Pillar Talk: Building Sales Leadership with Rick Smolen
Join Rick Smolen and other seasoned B2B sales leaders on the quest for defining great sales leadership. Learn the pillars of successful leadership, hear stories about what works and what doesn’t, lessons learned, and come away with specific tactics you can apply to your job or career right now.
Pillar Talk: Building Sales Leadership with Rick Smolen
Hiring Great Talent: Erich Wolters on Mindset, Clock Speed, and Closing the Deal When It Counts
We sit down with Erich Walters, VP of Enterprise Sales at Loopio, to dig into hiring for mindset over process, measuring clock speed under pressure, and making decisive calls when the quarter is on the line. We also explore AI handoffs, long-game recruiting, and why relationships still matter.
• Erich’s path from Gartner mentorship to team-building philosophy
• hiring great talent as the leader’s top priority
• mindset versus process and how to test it
• resilience, purpose and clock speed in interviews
• the P-Club interview question
• preparation as a filter for enterprise credibility
• outbound talent nurturing and memorable outreach
• relationships as leverage in an AI-first world
• automating AE-to-AM handoffs
Check out the Linkedin Post that inspired the episode HERE
Music by Ben Cina & Ayler Young
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Pillar Talk where we build the foundations of sales leadership success and attempt to create clarity in terms of what good looks like for current and aspiring leaders. Just a quick review of the pillars. We talk about talent identification and attraction. Both are difficult. We talk about the operating rhythm with which the leader runs the team, which is measured in my mind by motivation, engagement, and accountability. We talk about business planning, which is planning for the future rather than reacting to the things that are happening to you. It's actually pretty difficult to do the former and easy to do the latter. Mastering the craft, which is coaching the team and helping them win. Communication and ownership. Today we are fortunate to have Eric Walters as our guest. Eric is the VP of Enterprise Sales at Lupio. He leads the strategy, he's doing hiring, he's doing tons of coaching, he's executing at a very high level on large enterprise deals across the entire company. Prior to that, Eric was the VP of sales at Wise Systems. He led go-to-market efforts and enterprise sales there. And in addition to his impressive sales leadership background, Eric is an entrepreneur. And outside of just doing the SaaS leadership thing, he runs and founded Timely Souls, a curated luxury watch and also sneaker venture that he launched in 2023. Eric, thank you for joining Pillar Talk.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, thanks so much for the invite, Rick, and great to see you again.
SPEAKER_01:Eric, what did sales leadership and just the world we're living in today teach you that helped you build the confidence to actually go launch your own entrepreneurial endeavor?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I, you know, my career in sales started really, I think, when I was a kid. I always had like a passion for uh convincing my parents to let me do something. I was that kid that was not like getting kicked out of school, but getting in trouble at school. And so I had to work my way through different privileges with my parents and convince them that they should trust me to do something when maybe my actions hadn't said otherwise at school. So that ability to influence was something that I had to really learn quickly as a kid if I wanted to actually do anything. And um, and as I grew up, um, I started collecting cards and like kind of alternative investment stuff. So sports memorabilia, baseball cards. That eventually evolved into uh sneakers, which evolved into watches as well. I'm now into like kind of cars now as well. So big into alternative assets primarily because I always got super bored by watching uh investments grow on a computer uh spreadsheet or whatever, right? Just like there's nothing that appealed to me about investing in a company and watching the stock grow. I would prefer to actually experience the assets that can also appreciate and value. And so um I think sneakers are horrible investments. I don't recommend anybody try to invest in sneakers, but you can actually invest in luxury watches and do pretty well. And you can wear them on your wrists, they're great networking tools, uh, and they're also a hedge against inflation, and they do uh trend with the price of gold. So, you know, a lot of very important current uh themes in today's world.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Uh Eric, we had uh, you know, I had the good fortune of been able to work with you in the past. I observed as a sales leader uh some of the attributes that made you effective is just sort of one discipline always observed you being consistent and you know your work ethic and consistency of just being on top of things and creating the right environment. Um and then recently I saw that you posted on LinkedIn about hiring. And so you are in a time right now where you're trying to bring new people into the organization. We know how leveraged of a bet that is. And you posted about here are the 11 questions that I ask in every interview. What was the background on how that came together?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So uh I've actually been in the fortunate position um at Lupio this year where I actually have been actively hiring. There's not a lot of organizations out there that are hiring as much as we are right now. So it's a really fortunate position. And as as I've been involved in hiring so consistently this year, it compelled me to kind of put this post out on LinkedIn and share some of uh what I think is working uh in the process. But where this all came from was um really kind of back to my days at Gartner. So uh Gartner um research advisory company, it was my first uh role in management, in leadership, and they had some outstanding training there. And I also had some outstanding mentors in that business as well that really has influenced how I hire, retain, coach, develop talent since then. And one of the most inspirational leaders that I worked with, um, a guy named Peter Prasico, he was the uh managing vice president for the Northeast. And um, I remember uh Pete recruiting me to be a manager. Um I initially declined because I was so excited about the upcoming year as an individual contributor and what I could contribute there, the money I could make there, uh, but he eventually convinced me to become a manager. Uh so I want to give Pete that shout out. Um, you know, look at me now. Uh but one of the things that Pete always uh always talked to me about, like first and foremost, it's always about hiring great talent. Always about hiring great talent. And and I actually worked for another manager uh before I became uh a leader at Gartner, his name was Scott Rose. And um he I thought was the best manager I've ever seen at being able to hire and assemble just a record-breaking team. And I and I remember talking to my wife uh and just observing like Scott's work habits. And Scott wasn't afraid to take a vacation, he wasn't afraid to take a little bit of time off because he trusted his team. And I remember my wife always pointing that out to me. She's like, Eric, you can take a week off of work and not feel about it, not feel bad about it, right? Look at what Scott does. And and so I didn't quite connect the dots on that because I was such a young manager. I felt like I had to be in the business every day, like getting my hands dirty, being the super manager to prove that I belonged in the management position to the people that I hired. Um, and as I've matured as a manager, um, that that has changed and it's also influenced the way that I hire so that I actually create my own teams now that are modeled after that incredible team that Scott Rose built and uh inspired by just the importance of hiring great talent that I learned from Pete Prisco uh back, you know, 10 or 12 years ago, uh, maybe a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01:So what were some of the things you observed that Pete and Scott you know did? What are some of the early takeaways? Because it's hard to just copy-paste. Like you'd learn some things, and then of course you're gonna have to stumble a bit along your way and learn some of the lessons through experience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. I think the the most important lesson that I learned from them was that getting to the numbers is first and foremost about getting the right people on your team. And I remember Pete uh pulling me into an office. He says, Eric, what's the most important thing that you do as a manager? My response was, Pete, get to my quota, of course. And he's like, Yeah, you're right, but that's actually not the most important thing that you do. The most important thing you do is you hire great talent. And he would always sit down with me and be like, Eric, rank me, rank your team to me. Who's who's first? Who's number one in your team? Who's last on your team? And whoever's last on your team, are you performance managing them? Are you looking for the next number one guy? Right? So the conversations with him were not always about this deal, the forecast, the quarter. It was, Eric, tell me about your team. What do you like about them? How are you coaching them today? How do you stack rank them? And how can I help you? Right. Um, that was really uh inspiring to me and kind of set me on the trajectory of I was still a very young manager, so I didn't quite understand it. But as I've matured, it's become something that I constantly think back to and tap into in my own hiring practices and as I shape my team here at Lupio.
SPEAKER_01:All right, so how do we connect the idea that like as a manager, it is about the team, the team that you assemble, the team that you manage along the way. What about those lessons around how to actually build that team? Is the go out and find the talent proactively? Is it assessment around it? Obviously, it's probably a bit of both.
SPEAKER_02:Like yeah, it's certainly a bit of both. I mean, you you've got to have the experience uh to get the interview, but but to actually get the job, um, you've got to demonstrate uh the right traits and behaviors that um I know when you come into an environment uh and you are coachable, uh, that I can enable you to thrive and to be successful. So, you know, first and foremost, it really comes down to mindset, growth mindset is the most important thing. And actually, this is a question that I ask every candidate that I meet with. I ask them, I say, what's more important? Mindset or process? Um I I won't automatically disqualify a candidate if they say process, um, but it's gonna be an uphill battle for them to win my favor if they think process is more important, because I'm I so passionately believe that success, not only in sales, but generally in life, is about your mindset. And that 90% of every outcome that you're working towards, it's it's your attitude towards it. And if you've got that mindset that uh allows you to be coachable and to um reflect on like your experiences and know that you can shape those and that you can control what you can control. You've got the right attitude, the confidence, the conviction, the courage, the grit, the resilience, like all those ingredients that go into a winning mindset. Um, you can be successful anywhere. You just need to be in the right environment. You need to have the right leader to like unleash that talent to be successful. So I'm always pleased when candidates immediately answer mindset, and I will tell them that I think that's the right answer. And they kind of give me their explanation for why.
SPEAKER_01:And hopefully there's a story around that as well, like an example of how that mindset has been a part of whether it be adversity or difficult deals in the past, if we're talking about a sales capacity or that type of thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, there's a there's always a story that goes with it. It's typically some type of loss uh that they learned from. Uh, because I think in sales, uh, we lose a lot more uh than we win. And our success over the long run is our response to that loss. Um uh my manager Scott Rose actually told me something that I still tell my team today. Spend five minutes in victory and spend five minutes in defeat.
SPEAKER_01:It's difficult to spend five minutes in defeat and five minutes in victory, but that's five minutes in victory is easy, five days in defeat is easy as well.
SPEAKER_02:I know, I know, but but you gotta but you gotta learn from from those experiences and and those losses, and that that is something that uh that I definitely expect. And and something else that's really important here is that like if you think about it this way, right? So like um most organizations have a sales process, and if they don't, I'm sure they're working on building one. And so like you have 10 reps that are all following the same sales process, then why are the levels of performance different, right? So like they all know the process. Why is one guy or gal overachieving while one guy or gal is is underachieving? I I'm extremely confident it's just their mindset. And you know, are they adaptable to certain situations? Are are they reflective in the losses? How quickly do they rebound from the losses? How can they bring conviction and enthusiasm to every conversation, no matter how they're feeling that day? Um, you know, how how much energy they bringing on Monday mornings, like those are the difference makers to me that they're gonna set your top performers apart from everybody else. And that's what I really try to look for in the interview process is you know, the folks with those types of traits that uh knowing that um you know tough times don't last, but tough people do.
SPEAKER_01:And let's dig into those traits a bit. I mean, you just talked about what I would describe as resilience, you talked about energy, which is a bit of that charisma, and you know, being a little bit more, I always say be more memorable, um, which is a way of you know doing that. What are some of the just if we go down into that mindset that you're looking for, what are some of the attributes that are most important to you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I think that uh resilience and perseverance is extremely important. That's right at the top of my list, right? So like I will always ask a question centered around like, what are your long-term goals? And then tell me the last time that you didn't achieve a goal. What did you do? And it it's a it's an interesting kind of flip in the interview process because we spend a few minutes talking about long-term goals that the candidate has set for themselves, and we're talking about the positive, the aspirational, the future. And then I immediately reverse the psychology on. I say, well, when's the last time you missed a goal? What did you do? How did you adapt? What did you learn? And in that is uh, I think one of the most important questions that I asked in the interview process because it gives me a sense of like, A, are they actually real about setting goals? And B, um, how painful are the experiences that they've had when they've missed something? And how quickly are they able to account for uh that miss? And how accurately are they able to describe uh what they learn from that experience? So like I'm measuring the grit and the resilience in that question, but I'm also measuring the clock speed of the candidate as well. Um, because I think clock speed is extremely important, especially enterprise sellers working with large multinational organizations, engaging with executives, you better be quick, you better be um you better be able to ask the right questions, you better be able to challenge, you better be able to reflect in the moment. And so that clock speed in these types of questions is also something that's important for me to measure because every engagement that I'm having with them in the interview process, I'm I'm imagining how are they how is this going to translate into an actual deal.
SPEAKER_01:And by clock speed, you mean like the pace with which they're reacting and answering your question?
SPEAKER_02:Correct. Yeah, correct. So think about Jeopardy, right? Like you got you got what, like three seconds to answer the question in Jeopardy, right? So like the the clock speed, precisely.
SPEAKER_01:Got it. Because you're picturing them in front of an executive that's impatient and is going to switch off and you know, credibility out the window if that clock speed doesn't match theirs.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. We we have to be able to make uh strong impressions quickly, and we've got to be sharp.
SPEAKER_01:Um, do you view long-term goals as prerequisite for performance in an enterprise sales capacity? I find that many don't have strong long-term goals. What are you looking for there?
SPEAKER_02:Wow. So um, yes, I think it's hugely important. And this actually comes down to something else that I haven't brought up yet, but but it's a great question. Um sense of purpose, right? So resilience in grit isn't a reaction in and of itself, it has to be founded and grown out of something. And that something is your purpose, right? So um my purpose is to make sure that my, you know, what when I was a kid, my dad always said that he wanted to have X, Y, Z. He couldn't give it to us. So here I am, I've got this amazing sales career and this amazing opportunity. I can actually find an opportunity, give that to my family. And that's what I tap into. And my goal is to be able to get there and achieve that. And so like I want to understand through the interview process to tap into the why behind the motivations. Because like what when I like a question that I ask even before the long-term goal one is like, hey, sales is really tough. Like, what do you tap into to keep going? Right? How do you do that? And if I get like really surface-level question or answers to that question, I'll I'll always double-click on it because I really want to understand what it is. And then I try to understand, okay, well, this is the purpose they tap into. Are they actually able to attach their long-term goals to that purpose? And and I have found um, you know, with with the uh you know, the recent hires that we've made here at Lupio that everybody was able to answer that question uh very, very directly uh and with the right amount of detail that I would expect.
SPEAKER_01:So it isn't necessarily the goals in and of themselves, it's the clarity for you and understanding what's motivating people, what is their driver, what is their purpose. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's that's exactly right. Because back to the original point, I hire on the behaviors and I hire on how well this candidate's mindset is tuned, and the the sense of purpose and having a recognition for what that for what that sense of purpose is uh to get you through the tough times is really important for me to be able to identify that they have identified it. Because when they have that, that's going to be something that inevitably it's gonna be we're gonna run into some difficulty when we're working together. How is that person, or what is that person gonna tap into to keep going?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I imagine that the answer is often some type of like to provide for my family, support my family type of variant. Is that typically what you see?
SPEAKER_02:It is, and it and and I don't, I, I, I don't accept that. I I I dig further because that is not an acceptable answer. And I say, and I in the way that I reply to that, I say, look, um, everybody says that. Everybody obviously wants to provide for their family, um, everybody wants to go buy a home, right? But what what what is the what's the why behind that? Like, why is that so important? And when you start to dig in and you can do it in a you know very diplomatic, curiosity-driven type of way, candidates don't get offended by it, but they appreciate your interest in learning more about their situation. And I think that in the interview process, they're assessing you just as much as you're assessing them. And in your ability to bring this level of cure, genuine curiosity to the interview is something that they'll reflect on uh at the end. And I think these 11 questions that I posted on LinkedIn, this is actually a way for you as an interviewer to distinguish yourself from the other companies that are that this candidate may be may be meeting with. Because I'll tell you, nearly every time I finish going through these questions with a candidate interview, they nearly always say, I've never had anybody ask me those types of questions in an interview before. And um and I love and enjoy the conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it I mean, a lot of what this is about is getting past the surface level. A lot of it is about getting to the real sort of drivers and motivators and um behaviors of somebody, and you're in a position to understand what that's gonna be like for them in a role, and you're trying to sort of get the real of like how who they are so that you can put them in that context and see is that gonna be a win for everybody? Because it's not just about being a win for the company, it's about being a win for the individual. Getting a bad hire is not only bad for your company and your job, it's bad for the person. Like everybody loses in that type of context. So the stakes are super high. Um, you you you when you're looking for, you know, you talked about the question around um they didn't achieve a goal. Is the is the the motivation there around authenticity and just sort of self-awareness? Like, like what are you looking for there?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it it is, it is for sure. You know, I I I want to make sure that the candidate isn't isn't the type of person that comes off and says, hey, I've never missed a goal. It's it's like the candidate that and and I've talked to some candidates that have actually done this where you ask them, like, hey, tell me about a deal that you lost and and what did you learn from it? And and they actually can't even think of one. And I'm like, What do you mean you can't think of a deal that you lost? Like, I I literally still remember my most painful deals from 15 years ago. Those are my favorite stories. Yeah, yeah, totally, right? So, like, I you you you gotta have an answer to that question uh so that you're able to um you know show that like you're reflective and and most importantly, you're somebody that um learns from mistakes, right? So I think all of these situations are ones where there's been um some type of mistake or some type of lesson learned. And and those are the most powerful moments in your career, which come after the losses, and how do you adapt yourself and your business after the loss to be able to uh adapt and win in the future?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So it's it's about not only are we going into that resilience area, but it's about that growth mindset and continuing to learn from it so we don't repeat the same mistakes again and that type of thing. Um, so all right, we've we've we've hit a couple of those questions, and of course, I'll share um you know the link to the post so that anybody can see them. But what are some of the ones that stand out here that are like the things you get the most excited to drill into the conversations with candidates?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, for sure. So my my favorite question is one. So I was actually in a I was in like a manager mentoring program at Gartner, and and I got paired up with um a manager in Sweden, and uh, and I had like uh bi-weekly just mentor calls with him, and uh and I was doing a lot of hiring at the time, so I was like curious, I was like, all right, what do they do in Sweden to interview sales guys and gals, right? And I was like, you know, tell me what you do, what are some of the questions that you ask? And the the question that he shared with me remains like my favorite interview question to this day. And so it it's a scenario where it's going to make any candidate squirm and uh and think deeply about how they want to answer this question. So here's the question, right? So it's it's the final day of your fiscal year, and you have a deal that's gonna get you to P Club, and it's gonna get your company to plan. Okay. So it's the only deal left. And you're on the phone with your prospect, and they tell you, hey, I can get this deal done now, but the pressure that you're placing on us, it's actually gonna put the relationship on the rocks from the start. So my question to the candidate is like, do you press for the deal or do you let it move into the new fiscal year to save the relationship? And I pause.
SPEAKER_01:Hold on. Yeah, all right, good, good, because I'm I'm gonna attempt to answer this. Okay, great. Yeah, playful about it. But I'm gonna be candid here for a minute. I'm getting that damn deal, Eric. That's the right answer. That's the right answer. And Rick, you you would be I mean, it's an uncomfortable, like, I feel almost bad in the way that you framed it, but it's like, well, listen, it's putting it a little bit on the rocks, but like, we're gonna get this done.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, look, 100% that's the right answer. And I'll tell you, the the best salespeople I've hired, immediately like, I get the deal. But I I find the vast majority of candidates are not that decisive in the answer to that question. And and so they're like, well, the the the answer that I get most of the time is it depends. It really just depends, and you know, the the relationship is important, and you never want to start off on the wrong foot. And I tell them, and I let them kind of think it out and play it out, and then I and then I ultimately will kind of share like my perspective on it. But yeah, it's like, look, you you you are you're in sales, you're paid to get the deal, you're paid to close business. So get the deal, and you have at least a year to fix the relationship, probably two or three years to fix the relationship, right? So that that's the correct answer. And um, I would say probably 30% of candidates that I talk to will say, yes, I get the deal. Uh, probably 60% are like it depends, and they waffle and they don't give me a straight answer, and then the remaining percent are um, no offense, um, service-based sellers that should probably go into CS.
SPEAKER_01:Um, well, I'm thankful. I'm feeling good no matter what. Oh, yeah. That like I've, you know, that is a well-framed, and you make it comfortable for the responder to that question to not say get the deal. And so you're looking for someone that's like, yeah, yeah, I get that there's all this stuff going on. We got a deal to go get, like, and the the sort of tunnel vision and the urgency that's required in order to like it's sales, is especially enterprise sales, is pushing the boulder uphill every single day. And I always joked around that enterprise sales, you only close the deal when all the joy is gone. Only when all the joy is possibly gone, is it now set up for the deal to win? And so if you don't have the mindset of like go get the deal, nothing in here was ethically challenging. It's just like, hey, it's just gonna be tough. Like, yeah, um, that is a great, great question. So um, which leads to another one, which is like, how much do you know about me? Which is about preparation and doing your research.
SPEAKER_02:And now anybody that's gonna interview with in the future, they you've given the answers to the test here, well, what's funny is um I post so I posted this uh uh post on LinkedIn, and right as I was in the midst of interviewing a lot of candidates, and there were I think two that actually read the post and kind of knew where I was gonna be going with my questions, but nobody else has, right? So it's actually it actually is a little bit surprising because one of the first questions that I ask everybody is like, how much do you know about me? Right? And and I asked that because like how could you show up to an interview without knowing your interviewer and at least spending a little bit of time to get to know them beyond the you know rapport building stuff? Because you know what, if that's their approach to an interview with me, what are they gonna do when they're preparing for that C-level meeting? It's gonna be the same approach. And it's like, dude, you're it's probably not gonna work out here if you're not actually even doing your research on me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Well, all right, we're not gonna hit every single one of them. I think that was a fantastic sort of overview of some key ones and what you're thinking about. I'm gonna sort of incorporate some of these into my uh interviewing. I wanted to ask you a little bit just about hiring. How much time are you spending going outbound and attempting to get candidates that fit a profile that you're interested in versus you know, receiving the inbound flow of candidates? And how do you find balance between your pursuit of because you can, you know, like you can go and find people that have maybe it's industry experience, maybe it's like sales background, but you also can get you pull up host a job these days and you're going to get a lot of applications. What's your balance between the two?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, look, I mean, in today's market, there's no shortage of candidates and um and resumes that you're gonna see. So I I I'm fortunate enough where I've been working with my people partner um for for so long. She's extremely skilled in filtering through the candidates and actually putting in front of me um candidates that she thinks are going to be close enough to the bullseye. And and we've actually, I think the best thing that a people manager can do is that, right, in terms of a recruiting partner. Not wasting people's time with candidates that just aren't going to hit. So it's really been a lot of inbound lead flow, but I will say that it's it's extremely important to always be developing your network proactively, even when you're even when you don't have a job opening. And that's actually one thing where there's been a really um healthy crossover between my watch posts that I put on LinkedIn and my SAS sales position. I get so many inbound DMs from really successful salespeople that are like, hey, Eric, I'm thinking about buying my next watch. I saw that you might know something about watches. Like, would you mind connecting and we can talk about watches and we can talk about sales? And the guys that are planning on buying luxury watches with their sales commissions, they're actually doing something right. They're actually closing business and hitting their quotas, and they want to recognize and celebrate that. So, like, I actually have found this really unique and interesting way to develop a pipeline of really successful software sales guys just by posting about watches.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's super interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I I've tried to challenge myself uh recently to do outbound on uh candidate profiles, even if we're not immediately hiring. Uh, and I think there's a bit more importance on this in a vertical SaaS context versus a horizontal one, because you know, you have a huger pool in which you could be selling your solutions into many industries. Um, and so there's a you know a bigger universe of potential of potential enterprise sales professionals. And uh, you know, it is true that you in vertical SaaS, you don't necessarily need to be uh an expert in that vertical to succeed in role, but it certainly helps. And you need a balance between getting folks from inside industry and developing the skill set from folks along the way. Um but when you are in a you know a specific vertical where there's a lot more taxonomy, there's a lot more sort of technical requirements on deals, and the learning curve is just simply longer from someone outside of that zone, um, it's a bit easier to go fishing. And what I mean by that is it's a bit easier to go identify the folks that are relevant, certainly directly relevant from a direct competitor standpoint, but also like tangential type of companies. And so in this context, I view it as almost malpractice to not be nurturing some of those and developing some of those relationships. And so, you know, whether it's even at an event or a conference, but also just like LinkedIn being such a great source, it's like reaching out to a handful of individuals every week as a discipline. And not all of them are gonna, you know, connect with you. But I find that if you know I'm a chief revenue officer or I'm a you know senior sales leader versus a talent acquisition person, the response rate will be higher. And then entering that conversation with like, let me deliver some value to that person. And even if now is not the time, like I still remember conversations I've had in 2024 with individuals that like it might be 2026 when the stars align, but I've fostered and at least initiated the relationship. Um, I remember whether or not in the way they engaged, whether I wanted to continue. Now I can incorporate some of your questions into that in the future. So I'm just trying to, you know, I've been thinking more about that balancing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. It's it's extremely important. And I think it as you noted, especially in like kind of a vertical environment where that specialist uh expertise is going to be somewhat scarce. Um and uh and I think it makes a lot of sense to be outbounding uh as a result.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I do the outbound, super simple. Like, don't overthink it. It's more about the execution. You don't need the perfect message. Um, I put together like a bit of like a candidate pitch deck, which is like, I want this to be valuable for them. I want to educate them on like what we have going on, what's our org chart look like? What are the big priorities for the year and the big goals? What are the challenges they would face in a role, and then turn that into like what are their experiences with those same things so I can learn about them while educating on what it's about here? Uh, even talk a little bit about like personal values and things like that. And then I just say, hey, these are the types of things we're looking for. Like, do you want to pursue this type of conversation or you just want to stay in touch? It's like a very safe type of thing. But I I do view just like you said, as like, I want to be memorable. I want to make sure that they didn't feel like I'm just transactional. I'm just like, hey, are you looking for a job now? Like, oh no, all right, bye. Like, no, like this is we're playing the long game here. Um, and I don't find people do enough of that. I actually try to uh advocate in many other areas that like they're out there, they're easy to find. Like, spend it's worth the time to go in and do that small amount of work, and you will stand out because not many are doing it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it it's it's entirely true, and it's a principle for life, in fact, right? So I actually to weave in the watches again, I I wrote a post this week about how to develop how to get like how do the guys that walk into the role expertise boutique um how are the guys that spend nothing and walk away with a blue dial skydor or a panda daytona, and then the guy that spends$100,000 walks in and doesn't get anything good. It really comes down to are are you like a good human being and are you trying to develop a relationship with your AD, your Rolex A D? And what can you offer from a networking standpoint for that individual that's gonna benefit them just as much as they're trying to benefit you? What can you educate them on, right? The guy that goes in is like, hey, can you put me on a list and can uh and give me a call next time you get one of these is never gonna get a call and is you know probably not gonna go on the list. But I actually I have a friend who's uh who I sourced a watch from. Uh, he told me that um he uh he owns a restaurant chain in uh the northern area just north of Austin. And every every Friday um he gives complimentary catering to the Rolex boutique that he gets his watches from. He's like, hey guys, I got you for lunch every Friday, the second Friday of every month. They lunch comes in. Does that guy get a call every time a Daytona comes in?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that's fantastic. Of course. What's so interesting is like it used to be sales were so relationship driven. Remember, like the you know, you're in the challenger sale was all about like the relationship person is the type of person that you think is like going to be the successful seller. No, it turns out that like the buddy and the friend is not necessarily like the right profile. And so no, you need to be like a challenger and you need to like be disruptive and you need to be like an industry expert and you need you know process driven. And it's like, well, no, yes, all of that is true, but like relationships still do matter, they have not gone away.
SPEAKER_02:Especially in this uh age of AI, right? I mean, like what do we as humans still possess? We still possess like the ability to have a relationship and the ability to have empathy and emotion. And I mean, what we we still have that. We're always gonna have that, and that's never gonna go away.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, Eric, to close out here, anything interesting, any innovations that you've like brought to market recently that you're like, or something you're experimenting with now to try to either add productivity or to do something new and different, what do you see in?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I I actually published something on LinkedIn about this uh, I think a month or two ago. But um, you know, just if you think about in your organization, any meeting that is strictly information based, um, how can you actually just churn that into an AI summary, right? So uh, for example, uh when we bring in new business deals, there's an information exchange between the account executive and the account management team. It's just strictly information exchange. And and what we know is that the AEs don't like filling out the forms that they have to, that they have, that the account management team's looking for. And the account management team does not like looking up to look or uh showing up to a first call unprepared and not knowing the context behind the sale, right? So what we've actually started to do here at Lubio is we have integrations with Gong uh through Salesforce, and then we are uh bringing all of so we're bringing all of the previous call notes uh from Gong and using Gong AI to import that into a Word doc. And then we're bouncing Gemini uh off of off of the uh summaries against a template that is the most common questions that the account management team wants to know about that new customer. And we've fully automated that process with AI using Gong AI and Gemini. So to now we don't actually need to have these information transfer meetings again between account executives and between account managers. It's now fully automated. And it's I think a great use of AI where it's like, hey, do we really need this meeting on the calendar where it's just an information exchange and we can just fill out a template and give you what you want, and then everybody's happy and we save some time.
SPEAKER_01:We're talking about the handoff from a new deal from the sales team to the implementation team. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Common set of questions, these are the things we need to know. Now AI goes in, reviews every sort of interaction historically around it, answers it. There can still be some connection if maybe you know the small percentages that weren't covered need to be still covered, but we can get to either 100% or mostly down the road without. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anything else that you're excited about that haven't tried yet?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I mean, I I've been hearing a lot of things about tools like clay. Um, you know, we we just bought a um uh an AI coaching tool that I'm I'm really excited to to be jumping into so that we can scale coaching uh using uh using AI across the business. So that those are all things I'm really excited to start experimenting with and learning more about.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the time flies, Eric, it's always great to see you. Thank you for spending some time with us today. Um and we will see you next time. Awesome. Thanks, Rick. Appreciate it. Reflecting on the conversation we had with Eric Walters, I think the first thing that stood out for me was when we started talking about the assessment of candidates. Eric leaned into the idea of attitude and mindset over process. And the point he made to emphasize this was that many established organizations have a process that folks adhere to and yet do not get uniform results. They get high variability in results. And Eric attributed that to mindset and attitude. And so he tests for that. And it's a great reminder for us. Eric talked about these 11 questions uh that he focuses on in an interview process for enterprise sales talent, something that he's developed over many years. And we went into some examples of that uh that have some thoughtfulness behind them as it relates to getting the right team built, which is obviously critical for the success of the business. Um, there was lots of interesting ones that I don't normally hear about, clock speed being a great example of that. He's thinking about not just the content of the answers coming in, but the credibility of the individual in keeping up with the pace of an executive that they might have to be selling to in the future. So clock speed, a really interesting and different one that stood out for me. I like how he pursued authenticity, uh talking about deals that are lost. That's something people aren't generally comfortable doing. Um, I love that deal uh where, you know, the sales leader in Sweden had uh set up that question, and it was really about delivering on killer instinct and getting folks that are going to drive urgency and drive deals to close and not be in a position where things are going to happen to them, but they are the ones that are going to make things happen. Uh, really enjoyed that. And it really does amaze me in our conversation about the lack of preparation that happens in the interview world. And of course, that relays perfectly and correlates to uh preparation and lack thereof in the sales world. And so when you find the folks that come prepared, like that is a you know significant, valuable attribute to come across. Eric has many more. Um, I'll be sharing the post uh you know in my Substack following the release of this episode. Um, and lastly, I just enjoyed our conversation around how relationships still matter. You know, if I think about the evolution of SaaS sales and technology sales, it used to be highly relationship-driven more than 20 years ago, heavy reliance on the seller to be educated. Now there's so much information out there, we need to be more prescriptive and identify problems that are worth solving and become a bit more process-oriented. And there's Challenger sale and many other ways to be consultative and value-based sellers. Like, I totally get it, but relationships still matter. Um, and so when we talked about this dynamic of um, you know, how to be more memorable. And, you know, he gave the example of like who gets the best watches from the Rolex dealer. It just reminded me that perhaps we've over-indexed on process and that, you know, people being their individual cells still has high relevance. And that's good because, you know, I'd like to think I'm a bigger personality type guy. Uh, thank you to Eric for joining. Thank you all to listening. Thanks to Ari Smolin for producing, Sons of Summer for the tunes. It was a lot of fun. We will see you next time on Illinois.