Season 2 Episode 6: Autistic Advocate Michael Coles: Burnout, Workplace Challenges & Inclusion

What does it really feel like to be autistic in a world that wasn’t built for neurodivergent minds? 

In this powerful episode, Teisha sits down with Michael Coles — autistic advocate, speaker, and host of The Deep Dive Podcast — for a real and honest conversation about what it's like to navigate life, work, and relationships while being neurodivergent. 

Michael opens up about experiencing autistic burnout, masking, and why the workplace often falls short in supporting neurodivergent individuals. He also shares how he’s building a life that fits him — not the other way around — and what true inclusion actually looks like. 

Whether you’re autistic yourself, supporting someone who is, or simply ready to learn, this episode is full of insight, understanding, and hope. 

Key Takeaways: 

• What autistic burnout feels like — and how it’s different from general burnout 
• Why masking is exhausting and harmful in unsupportive environments 
• The role of self-acceptance in healing and authenticity 
• How workplaces can do better for neurodivergent employees 
• Why community and lived experience matter in driving change 

Show Resources: 

• Michael's Linktree: linktr.ee/michaelcoles 
• Explore his podcast & speaking: deepdiveau.net 
• Connect with Michael on Instagram: @thedeepdiveau 

About the Guest 

Michael Coles is an autistic advocate, speaker, and host of The Deep Dive Podcast. With diagnoses spanning autism, ADHD, and expressive/receptive language disorders, he brings lived experience and vulnerability to every conversation — including those around burnout, inclusion, and the need for better systems. 

Michael is passionate about helping autistic people live authentically and supporting workplaces to become truly inclusive. He’s currently building programs that foster understanding, not just awareness. 

Unexpected hurdles interrupt all of our lives. It is how you respond that will define your experience.

To find out how Hurdle2Hope can support you or your organisation please visit hurdle2hope.com.

I would love to connect with you, Teisha.

Also, are you following @hurdle2hope on social media... I would love to see you there!

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Transcript

Teisha Rose: [00:00:00] Hey there, Teisha here and welcome to The Hurdle2Hope® Show here in the background. This time you can see, I'm not sure if I'm cutting the top of it off. Um, hang on, I'll do that. And you can see that beautiful tree, that tree I often take photos of because it looks beautiful when the sun is setting. So I should do an introduction, during sunset one time.

But hopefully you've had a good week. It has actually got a bit of cabin fever here in the caravan because it was very wet for a couple of days. Very windy, but we survived that. No trees fell down, so that was good. Um, and yeah, very happy that it's a little bit chilly, but it is, as I record this, the first day of spring, so that's very exciting for us living here in Australia.

On today's show, we have the incredible Michael Coles. Michael is an autistic advocate. He's a speaker. He's also a host of a podcast, [00:01:00] The Deep Dive Podcast.

That really explores the nuance experiences of neurodivergent individuals. So I love having guests that I can learn from, and you can as well. That's what Michael does. He brings us into his world and we can all learn so much because as I become more aware of this space, we really do live in a world that is difficult to n navigate if you are neurodivergent. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. We talk about experiences in the workplace, socially relationships. Um, so yeah, enjoy the conversation and as always, I will be back after the interview.

 [00:02:00] welcome Michael. Thank you so much for joining me here on The Hurdle2Hope® Show 

Michael Coles: Thank you, uh, so much, Teisha. It's actually great to be here and I didn't even find out about The Hurdle2Hope® Show until very recently. So it's actually really good to find out some more, uh, of these creators that are actually doing some wonderful work in this space.

Teisha Rose: And for those of you listening to us from out of Australia, I am right down the bottom of Australia in Victoria on a hundred acres of land, very cold at the moment. And Michael is on the sunny Gold Coast. So our lives are bit different at the moment.

Well, 

Michael Coles: it all depends [00:03:00] on, you know, the time of winter. Sometimes we do get very cold in the mornings and stuff like that, and it turns out to be a really lovely day. Um, other times it can be you know, just over 20 degrees. So it's, it's still comfortable to sleep, but it's not sort of overly sort of like, you know, cold.

So, yeah. So it does vary according to where you are in Queensland. 

Teisha Rose: Yes. And for perspective the dogs bowl full of water was frozen this morning. It was very cold, very cold.

Michael Coles: I've had suffered showers that iced up, so yeah, that's not pleasant either. No, no, no.

Teisha Rose: Um, so Michael, can I ask you, how would you like to introduce yourself and what do you think is important for people to understand about you?

Michael Coles: Okay, so I'll basically tell you a little bit of a backstory about me. Yeah. Um, I got diagnosed with a condition called P-D-D-N-O-S, which is post developmental disorder, not otherwise specified. Uh, back when I was three, back in 1978, um, I was [00:04:00] diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in 2010, when I was 35.

Rediagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. Um. In 2017, um, also got diagnosed with expressive language disorder and receptive language disorder, uh, in 2024. And I just got recently diagnosed with my ADHD diagnosis. So I'm officially AuDHD. Um, I had a meltdown a, a very big autistic meltdown back in November, 2023, uh, where I had to sort of quit full-time work because basically there was, um, there was a lot of changes with, in relation to my full-time job at that particular time.

Um, what actually occurred was basically sort of two of the, uh, the people that I worked really close with and understood my autism actually left. So what the story was that basically I got my job through disability employment provider at the particular time back in 2019. Um, then what, what actually occurred was basically I sort of like, you know, [00:05:00] they didn't understand how I worked, how my autism worked and all that type of thing.

So I decided to basically sort of like, you know, try and sort of ask questions and. With that particular job, I needed to sort of make sure that everything was a hundred percent right and everything was actually sort of like, you know, making sure that every sort of single client had different sort of expectations and wanna make sure everything was okay.

But the problem was that basically this new person had their own ideas of how to do it, and then sort of like, you know, I was basically sort of lumped with stuff that I wasn't really trained for, and they, the, the accommodations that I had were basically ignored. So what I did was I tried to explain it in a few meetings and stuff like that.

I had written documents, uh, Working with Michael Document and how my autism affects me and how my autism affects you. So they had sort of like, you know, documentation to be able to do that. When I first got my job back in 2019, that I, they got the report from the psychologist and [00:06:00] basically that's that're basically what, they needed to do to be able to sort of like, you know, have, uh, work with me effectively. But the problem was also sort of like, there was sort of issues in relation to, uh, one of my children getting discriminated and all that type of thing. And also , them not understanding that, and also the fact that my job role actually changed, but then there was wasn't any training to actually sort of do the job effectively. So the problem was that basically sort of like spiraled, I spiraled and basically I thought worst case scenario and stuff like that, I was gonna basically sort of lose my job and all that type of thing.

But basically back in November the second, 2023, my brain said basically enough, and basically I didn't wanna do this job anymore. So basically I, I tried to plough through, but the problem was that basically I, I plowed through, but that was the wrong thing to do. I rang 13HEALTH, which is the Healthline in Queensland, and I was basically telling 'em, I was like, you know, um, basically sort of like I.

Fingers tingling, [00:07:00] all that type of thing. And I I was, you know, I was in a really bad way at that particular time and they called an ambulance. I had to go to hospital at that particular stage. So that's basically my story in a nutshell.

Teisha Rose: That's amazing and I think it's really important for people to hear a story like that because the impact of not having the right environment for you, that's just immense.

Michael Coles: The right environment, also the right accommodations to be able to do your job effectively.

So that's, I think that's the biggest problem.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. So in that, because we'll go back to, you know, childhood stuff later, now that we are chatting about this, this is great. In terms of with your workplace, what are some of the things that you would've liked your manager, like new manager to do, or colleagues to do?

Michael Coles: Well, I tried to sort of like, you know, have meetings with them and sort of like explain, uh, what it was basically so I needed to do and stuff like that. Um, with my previous manager, what they did was, [00:08:00] uh, I was invited because I worked fairly closely with them. If there was any problems, I could actually sort of video chat with them and basically just talk to what issues and stuff like that I had at particular, particular time. And then basically sort of like try and work through those issues so we can get that right. And that worked really well in the past. But the problem was that basically this new manager had their own way of doing things and I, I think there was some secret sort of things that I wasn't really sort of aware of, and I wasn't really sort of like, you know, brought in on and stuff like that.

So they were trying to sort of like, you know. I felt like it was being pushed out, but I didn't know why it was being pushed out. Um, because, you know, they just didn't tell me. So I just, I really hated that and stuff like that. And I was trying to sort of like, you know, just trying to sort of get above of it at all.

But then , they were trying to sort of literally, burn me out and that's when the autistic meltdown actually, and the burnout actually happened.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, and [00:09:00] I hadn't been aware of that until chatting to a previous guest as well. And also Giarne, who was on my podcast, uh, a few weeks ago talking about burnout, for people living with autism.

Is that something, is that what the tingling was and all? Was that actual Yeah, it was of 

Michael Coles: burnout and stuff like that. And I was just, you know, I was in a really bad way at the time and, and then basically sort of my wife. But was basically sort of telling me at that particular stage to go to a GP and get some stress leave, and get some stress leave signed off.

But obviously , the problem was basically sort of, my parents always told me to sort of work at a hundred percent, but the problem was basically I was working at a hundred percent, sort of like, you know, literally. And you can't do that forever. Doesn't work that way because you can't work at a hundred percent for, you know, just ages and ages and ages and stuff like that without burning out.

So it's, it just doesn't work that way. And I think a lot of employers don't understand that.[00:10:00] 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, a hundred percent. And then they don't get the best from you.

Michael Coles: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you 

wanna get the best out. You wanna get the best outta yourself, and also they get best outta the employer. So it's sort of a two way, always a two way street.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And that two way street involves communication. Exactly. And finding out, all your employees are different and finding out how to accommodate that.

Michael Coles: And also sort of like, you know, working out their ways of actually doing things because, there's no one way of doing things.

It's better to have that collaboration to get the right result out of you because it's sort of like, you know, the, the collaboration is actually the best way of actually sort of getting the right result. Yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing and stuff like that, that a lot of employers ignore straight off the bat.

Teisha Rose: And with invisible disabilities or like me with MS, which was very visible. It is, it's really hard to get people to understand what you need.

Michael Coles: Yeah. And I think like it's a shame that sort of like, you know, I'm trying to [00:11:00] sort of like create a business at the moment where I can do that one-on-one training and support and all that type of thing so we can get the best outta the autistic and ADHD employee because a lot of the time they're not supported. And I think sort of like having that support is really helpful and really beneficial to the employer. So it's, it's time for actually sort of a bit of change and trying to sort of work, work towards those type of things, and trying to make, make things work for the employee and the employer so they can make things sort of work for the work for each other and stuff like that.

So that's probably the best thing.

Teisha Rose: And I think too, you know, lots of people do wanna do the right thing and they need to be educated, as well.

Michael Coles: Yeah. And that's why I'm also doing the public speaking in relation to autistic burnout, because not a lot of people learn about autistic burnout and , the differences between typical burnout and autistic burnout because it's very, very different. And a lot of people sort of like, you know, the masking thing is so detrimental to [00:12:00] their own health if they sort of do it for far too long. So I think sort of having the, uh, accessibility to de-mask and be who you, who, who you authentically, authentically are.

Basically, yeah. Sorry about my sort of like, you know, stuttering and all that type of thing.

No, that, that's fine.

, So just, just trying to sort of make sure that your, your authe your, your authentic self, if that makes sense. Sorry. Yeah, no, that's, I'm a bit tongue tied at the moment. Yeah, no, that's all right.

Teisha Rose: Um, I lost my voice for over a year. Through muscle tension dysphonia, so people know my voice sounds really strange sometimes. Mm-hmm. So that's all, all good. But I do like that about that authenticity because it is exhausting, um, trying to hide. I know it's exhausting. trying to pretend to walk okay. Um, so I assume you trying to, fit into an environment that's not accommodating and then trying to pretend you're not different. That would be exhausting.

Michael Coles: Yeah, and I think sort of the, the biggest thing for me [00:13:00] is I think in the past they're trying to make sure you do things in, in the one way and all that type of thing.

It just doesn't work anymore. I think sort of like having different sort of needs and, and validating those needs to be able to sort of make sure that they can be optimal in terms of their health and wellbeing. I think it's so, so essential to have that. And also , they've got different needs in terms of, um, parenting and all that type of thing because, uh, autism and ADHD is usually hereditary, so you've gotta sort of consider that.

You know, um, sorry if I'm saying, you know, a lot, but, basically your children have those different type of types of needs or appointments that you have to go to as well to be able to optimize their needs as well. So you gotta be there for them as well.

And also the training is so important with them because not a lot of people have that training to be able to sort of like, you know, deal with meltdowns and [00:14:00] shutdowns and all that type of thing. And, and not a lot of people sort of know about that. So it's essential to sort of like realize that people need to have that training and support and all that type of thing when they when they have those issues prop up.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, a hundred percent. Because I didn't even know. And, after your episode, I'll be on the next week's show will be Laticia, who we both know and Laticia in terms of putting together an app which helps to understand children who, are neurodivergent. So, I think that's really important because we were talking about the difference between it's not a tantrum, it's a, a sensory overload or a meltdown.

Michael Coles: Yeah. It's basically an overload and basically you need to sort of like, you know, take yourself away from the situation to be able to , calm yourself down. And I think it's so important to have.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about then, what was your experience like?

We've talked about your experience in the workplace, [00:15:00] but take us back, in terms of growing up. Did you feel different and did you feel like your experiencing the world in a way that others didn't quite understand?

Michael Coles: I felt like it was quirky and weird, but I like being quirky and weird. It's sort of like, you know, being my authentic self and I like to sort of be who I am and.

And stuff like that. So I think sometimes that sort of, some people either didn't understand that or some people did understand that and just basically that's who Michael is and stuff like that. And you know, sometimes we do like Michael because of that. And sometimes I, I was bullied because of it, so.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, 

Michael Coles: I think it all depends on the, sort of like the person involved, but, um, I did sort of feel like I was different. I mean, especially with my relationships, because I didn't have relationship I I proper relationship until it was like my early thirties or my late, my late twenties actually it was 29.

Sort of exact. Um, but you know, we had a long relationship for [00:16:00] like, , about six years and then sort of six months into a marriage basically my first wife walked out. I didn't sort of know about my Aspergers in like great detail until that particular time, but I'm lucky enough now to actually sort of like, I've, I'm Mar I've married again.

Mm-hmm. But she was well aware about my, my Aspergers syndrome and basically trying to , know about that and all that type of things, so. . I think, my wife now, she did actually know that I was Aspergers. I had Aspergers.

Mm-hmm. But, you know, I was looking at that as a crux at that particular time. But then I actually grew from that over that particular time. And now I've obviously got a daughter that sort of like, , has autism and ADHD as well we can actually help support her with that. So we've actually learned more as we go.

We went along, but obviously I've been learning and growing and stuff like that as things have evolved. I think [00:17:00] one in four also have autism, ADHD or neuro divergent trait. So I think sort of now, because there's now more acceptance and now more sort of knowledge about it think sort of it's now more people tending to now get formally diagnosed to get that, that support in the first place. But now I think everybody else knows what it is and stuff like that. Or more people know what it is. There's more support now compared to what there was when in the eighties and seventies, eighties and nineties when basically sort, there wasn't that support there.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, and that's a real positive, so. At the beginning you mentioned you then got rediagnosed. What was the motivation to get a new diagnosis? 

Michael Coles: Well, at that time it was like when I got Aspergers or when I got diagnosed with Aspergers. It was very much stigmatized at the moment. Um. And I didn't sort of like engage in therapy at the time because [00:18:00] I felt it was very, it was very stigmatized.

, I was trying to sort of make sure that I was trying to be as normal as I can, but, you know, at the same, but the same time, my workplace, my former workplace, uh, before I had the , the current meltdown, um basically sort of told me that I wasn't concentrating and all that type of thing.

So, and I knew was because my Aspergers and stuff like that, had those autistic traits and stuff like that, that I had, uh, that they were noticing. So I needed to go back to, I needed to engage in therapy and basically get a report. So basically they sort of knew my sort of like, quirks and all that type of thing and what, what support that I needed.

. But the problem was that also at that particular stage, I think there was sort of like some people who didn't understand that the, at the particular time, and I needed to have so much support to be able to just work through my sort of like, you know, quirks and traits and all that type of [00:19:00] thing to make sure I wasn't as anxious mm-hmm. Or wasn't as sort of like, you know, as like, how do I describe it? It's not quite, yeah. Not quite as anxious to a degree. I think but it did take me a lot of time, like up until now, to be able to fully sort of know how to demask properly and I didn't even know that until after my meltdown and I got some, extra support and extra reports to be able to sort of know exactly how my brain actually works. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Okay. And that extra support through psychologist or. 

Michael Coles: Well with psychology, speech therapy, and also occupational therapy.

So, um, I only had psychology up until late 2023 and then sort of like I, I started seeing a occupational therapist and a speech therapist only at the start of last year. So I think sort of having that also connecting with a lot of neurokin over the last 12 months, especially our last 12 [00:20:00] months. I think it's now 14 months now from memory.

Yeah. Um, it's been really great to be, be, be sort of, um, supported by those neurkin as well. And I think it's so important to have that because, I didn't have that before and it's sort of like, you know my acceptance and basically there's people there exactly who I am exactly as I am and stuff like that.

Un unashamedly themselves, unashamedly or, um, authentic and basically being there, being themselves without sort of like, you know, without apology.

Teisha Rose: Yeah and sorry, that was, is it a community group or something you mentioned? 

Michael Coles: Well, I was actually. Okay, so let me explain. Yeah, I was actually sort of, uh, I've joined a, uh, group that Annie Crow runs called Neuro Access.

We have sort of one of, uh, like monthly zoom meetings and all, all that type of support. We have body doubling and, uh, we have sort of like, you know, a bulletin board. We, we can sort of discuss, uh, what issues that we've discovered, discovered [00:21:00] with, um, societal and basically sort of systematic, uh, issues that we've, we've actually faced.

Um, I've also joined a neuro divergent, business collective, which I think they've just rebranded to, differently aligned, which is really good as well. Um, and they've got lived experienced professionals to be able to sort of like connect, connect to. Um, there's also a podcast, which I started in June last year called The Deep Dive Podcast, which which you basically sort of see here.

Which I've actually , we just celebrated our first anniversary and we've connected with a lot of autistic ADHD and neuro divergent individuals that live their own life unapologetically and also, you know, trying to live their best life despite the fact they've got autism, I know that sounds wrong, but it's sort of like, you know, they're living their best life.

Um. As they're autistic, if that makes sense. Yeah. Sorry, I'm not making sense today. No, no, no. It makes perfect 

Teisha Rose: sense. It makes perfect sense because it's owning your own truth or your own, [00:22:00] being your authentic self. Yeah. And not trying to hide that from anyone. And I think that's, really important and I think it opens things up and conversations up and having a podcast providing that safe space must make a huge impact.

Michael Coles: Yeah, and it's, it's good to sort of like, you know, and talk to guests that basically have their own story, um, have their own unique story because I think sort of having that power to present that story in a, in a lot of detail and a in a lot of questions and trying to sort of like, get down deep into what it's all about, it's really good.

All that type of thing. I do like having one-to-one conversations where we can sort of talk in depth about that particular subject or what makes them tick and all that type of thing. It's very cathartic to sort of have those like one-to-one conversations to be able to sort of like, you know, find out who they are and, and try to work out who they are and all that type of things.

So it's, it's good to connect with other people who sort of [00:23:00] like, you know. Is willing to listen in great depth and all that type of thing. And, and having this sort of the capacity and the tolerance to be able to sort of go with my info dumps. 'cause I can go with, with, well go with info dumps for about 45 minutes sometimes if I'm passionate.

Oh, okay. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Yeah. Which. I that I do a lot of, not that that extent, but I sometimes just blah, you know, get everything out. 

Michael Coles: Well, it's sort of like, you know, it's, it's getting your passions out and basically describing your passions to a degree and basically it's great to learn from that.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, absolutely. And find out from other people and all, what they're going through and identifying with parts of that as well. Yeah. So if we were to think about people listening, who this is all new to, they may have someone, who is neuro neurodivergent. You know, their employees, one of their employees and not sure, some of this might be new to them or someone at, I know, a local golf club or, or whatever it [00:24:00] is that you come across.

So first of all, what's your biggest challenge in even socially interacting with people? So, we'll talk about that and then we'll talk about what best for us to do. 

Michael Coles: Well, sometimes it's sort of like when there's new people when they sort of, you find out they have the same passions as you, you can connect with them, but the problem is basically sometimes they have that stereotypical view of autism and all that type of thing.

It's just trying to sort of like, you know, it's sort of knowing what to say. Um, sometimes it's basically when a, when it's a group, it's a little bit too loud and all that type of thing. So you've got sort of like an environment set of far too loud and far too sort of like, you know, overstimulating for their own needs.

You know, basically sort of in the cafe sometimes there's a lot of conversations going around and stuff like that, and there's a lot of things that's sort of like going on. So as long as you sort of like, like with my networking type of thing, I mean, I'm really good at it, but you kind of go, have [00:25:00] to go have a plan to go with it. So you have a little spiel in your head and basically, go up and talk to them and basically sort of like, you know, talk to 'em about what your sort of like, you know, passions are and all that type of thing. And, and I tend to have a really good response sometimes, when they're sort of like, you don't, you dunno what to say, um, to a degree.

So it's sort of like, you know, it's a little bit difficult to sort of. You tend to be a bit bit reserved and basically when, when you do get reserved, you sort of like, you don't tend to talk a lot. So that's the problem I've had, if I have to sort of go into a new company and stuff like that and I sort of dunno what to talk about, I tend to get reserved and I don't talk at all.

So yes, that's sort of like, you know, the two sort of things that I have, if I have a plan. Then I know, and I know that I'm talking to people that sort of get this stuff, it's really good. But if there's social events where it's sort of like, you know, I dunno what to do, you, you ca you tend to get a bit silent.

So that's, that's the [00:26:00] way, that's the two ways that I can, um, that I sort of react in new situations. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, and I think that's good to let us know because sometimes if someone is reserved and quiet, you make assumptions as to why, there mightn't be understanding or they're just really shy , so that's really good insight for all of us.

Michael Coles: And also sometimes they tend to retreat because it's sort of. Uh, it's sort of like overstimulating for us. I had a situation I think it was a couple weeks ago, where sort of like, you know, it wa it was on the way home from holidays.

I basically had a sort of like a, a overstimulating experience with Face Service Center that where there was basically sort of too many people and there was like, too many things to look out for and then sort of you get interrupted and then you sort of like, , you get. You get a bit sort of like tense and all that type of thing and then , you do tend to bit be a bit aggravated by it. It's not their fault that they're sort of like, you know, that I'm overstimulated. But you know, it tends to grate on [00:27:00] you a bit. So that's when , things, if there's too many people there, it sort of tends to grate on you and you just wanna either retreat or you just basically just wanna sort of like, you know, just, you need to, basically calm down to a degree.

Teisha Rose: So in that situation, or what if someone knows that someone is, um, neurodivergent? What type of things then, is it that awareness like, meet up and don't go somewhere that's way too overstimulating or, you know, what type of things can people do? 

Michael Coles: Sometimes it's sort of like, you know, the online sort of can be really sort of beneficial because, I mean, sort of you're, you're in your own comfortable space and stuff like that and, and you're able to sort of do that.

Trying to force 'em to be something they're not, is not the way to go either. So it's, you know, basically sort of with new sort of things, uh, I do have a support worker to be able to navigate the situations and trying to sort of like, you know, not be dysregulated. [00:28:00] That I sort of say the wrong things or do the wrong things.

So, um, there's sort of like, you know, support in that sort of space as well. But I didn't have that sort of space, uh, support before. So it's sort of like, you know, it, you try and do your best with what you can, but the problem is basically sometimes sort of people just don't understand.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Yeah. And that's why your podcast is so important and episodes like this, where we can all understand and yeah, not have you feel uncomfortable or not part of all social gatherings.

Michael Coles: Yeah. And I think sort of like, you know, it's, it, it's just. It's not just social gathering, it's, it's pretty much in the workplace as well because you sort of like, you know, open plan offices are a killer for autistics and people are trying to sort of like, you know, put open plan offices and stuff like that and people are trying to get people back into the workplace, into the office.

Like it's overstimulating enough to go on the train and all that type of thing without sort of having to try [00:29:00] and do like eight hours worth of work. And then being worried about, everything else that's going on, trying to make sure the sort of like, you know, you please your manager, you please your clients, and all that type of thing.

So there's so many things you have to think of and all that type of thing. That's why I'm doing my own thing now because it's sort of like, you know, I can do little small chunks at a time or one thing at a time, rather than sort of like, you know, having sort of 10 things on your plate and trying to sort of like overthink things and all that type of thing.

And that's not healthy for autistic people as well. So I do have problems , just dealing with more than one thing at a time. So it is sort of like you. That's the biggest problem with me. I'm big tongue tied today. I do apologize. I'm a little bit tired at the moment. But trying to sort of work out, basically sort of like, you know, working with different people, working with different sort of personalities and, and you know, stereotypes and also sort of the way they sort of view the world.

Um, politics, for example, office [00:30:00] politics. Trying to sort of like, make sure you , obviously you do your job the best you can, but the problem is basically you get overlooked and stuff like that because you basically sort of, you believe you've done the job a hundred percent well, but then they they, you get overlooked for, , basically sort of, um, promotions for example, because you know, obviously there's other people and stuff like that, that, that gets along better with the boss or sort of like, you know, is 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. 

Michael Coles: You know. Yeah. That type of thing. So it's the office politics type of thing.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And that's really hard. I think it's great that you are starting to do some consulting and meeting with employers because they're, well, I'm starting 

Michael Coles: to, I haven't started that at offers yet, but I'm hoping to do that in the next few months.

Well, we'll put it out there. 

Teisha Rose: We'll manifest it. I'm just trying. 

Michael Coles: I'm trying to sort of work out ways on how to do this properly, so it's sort of, it's, it's an idea at the moment, but, but just trying to sort of work out the correct way of actually sort of getting in there [00:31:00] and trying to sort of work things out, um, is a bit of a challenge for me.

So trying to sort of like, you know, get those started, but once we get things started and try and get those conversations started, it'll be a lot easier once we get that support. 

Teisha Rose: And there's lots of things I didn't even realize. Like I was part of the digital health festival, which was, so for me, I found it sensory overload and talking to Laticia saying there was nothing, no, you know, headphones offered.

There was no quiet space to go to. There was just nothing in the design of expos or conferences that accommodate, yeah. 

Michael Coles: Well, I think the, uh, ladybugs is probably the OG of these, uh, the, how a neuro divergent conference should be run. Okay. I think it's sort of like, it's done really well. There's a one day online, uh, not, well, not one day online, but it's actually two days on.

It's two days online. Uh, one in person, but you can attend online if you want as well. But [00:32:00] the, the. The in-person sort of thing is really sort of a way to actually sort of, for autistic people to actually talk to each other and there's ways of how they can actually sort of do that in a way that they can be authentic, be their authentic thought, authentic self without sort of trying to pretend and having those accommodations there.

Is actually sort of very attractive for autistic people to be able to be part of those conferences. And there's really inspiring speakers and stuff like that to be ha to be, have, be had at the yellow, but Ladybugs conference and that's why they do it so well. I think sort of more having more conferences like that is so essential because neuro divergent people need to be included and they need to have their accommodations met.

So I think that's, that's where I sort of like, you know. That's why I like more conferences to be sort of like the Yellow Ladybugs Conference because it is so inspiring. [00:33:00] It, there's accommodations to be met, there's obviously the lighting is low and there's so many things that they do to be able to have that sort of, you know, basically have neuro divergent people feel included within that conference.

Teisha Rose: Yeah, that's great. So what gives you hope about the future for your for yourself, but also for the broader neurodivergent community. 

Michael Coles: I think we're getting a lot better in terms of, um, getting that support there. I think with the NDIS it's it's started to, it's starting to get that support into place at the moment.

I know for, there's a, a matter of the matter of fact, I think the NDIS cuts may sort of bring that back. But, um, I think sort of having that to sort of support, uh, we didn't have that prior to the NDIS.

So mm-hmm I think it's very important for that to continue and for, uh, and for autistic people and neuro divergent and [00:34:00] ADHD people to be fully supported in the workplace, in their home. If they're sort of like, you know, struggling with their cleaning and their gardening and all that type of thing, I think they, it needs to continue.

But also having that sort of like, you know, um, that sort of extra support when you need it, I think is so essential for autistic people to have, because I think you, I think you need that to be able to survive in this world that's essentially not built for us. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Well, thank you so much for connecting with us. But before we go, I want to know how can listeners connect with you? There's a QR code I see on your screen. 

Michael Coles: Okay. So we can go to deepdiveau.net that's the main website. Uh, there's the Instagram which is deepdiveau, which is, uh, through Instagram, through TikTok and also through YouTube at the deep dive au.

So [00:35:00] that's the best way of actually sort of look looking at that. Uh, there's also the link tree, which you can actually , look at through the QR code as well. Uh, that sort of links up to my link tree, um, linktr.ee/michaelcoles. If you sort of like listen to it through, uh, through Spotify or Apple or something like that, you'll be able to sort of see all the links and stuff like that.

And also all the interviews that I've been doing and also some of the submissions that I've actually done with, department of Social Services, and all these things I'm trying to do to be able to sort of like, you know, my, my public speaking profile, for example.

Um, you can have a look at that and get me to speak at your event, your conference, and also in the workplace as well. So, , speaking about that, autistic experience and also autistic burnout is so important and this message needs to be spread.

Teisha Rose: And the other one is also, we connected on LinkedIn, um, so also for businesses as well. Yeah, that could be a good spot to connect with you. Yeah. If you 

Michael Coles: connect through my link [00:36:00] tree that the Yep. That's there. Page is there as well. Excellent. 

Teisha Rose: And was there anything else that I haven't asked or anything else that you would like to say?

Michael Coles: I think you've covered everything at this stage. But I think sort of having that knowledge and experience and linking up with the rest of our neuro divergent community is so beneficial.

And it's sort of, um, people need to join us if they're neuro divergent or autistic and we can help you to ride through the experiences of it.

Teisha Rose: Excellent. Well, thank you so much again for your time. It's really been nice getting to know you more and learning so much from you as well. So thank you Michael.

I appreciate it. 

Michael Coles: Thank you so much Teisha, for inviting me on your podcast. Um, I hope it does really well, so I know it's doing really well at the moment and I hope it does exponential things in the future. So I'm looking forward to sort of seeing how it expands and ramps up.

Teisha Rose: Excellent. Thanks so much Michael. Appreciate it. 

Michael Coles: Thanks Teisha. 

Teisha Rose: Okay, so I'm in the same spot, [00:37:00] but I am in at a different angle. So you can see another view of our property here at Daisy Hill. Um, hopefully you really enjoyed that conversation with Michael. I certainly got so much out of it. I really love when people are so vulnerable to let us into their world and I thought think we actually can all do so much better to be more inclusive of those who are neurodivergent.

As always, I'm just gonna ask if you can share The Hurdle2Hope® Show with people you know, will benefit from it. I really wanna, build this community, and really give hope to everyone dealing with unexpected hurdles because it can be a really lonely experience sometimes. And I think when we share our experiences.

Vulnerable in that are authentic about the challenges, then it really does help others. So share the podcast if you're listening, um, on Apple or [00:38:00] Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out Daisy Hill and what I look like on the YouTube channel, at Hurdle to Hope.

Have a great week and I look forward to chatting to you next week. Bye.