38. I Live with Stage 4 Breast Cancer: Here’s My Take on Elle Macpherson’s Approach

What do you think about Elle Macpherson's approach to breast cancer?

In this episode of Wellbeing Interrupted, I explore the controversy surrounding Elle Macpherson’s breast cancer journey. Elle’s decision to decline certain conventional treatments sparked intense media debate. As someone living with stage 4 breast cancer, I share my perspective on navigating illness, embracing an integrative approach, and learning from each other’s experiences.

Key Episode Takeaways:

• An Integrative Approach to Wellness: Combining medical treatments with natural therapies can be transformative.
• Reflecting on Elle Macpherson’s Breast Cancer Journey: Understanding that each person’s healing journey is unique.
• The Media’s Response: Fear and Cynicism: Criticism and fear of alternative approaches create a toxic environment for healing.
• Challenging the Way We Think About Healing: Healing is about evolving—mind, body, and spirit.

Show Resources:

• Episode 11: Healing Journey Beyond Physical Recovery
• Episode 8: Embracing Change with an Open Mind
• Episode 9: What Illness or Health Condition is Worse?
• Breast Cancer Network Australia Response
• Elle Mcperhson on 60 Minutes
• Brainz Magazine Article: Not in Denial: Embracing Acceptance and Hope

If you like this episode, don’t forget to share it on Instagram stories and tag me @hurdle2hope!

Discover more by visiting www.hurdle2hope.com/healing-mindset-illness

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Transcript

Wellbeing Interrupted Episode 38

I Live with Stage 4 Breast Cancer: Here’s My Take on Elle Macpherson’s Approach

Host Teisha Rose

00:00] Teisha: Hey there, Teisha here, and welcome to Episode 38 of Wellbeing Interrupted. Before we get started, I want to thank those of you who sent me beautiful messages during the week after having heard Episode 36, where I share about the grief of us not having children. If you have been listening to Wellbeing Interrupted, you also know that I don't believe in coincidences, and I need to share.

[00:00:35] This was so amazing. I recorded that episode. I had no idea this last week had been Childless Not by Choice Awareness Week. So I thought, wow, how good's that? My episode was there, ready to help anyone navigating the grief around not having children. This week, the episode's a little bit different. It's all about Elle, Elle Macpherson.

[00:01:03] Elle Macpherson has been in Australia for a couple of weeks doing lots of radio shows, TV shows, promoting her book. And again, I've been asked what I thought about some of the interviews. I wasn't sure whether to respond, but I will. Um, and yeah, listen up. My reaction is very much in line with what Wellbeing and my business Hurdle2Hope is all about.

[00:01:35] Hope you enjoy the episode. 

Wellbeing Interrupted Podcast Intro

Welcome to Wellbeing Interrupted, the podcast dedicated to exploring the transformative power of a healing mindset. I'm Teisha Rose, your host and the founder of Hurdle2Hope. If you're on a quest to not just survive but thrive after a life changing diagnosis, then you're definitely in the right place.

[00:02:02] Living with MS and now stage 4 breast cancer has taught me a vital lesson. In the face of a life changing illness, our mindset is everything. Each week I'll share insights, tips and strategies to help you build a happier, healthier, more balanced life. So let's begin your journey from hurdle to hope starting right now.

An Integrative Approach to Wellness

00:02:31] So for those who don't know me and don't know my story, from the outset I want to make it really clear that I believe in having an integrative approach. First with MS, I was very much only focusing on medical. That didn't work. I had an amazing doctor, but unfortunately, only having the treatments meant my life was dominated by MS in my 20s.

[00:03:02] I spent so much time in hospital, I would get Treatment, steroid treatment to regain my functioning, then I would have my injections that I took every day to help with MS, but it didn't work. And I'm not saying the medication didn't work, but by itself, it certainly didn't. And my life was miserable. It was As I said, was dominated by MS and I spent, you know, in 2000, it was months in hospital, paralyzed, lying in hospital bed, unable to move.

[00:03:37] Then 2003, that time I couldn't use my arms, hands. Again, it was a really scary experience. I was also in a wheelchair, but that experience in 2003 was really when I started changing a bit. And I started, even in rehab, I would go off and have acupuncture and Feldenkrais. And part of that was really to work on my overall wellbeing.

[00:04:09] And ever since then, that has been my approach. It has worked with MS. Again, still taking medication. I have an infusion every six months for MS, but I haven't had a relapse with MS since 2012. And if you did listen to that episode, um, 36 about the grief of not having children, that was when I had my last relapse, and that was when of the medication, but also part of that was the absolute grief I was experiencing and my body didn't cope.

[00:04:47] So I guess fortunately for me, MS has taught me the importance straight up of when I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer that I needed to combine my approaches and that's exactly what I've done. Mine was a little bit different in terms of, I was diagnosed stage 2, within 2 weeks I was then diagnosed stage 4, it had already spread into my liver and sternum, but I took hormone blockers straight away, because I trusted the doctor I'd connected with.

[00:05:30] Then, I was meant to go on a more targeted treatment like, um, Jeannie talked about in episode 37. And again, I'm not sure whether this was God or the universe intervening, but my neurologist said to me, you know, I don't want you to go on that drug quite yet because you need to have your MS infusion. This drug for the cancer, a side effect was infection, then if I have this treatment for MS, my body, my immune system is suppressed and I wouldn't deal with the, um, infection.

[00:06:10] So basically, it meant that we held off on that drug, which I was fine with because I trusted my oncologist and neurologist, although I did So I said to the neurologist, no point in me walking really well to my grave. Um, so with that in mind, they made a decision that in about four months, I would go on to that drug.

[00:06:32] I had a PET scan and to the disbelief of everyone, I The cancer in my liver and in my sternum was no longer present. During those four months though, I didn't just sit and wait for the doctors to decide what to do, I called on all of my natural therapy Network to help. I had so many energy healing sessions.

[00:06:59] I had cranial osteo. I had Reiki. I had people I know give me remote healing. I had So much prayer and support around me. I was doing a lot of meditation. I was doing so much to try and get my body into the right place to heal. And then, as I said, you know, I went, had this PET scan, this cancer had gone.

[00:07:31] Then, must have been nearly 12 months after that, cancer came back. And it was in my breast. I didn't, Ignore my medical advice. My surgeon and oncologist, they actually were more thinking I could have a lumpectomy, but it was my intuition when I was speaking and chatting to my surgeon who thought, no, I just didn't feel right having a lumpectomy.

[00:08:03] But for me, it was, I wanted a mastectomy, you know, I was so scared that they wouldn't get all the margins, and I said I didn't want to be left with, you know, half a breast. I said, for my peace of mind, can you just remove it? And my intuition was right. After the surgery, my surgeon said it was a good call because it was bigger.

[00:08:24] Than what we had thought and I mightn't have been able to get all of the cells. So thank goodness I did follow my intuition. But for that situation, it was to go medical. And while I'm putting it out there as to what my beliefs are, wellness and healing. are essential to have the focus on these and what has made sense to me is that the environment which created MS to start with to be in my life and the environment where I I kept getting relapses and was so sick and the MS was incredibly aggressive.

[00:09:13] I needed to do something to change and that's my approach to wellness. If the environment internally, externally has been perfect for something like, for me, MS to thrive in, then I needed to make changes and that's what I did. This snowballed. You know, I left a corporate career in my 20s, I travelled, I then had a career change, I moved to a regional town, then we moved down to the beach.

[00:09:45] You know, I made all of these changes to prioritise my health and wellness, and fortunately, I I'd learned that that worked. So when diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer, my absolute priority was my wellbeing. So we now live on a hundred acres of land and I know, so that's my intuition knows, that this is a place for me to heal.

[00:10:18] So when I talk about healing, I'm talking about healing of the mind. and Spirit. In Episode 11, I talk about the healing journey is beyond physical recovery. And I'll go through what I think about all of the responses to our shortly. But I think. What we're talking about is healing at all levels. I don't know what is going to happen to me, but I still need to heal.

[00:10:53] So that healing involves my cancer, which is now in remission, never coming back. Amazing. They'd be incredible. But it's not wasted effort to focus on my well being if the cancer did come back, because I will have an impact on how I can respond to that.

Reflecting on Elle Macpherson’s Breast Cancer Journey

[00:11:19] Now let's move on to Elle. So Elle McPherson has been a A presence in the media over the last couple of weeks in Australia promoting her book. There has been outrage, outrage that Elle has talked about in her book, her breast cancer diagnosis, and her declining conventional treatment for that and that that sends a really bad message to others living with breast cancer.

[00:11:57] Part of me gets that, you know, part of me thinks, of course, we really need to Encourage those being diagnosed with breast cancer to seek medical intervention. But, I also feel really uncomfortable in how Elle's been treated because she wrote a book on her life. She's a public figure and there was, you know, in Australia, my goodness, I was, I'm 10 years younger than Elle, but I remember.

[00:12:32] All of the coverage in Australia of Elle in the 80s and 90s. So, Elle's allowed to write a book. Part of her story, like part of my story, and I will be writing another book, is about breast cancer. She's allowed to write about that. And then her decisions around what she did with that diagnosis. She's allowed to share that.

[00:13:03] And there's so much fear that her sharing that will make others turn their back on medical. And that's what I was thinking before I sat down and watched a 60 minute interview in Australia with Elle Macpherson. But then when I was listening to it, couldn't see anywhere in that interview where Elle was saying that.

[00:13:27] Don't do medical. Elle herself had a lumpectomy, medical intervention, and then she went on to different, um, protocols to actually work through and heal from her cancer. So I think there's been sort of two parts of the reaction to Elle. Firstly is around her being a public figure and saying that if someone well known says that they haven't taken medical advice, then everyone else will follow that person, maybe.

[00:14:13] You know, maybe it will have an impact, but then I was thinking, even at 22, I was so young, diagnosed with MS and there was lots of people around who weren't taking medications, but I still did, you know, they didn't influence what my choices were, but for me, my main thing was to be connected with a good Good neurologist who I could trust and build a really trustworthy support network around me.

[00:14:49] So then I thought, you know, if I'd just been diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer and this book had come out, so two years ago, when my world was thrown upside down and I was very vulnerable, if Elle had have come out there, During that time and said what she said, it wouldn't have stopped me going to an oncologist and surgeon, but it would have given me some hope that I could combine the medical with other alternate treatments as well.

[00:15:24] So that's the discussion about what people with influence should or shouldn't be saying. I don't think we can really control what they should or shouldn't be saying. But we can respond to it. And I was really impressed with the statement released by Breast Cancer Network Australia. Not only did they offer support for those feeling triggered or really upset, you know, about the media coverage of Elle Macpherson, they, and I'm going to read it out to you.

[00:15:59] They said they wanted to address the recent media coverage regarding Elle McPherson’s statements about her personal approach to breast cancer treatment. Elle McPherson's choices highlight the deeply personal nature of treatment decisions, Following a breast cancer diagnosis. They talk about respecting Al McPherson's right to share her experience and acknowledge that every breast cancer experience is unique and she has a right to discuss her own breast cancer experience through her lens.

[00:16:39] And they support her right to make the choices she feels are best for her circumstances. And I go on to really highlight that everyone's diagnosis, everyone's treatment path is unique and shaped by their diagnosis. And what I loved about Breast Cancer Network Australia's response was they actually said, you know, let's use this.

[00:17:07] as a way of creating attention to important issues around breast cancer, but they also want to make sure these discussions do not lead to doubt or fear among other people facing similar diagnoses. And then they go on to say, you know, you need to access trusted, evidence based information to guide treatment decisions and provide resources to do that.

[00:17:40] So I was really impressed by Breast Cancer Network Australia, really Responding to all of this noise around Al McPherson, giving her permission, which she should have to share her story, but then not taking it on as our own. But the second part of the response to Al, for me, has been the most concerning.

[00:18:08] So not about her Public figure and being a public figure and her potential influence on how people respond to their diagnosis. But for me, what's been really concerning is the absolute fear and cynicism toward the unknown. And by unknown, I'm talking about different ways people approach illness. So there's this fear, there's mocking, there's anger, there's closed mindedness, there's cynicism, there's aggression towards treatments, natural therapies that lots of people know nothing about, but their immediate response.

[00:18:59] is to be fearful of that and to be angry that someone else is doing something differently and that's what I don't get. I remember the first time I had energy healing back around, it was in 2012 or just, you know, when I was going through the grief of us not having children and I went through that relapse.

[00:19:26] And I remember going home to Andrew saying, oh my goodness, this is making me feel so much better, but I've got no idea what's going on. I said, she's got crystals on me, she's moving her hands, the energy, she's connecting to things in my childhood that I didn't tell her or things that have happened in my life.

[00:19:45] She's talking about chakras. I said, I don't get it. And Andrew is so down to earth and he's like, who cares if you don't understand, if it's making you feel better, then you should understand. Go with it. And from that moment for the last 12 years, energy healing has been part of my path. But if I'd gone into that session fearing and mocking and trying to test out the practitioner as to what she thinks she's doing and whether I trust her or not, and being cynical towards what she's doing, it would never have worked.

[00:20:21] So I just don't get, and looking at the comments on social media, the Anger. And then I was thinking, if you're living with breast cancer like I am, I know anger, fear are no place for inside my body because that's not the environment internally for me to heal.

The Media’s Response to Elle Mcpherson: Fear and Cynicism Towards the Unknown

[00:20:49] Sometimes I think when you're living with an illness, any illness, we need to really analyse what we're being fed in the media. And I'll put in the show notes a link to 60 Minutes Australia. Tracy Grimshaw did an interview with Elle Macpherson. The first time I watched it, I felt uncomfortable. Then the second time I watched it, I just watched the part about breast cancer, and I felt even more comfortable.

[00:21:21] Uncomfortable. And I'm just going to quickly pick apart some parts of it that I didn't feel comfortable with, but I encourage you to watch it and be objective and really see how people exploring different pathways are treated. So, first of all, our conveyed confidence that her cancer won't return, and she was really mocked for doing that.

[00:21:55] But for me, Elle's response makes perfect sense. Logically, think about it. You know, I live with stage 4 breast cancer. I don't know what to do. I did episodes, episode 30 and 32 about I'm not in denial, I know my diagnosis, I've accepted my diagnosis, but part of that acceptance for me is actively pursuing my own wellness and my own healing, and to me it logically makes sense instead of Focusing on the possibility of recurrence for Elle or for me, I am in remission and instead of focusing and fearing that coming back, I'm not going to put my attention there.

[00:22:42] Rather, I am going to keep focusing on being well and know that whatever happens in the future, I will have an impact on that experience. So first of all, I didn't like that. Then, I also felt really uncomfortable with the dismissive tone taken towards Elle explaining she follows her intuition. I do that, you know, and my intuition really played a critical role in my health decisions.

[00:23:23] And, that decision to have a mastectomy. That was actually my intuition. You know, I knew a lumpectomy wasn't going to be right for me. I was nervous. So I said, I want to have my breasts removed. But I think quieting our mind, trying not to be filled with stress and anxiety, following our heart. And that means, you know, following what feels right.

[00:23:52] That's a good place to go because if you're filled with stress and anxiety, you're not going to be making the right decisions about your health and well being. And there's other parts, but I'll just focus on one more part I didn't like. And what I haven't liked in response from so many is, Elle only had Stage 0 Breast Cancer, what would she know?

[00:24:20] And I think that also is a really dangerous type of mindset to have. I live with Stage 4 Breast Cancer, so on the scale of 0 to 4, you know, I'm at the, um, the extreme end, but that doesn't mean I can't learn from Al's experience. As I shared in Episode 9, What Illness or Health Condition is Worse, I talk about, it's not about comparing who has it worse, it's about learning from each other, and for me, I got out of that interview that I really need to up my game.

[00:24:59] I need to learn more about my condition like Al did. Of course, I can't afford to, you know, visit 32 doctors or go to Arizona for eight months. That's okay. Good on her. She could. That's fine. But what I can do is take snippets from that and think, no, I need to continue to learn and grow and I need to evolve in my of why breast cancer interrupted my own life and how to create an environment where my cancer doesn't thrive, but I thrive.

[00:25:39] And the other thing I didn't like was the, I guess Smirks and the eyebrows raised when Elle didn't want to talk about a cure, but rather healing. That's what we're here to do. We're here to learn and grow to heal, as I've already said, on a multidimensional level. You know, it's not about just curing cancer.

[00:26:07] It's not just about eradicating our body from that. It's about healing. It's about evolving.

Challenging the Way We Think About Healing 

[00:26:19] Okay, I could talk about this for ages, but I'll leave it there. But I guess what I really want to leave you with is what I truly believe at the core and what I hope people take from this is that if we are to live well, and that's my aim with MS and with cancer, then we have to challenge how we think about and experience our illness and our life.

[00:26:54] And for me, that's what Elle Macpherson has done, and that's what I take away from this, and I encourage you, if you are filled with anger about what Elle represents, unpack that a bit, and question yourself, is that because you're fearful of the unknown? Is that because You only really deal with things in a logical, rational way.

[00:27:32] That's okay. That's your path, and that's your decision. But I just don't think we gain anything from being filled with anger about someone choosing a different path. And I think we have to have a bit more faith in people to decide what they want to do and what's right for their journey. And I feel like I can have a voice in relation to this because I do live with stage 4 breast cancer and it's not a good diagnosis.

[00:28:05] But I will do everything I can to help others to really challenge how they think about their health and their life. So I've Outlined a few different episodes. Have a look in your show notes, um, about those, because episodes, I talk about, you know, the importance of having an open mind. That's what it comes down to.

[00:28:32] And that was in an early episode, episode 8, and I talk about the first step to healing is embracing change with an open mind. Then, I If you want to do a bit of a binge, episode 9, I talk about what illness or health condition is worse and saying, hey, let's not fall into that trap of comparing each other.

[00:28:58] Rather, let's with an open mind, learn from each other through each other's experience. Then another episode, which would be good for you to Have a listen to is episode 11, Healing Journey Beyond Physical Recovery, because this is what Al was talking about, this is what the question about being cured and Al sort of said, well, she doesn't think about it like that.

[00:29:31] It's about our healing. I also agree with that. And that's what I talk about in Episode 8. 11. That our healing journey is beyond physical recovery. And then, just quickly, my most recent article for Brains Magazine was Not in Denial, Embracing Acceptance and Hope in Health Challenges. So lots of homework for you to do.

[00:29:59] Only joking. Only if you want to, because I really want to, as I always do, unpack some of my opinions. But as I said, my strong belief is that we need to have an open mind as we work out how we approach our illness. And I will always be guided by a medical team, a team I trust, but also I'm not scared to also explore natural therapies as I know together that will help me heal.

[00:30:36] Have a good week and we'll chat really soon.