Cheeky Run Club

A deep dive into the track experience

• Anna Coldham

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Hello Cheeky friends!

Today we’re taking you through track nights – what they are, if they’re accessible to amateur runners, and if so, how you can get involved. Phoebe also reflects on how her own track night went last week, racing in the 5km event. 

You should also definitely stick around to the end of the episode, where we reminisce about our International Women’s Day run last weekend in collaboration with Nike, sponsored by Ultra Violette.

A Cheeky gift:

Use our Ultra Violette discount code ‘CHEEKY15’ on their website

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, Tiktok, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper. Logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

anna audio:

Cheeky Run Club recognises the everyday we live, work and run on Aboriginal land.

phoebe audio:

Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello Anna.

anna audio:

Hello Phoebe.

phoebe audio:

And hello listeners.

anna audio:

Today, we're going to talk about track races for amateurs. What are they? Why does nobody really do them? And then why people should, but also how they could be changed to be made a little bit more accessible. We are also, I'm very excited for this because you have been holding out and not telling me. We're going to race debrief because Phoebe did a 5k track race last night and we want to know how the hell it went.

phoebe audio:

We will talk through that and then we're also going to add in, so we haven't yet had our cheeky run in Sydney. That is tomorrow morning. We're recording on Friday, but we are going to record a little bit of audio just to debrief post the event and we will pop that in at the end. But first, we'll kick off as always with our notable runs of the week. Anna. I want to hear about your best run last week, because I know you haven't got a worst yet.

anna audio:

My best run is the same run as it was last week. It was the Saturday. Just gone. Well, not just gone. Six days ago. Now I'm already missing it. I went for a big 17 kilometer run and it's the furthest I've gone since July.

phoebe audio:

Yeah, by quite a bit. Like, what would have been the

anna audio:

Well, I, I did when my hamstring was getting better and pre having to stop for hormonal reasons. I did get up to 15 Ks. Yep. Yep. but it was honestly so good. We, I ran with you, run with, your lovely partner, Sean, Joe, your brother, a couple of girlfriends. We ran along the river, into the park, that you have to be running for a little bit to actually get into

phoebe audio:

from where we usually

anna audio:

yeah, yeah, and it made me realize how nice it was to not run within a five kilometer

phoebe audio:

Yes. Of

anna audio:

our cafes that we normally meet at, because I have been only going like three routes because in 6Ks you can't really get that far.

phoebe audio:

far.

anna audio:

It was so nice. I felt really good the whole

phoebe audio:

I was

anna audio:

loving life.

phoebe audio:

it get hard at any point,

anna audio:

Not really, no. Yeah, too happy. I just wanted to keep going.

phoebe audio:

did?

anna audio:

We were doing grass laps at the end. Just to extend it a little bit. And I was like, anyone else?

phoebe audio:

Did

anna audio:

run.

phoebe audio:

you feel, like,, tired afterwards?

anna audio:

Well, we might talk about that in my worst run.

phoebe audio:

Oh, okay. Oh no.

anna audio:

What, what is your best?

phoebe audio:

Well, I actually think that run was probably my best run. I had so much fun. However, I'll talk about a different run just to mix it up for the listeners. I would say my best run was the Sunday run, which you also did. which now I'm

anna audio:

my best

phoebe audio:

run.

anna audio:

But we, we backed it

phoebe audio:

He backed it up on Sunday with just a little kind of half hour run, with you and our friend Ant. Yeah. And we did, decided to do trails and Ted, how could I forget, and Ted came. And it was a drizzly Sunday morning we didn't really have a route in mind. I feel like there were a few times where we were like, let's go this way, let's go this way.

anna audio:

And

phoebe audio:

It just felt like, you're so far out of the city. Yeah. And it felt like a little mini holiday,

anna audio:

makes you feel like you're on holidays a little bit because you're just, so far removed even though it's really not that far away.

phoebe audio:

And then just such a nice Sunday run you don't have to rush off to work or anything. It was lovely.

anna audio:

It was very nice. And there was actually a couple times where you said, oh, you might have to carry Ted over this bit of the run. And then we got there and he was just like, boing.

phoebe audio:

because there are parts where there's like a plank that you need to walk across or just tricky parts where there's like a

anna audio:

like the footing is a bit

phoebe audio:

And Ted, I mean, he was so much more confident than

anna audio:

me. Yeah, I know. He didn't

phoebe audio:

even use the plank, he somehow ran up the wall or something. I don't know what he did to

anna audio:

he did. We were the ones that needed

phoebe audio:

Yeah, no,

anna audio:

I was

phoebe audio:

very impressed. Ted did really well. I think he really liked the trails.

anna audio:

I think he loved it. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, that

phoebe audio:

Yeah, it

anna audio:

odd.

phoebe audio:

a bit embarrassing for him really and I ran past the poodle. The poodle had an owner there as well. It wasn't just a poodle in the bush.

anna audio:

Wild poodle.

phoebe audio:

poodle of his. And then Ted All of a sudden froze up and didn't want to run past the poodle and he was

anna audio:

and didn't want

phoebe audio:

behind me and I was like Ted like come on, come

anna audio:

lying behind me. And

phoebe audio:

he just like put his head down

anna audio:

Yeah, and then eventually he just, like, put his head down, up.

phoebe audio:

tell me about your words.

anna audio:

Well, my worst, and this is purely, I actually had a such a lovely morning, as you were just saying, like the trails were beautiful. It was so nice just running with you and Ant and I know, it was only because I kind of got. a kilometer. Cause I ran from home or sort of walk ran. Cause I realized I was running late. Yeah.

phoebe audio:

late.

anna audio:

and I thought I was okay from the day before I thought I'd pulled up. Okay. But I was actually pretty cooked and it was just hard. I think cause we're going on trails as well.

phoebe audio:

It just reminded

anna audio:

me how unfit I was.

phoebe audio:

That was a really big hill at one point. And you were powering up it, you were and I was like, God, she's just got it, doesn't she? And then we got to the top and I heard you're

anna audio:

voice.

phoebe audio:

and I was like, Oh, okay. God. She's so human. Yeah, this is

anna audio:

Yes, I do. I do know the exact hill that you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, God, we better decide.

phoebe audio:

at a map for a

anna audio:

it was still so lovely, but yeah, it was just I found it pretty tough.

phoebe audio:

Yeah, that is very fair.

anna audio:

what about your worst race? Worst race? Worst run?

phoebe audio:

Worst race! Wow!

anna audio:

Tell me about your worst run.

phoebe audio:

It's funny because I actually didn't tell you that that was going to be my worst run, but it was.

anna audio:

what? I didn't know that.

phoebe audio:

No, it, yeah, I know, which is why it's really funny, free in you said it, yes, yes, yes, yes, my worst, I raced terribly last night, thank you Anna.

anna audio:

Oh, that

phoebe audio:

that is so funny. Yes. My worst, worst friend was my race. So we may as well do the race debrief now, what do you reckon?

anna audio:

Yep, go for it.

phoebe audio:

that is so funny. I think it's fine to say that. It wasn't a very good race. I feel like afterwards, cause our friend Izzy raced as well, and she was also just a bit like, Oh man, I was hoping I'd go a lot faster. And we were asking, maybe this is an unfair question, but we, or mostly Izzy, was asking Jaco, her partner who was there

anna audio:

there watching,

phoebe audio:

Can you rate us out of 10 for those races? rate our performance out of 10.

anna audio:

God, that's really putting him on the spot.

phoebe audio:

He kept being like, Oh, it's a 10, you know, it's a 10 and we were like, no, it actually wasn't. And that's okay. Like we don't care that we raced badly. It's good to have some bad races sometimes, but then he goes, okay, maybe it's a seven. We're like, that's a bit of a nothing on solid, probably more like a six. then he's like, considering The prep you guys had had and stuff and then we're like, okay, no radar against our potential and he's like, oh, well three

anna audio:

Oh, okay. Okay, wow, I thought it was a

phoebe audio:

Wow, Jacko

anna audio:

In his head he's like, literally anything I say is not

phoebe audio:

Yeah So in terms of the race itself, the way that it was set up, it was an all women's track race, which is actually the first time I've raced with all women. So that was exciting and a bit nerve wracking. Everyone looked. Really

anna audio:

said professional. I'm that sounded like Everyone said professional. Oh, 100 percent Everyone, to be fair,

phoebe audio:

To be fair in my race, you didn't have to wear spikes. So in the A race, which I initially, as you know, got put in the A race, which for context, wave lights are like these pacing lights that wrap around the track that are set at a particular pace. And the wave lights for A race were at 15 minutes. Which, isn't far off the Australian record, and there were a lot of professional runners running in the A race, literally Olympians, some of our best runners, and I was clearly put in as, a filler because they needed numbers, but I actually emailed them asking me what's the deal my goal pace is closer to 18 minutes. The wave lights for the B race are set at 1745. is there any chance I can be put in a race that's more and they didn't even question it. They're like, no worries. Yeah.

anna audio:

Because it's all, you wanna enjoy it as much as possible.

phoebe audio:

well, yeah, and we'll talk about this when we talk about issues with track races, but on the one hand, it would have been so cool just being on the start line with those women, just what a cool thing, but I would have been by myself the entire race. I would, I watched, everyone did a really fast time in that race. I would have been blocked a few times. Like it just would have been a bit humiliating to be anyway. So I got moved into the B race. And, the wave lights were going, as I said, at 1745 and my rough plan was I'll try and sit with those wave lights because, and there were also some at 18 minutes 30, and I thought I'll try and sit with 1745, it's not a PB, but I don't know if I'm in PB shape and that might just be a good pace to do,

anna audio:

do it.

phoebe audio:

but I just, Literally from two laps in, I was like, no, this is way too hard. I am going to be cooked if I try and keep up with this pace. And there were like one or two girls who were dropping off the back a bit. And I was like, perfect. I'm just going to stick with them.

anna audio:

Yeah.

phoebe audio:

But we just kind of got slower and slower

anna audio:

Yeah. Okay. And

phoebe audio:

and slower. And it just felt like it was getting harder and harder and harder. And I was looking at the pace of my watch to start with being like, whoa, I'm off pace. And then I was like, okay, just Forget about it. Run and make it a good effort and then the next thing I saw the 18 minute 30 pace lights and then they went past me and I was like, whoa, I am not running. Well, yes, come on. Come on I felt really weak is how I describe it. You know, when you don't feel like the last two track races I've done, a year ago now, I felt really strong and comfortable at the pace I was running and both of them, I actually started out at a bit of a slower pace, but

anna audio:

pace. And then got

phoebe audio:

but I just felt really tired. which is fine. And then I was looking at a lap counter every lap like, Oh my God, I still have so many laps to go.

anna audio:

that is, I've been there. That is not a nice

phoebe audio:

And I had a lot of thoughts about why people shouldn't do

anna audio:

do this. and

phoebe audio:

then, yeah, with all up to go, I was like, okay, just give it everything you've got. even though I was so far behind my time, I was like, just still

anna audio:

Yeah, you still wanna,

phoebe audio:

yeah. And so I ran as hard as I could over the last 400 meters. I just think, yeah, you kind of have to, I

anna audio:

Yeah. Do you reckon it would've been different if you went out a bit slower or do you think you just weren't feeling good?

phoebe audio:

I don't, I mean, I think I would have had to go out a fair bit slower for it to be

anna audio:

be, for it to,

phoebe audio:

because it would have only been a few seconds slower per lap to go out at 18 minute pace, for example, which is what I've done

anna audio:

Yeah. Yeah.

phoebe audio:

Yeah, I don't know. if I was to try and make excuses for my performance. I actually will start by saying, I actually don't think I have excuses. I think it was really good

anna audio:

Yeah.

phoebe audio:

And, I think my training's been decent. I've been really happy with my training I wasn't running by myself. I was running with people for most of it, even if it was just one other person. So I feel like realistically there are no excuses and it's fine to a bad race. It can be a good

anna audio:

I don't think, yeah, I don't really like the whole idea of excuses, but I don't even think this is one, but part of me wonders if your expectations were a little too high considering what's been happening off the track the last couple of months, you've been solo. In Iron that you haven't really been able to run, properly since pre Berlin. You've just got an Iron infusion, you were in for a colonoscopy, literally the week before the race. and I'm not saying, they're not excuses, but I wonder if your goals should have been adjusted a little bit more to make space for both of those things.

phoebe audio:

I think coach was kind of like, I think you just need a block of like healthy training. I think that I was training pretty well, but I probably wasn't absorbing it that well. My sessions were going well, but as the listeners will know, most of the runs outside of that, I, until recently I've been feeling pretty bad. So possibly I was just doing good sessions, but, cooking myself from them. I've also only been doing one session a week for ages because I've been Too tired by Friday. So, and I think in previous years, I've never, I always have done two sessions a week, like for years and years and years. I also think, I know I was messaging you a bit about this yesterday and you were trying to be like, don't think about it, but like, I have had a really big week at work and including the day of the race, I just had such an intense day. I was in meetings for eight hours. I trying to like eat around the meetings and. Like, um,

anna audio:

in itself.

phoebe audio:

which I don't, I mean, I think I ate enough and everything, but it's more just I'm so mentally exhausted this whole week has been, um, so intense. And so, you remember when actually we learned a bit about this in the marathon block when we were learning about the impact of cognitive fatigue on perceived, there's that, study that I think you found that was like, If people try and do a whole bunch of difficult problem solving and then do an effort, the perceived exertion is way higher

anna audio:

higher, yeah.

phoebe audio:

the output is slower. Yeah. And everything. And I think because I was feeling really mentally fatigued, I just felt really fatigued from the start. And I do think your mind can struggle to tell the difference

anna audio:

Yeah, definitely.

phoebe audio:

mental, emotional. Exhaustion. And physical

anna audio:

Well, it's like when we we have spoken about before the stress as a whole. It's not as though you have allocated bits of stress for each day for physical, emotional, cognitively. Like it's all just grouped into one. Yeah. So If you've been stressed, that's not gonna make, a great build up for a, like, 5k track race where you're about to put your body under stress, even though your

phoebe audio:

track race? So you don't put your under stress, even though just been under stress for a few It was also hot. We're running in full sunlight. I feel like those factors play into it, but also to come back to I want to be okay just sitting with it and being like, yeah, I just had a bad race. And I think that you can't really have good races if you don't have bad races. And my two track races last year were, I was really happy with both of

anna audio:

Yeah.

phoebe audio:

And whereas I feel normally everyone has a few track races that they're like. That was so brutal. That was so hard and so it's good to have one of those to know how it feels Yeah, and

anna audio:

I also think that then it makes the good ones even more special. Like I think I did two track races

phoebe audio:

last year Yeah

anna audio:

of last year. I wasn't happy with either of them. But like that's Yeah. But then I did one I think four months before that

phoebe audio:

Yeah

anna audio:

and I was happy with that, even though I was a lot fitter last year than the year before, but it just sometimes doesn't

phoebe audio:

than

anna audio:

perfectly. Yeah. Yeah. And

phoebe audio:

but sometimes, like, doesn't kind of like, over perfectly. About, being okay with competing or like being in that competitive environment and failing

anna audio:

all the time

phoebe audio:

like not achieving your goal. I think that's can be something that we feel quite afraid of and almost admitting it. me saying yeah, my goal was to get 1745. I'm like, Oh, I didn't even say my end time is I think 1840, something.

anna audio:

1837, I

phoebe audio:

1837 I can't remember somewhere around there. and so I was pretty much like a minute off and That's okay

anna audio:

No

phoebe audio:

as we've said no one really cares

anna audio:

said Nothing special comes from not putting yourself out there.

phoebe audio:

Also, do you know what this reminds me of? I remember the very, very, very first track race I did. And I'd only been, training for, maybe six months with, an actual coach. And it was that, Bankstown athletics in Sydney, which to me was this intimidating thing to go out. It was so intimidating to go out to an athletics track. Actually, my little

anna audio:

heard of Bankstown.

phoebe audio:

my little cousin John T paced me, um, because he's a really good runner and he's like, okay, I'll just sit with you. and cause again, I was in a race where everyone was much faster than me. It was a mixed race. So we just pretty much sat at the back behind everyone. But now that I'm thinking, I think my time was really similar. And I was. I was ecstatic with that time. I could not believe. I was like, I'll try and go for sub 20

anna audio:

Yeah.

phoebe audio:

And then I was like, whoa, like that was so much. Yeah. And so that's nice to think that now that time is disappointing. Yeah, it's interesting how

anna audio:

Yeah. It is interesting how things change. I don't know. I think I said to you maybe in a message, but I reckon. When you are running, you really just gotta embrace the good, the bad, and the ugly because, it's still so cool that you can do it, kind of thing. Do you know what I

phoebe audio:

completely

anna audio:

So, I reckon, like, the more Yeah, exactly.

phoebe audio:

if you just

anna audio:

We're really happy every time you race, everyone would do it and then it would like lose its meaning kind of thing. I think you should be proud of yourself.

phoebe audio:

I think it's fine. I think I'm proud of myself, but I also want

anna audio:

more. Want more, but I'm hungry.

phoebe audio:

that's

anna audio:

right. Nice. alright, so should we kind of explain what track races are first? I genuinely would not have even known that these were a thing if I hadn't I joined up with a coach and he told go along to one of them. I think you wouldn't know. amateur beginner

phoebe audio:

space. Not at all.

anna audio:

about a bit more, but so essentially a lot of the time, or in, at least in Melbourne, they're on Wednesday or Thursday night and they're usually at one of two tracks in particular, and you go, so when you enter, you put in what time you would like to go for, and even that I know can kind of seem intimidating, but the reason why they do that is just so they can actually see the races properly to make sure that you're going off with runners around a similar pace. and once you do that,

phoebe audio:

you need to do that in fun runs too, don't you? Put down your, your time.

anna audio:

I think, well,

phoebe audio:

you in your

anna audio:

Yeah, I think so Oh yeah. True. Yeah. Yeah.

phoebe audio:

Yeah. So a similar

anna audio:

Yeah. and then you get there and you like collect your bib and then it's I would say it's almost like a lot more casual in the sense that you could easily miss your race because it's not as though it's just one big fun run. you need to almost be responsible for being okay, my race is at 6 50 PM. I need to warm up now and I need to be at the starting line. before then because not everyone's just gonna flow over because not everyone is like in that race. I remember doing it once and almost missing the race. I feel like at fun runs you just go with the flow because everyone's in the same boat but then like they will literally just start.

phoebe audio:

start. Well, last night we did our warmup probably started at 15 minutes before the

anna audio:

Before the race, yeah.

phoebe audio:

rushing after

anna audio:

Yeah, it's hard to

phoebe audio:

there much earlier and it was quite a far drive. And so yeah, I reckon we did a five minute warmup. Yeah. And then just headed over to the start line, did some strides, did some leg swings,

anna audio:

Yeah, I'm ready to go. And then, you go in your seated thing. They literally normally they have six to ten races. Over the night. Yeah. Yeah. Which is actually kind of fun because I feel like it means that you can, especially if you have friends that are doing it, even if you're not exactly the same pace, they're quite often just running around you so you can stay and watch. and as the night goes on, the like races get. I guess. So they call them a races for the men's and women's, they often go off last. Cause I guess they're the

phoebe audio:

they're the pinnacle of the

anna audio:

event.

phoebe audio:

I think the other things to know is that basically they're mostly for amateur runners, there'll be 5k races. they count down your laps. So that's quite handy. So you start over the other side of the track, but then at the finish line, there's a lap counter that they hold up a sign that tell you how many laps you've got to go. And sometimes they'll have pacing groups as well. they'll have people within the race who are. Specifically Pace as being like, I'm going to run a 20 minute 5k for example so you could hypothetically just sit with them

anna audio:

Yeah, yeah, which is cool as well. Cause I love it when that happens when you're going for aligns with the pacer. Cause you can literally just sit and not think.

phoebe audio:

think. Yeah, that is

anna audio:

Yeah. they're the track races that we quite often do. So

phoebe audio:

So we have done a few of them. Why aren't they more popular? Because they're pretty,

anna audio:

Well, they're pretty small events. Comparatively to fun runs. Yes. There's no hype around them whatsoever. No,

phoebe audio:

No. And I think generally, not really talked about as something that people are like thinking about doing in the same way that people say, I want to do Melbourne half

anna audio:

do Melbourne Half now. Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons is they're largely marketed to the dedicated runner and as you sort of said like you only found out about one once you started running with the

phoebe audio:

Yeah, or now they get posted on our running club,

anna audio:

they're like facebook

phoebe audio:

Otherwise I wouldn't

anna audio:

have no idea yeah so i feel unless you're Running with a coach or a squad, you don't actually really know about them, or of your regional athletics association. And also they sell out really quickly because I don't know if they don't have the capacity, or they choose not to, but not a whole heap of entries and obviously all of the dedicated runners know exactly when the entries come out. So then they're just filled up.

phoebe audio:

filled up. Yeah, it's, it's funny like to almost paint the picture of last night, number one is it's easily predominantly men running, as opposed to fun runs where you see pretty much equal participation these days. There were two all girls race, which even that, that's really unusual.

anna audio:

'cause I,

phoebe audio:

only maybe

anna audio:

One, I was gonna say, I was saying to you, most of the time there's only one solely women's race. And then if that, if that, and then they have some mixed races

phoebe audio:

there's just maybe two to three women in a race of 20 men. And so that's a big difference. But then also the kind of people that you see there, as we were saying before, it's almost the starkest divide between the old runners and the new runners. Don't you reckon? It's like, it's all people who have come through athletics, Victoria or athletics, New South Wales, or whatever that looks like they do cross country. They train with a competitive group and. I have, before we go through even more about why does no one do them and why people should and how to make them more inclusive, maybe that's okay that they're like, just for,

anna audio:

Yeah, yeah, I, I appreciate what you're saying. I do reckon maybe that's okay, but I also wonder if they were to be more accessible to the beginner runners, if they would do them because park run, for instance, is so popular. It's not as though people don't want to do the five kilometer distance. and we've even had messages, after we've spoken about doing track sessions and stuff, from people saying that they feel like they need to be a certain speed to even, step onto the track to do a training. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I feel like there are just so many barriers.

phoebe audio:

I know I completely agree and I do think whilst not everyone would maybe want to do them there would probably be a really large portion of amateur runners who would love a track night and really really enjoy it if it was done in a way that was a little bit more accessible to

anna audio:

Maybe we should ask the listeners, if you felt like you could and it was accessible and very welcoming, would you actually want to do a 5K

phoebe audio:

We'll do a poll. We're going to actually talk through some of the reasons why you should want to do it. But first of all, let's go back to this question of A, why do not many amateur runners, but B, specifically women do them? I would say some, when you say largely marketed at the dedicated runner, I completely agree. And one of the things we were discussing is The event pages are just like on Athletics Victoria, which I wouldn't have even known what that was, really.

anna audio:

you, yeah.

phoebe audio:

of my own terms gone and checked out Athletics Victoria. Do you know what I mean? but even just the way that they're talked about and almost the branding around them is that it's a race, not about getting a distance done as opposed to a fun run,

anna audio:

Yeah, that's

phoebe audio:

fun runs are all about Come and take part in this thing with the community, hit this distance, and maybe get a PB or whatever, whereas track races, to me, feel a lot more like an actual race than Yes,

anna audio:

Yeah. Yes. Rather than a, let's all, do this together. Yeah. And how cool would it

phoebe audio:

cool would it

anna audio:

Part of me thinks there more men than women that see themselves as dedicated runners? women don't allow themselves to say that they are a dedicated runner.'cause even last night for instance, as we were saying, that was the first time that there'd been an all girls second race. Mm-hmm But there are seven men's races and then two mixed, which are Oh yeah. I've looked at the results and predominantly all men. Yeah. what are your thoughts on that? Well,

phoebe audio:

think? Well, I wonder if there's less. Because women generally stop playing sport earlier,

anna audio:

than

phoebe audio:

like competitive sport. If that, feeling of competing feels more scary for women, I think that for men that's quite normalized as a really motivating thing, I'm going to compete against other men. And maybe we can talk about the difference between an all woman race versus a mixed race because I found it really different. it's funny when I line up against men, I don't feel like I'm competing with them. I'm like, you will help me get my goal time because I'm

anna audio:

yeah, yeah.

phoebe audio:

Whereas when you're racing against women, it feels more like a race

anna audio:

is a race, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I have felt exactly the

phoebe audio:

Yeah. Yeah. And I just think that concept of racing and competing and potentially losing, it's not something that women, like, when do we do that? If you're not playing competitive sports still, which, you know, there still definitely are a lot of women who play competitive sport, but much less so than, men. maybe there is just a bit of a. just like a stigma around that? I think that is

anna audio:

the case. we know that women drop out of competitive way earlier. And then if men are continuing, even if it's in a team environment, then they're more likely to feel comfortable and confident to then go

phoebe audio:

race. Yes, I think so. Whereas for

anna audio:

that. Yes. Okay,

phoebe audio:

Yes. Okay, another thing for women, the paces are way too fast for most amateur women. I have friends who I've tried to Do a track race like you'd love it. And they're like, I am not fast enough. and whilst part of me is like, it doesn't matter what speed you go, part of me is like, well, also if you're getting lapped, that isn't an enjoyable experience. no one wants that. It's me last night, not wanting to be in the A race. that's not enjoyable as much as I want to be like, put yourself out there, give it a go. You you want to be.

anna audio:

able to run with people, that's Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And

phoebe audio:

Um, so I think a lot of these fun runs, even when they're set at Oh, usually it's there's a 20 minute group and that might be the slowest group,

anna audio:

which is crazy because that is insanely

phoebe audio:

insanely fast for men, let alone the percentage of women who could run that is so much less. And so I almost think we're talking like have a 30 minute group, have a 35 minute group. Those kind of, and I mean, getting into solutions here, but I do think that the perceived speed that you think that you need to be able to run,

anna audio:

And to be fair,

phoebe audio:

and to be fair, the actual speed that you'd be able to run if you didn't want to get lapped, is really

anna audio:

it's really hard. Yeah, Well, yeah, maybe it's a bit of the chicken and the egg because maybe they would have more races that do allow for times to like 40 minutes or something if there was,, request for it.

phoebe audio:

Yes, absolutely. Oh, there's a hundred

anna audio:

people see it and then they're like well I'm not gonna do that because that's almost half the time that I'll take kind of thing

phoebe audio:

thing. Insane. Um. I think, I think one other thing that I was thinking about as a limiting factor is there are, the requirements on the, Box Hill, which is the race that I did, Box Hill Burn, first of all, they talk about the shoes that you need to wear. And it's really not clear. Who needs to wear them and who doesn't, but it's all spikes.

anna audio:

which is kind of,

phoebe audio:

yeah, as I learned, it was just for the A race, which was another reason that I didn't want to do it. Cause I obviously don't own spikes and I don't know how to run on them and I'm not about to go out and buy a pair of shoes for, One race, and I feel like the idea that you'd need to wear spikes would just immediately discount a lot of people. And then they also had there that you need a lap counter. I was like, I don't even know what that is, I don't know, like,

anna audio:

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's like a, um, there's like a presumed knowledge even in the, sign up

phoebe audio:

there's a lot of presumed knowledge. I, yes, I really agree

anna audio:

Yeah, so why do we reckon people should do

phoebe audio:

reckon people should do them?

anna audio:

We love

phoebe audio:

love them and there's almost two parts to the solution. If the goal is to get more amateur runners, particularly women doing them. One is to make them more accessible. And then the other one is to work on the collective mindset about track racing and what it is and what it isn't. cause as you said, we love

anna audio:

I, yeah, I just reckon they're so

phoebe audio:

They're honestly some of my absolute all time favorite

anna audio:

time favourites.

phoebe audio:

I actually think one of the best things about doing a track race is it is an opportunity to do your PB, your fastest time in that event. For people who haven't run much on track, track is so fast compared to your average park run serves. It's really bouncy. It's just flat.

anna audio:

Yeah, there's no holes or you're never going to have to dodge anything like it's just very, yeah, and I also think some fun runs, it might be, you're not quite sure cause it's a little bit out, it's 5. 3 kilometers or 4. 8 or whatever. Yeah, whereas you know, the 12 and a half laps is five kilometers. So there's not that second guessing of. Whether or not, is my Strava right? Or is the other? Yeah, exactly. I also think that because of the lap counting you can pace yourself so well because you know exactly where you are at all times. Which can be not so good when you're not feeling good. But it can be so beneficial when you're, Yeah,

phoebe audio:

agree. I also think because of what we spoke about before, they're almost always after work, summer evening, it's a really nice atmosphere, okay, some of them feel a little bit more intense than others, some do a really good job of being a little bit more chill, but generally it's a beautiful sunset, your friends can come and watch and support, and over and done with, and then you can sit around and watch some

anna audio:

other families. Yeah, it's, yeah, I think as well because It's daylight savings. There's not that often that, you know, after work you kind of get this whole nother day. Yeah. that. It is, yeah.

phoebe audio:

It does feel like that. I agree. I also think, no matter how you're doing them, you always feel really good afterwards.

anna audio:

Yeah. I agree. Night,

phoebe audio:

night, yeah, again, Izzy and I were both like, ugh, not our best race. But, You're just on a bit of a high, like you've given it a go, you've run out there, you've really tried your best at something. And to be able to just do that mid week, school night no less,

anna audio:

I know. Did you get grilled on the way home?

phoebe audio:

of it? No, but I ordered it to, yes.

anna audio:

I feel

phoebe audio:

Post stage tradition.

anna audio:

We obviously speak about how there are so many facets of running, as to why we run, but they can be, if you have the right mindset, they can just be so fun.

phoebe audio:

They can

anna audio:

Like, it's so fun to, able to push yourself and see where you're at where your limit is at the moment It's really you you get a sense of a real accomplishment after doing one. Yeah

phoebe audio:

I've had a few track races where, as I said before, my very first one, I honestly didn't know I was capable of that. And that is such a rare feeling in life to get that. So I guess that comes back to that, idea of don't be afraid of really challenging yourself. You know what? This kind of comes back to I think it's a conversation we've sort of had before, which is why don't more people do 5k races in general and 10k races like short? Like Everyone seems to want to go straight up to like half marathon. And I feel like there's something scary about the shorter distance because it feels more about the time than just getting

anna audio:

yeah, it is, it's intimidating. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. okay. So we've spoken about why we don't think people do them why we think people should do them. So now let's talk about how to make them more accessible. So.

phoebe audio:

firstly, um,

anna audio:

this seems pretty obvious, but I think the marketing really needs to change because at the moment, as we've spoken about, it's directed at the pretty serious runners already. You don't really even know about them unless you're mixing in those. Yeah. Yeah, um, I assumes to have it. So let's, let's

phoebe audio:

I, I mean, and this all assumes that they

anna audio:

was the

phoebe audio:

let's, let's assume that that was the case and they were like, we want to grow this out to be, a much bigger thing that feels much more accessible and rah, rah rah. I don't think that they make much money off these, it only costs$20 to enter. Yeah. Um, so it would be sort of a, yeah. Community initiative, if you will. but I really agree. I think the messaging around it, there's so much track jargon that makes it inaccessible, everything from pictures that they use, to demonstrate what it is and the kind of runners you see in those pictures through to the way that it's communicated. Like I was reading the Box Hill Burn website and it's literally just there will be a 5, 000 meter and a 10, 000 meter race. Sign up here.

anna audio:

Or 1,

phoebe audio:

Or 1, 000, sorry. Yeah. And it's just like,

anna audio:

like, you

phoebe audio:

sell it or you can actually like sell it a little

anna audio:

yeah, yeah.

phoebe audio:

If that was the goal, I also think there's an opportunity to reframe. I know we just spoke about how you've got to, maybe be okay with racing, but I think the real best part of track races is actually when you work together as a team to get a time. My favorite race ever was the one last year where there was a group of us girls who all wanted to

anna audio:

the same time. The Tracksmith

phoebe audio:

the tracksmith

anna audio:

fun. We all wanted

phoebe audio:

all wanted to get the same time and we ran together and worked together the whole race. And he was. It was so fun. if you could set it up so it was all about, how can we all work together as a team to get a PB? And there's a heap of different time options. And they're accessible. Yeah. Then that becomes something that is genuinely really, really exciting and rewarding. Yeah.

anna audio:

yeah, it's like together as opposed to

phoebe audio:

Racing, yeah, and that can always come into it a bit, like, it just, 100%. Yeah, yeah, put the burners on.

anna audio:

but yeah, I think I'm being a lot more inclusive of a wider range of speeds will get people in because. So many people, you, you look at the times that they're having or the paces and they're just like unachievable,

phoebe audio:

unachieved un. Yeah.

anna audio:

I mean, even doing that in itself would surely bring in so many more

phoebe audio:

people and having really good paces who are like really encouraging. I think that kind of thing makes such a difference as

anna audio:

Yeah,

phoebe audio:

and maybe some more women paces.

anna audio:

Yeah, I think so. And I haven't just like flashing back to our first birthday of the, the six minute group and your brother leading and them just being one big team, that should be what

phoebe audio:

Yeah. Did I tell you that one of my, one of my colleagues, a girl from work came and she got a 5k PB. Yeah. At the cheeky run club run. So good. That's what happens when you have a pace up.

anna audio:

you have a

phoebe audio:

and then I guess finally is like they could. Think about how to make the night a little bit more of a vibe. one that's accessible for women as well I suppose.

anna audio:

Yeah. And I reckon, I didn't think it would take that much, maybe a bit more music, maybe some more food trucks or even like places to sit. So people could just hang out and get dinner there while they're watching their friend.

phoebe audio:

my yeah I

anna audio:

so you don't need the grilled on the way home.

phoebe audio:

girls on the way home. Yeah, imagine. Yeah, I mean I do think it only works if you've done the effort with the marketing. Yeah. With anything if you want to try and increase women participation, like you need to market it at women. And so it would need to actually have a lean on that. Because you know you're naturally gonna maybe get more men. Yeah. what do you think about women only? I

anna audio:

I like that idea, but I just, sustainably, and to actually get people into running these events. I think it would just be better if everyone could come, because then the women would only come to the women only. And there will still be races like last night that don't have

phoebe audio:

maybe it's

anna audio:

that representation. Yeah, maybe. I don't know, I like the idea of just like everyone being able to do it together. Yeah, yeah. Let's strive for 50 50.

phoebe audio:

Yeah.

anna audio:

alright! I think that's all we've got time for.

phoebe audio:

I think it is because very soon we'll cut in with the audio about the event tomorrow.

anna audio:

I know, I'm nervous, but we will see you on the other side. Attendance

phoebe audio:

numbers are looking good.

anna audio:

I know, they are. So, I wish, yeah, they are

phoebe audio:

I wish they all come.

anna audio:

I wish that they all come. At 11. 11 today, I will be wishing that they all turn up.

phoebe audio:

I think we're at nearly, I think we're at nearly 300 rojos, just under. Which is pretty

anna audio:

Pretty insane. Yeah.

phoebe audio:

so yeah, you are about to hear about whether it was a, um,

anna audio:

was a, um Really the

phoebe audio:

We're gonna be crying.

anna audio:

Crying or laughing.

phoebe audio:

no, no, I'm sure

anna audio:

Because if you don't laugh, you'll cry. Alright, okay.

phoebe audio:

we're back at Friday.

anna audio:

This is gonna be so confusing. Uh,

phoebe audio:

Hope that went well.

anna audio:

Yeah. So we hope the run went well. Um, as always, thank you so much for listening to us and

phoebe audio:

Let us know your thoughts on track

anna audio:

Yeah. We really wanna know, would you be keen.

phoebe audio:

you be keen? Is there something that would interest you? Is there something we've missed in terms of what would make it more accessible? Or why you would or wouldn't want to do it?

anna audio:

Yeah, yeah, we're keen to hear your thoughts. Um, otherwise, we can't wait to be in your ears next Monday. Bye! Bye! what about your worst race? Worst race? Worst run?

phoebe audio:

Worst race! Wow!

anna audio:

Oh my god.

phoebe audio:

Okay, why are you telling me? Why don't you tell me? My worst race was

anna audio:

my god. Tell me how you really feel. Tell

phoebe audio:

Tell me how you really feel about the rice I did last night, which actually I was really proud of.

anna audio:

really tough.