Cheeky Run Club

How to interpret data from your wearables

• Phoebe Pincus

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Hello and happy Monday Cheeky friends! 

We thought it was time to take a deep dive into all of the different measurements and readings our wearables give us. We unpack:

  • How to interpret resting heart rate patterns to learn if you're overloaded
  • How accurate HR measurements even are on watches/rings
  • Wtf is HRV, what's normal, and how to respond to it
  • The validity and meaning of body battery/stress readings

And generally we can use technology to help us listen to our body!

The legends at Pillar Performance have generously setup a discount code for the Cheeky community, use CHEEKY15 at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. Thanks to Pillar for making this episode of Cheeky possible!

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, Tiktok, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper. Logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Anna:

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work and run on Aboriginal land.

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This episode is brought to you by pillow performance and they're very delicious, very relaxing magnesium powder.

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Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello Phoebe.

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Hello Anna.

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And hello listeners.

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about how we can use technology to help us listen to our body, or our bodies. We will then answer some listener questions however, first, as always, we'll kick off with our notable runs of the week. Um, Anna, tell me about your best run or running related experience this week. My best run My best run was this morning. We are fresh off a jog with some of our friends. We just went locally around the river and I felt as if our chats this morning were really interesting.

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for a run and chat.

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we were talking about different attachment

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different attachment styles.

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running chat. It's like, 6 o'clock in the morning you start running, and within 30 seconds you're having

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You're deep Yeah.

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just someone mentions that they've read a reading a book on it and then boom It's your deepest, darkest childhood.

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of the weather

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the weather's normal. Yeah.

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It was really interesting even to think and reflect on your own attachment styles. I don't know.

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What did you learn?

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I am as voidant as

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Gordon O'Shaughnessy fan. But yeah, really like it.

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Um, but yeah, really liked it. And then, Dave and Ted met us at coffee and we have a guest, a special guest recording with us today.

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us today. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. The Tedinator is outside eating breakfast. So if anyone hears some ruffling a bit later, you know exactly what's

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you know exactly who

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I know, I know. Treat him mean, keep him keen, as they say. No, he has a pink ball and he has to roll it around to get the kibble out. Anyway, no one wants

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he has

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Um, what was your best run?

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around to

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Or running experience?

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people out. Anyway, no one wants to hear about that. So, Um, what was your best run Or a running experience. with my sister and my nephew. And my nephew just turned four and he's just learned to ride a bike. And my sister's been taking him on these, like she loves running but obviously finds it really hard to like find time to get out by herself, go for a run. But now she's like kind of training him. to, that's the wrong way to finish it, finish it like that. Not Training him, but like, he loves being on the bike. So it's like amazing to him. And so I joined them on this run and it's so funny. They go about two K's Cause like he can't go that far really. yet. And She warned him

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He's in training though. yeah,

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happily sits there and eats his cracker. And then he's back on his bike. And it was like intervals. because you'd been like, Sprint for another 50 meters and then he'd be like, Oh, I want to like, have a look at this bubbler, or like, go on the swing or whatever. And so it ended up being the 2K sort of taken like, I don't know, not an hour, but like

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while. It was a while

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There was a lot of stuffing. But yeah, it felt really special to get to like, be on that with them. It definitely made me think.

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to be a

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Oh, I feel like any mums listening would be like, duh, it's going to be a lot harder to run when you're running

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Wow, that is a good, that is a crazy revelation. Sorry for

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I'm not going to be able to run the same way that I run now.

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it's, um, funny you say that because you obviously don't have social media. Yeah. but Um, cheeky's Instagram, where you follow your sister and she posted these photos of your weekend up on the Gold Coast and they were so wholesome. And I actually saw a photo of you running with Flynn riding along the beach and and you had a little backpack on.

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Because he initially started being like, I want to carry your water bottles in my backpack so that you can have water when you run, which is very sweet. But then within like 10 meters, he was like, I don't want to carry this anymore. I was like, okay, I'm running with his Like four year old backpack. It was really nice.

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Very wholesome.

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lovely.

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Um,

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tell me about your worst run or running related experience.

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Mine was a running related experience. And this is, we're also fresh off this. This was last

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we're also flying.

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Dave and I went to dinner at our friend's house and I just went to the bathroom in the middle of dinner. Um, and

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that everyone,

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anyway. I

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some stage music. Um,

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I guess it relates to running in the sense that everyone, you know, at some stage has had toilet

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doing number two. Surprised. Surprised.

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And I, yeah, didn't realize, anyway, I ended up doing number two and I,

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surprise,

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and

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Uh, just a, just a regular, very, there was nothing special about it Anyway, flushed and the little piece wouldn't flush down the toilet. It was almost like a floating rafter. It wouldn't actually go down. And so then I thought, oh gosh. I waited probably 10 seconds and then flushed again and realized again, it hadn't gone

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I started stressing

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It was so buoyant and then I started stressing because I thought, they would have heard me flush twice

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just let the toilet reset,

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still not going out there and then I thought, I'll just let the toilet reset. I'll go wash my hands and then come back back to where everyone else was third time, didn't go

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just went

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and then I just went into this state of panic because I thought. They have heard me flush three times. I've got to come clean. And I just ran out there and I said, Oh my gosh, something really bad has happened. And initially I didn't actually. Appreciate that the music was quite loud. So, they hadn't heard any of these flashes. It was all in my head. And I told them what had happened and then they started laughing. And then our friend Peachy, she came in with me and we tried to do it a fourth time. and it still wouldn't go down. And by this

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were just in the

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were just in hysterics. Cause we were like, this thing just wants to be in our live.

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in our

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Dave rushed in.

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Was, almost a

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I I think cause he was almost a bit embarrassed on my

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stopped laughing.

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stop laughing. I just thought it was so funny. And I actually had to excuse myself cause I was laughing so hard. Um, and then they, yeah, they got it down on the fifth go.

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Uh, She just held

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Uh, she just held the flush down for ages.

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because

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But it was crazy because it was something, there was nothing like, there was nothing different about it. It was just,

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had you eaten anything that would have made it buoyant? Like, oil. I don't know.

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this

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bubbles?

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I thought this was funnier in my head. It was really funny last night, but now that I'm explaining it, I'm not sure if this should go on air.

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just that, yeah. It's too late now. It's, it is a loose connection to running, but I know what you mean because people do have toilet troubles when they

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also for your question.

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make people feel less ashamed.

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Toilet dramas. What is your worst run slash running experience? This

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that is so funny. Um, mine was actually on Tuesday. My session, even though I've been loving, in the last few weeks I've been loving my sessions. This Tuesday, I think for a couple of reasons I found it really hard.

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I should

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Reason number one was, you know the first few weeks getting back into sessions and you're really kind on yourself because you're like, oh, You know, this is great. You're just getting back into it. Good on you. And now I've had like a few, good, I've been back for like two weeks doing sessions. I'm like, Oh, you got to be like, I just had expect high expectations of myself. The other reason was, I was trying to keep up with Nos, our Spanish Correspondent, knows, I don't know why in my head I thought that was a good idea. Like, she is So, fit. And I should have known from like the second rep. I was like, I am ruining myself. I'm not gonna be able to do the rest of this session. now. But Anyway, the main reason, I think, was that I did a HIIT class on Monday. Um, with my dad. When I was on the Gold Coast still, and not just, No, at a gym. And not just any old gym, but a altitude simulation gym. Yeah.

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been reading about

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Yeah. So I actually think, cause you go to what, Hurt Locker? I feel

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Yeah, well, I, loosely, yeah. I've been a couple times. A Hybrid.

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this one I think is called Air Locker, but I might've made that up. And My parents

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Yeah, they are, There's a chain called

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Yeah. Well, I think, I haven't

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There's one in

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as much in Melbourne, but there, there you go. I think they're quite big in Queensland. My parents started going for it when they are training for High Altitude Hike they were doing last year, but then they really enjoyed doing it. And so they still do it. And so it's basically I reckon it's really similar to the hit classes you would do at Hurt Locker. Yeah. But it's like at simulated at like 3,500 meters altitude, which is,

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Yeah, I've never been at that altitude

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I have. And it's really like, I've done hikes that altitude. And it is well, like I've and you know, been with people who have had gotten bad altitude sickness at

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Yeah. Really?

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do HIIT classes normally, so I also didn't have really a strong comparison, but like, I was doing squat jumps for one of the things, and you do it for like 20 seconds on, 10 seconds or five times, whatever. And I could barely get off the ground. Yeah. And I was like, I just feel like normally I could Do this. My legs were just like, so fatigued and so lactic y. So it was a fun thing to do. I'm very impressed. Dad does it every day. Wow. Yeah. But yes, I don't know if I'll be, I don't know if I'll be going back. Maybe I will, like, over Christmas do it with him

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gonna

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I am so excited to dive into our main topic

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I know I mean we were texting each other yesterday. both saying this is so interesting We have access to all of these different measurements on our, like from our smartwatches or your Aura Ring, But I've never actually understood what they do

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Yeah. And I, I actually. Yeah. Yeah. can't believe how much I didn't understand a lot of these and how they worked and what they're actually measuring and how accurate they are. and what to take away from them. So we started, I mean, when we started off talking about our prep for this episode, we had like 15 different data points we wanted to look at. And then we realized there's just so much information on each of them. So we've picked kind of our top five. Um, I've looked at a few, you've looked at a few, and we're going to kind of explain and teach them to each other. So we'll talk about. We're going to focus a lot on heart related metrics. We'll talk about resting heart rate, your heart rate in exercise and heart rate variability. And then outside that we'll look a little bit at stress and body battery slash resilience as well.

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We did put a call out for questions related to wearables.

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many good questions!

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so much asking them. We will answer one specifically at the end, but we have also found a lot of the questions asked, we'll answer them throughout the episode, and I will say before.

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researching

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this. I, I don't know how much I believed in all of the data

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completely, well we should, we should, um, preface, we both have Garmin watches.

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both have Garmin watches.

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Forerunner two, six, five. I

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Okay, and then I've

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do you? Okay, and then I've got an Aura ring Um, as well.

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Work? Yes.

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in a,

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And

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heart rate strap. Because I didn't believe in the wristwatch.

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Yeah, I think it's reflective of how I feel about a lot of health related information, which is like highly skeptical, don't know what to trust. and tend to ignore. But this has been really useful to go through because I think it's so much more valuable to like be educated on what does it mean? Where does it come from? How reliable is it? Like how much research actually is there behind it? But then also like we, for each of these points we thought about like, how do you interpret them? How do you respond to them? Um, and I think that was really important as well as like As you learn to take the data more seriously, thinking about how to actually respond to it. Yeah, So, let's get into it.

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All right, peeps, tell me about, the resting

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Resting heart rate. Okay, so, As a high level definition, your resting heart rate is the number of heartbeats per minute while you are at rest. So generally that's when you're relaxed and you should be sitting or lying down. however, one of the first things I learned about it when looking at this from a wearables perspective is really the most accurate resting heart rate measurement it can get is when you're asleep. If you don't wear your wearable to bed, the resting heart rate measurement is not going to be accurate. If you are, if all variables are controlled, so if you're sitting still, it's fitted correctly, then your resting heart rate measurements are super accurate. The main percentage error of a Garmin is only just over 1 percent and for Apple Watch it's less than 1%. So like, for our purposes, For like, amateur athletes, That is amazing. And Aura is even better. Aura is 99. 9 percent reliable. But that does change when you exercise. So these kind of sensors that, Garmin's and Aura's and all these devices tend to use, which are those kind of optical heart rate sensors, think it's that relevant, that is really impacted by movement and particularly during intense exercise. So the accuracy does decrease a little bit as you exercise. Although again, for our purposes, it's still pretty accurate. So how do you actually, work? So I'm going to ask you, do you, do you look at your resting heart rate? Do you use that data point at all day to day? at all. I the, I mean, the only to be honest, I go onto the dumb app is Insta. Um,

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hasn't loaded on Strava, so I'll open the app to make sure my watch is actually connected to my phone. It's only really been since researching this that I've been more interested in actually looking at my data points.

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Well, yeah. So as a general rule, your resting heart rate on its own isn't going to tell you much.

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So it's much more important to know what your typical resting heart rate is and then to look at significant variations either way from that. So one of the most interesting ways that I found of like how you can look at your resting heart rate is looking at Patterns in your resting heart rate at nighttime. and this is so interesting

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in when you

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when you sleep Yeah, so my aura ring is often telling me about my recovery score when I sleep and I never really understood where it was getting that kind of information from but there's these really interesting research about when Your resting heart rate reaches its lowest point during the night So basically if we go back to the sleep episodes that we learned about with Liv, we learned about in the, like, earlier parts of your night, you're more likely to have deeper phases of sleep. The way they think about it from a resting heart rate perspective is, the first half of the night, is thought of as like a repair stage. This is over simplifying, First half of the night is repair, second half is recharge. And the, the marker that they use to determine when your body is switching from repair to recharge is when your heart rate is at its lowest. So the sooner in the night that your body reaches it's full lowest resting heart rate, The more efficient your body was at recharging that

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that your body's recovering a lot. Whereas if you're over training, or your

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not straight away, but in the first half of your sleep. And that's a sign that your body's recovering really well. Whereas if you're over training or your body's under a lot of stress, then your resting heart rate often won't reach it's lowest point until much later in the night. And that's a sign that it's taking your body ages to recover. Which is something, like, that, that's actually, like, reading about that, I was like, oh, I was seeing that. I could see the graphs that my aura was showing me, but I never actually knew what that meant. And It just showed, like, my body was taking so much of the night just to recover. from the low. I would love to know, have known that Yeah.

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A few months ago, even when we were, starting out marathon block, as you were saying, you can kind of like match things up with your training and general life stresses.

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Another system, showing how well rounded you are

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it's

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hard, on the tissues, particularly, um, we'll talk about this a lot, but particularly when it's a transplant, and you're seeing over a week or

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listen to like maybe the negative signals that your body's giving you. Whereas a data point like this, particularly, and we'll talk about this a lot with different data points, but particularly when it's a trend and you're saying over a week or two weeks, it's constantly lower, later in the night. I think that's a really Good indication that your body is really struggling to recover from the load that it's under and it doesn't, that's not just running load, that's life load, that's your stress, that's your work, that's everything else.

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Okay,

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am so excited to learn about heart rate and exercise. Yeah,

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Yes, well, it's Self explanatory really. uh, exercise heart rate is the number of times your heart beats per minute while you are exercising. It's a great indicator for how hard you're working and can help you avoid overexerting yourself. The Garmin watch, as well as the other smart watches like Apple watch, They measure your heart rate at the wrist. There's a sensor built into the back of the device. So a lot of people, uh, particularly with the garments, they might notice the flashing light at the bottom. And it detects your heart rate by, shining that green light through your skin, which is reflected by the red cells in your skin's blood vessels, which I always knew there was a light there, but I didn't actually know what it was doing. Um, the other option for measuring heart rate is to pair a heart rate strap with your watch. And that works by measuring the electric signals that fire in your heart as it beats. this method is typically only used when you're actually doing a run or a cycle or some sort of gym session. Because yeah, it's obviously not that practical. There's always just been the heart rate straps, um, that, uh, the chest straps. But now, as I mentioned before, like I have the arm strap, which I find it's so comfortable. I think especially as a woman, the chest straps, because you're wearing that plus a sports bra, they can be quite constricting. So it's really good now that they have the different options. Garmin also now, I haven't actually tried it, but they have the

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Yeah, Clips on to

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onto your sports bra. Which I feel like would be so, so good to use.

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the, the chest straps, the only chest straps that used to be available, Their, ideal positioning was, like, As, red on pocket, was, like, Should be measured around your nipples. And it's like, in what world? is that

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What is that

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for women? like,

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isn't.

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that's, that is, that doesn't work.

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Yeah.

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but sorry, is there, or maybe, sorry, you might be about to get to this, but is that armband one and those like heart rate monitor specific ones, how much more accurate are they than your garment? Or your Apple watch, I

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so as you touched on before, the accuracy varies on a couple of different factors, which, are magnified, I guess, when you're exercising factors like tattoos or obviously any sort of activity when you're using your arms during exercise. Even if it's just like a minuscule movement, that movement on your wrist can be detrimental to the accuracy of

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Like the position, and

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So I guess when you are wearing it, you want it to make sure it's quite firm

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make something. Yeah.

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sort of just rolling around, not rolling around, but moving around And the temperature as well. So cold temperatures can make it harder for the sensor to measure your heart rate when you're exercising. Yeah. and also things like high humidity altitudes as well.

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Oh wow.

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So there are a couple of things. to consider when you are training. There was a 2022 study that set out to evaluate. The validity of prescribing exercise intensity using wrist worn devices. 30 healthy subjects were, tested doing a, exercise test, where they wore a Garmin Forerunner and an Apple Watch Series 6, and then also, were hooked up as well to an ECG machine and then all of those results were actually compared to each other. The findings indicated that high validity of the exercise prescriptions based on the heart rate measured by both the Garmin and the Apple watch. Like they were really, really accurate. Yeah. which I found I, don't know, as I said before, I was always a little bit skeptical.

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think Well, that's why you bought an armband,

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is why, Yeah, but it's, like, pretty interesting to know.

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I reckon that has, like, even in the last few years, they've gotten so much better. Because my old garment, which I had for about five years and, so yeah, maybe I bought it six or seven years ago. Yeah. It couldn't differentiate in a session when I was doing efforts or not. that's how Unaccurate it was. Whereas now. If I'm doing even if I'm doing short reps of like 30 seconds on 30 seconds off, I can see it rise and I can see it fall, which gives me so much more trust in it because it's clearly linked to my effort

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when trust in my hips, it's me into my head.

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know,

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a couple of months ago when you were struggling and you were feeling quite average when you were running and then you were looking at your heart rate and it was elevated In comparison to now, it's sort of backed down. avoids overexertion.

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my watch,

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I think a lot of the time people are very caught up in, and I have been in the past. I mean, I even got told by a friend this morning, I noticed that my watch, I was like, Oh gosh, we're running really slowly. And she was like, Oh yeah, we are. This is right at the start, but we were kind of going in circles And

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And, I think

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And then I didn't even mean to, but I subconsciously, I just sped up. And our friend Mel was like. that. doesn't mean you need to speed up. And, I was like, Oh yeah. Anyway, so you can avoid exercise over exertion. I think this is really key as well when you're running with people or you're actually doing a session it's good to be really sort of like individualized and specific and it also means that you can tailor your exercise routines So back when I was on a training program, you know, one of my sessions back in the day a whole two weeks ago,

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of

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One of my sessions each week would purely be based on heart rate which was like the threshold tempo session. Um, That was my the measurement that I followed

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know, some

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And I love doing that because, you know, some days you when you aren't feeling great, Your threshold might be at a slower pace and then other days when you're feeling good, it might be at a quicker pace. So it's really good to make sure you're not overexerting yourself.

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So how do you know what your threshold tempo heart rate is?

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It starts off, I guess, with your maximum heart rate. So, the general rule, which you might've heard of, it's the common full formula of two 20 minus your current age.

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Is that accurate?

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Yeah, So it's a guideline from the American Society of Sports Medicine. They acknowledge that more complicated formulas exist, but any alternative hasn't actually been proven to be universally more

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just say,

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usage. This also says your max heart rate is normally, within 10 points of

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our max heart

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just say, what, we're 30. Ours might be between 180 and 200. Wait. Yeah, yeah. So it would be, from the formula, it would be 190. But it's sort of suggesting that our max heart rate would be anywhere between 180 and 200. So it's a good baseline.

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Okay, we're both 30, but I feel like your heart rate is much lower than when we run. Even when we're both running easy, or like tempo

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Yeah.

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Like I feel like your tempo range is lower than mine. Like why does that happen? and

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I guess that's why there is a range. Maybe my max heart rate would be on that lower side. So it would be about, yeah, 180 and yours might be like closer to 200. which is, uh, it is a big difference. guess how to respond to it. I know that the Garmin specifically has zones, and people quite often talk about zone running and I didn't really know much about it or what the zones actually meant. They Can be a really great guideline to follow in training programs, it simplifies things a lot. So rather than actually having to do the maths yourself, the Garmin can actually set up heart rate zones based on your age and gender. And the more that you wear your device, it's obviously going to have a truer rating of what that max heart rate might be. So each zone has a different perceived exertion level. Zone one is, 55 to 65 percent of your max heart rate.

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Have

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you seen in races, like how high does your heart rate get when you are like working as hard as you

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Working, uh, mine doesn't really go above one 90.

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Yeah,

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Mine gets up to one. 80 what does yours get up to?

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your assumption? Yeah. yeah. I sort of stick to, I remember looking at

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yeah. Yeah. I remember looking at the half marathons and I always Float around the 180. Yeah, For majority of

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I would say that's, quite

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

actually, yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

so yeah, zone 1 should be used for warm up. Zone 2 is an easy pace but slightly deeper breathing, still having a conversation and 65 75 percent of your heart rate. This is when the range starts to get a little bit smaller. So zone 3 is It's still aerobic, um, but it's a bit more difficult to hold conversation. And that's 80 to 85 percent of your heart rate. And Then zone four is the fast paced, more, threshold, so 85 to 88%. percent And then zone five is literally sprinting. So that's 90 plus.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah, that's race. I feel like that's like race. You're really Probably maybe over

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah. So I feel like the heart rate zones, I, I never have, I feel like there would be a really good tool, tool, tool,

IMG_2892:

tool,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

tool, um, to use for your training, for your running training. No, I've never looked at zones.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

at zones. Um, one, Um, one Sixteen. again, I

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Like 170, but again, I've never had threshold or lactate testing that was just Ellie, my coach, would look at the like general trends and then she estimated. So mine was always a range between sort of 170, 172 to 172.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yes. Okay. That is so interesting. Yeah. What did you, um, with like, Because I've seen criticisms of zone, of the zone structure saying that's ridiculous if you haven't got a lactate threshold test. You don't actually know what your zones are. But is that fair or is that, like, do we need to have a lactate threshold test to know? I

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

mean if you're trying to break a world record or get an Olympic gold medal or

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

is 1 percent

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

yeah, then that would probably matter. But I think as a general rule of thumb, these these measurements are super helpful. And I just, yeah. I was going to say near enough is good enough.

IMG_2892:

No, honestly,

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

I, tend to agree with a lot of this. I'm like. we're dealing with some general rules and things that you probably shouldn't be doing. Exactly, and

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Exactly. And what's the alternative? You're either gonna drop hundreds or I don't even know how much that testing costs thousands of

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

yeah. I don't know. So tell me

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

yeah. So, tell me about heart rate variability.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

is a really interesting topic.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

rate is very, very low, and I totally miss it. Yeah, not

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

I remember hearing people talk about it being like, I actually don't understand this at all.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

to miss it. Whereas, my

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. And then when I was starting to look at getting an aura ring or getting different kind of wearables, I started learning a lot more about it and trying to understand, okay, what does this measurement mean and how useful is it? to explain what it is so you can understand the science behind it first. Basically heart rate variability is a measure of the variation in time between each heartbeat. So a higher heart rate variability Means that there is more variance in time. there might be like, okay, I'm actually just gonna like demonstrate. It might be like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Not that much, variation, but like, whereas a low heart rate variability, it's like a metronome. It's like boom, boom, boom, boom. Like it's, it doesn't matter if your heart rate is slow or fast. It's like how regular is it?

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

And

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

And the interesting part of it, which is counterintuitive to begin with, is that a high heart rate variability is actually thought to be better than a low heart rate variability. So we'll talk through why that is. Basically, what, the thing that determines the, your heart rate variability is essentially your autonomic nervous system. And that's the system that engages your hypothalamus, which is the, which is what, um, impacts or activates either your sympathetic or your parasympathetic nervous system, which is something more people will have heard of. The sympathetic nervous system is related to the fight or flight response. And then parasympathetic is more kind of rest and relaxation. And so actually what happens when your. Sympathetic nervous system kicks in, so that's your fight or flight response. Your body releases adrenaline. You know, there's a lot of effects of that, but one of that is that, the variation between your heartbeats tends to be lower. Basically, it's like you're in a state of stress. Your heart regulates and it is like really focused and it's working really hard to stay on a strict beat The more relaxed you are, the more relaxed your heart is and it's kind of adapting. The idea is that like if there's high variability It's adapting every second. It's adapting a little bit more to its environment And what's interesting is that like very small data point is predictive of or correlated with so many other interesting health metrics. it's like things like your resting heart rate, can reflect things like your body recovering, your training load, but there's much more of a delay. Whereas because this is so tied in with your nervous system, it is like almost predictive of, things like training overload or like of those things starting to ramp up. It's important to say that same with your heart rate, people's natural heart rate variability can be really different, your baseline. So it is much more about, like, get a device that measures it, measure it for a while, understand what your normal range is, and then you can start to look at variations from that and interpret them.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Wow.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

night of sleep, a relationship strain, exciting news, eating a good meal. It's really sensitive to all these different things. I will say it's, it's a pretty.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

events,

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

It's a murky thing to read about online. There's a lot of really dramatized kind of information. This is one of the quotes that I read.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

he's

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

A consistent baseline of score of 70 or higher is associated with health, whereas levels between 50 and 70 are compromised health and diseases, whereas a regular heart rate variability below 50 puts the person at risk of catastrophic illness and even death. And like, that is insane, like, Tom, my brother, who is an incredibly fit person, his is often around 20. And he's very fit and healthy and like, this is why it's really important to just like get comfortable with what your own natural one is.

IMG_2892:

don't compare.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

When you say 20, where do we want to be?

IMG_2892:

20.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Well, so

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

What's the measurement? Is it zero to a hundred? No. Oh, okay.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

my normal is like 150. And then if it's low, it might get down closer to 100. If it's good, it's up to 200. So the way that you should use it is like. um, Know what yours is look at and then look at trends. So you can use it on an individual data point basis. Sure. You can notice things like, Oh, I had a drink of alcohol last night. A beer, a drink of alcohol. a beer or wine. And That's like That's like the classic thing that people notice straight away when they start tracking their heart rate variability. You can so clearly see the

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, right.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

but probably where it's most useful is to look at trends and look at, Oh, okay. It's kind of been going down, what are the different factors that might have caused that? Am I overtraining? Do I think I'm getting sick? Is it stress? So it's just like being in touch with your daily score, note what habits are sort of paired with lower or higher, and then you can kind of start to make general changes in your life.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

it's interesting. Okay, so do you look at your heart rate variability on your Garmin?

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

I never have before. This week.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Garmin, does track it. I would say that unless you're sleeping with your Garmin, it's not going to be that

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, which I actually

IMG_2892:

Have

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

you started?

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

I never take it off because I'll lose it. So I feel like my data would actually be quite

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

I don't even take it off. most of the time when I'm going out.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

it would be so interesting. Yeah, it would be so interesting for you to look back

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah. what Yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Would hate to know what it was in June, July this

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah. I wonder. But it would be, yeah. And

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

It would be good though.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

speak back to like our marathon block, like this was my heart rate variability and my resting heart rate were two things that like I had not been paying much attention to. But then when I was deep in that hole, I looked at and I was, I could not believe how bad they both were. Like my resting heart rate had gone up nearly 10 beats per minute for that month that I was really struggling. and my heart rate variability was like a quarter of what it normally is. And I was like, okay, my body clearly was under a lot of stress, whether that was, you know, you then need to go about the kind of investigative process of figuring out why that is. But they are, when you, when you struggle to take your own body cues seriously. I think these data points can be so useful.

IMG_2892:

Mm.

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

A quick word from today's sponsor, Phoebe, our challenge includes you getting a little bit more sleep, and how can pillow performances, magnesium powder help you do this? So my question, is, so

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

So magnesium has been found to help recovery, lower stress levels and support our immune system. So it's really a great combo for everyday amateur runners just like us who are trying to do a lot with their day. interesting anecdote here is when I was in the depths of my marathon, training exhaustion, I was overseas and I was really struggling to get enough good quality sleep. And I was heading to Copenhagen and I knew that our friend Borge, who works at Pillar, was going to be there. And I didn't have any magnesium on me, I hadn't brought any, with me over there, which was a real oversight in retrospect. And I actually sent him like an message being like, Borge, I have an emergency, I need some magnesium. And he got some to me, smuggled it in, and I truly think it helped me reset my sleep. And what I'm going to do now, we'll talk about in the listener question a little bit how one of the features of Aura is that you can do experiments. I want to do for the next few weeks now that we've got our hands on some more magnesium is actually do an experiment where I track and I'll let you guys know what impact taking that magnesium has on my sleep. Love

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

the magnesium powder is also gluten free for all you silly yaks out there. Vegan and made in Australia so everyone can enjoy it.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

gluten free for all vegan and vegan Australia, so everyone can enjoy it.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

And so let's talk about, um, I mean, maybe we'll lump the final two together. Stress and, and body battery.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Stress is a, fairly new health focus metric to allow people to analyze their fitness and identify outside factors affecting their performance. Anyone that really has a smartwatch, may be familiar with the stress score being presented when you open the app. Or if you're someone like me, your watch might sometimes buzz with a relaxed reminder.

IMG_2892:

Does that make you relax when you see it?

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Or are you like, oh god,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

me out more.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Relax. Um,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

And, Again, the more you wear your watch, the more accurate your stress score and body battery will be. The body battery feature is designed to help you monitor your personal energy, resource. it does this by continually analyzes the combinations of heart rate, heart rate variability and movement data while you wear your device.

IMG_2892:

And slip.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

And sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goal of this analysis is to identify the physiological states and to describe the impact they have on your energy levels. So at a high level. it means documenting. if you're awake or asleep, when you're physically active, when you're tracking less levels of stress during periods of inactivity. So in terms of stress, the watch, as you were saying, it takes a baseline, Heart rate variability measurement when you're inactive. And then the algorithm compares the resting value to the current value to determine where you are.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

So it's like, what's the gap between?

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, correct. Garmin ignores the variability data when you are active and exercising. So that's why it's important if you do want an accurate result to when you are exercising to record it. um, as an activity.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

So that it doesn't think that you're,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, that you're, yeah, yeah, yeah. exactly.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah, they are stress levels,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, stress levels calculated on a scale from zero to a hundred. So zero to 25 indicates low stress levels. 26 to 50 medium stress levels, 51 to 75 high stress and 76 to 100 represents extremely high stress. I guess the main drawback on the stress analysis is, that It obviously tells you when you're experiencing stress but doesn't tell you what is causing the

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

the fact

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

so I guess, again, just reiterating the fact that it's not a diagnostic measure but more just an indicator. And you have to actually do the correlation between what in your life

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Because the, Like, the other thing is, we use the word stress, which, I mean, medically it makes sense because they're indicating like, Something that is causing like stress on your body. But we, I think when we say the word stress, we think emotional stress. Whereas it can also be like excitement or like I, I don't know. I often feel like and I've think I've spoken about this before, but I often feel like my aura like rings summary at the end of the day, tells me I've had a really stressful day. even though I genuinely have not felt an emotion of stress. at any

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

I guess. yeah, like, Happiness and excitement would make your heart rate higher. Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

do. Yeah, that, like,

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah, like, I'm just so excited all the time. I'm not stressed.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah, it's almost

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

yeah, it is interesting. There's something about the label stress, that, I don't know, I wonder if there's like a, more palatable

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah, Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

as I was saying, when you get those reminders like a stressing tie at the moment, That kind of makes me more stressed because I'm like ah. In terms of body battery, the physiological stress levels influence the body battery charging and draining patterns. So the body battery is zero to a hundred. But it's either being drained or it's building. The body battery is similar to stress, but differs in the fact that it takes the stress goal plus combines it with data about movement and rest.

IMG_2892:

Okay. Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

So that's, that's probably a more holistic score. your body battery. Yeah. Yeah, I

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

but like other things to consider in relation to body battery, uh, illness, alcohol, and, residual stress can prevent you from fully, recharging overnight. So the, the thought is that by the time you wake up in the morning, you should be at a hundred and then over the course of the day, that will wane until you sleep again. Yeah.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

interesting. Okay, So it's normal for it to be like, lower at the end of the

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

Yeah. Um, and then getting back to the point of like, should we care about it? I think that the body battery, Will help to teach us better energy management in general.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

so I feel

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

and will help us adopt healthy habits. In the sense that if you have a measurement, then you know what you can improve kind of thing if you have that baseline. But I guess the main takeaway is to identify those trends. So if for a couple of weeks your score is consistently lower than you'd like, you can look for what's happening around you and ways to improve it. If you're in bed And you feel like you're looking, at your phone more, and then you look at your body battery and it's like not restoring. um, maybe you can

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Those

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

that you should Yeah. like, take that away. To relate it to training, the smartwatches can't really. measure how ready you are to train by the body battery. Cause it doesn't include all the external factors. Like if you have a headache or whatever, Or

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

you did a

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

you're super dehydrated, yeah, Yeah. body battery is not going to reflect that. So at the

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Or you're injured.

ZOOM0034_Tr4:

indicator Yeah, is to know that the way or to recognize how your own body feels.

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

Yeah. Interesting. Extremely interesting.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

So many good listening questions in. Um,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

but this was actually

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

so much to everyone who submitted, and we tried to answer most of them in the main data points we covered, although I think we're just going to need to do another, I don't even know how many episodes, to actually get to the bottom of the rest of these. But, this was actually a common question I wanted to know about the

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

to know about the Aura Ring, so, can you tell us, should I put it on my Christmas wishlist

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

I put it on my Christmas wishes,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

or should I leave it

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

not?

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

it's such a good question. Definitely worth saying that

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

We're not sponsored by Aura. So yeah, this is a totally unbiased review, although definitely come at me Aura if you like. No, so I started looking into getting an Aura ring About a year ago when I knew that I was struggling to listen to my body and I wanted to get better at understanding my recovery and my effort levels. And I looked at a bunch of different devices you can use, and for a number of reasons I end up going with Aura. I think for me a big part of it is convenience. Like the Aura Ring, it's very unobtrusive. I don't notice it. The battery lasts for ages. You just kind of put it on and forget about it versus some of the other like bands and things that Are a bit more in the way

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

You can wear it and it's not obnoxious at

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

It's not obnoxious I still think I was weird on me because I

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

bit

IMG_2892:

It's to

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

big fat gold ring I don't wear any jewelry normally, so I still feel like a little bit weird, but i'm

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

I love it. I actually just like it as a Jewelry piece. Yeah. Big chunky rink.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

Yeah, and so I, um, I ended up deciding not to get it because it was so expensive but then I got given it for a 30th birthday present. I will say, the first few months I actually found it really hard to engage with because I found it just like too much data and I didn't know how to interpret the different data, I didn't know what it means. It does require a fair bit of like learning and intentional kind of upskilling and watching and observing and looking at your own trends. I think some of the reasons I now really love it and, and value it. One is it's, um, cycle tracking abilities are amazing. I didn't even know that your cycle is very closely linked with quite small fluctuations in your body temperature, but using it tracks that closely. And so using that, it can give you a lot of information about Um, and then you've got your cycle, which I found super interesting. I've never had that level of insight or awareness before. Um, another thing it does really well is it looks at trends. It does a really good job of like not taking one piece of data in isolation, but looking at how different data points are trending and then being able to like, um, frame that up for you and give you really productive ways to respond to it. So it might be like, you're struggling to disengage, or like, you're too engaged before bedtime. So let's look at how we can give you strategies to be a bit calmer before you go to bed. Or like, things like that. Or it might say your, midpoint of your sleep has been later, which means you're like, you're chronotype, you're slightly out of sync with your chronotype. I don't know, things like that. Which I'm like, oh okay, cool, that's, yeah. Yeah,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

we were speaking about before with the gum and the, um, when it says relax reminder, it kind of like, heightens being more stressed. do you think for someone that reacts like that, do you think it could be to someone's detriment, knowing all this information? Or, does it kind of tell you in a way conducive to someone that might, like, have those emotions.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

I mean, definitely, if you're someone who can get obsessive about these sorts of things, I think that's always a risk. Like, look at something like Strava. It's, it's easy for people to become obsessive about that data and needing to hit certain things. I will say that Aura, the way that it communicates information is much more, I would say, cognizant of that. And it really frames things in a way that is, um, you know, conducive to taking things within its context. Um, and then I think it's really important to look at the impact of that. Um, versus it being like, Oh, you had, you know, I don't know, you know how in Strava, it's like you have like three days off running. It's like your fitness has reduced 15

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

yeah, yeah. Yeah,

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

it. Um, One of the things I, the features it has, which I haven't used yet, but after talking today's talk, I really want to, is it allows you to do experiments. So as we spoke about in the partnership discussion about PURE, I am going to say. Start trying to track the impact of magnesium on my sleep, but it allows you to tag basically any activity that you would do in your life and it does the analysis, the score analysis for you to tell you whether it has over time a significant impact on various different data points with, which I just think in a world where like all the health advice we have is so general, it is so useful to be able to get like your individual knowledge on like how you react to different things, whether that's like. alcohol or stress or food or whatever that is. And for you to be able to understand the impact that has. So, I mean, personally, I found it like super interesting and and, like largely very helpful.

IMG_2892:

of

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

I think it's going on my Christmas wish list. Really? Santa, if you're listening. He

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

is.

IMG_2892:

thing i'll say

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Oh, don't you worry, he is. Uh, no, when you've been chatting about that, I kind of keep coming back to the whole sort of saying of knowledge is. power. And in order to get the best out of yourself, you want to know these things. But Yeah, just as long as you don't get

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

Yeah, I also think, um, maybe a controversial take, but I think there's more of a space for men to be interested in this kind of data than women. Yeah. And I don't think women

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Sort of shy away from it, you're almost like a bit embarrassed that you care.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

you care. Yeah, I think so. What? I know, insane. But it is, I think it's like not that, unless you are like deep in like fitness running circles, in which case of course people noob out about it all the time, but I do think it's like,

IMG_2892:

impacting your

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

like, care about all this data. These are conversations that I think men have a lot more than women, and so I'm really keen to try and lean into that

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Yeah, yeah. I think we should do an episode of our most favorite running affiliated products And we can go through them, because I think that would be so interesting. I'm also really keen to hear what yours are.

IMG_2892:

worried

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

Yeah, oh, and there is so much more I could say about the Aura Ring as well. So yeah, my TLDR there,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

yeah, yeah, yeah,

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

like, get it if you're, if you're,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Don't read.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

pretty much. Get it if you're prepared to do the work to, really understand it and, like, look into it. But yet not get too obsessed with it. Um, and if you're willing to spend money on that as well. Um, otherwise, you know, your watch is going to give you a lot of interesting data as well.

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

amazing. Thank you so much for that insight.

IMG_2892:

I can't

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

That

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

quick little merch update before we go. We, got samples, luckily, last minute we decided to get some samples. And the designs are sick. They look so cool. But The colors, uh, it's like, we asked for lime, we got lemon.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

got lime. Yeah,

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Or opposite way around.

IMG_2892:

cool. Your sleep

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

slightly, actually quite.

IMG_2892:

Like take, take more of

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

off somehow. It's just been some sort of miscommunication there. Anyway, so that's why we do samples, so

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

That is why we

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

We're gonna, we'll still take photos of the samples and put them up online in the merch store when open so you guys know roughly what it looks like. The colors will look slightly different, the ones that you get are gonna look

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Yeah, they're gonna look, yeah, yeah, yeah. Same, same but different. We're super excited by it and we can't wait to get it out to you. Thank you as always, for listening to us chat. I love that episode. And yes, like subscribe, blah blah blah blah blah. No, Actually, please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on social media at Cheeky Run Club. I think that's it.

ZOOM0016_Tr3:

tiki. com. I think that's it.

ZOOM0016_Tr4:

Can't wait to be in your ears next Monday.

IMG_2892:

$10 a

DJI_20000105020340_0167_D:

Anna is so cute. I'm just putting Ted outside

ZOOM0034_Tr3:

because he's playing with the ball and it's a bit loud.