Wellbeing Interrupted

72: Learning from Ahna de Vena — Global Sleep Health Leader

• Teisha Rose • Episode 72

Share episode

Are You Struggling to Sleep Well? 

 
In this episode of Wellbeing Interrupted, I sit down with Ahna de Vena — a global sleep health leader, educator, and founder of the Sleep & Dream Foundation and REVIVE Global — to talk about why so many of us find sleep difficult, and what we can actually do about it. 

If you’ve ever felt wired at bedtime, scared of the night, or just plain disconnected from rest — this episode will help you see sleep in a whole new way. 

 

Key Episode Takeaways 

  • We all have the ability to sleep well — we just need to remember how. 
  • Quick fixes don’t work: true sleep recovery takes care, time, and compassion. 
  • Rest is still valuable, even if sleep doesn’t come easily every night. 
  • Sensitivity isn’t a weakness — it’s often a clue to what we need. 
  • There is hope, even if you’ve struggled with sleep for years. 

 

Show Resources 

 

About Ahna de Vena 
Ahna de Vena is a global sleep health leader and founder of the Sleep & Dream Foundation. With a rare blend of compassion, innovation, and scientific insight, she’s on a mission to transform how the world values rest. After overcoming her own struggles with insomnia and burnout, Ahna developed Holistic Sleep Therapy™—a deeply human, science-informed approach to sleep recovery. She also leads Revive Global, supporting organizational health and performance, and contributes to the Global Wellness Institute’s Workplace Wellbeing Initiative. Her work is practical, powerful, and profoundly needed. 

 

Send Teisha a text message ❤️🧡💚


Don't forget to Follow Wellbeing Interrupted on your favourite podcast platform.

Discover more by visiting www.hurdle2hope.com/healing-mindset-illness



Always remember to thrive after a life-changing diagnosis... Your Mindset is Everything!


Learn more about the Hurdle2Hope® Roadmap by watching the Mindset Masterclass Reclaim Your Life. It's available now on-demand.

Podcast Website http://www.wellbeinginterrupted.com/


Contact Teisha or Hurdle2Hope® for more information or feedback Contact Us

Are you following @hurdle2hope on social media... I would love to see you there!

Instagram
Facebook
LinkedIn

Transcript Episode 72 Blog  Learning from Ahna de Vena — Global Sleep Health Leader 


[00:00:00] 

Teisha Rose: Hey there, Teisha here and welcome to episode 72 of Wellbeing Interrupted. Hopefully you've had a great week. I come to you again from a hotel room for good. For good reason though, for massive water tanks have been delivered to our property at Daisy Hill. For those of you who don't know, we are living off the grid, so water tanks.

Big water tanks are very necessary, um, and an excavator is there digging for where the tanks are to go. Um, and very noisy. So I thought, um, yeah, a bit tricky doing podcast interviews. With that background, I also had some other meetings in relation to my wellness workshops I'm doing for frontline staff, so back to a hotel room, but.

This. Conversation with Ahna de Vena, is so good. Um, I know you'll get so [00:01:00] much out of it. Ahna is a sleep educator. She's a speaker, a workplace wellness change maker.

She's also the founder of REVIVE Global and the Sleep and Dream Foundation. . . What I love most about this conversation with Ahna is how grounded and gentle her approach is. Ahna doesn't just talk about sleep hygiene. She goes so much more deeply than that.

So if you found yourself lying, awake at night, feeling wired, fearful, scared about what's ahead, feeling really disconnected from rest, have a listen to this episode. I'm positive you'll get lots out of it.

 [00:02:00] 

Teisha Rose: Welcome Ahna.

Thank you so much for joining me on Wellbeing Interrupted. 

Ahna de Vena: Thank you for having me, Teisha. It's really great to be 

here. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, and I'm really looking forward selfishly from for our conversation because. What we're gonna talk about will help me and it will help so many of the listeners do this podcast.

First of all though, I always ask where are we chatting to you from, and just give a little bit about yourself so our listeners can get [00:03:00] to know you. 

Ahna de Vena: So I'm currently in Sydney, in Australia, so that's on almost the most easterly part of Australia. It's a very beautiful part of the world, and at the moment we've got whales.

Going past on their way up for carving, which is really exciting. So I get to see whale jumping out of the ocean quite regularly. Nice. Um, and yeah, I have been doing this work as a sleep therapist and educator for over 20 years now. And, um. Yeah, I find the work so enriching and I work in, in many different, um, sectors.

So I work with companies, I work with individuals, I work with families, I work in crisis accommodation, um, and my deep, deep passion is helping children. So yeah, I, I really love [00:04:00] what I'm doing and, um, and I'm a person that likes simplicity. I love to watch the sunrise. I love it when I get to watch the sunset as well, but that's not as often.

Um, and I love long sleeps. It's winter here, so I am having longer sleeps, which I love. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Beautiful. And yeah, I like that. You do enjoy, I've noticed, and, um, those who've been listening to the podcast know I now live on a hundred acres of land and seeing the sunrise and the sunset is something often we don't do and take that moment and it is, it's such so beautiful.

Um, so yeah. I'm glad we, we have lots, we like similar, so that's good. Um, and when I looked at your details, when I was doing a little bit of research. On your website, you talk about from going, going from sleepless to sleep superstar, and that for 11 years you were stressed 24 [00:05:00] 7 and on the verge of a breakdown.

So can you sort of bring us back to that point in your life and just share, you know, a little bit of what was going on? 

Ahna de Vena: So my insomnia started as a child. I lived in a. Stressful home environment and it was very changeable and unpredictable. So I didn't feel safe and it was hard for me to settle. Um, and I carried that hyper vigilance into my early, early adult life.

And so. What I felt was just constant tension and anxiety. Like I, I didn't know what was coming, that it felt like something not very good was coming all the time. And I crashed in my early twenties. I collapsed and um, [00:06:00] I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. 

Teisha Rose: Mm-hmm. 

Ahna de Vena: And told that I needed medication for the rest of my life.

And, um, I just had this moment of remembering being really alive and full of energy as a like younger child. And something in me said, you can get back to that. Aliveness You can. And I really did like an about face and I studied natural medicine for my own healing, several different forms, and went on a big healing journey.

And in that time I recovered my ability to sleep well and also overcame that, um, autoimmune condition that I was told I'd need to take medication for forever. So. I then realized, wow, if I'd [00:07:00] have been taught about sleep and also self-regulation and being able to release stress at a young age or even in high school, it would've really helped me.

Of course, it wouldn't have gotten rid of the. Trauma, but just on a very practical level, I would've had more skills. And, and also when you think about sleep, you know, we are meant to spend one third of our lives asleep, but we are never given a sleep education. We are never taught about it. We're just kind of expected to know how to do it.

But often we don't have good role models. Um, and we just kind of inherit. Habits that aren't great. And then in this day and age, if you're going with the, you know, mainstream, it's nine in 10 adults have some kind of sleeping challenge. Now that comes outta a recent [00:08:00] um, study done by an organization called The Sleep Charity in the uk.

And I mean, you don't have to ask many people to actually realize that, you know, if you ask 10 people, most of them are gonna tell you that sleep isn't great. Um, yeah, it, it, it, we, we are in the midst of a sleep loss epidemic and it is worsening every year and it's not being taken seriously enough yet. It is, um, gaining a lot more attention.

I. People are starting to think about it, but people are still looking for hacks, quick fixes, pills, um, instead of acknowledging it as an integral part of being well and whole and in harmony with our natural selves and the natural world. And, and if you think about sunrise and sunset. [00:09:00] The reason that we enjoy, you don't even have to watch sunrise and sunset, but have a moment, a minute of acknowledging that the natural world is changing significantly.

We're either entering a phase of dark in the evening or a phase of light, and our bodies are attuned to that at a very deep level, even though we're out of sync now. You know, and, and a lot of people just aren't aware, um, that is actually one of the easiest things that you can do that can help. Bring your body back into a healthy sleep wake rhythm.

But I'm getting ahead of myself now. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, you, you're getting to the answers, but a, a couple of things there. I mean, when you went and explored some different natural therapies and lots of people listening to this [00:10:00] podcast are dealing with. Autoimmune conditions or chronic illnesses, whatever it is, their health challenge.

What are some of the things that, different modalities, I guess, you know, did they prioritize sleep differently, um, than just looking at the quick fix? 

Ahna de Vena: Well, actually, I didn't learn about sleep while I, mm-hmm. Was studying. I studied, I did a diploma of herbology. I studied macrobiotics. Nutrition. Um, I did a counseling diploma and shiatsu and then a Japanese yoga.

It was a whole range of things. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. 

Ahna de Vena: But as I learned those things, I learnt to see my body in a different way and understand it. As this whole system and, and the energetics. So for instance, in [00:11:00] Chinese medicine, they teach like the different seasons we should eat differently, which makes a lot of sense.

You know, when you look at Macrobiotics, there's different foods are available in different seasons and our body is actually doing different things. If we follow, if we actually follow how it feels in the seasons, depending on where we live. I mean. You know, some countries have very extreme seasons. Others they're not as extreme.

But generally we, we, if we check in for instance, we want to go slower in wintertime. So as I began to connect with my body in a way that was very, um, new and present, like I became more and more present. And I think that that presence grows and deepens even now. You know, 30, it's over 30 years now since then, so I, I [00:12:00] feel that we are not taught to listen to ourselves and our bodies and to our environment even.

You know, we live kind of from the neck up in concepts and beliefs and also inherited ways of being, I. Rather than, okay, like, so for instance, my body is so sensitive compared to the rest of my family. It's like, and I recently had a DNA test done that showed me that I'm in the highest bracket of sensitivity to environmental pollutants.

So I can be walking down the road with the rest of my family members and coughing from the car fumes, and they're all just like whistling and fine. You know, or we'll be eating a meal and they'll all be eating it fine, and by the end I've got a stomach ache and they're all okay. And so it's like, [00:13:00] I think there's an understanding of ourselves and also an accepting, because I think a lot of people with autoimmune conditions are very sensitive beings,

and I think that we often compare ourselves. To other more robust beings and tell ourselves there's something really, really wrong with us in a, in a kind of fundamental way, rather than honoring our sensitivity. And so I'll own that. I'm in that highly sensitive person bracket. I remember when I read that book, the Highly Sensitive Person, I was just crying the whole time wishing that.

I'd have been understood and that I'd have understood and honored myself and my sensitivities. And yeah, I just feel that it's, um, that in, in all of my training, I think the greatest [00:14:00] gift that I received was an ability to connect in with myself more deeply and honor myself and my own individual needs.

More deeply. Look, when I was macrobiotic, I tell you a quick story. Yeah. Brown rice is this thing that, you know, there's the, the, is it the cornerstone of macrobiotics? I eat lots of brown rice and I used to eat it thinking this should be, this is good for me, but I'd always get this acidic feeling in my stomach.

And it took me a long time to realize brown rice was really hard for me to digest. And, and then after that realization, I kind of started to explore food from a whole other place. You know, like from a feeling place, how does this meal feel? And, and, and that can change at different times of the year, at different times of the day.

Um, and it's so interesting. We don't. [00:15:00] So few practitioners will say, make a suggestion, say, try this out and notice how it impacts you, and then come back and let me know, you know, and, and so I, in my own practice, working with people, that's something I'm very, very careful about because, you know, not everyone is the same.

And I'm pretty good at reading bodies and body types and mindsets and listening deeply. But always I'll say, you know, this is really about empowering you because for the rest of your life, you're going to feel that around rest and around sleep and recovery, you're gonna have to feel a sense of empowerment rather than like, just feeling like you don't know and you are, um, in, in a sense, helpless and hopeless.

Which most people that come to me are at that point where they say, I've tried everything, nothing works, and they have about 10% faith [00:16:00] that I'm gonna help them. 

Teisha Rose: Excellent. But I love that. And I think, I always tell people I'm an intuitive eater because I just, the same thing is. I don't follow strict diets.

I just follow what feels right when I eat it and what feels right. If it stops me from sleeping at night or if it sits heavy or, yeah. So I definitely am sensitive as well. So I'll put in the show notes. What was the name of the book? Did you say? The Sensitive. Oh, the Highly Sensitive Person. Okay, so we'll put that in the show notes and I'll have a look.

I've got a few credits left on my Audible. That would be really good. Um, because yeah, lots of that sensitivity does help us heal 

Ahna de Vena: and that, and she 

also has a version, the Highly Sensitive Child, which I think is so wonderful for parents of sensitive children. Mm-hmm. Rather than kind of inadvertently [00:17:00] shaming them.

For being sensitive, you know? Yeah. Particularly boys as well. And she points out the value of sensitivity and how 20% of the population needs to be sensitive. And historically, they were the advisors, the priests and priestesses, the ones who were attuned to the more subtle aspects of life. I. And if we didn't have sensitive people in our midst, imagine the world.

You know, there is an immense value and it, and it so helped me because I always felt like I should be more robust and I should be more this and that. And instead, I've been seeing my sensitivity as a strength and just learning how to be in this world. As a [00:18:00] sensitive being. So in the book, she, she teaches that I was already doing a lot of things that she recommended.

Teisha Rose: Mm-hmm. 

Ahna de Vena: Uh, so for instance, I wear earplugs a lot. If I feel overwhelmed, I put in earplugs and I'm calmer instantly because it takes away some of that. I have very acute hearing, so I'm just so aware of it. Everything like right out into the distance. Um, and so that just takes that away. And also, if I go out in public, like into shops or in a cafe, I often wear the earplugs.

They don't take away all the sound, but they reduce the loudness of it. And I just feel my nervous system relaxing so much. I always remember when I was recording my cd, I went into a soundproof room. And there was no one else in it. And I remember the feeling and just thinking, oh, I would so love to sleep in a room like [00:19:00] this.

Teisha Rose: And so, um, with sensitivity, is it more difficult do you think, for people who are sensitive sleeping? Or is that not go hand in hand? 

Ahna de Vena: Look, I would say you can't really generalize. But I would say it's a little bit more challenging when you have a sensitive system. Again, that depends on your world, where you live, your home, your neighbors, like there are so many contributing factors when it comes to sleep.

So I live between here and Northern New South Wales and it's like two different planets here at night. I can't hear one. Critter now. Not one cricket, which is, I mean if you think about it, that's, [00:20:00] there's something not right. You know? We can blame radiation, we can blame pollution, we can blame all kinds of things, but it's not really natural for just to hear no night critters.

I don't think, um, whereas in Northern New South Wales, it's like a symphony that surrounds you and hold, like I can feel it holding me. I know I just said that I'd love to sleep in a completely silent room, and I would, but I think that that night sound also can become a kind of beautiful silence. Because it's, you know, unless there's frogs, I have to admit when there's a big frog in there that's, you know, wanting to dominate the symphony, it's not that fun.

And he is not attuned with everyone. Um, but when they're all kind of in harmony and singing together, we are really held in that sound and the [00:21:00] vibration of that sound. And it can be so lulling, you know, and a lot of people aren't comfortable with dead silence. Especially this day and age because that stimulation that we're addicted to that continuous input, and then we don't know what to do when we've had input all day and then we switch it off.

And it's like a, for many people, they don't stop the input until they put their head on their pillow. A lot of people take the input to the pillow, right? 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. 

Ahna de Vena: Um, and even keep it on under their pillow a good 50%. I think it's even more now, sleep with their phone. So, you know, if you're sleeping with your phone, I do want to say you are not only decimating your sleep, you are putting your brain at very [00:22:00] high risk of forming a tumor.

So stop. Immediately. 

Teisha Rose: Okay. Okay. Okay.

Uh, it is funny because we do, I mean, I listen to podcasts not mine to put my, me to sleep, but, you know, just radio ones to stop the noise of someone who might be snoring next. To me, um, and focus on that, but you're right. Um, and I've found we live in nature now and it's amazing. And even coming in the mornings, hearing the birds and all, it's so beautiful to naturally wake up to that.

Um, so yeah, it makes a huge difference. 

Ahna de Vena: Um, are you finding that 

you're sleeping more in tune with nature now? Like going to sleep closer to sunset and rising? Closer to Sunrise. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I mean, last night I said, I'm not gonna bed. It's like seven 30 and he is like, I'm tired and we're in a caravan.

So, you know. Um, but yeah, [00:23:00] absolutely. And just noticing, noticing the different, um. Yeah, what's making noises at different, um, times of year as well. The seasons is very much as well. And um, and then yeah, at night compared to the morning and what birds are talking to each other. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing.

Um, it feels very different. So when you talk about your approach to sleep therapy, how would you describe that? 

Ahna de Vena: So my approach is quite. Comprehensive is, is a, is a good word. Mm-hmm. It's, it's very multifaceted. So I look at what is happening on both a superficial level and a deep level, and also in terms of the environment for a person.

And everyone starts in a different place because we're all so unique. Um, and then I address each one. Each aspect in an order [00:24:00] that makes sense and that that is the most beneficial for that person. So at the moment I've got like someone who's a very young mother who wants to have her second child and she is in a very different situation to an.

An elder, well, he is not elder. Elder. He is about 60, but he's a leader. He travels for work. He teaches actually, um, wellness and his needs are very different to hers. But, but they both need kind of similar things addressed, but in each, they present differently. Um, so there's generally three phases. And it'll generally go for about three months, sometimes four.

But the first month is about bringing the stress baseline down while [00:25:00] they learn about their body and about sleep in relation to themselves and their stage of life. And. Also shift their environment to be extremely supportive of their body and resting and waking. So there's a, a kind of reorganization, uh, coming down out of high stress, which every body is in, who is sleep deprived.

We have internal inflammation from sleep deprivation, so we need to. Get very good at activating the parasympathetic, and I have a lot of ways that I work with people to help them integrate that into their day in a way that's easy and natural and that they can just keep using forever. And that is always something that's suited to them.

So he needs something very different to the young woman, you know? But I actually love finding what those things are for each person and. [00:26:00] Just equipping them with those skills. So then the second phase is that they learn a lot of sleep skills. I kind of throw it all into that pile of sleep skills, and I have so many that I teach them, and by that stage, their sleep's already started improving.

So then we start working quite seriously on mindset. If you start working initially on mindset, there can be quite big resistance because. I'm not about positive thinking mindset. I'm about having a perspective that is acknowledging and focusing on the fact that we all have a natural ability to sleep well.

Like you have that ability, but we tend to spin our wheels, focusing on not being able to sleep when we've had insomnia for any length of time, and that is our focus. So we need to. Put the brakes on and shift focus [00:27:00] and then really start focusing in a different direction. And in the beginning, that is a very subtle process.

You cannot force that with someone who has been constantly telling themselves, I can't sleep. I may never sleep well again, I'm always tired. You know, all these kinds of things, which are very, very normal. Um. It takes time. And generally there needs to be some improvement before you can deeply address how they're seeing and thinking about and anticipating sleep.

And the third phase is really like solidifying everything. And in that phase, I really like it when they hit a bump because they get coached through that bump and they take that with them. For their life, because we're always gonna hit bumps, right? You know, life's not some pleasure cruise on a [00:28:00] perfect ocean.

That never changes. We're, we're going to be hit with things. We're going to have bumps in the road, and our sleep may dip, but I coach them through a dip. I like to coach them long enough that there's a dip. So I'll often let it go a bit longer. So they can experience that and feel empowered bringing themselves back from that.

Um, and so I love it when that's part of the, the journey. And generally it will be, um, yeah, and then they just feel like a completely new person. Their aliveness is at a level. It hasn't been for years. Usually people I work with have a minimum of five years. Of poor sleep. I would say the average is 10. So I've worked with people with 30 years of sleeping issues, five years [00:29:00] of sleeping issues, you know, all kinds.

But I would say the average is around 10, maybe eight. Um. Yeah. Does that answer your question? 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, no, it's good. And again, I mean, that brings in the holistic, um, you know, approach as well, which I think for anyone listening with an illness is the same theme. You know, it's looking holistically about what your illness is, but also things like not being able to sleep because that then feeds back into.

You are not being well. So it's so important. So important. Yeah. We 

Ahna de Vena: don't acknowledge how much sleep deprivation affects every aspect of our health, our mental health, our outlook, our relationships, our libido, our digestion, our weight, everything. And we are not, you know, we always look at diet or we look at exercise or, [00:30:00] you know, mindfulness.

Sleep really needs to be at the head of the table, in my opinion, because you can't even make good food choices when you're sleep deprived because the peptides that regulate appetite go completely skewed. You know, you find yourself eating things you wouldn't usually eat, um, and you don't have a lot of control, and you often eat more as well.

And then your ability to assimilate and digest is also diminished. So, and then exercise. Yeah, usually people either don't exercise when they're sleep deprived 'cause they're tired, or they exercise in a way that stresses them out more, stresses their system out more, takes them further into adrenal fatigue and worsens the sleep.

But they think, oh, if I exhaust myself, I'm gonna sleep better. And that's actually the opposite is true. So yeah, there's so many aspects of sleep that. [00:31:00] Impact us, and I think anyone battling autoimmune diseases, I would say most people I know who are battling autoimmune are aware that they need good quality rest because they feel so acutely the difference when they don't get it.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And that sort of brings me to, you know, that's right. It's really tough and I'll, I'll use me as an example, um, in terms of sleeping when you've been given a really difficult diagnosis. So sleeping when I was diagnosed with my stage four breast cancer, that's tough because that then your mind's racing and they're that.

Fear and having different dreams and you know, being really scared of what's ahead. So that makes sleep for lots. Listening really difficult when you're going through those really scary moments. So, yeah. I'm assuming, you know, people [00:32:00] coming to you would be, you know, have some of those triggers as well.

Ahna de Vena: Yeah. What, what just came to me as you were speaking is. Um, I had feedback once about my CD and, and this person said to me, oh, you're teaching people how to die. And, and when you think about sleep, we are surrendering and, and sleep was called in the scientific world, a little death up until about 1950s and.

Science didn't know much about sleep and they used to call it this a little death. And um, we don't think enough about that. And I think there is, like you said, like if you get a diagnosis that is bringing death to the forefront, you know, we're all going to die. But I think we all die every night. [00:33:00] You know, we all surrender to what is holding us.

In this life every night and that life force that continues keeping our body alive, that continues breathing us, that continues beating our heart while we're sleeping, we surrender to that. And I would even dare say we kind of merge with that while we sleep. And so when you said, you know, it's hard to sleep after a diagnosis that brings death.

Or uncertainty to the forefront. It kind of amplifies what falling asleep is. You know, ultimately it's a very deep trust and when, when that's wobbly or know if we're afraid of death, um, I have had quite a few clients whose partner died and. So they had to get used to [00:34:00] being in a bed on their own. And there was a lot in that for them to feel safe without that other body there.

Um, and that's a process, that's quite a deep process. Actually love working with people when the, when the, the main, cause, I mean. There's usually a main cause, but then there'll be a lot of other kind of minor contributors that are holding it, propping it all up, but when the main cause is something very deep and Yeah, and then the, the shift that they experience stays with them and they, rather than feeling afraid or alone, they actually start to feel this very deep connection with life force and.

They feel held and supported by that life force always, which is not something I talk about to all of my clients, but it's something they all [00:35:00] experience and will often express at the end, oh, this is much more than sleep. Um, you know, I, I feel like my entire life, my entire outlook is. Is different and, and so yeah, that I have a deeper aspect of my work that doesn't even really need to be described because it's felt, and I've always loved that it's sleep is my, is my focus because there is so much possibility for depth and breadth and yeah, I just, I love the places that I go with my clients and the level of change that they experience.

You know, is phenomenal. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. I love that. No one's ever explained it to me like that before. Like the fact that it is, it's that surrender. And that trust and feeling supported. Because if you take that, then often it's when we wake up at [00:36:00] two o'clock in the morning, our heads, you know, mind's racing, worried about the next day, the next week, worried about, you know, whatever it is.

But if you surrender to that and know that you're supported and have trust in what's ahead, then yeah. That helps you fall back asleep. 

Ahna de Vena: Yeah. And, and one of the things you can do that's not. A mental process because I think when the mind is lost, you could say, oh, like when you're on a thought train, yeah, it's going a hundred miles an hour.

You know, how do you get off? You can't often do it. Through the mental, because the mental is in a sense, out of control. You know, it's on a speeding train and it's taking you so far away from where you currently are in your warm, cozy bed. And so one of the things you can do is let your thoughts be wherever they are.[00:37:00] 

But just bring as much of your attention as you can to your body that is in the bed and say, how does my body feel right now in bed? What is my body in touch with? Right now in bed, oh my pillow. It feels so soft on my cheek, or, wow, my mattress is really holding me and I can feel how gravity is helping me sink into the mattress.

Or my pajamas feel very silky on my skin or the covers and how they feel. Like I love winter 'cause I use my weighted blanket and, and I just feel like I'm being hugged and, and then if your mind pulls you out, you just gently say, oh, I'm just going to be. Here and now in my body and notice what my body is experiencing right now.[00:38:00] 

Oh, there's this cozy warmth. Oh, there's, and then just noticing all the things you know. And with children, I help them play what I call the softness game. Adults love this as well, but it's just basically putting your attention on everything that's soft. That you're in touch with, which in bed there's often quite a few soft things.

Yeah. Um, and then when your mind's running off, it's okay. Like, don't resist it. Don't judge it. Don't feel bad about it. Oh my mind's doing that thing again. I'm just going to bring my attention to my body. And you can notice that you can have thoughts kind of on the periphery. Out on the train, and then another part of your attention that can build and get stronger on your body.

And then the quality of your attention that is on your body is another thing as well. A lot of people feel resistant or judgmental [00:39:00] about what they're experiencing physically. Like maybe there's physical pain, and then how are you relating to that? So there's all these subtle levels of how you are with your wholeness.

And, you know, our thoughts are only one aspect of ourselves, and when we're in bed, that tends to dominate and we tend to not have a very kind and nurturing voice, um, our inner voice when we're in bed as well. So there's a lot of things that you can develop internally so that that time in bed is enjoyable.

Um, and expansive and enriching, and I'll even say pleasurable, um, because a lot of people, they don't feel okay being awake in bed. They're like, if I'm not asleep, it's not good. It's not okay. It, and then they get really stressed. So yeah, there's so much to it, which I, as you can [00:40:00] probably hear, I just, I love my work.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, it is amazing and it's good that, and I'm all about giving people hope, you know, that they can have an impact on something that's not going perfectly to plan and there's so much from chatting to you that can be done, um, in relation and can tap into. Our own, you know, ability to sleep and heal, which is, which is great.

And then I guess too, and when I, you know, go from my, my cancer example to my MS example of living with ms, it's sometimes that as well. And others living with a health condition will relate to this. You feel really tired, but your body hasn't done much, so you're not physically just falling asleep.

Because Yeah, if I'm going through an MS relapse, you know early on when I was, you weren't doing anything. I was lying in the hospital bed for months and months and unable to move. So that was [00:41:00] really difficult as well to get to sleep without medication. 

Ahna de Vena: Yep. Yeah, and that's where. 

I teach people about the value of rest and deep rest.

So in a situation like that, learning how to be restful and appreciating deep rest when you can't get the amount of sleep that a tired body that's been active gets. That's a whole other mindset, you know? And in the beginning when I'm, when I'm working with clients, helping them to recognize the value of deep rest and be very good at it, you know, because you can say to people rest, and they sit down with their phone or they sit down with Netflix, or they even sit down on a call or whatever, and they think of it as resting, but.

It's not, we have a lot of kind of pseudo rest [00:42:00] right now, which is actually stimulation. Um, so having, helping people to acknowledge and appreciate and be good at deep rest is, is something that is an integral part of a sleep recovery and sleep revival. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, that's really good just to think about it differently because you're right, you're not going to be exhausted physically, but you shouldn't, you know, tell yourself off for not being able to fall into that deep sleep.

Yeah. Um, so. I love chatting to you, Ahna. Um, just because it just gives so much more thought, um, to what we can have an impact on, and that it's not just Googling, you know, a quick tip on how to get to sleep. And if you do A, B and C, then you'll be fine because it's so much more complex than that. Um, , I'm [00:43:00] appreciating from our conversation, so.

If someone was wanting to tap into you, um, and in terms of connecting with you and the work you do, how can they find out more? Also, you've mentioned the cd. I didn't realize that. So have you got something that we can access or Yep, 

Ahna de Vena: yep. So my cd, sleep Well Tonight, which is actually on Qantas for four years.

Wow. People to sleep while they're up in the clouds. Um. That's available. I can leave a link, um, that's on Gum Road, but all of it is, um, accessible through my website. ahnadevena.com. That's h uh, sorry, A-H-N-A-D-E-V-E-N-A.com. But even if you just type in Ahna AHNA and sleep. You'll find me. Um, I'm also the founder of the Sleep and Dream Foundation, which is a charity that helps children and women who've [00:44:00] experienced domestic violence or trauma to be able to sleep.

And then I have a, also an organization called Revive Global that helps companies with my, um. My program Sleep to Thrive, so, and I'm just building out two programs, one's called Sleep Care and Trauma Recovery and the other one is Sleep Care in Private Practice. And so they are courses that are going to help practitioners and frontline workers integrate sleep care.

Into their work. Um, I'm extremely excited about these offerings, so yeah, if you're someone who wants one-on-one help, I've got a page on that website, which just talks about my one-on-one program. And then if you're a therapist interested in including or learning about sleep care for your clients, just keep an eye on what I'm offering and that that is going to be coming.

Teisha Rose: That's amazing. You're so busy and I just love, um, [00:45:00] yeah, we were talking before, we are not doing this on YouTube, but I would like everyone to see your, you know, you're radiating in terms of how excited you getting about what you're doing, and that becomes contagious and that's, you know, gives everyone hope that we can get excited about sleep and know that we can have an impact.

On that. Um, which is so important as we've said, for our healing, so we can't ignore it. Um, and something I need to, well, I've got a lot better at, but it's taken me, you know, living off the grid on a hundred acres of land. Um, although having said that, I'm in a motel room and very excited about being here for a good night's sleep tonight.

Yeah. Um, so I guess as we close, um, the episode. Is there any last minute advice? So if someone's listening and thinking, God, I don't want to be in that stress again tonight when I hop into bed and I'm thinking, no, I'm not gonna fall asleep, or I'm gonna have broken sleep, sort of, what's something they may be able to do?[00:46:00] 

Ahna de Vena: Well, as I said, 

you know, it is a multi-pronged process to recover your sleep. If you've had insomnia for any length of time. And I would say the number one thing you need to do is to take sleep seriously, and also to acknowledge that you have a 24 hour sleep wake cycle and the things you do while you're awake in that upward wave impact the downward wave.

And to let yourself come down, like think of yourself like a plane. You've been flying through the day and it's not until you turn everything off that you start to land. People turn things off and expect to be landed, but there is a process and you can think of it like landing a plane. You can [00:47:00] think of it like crossing a bridge, and that process needs to happen.

So understanding that it's not until you turn everything off that your body starts to change gears, change hormonal state, and be able to sleep well. And when you acknowledge that and then commit to learning how to do that well, some people, as I said that some people are gonna know. Exactly what I mean.

And they're gonna know what to do. Other people are not going to know. So if you are one of those people, commit to learning, this is a lifelong need. You know, we are meant to spend a third of our lives asleep. That's 30 years for the average woman. Um, and that, you know, without knowing how to do it. So get a sleep education, whether it's [00:48:00] from me, whether it's from someone else, someone that you resonate with, and just put time, 10 minutes a day or commit to a program, whatever it takes, because nighttime rolls around every 24 hours.

Sleep time rolls around every 24 hours, and when we are kind of lost, it feels horrible. But when we have that installed, it feels empowering and calming at the same time. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, I love that. And I think we do. We do need to take it seriously as you said, because that can help us heal. It's so important. So thank you so much for sharing all your insights, all the links I'll put on the blog we have for each episode each week, as well as on the show notes wherever you are listening to this episode from.

So thank you again, Ahna. Really enjoyed having a chat. 

Ahna de Vena: My 

pleasure. It's really, really great to speak with you.

Teisha Rose: Okay, so like [00:49:00] me. I hope you really enjoyed that. Chat with Ahna.

 I know I, over that 45 minutes or so, got such a deeper appreciation for how important sleep is. It's not something we should just be doing, but it really is a part of our healing. I love the analogy of the plane coming down to land. I thought about that as I was getting ready for bed last night. I remember, like, I looked at my watch and I thought, okay, I've got an hour before I need to go to bed, so I should do a little bit more on my computer.

 , A little bit more work. And I thought, uh, that's not. Getting ready for bed and not getting ready for a good night's sleep. So I didn't do that. , And I know I'll be thinking of that analogy of the plane coming down to land each night. , So if you want to learn more about what Ahna does, you can visit, as she mentioned her website, [00:50:00] ahnadevena.com. Remember, Ahna is spelt AHNA and if you just put that in Google, so Ahna and sleep, all of her details will come up. I'll also put the links in the show notes below and include her cd. Also , the book she mentioned, the highly sensitive person. I think that's all, everything will be in the show notes.

Also, I guess, share this episode. If you know someone in your family, a friend, struggling to sleep, whether they've got a health condition or not, share this episode. As I know, like we have, I hope they'll get lots out of it. So have a good week filled with lots of rest. , And , I'll chat to you next week.

 [00:51:00] 

People on this episode

Head Shot

Teisha Rose

Host