Mold Toxicity and Your Health

Have you ever struggled with chronic, unexplained symptoms that leave even doctors baffled? 

In this episode we're talking about mold toxicity and its subtle but significant impact on health. Our guest Dr. Diana Stafford, a physician specializing in mold toxicity, is discussing this invisible yet powerful threat.

Understanding Mold Exposure

Dr. Stafford explains that mold isn’t just the fuzzy growth on spoiled food; it’s pervasive in our environments, from homes to workplaces. Mold can begin growing within 24 to 48 hours in moist conditions, leading to a range of health issues, from respiratory and neurological symptoms to immune system dysfunction.

Key Steps to Address Mold Toxicity:

• Awareness and Testing:
  • If you experience unexplainable symptoms, consider mold exposure as a potential cause. Dr. Stafford recommends urine and blood tests to identify mold toxins and assess your health.
• Environmental Assessment:
  • Engage a professional to evaluate your home. Look for mold-prone areas like bathrooms, basements, and HVAC systems. Limiting exposure is crucial in managing mold-related health issues.
• Healing Diet and Supplements:
  • Shift to an anti-inflammatory diet low in sugars and processed foods. Supplements like glutathione support detoxification, and working with a mold-literate practitioner can guide you through a personalized treatment plan.
• Mindset and Lifestyle:
  • Embrace movement and outdoor activities to combat stagnation. A positive mindset is essential—believing in your body’s ability to heal is half the battle.

You can learn more about Dr. Diana Stafford at https://www.doctorstafford.com/

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Transcript

 Welcome to the 9 to 5 Wellness Podcast. How are you guys doing? I'm doing great, today, I we are gonna talk about, some symptoms that most of us, deal with, but we have no idea, what's going on. So if you're someone who has ever dealt with chronic unexplained symptoms that leave doctors, scratching their heads, they've done your blood work and they're like, "Oh, we have no idea. Maybe, like, your CRPs are high, but we really can't pinpoint what's going on," then you're in the right spot. You are listening to the right interview because we'll be discussing an invisible threat, mold. 

And we have a wonderful guest joining us today who's an expert on this topic. Joining us today is Dr. Diana Stafford, a board certified physician and functional health practitioner specializing in gut health, mold illness, and toxins. She is the founder of The Detox Doc. We are so fortunate to have her on the podcast. Welcome to the show, Dr. Stafford. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

I'm super excited. Quite honestly, I don't know a lot about mold toxicity, but all the symptoms that I've read about it, I'm like, a lot of my patients deal with that. Like, how come we are not talking about it more? So that's why when we connected, I was like, "Oh, my gosh. I have to talk about this on the podcast." Yeah. Because I wanna help people understand that this might be something they wanna rule out. So I'd like to start with the basics, Dr. Diana. How are we exposed to mold? 

Yeah, absolutely. And it's so common, right? But something that we might not think about beyond, okay, we should probably throw away this food that has gotten moldy, right? But it's so much more than that. So we can commonly actually be exposed to mold in our indoor environments, home, work, school, car. I'm talking any indoor environment. And again, just off the bat, I do wanna say none of this is to scare anybody or to instill fear of mold, but just to be aware and empower you with this knowledge so that you can figure out whether you may want to get this- investigated if you do have some unexplained health symptoms. So mold is, , I don't wanna say mold is everywhere, but mold is ubiquitous. Okay? Mold is in the environment. It is doing its job. It is a decomposer. It is very important for that purpose. So that's all fine and well, but then when it gets into our home, for example, and say there was a water damage event, or even not even if you had a flood, but maybe just a leak in the bathroom, very common things, right? Mold can actually start growing within 24 to 48 hours. So mold grows very quickly if it's given moisture and an organic material to feed on. For example, dust, drywall, mold loves drywall, and a lot of the building materials we now use are actually very good food for mold. So there's a lot of different types of mold, but And some are more toxic than others, but it's a whole, different ... There's a lot of different types of mold. But it's not just black mold that we need to be aware of. It's all the different colors of mold, because not only black mold can be toxic, other molds can be toxic as well. So we have this fuzzy mold, right? That's not actually the issue for health so much. 

Oh, really? As- The ones that we see on our, fruit and stuff, like when it go- Well- Especially when berries go bad The component of mold, the components of mold that are actually an issue are the microscopic ones that we don't see, that we're breathing in. 

Yes, don't eat moldy food, right? But the components of mold that can actually circulate throughout our bodies are those microscopic components that mold puts off. For example, mold toxins, which are called mycotoxins, myco being the prefix of mold. So mycotoxins are a secondary metabolite. They're produced by mold whenever their mold perceives a threat. Like many times there's multiple kinds of mold. It's like a territorial defense mechanism. They put off mycotoxins. The mycotoxins can be in the air, they can be on any dust you have or anything like that, and then we can breathe them in and we can take them in also through food. So we get exposed to, some mold from being outside, but can be exposed to a lot of mold inside as well. And then this mold, the mycotoxins and the other components of mold can actually circulate throughout the body and then it can cause inflammation and it can actually affect all the different body systems. So not just respiratory. Like people think, oh, mold, you can be allergic to mold, and that's very true, and that's usually where conventional medicine will stop right there. They'll just say, "Okay, well, mold, like if you're allergic to mold then that's a problem. Like avoid mold." But that's usually what they say which, it's sad but true. But these, it's so much bigger than that because that's the spore problem. Like mold spores are what make the mold colonies but that's the spore problem with the mold getting into your respiratory tract. But again, those toxins circulating throughout can cause mold toxicity which is a issue of inflammation, immune system suppression, or what we call dysregulation, so it's either too active or not active enough, your immune system. Or things like neurologic symptoms, skin symptoms, urinary symptoms, hormone imbalances. Like all of these things can be caused by the inflammation and immune dysregulation that's from mold. As you can tell, I could talk about this exact question and topic for hours in and of itself, but that's in a nutshell, you know, what mold is and what components of mold actually cause health issues 

Wow. Yeah. And, from the symptoms that you're mentioning, like a lot of people have those. Yeah. And sometimes, yeah, they don't know what's causing it. Or like we are trying to figure out the root cause, and a lot of times like we are lost. No wonder. So I have a question for you, Dr. Diana, because I've noticed this in a couple of people I've worked with, that s- like people in the same family, same h- household, like this person h- has mold toxicity, but then the rest of the family is fine. How's that possible? 

So there are a few different factors. So one is genetics. So about 24, 25% of people have some HLA-DR, HLA-DQ genetic variants that make it harder to detox mold toxins from the body. And so they can get stuck in that chronic inflammatory response syndrome, or CIRS cycle with mold toxins, and mold illness. And then there's a lot of different terms that we use, but those are just some of them. And then the other factors that I find being very, contributing to this, being very important here, are the state of your gut, for example. If a person has a history of a lot of gut issues, then taking a lot of antibiotics or things like that, and then goes into a moldy environment, mold will wreck the gut. And then the gut really rules it all, like gut-brain axis. So we've got neurologic stuff going on, brain fog, fatigue, all of that. So any history of gut issues. The state of the nervous system, so if someone has preexisting, anxiety or a lot of traumas that they've had in their life, then going into a moldy environment may have more effect on their body than if not. And then the other thing is stacked exposures, because mold exposure can actually ... So it affects your body acutely, but also chronically. Like even if you move out of one moldy place, if you then proceed to move into several other moldy places in succession there, then these effects can add up over time. Even if, you know, a husband and a wife, for example, like they may have similar, gut status or nervous system status, but then if one of them has lived in, you know, as a child, lived in a moldy, basement or something, then, that would add up onto their current exposure. So there's a lot of factors, but those are some of the main ones. 

Wow. I had no idea that, mental health would be also, related to, mold toxicity. So you also mentioned, and I wanna, , dig a little bit deeper into this, that there's a connection between toxic mold and, GI distress. So what are we talking about as far as GI symptoms and then the impact it has on our gastrointestinal tract? 

Yeah. Research shows that mold toxins are actually directly toxic to the gut lining. So we can, , swallow them with, from the air exposure, or we can take them in through foods. There's a lot of foods that actually may have mycotoxins in them if, even if you don't see mold on the food. For example, a lot of grain products, especially corn, which is a grain, and things like coffee are very much known for mycotoxin contamination. Things like dried fruits have a lot of, nooks and crannies where you may not see that there's some mold or mycotoxin contamination. And ultra-processed foods, there's a lot of more risk because they've been around, there's so much longer of a supply chain there, and they just have much more of a chance for contamination along the process. So gut, , you can take them in through food. Again, food or environmental. And then the toxins are directly toxic to the gut lining. So again, there's a lot of different mold toxins. So some are more toxic to the gut than others. So I see a lot of people with a toxin called citrinin, and that's really toxic to the gut lining. Or DON is another one. There's a lot of them that really are especially toxic to the gut lining. And then y- they can cause or contribute to leaky gut or increased intestinal permeability, where then you get an issue of these molecules of your not fully digested food are getting through the gut lining and getting into your capillaries, getting into your circulation, and also irritating your immune system, because that is interfaces right there in your gut lining as well, and also irritating your brain via the vagus nerve. So bidirectionally from gut-brain axis. So it really has far reaching effects when it comes to the gut. 

Yeah. I wanna highlight, you just said something like the gut-brain axis going up and down, that not only are you gonna s- experience, , gut issues, but you probably would have, brain fog, or you might be feeling like, oh, you can't focus for too long, or you're tired- Right or, , fatigued, as in mentally fatigued. A- and I see that a lot of people who have mold toxicity, they have th- those symptoms. But again, they're probably thinking "Oh, it's because of the work stress," or, "It's because of the kids," or, "It's because of, , I just have too much on my plate." , But it's all connected. I wanna talk about respiratory issues, because normally we would place anything with, like mold, because we are thinking, oh, we are breathing it in So it's mostly the, the track from respiration. So people would tell me, they had asthma type of symptoms, or they had chronic sinusitis for years before they were, like, diagnosed with mold toxicity. So how is that connected to mold? 

Yeah, absolutely. I see a lot of sinus issues, especially like you're saying, the chronic sinusitis or people who are just, , always congested, always have a postnasal drip, or yeah, can have the seasonal allergies, but then they're not seasonal anymore. They just, , never go away. So if you have seasonal allergies, but then they're not really seasonal anymore, then definitely consider that it may not be just, , some one type of tree or whatever that you're reacting to. Because yeah, I mean, the mold spores can get into your, , your bronchioles and things like that, but then your mycotoxins, they then can go across into the circulation. So those respiratory exposures translate into the systemic exposures as well. So I do see a lot of, , asthma related symptoms, but I will say that respiratory symptoms with mold are not even as common as something like a brain fog fatigue. I think across the board, brain fog and fatigue are the most common. Almost everybody with mold toxicity or mold illness, as I like to call it,, deals with some degree of that. But circling back to the sinuses, yes, you can have mold spores, and you can have what's called colonization in the sinuses. So mold can be in biofilms there, which is me- means it's with bacteria and other things that are in the sinuses and continuing to drive this cycle of inflammation. So it all kinda goes back to that inflammation, immune system issues piece, where you can't fight this off 'cause it's "Okay, aren't we just gonna fight this off as we're exposed to it?" , We have a liver for that, right? Everything just kinda, processes out, right? It's fine. But actually, the liver ... Our livers are very overwhelmed by toxins at this point. Fatty liver, is common. , I read stats from anywhere from 30 to 60%, depending on which sta- study you read of adults have some degree of fatty liver or liver dysfunction in general. Don't rely on your liver to just clear the hundreds of toxins that we're all exposed to on a daily basis just by living in today's world. So it's definitely something that can kinda take hold in your body, and it can continue to have a lot of health effects. But healing is possible. So I know we'll talk about that, but, healing is definitely possible from mold illness. 

That is great. That's good to, hear that yeah, you can reverse it to some extent. What's the testing, like what kind of testing is involved, or what is the conventional testing, for mold toxicity? 

Yeah. So conventional tests don't usually find mold illness at all. So because ... I like to test directly for the mold, the mycotoxins. And conventional testing doesn't do that. I use a urine mycotoxins generally to test for the mold toxins. That is the only test that will directly test for those toxins. It's a urine test, so it will tell you what you're peeing out right now. So we have to take it in context of your symptoms, your exposure. Are you in a known mold exposure? Are we trying to figure out where this exposure may have come from, or things like that. And then because how much is still in your body, , we're not gonna go take a biopsy and, measure mold toxins. That, we don't do that. So and then you can test in the blood for the antibodies to mold toxins. So that's a bit of a different, , set of information, but also useful. So I'll get that in some cases depending on the person as well. But yeah. There are some other tests too ... so you can get, , a blood test for antibodies too. Is that correct? Yeah. So you can get the mycotoxin antibody test, which is a blood test as well, and sometimes if people know that they have issues with their detox pathways, like they have a lot of, lymphatic issues or, constipation, or, they know that they're a poor detoxer, maybe they know that already, then I would definitely do the blood test in that case. So either one is gonna give me some good information. But I do also wanna note a couple other tests that ... Because there's not only ... There's not one perfect test for mold. It's a clinical picture. The best test is actually working with a provider to go ahead and see ... Like, whenever people ask me what test to use, I say, "What are your symptoms?" Like, 'cause we don't know, exactly what you need only based on just, oh, what i- what test is it. I wanna know what are your symptoms, right? Yeah. So as a doctor. So I usually do gut testing as well, and I do, organic acids testing, which is gonna test for your cellular health, and it s- has a fungal colonization section. Lastly, I will say the inflammatory markers for CIRS, or chronic inflammatory response syndrome, are really helpful to see. If you have that, then I may have a different strategy for treatment than if you don't. So those, there's a whole list of that, , blood work as well, but suffice it to say CIRS labs Awesome. 

So I love it because you are like, , this is like music to my ears, that you're treating the person in front of you like customized medicine. This is what customized and personalized medicine is, and it should be. So you, you would probably start with a urine analysis, but you probably complement it with other tests depending on what the symptoms are, for the patient. So okay, let's say somebody's, test results come positive. , How should they deal with, , the environment that they're in? Their home, the quality of air in their home. How ... What are they doing to, mitigate that? 

Because of course they don't want to be exposed to it again and again, right? 

Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean, I think the first thing is just to, take a second and ... 'Cause it's very jarring and very stressful when you realize that your home, which is supposed to be your sanctuary and your safe place, is potentially making you sick. So I just like to have people do, , some nervous system exercises and not, , get stuck in that loop of like, "Oh my goodness, I What am I gonna do?" So it's ... That's the other side, right, is the environmental side. So the best test on the environmental side is actually gonna be an assessment as well. If you can get, you know, a, an, a mold assessor or IEP, indoor environmental professional to come in. And there's lots of There's v- vis- They vary widely, I'll just say. And as far as, like, how much they're gonna do and how, how good they are at what they do. So if someone does, who's listening does have, , an area of the country that they're in that they need a mold assessor in, then they could ... You can comment or you can, message me and I can see if I know anybody. , Because you really wanna make sure you're vetting these pros before you call them in. So, so that being said, so the best test is gonna be a, a full assessment of your environment. But if that's not possible, then, , there's also ... So I know of, like, a DIY course that is really good, , that is by some mold assessors that you can actually use to, , figure out where the mold, moisture issues are. But generally I would say, you know, if you're trying to figure out where the mold is and you can't get a mold assessment,, I would start by checking the most moisture-prone areas of your home. I mean, your bathroom, right? Like showers, bathroom. Like your showers. Yeah. Your kitchen. Under sinks, okay? And things like the HVAC is so common, , if you've never, , looked at your HVAC, you know, or, or had it serviced or things like that, then, you know, that's a good place to kind of check., But moisture-prone areas, and then, like, attics and basements or crawl spaces are really moisture prone be- and we don't really go into them that often. So it's like you may never have gone into those spaces, but they're still part of your home's ecosystem because they can be connected via the HVAC, which is the lungs of your home. So definitely it's a whole ecosystem that has to be considered. And- So yeah, I wouldn't even comment on, , what's the best, like, DIY test because all of them have limitations. You know, ERMI is the most informative of all of the tests, but you have to have 90 days approximately of dust to test that accurately. So it has to be done properly in order to get something that's not gonna just tell you indeterminate and stress you out more because it's "Oh, the test isn't really valid." And then you're like, "Well, why did I just buy this?" So, I would say call in the pros if at all possible. 

Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. Oh, I, I had no idea that it could be, like, a 90-day assessment. But thanks for explaining that. So, someone who, is recently, diagnosed with mold toxicity, what would be the first critical steps that they need to take to begin the healing process? 

Yeah. So my framework is called stabilize, optimize, and clear, okay? So the first phase is to stabilize. So we already talked about the nervous system, making sure that you are not in fight or flight or kinda working on not being too, , stressed out about the whole thing. But ... , and that's a whole nother topic, but you can do different, somatic exercises and breathing exercises to just keep as calm as possible while you're going through all this. And then- So other things in stabilize are starting a healing diet and limiting your toxin intake. So we already talked about the highest mold foods, but just basically broad strokes, it's low in sugar. , Mold and yeast, candida, which is mold's cousin, and feeds on simple sugars. It's a simple creature. , Low in simple sugars, low in processed foods. , And then you wanna go ahead and eat the rainbow if possible. Low inflamm- inflammation diet, right? Like anti-inflammatory diet is what I talk about for mold. And then as well, , if someone has gotten tested and already diagnosed with it, then hopefully they're working with a practitioner. But just to underscore that, working with somebody who understands mold, who's mold literate, like mold literate practitioners. There's a list of, that I'm on and hundreds of practitioners who are literate in mold and can help you. And then just there's supplements, that I use for, to help with mold illness and to clear those toxins and to cut down that inflammation. So just some of the big categories of supplements are gonna be gut stabilizing and gut healing supplements. Okay. And then, , things like zinc carnosine, things like aloe, things like that. And then some of the things that help with bile flow because toxins often contribute to bile sludge, and they often cause you to have issues with, the detox pathways or elimination. Like you can have constipation or diarrhea. It can go either way. So making sure that your bile is flowing well. So bile movers are helpful. And then things for energy, , and things for toxin mobilization and also binders. Like when we think about mold, a lot of things ... Or a lot of times if you look up like what do you take for mold, right? It's gonna say binders, and that's a huge category of supplements and also some prescription binders that basically ... mold toxins, like I said, are circulating throughout your body, or can be, and causing more and more inflammation. But- If you bind them, then they actually get out of your body, like you can eliminate them. So we use a lot of differ- I use a lot of different binders for mold. Some binders bind different mold toxins with different efficacies. , I'll tend to have a strategy where I'll use a combo binder or multiple different binders because generally there's not just like one type of mold that someone has been exposed to. So yeah, , a lot of that does tailor to the person, but we stabilize and then we optimize, which is like opening the detox pathways, making sure we're having regular bowel movements and, , if we need to do any lymphatic work or anything like that. And then to clear the toxins with that combination of mobilization, things like glutathione, things like that, and, binding. So it's all-- it's not one thing. It's gonna be a whole process. And I like to work with people for six months if possible because we can make a lot of progress during that time. But sometimes it takes longer. You know, Lyme disease is common with mold, so sometimes there's that to deal with also, or like autoimmune issues or things like that. Or there's layers that we peel back in a lot of cases. So it can take a long time. And then the other factor is, are you still being exposed? Because if someone is in a current mold exposure and is constantly breathing in toxins, you really can't out-supplement your way out of that. So I don't even do the six-month programs with people who are still in an active mold exposure because it's gonna be a waste of time, money, energy for them. So definitely, you know, there are things you can do if you're stuck in a place that you know has a lot of mold. , You limit your exposure to-- If there's one affected area, can you limit the access to that area or your interaction with that area? That's ideal. And then, air purifiers help to get those toxins down. Dehumidifiers help because mold, again, is a moisture issue. And then some supplements you can take during that exposure and some are too much, like for the body, if you have all those inputs already and then you're adding. You don't wanna add like 15 supplements onto all of the stuff that your body's having to deal with in an active exposure, but things like limiting your toxins in food, that, of course, you can do that wherever you are. So there are definitely a lot of things a person can do if they are currently stuck in a place that they know has mold 

Wow. Sounds wonderful. I love how you just explained that there are supplements you can take. Glutathione is really good in general too, and all the anti-inflammatories are great just for your health too. That's a great, place to start. Yeah, mas- the master antioxidant. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like the six-month time period, the timeline, it's a good... It's a doable, that's, That's a lot of, like, hope for people if they can remove themselves from that environment in a timely manner. But yeah, that's great. , 

Anything else that our listeners should know about mold, something that you commonly see in your patients and would like to share with our listeners? 

Yeah, , I think I would say anything unexplained. Just a couple of examples. If you're dealing with ... I mentioned urinary symptoms, but interstitial cystitis is something that I feel like is very common now, and people don't know what's causing it. It's this inflammation, right? Itis is inflammation. But it all goes back to, , toxin load in a lot of cases. So if you're dealing with something, any kind of, like, pain on your body, chronic pain, any kind of symptoms that your doctors have been puzzled over or are just saying, "Oh, it ... " Like you said, it's just anxiety. It's, , postpartum. It's getting older. It's perimenopause. It's this, it's that. It's whatever, insert the, gaslighting explanation. Then consider molds. Visual symptoms. It can be anything. I have a mold symptoms quiz because people say, "Okay, it can cause anything. That's helpful." But yeah, there are some things that are more common than molds, , than others with molds, like the brain fog and fatigue and then, , sharp ice pig pains. Oh. , It can cause, like, sharp shooting pains, actually. Oh, wow, like nerve ... headaches on the back of the head. Oh, kind of- like a nerve pain, but- in the back of your head? , And also in other places the pain can be, but I see a lot of headaches in the back of the head come from ochratoxin A, which is the most common mold toxin that I see across the board from Aspergillus penicillium mold. So if someone's dealing with that, or things that just don't fit with, , the diagnosis you've been giving a- and you feel like you're just scrolling trying to find some explanation, make sure you've checked into toxins and mold because yeah, mold isn't the only thing usually in the home's ecosystem. There's often bacteria and other things that go with it, but when you're detoxing mold, you're detoxing a lot of that, too, like endotoxins from bacteria and things like that. So this is all very useful just for, resilience. , And the other thing I would say that's really important in this whole process is just the mindset Because, , identifying with, not identifying with the mold. Like mold loves stagnation. , Mold grows in these musty, , environments that people don't go in. So if you are like that and stagnant and not moving around, and not doing anything, then, mold will affect you more as well, if that makes sense. Get moving, get outside if possible. I know you're all about that, which is awesome. And just keep the mindset that your body knows how to heal. , Mold has been around forever. It's nothing new. Our bodies have been dealing with it. We- our bodies are just more overwhelmed with all the toxins in the modern day, and also the building materials are not what they used to be. And so there's all these factors that go into the fact that mold seems to be affecting everyone out of nowhere here, but it's really not that. It's just that we know more about it, and also these other factors that I mentioned. So, you know, keep the mindset that your body knows how to heal and, you're gonna overcome this. And then those are the people. Like I can tell who's gonna heal quicker in my practice, and it's the people who say, "This is my year," like, "I'm gonna heal this year," and they're talking positively. , If someone has decided that nothing's gonna work for them, it might not work. Yeah. Everything starts with your mindset, yeah. That's the biggest, I think, the biggest treatment. 

Absolutely. That's the starting- Yeah ... that's the starting point. It's like I don't even have to do that, but I can tell, , off the bat, I can tell off the bat if someone's mindset needs work or if we're good on that front. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm so glad that you brought it up. 

So Dr. Diana, where can our listeners and viewers find you? 

Yeah. So I'm The Detox Doc on all platforms, and my website is drstafford.com, with the doctor spelled out. 

Awesome. Great. Thank you so much for sharing all of this information with us, and, your wealth of knowledge. , I have learned a lot, and I bet our viewers and listeners will learn a lot too, 

I do wanna, put out a disclaimer here that, and everything that we discussed related to mold toxicity on this episode is just for educational purposes. This is a conversation between two friends, this is just for knowledge and for education purposes. It's not a diagnosis. And it's not an official, prescription or treatment plan either. So for that, please consult with your healthcare practitioner. 

Thank you again, Dr. Diana, for joining us today, and for everybody here who joined us live or in a recorded, episode of 9to5 Wellness, thank you for joining us i'll talk to you guys soon. Bye.