Want healthier birds, better hatches, and fewer costly mistakes? Poultry Nerds gives backyard flock keepers and breeders practical, science-informed answers about chickens, Coturnix quail, hatching eggs, incubation, breeding, nutrition, brooding, biosecurity, housing, and flock health.
Jennifer Bryant of Bryant’s Roost and Carey Blackmon of Show Pro Farm Supply bring real-world poultry experience to honest conversations with breeders, researchers, poultry professionals, and other people who truly know birds. We explain not only what to do, but why it works, so you can make better decisions for your own flock.
Whether you are setting your first incubator, raising breeding stock, shipping hatching eggs, or managing an established farm, every episode gives you useful information you can put to work.
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Carey
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast. I'm Carey Blackman, and I'm here with my co host for the show, Jennifer Bryant. And we're here to help you figure out how to raise the healthiest, happiest, and highest quality birds possible. They said that the way the meat is, and you'll never know it until you actually feel it, but they said that the meat is better. At 18 to 24 hours. And so what most commonly they is recommended that you pull the feed at night time, so they're not just because they will sit there and eat all day and all night, they recommend you to pull the feed at night. So what this person does is. Let's say if the sun's going down around five ish, that's when you would normally pull the feed. They'll go out there, two, three o'clock in the afternoon, pull the feeders out, take them back to the barn. And the next morning, they go to the birds, and instead of taking them some water, they've already got their cages there. They're loading them up in the cages. Taking them to the processor. Now. I understand pulling the food makes it for a cleaner Processing but what does it change with the meat? the fleshiness I Forget exactly how it was worded. I want to say they used a reference of being spongy versus a tighter meat Again, I'm I didn't really pick up on that. I was still taking notes. I took about 10 or 15 pages of notes. So we pull the food I pull the food the night before, partly because if you understand a bird's digestive system, the food just goes into the crop and then they have to work it down into their gizzard. So if it's in the crop, it hasn't provided any nutritional. Any nutrition to the bird itself anyway, yet at that point. And so if the food is still in the crop, you've just basically wasted the food. So I can understand that. And I do pull the food. Now we don't run tractors. We just let ours free range. We don't have predator problems. So ours just free range around the barn. So When we're butchering, they just wandered around, and we just pluck up the one closest to us, and that one is the next one. We're pretty old school about doing it. You're unlucky. You were easy to catch. And if you've never done Cornish before, for our listeners, they're not fast. No, they're like a snail or a turtle moving along, and they really don't run. They waddle back and forth. I was gonna say, by the time they get Past that five, six week they're not walking. They're not running. They're waddling. Yeah and I think us putting them out there. Free range does make a little bit of a difference. They get a little bit more, I don't know. Exercise, would be the right word. Yes. And I like to order all roosters when I do it. Because they just grow faster and bigger. And and you just get more bang for your buck that way. That is true. And a lot of people that, that, In, when you're talking about standard bred chickens, how long do you usually wait before you put one outside when you take them out of the brooder? Oh, yeah, they're gonna be, depending on the weather, it could be eight to ten weeks. Just depends on the spring weather. Okay. The most somebody keeps these things in the brooder is three weeks. Oh, yeah, totally. They are wet. If you've never dealt with them, they're, the only way I can describe it is wet. Because they're sweating, probably. They're very similar to quail in that regard. They, I don't know, they go through so much water, an incredible amount of water they drink. Yeah, they talked about that. They talked about how, if you let them run out of food, there's a period of time where you may or may not have an issue. Because a lot of people don't realize it, chickens turn into little cannibals. But they said that if they run out of water, they'll dehydrate and die in a couple hours. Because obviously they drink that much. But, so the people that are the, I called them the two weakers in my notes. We're talking Arkansas South. And I was just like, now, I think we said earlier, they, a lot of people do recommend that you don't do. Chickens, unless you have proper heating in your barn to keep them in December and January. But the rest of the time, maybe two weeks and they're out. I thought that was pretty crazy. Yeah we put them out. That's why I like the end of March. Because it, the two to three week mark, it's warm enough for them to be out. And another thing is when you hold them, they are hot, like coming out of the oven hot. It's incredibly different than a heritage breed chicken. They know their place that's, if you think about the chemistry behind what all's going on inside of their bodies to make them grow so fast, it has to be some stuff metabolizing pretty fast. Yeah, I would say they're similar to quail that way. Yeah. Because of quail. A quail will go from right out of the egg to full blown maturity on the caturnix, laying eggs. In that same eight weeks, less usually, so you can't get the Cornish to lay eggs in eight weeks. Did they talk about the rangers at all at your conference? There was a guy that done a talk about heritage birds, and he talked about the rangers. He talked about, let's see, rangers, Delaware's. Rhode Island reds and there was another one that's really massive and I can't think of it. I can't think of what it was. But he talks about those and he talks about a lot of the market for the different birds. And there's a lot of people that don't like the rangers for the, to eat because they're small. Most people that are poultry people do not, they're not going to keep them around 16, 18, 20 weeks, which is what they really need to get full size. So they, they're not big. And some people talked about them being stringy. There's that the I can say that a Delaware at 16 weeks with a certain group of people, if you've got somebody into that heritage bird, if you've got a good bloodline of Delaware's in 16 weeks, you got yourself some money. I have had people offer 30 bucks for mine. Still walking. It takes out a couple steps for me. There, but there, there are those now. When they mentioned Rhode Island Reds, it got me. I was like, not a red. And then when I saw the picture that the person used in their example, I was like, oh yeah, that definitely needs to go in some noodles. Are you a Rhode Island Red snob? Yeah, I am. In the search for a standard bread, Rhode Island red there's a lot of people out there with Rhode Island reds. And when you finally hit the lottery and you get a good one. It's yeah, that, that should be in with some noodles. All right. So now you're talking about the difference between standard bread and hatchery. So let's go back to eating a heritage bird versus a Cornish. I've had people ask me because we eat the Orpingtons and the way I can liken it is if you eat deer venison versus. Cow, beef they're, you can still do the same things with them. You can still make a burger, you can still make a spaghetti with them, but they have a different texture and an Orpington taste different texture wise than a Cornish, since we show the Orpingtons, we do end up with a lot of extras and. What I have found I use them for is I can them, because I have to let them grow out and an older boy is going to be a little bit tougher. So I can them and I use them for sandwiches or stews or soups or things like that. And the Cornish we grow out and we reserve those for, say, barbecue chicken or fried chicken. Things where you want to pick up and eat it. So it's just different. So to me, when I think of chicken fingers, or when I think of that boneless, skinless chicken breast in a bacon dish with some honey garlic sauce in it, 425 for 45 minutes. I think of a heritage bird with a heritage bird, you cook it low and slow, put it in a crock pot. You've got something that you have never had on the, on that takes me to this. At the conference, they included lunch a couple of days and supper on Friday night and lunch we had, they had quartered up. Heritage chickens, you know, that kind of, that was a first for me and it really makes me not want to eat chicken that hasn't been raised that way again. It's a whole new thing. And like with your Orpingtons, if I had a seven month old Orpington or eight or nine month old Orpington, I got eight or nine pounds of meat. That's enough. Even at my house with nine of us. That's enough for two meals. It, you feed it's one mouth and it feeds your nine. I like that. And so it makes me, as I'm, as I am going to embark on raising the Cornish because I want to really dive deep into this so I can do the proper amount of research for people. That's how I sold it. Then I also want to raise the heritage. I do have some Delaware's that I've been working with for about six or eight months now, and I have learned a feed regimen where I can get them rather large in 14 weeks. So I'm going to, I'm going to keep that in my back pocket for that person that wants that heritage bird, because it is a popular thing and in where I'm at. I have a large population of Hispanics, and that was one of the things that oddly a lot of people at this conference wasn't aware of, and my Hispanics, they love heritage burns. And. Before I tasted one, I didn't really know a difference. And then another thing, they really like the roosters. And I'm a foster parent. And once they come into my house, they're my kids. I have two daughters and a grandson that are Hispanic. And I asked one of them one time, I said, what is this phenomenon? Because I can't tell the difference between a rooster and a hen what they taste like. And she said, oh, Papa. It's really not so much a taste as it is an experience. I said, what are you talking about? And she says I've been with you when you've met people. They want the bird alive. Yeah. She said, there's no way. There's nothing they can go to Publix and buy. I don't care how non GMO or free ranged it is at Publix. That gives them the experience of being at home, and that's the only way they can get it like grandma cooked it. So I was like, that explains so much, and it makes perfect sense because there's times, my granddaddy, he raised cattle, and then before my son started doing that, nothing I had that was hamburger meat. Tasted the same. And so that immediately I can relate to exactly, what they're saying, because if I take something that was walking around in the pasture two months ago and cut it up and put it in a crock pot, I'm going to have stew just like my grandmother made, but unless that meat is raised like that, where, what it was fed, how it lived. The whole nine. I don't know if it's psychological or what it is. It just doesn't taste the same. Let's talk about the nutritionists that gave their talks for a minute. What did they recommend? So obviously in the game of chickens, it's about the dollar. And there's a lot of people, obviously you can, I can go to the store and buy a 15, a 50 pound bag for $14. I can go buy a bag for $35. Both of them will be 22 percent protein, but the difference is what's in it. And they talk about that. They talk about the what. What byproduct is a code word for on the label. Which for those listening that don't know if your label says byproduct, whether it be protein, corn or anything else, that means they probably swept the floor. It literally can be anything and that's a lot of filler and you don't know what it is and they talk about using a more nutritious food that's comprised of grains and minerals and all natural stuff. Yes, it is $20 more for that same bag, but number one, you know what you're putting into the bird number two when you this company actually has raises regularly test subjects and When you take the cheaper feed and that's what you give them. It's gonna take them a set of Cornish crosses Closer to 10 weeks to get to the weight that they need to be What's their target weight after this process of around five pounds. It takes longer. And they will consume, a group of 50 birds will consume over a pound each more of that feed than they do the other feed. And you think, okay, it's a pound. Whoop dee doo. But then when you look at feeding them the better quality feed with all of the stuff The science behind this feed has everything in it to meet the science behind the rapidly growing bird. Suddenly now you have a five to six pound bird in seven weeks. You're shaving weeks off of your labor of going out, moving them around, feeding them, watering them, tending, whatever you got, whatever your farm chores are. You're shaving a couple of weeks off of that, and time is not something you'll ever get back. So it's, they talk about the time value of money and all that, and if you look down, APPPA has a calculator in their members only site. And you can put in feed costs, bird costs, the whole nine yards, and it will calculate everything for you. And when you run the numbers on how much feed it takes, this is a lower quality versus how much feed it takes of a higher quality. It takes significantly less feed of the higher quality to do the same thing in significantly less time. And some people get hung up on the $14 versus $35 for a bag of feed, but they don't think about, Okay I'm gonna buy 10 of these bags, it's 14, but I might could buy six of these bags, it's 35. And I know the math isn't exactly the same there, but you're still better. And then when you shave off, one to three weeks. Of time and labor, it adds up. And we see that in the show world. Now I don't sell, I only grow the Cornish out for my own personal consumption. And we figured it out last, no, year before last. And I feed mine a non GMO starter the whole life cycle. They get the same food. And. It came out to 7 dollars and 37 cents a bird. Does that include your cost of the bird? Yes. Sounds about right. And it's, what went into it. Exactly. What kind of life that bird lived, the whole process behind it. And, I challenge people that are wondering to go to YouTube or go to Google. and look at commercial stuff. and how it's processed and I can guarantee you the same bird is fed a whole lot different stuff because they want to shorten that process, they want to try to get it down to six weeks, and, some of them have 40, 000 birds in a house. That's a lot. It is. I actually know a guy that lives in Alabama, up near Calhoun, Etowah County, somewhere in that area that has commercial chicken houses. And he has four that he built that cost him two and a quarter million dollars for the four. Now these four, that is a little high, but they're fully automated. He can control them with his iPhone. They have natural gas generators. They have natural gas heat in them. Totally automated. He said as long as his grain silos are full and nothing messes up, he's good. Six years ROI positive. That's a lot to the point that he's building four more. Wow. He don't eat the chicken that he grows What does that say I Said what he said I'm not gonna tell you who I grow for Because I will tell you that I won't eat that chicken. I know what's what's in the feed that they feed it and He said now if I did eat it if all the stuff that they gave it would transfer into my body, I would never get sick, and I would probably look like a professional athlete. Wow. That resonated with me. Yep. Alright, so we talked about types of birds and nutrition touched on housing I think. Tractors are probably the most common thing for beginners. Predator safe would be good. What other what and we talked about processing numbers. What other seminars lectures did you hear about? There was one that They said that avoiding burnout was a really big thing. In that seminar, they talked about different ways to avoid the burnout, and they just keep on talking about two hours a day. Two hours a day? Yes. You need to keep your chores. Under two hours a day. Oh my word. I'm like way exceeded that but and I'm like, it's huh and they said that When you fit when you're figuring out the number of tractors that you're gonna have when you work your way up When you figure out the birds you're gonna feed and all that you need to be able to do that in two hours and they're like they're not talking about all the other stuff that goes into farming just Feeding, watering, and moving your tractors. Got it. You need to keep that less than two hours. Makes more sense. Okay, I can agree with that. And they also, a lot of people think, Oh, I need a huge house. Every single person that I talk tractor with recommended a 10 by 12. or smaller? And having multiples. Couple of reasons they said that. Whether it be aluminum or wood or whatever it is, a 10 by 12, you're probably gonna need a four wheeler or a tractor. to pull it without any fatigue. But it can still be done relatively easy. Some of the other ones that are smaller, you can do without, and if you get some of the really nice pre done ones, fabricated ones that have wheels on them and stuff, a 10 by 12 can be moved by one person single handedly. There was a guy that had one of them put together in the convention center and it did not weigh hardly anything, you know me, I had tried out but they talk about that and they said that a couple of reasons, number one is less fatiguing on your body and the less you can tax your body, the longer. You'll be able to do stuff every day without aches and pains. If something gets into one of your tractors, they probably won't get into another one. So you have less chances of loss. That was another big thing. And oddly, there's a lot of people that are two, three, five, 7, 000 bird a year processors. They don't have LGD. There's a guy that one of the seminars that I sat in talked about predators and he has these night owls or something like that. And. They say that you have to set those things up per the instructions or they won't work. So you set them at like different areas at different heights, but it'll even keep raccoons from coming. These are like alarm systems that make noise. No, they're lights. Oh, they're, they, you can't see my fingers, but it's, I would say that's about four inches wide by probably four inches tall that this piece is, and you can mount it to a post or a pole or whatever to get it to the different elevations that it says. But basically it recommends you buy them in sets of four and you put a couple of them around They would be about at the height of a dog and this it has little red LEDs on it to look like their eyes and another one that recommends you put up about 10 feet to Look like an owl or something like that and that's how it keeps things away. I don't know that was another thing that they talked about and, there's one guy said that he uses ratchet straps on the front of his coops because they're flat and they have a handle instead of using a rope. The flat on the nylon and the strap is less taxing on the hand when you're dragging the tractors. They got down into it like that. So I could definitely tell that for some of these people, this is a science. This isn't a wake up and try it one day. There's a lot of them to talk about figuring it out. So it was stuff like that. They say that for meat chickens the mobile coops are best. Cause I know that a lot of people see the netting. The electrified netting that you can move around to protect them. Most people that did talk say that is best for egg layers because it keeps them in a certain area better, but that the meat birds are less intelligent. And you needed them, they were best kept in a structure. And they don't graze, so they don't, I know you want pasture, but in reality they're not out there like a cow munching on the grass. No, you gotta there's people that they will say that it's easiest and best to have two people to move your tractors. One person is going to go inside and hoard the chickens towards the front because, maybe for the first couple of weeks they run around like little crazies, but when they get huge. And like we talked about a while ago, they just waddle around. You have to shoe them up so you can pull the tractor further and do that. They talked about that as another one of the things, because like you said, they don't, they're not going to graze like a layer wheel. They'll eat bugs and grass and stuff like that. If it's right in front of their face. Which is why you move them around like that in the the layers, what they would do in a lot of instances is they would have their lay in house where they would roost at night and where they would lay their eggs and they would make an octagon around that. And what they would do is they would move section to section. That's why they use the netting fence and move them every day to where they're hitting a different. Area in that circle and then they move that tractor, because a lot of times you have to have a tractor or a truck or something to drag those because they're pretty large, but they would drag that and then they would coordinate off again and they talked about doing that. They only have to drag it about once a week. So that was pretty nice. I thought yep Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they are released. And they're released every week. Feel free to email us at poultrynerds at gmail. com to share your thoughts about the show. Until next time, poultry pals, keep clucking, keep learning, and keep it eggciting. This is Kerry signing off from Poultry Nerds. Feathers up, everyone.
