Cheeky Run Club

Protein for runners 101

• Phoebe Pincus and Anna Coldham • Season 4 • Episode 10

Share episode

Hello cheeky friends! 

This episode is all about protein for running. We speak to leading sports dietician and wonderful human Jess Rothwell to get an understanding of what protein actually is, how it helps us in our training, recovery and general life, what happens if you don’t get enough of it, how much you actually need, and the most common mistakes she sees amateur runners (including us!!) make when it comes to protein. We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did - thanks again Jess for all your help! 

We the debriefed about Anna's podium finish on the weekend and discussed the yearly dilemma of how to balance running with Christmas/holidays.

This episode is sponsored by Aid Station, one of the world’s leading sports nutrition websites. Use the code Cheeky10 to receive 10% off nutrition and hydration products!

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, Tiktok, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper. Logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Anna:

Run

Phoebe:

Run Club recognises that every day we live, work and run on Aboriginal land.

Anna:

land. This episode is brought to you by Aid Station, Australia's and New Zealand's leading online store for all things running nutrition. They pull together the world's best sports nutrition products under one website so you can spend less time stressing about your fuel and more time running.

Phoebe:

Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Anna.

IMG_3406:

Hello

Anna:

Phoebe.

Phoebe:

And hello listeners.

Anna:

week for the final recording of the year. Uh, we are diving into nutrition for runners specifically to talk about protein. We once again are lucky enough to be joined by the queen of running dietetics, Jess Roth, Jess, Jess Rothwell, to break down all things protein from the role it plays in both training and recovery, how much you need, how to know if you're getting enough, how to optimize timing around eating protein and common mistakes made by amateur runners.

Phoebe:

going to debrief from Anna's High Rocks adventures, dare I say, victory of a sort, um, over the weekend. And then we're going to have a discussion around How to decide if she'd have a break from running over Christmas.

Anna:

Mmm, interesting!

Phoebe:

But before we get into all of that, let us start by talking about unnotable runs of the week. Anna, I want to hear about your worst run of the week.

Anna:

run of the week. Tricky, because my worst run this week had to be this morning.

Phoebe:

of the time when we come in and record, that

Anna:

Most of the time when we come in and record, that run, due to recency bias, amongst other things is always the best run. Today was the worst run, that is because, never really got into the flow, ran for thirty minutes, and, and I knew that I was only running for thirty minutes, and it just,

Phoebe:

felt like, think it's definitely, there is definitely an effect where your shorter runs can feel longer almost, because each minute is like. A larger proportion of the run. Yeah, yeah.

IMG_3406:

Hmm.

Phoebe:

Come on.

Anna:

But maybe it's because you don't mentally prepare for it in the same way. So then when you start, you're like, Oh, 30 minutes is actually still a long time.

Phoebe:

Yeah, well you know what I, because I also intended to only do 30 minutes and I was trying to optimize sleep. I didn't eat before my run this

Anna:

I'm so

Phoebe:

long. Normally, even for 30 minutes, I always eat, but I was like, I'll just eat more after. And then I really missed it. Like I could, I think I'm so used to eating beforehand that my body was like, what are you doing? Where's my

Anna:

Where's the glycogen at?

Phoebe:

Yeah, yeah. Um,

Anna:

what was your worst run?

Phoebe:

worst run was my long run on the weekend, so

IMG_3406:

I've

Phoebe:

I've been a bit slack with my long runs. I haven't really been doing much. I've mostly just been doing more like an hour or so, even though I program for ages, it's been two hours. So I've been like, well boy, my program. And I had flagged this with my coach. I was like, Oh, I'm just not feeling the long runs. Like I'm not feeling no real reason, just not motivated enough

Anna:

to, to

Phoebe:

be smacking out long runs. I think in the aftermath of Berlin Marathon, I

Anna:

was just, just not

Phoebe:

just not feeling it. Um, and he was like, that's fine. Like do what you need to do, but like, it's a long way back with long runs. Like they're really hard to build back to.

Anna:

also do the

Phoebe:

Yeah. And, um, and turns out he was right. Shocking to no one. I tried to do, I tried to do an hour 45

IMG_2722:

45

Anna:

Mm.

Phoebe:

and, um, 90 minutes in I was like everything hurt. There's must be a specific strength, long run leg

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

of like endurance because after probably after 75 minutes my legs started getting so tired. By 90 minutes I was so tired and I was just like counting down the Ks to get back home and

Anna:

second I

Phoebe:

second I hit 20 Ks I was like

Anna:

stop. I'm done. Really? Yeah. Well, that is a little bit terrifying for someone who hasn't done a long run in five months. I just can't

Phoebe:

funny how time, like,

Anna:

you were so, yeah, it's funny how time, like quickly things can change. But then also on the flip side, you'll be able to, yeah, yeah.

Phoebe:

do it, yeah. Oh my

Anna:

Oh, my best run was Friday of last week. I ran with you and a few other friends and it was the first time in a long time. I did a little session. Um, I joined in for, I reckon like three or maybe two thirds of your session or something. I was a little, a little behind, but I, I was there in spirit. Um, And oh my gosh, it was so much fun. The run itself was so much fun. I think I said to you at the time, it's funny when you haven't done any sort of speed or you haven't done anything apart from jog for a while, and then when you do a little bit of a session, you feel like you're sprinting, even though you're not actually going that fast. Yeah. And it was just so nice. And then we had coffee after and it was the first time. Since like for so long that I just had that feeling that you get post session where you're sweaty, you're tired, and it's just so

Phoebe:

Yeah, you were like a kid in a candy

Anna:

candy store. I

Phoebe:

so excited when you're like, I'm actually going to do some of your session with you.

Anna:

do something special. Yeah. It was

Phoebe:

that really fun session that we spoke about on the

Anna:

on the

Phoebe:

week that um, 2k. two by 100, two by 200 strides 2k.

Anna:

2k. Yeah. It's

Phoebe:

It's just like a fun, different kind of session. I don't know about you, but I don't have any expectation around my 2k time. I would have no idea

Anna:

idea what

Phoebe:

pace I would do 2k in. that was very fun.

Anna:

the Hammy present yet? Hammy is good as gold. Wow. Our times have

Phoebe:

to change. That my hammy was going to

Anna:

that my hammy was going to be fine. I'd probably

Phoebe:

though

Anna:

Even though I was already crying.

Phoebe:

crying. Um, but yeah, I was

Anna:

but yeah, I was just like, so elated. It was

Phoebe:

really really nice. Oh,

Anna:

was your best run?

Phoebe:

Okay. I'm going to say my best run was Sunday morning. So Saturday night we went to Zadapek, um, which was super fun. Um,

Anna:

truck nights.

Phoebe:

actually just a beautiful night, like beautiful sunset, great atmosphere, incredibly exciting races. It was great. The highlight for me was watching my cousin Claudia race. Yeah, and she did so, so, so well and she and her mum, my auntie Shelly, were staying with me on Saturday night and then we went for a run Sunday morning and Joe came, my brother came and joined his first run, he's joined back with us for ages because he's had a bit of an injury and Sean came and we took them for like a loop around, Yarra Bend Park, which is like the, um, I was about to say National Park. What is it? It's just like Parklands near where I live, but that I just think is the nicest running in Melbourne. Like I love it there so much. And you know, when you're like showing people a place that's really

Anna:

like proud of it? Yeah.

Phoebe:

this is. And they, they were loving it. And it was just as same, similar to what I spoke up last week. Like it was just a run. It was just. Literally 30 minutes purely for the sake of like showing them around and like having a catch up and then we went for the nicest brunch afters just like

Anna:

afterwards. I did see that it looked very

Phoebe:

it was really wholesome and I was just like, God, how good is running?

Anna:

I know I saw, um, it was very nice to meet the infamous Claudia. Gosh, she's a great girl. Uh, yeah, that was so fun watching her. And then I saw she was wearing the cheeky t shirt when you guys were having brunch.

Phoebe:

yep. She got a special delivery straight from

Anna:

Yeah, it's

Phoebe:

so this week, as Anna said at the start, we are once again joined by Jess Rothwell, to talk this time all about protein.

Anna:

So Jess is an advanced sports dietitian, she's the national high performance nutrition lead for Athletics Australia, which basically means she works with athletes at the highest level, including our Paris Olympians. Olympians?

Phoebe:

yes. But she also does a lot of work with amateur athletes. mentioned last week, but I actually have gone and seen her before, back in the day, to get some advice about, um, how I was feeling myself, and found her just unbelievably helpful.

Anna:

Yeah. So some of you might be wondering why on earth we're talking about protein again because we did it in an episode last season.

Phoebe:

about protein too

Anna:

about protein too much. That's Um, but we realized that we only really just scratched the surface when we were chatting about it and we are obviously not experts in the field. So we thought we would hand it over to someone who you.

Phoebe:

is actually very

Anna:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

Phoebe:

exactly right. So we learned heaps and we hope that you do too.

Anna:

hope

Phoebe:

okay. We are back with Jess in the studio, my living room. Thank you. Great to have you. Great to have you back on the show. so to kick us off, before we get stuck into it, tell us what is your favorite source of protein?

Jess:

My favourite source of protein

DJI_20241210203649_0289_D:

hardest

Jess:

I'll

Phoebe:

hardest question of the lot.

Jess:

It is. I'm going to say seafood. And, uh, oysters. I love oysters. I mean, they're probably not the highest source of protein, but good source of zinc. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

what's yours, Anna? You are gonna say rocket Be banana. Smoothie.

Jess:

first and then I'll

Anna:

I have too many. Let's go to you first and then we'll come back to me. What's yours?

Phoebe:

Um,

Jess:

think, I don't think

Phoebe:

brutal. Yeah. Um, mine is probably.

DJI_20241210203649_0289_D:

know.

Jess:

functional thing.

Phoebe:

don't know.

Jess:

would say everything is pretty much cooked right

Phoebe:

don't, I don't eat meat, but maybe tofu. I like, no,

Jess:

ingredients.

DJI_20241210203649_0289_D:

is

Phoebe:

pretty, just okay. Tofu is like a functional thing for me. Like, I would say I'm really enjoying the, um, the high protein chocolate oat milk that I showed you today. No, but I've got the high protein one now. Um, I think that's delicious.

Anna:

I actually think maybe it's recent. Maybe it's just because you just said it, but I do really like seafood as well. But I also really like yogurt. Chobani. Oh, actually the new Paul's one. It's so nice. Yeah.

Phoebe:

interesting stuff. Well, um, we're going to start with the basics once again. Tell us, what is a protein?

Jess:

Okay, so similar to carbohydrate, it's one of our three macronutrients. And protein plays a role in the body where it's looking after our body's cellular repair, resynthesis,

Phoebe:

synthesis,

Jess:

it supports our hormone development and synthesis of our hormones, skin, nails, hair, as well as our muscle mass, of course, and, and bone strength as well and, and bone integrity. So, it really does help support our skeleton, both through bone, muscle and, and all of those different cells and hormones. And where

Phoebe:

where is protein typically found from a nutrition

Jess:

so as you mentioned, being vegetarian, so protein in plant based sources, can't forget. Things like your tofu, tempeh, legumes, lentils, As well as your soya based products, It's nuts and seeds, and we also find protein through eggs, chicken, turkey, lamb, beef, kangaroo, what else, and fish, seafood as well, and dairy obviously, which is a really great, great source as well. So the other thing I, um, was going to mention with protein before is often it does contain iron and zinc and B12, which is particularly important in terms of, yeah, health. immunity, and you know. and energy supply around the body. Yeah,

Phoebe:

like that? Yeah, so,

Jess:

um, typically animal based proteins will be more bioavailable to the body to the muscle cells. So essentially they're just soaked up a little bit more easily. Um, and may have even less total fiber depending on what that protein food is, which. can inhibit some other micronutrients. Um, so things like iron in that regard. so yeah, it's really based on, protein by availability, um, as well as often the amount of protein. So a serve of fish, meat, et cetera, will have more total protein than say a plant based option. Yeah.

Anna:

and then are all proteins created equally, or are some better for something like recovery, than others? And like, if so, what are the actual differences?

Jess:

Yeah, good question. So typically for recovery or re synthesis of tissue, we look at our branched chain amino acids, so our leucine, isoleucine, and valine. Um, so they'll,

Phoebe:

B, CAA? I see bbc, AA is on like my, one of my protein powders has like BCAAs, but I don't know what that means. Yeah,

Jess:

so branched chain amino acids and obviously all, proteins will have a number of different amino acids, which makes up their portfolio per se. And I guess from a recovery

Phoebe:

perspective, the animal based proteins

Jess:

or, or dairy for that example, with whey based protein is soaked up, um, better by

Phoebe:

muscle, but it doesn't mean that protein from plant based foods,

Jess:

won't be as great. It might just be a little bit more slow or, a vegetarian might need a higher total protein, or More of that food or supplementary sources to achieve.

Anna:

So they might need like a variety of different protein sources if they're

Phoebe:

Yeah, so,

Jess:

um, I think you might be getting to the there used to be, you need to have X and Y in combination to get

Anna:

Yeah, I remember reading about

Phoebe:

actually have spoken about that, on the

Anna:

is that a thing?

Jess:

Yeah. Uh, if, if somebody's consuming enough variety and enough total across the day, it's, yeah, it's, less of a thing now. Yeah, yeah.

Anna:

Mm, interesting.

Jess:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

so let's break down a little bit more about the role protein plays for runners both across like their general training and then recovery as well. Yeah,

Jess:

so protein for runners is obviously important in that muscle tissue repair, particularly if our training loads are increasing or we're starting a gym program to complement our running and keep us functionally strong. but it also plays a really important role in bone health and bone recovery post exercise too. So obviously if you think about running, it's a lot of load on our skeleton. and so it's important that we do get enough protein to help remodel that, that, that bony tissue as well. So,

Anna:

I often hear about how important protein is post training for recovery. Is it also important to have Before you train,

Jess:

Yeah, so depending on the, timing of the training session or run, I would suggest definitely as part of that recovery, macronutrient post exercise. Before exercise, we just go for those, those carbohydrate foods, nice and easy to digest because. Protein being a bit more of a complex, macronutrient will take a bit longer to break down. But yeah, definitely in the recovery period and then. through meals and or snacks across the day.

Anna:

day. The day, yep.

Phoebe:

What happens if you're not getting enough protein? So if you're

Jess:

not getting enough protein, because it does contribute to our total energy. It might mean that we are in that slightly suboptimal. state. energy availability state, or we might be at increased risk of injury or illness related to those protein foods and those other micronutrients they provide. Often a big one is people not including enough calcium rich foods, which we typically do find through protein sources, whether that's Fortified soy or almond or oat milks, as well as dairy or yogurts, cheese,

Phoebe:

things like that.

Jess:

So yeah, people can be at risk of other micronutrient deficiencies as well as not having those building blocks to help repair and help the tissue remodel and adapt to the training stimulus or stress. Particularly if someone's trying to rebuild strength, we want to make sure that, you know, if there is that anabolic stimulus that the nutrition environment is complementary to that training stress.

Anna:

and then what are the implications of that in the short, medium, long term?

Jess:

Yeah. Um, I guess niggles. So feeling like you're just not recovering as well as you could. or if there's been a training increase and there's inadequate protein or recovery,

Phoebe:

you just

Jess:

poor poor adaptation or increased risk of niggles or possibly immune function being.

Phoebe:

Um, I guess, yeah, in order to avoid that state where you're, you're not fueling yourself with enough protein, what are some good general guides or rule of thumbs that people can use to make sure they are getting enough?

Jess:

Yeah. Well, I think certainly in addition to your carbohydrates in that post exercise recovery window, Ensuring that you are popping a good protein based food there. so that could be things like your soy or milk, your dairy based yogurts, your smoothies. For people that might be quite time poor and need an option, it could be that protein powder That they might be using. Um, Eggs are obviously another good option, so high protein, you know, egg based pancakes, things like that. and then, if you can then think about, okay, what are my main meals across the day? So, obviously we've spoken about breakfast there, but having a protein food at lunch, at dinner, and then it might be as part of, like, a snack through the day. some people, too, depending on their energy needs, might often have, particularly runners, like a bowl of cereal with milk. You know, a supper before bed.

Phoebe:

Yum!

Jess:

Yeah, things like that. So often, and again, it's going to depend on the type of protein food, with respect to the amount and that people are eating. planting it in your breakfast, lunch, dinner, As part of that recovery and then, you know,

Phoebe:

you know, for a snack

Jess:

or two across the day.

Anna:

Yeah. And is there, I remember you saying, talking about the sort of guideline of, six to eight

Phoebe:

grams Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anna:

carbohydrates. Like what is the equivalent, for protein or,

Phoebe:

and is that sort of generalised across the

Anna:

whole day

Phoebe:

or

Anna:

should it be more concentrated towards like Um, at the few hours post

Phoebe:

training session.

Jess:

Yeah, minimum for, like, depending, I guess, on the guidelines you're looking at, but for, endurance

Phoebe:

I think,

Jess:

6 gram per kilogram as a minimum But for, some of our endurance, like, elite athletes, they'd be easily 2. 5. and

Phoebe:

Really? That

Jess:

in enough calories, they'd probably be up

Phoebe:

to three,

Jess:

like based on some analysis. and you know, these people are hitting

Phoebe:

4,

Jess:

like 4, 000 calories a day. So Some bodies just absorb and absorb and absorb and process. And if you think about even a non runner, like a rowing athlete, they're going to consume so

Anna:

so much.

Jess:

yeah. so in terms of the immediate kind of recovery window, that kind of anabolic stimulus window is thought to be a bit longer than just your half an hour to an hour. So your body still will use it. but if it's like a bigger source of protein, it'll just be. most likely over an extended period of time that it uses that. So, um, normally we would recommend 0. 3 to 0. 4 gram per kilogram of protein in that immediate recovery window. and I would encourage athletes and, and our rec runners to get it in because it's opportunity to eat. So if people aren't prioritising it, then we, we might miss that total recovery period, even though it has been. a bit extended.

Anna:

What happens if you're getting too much, or just like post? Yeah. It could be, so if it means that you're not getting any of these benefits

Jess:

It could be. So if it means that you're not getting in your

Anna:

is satiating,

Jess:

that glycogen, um, the other thing, protein will be more satiating. So it'll keep people a little bit more full for longer. So that might um, minimize appetite a little bit more. and somebody doesn't get as much as what they might require. without recognizing those. hunger cues so I guess it's probably more about the displacement of other key macronutrients and having a greater contribution of protein compared to carbs and fats because typically if we think about endurance athletes and our runners from a macronutrient? position, We look around 60 percent dietary energy from carbs, 15 to 20 percent from protein and 20 to 25 percent from from fat. And we don't always, you know, like, it's not rigid as such, but

Phoebe:

we do look at it.

Jess:

That's kind of where we get energy from carbs and fat and protein helps support the rest of, you know, the functions through the body.

Phoebe:

I cannot believe people are eating 2. 5 to 3 grams of protein. That is just, they must have a lot of protein shakes, or Ah,

Jess:

I think it's, no, not necessarily. Like, some of these athletes aren't even using protein powders. yeah, when, because if you think about, you know, a, like a, No, it won't be a steak for you, but,

Anna:

if somebody's

Jess:

um,

Phoebe:

vegan steak perhaps.

Jess:

steak. typically, you know, as if somebody is having two, 250 gram piece of meat or fish, you know, you're easily going to get 50 to 60 grams.

Anna:

Yeah, well I'm just thinking even in my breakfast I would probably have like 45 grams. Because I have a full protein shake worth, which is about 30. And then also at least one serving of like the yogurt.

Phoebe:

God,

Jess:

so it, it actually.

Anna:

much?

Phoebe:

No, is it too much?

Jess:

And you get protein through through your grains too, so it's not just those obvious protein foods. So pasta will have more protein than rice, for

Phoebe:

Yeah. And one of the things we were talking about before, off air, is how there's a lot of protein being marketed these days. Like every product might have like high protein versions. There's also protein bars everywhere. Everyone's having protein, shakes. Is it any different consuming protein from something like a protein bar than like a steak or a piece of meat?

Jess:

So it'll often be the quality or the type and respective amount of protein. So in a lot of more of our, I guess, supermarket products, the commercial products that are available, it's often soy protein isolate that you might see in the ingredient panel, Um, that they use to increase the protein content per serve as, as you guys have recognized. So I guess it's about one, you know, the quality of that protein versus having a whole piece of food of another, you know whether that's animal or plant based and the other micronutrients that that food provides.

Phoebe:

Does that make sense? So that's B12, your iron,

Jess:

zinc, folate,

Phoebe:

You need to think

Anna:

you might be getting specifically the protein, but not all of the other, like,

Jess:

Yeah. yeah, depending on fortification.

Phoebe:

You realize we're now going to need to get you back on to talk about zinc, iron, B12, folate, everything

Jess:

forgot calcium, as well.

Phoebe:

everything you said, I've

Anna:

you in for the

Phoebe:

I don't know anything about those things.

Anna:

and what, what is your opinion on protein powders?

Jess:

so I think like a lot of supplements, they, They'll serve a purpose potentially depending on who we're working with, the goals around their nutrition, if it's supporting rehab, recovery, convenience. But quite often for, for a recreational athlete, they they should, if they're eating enough, and it. you know, pretty organized, get enough protein through whole foods. I guess if there's a planned, I don't know, strength development phase, that's where some whey protein could be beneficial, or if somebody's intentionally trying to increase muscle strength or bulk, we might look at using more whey protein to support that. and or if someone's got really high energy needs and it's just another convenient option. So Often where it can be useful is for athletes that are traveling, that are busy. But I guess we've got to be, it's important to recognize we want to ensure there's other nutrient rich foods through the day that offer those other micronutrients that you that you achieve through whole

Phoebe:

the whole food, yeah.

Jess:

Yeah. In saying that, some protein supplements are fortified, but some will also contain things like creatine and other, other things. So.

Phoebe:

I find it really tricky. I find it really difficult to navigate as I don't know. But like there's, that feels like there's a lot of knowledge required to make some good decisions in these spaces. Like even a protein powder. I have, one of the ones I have is only 10 grams of protein per serve or something compared to some that are 30 grams, which like, which I'm not using anymore very much, but, but.

Jess:

It just

Phoebe:

It just feels like the required level of not, I mean, it feels really high. Like maybe we're,

Jess:

need to

Phoebe:

We need to simplify it a little bit more, like maybe we're overthinking it a bit but, because that was so interesting what you said before about like most people should be able to get it all from their protein requirements from natural sources like I thought that I now have to be having like protein shakes, protein bars, like all these different things just to hit my,

Jess:

and it will be, you know, dependent, you know,

Phoebe:

on different dietary intakes and patterns, you know, whether

Jess:

it's a vegan, athlete, or vegetarian, or or an athlete that does, eat those animal protein foods. So, yeah, I think it's related to dietary lifestyles, choices, preferences, convenience, possibly, organization, travel. and there are some protein powders that have a blend of carbohydrates. if somebody is looking at that immediate recovery option. with An athlete recently wanting to support their recovery. there's some good ones out there that will serve that dual purpose.

Phoebe:

seen those actually to have like the ratio of carbs

Jess:

Yeah, they've got some awful names. Yeah. Hard mask, gainer,

Anna:

can you, um, give us. in addition to brands, I'd probably suggest most people look

Jess:

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Like,

Anna:

a protein

Jess:

Yeah, so in addition to brands, I'd probably suggest most people look out for a protein that's providing 20 to 30 grams. per serve or you could if you do consume, you know, cow's milk or soy milk, you'd mix half and add the milk with that and make up that 20 to 30 grams.

Anna:

Yep.

Jess:

So if we go back to that 0. 3 to 0. 4 gram per kilogram, kind of um, thought. but I guess in terms of brands working in high performance, we typically always recommend a third party batch tested product. So there's, you know, low to no risk of cross contamination of something that's, prohibited. But, to name a few, there's obviously true protein pure, do one that's pretty good. SIS Rego rapid recovery as a plant based option with some added carbohydrates and that could be, could be a good option.

Phoebe:

good option. Um,

Jess:

so yeah, you're right. There are so many out there, but yeah, I think. When I look at protein powders, there can be, I guess, a few more additives and things like that. So I think a shorter ingredient list where possible, is probably more beneficial. and or depending on who we work with, if there is some fortification of other micronutrients that could be helpful. Yeah. Is

Phoebe:

Can you tell us about, common mistakes or knowledge gaps that you see in the protein space, particularly for amateur runners? I think possibly an overuse in some situations or

Jess:

through increased training feeling like you have to have a protein based supplement, or the use of branched chain amino acids like as its own isolated supplement. typically if, particularly if they're non plant based, their dietary intake, they just don't need it. And the evidence is really, really weak around that. So

Phoebe:

yeah,

Jess:

if anybody's interested to look into more of the supplement evidence base, I'd definitely encourage you to head to the AIS Supplement Framework. And that's where it lists group A, B, C, D supplements based on the evidence that's available to

Phoebe:

Wow.

Anna:

them.

Jess:

a look at magnesium.

Anna:

looked into that

Phoebe:

Are they publicly available? Yeah. Wow. Oh,

Jess:

I can send you

Anna:

Yeah,

Jess:

And there's a female athlete health one. Yes,

Phoebe:

we'll put them in our show notes, I think. Yeah, that would be That's where you'll get,

Jess:

yeah, you're you're

Phoebe:

up

Jess:

up to date sports nutrition information

Phoebe:

Yes, because, yeah, to speak to what we were talking about before about how, um, opaque it can all be to people who aren't experts. Like I feel like having something to lean on in terms of being able to sense, check is this worthwhile or not?

Jess:

Yeah, totally. And there's so much information out there,

Phoebe:

So do you think it's more, that you might not be able to answer this question, do you think it's more common to see people, amateur runners, who aren't getting enough carbs or aren't getting enough protein? Carbs, definitely. Wow, that is so interesting.

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

See, that's so

Jess:

normal for

Phoebe:

Yeah, that, close my

Jess:

I'm surprised for you.

Phoebe:

I feel like, yeah. I'm like, carbs seems so simple to me, I'm like, just eat bread. Yeah.

Jess:

like just

Anna:

me,

Jess:

mean, some But I think for people that are active, there's, the thing that comes firstly to their minds is

Anna:

that

Phoebe:

I wanted to know,

Anna:

on the go snacks, things that are like really convenient to whip up at home,

Jess:

Yeah.

Anna:

are high in protein,

Jess:

Zucchini slice? Do you like?

Phoebe:

Oh yeah, What's in the, is that high protein? Yeah. Yum. It's

Jess:

Yeah,

Phoebe:

good source of protein. Eggs, true. It's a good source

Jess:

eggs. You might have some cheese, some milk in that.

Phoebe:

a little bit of flour. You could put chia seeds in it. Um, yeah.

Jess:

Bacon, if you like a or you could actually put even salmon or tuna if it's more of a frittata. fetta. if you're doing savory muffins or your zucchini slice or frittata as a snack option or or mini muffins There are different recipes that um use More eggs or that might use a protein powder in like a baked recipe like a banana bread or I've Got a high protein banana pancake recipe that came from one of the W. A. C. E. dieticians, Emily. Credit her. But yeah, it's a really easy one, good to use.

Anna:

Can, can we have?

Phoebe:

I

Jess:

yeah, I can share that one as well. It's so simple and delicious. so they can be

Phoebe:

snack options

Jess:

or, you know, whether it's even some tuna or sardines on, on toast as a quick and easy

Phoebe:

or

Jess:

in a, um, English muffin, for

Anna:

muffin

Jess:

cheese toasty, baked beans on toast, something like that. And then in terms of those convenient options that we can buy, that's where your yogurts, you know, cheese and cracker packets, you know, your nuts and seeds. There are some higher protein bars out there

Phoebe:

Yeah,

Jess:

your flavoured milks. so there's quite, quite a bit. a Couple boiled eggs, even if

Phoebe:

Mm-hmm

Jess:

yeah. Some people might, you know, some people do have jerky as an option.

Anna:

Yeah. I actually have seen that think even aid station, which Oh

Jess:

Oh yes,

Anna:

They had like beef jerk jerky for sale or

Jess:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

that hike in the U. S. last year, one of the guys I met had made his own, tofu jerky.

Jess:

gym. And

Phoebe:

Yeah, and it was like, teriyaki tofu that he'd, dried out basically, and it was really good. It was really tasty, yeah. So he'd obviously had to do it all himself, but I would love it if someone could make that. Because I was actually really starting

Anna:

choose. Yeah. And it

Phoebe:

And it was super high protein. Yeah. Yeah,

Jess:

something

Anna:

yeah, yeah, I love boiled eggs. Although I get a bit funny, like, I never know. You know if you go to, like, a supermarket or something,

Phoebe:

they like oh, a new cafe,

Anna:

they'll have boiled eggs just

Phoebe:

in a pot. Oh, yeah. Oh, Yeah, That's not it, surely. yeah. I'm skeptical about those. Um, thank you so much for joining us once again to educate our listeners about everything protein. hopefully everyone listening feels a lot more equipped to manage their protein needs. And yeah, just thanks for being so generous with all your time and knowledge and sharing.

Jess:

a pleasure guys. Thanks for having me. It was good fun.

Anna:

Pleasure. We'll get you on next year to chat about iron, folate,

Jess:

about my colleagues. Bye.

Phoebe:

This episode of Cheeky Run Club is sponsored by Aid Station, Australian New Zealand's leading online store for all things running nutrition.

Anna:

We

Phoebe:

spoke last week about some of our favorite products. We're going to talk a little bit more about what we've just realized is a joint favorite product of ours

Anna:

Which we've been loving in the hot weather.

Phoebe:

we have been. So we both, did an order a few weeks ago and trialed a whole bunch of new things. And one of the things we trialed was Sodi, S O D I I, which are everyday hydration salts. You add them to your water and then you drink them. And they're super high in sodium, potassium and magnesium. Yeah,

Anna:

Yeah, and they come in a couple of different flavours,

Phoebe:

like, they're all really nice. They taste like, they're very salty. Like, that doesn't, like, they're like a salty drink but not in a bad

Anna:

No, I kind of love it. Yeah. It's almost, it's kind of strange because they're a little bit salty, but then you're also getting the drink. So it's kind of making you thirsty, but also satisfying your thirst at the same time. I

Phoebe:

reckon you could have them with like, soda water. I'm quite

Anna:

interested in that. I'll be rolling with

Phoebe:

tip is to have them icy

Anna:

have them icy cold. With ice,

Phoebe:

Yeah, I think I did do one room temperature water and it was not it. but it's been a, it's been delicious.

Anna:

a quick little spiel about aid

Phoebe:

PFUN facts. Yes. They are athlete owned and operated so they understand the role that good nutrition plays in peak performance.

Anna:

They stock over a thousand products from over 80 brands including energy gels, chews, hydration, running socks, hats and recovery products. Anything really that aids your performance.

Phoebe:

Basically, they've done all the hard work for you, so you don't have to

Anna:

Check them out at aidstation. com. au and use the code Cheeky10 to receive 10 percent off nutrition and hydration. Thanks so much to AidStation for bringing this episode of Cheeky to life.

Phoebe:

All right. So let's talk about the big event, the big dance on the

Anna:

Some may say the biggest event on the 2024 calendar. I,

Phoebe:

Some might definitely

Anna:

say that. Um,

Phoebe:

we spoke last week about how you were competing in high rocks. Competing. Competing. You'd been training undercover for a while now. pretending

Anna:

up. Pretending to be injured with our hats on.

Phoebe:

hammy tendinopathy, but actually just using it as used to, you know, Get deep

Anna:

Instead, just turning into a hybrid

Phoebe:

yeah, yeah, exactly. And actually last week you prematurely called yourself a hybrid athlete. And I said, wait, wait. And

Anna:

now officially I can call

Phoebe:

Ooh,

Anna:

a hybrid athlete.

Phoebe:

Great. Um, no. So how was

Anna:

It was so much fun. So it was held in the Melbourne convention center, which is essentially just like this huge hall. And. At first you, you walked in there and it was so overstimulating. There was so much loud music, just like someone over the megaphone commentating. And I was like, Whoa, this is a lot. And everyone was just running around. I had no idea what was going on. It was like, kind of overwhelming. but then we kind of like sussed out, we got there super early, which was good. We kind of sussed out the different, um, I don't even know, legs or apparatus exercises stations. Yeah. And then you could see where people like could go and watch. We had like a really big cheer squad, which was so nice. That was actually one of the things that made it really fun. Cause I feel like we were all a bit,

Phoebe:

unsure of

Anna:

what we were doing, but then every lap, because it's like a small, um, environment, our friends could literally go from point to point. And so see us multiple times across the one leg and at the stations, because for instance, the first one that I did was the ski erg and you're obviously just stationary. On the skier and they're just five meters away from me yelling the whole time. It was so funny. Um, yeah, it was so nice, but yeah, we had so much fun. We had a last minute, I think I was speaking about the legs last week and,

Phoebe:

That's right, you predicted that you'd get Skiag and

Anna:

row. Well, that's what I wanted. Like, yeah, yeah. So I,

Phoebe:

of the episode, you check your phone and you're like, Oh my god, they've given me burpees and

Anna:

Yeah, I was doing burpees and the sled push or something. I was like, no! we had a last minute shift and I was on the ski erg. I did the ski erg and I did the burpee broad jumps, which is

Phoebe:

looked so hard.

Anna:

Yeah, it was funny, you know, how you have an idea sometimes of what you look like when you're doing something. I had this idea when I was doing the burpees. So you do a burpee and then you do a jump forward and you have to do that for 80 meters. So I guess the only way that you're like getting forward is actually the like jump itself. And then you just do the burpee each time. But I had this vision of me doing burpees. Doing it and looking like

Phoebe:

pro. Pretty

Anna:

just, or like just looking like someone who could do burpees anyway. And then I saw the video that one of my friends took and it looks like I'm doing the worm.

Phoebe:

like I'm doing the

Anna:

I saw it on Monday, the day after

Phoebe:

just like

Anna:

I was collapsing, but it'd be sort of like head, chest,

Phoebe:

then I just go

Anna:

the same way. And I was watching it on Monday thing here. Oh, makes so much. I can't sense why my neck is sore today.

Phoebe:

and I was

Anna:

worming for 80 meters.

Phoebe:

of sense. When

Anna:

that Izzy

Phoebe:

was getting tired, and I'm forward,

Anna:

stumble. Yeah, because I would, when I was getting tired, you'd do the burpee and then I'd jump forward and then, cause I'd be a bit dizzier and then they wouldn't hold me. I was like, whoa. but it was so much fun. Shout out to one of my teammates, Carly, who was enjoying it so much. She actually ran an extra lap than she had

Phoebe:

through. So how did this happen?

Anna:

happen? So it was.

Phoebe:

if

Anna:

it's, if you know, I mean, like, if you know what you're doing, it's easy, but it's not super clear for someone who hasn't done it. Before, like, you know what the exercises are, but it's not as though they give you a race briefing or anything beforehand. No. So you kind of just expected to know where you're meant to go and that kind of thing. Anyway. She was on the second leg and so pretty much you had to. You run around a full lap once and then you went to your exercise and then you completed the rest of the lap. Anyway, we saw her run around the first time and we're like, Woo! Go Carly! And then a few minutes later she comes around again.

Phoebe:

she comes around again.

Anna:

all of a sudden we're like, Woo!

Phoebe:

Woo! What are you

Anna:

wait, what are you doing?

IMG_3406:

is early

Anna:

the poor

Phoebe:

So this was early on.

Anna:

This is early on,

Phoebe:

were out of the race at this stage?

Anna:

Uh, I mean, I don't know if we, it was, it was hard to know where you're coming because there were so many people doing it at the same time, but people started in different ways. Yeah. You never really knew, like the first leg, which was my leg. Cause you could see, like, I could, I knew who I started with. I could tell.

Phoebe:

How did you go compared to the people around you?

Anna:

Um, okay. Yeah, I, I, it was funny. I did all right in the running and then on the ski, I got this moment where I was doing it as fast as I could. My technique. It would be so bad, but I was literally doing it as fast as I could. And I was looking at the lady next to me and she, her cadence was quite a bit. But I could see I was glancing over at her

Phoebe:

her screen,

Anna:

and she was, cause it says like whatever minutes per 500 meters, like what pace you're going. And she was going 15 seconds per 500 meters faster, but I was doing it so fast

Phoebe:

and she

Anna:

been doing it

Phoebe:

Just like pulling on it really hard. Yeah, but then I

Anna:

Yeah, but then I was like, I can't pull any harder. So I don't really get how it works. Anyway, something to think about next year.

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

But yeah, I was pretty, it was pretty funny. And then I heard one of like her cheer squad. I was like, oh, that's a bit rude. Was like, you got her, you got her.

Phoebe:

Really? That would have rammed you

Anna:

Yeah, and then I kind of got a bit competitive. So then on the second run, I was like, I got you. Nah. Um, it was pretty funny. I just felt so bad for Carly, because it would have been

Phoebe:

that's extra work.

IMG_3406:

Extra work.

Phoebe:

And so Yeah, we actually ended

Anna:

Yeah, we actually ended up coming third. So, as

Phoebe:

listeners that

Anna:

as promised to the listeners when we're on the podium, I did show my

Phoebe:

Little photo of me

Anna:

Little photo, yeah, of me showing my guns. I'm sure everyone would be super excited But no, it was really fun. It was really nice doing something that is just, is like way out of your comfort zone. You have absolutely no expectations and you are purely just there to have a little bit of fun. I also really liked the team aspect.

Phoebe:

also really like the team aspect. Oh, not at

Anna:

Oh, not too. Yeah. We were leaving and then someone had looked up the results on their phone. They're like, Oh, we came third. So then we like went back in

Phoebe:

we came third.

Anna:

yeah, there was a little presentation.

Phoebe:

went back in. Oh, I love being

Anna:

it actually was so much fun. I, yeah,

Phoebe:

You would generally do it

Anna:

I would a hundred percent do it again for anyone that's like tossing it up. I, yeah, I would

Phoebe:

Give it a go.

Anna:

It's also, it's pretty fun. It's pretty fun. People watching. There are a lot of very fit, very dedicated people there. And it's just a completely different world to like the running scene. So it's interesting. Yeah.

Phoebe:

fit or dedicated on the running

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Everyone's just

Anna:

Everyone's just so easy

Phoebe:

So chill, runners are just chill. Nah.

IMG_2722:

To

Anna:

To, uh, top things off, oh, no, not to top things off, to round things out. We thought that we would have a little discussion about running over the holiday period.

Phoebe:

Yeah, we were, we were, I mean, we like in the podcast to try and talk about things that we are actually discussing in our life and with our running friends and something that has been coming up a little bit recently, a few common themes. One being everyone's bloody exhausted. Everyone is sick or tired. I'm just like. I, I mean, I'm always excited for

Anna:

been so I've

Phoebe:

I have never been so

Anna:

I'm just, just ready for a break. So then, talking about

Phoebe:

I've been just sick. Yeah. And I'm just, just ready for a break. So we're talking about that. And then also just talking about, um, Christmas and holidays are really tricky time for running, like.

Anna:

You,

Phoebe:

Your routine's sort of gone, and how much, you're often in a different environment, so how much should you be pushing through? And at what stage do you just say, you know what, I'm gonna have some time off? Yeah.

Anna:

Yeah, yeah, I'm having some time off work, I'm gonna have.

Phoebe:

to hope. Yeah. Cause I find it really hard. Like I was saying, I went and saw a doctor on Monday cause I've had this cough or virus for over three weeks now. And he was sort of saying like, Hey, I think you've got like either like a post viral cough that's just going to be around for a while or some other cough that's going around in Melbourne and there's like nothing you can really do and it's not really dangerous to run. And so I was like, okay.

IMG_3406:

so I was like,

Phoebe:

Probably fine to, like,

Anna:

keep running. Yeah. I just feel

Phoebe:

kind of

Anna:

Yeah. I'm not sleeping well because I'm coughing so much. Mm. Um, so I

Phoebe:

so I just find it hard to know when do you just say, enough's enough.

Anna:

Yeah, I think it, I mean, I feel like it's completely like individualized, but I reckon that like in this past, when I've been trying to run quite a lot, then I like over Christmas have struggled or not really known if I should push it or, you know, it's Christmas day, you're spending time with family. Do you kind of go out for a run and maybe miss something else? And I think it's a really great time to purely just Do whatever it's almost like Be a little intuitive, be like, if you want to go for a run, then go for a run. But I don't think it's a really nice time to like, take the pressure off or like, just take your foot off the accelerator a little bit and just see what you feel like doing. And if you do feel like doing a session and everything, then like, awesome, definitely go do that. But if you don't, then that's okay too. Cause I feel like. It's not just a, it's not just a break from work and everything. Like you want to actually de stress. And I feel like in order to do that, you kind of have to just relax a little bit with, in all facets of

Phoebe:

Yeah, that's a great framing.'cause I feel like the fear is often like, oh, well I'll lose fitness and then I

Anna:

back down. But

Phoebe:

But that's sort of missing the point.

Anna:

yeah.

IMG_2722:

all.

Phoebe:

It's like who

Anna:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But then some years I've been like, all I've wanted to do across when I'm not working as much is run and everything. And that's also completely fine. But I feel like in your case, I don't know, would you have a, would you have like 10 days just completely off?

Phoebe:

completely off? Well, Hmm. I think I'd be more likely to say like a few weeks where I just did whatever I felt like, and just do like jogs with family, like go for some swims, I do think I, it's a good chance to listen to my body and have a little break. and I do think we've spoken about how to identify when you're in a bit of a running hole. And like, I don't feel terrible in my running by any means. I have actually been feeling quite good, but I think with this sickness, it's kind of just accumulated to a level of fatigue where like, it does feel really hard at the moment. My heart rate started to get higher and

Anna:

higher. Yeah, yeah. Don't push it. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think

Phoebe:

Don't push it.

IMG_3406:

Don't push it. Otherwise we'll sort of like get back to pre

Phoebe:

Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah, maybe I'll try and like mentally be like, okay, while I'm off work, a couple of weeks, just run what feels good and wait, let my body like get back to feeling really good. And then pick it back up

Anna:

I reckon it

Phoebe:

the other side.

Anna:

what you should do.

Phoebe:

I want to come back from the break feeling really

Anna:

Yeah, and even though it might be hard to begin with, you're not gonna, realistically, you're not gonna come back feeling refreshed if you keep kind

Phoebe:

Not if I run, hit every session in my program. Um, I don't think so. No. Yeah. Yeah. I

Anna:

that I know anything, but I don't think

Phoebe:

Oh, this is the thing. I'm like, no one really knows anything. Cause the doctor was saying it was fine to do sessions, but I'm like, do you, sorry, I of course trust medical professionals, but, um,

Anna:

Disclaimer.

Phoebe:

how do you know that it's fine to be into a session? Like maybe it's not dangerous.

Anna:

Yeah, but you haven't seen, yeah.

Phoebe:

increase my risk of injury or just like, also, yeah. Also it's also to point, it's like, what's the point. It's like, if I'm not feeling good, I'm not recovering well.

Anna:

and you're not enjoying it i also think that if you're having trouble sleeping then you're obviously not recovering and that's

Phoebe:

that's the thing, having a cough is so disruptive

Anna:

yeah yeah Um, so yes, I, I would just do, I would go with the flow. I think it's a really, I don't know if this is, I mean, it's different if you've sort of got a race in mid January or something, but I feel like it should be more normalized if people are on a running program to just have a 10 day break or something and just, you just do whatever you feel.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yep. I love

Anna:

So, for the last time of 2024, Like, subscribe, follow us. No, just kidding. Kinda.

Phoebe:

I do

Anna:

But if you do want to support the show, um, no, thank you so much to everyone for listening and for also being very patient with us as we navigate the first year of doing our little podcast. I just feel like I'm so proud and very grateful for the little community that we are building. So thank you all for coming along for the cheeky

Phoebe:

That's right, and probably early next year we'll do, we'll do a bit of reflecting. On how this year's gone, some lessons that we've learned both on the running front and then also on the cheeky community front. And then next year we are going to have a first birthday party. Yeah, so our first birthday is I think technically like the 22nd or 23rd of Jan. So we'll do something like late Jan, early Feb. We need to book in the exact date. Um, but get excited.

Anna:

Yes, very exciting. Um, alright, I think that's it.

Phoebe:

We can't wait to be in your ears.

Anna:

Next year! Next year! Bye! Bye!

Phoebe:

So, sorry, just in case you're wondering, that's my boyfriend, it's not a rabbit. He's

Jess:

guest appearance.

Anna:

we're just like, so unphased by just a random man walking through.

Phoebe:

to disturb us, so he's gone around the outside. Oh, it's so nice.