists created by drug companies have replaced proper medical evaluation, and how schools without medical authority pressure parents into medication pathways. Most shocking is her revelation that many children labeled with ADHD are actually gifted, creative thinkers whose natural traits are being pathologized for profit.

The conversation takes a darker turn when Matthews discusses her organization's groundbreaking work to require testing for psychiatric medications in cases of violence and mass shootings – information currently omitted from most investigations. She describes how the industry manipulates data to hide potential connections between these medications and harmful behaviors, while simultaneously promoting narratives that untreated ADHD leads to negative outcomes.

Whether you're a parent facing pressure from your child's school, an educator questioning current practices, or someone concerned about the broader implications of medicating young minds, this episode provides crucial information about alternatives to psychiatric drugs and the importance of informed consent. Don't miss this eye-opening discussion that challenges everything you thought you knew about childhood behavioral disorders. Check out AbleChild.org to learn more and join the movement for transparency and true informed consent.

Chapters

• 0:23 Standing Up Against Child Psychiatric Labeling
• 1:48 Sheila's Personal Battle With School System
• 7:15 Origins of ADHD and Pharmaceutical Influence
• 11:00 Checklists: The Gateway to Medication
• 17:01 Psychiatric Drugs and Violence Connection
• 28:25 Fighting for True Informed Consent
• 37:14 Gifted Children Mislabeled as Disordered
• 43:37 Medication-Free Alternatives and Hope

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

you've been gaslit into believing that labeling your child with ADHD and getting them on psych meds is the best treatment for them. We are your whistleblowing shrinks, dr Tara Lynn and therapist Jen, and this is the gaslit truth podcast. Today we have a special guest, sheila Matthews. Sheila is the co-founder of ableChildorg, a national nonprofit organization dedicated to ensuring that parents and children are fully informed about the risks associated with psychiatric labeling and drugging in the public school system. The first mother to successfully testify for the passage of a state law in Connecticut that prohibits school personnel from recommending psychotropic drugs to parents, her advocacy has extended nationwide, where she has worked to remove dangerous antidepressants from use on children in state care and has pushed for greater transparency and accountability from both the pharmaceutical industry and government agencies. Welcome, sheila to the show. You're a rock star. Oh my gosh, you're my spirit animal. Right now, I'm just like holy man.

Speaker 2: 1:19

Wow. It's been a journey, ladies, oh my goodness.

Speaker 3: 1:24

Yeah, we are so curious to hear a little bit more about that journey. For those of you that are listening, sheila's website ablechildorg even if you're here watching on YouTube, she's got that right in her name title there. Make sure that you guys check that out. We actually went to that and we pulled a little more of your bio out, because what Sheila had given us was just one little line in our Google form. She filled out and we're looking at the website going holy shit.

Speaker 3: 1:51

Nope, this is going in there and this is going in there and this is going in there. So you guys have to check it out, if you haven't already. So we know, sheila, there is a story behind this for you. There is a start for you. Let's start there, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Well, I'm a mom, I have two sons, and at the time my son was seven and I was living in New Canaan, connecticut, a pretty affluent town, and I was getting ready for a meeting with my school and the night before I turned on C-SPAN and I saw another mother testifying before Congress how her school had said you need to put your son on. It was Paxil, I believe that her son was put on. You have to do this in order for him to attend school. She didn't recognize her son any longer and she drove around the parking lot and saw him like over in the corner, like shuffling his feet, and when I heard her testify I was like, oh my God, tomorrow morning I'm going into my school and they're going to be telling me the same thing, because they had already given me pamphlets about this ADHD label. And so I called her up. I called Congress, I got her number and I was like you don't know me, but I'm dealing with the same thing right now and I don't know what to do. And she said you know what, I'll walk you through this, but do me a favor, when you go to school, tell them that you don't believe ADHD.

Speaker 2: 3:27

And I was like all right. I mean, I had nothing else to lose because I didn't want to put my son, who was very thin and young, seven on these powerful drugs. So that's how my story started with Patti Weathers and she's the co-founder. We bonded that day. I went to the meeting and I said I don't believe in ADHD and they did not know what to do with me and so I went towards a different avenue. I went to tutoring. I spent my own money, kind of homeschooling him on the side, and then when he would have problems at school I would say, call me and I'll go pick him up. And I know a lot of parents don't have that luxury to do that. So we decided to form Able Child.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Oh my gosh, I'm in awe because I needed you back in 2007,. Probably, no, probably eight, something like that. Anyway, I'm just in awe because Jen and I have very similar stories actually still, and Jen is operating in that framework in 2025 with her kids, right. So, and I did it way back when same thing I just didn't have the the balls that you did.

Speaker 2: 4:52

I don't know where that came from. I think, seeing Patty, I just called Congress.

Speaker 3: 4:56

I love it Right Like.

Speaker 1: 4:58

I didn't know who to call. I had no idea who to call or what to do.

Speaker 3: 5:02

I don't know. Is that, is that the phone number address? I don't know. I love it, sheila, where you're just like. Well then, this is what I did.

Speaker 2: 5:09

I did that because I saw her and I remember her like face and her like in front of this congressman saying I don't believe in ADHD, and this is what happened to me. And I was like, oh my God, and this is what happened to me. And I was like, oh my God, like I need to speak to this woman. And yeah, it was kind of bold of me to do. It was a God to do with us.

Speaker 1: 5:55

You know, I don't understand where schools got their hands in mental health so deeply. I don't even understand where that came from the idea because, like you, I did go, I did sit down and I was told take your child to the pediatrician and get them on medication. I was told that and I said I will absolutely not do that and you don't know who you're talking to. And that was it. And, just like you, then I pulled in all these supports and I keep telling people you, then I pulled in all these supports and I keep telling people the school isn't the end, all be all for your child, like it is not everything. But I, I sit back and I think where in the world did school become the driving force for mental health care or for diagnosing or for pointing out your child is, you know, mentally ill? You know this because, in effect, if you say ADHD, like you're saying this child is mentally ill, um, I do. You do you know where that came from? Do you have any, any insight into this?

Speaker 1: 6:58

or how they're.

Speaker 2: 6:59

Yes, yes yes, I do, because I researched it and basically it started out in the 1970s and it was a carve out in the smallest state in the country, which was Rhode Island, and it was sponsored by Siba Gai Ghi, which was a drug company. So what they did was they convinced a small school system, through Bradley Hospital in Rhode Island, to start diagnosing these children with attention deficit disorder, and then it quickly spread throughout the country. So it was a lobbying effort through the pharmaceutical companies, and what they did was they were able to go to the lawmakers and convince them that well, the reason why these kids aren't learning is because they have a lack of attention. And then they lobbied to do a small experiment in the 1970s and it's documented through presidential libraries.

Speaker 2: 8:13

Able Child and our staff have gone through where it came from, but that's how it started. So it was voted in by psychiatrists. There's no such thing. It's not like your child has a deficiency of Ritalin or a deficiency of these pharmaceutical drugs in their body. It's. It was. Here's a list of behaviors and based on these behaviors we as psychiatrists decided that this is a disorder called ADHD. I had no idea, like when I called Patty that night, I had no idea that I was stepping into this vortex of corruption. Right, no idea, right.

Speaker 3: 8:59

Yeah, yeah, right, and you're so I'm curious to know. Yeah, right, and you're so I'm curious to know, can you tie in a little bit is where? Where did the checklists come into play within this Sheila Cause? Even on your website you guys talk real just briefly about that, and Terry and I have this is like one of the hills we die on right, as as therapists and people who, and also like we do assessments within our practices, psych assessments for people, and we've talked about these checklists and how unhelpful they are and how quickly they label and then lead to a prescription, especially for children. Tell us, can you tell us just a little bit about these checklists?

Speaker 2: 9:46

Yeah, sure. So I didn't know that I was part of the process of labeling my son as mentally ill. So the teacher has a checklist, the school psychologist has the checklist and then you as a parent are given the checklist and I can remember some of the questions was you know, does your son not listen? I'm like, well, he's seven? Okay, yeah, he doesn't listen. You know, does he get up from his seat? That was one of the teacher's checklists. Yeah, he gets up, you know. So a combination of me filling this checklist out, the teacher filling the checklist out, combination of me filling this checklist out, the teacher filling the checklist out and the school psychologist based on that, they were like, yep, your son has this. And you know, then I was handed pamphlets of you know, one drug might not work you, you should try another one, you know, but this is the best, um, this is the best treatment for this ailment that your child has, which you're blown.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Informed consent regarding these drugs and this industry is that you're not being told that it's subjective and your child grows. I mean, over time, behaviors change. It's so subjective, it's so flexible that anybody can be diagnosed as mentally ill. So it's a huge industry. It's definitely embedded in our educational system and it's growing. It's not? You know? I wish I could say hey guys, you know we solved the problem. You know there's no more ADHD. And you know we solved the problem. You know there's no more ADHD and you know we're not going to be drugging the kids. No, no, no. This is a huge industry that has their grips so deep into the system. That's um, not just one woman or two women, two moms are going to solve this. This has to be an awakening on a level across the board, because the children. What we're doing is we're medicating generations and the industry just benefits constantly off of it. You know, it's quite sad.

Speaker 1: 12:28

It's very sad, and so your mission is if I'm getting this right is to not have those pamphlets in schools anymore, to really to not talk about it, or what is the mission within the school exactly? Really great question.

Speaker 2: 12:46

We're into informed consent. So if a child first of all, they should not be diagnosing children with mental illnesses in schools. These are teachers, they're not doctors. Your child could have other ailments, you know. Your child could have a vision problem, a dental problem, an actual physical autoimmune issues. Right.

Speaker 3: 13:08

Like yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:10

So the misdiagnosis is so overwhelming. But our mission is to look. If you're going to do this, which they clearly still want to do diagnose these children you have to tell the parents that it's subjective, that the recommended drugs are very powerful and dangerous and addictive. So if you tell the parent all this and they still want to do the checklist, well, that's on the parent and they still want to do the checklist, well, that's on the parent, you know. So we're not looking to ban anything. We're not looking to pull these checklists.

Speaker 2: 13:56

I mean, I think it's fraud, 100% fraud, to do a checklist on a child and make a mom feel that her child suffers from something they cannot do a blood test on a brain scan on nothing. So that's a crime against your child. But if they're going to do that, then they have to be honest about it, that it was voted in by a psychiatrist that these drugs are not a cure, that these drugs are not a cure, that they lead to addiction, they lead to homelessness, they lead down such a dark path that you have a hard time getting off of these drugs.

Speaker 1: 14:36

This is a point that is argued incessantly that if you don't medicate an ADHD child, they're more likely to have addictions, they're more likely to be homeless, they're more likely to not be a well-adjusted adult. These are the things You're saying. The opposite, you're saying that the research actually does show that when you medicate, the chances of addiction are higher. When you medicate, the chances of homelessness are higher. So that's interesting. The chances of homelessness are higher. So that's interesting. I'd like for you to talk about that a little more, if you're willing to do that, because it's right, against everything that people are. The general consensus right? Yes.

Speaker 2: 15:17

So the Berkeley study is a very famous study that parents should be given and that says that these are gateway drugs to addiction. That's what that entire Berkeley study said. They don't tell the public about that. So this study was done over a long period of time where they looked and they evaluated, and, yes, they are addictive. Also, you could just look at the DEA. The DEA classifies methylphenidate, which is Ritalin, as like cocaine. So this is just facts that they don't have.

Speaker 2: 15:59

On their side, the industry, the medical model of psychiatry, makes claims which are not true. And then the worst part of this entire thing is the government has allowed them to gather the data. To you know, in order to get funding, you need to have positive outcomes. To you know, in order to get funding, you need to have positive outcomes. But when you have the same industry that's drugging the child, collecting the data and then washing the data, like and what I mean by that is one category that is left out is when it comes to violence, when it comes to doing criminal, like how these drugs affect the child, they leave out the category of psychotropic drugs. So, like in death investigations, they'll say there's illegal drugs, you know, like heroin, but they will not have a category that says this person was given psychiatric drugs, so they're tainting the data. I don't believe anything the psychiatric industry says. I think that they are not only liars. The facts are on our side, but the money and power is on their side. That's just the reality of it.

Speaker 1: 17:24

So you're saying when something violent happens, like when in the news, like a shooting or whatever, they're only looking at the illegal substances that might be in the body.

Speaker 1: 17:35

And I'm going to make a quick argument here too I don't know what the data says on this, but this is like my theory of this, right?

Speaker 1: 17:44

So if they're not even looking at prescribed medication, they're not reporting that. And I would argue that they need to look at that, not only in their system currently, but having been on these things historically, because what we know is just because it's cleared your body doesn't mean it's cleared your brain, and people struggle in these spaces for years after they are off psychiatric medications. So I think even that information is relevant when we're studying these violent circumstances, right? So not just what's here now, but what has influenced the brain and the brain development and all of these things historically for that person. I think that's relevant. But again, just like you said, they're not going to look at that because it's the fox watching the hen house, right? Like we have to protect our own interests, interests here rather than the interests of the pub. So that would be a hard thing thing for anybody to study, um, but I think it's relevant knowing, knowing what we know about akathisia withdrawal, and you know just as a me.

Speaker 2: 19:01

So well, you're right on point there. And Able Child passed a landmark piece of legislation in Tennessee where it is required now in a mass shooting that the therapeutic level of psychiatric drugs are tested on the deceased person. And think about that. They have been bypassing the therapeutic level. So if you're being treated with psychiatric drugs, they're not going to test for a therapeutic level because they're like, well, they're receiving those drugs for therapy, so they get to not even have that in the category.

Speaker 3: 20:49

Sure yeah, it's prescribed, it's legal, they're taking it as prescribed, like there's all these assumptions that are being made right, so why test that?

Speaker 2: 21:00

Right. So we fought really hard to get this new language in the testing of the deceased, you know. So then we're moving to Wyoming, and in Wyoming we're trying to make that even stronger, because the definition of a mass killing is, I think four or more people have to die in order to do this testing. So we would like to make it well. If anybody commits a crime, what are they on? I mean, we do it for alcohol, we do it for DWI. You're impaired Right now. We've written so many different articles on so many different industries because we, literally in this country, are drugging everyone. Our organization started focusing on children and the drugging of children in public schools, but we come to find that pilots are allowed to be treated with antidepressants.

Speaker 1: 22:05

And now they just changed that again. They they from what I know they didn't used to be, and now they are lifting that and that scares the crap out of me actually.

Speaker 2: 22:16

Exactly so. You know, do you? And, and our whole mission is informed consent. So do you have the right to know that your pilot is being treated for depression and is on a mind altering drug? What about your surgeon? I mean it's, it's everywhere. So I think that you know shows like yours, really discussing this issue, really benefits the public, because it is, um, it's devastating to our society, where the people that are actually doing the drugging, calling themselves experts and being tremendously funded by the government, are, are, um, creating these lies. You know it's. It's just, it's really quite disgusting. You know it's. It's such corruption, it's really disgusting. It's such corruption. It's a humanitarian crisis as far as I'm concerned children okay, and even as adults.

Speaker 3: 23:14

Okay, the ease at which a child, a small child, a seven-year-old, for example, can be put on a stimulant for ADD or ADHD, okay, there isn't a significant amount of work and I'm going to just use that's my word put into getting a kid to a space where they are diagnosed with this and given this medication. So for parents that are out there right now and if you have went through this with your child, you know this process there are checklists that are given to the teacher, to the counselor. It goes home, like the Vanderbilt, for example, is one that more recently I've done some testing cases on for kids that were diagnosed very young based off these checklists. But it's not as though there is a process that then happens where, okay, now we're going to put you with a counselor or we're going to put you with a mental health professional. We're really going to do some more assessments, we're going to sit down, maybe we need to do some more testing, maybe there needs to be six months to a year of doing some counseling with someone and talking through some of these things. Let's get a really in-depth medical history, all that stuff that doesn't happen.

Speaker 3: 24:36

These are the checklists. The school says, yeah, you really need to get to see your pediatrician. Now, here's where it's at. That pediatrician meets with a child once I mean it's not like there are tons of appointments meets with that child once diagnoses. That child says, oh, we did these checklists which, by the way, everybody these checklists are not meant as diagnostic tools and yet they are used as diagnostic tools. There is not a shit ton of science behind this, a longevity behind this. They are checklists, everybody.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Well, let's just add in that the checklists most of them are created by big pharma.

Speaker 3: 25:14

They are, and I was doing some research before this show because I was trying to dig in the Vanderbilt and look up the individual that created the Vanderbilt, mark Walreck. Because I was trying to, because I'm like I bet you there's ties in it. I went for about 45 minutes. I'm like, okay, I can't find it. So I need to stop digging for something. Maybe this guy's legit, I don't know. Right, I don't know where he got all of his kickbacks from, but.

Speaker 3: 25:34

But then you go to the doctor, right, and the diagnosis is given, the medications are started. There isn't a whole bunch of intervention in between. Right, we're not doing blood tests, we're not looking at medical history, we're not doing brain scans, we're all these things right. It's no different, though, than even as an adult. So you would think for our kids we would do this a little different, but we don't. It's the same for an adult. You go in, you have your appointment, you get your 20 minutes. If you're lucky, you have your symptoms, that the prescription is given. So I think it's important to point that out, because, for people who maybe don't understand this process or have never went through this with their kids, there isn't a ton of work, steps, science that goes into. Here's the label, here's the med, it's a checklist. It's kind of like when you're an adult. It's no different, right, you go in and you have a checklist given to you and we're diagnosed.

Speaker 1: 26:28

I feel like the conversation around it has changed a little bit too, because I don't remember back in the day, going through this with my kid, that it was called a neurological disorder. It's now you hear that all over again. It's a neurological disorder, it's neurological, you were born with it. It was neurological, you were born with it. It was, you know, neurological. And I just go well, then prove it.

Speaker 3: 26:49

Like then, if it's neurological, then every child, as far as their diagnoses and medicating, you need to prove that it is neurological Go get David Amen a call go get your kid at Amen Clinics get their brain scanned and then do it a year later and see what it looks like, see if there's deficiencies, because you can't, you can't, they're also not targeting women.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Women are the next target. Menopausal, perimenopausal menopausal women are the next ADHD target and all these women are coming on going. Now I know why I felt like this my entire life and I'm like I've had a neurological condition this whole time and I'm like, but you haven't, you're just in menopause, like you know, like yeah, it's, they're shifting target and you can tell whenever you know advertisements come on and they shift to target. You know the target audience, you know that they're moving to the next thing. And like you, sheila, I was sitting in there early on in my career in a principal's office getting yelled at by multiple staff to get my kid to the pediatrician and get them medicated. And I left that meeting thinking what if people came in here and they weren't as obstinate as me? You know I didn't know a lot about it, but I knew that one thing that this was not going to happen. I knew that going into it because I had a feeling right and I was like that's not going to happen for him.

Speaker 1: 28:23

And, by the way, fast forward years later. He talks to me now. He's in his mid twenties and well-adjusted college graduate, employed, all the things right, never medicated, and he goes thank you for not medicating me, mom, and I was like you're welcome. You're welcome Cause it could have been that easy, right.

Speaker 1: 28:44

And then we were on a cascade of psychiatric medications along with uh diagnoses that could impair some uh work that he was looking at right or getting into the military. Jen's done things for getting into the military, getting into federal government work. They ask you about all that stuff and they make you produce those diagnostic paperwork Because he was applying and we were looking and I went, oh my God, it pops up right here, even though it says we won't really hold this against you, but you need to check all the boxes and we might request all your files, by the way. And I'm like what in the world is happening? I don't think parents realize that what you do when they're seven can impact them when they're 25. I don't think that there is that realization at all in any way, because once you get these diagnoses, they don't just fall off, you know they are somewhere.

Speaker 3: 29:41

That's part of the informed consent piece as well.

Speaker 1: 29:43

And.

Speaker 3: 29:43

I'm curious to know for you, sheila, what are the things that you've learned along the way right, because you fell into this like corrupt vortex, that you had no clue right was going to happen, Like this. One phone call led to right, led to where you're at here. You had no idea. I'm curious to know what are the pieces regarding informed consent that maybe shocked you the most, or the things that you learned as you started to jump into this that you had no clue about? The things that you preach the most are like. This is something parents right at the jump should know about before making a decision. What are some of those bigger ones for you?

Speaker 2: 30:26

I think, the checklist itself. I learned over time that these are mostly really bright, gifted children, like I think for me it was. It was such an awakening that that almost like they took the identity of the gifted and creative child and switched it to an ADHD child, because that's where all the money is. So if you're gifted and creative, I remember saying, well, my son, he is so verbal and I think he might be gifted You're laughed at right. So that part I felt like I had no idea that some of these characteristics are the very, very characteristics we need as a society and, as you know, humans, to kind of create the next generation like the smart people. Even though they're annoying at times, they're the ones that we need the most sometimes. That's how I feel. So I was kind of devastated to learn that a lot of these same characteristics mirrored that of the gifted child. So I feel like, for the informed consent part, I think that they really need to tell that to parents. This authoritarian position that the school takes with the government, that they can label you mentally ill when you're really gifted, is such a crime.

Speaker 2: 31:58

And then the other part were the drugs. I mean I never put my son on the psychiatric drugs because Patty saved me. So Patty's work and her courage to go down to Congress and testify saved me and saved turned my life so differently, so differently. The outcome, like you were saying with your son and you know, is what, what you do when your child's seven does impact their future. So you know, I feel as though I was saved and and the drugs, the try this drug, and if this drug doesn't work, try this, or there's a mixture. Maybe you need two drugs. To me that's so I feel so heartbreaking that we believe this industry at all. I mean, recently I'll just jump into this really quick there were hearings on the dangers of SSRIs, the antidepressants, on pregnant women and we've been on watching that and talking about it.

Speaker 2: 33:06

It's like such a milestone. It's like we have psychiatry and the drug companies on the ropes, okay, whereas these people within their own industry are like we reject this model and these drugs are dangerous for pregnant women. Well, we're going to be doing an article in a couple of days. A little spoiler alert here is that what the industry did the hardcore we want to label and drug your child and all of society. They went to the lawmakers and had four Congress people draft up a letter to Secretary Kennedy, who has so much courage to be addressing any of these issues that we haven't talked about in years, and they wrote a letter to him saying how dare you allow?

Speaker 2: 34:03

This panel is scaring parents and they're scaring and I'm like, oh my God, this is incredible drama that is playing out and it is so good for our country. It is so good for our health. It is so good. When you cling on to when we were talking earlier about, when you claim well, if you don't use this drug, your child is going to become a drug addict. What proof do you have of that, right? What proof do you have of that, right? You know what proof when these experts were on this panel and they were like we don't know enough, this is harming the baby in utero. I mean to me and then to have Congress write a letter to and we're going to be writing on this. That is just so shocking.

Speaker 3: 34:59

You guys did one in July actually that was on your website about pregnancy, and I'm like it's going to piggy right off that one, I bet, because you guys have one out there and I was like, do you know? Though?

Speaker 1: 35:08

immediately after that FDA panel came out, the APA, the American Psychiatric Association, made a statement within a day or two of this and the statement was these meds are completely safe for a pregnant mom. And I was like shut the fuck up.

Speaker 3: 35:31

But literally it was like That'd be Terry on Capitol Hill, Like that's her poster. Shut the fuck up, Seriously.

Speaker 2: 35:42

I love it. It's so true. You're like how can you say when is your evidence Right? It's this main argument. For 20 years we've been having Drugs, good Diagnosis, good Drugs, bad Diagnosis, diagnosis false. And it's like when do we get to lay out the receipts? I'm a guest sometimes on Steve Bannon's show and he's always like you have to show the receipts. You can't just make these claims, right, okay? Well, maybe if we had a category that had psychotropic drug use on when you're gathering death information at a crime scene and you you're able to fill that category out, maybe then the data will be live for us to see. But they're covering up the data. I mean, when you're withholding evidence, who's right? Is it the person that's withholding the evidence or is it the person that's saying you know, we have these receipts here and we have plenty of receipts.

Speaker 2: 36:47

I mean, like the Andrea Yates, she was the Mother's Act. We fought against the Mother's Act where they wanted to screen all these mothers who were pregnant for depression. We fought against that. We lost. Okay, so Andrea Yates was on a cocktail of psychiatric drugs. Okay, that's evidence. Right there she was. Was she mentally ill or did the cocktail of drugs warp her mind so much where voices were telling her you must kill your children, right, you know? Then we have a case in um, a fascinating case in massachusetts, where a mother, um, killed her kids and then she tried to kill herself. She tried to jump out a window and she lived Okay. And now they're pursuing charges against her and her attorney happens to be taking up the fact that she was given 13 different psychiatric drugs prior to the mass killing of her own children. Then we had the Wyoming case of the mother who killed her children and she was on a cocktail of psychiatric drugs and um and another drug that um I can't, I can't think um ketamine, which is very oh sure, she's doing ketamine therapy.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Yeah, so she was doing that and she was on a psych drug and, uh, you know, it just wasn't the right cocktail though.

Speaker 1: 38:15

Yeah, you know, I mean, that's what they say, right, it's just not. You're just not on the right drugs, you're just not there, like you know that's the thing.

Speaker 1: 38:25

And I want to go back to the children thing too, because I think it's predatory to moms, because moms are usually the ones sitting in those meetings Sorry, dads, but usually the moms are the ones you know with the school stuff and it is such a load of mom guilt. Well, you know, if your kid had diabetes you would put them on insulin, right? You know, like this mom guilt and shame, and I think any mom who's questioning this continue to question it. Yes, well, openly, honestly and a lot.

Speaker 3: 39:00

And I think I want to go back because I only have a few minutes, but I think this is so important Sheila, you said this earlier and you expanded on this and it's this idea of like state versus trait Maybe I'm going to call it that right and how your child at seven is going to be extremely different than your child at seven and a half and at eight, and at eight and a half and at nine, right?

Speaker 3: 39:25

Okay, so we are told that there is a trait, a characterological malfunction, a trait that is wrong with our children, which is why we need to put them on these drugs, when in fact, like what you did, sheila, you proved that actually this is a state of being, it is a space that my child is at in their life. And this whole idea of parents who are like well, you know, I'm not resourced enough to try all the other alternatives, right, pulling your kid out of school, giving them some private tutoring, getting them back in and being on call if you need to come get them, all these interventions and these options people can do that. People choose not to, and I know this is going to sound really harsh as a mom and a parent and other people are like oh well, then you're just. That's because you're well resourced, jen, you've got the money, you're from an affluent space.

Speaker 1: 40:21

No actually because the majority of moms will say I will do anything, anything for my child, I will do anything.

Speaker 3: 40:28

So this whole idea, I think, of state versus trait is really important for parents to think about, because you might have to do something for a year. You might have to, but in one year I can guarantee you, if you try other things other, everything else other than the drug, I can guarantee you that in a year you won't even need to be having that conversation anymore, because this is a state and this is what they are going through.

Speaker 2: 40:53

I totally agree. But why are we put in this position? I felt like when my son was in school, every day I'd send him off on the bus. I was like, oh my God, how is my day going to unwind? Am I going to have to go pick him up? And this and that you know. We've moved so far away. We're behavioral health oriented. Everything is about behavior, behavior, behavior. Nothing is about teaching and learning skills.

Speaker 3: 41:25

It's compliance right. We medicate to compliance. So they sit still, so they listen, so they're quiet, so they're right, like that's what, what it is, you're right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:34

So I think we have to get I mean we have to be able to get the drugging of children, the diagnosing, out of the schools or give an option. If you have, let's say, one door of the psychologist's office, you could go through that door and get your child identified and do the whole behavioral health thing. Or you have the able child door where you get tools and you get resources and you learn and you have communication skills and that sort of thing one-on-one. I think we eventually will. Most parents will pick the able child door versus the ADHD door. I really, truly believe that. But right now we have a government that only supports the ADHD door.

Speaker 2: 42:25

What we saw in those hearings a couple of weeks ago was an industry fighting within itself to break free of that psychiatric drug model and I wholeheartedly support that 100%. We have to encourage these brave psychiatrists and psychologists to take over the system. But we have the lawmakers writing letters to Senator Kennedy saying these drugs are vital, when they're not vital. We do not have a deficiency of antidepressants, we just don't. We have a deficiency of nutrients.

Speaker 1: 43:11

And so when we add together what kids are eating during the school day or not eating during the school day, I think that plays an important role too. I think that plays an important role too when you start with a sugary thing and you don't eat any protein until maybe you get home, maybe at lunch, a chicken nuggy. That child is deficient in protein and also doing the blood sugar highs and lows. There's so many reasons and if we would just start asking the right questions and start listening differently, I think we can get to the root of these problems. And it's not just compliance and pop a pill and I'm so fricking shit, I'm so tired of that shit.

Speaker 3: 43:54

You know, like I'm just that's what came out of my mouth in the meetings at school Like I'm like he actually we're he's getting irritable because he's hungry and he can't sit still because he's hungry and I'm like he actually he's getting irritable because he's hungry and he can't sit still because he's hungry.

Speaker 2: 44:04

And.

Speaker 3: 44:04

I'm going through the timeline with all of the teachers and they're looking at me and I said how about we insert two more extra snacks for him? And he's going to get a protein snack. I'll pack it. And he gets to have that Problem is hold on.

Speaker 1: 44:16

Problem is and I've been involved as a professional in IEPs and in those IEPs I said right in there protein snack breaks every three hours for this kid. Schools would not do it because if it's in an IEP they have to provide it. So it can't be parent provided in an IEP. So that's the other thing.

Speaker 1: 44:39

If you don't go down the IEP route, you know, then you can just go in and keep having these things that are out of control, but primarily and this again, this is not research-based, this is just observational-based things these kids are on medications, or have been on medications, since they were little people, and their behaviors are out of control and it's just met with more medications.

Speaker 1: 45:23

Um, instead of like this idea like where did we just decide that we're so stupid that we can't put it together, that this kid is probably struggling because of these medications, let's see that, oh wait, we'll do a med wash and that's their new baseline for the next two weeks. And they're out of control even more, which means they need more meds, right? No, it means their brain has not yet reached homeostasis again without the medication, and so that's why I think, when you have somebody that does a, you know, egregious act of any kind, we need to go down into their history and see even down into did their mom take psychiatric meds during pregnancy. I feel like that is important too, like I feel like it is all important. So I don't know where it begins, where it ends, but I just want, I want moms to know that you can have a voice that's different than the big bully voice of the principal or school people, because sitting in that room by yourself or maybe with your partner.

Speaker 1: 46:25

Two against eight, yeah you gotta channel your inner Jen and Sheila and Terry like imagine we're right on your shoulder right there and just keep fighting because it's and do what I did, it stand up and say, yeah, you don't know who you're talking to, lady, that's what I said.

Speaker 2: 46:48

I love that line.

Speaker 3: 46:48

I was. I was like I don't believe in ADHD. And they were like, well, you're a bad mom, you don't believe in ADHD.

Speaker 1: 46:52

That's just a bad mom, like conspiracy theorists.

Speaker 3: 46:55

whatever you know we're getting right at we're getting right at wrap up time, so it's probably a good spot for us to end here, sheila, thank you, thank you for what you are doing. Thank you. Your advocacy is changing the world.

Speaker 2: 47:11

I hope so. I mean, I just want to save these kids because we don't have to medicate them. We need to educate them. That's our role, and we got to get big pharma out of our schools. We really do so. If there's anybody out there who wants to do one simple thing, they can go to my website on a bar. There's a petition you can sign it. I want to get federal hearings into the link between psychiatric drugs and mass shootings, so I need about 10,000 signatures. I think I have about 3,300. So every signature helps. We are not funded by the federal government or the state. We're funded by parents throughout the country, so any donations goes directly into my advocacy and I just really appreciate being on your show today and I thank you for bringing up this topic, because it's not an easy topic for people and it's just really important. It really is. So thank you for everything, and you girls are heroes. I love to hear it. You don't know who you're talking to, I love that.

Speaker 3: 48:21

Oh well. Thank you, sheila. If you guys are stayed with us to the end here, make sure that you check out ablechildorg and you've listened to the Gaslit Truth podcast. You can find us anywhere that you listen to your podcasts. We are also on all of the socials. You can check us out on YouTube and on Facebook and Instagram and stay curious, everybody. Thank you again, sheila, for being on the show, and we may have to have you back.

Speaker 2: 48:46

I would be delighted. Thank you,