Season 2 Episode 7: How Understanding Zoe Is Transforming Support for Neurodivergent Children

You’ve just been handed a life-changing diagnosis for your child — now what? 

For many parents of neurodivergent children, the moment of diagnosis brings more questions than answers. Overwhelmed by clinical reports, disconnected from support systems, and expected to become instant experts — the emotional toll is immense. 

In this episode of The Hurdle2Hope® Show, I sit down with Laetitia Andrac, CEO and Co-Founder of Understanding Zoe — a revolutionary neuroaffirming platform changing the way we support neurodivergent children. 

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 

• Diagnosis is only the beginning – families are often left without clear next steps. 
• Neurodivergence is broader than you think – it includes autism, ADHD, PDA, and more. 
• Personalisation over prescription – every child’s needs and responses are different. 
• Parents need support too – especially when navigating their own neurodivergence. 
• Tech with heart can change lives – how Understanding Zoe brings clarity and connection. 

SHOW RESOURCES 

Understanding Zoe website https://understandingzoe.com/ 

Follow on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/understanding.zoe 

Connect with Laetitia Andrac on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/laetitiaandrac/ 

Unexpected hurdles interrupt all of our lives. It is how you respond that will define your experience.

To find out how Hurdle2Hope can support you or your organisation please visit hurdle2hope.com.

I would love to connect with you, Teisha.

Also, are you following @hurdle2hope on social media... I would love to see you there!

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Transcript

Speaker: [00:00:00] Hey there, Teisha here, and welcome to another episode of The Hurdle2Hope® Show. I'm actually not on our property. I'm in the forest surrounding our, behind our property, and I've just, I've actually been out of town and, driving home and I thought, I gotta do the intro before I head back down to Melbourne, for the rest of the week.

And I thought it's so pretty here at the moment. If I just move this around, there's lots of wattle around. Is just on dusk. Um, so the birds are making lots of noise in the background, which I absolutely love

 So for those of you who listened to last week's episode, this is a little bit of continuation, but don't worry if you haven't listened to my discussion with Michael Coles. Michael shared his experience as an autistic advocate and what that really means in his life living with autism.

Speaker: Today, I'm chatting to the incredible Laetitia Andrac. [00:01:00] Laeititia is the co-founder and CEO of Understanding Zoe. This platform was created in response to their daughter Zoe being diagnosed with autism, and it happened so organically, and that's what I love because it came from a need, and now this platform is helping so many parents and caregivers of neurodivergent children.

So enjoy this episode. I I really learnt a lot from it, and I think what we need to do is to create a more inclusive world. We need to learn from others, and I certainly learnt a whole heap from Laetitia during this interview. Enjoy our chat.

Teisha Rose: [00:02:00] So welcome Laetitia. Thank you so much for joining me here on The Hurdle2Hope® Show.

Laetitia Andrac: Thank you for having me. It's so nice to see you, Teisha.

Teisha Rose: I know I was excited about this. It's just nice to catch up. So we'll let everyone join in on our catch up. Before we get into it, whereabouts are we chatting to you from and just tell us just a little bit about yourself before we jump in.

Laetitia Andrac: Sure. So I'm joining from Dharawal country of Eora Nation, so down south of Sydney where we live now. We, I'm originally from France. Everyone may have noticed by now with my [00:03:00] accent, so I grew up in the south of France, in the French Riviera, and then I moved to Paris for work and from there I moved to Australia 11 years ago.

Wow. 

Speaker: So yeah, interest, interesting life. And, and I should also put to put in context, because my listeners know that I went through a really traumatic period a few years ago when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was actually doing a course of Leticia during those weeks that during the week that I got the diagnosis, and then found out a couple of weeks later that it was stage four.

So you've been there, um, from the beginning. So I think our paths were meant to cross. Yes. Yeah. So today we really want to, um, to you about, um, and it's a personal topic and it's about raising a neurodivergent child. And as I mentioned to you before I hit record, please correct me if I use the wrong terminology because I think it's really important for all.

To know what we are and [00:04:00] aren't meant to say. Um, so to start with, what is Neurodivergence? 

Laetitia Andrac: Hmm. It's a very good question, and I wish more people would be curious and ask. So Neurodivergence was a term that was coin coined, uh, in the 1990s by, um, by an activist. Um, and it's really about a term that is an umbrella that encompass everyone who is.

Diverging in their thinking form and in their thinking way from the norm of society. So today, uh, one and a half, one, 1.6 billion people. So one in five people identify as neurodivergent, which includes those neurodivergence umbrella, ADHD, autism. But not only, it's also dyslexia. Dyscalculia dysgraphia, dyspraxia, O-C-D-O-D-D.

Um. Down syndrome. Lots of things that people ignore are fitting under the Neuro [00:05:00] Virgin umbrella, and it's really a social and a political term. 

Teisha Rose: Mm-hmm. Okay. Well that, I didn't know that even about Down Syndrome. I was thinking autism, ADHD, so yeah. And then your, um. We'll get onto what work you're doing, but your child um, if you can give us a little bit of information in terms of your raising a beautiful child, Zoe, who, um, is neurodivergent? 

Laetitia Andrac: Yes, of course. So, um, I have permission to share this and I ask Zoe. To share about her journey and Zoe is nine now, and we had this whole conversation with Zoe about what it means to be an advocate and what it means to advocate for ourself.

I am myself, neurodivergent, I'm autistic, ADHD, and um, I really know that. I wish I had the opportunity to know that earlier and to advocate for the community. So, um, Zoe's journey has been ones that started when she was [00:06:00] very young, when she was in daycare. We were, um, having conversation with the daycare director and with the daycare educators, and.

Every time it was about Zoe not developing in the way that is expected of other children meeting the traditional milestone. The neurotypical milestone as we call it. And, um. We, we went through the journey of seeing a psychologist, seeing a pediatrician, a holistic pediatrician, has been amazing in our journey.

And, um, as Zoe is a girl, her presentation of autism is different to boys. And so for a long time she was going through the journey of misdiagnosis, which happened for many, uh, girls with autism. Because the presentation is very different, which is exactly part of my own journey because through Zoe's diagnosis, the two clinician looked at us, Jo and I, and they were like, it's, uh, highly hereditary.

So we think one of you [00:07:00] maybe.

Teisha Rose: Oh, really? I didn't realize that.

Laetitia Andrac: Yes. And uh, Johan looked at me being like, mm-hmm. I like, no, no, I don't identify as autistic. And then I went through the journey of researching and, um, and reading lots of books about autism in girls and, and masking and, and all of these kind of elements, which then led me to the journey of seeking for my own assessment, my own diagnosis from a psychologist.

And it's been an amazing journey of discovering that I'm actually. Really highly autistic and lots of things that I thought I was doing, which were part of my way of being, are actually not the norm. So that's really something. So our journey with Zoe was a journey of self-discovery for herself and in parallel a journey of self-discovery for myself and, and then understanding that those special interests that I have, the willingness that I have to go deep in certain topic [00:08:00] and not just stop at the surface.

It's like when I learn a topic, I'm like. I better be an expert at this and go and do the long-term training and invest lots of time and lots of energy and, and all of that is actually very linked to my, uh, neurodivergence. So raising Zoe is an absolute delight in terms of learning about myself. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. 

Laetitia Andrac: And it's also really, really hard many days because of the fact that we need to accommodate for her to thrive. And I also need my own accommodation for me to thrive. And the difficulty is when my needs. Are not aligned with what she needs at that time. So that's something that we notice with a lot of parents of neurodivergent children, whether they're neurodivergence themself or they're neurotypical, is how can you support and provide the right accommodation for your children to thrive whilst looking after yourself?

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And that, that's a really hard balance. Have you [00:09:00] found that you've improved in gaining that balance or 

Laetitia Andrac: it's, uh, you know, you are catching me now at the end of a three weeks school holiday? So I'd say it's highly imbalanced at the moment. It's highly imbalanced. It's definitely the top priority is on, on the girls and on Zoe's wellbeing right now during school holiday, because.

They're fully in our care and it's, you know, they don't have the, the responsibilities are shared responsibilities that we have usually with Zoe's teacher or Zoe support worker because school holiday means for parents of neuro divergent kid, everyone is on holidays. So you have zero support. So you are basically on your own.

When you don't have family support, uh, around you because support worker on holiday and speech therapist and child, uh, psychologist and occupational therapist are on so on holiday. So it's a, it's really a moment of, um. A long time of loading the [00:10:00] routines and the rituals and the, the, the frame that we have to, to make it work for each and every one of us.

So highly imbalanced right now, but as I always say, cyclical living and what I was teaching at the time around Ayurveda and in business and all of those elements, it's all about knowing which season you're in and, and right now, for the last three weeks, it's been a season of. Giving way more than I, you know, that I could give.

Yeah. And, and then, I will be in a season of more winter and just recuperating, recovering and, and going back in my cave and prioritizing maybe my own need, whilst Zoe's teacher and, and, you know, the whole support village can take back a bit of the responsibilities that we share with them.

Yeah. 

Teisha Rose: And so take us back, you are well versed now. You've written, you know, you've read lots of books and you've identified it in yourself as well, but when you were told that this was a diagnosis for [00:11:00] Zoe, what did that feel like? You know, because there'll be people listening that this is what they're going through, and I'm imagining that would be really, really overwhelming.

Laetitia Andrac: Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely, so what's happening, and this is a big thing, why we created Understanding Zoe, which we can talk afterwards about, which is the, the platform that we created based on our own journey. But, when you go through the journey of an assessment with clinicians and, um, you know, you go through the the different questionnaires that they send you through. And then there is, uh, observations like Zoe what spends three hours with, uh, two clinicians for observation where you're not here as a parent and then there is, uh, interview for you as parents, interview for teacher and so on. And it's all end up being those two hours meetings that we had with the clinician.

Telling you that your child is, autistic and ADHD and PDA and, and the other element of her [00:12:00] diagnosis and how is her cognitive, what is her cognitive assessment and all this kind of thing. And so you have like those kind of two hours where it's clinical terms is just telling you how, you know.

Based on this non-normative expectation. She's not meeting or she's exceeding or she's under or she's, so it's just like this kind of very overwhelming moment. And so you finish those two hours conversation, you receive a 38 pages, uh, document, which was the case for us, for Zoe. Not saying that everyone will receive 38, maybe for some it's 45.

For some it's 20. Like it really depends on the psychologist you have and you're just really. Having labels, but as I always love to say, zero roadmap and zero plan. Yeah, and I guess that unfortunately it's something that we experience in the neurogen space, but I know for a fact that it's something that lots of people experience in any care situation, unfortunately.

It's like, this is your diagnosis. You have a [00:13:00] cancer, great, and, and that's it. And you are left like this with zero, zero pathway, zero roadmap, zero help is just. My job is done. I gave you the assessment and off you go. Yeah. And we thought that it was a very isolated feeling. And so, but actually with time now and, and reading a lot of things about it, I find out that many parents feel the same.

Uh, in the latest research that was done in Australia was 31% of parents feel completely overwhelmed, as you said, or. Just having zero information after the diagnosis. So completely lost in the maze of things that they can do. So what I did straight after getting the diagnosis is I called a friend of mine who used to be my executive coach when I was a general manager in Telstra.

And I knew because through the different conversation we have had, and she had, you know, mentions that I may be autistic at the time when she was, uh, coaching me in Telstra. Um, and she has a [00:14:00] son who is autistic and her son is. We're older than Zoe, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, way into teenager years. And so I was like, okay.

I know she has a son with autistic. I know she shared openly about this with me. I know she'll be open to talk with me about how it feels and what's the next step. Yeah. So I basically called her, even though we hadn't talked in a few years. Yeah. And I was like, Hey, so here is what's happening. What do I do next?

She really helped me in the journey of navigating the maze, and that's where with Johan, we looked at each other and we're like, is there something existing out there to help people in that maze? Is there something out there to help you make sense of a 38 pages in nonclinical term, in an affirming way?

Is there anything that can help you connect with the right therapist around you? Help you understand with the therapist, what's the best next step? Is there anything to translate all of this [00:15:00] into the teacher? Classroom, what does it mean for Zoe's teacher and all of that. So we didn't see anything existing.

So we created our own AI tool for Zoe and we called it Understanding Zoe. Okay. And we started sharing it with Zoe's teacher, with our parents, with the support worker, and all of this kind of people that were already surrounding us in Zoe's cash was already seeing an occupational therapist and a speech therapist.

So we just shared with everyone this thing that we had created, and we called it Understanding Zoe. And, uh, two weeks after that we had Zoe teacher reaching out, being like, oh my goodness, this is a game changer. I didn't realize that I was not doing the writing in that instance in the classroom. I was reacting from a place of I know rather than I understand 'cause it's very different. The, I know what to do with an autistic student and I understand the specificity and the specific needs of that person. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, 

Laetitia Andrac: yeah. Like individuals that I have in the classroom who has [00:16:00] its own special interest and its own needs and its own accommodation. So, um, moving from a one size fits all to a personalized approach.

So to go back to your question, I felt overwhelmed. I felt lost. I felt like many parents, 80% of parents feel completely, um, completely under, under underserved and under supported. So I really felt in this way and. At the same time, I felt like it all makes sense. It totally makes sense. It was some of the elements that I could catch from the assessment, from the words that the clinicians were using.

Like, yeah, that's, that's, that's Zoe, that's, that's making sense. So it was one part being like, what does it mean? What's next? How can I support her best? And it makes sense. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that's amazing too. So just give us a couple of examples, of how different, so for the teacher, for example, you know, a one size fits all response.

So what were some [00:17:00] of the things that helped the teacher? 

Laetitia Andrac: Yeah, so, you know, the, the other very, for some of them, so Zoe attend a Montessori school, so they have. Uh, a bit more understanding of neuro inclusion and neurodiversity because Montessori for the story, if anyone is listening to this podcast, Maya Montessori created initially the Montessori school in the early twenties for kids who were in the street in Roma and they were autistic, non-speaking.

So it, it's a methodology of teachings that is really, uh, well adapted for autistic children. So before knowing Zoe was autistic, we sent Zoe to a public school and nothing against a public school is just a public school she went to, didn't work for her. It had 800, students in the school, you know, over 30 in her classroom.

And it was expected of her to stay seated in one place and to learn under those neon light with a lot of noise in the classroom and learn in a way that doesn't work for her. [00:18:00] So very quickly we removed her from the public school and uh, we moved her to a Montessori school and we actually moved all of our life from one side of Sydney to another side to send her to this Montessori school.

So, um, it was before knowing the diagnosis. She was five at the time and. We just decided that this was the right thing to do for us as a family to support better because Zoe was entering that stage that happened to a lot of kids were neurodivergent, which is school refusal, and then school can't, which means they really can't go to school anymore.

Their body is shutting down. They're having shut down, mailed down, which means they can't go to school anymore. So it was way before knowing all of this intuitively, I'm very intuitive. I was like, yeah, that's good. We'll move her. We'll find a Montessori school and that's. What she needs. And, and so to answer your question, what's really different, it's, they will expect teacher will, will learn in those settings.

So in Montessori, I know they have some training, I dunno if all public school have some training, but in [00:19:00] Montessori they will learn that, um, you know, when a kid is having, um, a autism diagnosis, then they need headphone. But not every kid who is autistic needs headphone. Some of them are not noise sensitive.

Some of them are actually loving to have sound around them because they're actually sensory seeker rather than sensory, avoiding, and they need those sound and they need this energy to get going. So it's, it's really annoying. Understanding what is the need for that child. So some need headphones, some don't.

Some needs very, very soft lights. Very soft lighting because the light sensitive, which is my case, but other may need, you know, very energetic light and things like this to get going. So it's really about understanding the preferences, understanding the accommodation rather than, okay, so if they're autistic, then we should.

[00:20:00] Limit every sensory stimulation. We know within the autism uh, space, you have kids who are sensory seeker. You have kids who are sensory avoidant, and you have moments because it's a dynamic disability where a kid may move from being sensory avoidant to sensory seeker and then back to sensory avoidance.

So this dynamic aspect. Is really important for teacher to get access to. And that's where, you know, the Understanding Zoe App can help them because they can understand what trends are happening and where is the child and how is they feeling yesterday and how their sleep may impact their mood, may impact their nutrition and may impact their sensory sensitivity in that moment.

So it's really about. Having this holistic view of the child. So that's an example around the sensory sensitivities. Another example is, people think, okay, if this kid is ADHD, then we need to chunk down, um, everything and make sure that it's step one, step two, step three, step four. Yes, it worked for some [00:21:00] ADHD kid, but for other, actually the more big picture thinking.

So they like to see the whole thing and they would like to have autonomy if they have PDA as well. They want to have autonomy towards how do I chunk my task and how do I organize them. So again, that's something around the one size shift all where when you go on TikTok or when you go on Instagram, you have those kind of self-declared expert in ADHD will tell you if you are ADHD.

Then you need to have this flow chart, and this is how you get your chart ready for school. That doesn't work with Zoe. Zoe is autistic and ADHD, or it doesn't work for her. She, she's, she's PDA as well, and she likes to have this autonomy. So I give her the big picture and then she chose in what order she does the thing.

And for her, that's really important for her on autonomy to have this ability to choose. And again, that's something that the teacher. Didn't know because they had learned that an ADHD or child needs to have those flow charts and those steps. When you are ADHD or autistic, PDA [00:22:00] and Zoe, this is a human, you know, herself with her own, uh, needs and her own approach.

So, um, that's where personalization of care is really important and continuity of care as well, where. Many of those kids will go to an occupational therapist who will know and understand, you know, which specificity is having that child and provide the right sensory environment and the right accommodation for them.

But then that child go to school and it's completely different and then they go to home and it's completely different. So how might we provide a continuity where the knowledge from the OT is also shared with everyone else in the village? So enhancing the care and. Helping this continuity that needs to happen for those children to feel like traumatized.

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And let's talk about Understanding Zoe because it's amazing and this is, I mean, one of my closest friend son is autistic, and I know, you know the difficulties in terms of with schooling [00:23:00] socially. Uh, yeah. You know, there's so many challenges, uh, and that falls on the parents. Yeah. Um, so yeah, let's talk about what under and Understanding Zoe is, but then what it's doing and how it can make such a difference in, the community that's there to help raise Zoe and other kids.

Laetitia Andrac: Yes. Sure. Thank you for asking that. So Understanding Zoe is an AI powered platform. Mm-hmm. That is not connected to the internet because if you connect your AI to the internet, especially in the neurodivergent space or any disability, app I would say if you leverage what's on the internet, you have a lot of ablism and biases.

So you don't wanna be connected to the internet. You wanna make sure that your AI is connected to the right resources and the right information so that it provide the right support. 'cause what I always say about ai, and I worked in AI since 2014, before it was trendy, as I love to say. Um, it's. It is that [00:24:00] if you put crap in in AI, you get crap out.

So it's about making sure that what you put within an AI platform is actually quality, quality driven, and evidence based, and making sure that then what's coming out of it is making sense. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, 

Laetitia Andrac: so Understanding Zoe is an AI platform that, is, providing parents, teacher, educators, support worker, family member, everyone who is surrounding a child within, um, within the care of this child is having access to exactly the same information.

So the parents are the main user of the platform. So they choose who they wanna invite in the care village, they choose the key documentation that they wanna train the AI with, so they choose which type of document do they wanna upload, so that Pip, which is our AI coach, can use to then answer to everyone's question within the care village.

Those documents are kept private only for the parents to see. That's very important. We don't want [00:25:00] everyone in the care village to have access to those, uh, sensitive information. So the parents upload the documents as they see fit for Pip to be trained in the right way for. This child, let's take the example of a child named Lily.

So they upload all the call document for the understanding of Lily, for everyone in the village. They choose who they want to invite in the village, maybe a certain support worker, an occupational therapist, a pediatrician, the teacher, the support teacher, whoever they want to invite, and everyone else in the care village get access to the platform for free.

The platform is paid by the parents. Um, some of them can use NDIS funding if they don't have NDIS funding, they pay themself. It's very much affordable. It's like two coffees for a month. So really not about making a lot of money from, uh, the disability, uh, tax that we all pay as parents of, uh, kids with disability.

So it's really about providing a service and we're also a social enterprise worth, uh, mentioning as well. So it's all about the impacts that the platform provide and then any user [00:26:00] within the support village can go and ask people some questions, which then will draw from the information that are specific to the child that the parents have uploaded.

Or will go through our curated bank of resources and everything that will come back is neurodiversity affirming, which means in our manifesto of Understanding Zoe, the language we adopt is all about supporting and not fixing. It's all about honoring the child uniqueness and not making it become a neurotypical kid, which for a long time people think, you know, as they say, let's treat ADHD, let's treat autism.

There is nothing to treat. It's not a disease, it is a disability, and it is a disability because of the society we live in, which is not yet accommodating for us who have this hidden disability to be accepted and welcomed. So. So that's how it works, is they can go and ask question to people, our AI coach, and get [00:27:00] relevant answer in a neurodiversity affirming way, which are evidence-based, which are very much curated and so on.

They can access resources that we've curated, we've co-created with experts in the space, and they can also go through the observation aspect of the app, where they can enter medication and any side effect from medications that they notice, so then they can have trends over time. Which is, you know, the medication titration they can enter, anything around food, like how does a child react? Because lots of kids who are neurodivergent may have a co-occurring condition of ARFID, which means it's difficult around, uh, the food that they eat. They're quite sensitive around the texture and the smell, and so they have their safe food. So knowing within the journal what is the safe food and measuring over time, they can also through, uh, Pip generate an About Me that is always up to date so everyone in the village know about Lily in this examples or Zoe in our family. So it's a very, um, very [00:28:00] beautiful, holistic platform. The feedback we get is Pip is so compassionate, so on point, so clear and so personalized, and it grows with the child because depending on the age of the child, the assessments that you have about the child and so on, it goes with, uh, relevant information.

Teisha Rose: Beautiful. It's so beautiful because I just know through witnessing how difficult and isolating, um, it's very isolating. Yeah. Yeah. So if you can create a community, but a community that knows what to do. 'cause I think that's happens. People have got good hearts and wanna help and wanna support, but it is not sure doing the wrong.

Things. Um, so Exactly. Yeah, it's incredible. And, and

Laetitia Andrac: It's, it's about sharing the, the mental load, but in a way where you don't feel like, oh my goodness, I'm letting a friend look after my daughter or my son. But they, you know, every time they go there, they keep telling him or her or them [00:29:00] that they need to behave in this way.

So it's, it's really about helping everyone, and I truly understand that this is something that is quite new because when you have a visible disability, if a, a kid is in a wheelchair, then you will take the ramp and take the elevator. You will not, you know, be like, okay, let's take the stairs. You will see.

So whoever is looking after that child, they will see. But when it's an invisible disability, people don't really know. And so that's that all start with understanding. So as soon as they understand and they know, then they can do better. We, when we don't know, we can't do better. So it's all about this shared understanding and this shared knowledge.

That's why I have a lot of empathy. But then at the same time, it creates a lot of isolation for us not to be able to trust anyone to do the right thing. So we end up as parents of neurodivergent kids looking after our kids all the time and not trusting anyone. And our kids will tell us, they'll be like, [00:30:00] or if they are non-speaking, they may not tell you, but in their behaviors, they will tell you that they don't wanna go with that person anymore.

And then you're like, oh my gosh. So it's only with me all the time, every day. And that's a lot for everyone. 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think all of this conversation's really important as well, even from the perspective of, and you wrote this great blog about if you see, uh, a child having a tantrum, and as you know, you are making judgment about that.

Yeah. But just quickly speak to that, because they're not having a normal tantrum.

Laetitia Andrac: Yeah, it's a, it's a sensory meltdown. It can be, you know, a shut down. So it's, it's not a tantrum. And I see a lot of people who are just being like, oh, it is because you're too easy on your kid, or you're letting them do everything they want.

No, it's not the case. Like you will not, again, going back to the analogy of a wheelchair, you are not ask a kid in a wheelchair, why don't you walk up the stairs? Why are you so difficult? They're [00:31:00] not difficult. They just can't. And so a meltdown or a moment of shutdown means that they've been. Sensory there in sensory overload or their RSD, which is a rejection sensitivity dysphoria was triggered.

So for them it's too hard then to move on and to move to the next stage. They, they need co-regulation. So in that moment when people see me and Zoe having, meltown and they're like, oh my gosh. And she's hugging her and giving her cuddle, yes. Okay. Yes. Because this is what she needs at that point in time.

She needs co-regulation. She needs a moment with me and she needs to catch her breath. And it's impossible for them to just understand that what they've done is not okay. So that's really something that you need to find a moment to explain to them what's expected, but don't do it when they're having a meltdown.

And that's where I see. [00:32:00] You know, even within our own family, when we have the grandparents, coming and, and seeing how we do, they're like, why is she allowed to eat on a bouncing ball? And why is she allowed to eat with her fingers? And you know, her hands, and why is she like, this is not okay.

You're not raising her to the right standard. And for me, the most important thing is for Zoe to feel safe. And we have two rules in our family, which is safety and respect. So is she feeling safe? Is she feeling respected? Do we feel safe and do we feel respected? And that's really in our own family.

I'm not saying that this is what everyone should apply in their own family, but those are really the two rules. Is it respectful and is it safe? 

Teisha Rose: Yeah, that's beautiful. And it's the most important thing. And I think just having these conversations does make people just, yeah to think about judgements. Yeah, definitely. When you see things, because we don't, we don't know. [00:33:00] And the other one thing quickly, before we give people details or how they can connect. The other thing that others may have heard as well is a little bit about children experiencing burnout. Yes. And that to me, it's like I'm starting to do workshops for frontline workers being burnt out and you're think, okay, that's not okay, but they're, you know, in their forties or, you know, and experiencing that.

But then it breaks your heart if a, a child is experiencing burnout. Yeah. So, yeah, just talk to us about that just a little bit.

Laetitia Andrac: Yeah. So this is unfortunately happening more and more, um. The burnout rate in children is growing higher and higher. And that's coming from the fact that, um, there is more and more, uh, negation of the needs of those children to thrive in, in settings.

So that's, uh, that the school can't, that the school burnout burnouts at those moments where children can't just interact with anyone else because the school becomes a [00:34:00] zoo and you have, all of these bullying that is happening now with social media and so on. And so we've seen how social media created this kind of even higher pressure on those kids who don't fit the norm. 'cause then they are the one who people make fun of and they may film a meltdown or they may feel, you know, film something that is an, you know, a kid stimming in the, in the corridor. And then it's like, oh my, look at this weird kid. And, and you know, Zoe is stimming a lot during the school holiday, at home many times during the day.

And, um yesterday she was stimming a lot at night. I was like, that makes me so happy to see you stim like this Zoe and I, I hope you know you can do that in any place. We'll always support you. And she said some things that broke my heart. She was like, in at school I don't do it much because otherwise him and her and and them will make fun of me. So I, I just don't do it. And that's why I feel so tired when [00:35:00] I go home because they compensate and they mask and they just behave in the right way. I'm using, you know, my air quote here, the right way, the neurotypical way, the neuron normative way, which means then when they come at home, which is where they feel safe, whereas if you're respected, they just stim and let it go, but by doing that, they burn out quicker because they've been masking so much. They've been behaving in a way that is appropriate for those settings, but that's not okay. That there is one way that is appropriate. Why a child, you know, jumping around, flapping their hands because that's what they need in that moment for a minute or two to regulate is not okay.

Why is that not okay? 

Teisha Rose: Yeah. And that's what we need to, and that's really something we need to change. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent to challenge, challenge what the norm is. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I love what you're doing, [00:36:00] and for people who want to connect with you in this space, what's the easiest way to do that?

Laetitia Andrac: Yeah. You can just, thank you. Thank you again, Teisha it was so nice to reconnect with you and seeing you as well at the Digital Health Festival in Melbourne after so many years. I love how our, path keep crossing and, and I'm very, very excited for everything you're creating and, and witnessing you through your journey has been an absolutely delight.

So thank you for inviting me today. So if anyone would like to connect with us, you can explore our website, understandingzoe.com. You can follow us on Instagram, @understanding.zoe. I'm also on LinkedIn Laetitia Andrac, if you wanna see some of the advocacy work that I'm doing and thought leadership in that space.

But you can just DM me on Instagram if you have any question about the platform. Either for yourself or for anyone you know in your environment who may benefit from using Understanding Zoe. And we're also looking at partnering with more and more schools and daycare and [00:37:00] employers offering Understanding Zoe, to more and more children.

So we are not just a platforms that everyone can sign up on our website. We also have partnerships which are more at scale partnerships that we have already in motion. So if. Absolutely. You are one of those people who can make an introduction. That would be amazing for us. Thank you. 

Teisha Rose: No, that's, that's wonderful.

I'll put all the details in the show notes and on the website as well. Thank you. Um, yeah, I'm so excited. This is gonna make such a huge impact on so many people and just help so many families, you know, the children, but also the parents who are doing things tough. But yeah, it can make life a little bit easier and give that support to parents who are feeling isolated.

Well, that's an amazing thing. So thank you. Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time. 

Laetitia Andrac: Thank you. I'm so grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

Teisha Rose: Thank you. You're welcome. Bye. 

Laetitia Andrac: See you soon. Bye. Bye. 

Teisha Rose: So hopefully you enjoyed my chat with Leticia. I had, yeah, I learned [00:38:00] lots. And as always, these conversations are so important for all of us to help build a more inclusive world. Um, visit understandingzoe.com also the show notes i'll have all the links there as well. Also. If you know someone who is supporting their neurodivergent child, please share this link and this episode with them.

Apart from that, um, I'm not sure. I don't think there's much else to share other than I'm about to head off to Melbourne tomorrow again, so away from Daisy Hill and the, the peace here, but I'm participate participating in a, panel discussion of people living with disability and shining a light on the work that Hurdle2Hope® and others are doing.

So really looking forward to that. So hopefully you'll also have a really good week. And I look, actually, no, I should also say listen to last [00:39:00] week's episode if you haven't already. Michael Coles, his conversation was also really eye-opening and I think you'll get a lot out of that as well. Have a good week and we'll chat soon. Bye.