How To Be Your Own Cheerleader

🎙️✨ This episode highlights the vital role that Asian Americans play, focusing on self-advocacy for Asian women in the workplace with Neelu Kaur, an executive coach specializing in leadership development and the author of "Be Your Own Cheerleader" 📚

Navigating the fine line between self-expression and maintaining respect can be a challenge within many Asian cultures.

In this interview we explored:

1️⃣ How does culture impact confidence? 🌸🤔

2️⃣ What's the difference between an individual and collective mindset? 🧘‍♀️🧠

3️⃣ How can we become confident advocates for ourselves in the workplace? 💼💪

 Tune in to this episode 🎧----

You can learn more about Neelu Kaur at:

website: https://www.neelukaur.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neelukaur/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/neelu.kaur/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/neelu.kaur01

#AAPIheritagemonth #selfadvocacy #workplaceconfidence #corporatewellness #wellnessatwork #employeewellness #wellbeing #wellness #wellnessconsultant #professionalspeaker

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🌟 🌟 🌟 If you liked this episode and would like to learn more about wellness training and workshops offered by 9 to 5 Wellness, email us at info@aeshathair.com. You can learn more about our programs at:  https://toneandstrengthen.com/workshops-trainings/. 🌟 🌟 🌟

Aesha Tahir is an award-winning author, keynote speaker, corporate trainer, and columnist.  She delivers high-energy presentations that challenge audiences to leverage their focus to what matters most at work and in life, their health. Audiences love the practical strategies she shares. She helps the organizations create a culture of wellness by implementing health programs that put organizations’ biggest asset, the employees first.

 Aesha earned her Master in Exercise Science from Concordia University. She is a distinguished Toastmasters, a designation held by less than 1% of professional speakers. She engages groups from the moment she steps in front of them and leaves them with empowering tools that they can use for the rest of their lives. She has presented workshops and spoken at organizations such as Salesforce, Coffman Engineers, Pyramid Club, Voyager Media Group, National Libraries, 92NY, and Coaching4Leaders to name a few.

🌟 🌟 🌟. You can learn more about Aesha Tahir at

🌟 🌟 🌟 If you liked this episode and would like to learn more about wellness training and workshops offered by 9 to 5 Wellness, email us at info@aeshathair.com. You can learn more about our programs at: https://toneandstrengthen.com/workshops-trainings/. 🌟 🌟 🌟

My passion is helping organizations create a culture of wellness, and I do this by setting up health programs that prioritize the most important asset they've got – their employees. Cheers to a healthier and happier journey ahead!

🌟 🌟 🌟 You can learn more about ME- the host at https://www.aeshatahir.com

Follow me on IG and LI to learn more

https://www.instagram.com/tone_and_strengthen/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aeshatahir/

Transcript

  Welcome to the nine to five wellness podcast,  a show about corporate wellness solutions with innovators and forward thinking leaders who are at the forefront of the workplace wellness movement.  I'm your host Ayesha Tahir. 

 Hello, and welcome to nine to five wellness podcast , I am super excited about our topic today.  How to be your own cheerleader.   I want to talk about myself here, my experience navigating  the delicate balance between  expressing yourself and maintaining yourself.

respect and the cultural values that you grow up with they have been very challenging for me as a South Asian woman. So I wanted to talk about this today on our  podcast because, , growing up, I often felt that like disheartened almost when I was urged to be more assertive and confident because there was a lot of reluctance which stemmed from cultural norms  ingrained in me and many other South Asian women . It has a lot to do with  societal expectations. And for that, I have a very dear friend of mine and a special guest joining us, Nilou Kaur. Nilou is the author of Be Your Own Cheerleader. So she actually wrote a whole book on this very topic. So when I met her, I'm like, Oh girl, this is awesome.

I would love to have you on my show, and she said yes, so I'm super excited. So her book focuses on self-advocacy for Asian and South Asian women, and she provides a lot of practical tips and advice in the book that can benefit anyone who's struggling with self-advocacy, including underrepresented voices.

Introverts. Hey, I'm an introvert and neurodivergent people, and Neelu is highly sought after keynote speaker. She is also an awesome workshop facilitator and executive coach focusing on leadership development for Fortune 500 enterprises. So without further ado. I'm gonna welcome Nilu. , it's so good to have you here.

Yeah, 

I'm so excited to be here finally. 'cause we've talked about this for a while, right? So this is,  

yes, yes. We've been talking about it and just the topic itself,  we have been talking about it and I was like, oh, this is something that we need to really highlight and bring it to the stage so that other women can.

Learn from your expertise, especially as an executive coach and a South Asian woman.  I want to start here that an important aspect of our culture, our Asian culture, is that we are taught, to  always be respectful to listen, not to talk back which can turn into  , we can't openly discuss ideas in a healthy debate, right?

 We can't process conflicts. As a result, because we learn to be quiet and in the work setting, though, in workplace, what happens is that we end up speaking less in meetings or in large groups. We are not asking for promotions or negotiating our pay. We don't voice. A difference of opinion. We know that participation in meetings and other group settings is an integral part of corporate work.

So what's happening? Why Asian women have a difficult time speaking up?  For women who are pursuing careers, how can we learn to value ourselves, our experiences, and change this mindset of staying small?  

I have so much to share. It's like, I don't even know where to begin, but I think one basic premise that has really helped me because I have been a serial downsize.

He, if you will, I've gotten fired. I've been downsized numerous times. That's really what led me to be your own cheerleader. Was because I was always the one getting fired or always the one getting downsized. And I think now, as I look back and now that I've worked with so many other South Asians and Asians, I realized that one of the main reasons for that is that whether you are born in those cultures or you're raised by parents from South Asian and Asian cultures, is that those are very collect based cultures.

So the idea is that you keep your head down, you do good work, your work speaks for itself. There's a sense of humility. And being humble and your parents, I'm sure your parents, my parents to it's like, don't, don't rock the boat. Don't stick out. This is my parents actually said this isn't our country. So you just want to keep under the radar.

Right? And then what happens is corporate America and North America is much more individualistic. And so it's much more of an eye base where you'll hear people talking about themselves or accomplishments and especially at work. And so that's a conflict, right? Like we're taught to be more group focused, to think about the greater good.

And then you move into work and you're told, well, if you don't toot your own horn, you will be overlooked for promotions. You won't get those raises. You will get downsized and fired like I have. And so it becomes this domino effect. And it, I think it stems from the fact that we have so much humility and it's beautiful.

I'm not here to say that our culture and the collective culture, there's.  So many beautiful aspects to it. So I'm not saying let's Dominic where our roots are. No, I'm saying we can be fluid and we can be more contextual. And so one of the tools that I talk about is sort of like, if you think of a speedometer in a car, , there's a dial, right?

And then there's a we side and there's an I side. So it depends on who's in front of you. So if you're in a performance review conversation, that's when you have to turn up the eye. If you're like us, where you're a solopreneur entrepreneur, you're on business development calls. That's where you have to turn up the eye because you're selling yourself or if you're brainstorming or you're coaching a team, it's much more collective.

It's much more our deliverables. , our shared goals. So your language shifts, right? And so knowing that you are still authentic to who you are as a South Asian or an Asian, you're just adjusting based on the context has really helped me turn up the eye, even though it feels viscerally uncomfortable. 

 Turning up the eye. Or meter, just like in certain situations, it doesn't have to be all the time, but in certain situations, and you give really good examples, like when you are in your performance review,  or you are trying to get a raise or you're trying to sell yourself or your services is when you really  want to talk about yourself in a confident way.

, as a South Asian corporate worker, this is what my experience was in corporate. That there is a perception that Asian women are 

doers. 

We can, we can take a lot of load. Like we, we are good with taking responsibility. We are very hard workers.  That work isn't really recognized or valued as much.

Because it tends to go unnoticed and part of it is because, as you said, , we're not speaking up enough. And you mentioned this in your book that constantly being talked over can lead to burnout. So I'd like to explore this idea of how not being confident enough can lead to burnout 

 If you think about it, especially now, right, there's so many companies that have gone through all of this. Reorgs and restructuring and have let go a lot of people. So the people that are still in their roles, they have taken on extra workload, right? Because there's less people in their team or on their team.

Right. And so you are now expected to do a lot more. Plus at home in many South Asian cultures. You as women, we are expected to do a lot more than the men, right? I mean, that's just a given. And so what's happening is like when you don't share that you're overworked with your manager or your partner at home, you're basically adding to that overwhelm on a daily basis.

And so one of the things we were taught as South Asians, as especially as women is just keep your head down and just like. Do things for your family. Do things for your extended family. That's just your role. And so you take that sort of way of being into work. So if you are struggling and you don't speak up because you're fearful that you'll lose your job or if you're here on a visa or you're not a citizen, right?

Like these all things play into impact because you're more fearful that your job is in jeopardy. And so you're not going to speak up. And when you don't speak up and share, Hey, I actually need some assistance. I needed an extra pair of hands. I need an extra couple of pair of hands to do this. It's literally like adding on.

Right. And so one of the things I say is like, let's practice in all situations. So if you don't feel comfortable asking for help at work, start at home.  , maybe asking for help at home, you're sort of like flexing that muscle and then it hopefully will become easier to do that at work as well.

Right,  I think asking for help is very difficult. Like, I find it very hard to do just because.  This expectation that we have of ourselves and also because, , we, we probably didn't have a lot of female role models who were doing it in front of us. 

You're supposed to take the burden and carry on but asking for help and really voicing that.  Before you get into that overly exhausted phase is important. I'm so glad that you shared that.  For  the managers in the workplace who are from an outspoken background and now they're working with Asian employees in corporate environments, maybe they, they are aware and maybe they're not aware of the differences in the working culture. 

And that can be very confusing for them. So, how can we bridge the gap between Asian and Western workers?  

One of the things that's really helpful is it's a two pronged approach, right? Like, we're not just, So I work a lot with tech and engineers and software designers. And so oftentimes if they are located in India, they're reporting to a North American manager, right?

So we're not saying you as this employee in the India office needs to change who you are. You are just meeting others at their bus stop, not expecting them to come to yours. And I say that to the manager and the leader as well. It's like, let's raise your awareness as to why. These designers, these software engineers, these designers are not sharing that they need help.

Why are there, why are they struggling to speak up? So when you actually educate both, it's like letting them meet in the middle is probably the best approach I found. So it's not that I'm just working with the teams of engineers. I'm also working with the leadership in the U S or. Canada or North America and saying, here's how you can start to flex.

And then ask also working with those engineers and saying, here's how you can flex to meet your manager where they are. And your manager also needs to flex and meet you where you are. I think with some insight as to some of the challenges that we have as Asians, it's helpful for managers. Yeah. To know this.



Yeah.  Both the parties come together. Right? Right. They meet halfway.  If the manager is having a hard time, though, understanding the employee.  What should they do? They should read my book 

and 

that was me being my own cheerleader. They should read my book. They should also work with me, but also seriously, like they should think about, Hey, there's a gap in my understanding because it's, it's a pattern, right? Like, so what, what happens often? And there's, because in Asian cultures, there's an, a more of a higher authority.

issue, right? So they might be  a little bit shy to say, Hey, I'm struggling. I'm behind on my deliverables. We're going to miss this deadline. So they may just wait till the last minute to communicate that. And so if that's a pattern, then that keeps happening. And you as a manager or leader keeps getting frustrated, but you're noticing this is happening a lot.

There's got, then you have to say, look, I need to look in the mirror and figure out why is this happening so much on my team? And it's, and then there's like, there's cultural nuances to it. There's your own individual leadership style, right? So it's never like a one sided thing. It's a multifaceted thing as leadership as a leader, right?

Those are really good patterns to recognize that if somebody's falling short constantly or there is a last minute deadline request. That that's a sign. Those are two really good signs to understand that. Oh, something is going on. And maybe there is, we need to take time to talk to this person to schedule a meeting one on one to understand.

What? Why this is happening?  

There's another, , there's the individualism and the collectivism, right? But there's also power distance is another intercultural dimension. And so in Asian cultures, the power distance is far greater than in the North America. So what that actually means is that, , in North America, it's very common for you just to go up to your manager and talk to them in a casual way.

Whereas in Asian cultures, it's actually a little bit more formal. It's like you don't just, , go into the office. You, you, you sort of, there's more of a level of respect and there's more hierarchy, right? And so when you think about that, that employee who might be in the India office or who might be in the Tokyo office or who might be in just an Asian office, they may think that there's a higher power distance and they don't know how to navigate it because that's their worldview and that's their culture.

So I think the onus is on both parties to figure out, Hey, I'm now reporting to someone and I'm working for a company. That's. Based in the U. S. And as a leader, , hey, I'm working. I have all of these people in these different parts of the world. Let me figure out some basic intercultural dimensions that will help me manage them better. 

 I want to explore the power dimension you just mentioned more. So in certain cultures, the power distances are are more 

right 

 Especially the Western culture where you are more on if almost on a friendlier term, your managers and supervisors, and you can actually just walk in.

But I see the hesitance and resistance.  , to do that for  Asian women. So what is the power distance in Asian cultures? What's the difference?  If there is any statistic or yeah, there 

is actually it's it's called hot hostage. I never say it correctly. Hofstede's dimensions. And you can go in and actually do comparison.

And so I don't have the stats right in front of me thinking through what the power distance is. But if you notice, like I was recently consulting with an organization that had a huge  employee and contractors in India, and there were a FinTech company in the U S and I noticed when I was searching, Speaking to the employees in India, they would call me madam.

And I love being called madam, but I also noticed that it felt a little bit like, okay, or they'll say, sir, they'll say, man, they'd actually don't say, man, they say madam. Right. And so you even notice in informal conversation, they are still having that level of respect. Whereas in the U S we will just go up to our manager or our leader and call them by their first name.

We don't say, sir, if we did, it would feel a little bit weird.  Or we don't say Mr. Johnson, or we don't say, , we have, even the naming convention is a lot less formal. So when you're, even as a leader, you are recognizing like, Hey, they keep calling me, sir. , it's like, you have to understand that.

Let me be sensitive to the fact it's in their mind and in their worldview,  there's a, there's a greater distance. 

Yes. The informality. That's a great example. 

When I go back to visit when I go back to visit my family in India, it's, it's nice.

It feels novel to be called madam. But then when you're in a daily situation and you're working with these people and talking to them regularly and they keep calling you madam, you're like, wait a second, there is in their mind, there's just a bigger distance. And so it's, it's just keeping it top of mind as you're communicating as a leader.

That these folks in this part of the world, there's just a higher, higher level of like respect and there there's a bigger level of fear about speaking openly.  

Yes, Asian female workers and corporate employees who are trying to strive  to become better leaders to go for leadership positions. 

Any tips on how to better advocate for themselves, especially If they are constantly being talked over,  

so I have a few techniques that I talk about or strategies in my book, but I think that that dial that we I really is helpful. So if , you've worked really hard and you feel that you deserve this promotion or you deserve this raise.

It's like practice, practice these conversations at home by yourself in front of the mirror, like whatever you need to do to sort of flex that muscle before you get into that performance review conversation, practice with a coach, practice with somebody so that it's not this new conversation you're having, because again, it's going to feel this really uncomfortable, but just know like, Hey, I need to turn up the I part of this, like be on the I part of the dial.

And also I, I need to practice because we can't just go into these types of situations and wing it. Like a lot of people think I'm just going to wing it and have the conversation. I'm going to turn up the eye and then I'm going to go wing it. It doesn't necessarily work that way when you're not comfortable doing it.

So practice, practice, practice every chance you get practice. Before you have that big conversation or even if your leader is  advocating for you in a round table, which happens a lot in large tech companies, right? Like you're actually not in the room, but your, your manager, your leader is the one that's there for you representing you.

It's like, make sure that when you're having those conversations to prep your manager or your leader, you have practiced those conversations before. And you also know that you need to turn up the eye. I dial. Yeah. So are there any phrases, example phrases for turning up the eye dial?  Yeah. Like thinking about, , we often, I don't know about you, but I actually, even when I'm being introduced in on a podcast or on stage or whatever, when they're talking about my bio, I start like cringing.

I'm like, Oh gosh. And again, it's not that I'm proud of my accomplishments, but it's like, you don't, I don't want to be boastful. I don't want to come across arrogant. So it's like, Because that has been ingrained in my DNA, right? To be humble, to be very humble, to keep your head down. And so one of the things that helps me is just, again, knowing that it's contextual and practicing phrases like my credentials, my accomplishments, my clients, right?

Even though it feels viscerally uncomfortable. And then if you're internal, my deliverables, these are the things I worked on. This is what I contributed to. So it's literally like when you're moving. That con the context changes when you're in a team setting and a brainstorm. If you come across too, I focused, you're going to seem like you're not a team player when you, so it's very contextual.

Yes, 

so I want to circle back to the fact that if the corporate  employees, Asian corporate, corporate employees are in a meeting or a group setting and they're being constantly talked over because that was me.  And one of the things I started doing, I think I read it in a book somewhere was to say, Oh  what? That's a great thought. And I would like to complete my idea, , if it's okay, if you don't mind. 

So what are some other phrases like that? Because I, I work with a lot of Asian women to for mindset shift,  and wellness coaching and This keeps on coming up that I'm being talked over and I don't know what to do. So what are, could be some other example phrases for or, or ways or techniques to Yes. To make your point get across. 

Yes, it's chapter five in my book. It's called, I call it interruption shields. So these are words or phrases that you use to jump back into the conversation, or if you need to interrupt, right? Because there's a conversation, but you have an idea and you want to jump in the conversation. So depending on the formality of your, of your culture, right?

Like, so for example, if you're in tech, you might just say, Hey, can we circle back to this? Because I want to add to it, right? Like you just are form informally sort of getting them to go back to a place where you want to interject. If you're in financial services, the one, the one that I used to use a lot was if I may, can I interject here?

I want to circle back to, would it be okay if I circle back to, and now I realize even would it be okay as asking for permission versus just saying, I would like to circle back to this point. Right. So you want to think about how you're interjecting, but. There are a whole bunch of phrases that you can use, but the idea is like they have to feel comfortable to you.

So it goes back to practicing. So start with one or two. If I may, can we circle back to, I'd like to interrupt here. I have a, I have a point to add here, right? Like you just figure out the words of the phrases that feel most comfortable to you and then practice every chance you get. 

 Practice makes you perfect.

Yes, or practice 

makes progress. I don't think of perfection because there's no such thing. So that's, that's a good point. Yeah. And also as Asians, that's the other thing. We strive for perfection because that's what we were, Our families, , you get an a minus on a test. And the first question is like, what happened to those five points or something, right? 

We are, it's built, it's in our DNA to be perfectionist. That's why when I work with Asian companies, with Asian employees, with Asian individuals as coaching, I always say practice makes progress because we're not striving for perfection. There's no such thing. So it's almost like undoing that that learning that we have in our blood, in our DNA.

 We should be striving for improvement at any point in time because  I always say like, you're right, like perfectionism is so ingrained, and I still tend to use the word because I'm a recovering perfectionist.  Yes, but when I coach and when I speak, I do say this, that, , it's like,  you're never going to attain that perfection.

That, that perfect, whatever that is in your head, like that destination, right? We are on a journey at any point in our lives and what we should be striving for should be improving at every point, right? Improving a little, a little, a little till, till you are, , just happy with your progress.

But. There's no perfection. That's such a great point. Okay, Neelu. So where can our listeners find you and your book? Tell us more about your book. Yes. 

So my website is neelucor. com. My book, you can find on Amazon, on Barnes and Noble, on Audible, anywhere you can buy a book. You can even go to your local bookstore and ask them to carry it if you want to support local  And I'm on LinkedIn is my most active platform and also Instagram with NEELU.

K. A. U. R. You will find me there.  

 That's awesome. So yeah, and Make sure you check out her book because it's a really good read. Easy read. And also it has tons of tips. We have just kind of like touched the tip of the iceberg here. So make sure you get her book and and yeah, connect with her because she's an awesome person.

I feel the same way about you.  



So thank you so much, Neelu, for coming. Thank you so much for having me. This is great. Thank you. 

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