317. How Just Showing Up Ended Years of Binging

What happens after you've tried everything? The plans, protocols, cleanses, and tracking apps. The running, the restriction, the attempt to outrun the fork. At some point, the effort becomes its own kind of exhaustion. You're no longer chasing health, you're chasing relief.

In this episode of Insatiable, I sit down with Dee, a graduate of the Truce with Food: Consistency program, to talk about what actually creates lasting change when food has become comfort, numbness, and self-punishment all at once. Dee shares what it was like to move from binging and rigid thinking into something quieter and more powerful: just showing up.

3:51 – Why Dee felt stuck before joining Truce With Food: Consistency 

7:47 – Why Dee had no hesitation about signing up, even after having tried so many things before

11:04 – What changed for Dee when success was defined as simply showing up

13:47 – Having a safe space and the role of compassionate witnesses in ending her isolation 

21:13 – The unexpected power of language in reshaping Dee’s thinking and behavior

27:23 – Where things shifted for Dee and where she is now compared to when she started

30:50 – How Dee’s rigid thinking and perspective on movement and motivation have changed

34:40 – The biggest shift for Dee in her relationship with food and why intensity and duration matter more than perfection

37:19 – The shift from measuring thinness to measuring aliveness

40:32 – What else surprised Dee about the work within the program and her words for anyone considering joining

Mentioned In How Just Showing Up Ended Years of Binging

Finding Me: A Memoir by Viola Davis

Find Your Food Stage Quiz

Transcript

Ali Shapiro: Welcome to Insatiable, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of food, psychology, and culture.

Dee: The biggest thing for me too, was I don't like to cry or show emotion, but I could not help that. But I felt safe and it was such a relief because the group is a place that I can't talk about these things, these issues, anywhere else. With anyone else, like with this raw honesty and just vulnerability and feeling exposed. And really, really, I tried hard not to cry, but I just couldn't. It was just such a release and a relief to be in a safe space.

Ali Shapiro: I’m your host, Ali Shapiro, an integrated health coach, 32-year and counting cancer survivor, and have radically healed my relationship with food and my body. For the past 17 years, I’ve been working with clients individually, in group programs, and in company settings to do the same. Welcome.

The information in this podcast should not be considered personal, individual, or medical advice.

So today we have a very special guest. It is one of my clients, Dee, who we met about a year and a half ago when she decided to take the Truce With Food Consistency Program, after having tried lots of things that she’s going to talk about in today’s interview.

I wanted to have Dee on so you can hear someone’s real-life experience of going through my three-month Truce With Food Consistency program, which is open for registration right now. All the details are in the show notes. So enjoy today’s episode with Dee.

We’re going to talk about all the things she had tried before joining Consistency, why she decided to join, how she felt about success being just showing up, and what results did she get from what I call showing up with a C-plus effort? Okay. We’re going to talk now that she’s a year and a half outside of the program. Where was she compared to when she started?

And I love this because often, in marketing terms, I have to talk about sustainable changes. But really, when you go through the framework that I’ve created, it’s not just sustainable changes, it’s transformational because they start to accumulate. Dee is going to talk about those transformational results. She’s going to talk about what surprised her, what was most helpful. So you’re really getting a sneak peek and a behind-the-curtain of the magic and why it’s so magical.

So enjoy today’s episode. I’m sure you will fall in love with Dee’s story just like I love Dee and all my clients. I always tell the people that I coach in my Truce Coaching Certification that once you learn someone’s story, it’s just so easy to fall in love with them. So enjoy Dee’s very insightful answers in this interview.

If you are interested in Truce With Food Consistency, check it out. Registration ends February 18th and won’t be open for quite a while. So I don’t want you to have to put off this kind of work because we know the older we are, the more important it is to make these changes sooner than later.

All right. Enjoy today’s episode. So Dee, thank you so much for being here. I know coming on a podcast is a big edge, and then the stuff we talk about is deep. So I just really appreciate you putting yourself out there.

Dee: Absolutely. Thanks for asking me. It helped me get over, you know, just to face another challenge, and that’s exciting.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. So nobody gets to midlife without trying a lot of things with their health, their weight, their bodies, all of these things. So tell me where you were before you came to Truce With Food Consistency, which used to be called Why Am I Eating This Now?

Dee: I was stuck in a lot of emotional eating, just looking to food for comfort and really feeling like that was the only place to find it, and just to numb out. Like probably so many people, I’ve done so many programs, so many things prior to this.

I did Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, ProLon, Isagenix, fasting, just so many things. I was just so frustrated—frustrated with my body, frustrated with myself, feeling shame that it was just, “I’m not disciplined. I’m not doing something right enough.”

I also did an expensive functional medicine program. It certainly had its value, but like all the out-of-pocket blood tests and panels, none of it really got me to the root cause, which is what I was looking for.

So yeah, I was just really, really stuck, feeling alone, feeling like the other, didn’t have much compassion for myself. I mean, desperate, kind of, and very frustrated.

And I actually just found you on a podcast through another podcaster and thought, “Yeah, why not?” I have to try something else because this stuff isn’t working.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. You know, when you tried things like—because I’ve tried Weight Watchers, I remember Isagenix, I tried all that stuff too—does it feel like it works? It kind of works at first, right? Did you have that experience, or was it like after a while you found nothing worked? But in the beginning, those plans and protocols, they seem to give you a sense of control. Was that your experience?

Dee: Yes and no. I didn’t find a lot of success because, I would imagine, again, it’s not usually ever like one thing, one reason. But I found a little bit of success.

But when I did a 21-day cleanse, a lot of people would lose like 13 pounds. I lost like three-ish. So that was incredibly frustrating. Also feeling like, “What’s wrong with my body? Why am I not like other people?”

I just feel like I look at other women and they just stop eating and then they’re so thin and can fit back in their pants or whatever. But yes, some success.

But the first time I did Jenny Craig, I had a lot of success, but I was a lot younger. I was still in my twenties. Then when I tried to do Jenny Craig for a second round, just eating the food out of the box, I thought, “Well, how can this not work?” But I wasn’t really successful then either. I was older, so the same things didn’t work.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, I love that you bring that context in. It’s like in your twenties, a lot of things will work temporarily. But then as you age, our physiology just changes.

Dee: Yeah, and I would try to outrun the fork, if you will. I was able to really run miles and miles when I was younger. Then I started to develop an Achilles issue. I basically had a bone sticking out of my foot because your body does try and compensate and find stability when you can’t.

So around the time of Why Am I Eating This Now and Consistency, I had surgery, which was fantastic. I can run now, but I choose not to because I want to be consistent and sustainable. So I am walking, walking, walking, because I don’t feel like I’m going to have an injury and end up at PT forever again.

So I find walking such a bright spot and saving me because I’m just terrified to get hurt again, and I definitely don’t want surgery again.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah, I get that. So having tried so many things like so many of us, did you have any hesitations about signing up for Truce With Food Consistency?

Dee: Honestly, not really. I was just so frustrated. After I felt like I did the functional medicine program with a doctor, a life coach, a nutritionist, and I still really wasn’t finding success, I truly didn’t have hesitation.

I was just seeking answers and was like, “I have to try something different. I have to try something new.” I felt really comfortable because I felt good about it being based on science and research. It was about behavioral change, not just, “Okay, what does my blood panel say?” and just getting frustrated. Is it my genetics? Is it this? Is it that?

I just thought if I can get my mind in better shape, my body will follow, and I could finally see some real sustainable changes. So yeah, I honestly didn’t really have any hesitation, just feeling so powerless and seeking something that would finally be sustainable.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. I think that’s unfortunately what’s happened with functional medicine. Again, not all functional medicine practitioners—it’s such a varied field—but the idea was to look at the whole person, not just their blood panels, but look at where are they in their lives, where are they with their stress. Why do their symptoms make sense, including not being able to sustain certain things?

And it’s become what it originally was designed to counteract, which is now just giving people plans and protocols and not seeing people as a whole person, just a collection of blood work.

Dee: Absolutely. That’s exactly how I felt. It definitely had its value. It was a piece of my journey. It helped me understand different things. But that's what I kept feeling like they’re not hearing me, like these other factors, they're not seeing me completely like these other factors.

At the time, I couldn’t really exercise because I had this bone sticking out of my foot. It just felt like a script and a protocol. I’m not trying to beat up on that. It was a piece of my journey, and it helped lead me to where I am now because I had tried. I felt like I've tried everything, I've crossed everything off the list. It definitely led me here. But I didn’t really feel totally seen and heard.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. So I guess you decided to join as just like this is focused on behavior change. You felt something more mindset, like you said, get my mind right, the body will follow. Were there any other reasons you decided to join?

Dee: Just really trying to find the root cause and the emotional piece of why I reach for food for comfort and numbness, and frankly, why it makes sense that I do that.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. So in Consistency, in the opening circle, for people not familiar, we start with what’s called the second wind exercise, which is essentially, we plan for you to fall off track with the program. It's not a program like eat this, not this, but it's like showing up to understand your patterns. We talk about success just being showing up. How did that land for you prior to taking the program?

Dee: I freaking loved it, actually. I was fascinated by it. I just thought, “Okay, I just have to show up. I can do that.” No guilt, no judgment if I didn’t do the homework or if I didn’t progress as other folks were progressing in the program.

Because, again, I have pretty much a self-defeating attitude because I just hadn’t had a ton of success in the past. It just took the pressure off of me.

But I really found that approach fascinating because it’s like, of course we all think we’re going to have perfect attendance and do everything just right, really guns blazing, get to it. But it just took away the excuses, and it felt really honest, like, “Okay. This might happen. If it does, what are you going to tell yourself?”

And yeah, I just found it such a fascinating and eye-opening approach. It really allowed me to take it head-on. Again, it reduced the pressure so much because I was like, “I can absolutely show up. I can be present. It doesn’t mean I have to talk. It doesn’t mean I have to participate until I’m ready, but I can absolutely show up.” It was such a relief to have that pressure taken off.

Ali Shapiro: Oh, I love that. I love that. When you did the second wind exercise, do you remember what came up for you of like, “Why might I take myself out of the game? Why might I not just show up?”

Dee: Well, I like to write more than I like to speak in a group, so I found that helpful. But the second wind exercise allowed me to work through the obstacles.

But also, when we were able to gather as a group, I’d never been in that setting before where I just didn’t feel alone. Just being guided by you, being guided by a professional, feeling like there was a safety net, there was safety in what I was sharing.

Just not feeling that my thoughts and feelings were odd. Some of the folks had the same feelings and triggers and behaviors that I had. It felt like there was going to be a path to find the root cause again, which was being more open and honest about what we were entering into. That was really helpful.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I remember for you, taking up space was a big thing. It’s crazy because every time you—again, in the beginning you wouldn’t talk a lot, but by the end you would share. It was always so helpful for everybody.

So how was that, working through feeling like, “I don’t want to take up too much space?” Do you remember the trajectory?

Dee: I absolutely do. It honestly reassures me. It gives me so much comfort and realization of how far I’ve come.

I definitely did not want to be a burden, did not want to take up space, did not want to take time away from others, feeling like I wasn’t as worthy or my issues weren’t as hard or as important as others. So I absolutely do remember that.

Just getting worked up when you asked me to share. You gently did it, and I was able to go through it. But honestly, the biggest thing for me too was I don’t like to cry or show emotion, but I could not help that.

I felt safe, and it was such a relief because the group is a place where I can’t talk about these things anywhere else with anyone else with this raw honesty and vulnerability and feeling exposed.

I really tried hard not to cry, but I couldn’t. It was such a release and a relief to be in a safe space with you and other women where so many things looked and felt familiar.

And yeah, I’m just so grateful because for me to come on the podcast now, when I couldn’t even speak at all in the group, it adds a whole different element.

Just journaling and having your thoughts with yourself, it allowed so much growth because I was accepted and comforted and really supported. It was huge.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. What you’re pointing to, and this is that the obstacle is the path, when we’re eating alone, it’s like, “I’ll handle it myself” eating. We isolate.

I don’t usually believe anything is all or nothing, but I think it is very hard to work through food issues. What you need is compassionate witnessing and attunement because the whole reason we’re eating is that we’re not attuned.

You can’t attune yourself if you’ve never had that. You literally need the group or a guide. So I love that you’re bringing that up because it’s what I believe in.

Dee: And to that point, there were skills I didn’t even know I needed. I didn’t even know what those skills were.

I had never felt embodied or attuned to my own needs or my own self prior to jumping into Why Am I Eating This Now and Consistency, truly, because I just took care of other people’s needs constantly and always pushed myself to the side and felt like that was my obligation and duty and job.

So I didn’t even know what skills I needed. Just having a safe space to be acknowledged that my behaviors made sense, and to come to a place that gave me skills that said, “Pause. Here are some options. Here’s a safety signal menu you can reach for—movement, music, connection, creativity.”

I didn’t even know those resources were available to me. So much of my life, I’ve just been tense, I’m clenching my fists now. I’ve always been clenching my fists and holding on and bracing myself.

I didn’t have the skills. I didn’t even know what the skills were that would be useful to me to feel more at peace and, frankly, better in general.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I also want to circle back to you saying where you could actually show up with these issues. I find that at least half the people in Consistency tell me, “My spouse doesn’t even know I’m taking this.”

That speaks to how isolating these food issues can be. Then we all think we’re struggling alone, even though so many people are out there alone. We just need to come together and figure it out together.

Dee: Absolutely. The community and the connection—because I couldn’t discuss these things with my husband. He has his own food issues that I never even realized because I was so busy blaming and shaming myself all the time.

And definitely feeling like I couldn't disclose things to other folks because I’d look at them and they’d stop eating a meal or two and they're skinny.

So the group and the connection, that is the unique piece and the difference between anything I’ve ever done before. I truly feel that is the difference maker.

Collectively, we can learn new skills and move forward. Again, it’s based in science and research and a skill base you can build capacity for, with witnesses and compassionate witnesses to that. It’s really something special.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. I always say the group is the medicine, but we all come into it. What I find challenging about trying to encourage this work is there's a lot of reluctant joiners. If you’re eating, especially alone, if you're trying to be away from people and eat alone or eat at night, there’s something very separating and isolating.

So you have protective resistance to wanting to be in a group, but it’s actually what you need. Then you come out of it and you’re like, “Oh my God, there’s no way you can do this alone.”

But you don’t know that until you go through the value shift around belonging and groups—not all groups, but the right group.

Dee: The first thing I learned was that I had to find the right compassionate witness. Because it didn't feel like that. I knew I didn’t have that I didn't have the right compassionate witnesses around me. I didn’t feel comfortable.

That was the first step, finding a compassionate witness who was open-minded. I had an addiction to books. I’d just buy another book. I’d think, “I don’t have the information. Someone else has the answer. Someone else has the information.”

I listened to a million podcasts. I had racks of books about different ways to approach things. Again, it’s the connection and the witnessing and working through things together that gets you to the other side.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, for sure. I loved that you plugged the group. It's why I love doing group work. We all just move faster together. It's just better. But once you were willing to show up with that “C-plus effort,” what surprised you about the work? We talked about the group stuff, but was there anything else that surprised you with this work?

Dee: Really, how much the language mattered. When you gave me a framework and guardrails to think differently and be more open-minded, I felt more comfortable, this is more than that but starting and introducing, I feel more comfortable in a teacher-professor setting where you're giving me the knowledge and I'm just scribbling it down as fast as I can and trying to absorb as much as I can. But the language started to make all the difference in the beginning because just using a different word changed everything.

Replenish. Nourish. So much of the language was able to open my mind in a different way and made me feel safe to think differently and start to become more self-aware.

Also, the thing that surprised me again, the C-plus effort love, because I didn’t have to be perfect. I didn’t have to feel like I was going to not show up in the right way, not say the right thing. There are no right or wrong answers, but most importantly, that I did not need to be fixed. It was just helpful to be seen and heard and just really what I needed again, which is the right compassionate witness and a safe space to just release my frustration and sadness and just to gain more knowledge and skills and knowledge.

I mean, like just knowledge just encompasses so, so many things, like so much. We cover so, so much. But truly the beginning steps for me was the change in language. I just can’t describe how it changed my compassion for myself and my comfort and ease moving forward each day, giving me that strength and new perspective on things that really, really helped me.

Ali Shapiro: I love that you brought up that language piece, because I’ve had several people be like, “This is like learning a new language.” I was like, yeah, because I’ve been so immersed in it for so long. But it is. And until you can have the language, you’re just in the old world that you’ve always been in. Of like, even the word compassion. Like, how has that shifted your understanding?

Because when I was struggling with food, I’m like, compassion sounds like I’m just giving up. Again, I was really judgmental of myself. But like the idea of compassion, and maybe it hasn’t, but has it, like how you understand it has shifted?

Dee: I hope this makes sense. But like, I so needed just to be given permission to give myself compassion. Your group and your framework gave me permission to have compassion for myself, because I absolutely did not. I was so hard on myself. Just, of course everything had to be my fault, and I wasn’t doing things right. That’s why I wasn’t successful. My body’s just not like other people. There has to be something wrong with me.

Again, the permission to feel compassion for myself, that totally changed. I’m not even sure I knew that word was in my vocabulary, except for other people. I can even get judgment-free and compassionate zones to folks constantly, but I couldn’t give that to myself. Again, having that permission to do so really, really changed.

Because again, often while we turn to food, it does make sense. Just being able to hear that and be able to give yourself compassion, that compassion really allows for the behavior that you don’t hope for, that it allows it to stop or pause. It decreases in intensity and duration just with that compassion that you can give yourself.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Because it’s like you can finally see yourself as whole. Like, I’m not broken. It’s like the body when it’s scabbing over a scab. It’s like, “Oh, you’re doing your thing.” And then we don’t realize how food is like, “Oh my God, I’m just trying to.”

Dr. Deborah MacNamara says it almost works to comfort us. And it’s like I’m doing what I was told, like you said, I didn’t know there were other skills. So I just love that you bring that up, that it gave you permission.

Dee: Sorry, the other piece about the group, that like when I was witnessing compassion, when I was easily giving compassion to others, what happened was I have really never been able to receive compassion or receive any praise or positive reinforcement. Like, just like I would just shush it away. Like, no, no, no.

What I was able to have with the group was it’s allowed me another skill to be able to receive. Again, that’s helpful. It’s helpful to just stop the negative thought patterns and the negative, like just being able to receive, and having the compassion of the group is significant and also unique to this program.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I love that you brought up the receiving part, because it’s like it sounds like, oh, we all want it. But then when you get it, it can be like, “Do I owe people for this? What do I have to do with this?” Instead of like nothing, you just have to be in it.

Dee: Definitely new to me. There are so many things, like maybe folks think this is just so normal. Like these things were not normal for me. I’ve been existing like this for a reason, just trying to give and accommodate to others and never receive or give myself some space or compassion, really.

I just can’t emphasize enough, these things that may seem small to others, they’re huge. They’re just huge.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. Well, we’re taught it’s like go big or go home, when like what’s small is really profound, which actually moves the needle.

So you are about a year and a half out of Truce With Food Consistency. Where are you now compared to when we started?

Dee: I just find so much positive energy from you pointing out, like just even such small things that reassure me that I really feel like I’ve come so far.

Things really started to shift, like going back to the beginning when I was started understanding the TAIL triggers: tired, anxious, inadequate, and lonely. Again, when I was given the notion that I needed to resource myself, I find myself in all of those categories of triggers, but oftentimes anxious.

Just that if I’m better able to resource myself and reach for these things, the safety menu, and realizing that there really are tools and that I deserve to be able to use these tools. I deserve to see movement as just a break that I need, that I have to have in order to be able to keep moving forward.

But the shift really happened when I really, again, just learned that I didn’t necessarily have to turn to food. And being compassionate to myself allowed me to stop the binging and learning again to resource myself.

I could calm my anxiety with movement, music, breathwork, and noticing nature. But the biggest shift was when just pause, just pause. Everything didn’t feel as high stakes like it had in the past.

Everything wasn’t such an all-or-nothing. Like, “This is going to be it. The relationship’s over. They’re going to leave. They’re going to leave me.” Or, “I ate this one thing, so nothing’s going to work. I failed again.”

So really it was in the beginning, just with understanding why me turning to food for so many years made sense.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I love that you brought up the high stakes, because for listeners, part of what we get into in the course is when our belonging or significance feels under threat, we feel things have to be urgent. We have to react. We have to decide.

Then we split. We judge ourselves, and then we judge other people. When we’re feeling this under threat, so part of a lot of what we work on is that pause that Dee’s talking about, because believe it or not, you have to learn how to pause.

Instead, especially in this age of social media where we think everyone’s reacting instantly, that’s actually encouraged more. But you’ve got to slow things down when you want to go fast.

That’s a skill set that takes time to learn, because you have to learn how your physiology, how your belonging radar, which is the drive that makes us want to turn to food, works.

But that’s what we talk about and teach in the program. I love that you brought that up, Dee. How do I actually pause and slow down and realize things aren’t as high stakes as they feel in this moment?

But if I give them a beat and use some of the tools, I can have more perspective, that relationships are built over time. Like one meal is not going to make or break, even though I know I used to feel that way. I was like, “Ah.” I didn’t even know what I was feeling over imperfection. I couldn’t even pause long enough. So I’m so glad that you brought that up.

So what are some things that you couldn’t do before that made sense, but that you’re able to do now? You mentioned like ending the binging, taking time for movement that isn’t just about weight loss, but is actually about resourcing yourself. It can be both. We get into things aren’t either-or, it can be both. But what are some of the new behaviors, or shifts, I guess?

Dee: I would say I really figured out that that rigid thinking, that all-or-nothing, black-or-white, only binary options, to even be exposed to that there can be an option C. There can be a different way to look at things, to just calm yourself, pause, and look for another option.

I mean, that’s been an amazing experience. But also regarding movement, absolutely. It was only ever about calories burned. I would keep track of that. I would, “Oh, if I do this, I’ll burn this many calories. If I do 10 more things today, I’ll burn this many calories.”

But movement is about so much more than that. I’ve also learned, again, you can speak more to this, but I feel like with myself, the exercise for burning calories is such a small piece of my overall being that I didn’t, I mean, it wasn’t moving me forward in my goals of wanting weight loss. So I just had to look at it differently.

It has just been so forgiving to look at movement as a way of resourcing myself, my mind, and to give me comfort. Then it also just took the pressure off that I didn’t do this perfectly, or I didn’t lift this weight the exact way, or I didn’t do it 10 days in a row.

Just to have gratitude to be able to move. That’s what has led me to more consistency in my life than ever before. Because I would just be so upset. “What am I going to do? I didn’t run yesterday. I didn’t run yesterday.”

But if I just focus on movement and replenishing myself and restoring myself, it gives it a lot different perspective. Again, it leads to so much more consistency.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, I know. It’s the paradox. And that’s why I always say it’s like it doesn’t mean you have to—people, if they’re coming in with a weight loss goal, it doesn’t mean you have to give that up. It just means with how we know adults change, that long-term weight loss goal is just not incentivizing enough.

But to your point, replenishing yourself, resourcing, it’s like, oh, this feels good when all that pressure isn’t around it. It’s not used as punishment or like—I think a lot of times what we think is motivation is just really shame and guilt versus like, does it feel different now to be like, oh, I need to resource myself? Like, doesn’t that feel different than maybe like, would you almost redefine motivation now?

Dee: Absolutely. That shame is the hardest place to get out of. It keeps you so stuck. It kept me so stuck. Again, I could just feel it like a blanket over me, and the movement and thinking about it differently just opened up a world of possibility that like, it’s going to be good enough. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Just move, just move forward. Just each day, you know, keep plugging along, and things are going to get better.

But it’s also about the bigger things in life—mobility, moving, being able to move with your children or grandchildren, or just being able to pick up groceries and get out of the car, and just having the peace, the peace in your mind. It’s just about so much more. When you can get out of that shame blanket, it really lifts so much off of you, and you can move consistently.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Yeah. How about the food?

Dee: I’m still definitely a work in progress, but what has changed is I’m no longer binging. I’m still working on the intricacies of my own body, and everyone’s unique. But I feel like I have the things at my fingertip now that I’ve worked on the root cause more. But I absolutely pause.

The biggest thing for me is like, if I do turn to food, now I know why. I pause. I understand. I have compassion for myself. Something really stressful is going on in my life, I can understand it and appreciate it, not just be clueless and numb and just continue to eat the box of crackers because I can’t figure it out and I just want to be numb. I just don’t want to feel.

It’s just that pause and no longer binging and having a better understanding of how I got here and having compassion and why this all made sense for so long. But I can choose another way. I can choose a different pathway. That feels empowering and really good.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Well, and you had mentioned earlier about food going down in intensity and duration. For people listening, part of the all-or-nothing is this imaginary thinking that food is going to be solved overnight. And with binging, binging is really associated with shame, which to Dee’s point is like a blanket. It is hard to get out of.

So what we measure in the program is not, “Are you never going to emotionally eat again?” Like, that’s not realistic. But we’re measuring, has your intensity and duration gone down? And so Dee’s saying like, “I don’t binge anymore, but I’m still going to have moments.”

You know, like we were snowed in yesterday, and I felt like all I wanted to do—I’d come from Philadelphia helping my sister. I was sick. I haven’t had my movement in a couple of days. I’m like, “Oh my God, I just want to eat on the couch.” I didn’t eat a ton of stuff, but I had crackers and cheese. But I don’t know if that’s even emotional eating because I wanted it and I don’t care.

But I think I’m going to have to do a whole episode on the Truce With Food is not about perfection, but it’s just about, are you learning? Is the intensity and duration going down? And to come from binging to what you’re doing now is huge. Like, it is huge. So I just want to sit, name that, and name all the progress that you’ve had and to know what’s happening. You get more self-awareness each time rather than, “I suck. Now I need another protocol.”

Dee: Yes. Thank you for pointing that out because the intensity and duration, again, it’s a big deal for me. Like, just to be able to slow that down and not be as frequent. Also, just thinking about the metrics differently, not necessarily the number on the scale, but just thinking about the metrics differently.

What does health mean to me now? It’s not just about thinness and weight loss. It’s about feeling alive and feeling better in my own skin and just feeling an overall sense of calmness to face the day ahead and to have purposeful and enriching relationships in my life. Those are the things.

Not just like, “I am not worthy because I’m not this size or this weight.” It’s about so many more things. It’s just such an expanded definition that has just given me so much.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. You’re also making me think about using your example of exercise. It’s the paradox of like, once you’re unattached but you’re showing up, that’s when things happen. That’s what happens with weight. The more you grip to it, the more you’re consumed by it. You’re reacting to it versus the more you can hold it of like, well, I’m enjoying my life more. I feel lighter. I see my habits changing. I see things shifting.

That’s when you can lose weight and enjoy it instead of being like, maybe I’ve lost five pounds, but now I’m gripping because I’m not enjoying this or my life, and I’m putting off feeling good. I always say you got to slow down to speed up.

People will say to me, and I’m very clear, this isn’t a quick fix, but are you getting further over the years or the months than you were in decades of yo-yoing? Because, to your point, even the intricacies of the body, like from going to extremes, physiologically, it’s called the HPA axis that stresses the body. So our body also has to take some time to be like, “Oh, you’re not going to send me into this all-or-nothing, on-off. Like, I can trust that you’re going to nourish me consistently.”

There’s things that just take some time. If you can enjoy it, like you said, feeling better, better relationships, that is the path to sustainability in terms of whatever, however we’re defining health. So I’m so glad you brought that up.

Dee: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s just such a difference in just being attuned to my central nervous system and to allow calm. Just such a significant difference. And being able to find the joy and cherish the relationships that I care so much about. It just means so much more.

I do believe now the people that truly love me, they don’t care what that number on the scale says.

Ali Shapiro: Well, and now I’m getting chills because I’m thinking about—you said that shame blanket. I think that shame blanket, if we look at it from a nervous system perspective, shame tends to put us in freeze, and we can’t really feel a lot when we’re in that space.

So to be able to feel the love that people have for you, it’s like that receiving that you talked about. Like, that’s so much of this that takes the pressure off of us. Like, I can feel how good my life is because of the choices I’m making, and all that stuff. I was just connecting some dots to what you were saying about the blanket.

Dee: Absolutely.

Ali Shapiro: So was there anything that surprised you? I mean, you had mentioned compassion and the new skills, but is there anything else you want to add about what surprised you about this work?

Dee: That intuition is a skill. I could never name it. Now that I have, again, given the language and the definition, I’ve been pretty damn good at it. I didn’t know that. It’s what has kept me safe and frankly functioning so well in my life.

But it’s a beautiful thing to know that and that I found a safe space to learn new skills—skills that lead to long-lasting and sustainable change. Just to reiterate that I found it so surprising that health can mean so much more than thinness and losing weight. That is life-changing. That has a lasting effect that I will take with me for all the years ahead.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. I love that you said intuition is a skill. Yep, yep, yep.

So what would you say to someone considering the program? Because, you know, I want the people who want to do the work, and it has to be a right fit. What would you say to someone who’s considering it?

Dee: Just do it. Be brave. Be open. It can change your life for the better. It can change your relationship with yourself. I hope that you can feel the hope and promise that I have felt with this program.

I always like to quote Viola Davis from her memoir: “You are the love of your life. You need to start right now believing that.” I hope that you do. I hope that you decide to take the leap and just go for it.

Ali Shapiro: You’re going to make me cry. I love that. It was like on Instagram, her saying that to her daughter. Oh my God, I love that. I know it was in her memoir, but she also spoke about it. It’s such a beautiful—I love that you brought that up.

Dee: It’s all over Instagram, and her book was beautiful. I hope that folks can find it on Instagram, the words she spoke to her daughter are so powerful and so meaningful.

Ali Shapiro: Well, and you highlight it. “You are the love of your life.” Like, everything stems from our relationship with ourselves.

Dee: Absolutely.

Ali Shapiro: Well, thank you so much. Is there anything that I didn’t ask you that you wanted to share? I always ask all my guests.

Dee: No, I guess just as we part, I just want to highlight the change from perfectionism to momentum is huge. I didn’t even know I was a perfectionist. I just was trying to avoid being inadequate. Momentum, movement, these new skills, it’s changed my life for the better. So thank you.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. I love that you brought that up. That’s so relieving to people. Like, we’re measuring momentum, not perfection. Brilliant.

Well, thank you so much, Dee. How are you feeling? I know this was an edge and a challenge for you. How are you feeling?

Dee: I am a little tearful, as always, right now. I can’t help it, but I’m proud of myself. I thank you for everything so much. The program helping me along my way with growth, but I am in a little bit of shock that I did this. I’m so proud of myself, from someone a year and a half ago who couldn’t even speak and didn’t want to take up space. Thank you.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Yeah. No, you did great. You’re the one who showed up. So I’m so proud of you too. Thank you so much for being here, Dee, and for being brave and walking the path. You know I love my people, so I appreciate you so much.

Dee: You too. Thank you so, so much.