Cheeky Run Club

Listening to your body-not always as easy as it sounds

• Anna Coldham

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Helllooooo lovely people!

 Ever had someone tell you to just, “listen to your body”? In today’s episode, we look at how stress can make it difficult to keep an ear out for those cues and give you guys some tools to help reconnect with your bodies.

 And you guys loved our new segment, “Conversations with Friends,” and we loved having a giggle and giving our hot takes on your long-run debates at the end of the episode.

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, Tiktok, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper. Logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Phoebe:

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

Anna:

This episode is brought to you by Nike's after dark tour, Nike's global race series starting in Sydney on April 12th.

Phoebe:

Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast, and community for your everyday Amateur. Hello, Phoebe. Hello and hello listeners.

Anna:

for the main topic Today we are talking about the advice that lives rent free in most of our heads as runners, which is listen to your body. We are going to unpack whether that's actually useful advice and understand how things like stress work and life in general can alter your body's cues and signals in such a way that makes that advice extremely challenging to follow.

Phoebe:

Exactly. Have you ever been so stressed that you can't really tell if you're hungry, tired, Arthur or Martha? We love the ethos of listen to your body, but often feel like our bodies are in fact good at hiding the fact that they're struggling. So we thought we would discuss what actually happens when your body's under stress, why it can be difficult to acknowledge, and how to reconnect with your body whilst under stress.

Anna:

We are then going to finish up the episode with the brand new segment, Conversations with Friends. We are going to settle, some listener debates that were had on long runs last week. I think we've got like four or five, so we'll power through

Phoebe:

them. Yeah. first of all though, let's kick it off with our best and worst runs. Phoebe, give me your worst run this week.

Anna:

My worst run. This is such an honor thing to say, but it's a non run.

Phoebe:

Well

Anna:

Oh. Well only because I was meant to race on Thursday night, so I was meant to have my second 5K track race. Yeah. And so as a result, I tapered for it. You mentally prepare yourself. Carb loaded a little bit that

Phoebe:

Yeah. I feel like it's also in your head all

Anna:

It hangs over you. And even the days leading up to it. And I think the combination of the TID post niggle that I'd been managing and the taper, basically, I spoke to my coach and we were just like, he said, let's just, Not really run much between now and the races is on the weekend, so just do 30 minutes Monday. 20 minutes Wednesday, that's it. Yeah. And so I'd tapered and I'd barely run on the weekend, so I'd tapered so hard. and then what happened was there was a chance of a storm. And so at midday on Thursday, they messaged us all saying the race is canceled.'cause they might have some lightning. And I totally get it. Like I'm sure that's just in their policy, like they wouldn't have had a

Phoebe:

Yeah, it makes sense. It's frustrating though because it was

Anna:

fine. It was fine.

Phoebe:

night.

Anna:

Yeah. There was no,

Phoebe:

I looked outside and the wind sort of died down.

Anna:

wind died

Phoebe:

calm and it was quite nice and I thought, oh gosh, you almost, if something's canceled,

Anna:

you want it to,

Phoebe:

that it's like justified. Yes,

Anna:

exactly. So that was a bit disappointing. I did try and rally a group to still do a 5K run that night. Yeah. but to be fair, by the time, the end of the day came round, I was like, oh, this is not, I'm not vibing this. you and I had a meeting early that morning and then I got to work, did a few things, looked at my watch and it 8:30 AM. I was like, I am so tired already and the race isn't

Phoebe:

hours and

Anna:

and I have such a big day at work. I was like, this

Phoebe:

like, how on earth am I

Anna:

I literally was like, I dunno how this is gonna work.

Phoebe:

maybe they organizers you, you are gonna have a hectic day. And we're like, you know what, you

Anna:

give her a night off. Yep. but no, a few of us met at the track the next morning. Yeah. To do a little 5K tempo. I actually just did a 2K'cause again, Gary, my coach was like, if you don't need to do 5K, let's just. Keep it shorter to save your, um, tip post. Yes. But yes, that was very disappointing. Yeah, because they're not rescheduling it either, so I feel like I still need

Phoebe:

That's sad that they, yeah. They've just canceled it and not

Anna:

Yeah,

Phoebe:

Yeah. There'll be another one.

Anna:

What was your worst running related activity this

Phoebe:

Mine was a run, was a

Anna:

it was a run,

Phoebe:

Phoebe style. Um, on Tuesday morning I set with one of our girlfriends, Mel, as people probably know, a lot of the time on Tuesdays we do a session, but obviously just jogging at the moment. So we met up for a little jog. It is in Melbourne. Super dark at the moment because it's kind of that weird time where daylight savings is still a thing, but it's getting a lot darker, so it's like still at almost like 7:00

Anna:

It's so dark.

Phoebe:

crazy. Anyway, so it was super dark. We were just jogging along money, our own business, and. I tripped.

Anna:

Oh no.

Phoebe:

yeah, I fell over. Yeah. There was this, you know how when the concrete or the path kind of splits a little bit from a tree root? Yeah. It was like that, but I hadn't seen it. Yeah. And it wasn't even that bad. I just had to I don't know. Obviously it has to be a worst run.

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

I didn't break any skin and Mel said that she gave me an eight out of 10 for my fall because I somehow managed to. Put both of my hands out evenly and then just kind of roll to the side. Oh, you

Anna:

like absorbed it. Well, yeah. Which is so

Phoebe:

Which is so crazy. I don't know how I did that.

Anna:

Just instincts. Anyway,

Phoebe:

I then we were sort of standing over and she was like making sure I was okay and we were kind of laughing about it a little bit. And then there was this woman and man who were running behind us. Then she tripped over the same thing. Over the same thing anyway. And we're like, oh, you okay? Had a little joke about it. And then Mel and I continued on a run and I was saying, you know what? I feel like running and tripping when it's just the two of you is a lot better than if you're in a group. Because I feel like it's almost like the people around you, it's like a bit of a bruise to your ego and it's a bit more of a big deal. And it's just the two of you, you're like a whatever

Anna:

like, yeah. No one knows about

Phoebe:

Yeah. Literally no one knows. Yeah, yeah. Well, but then I was, and we were laughing. We were like, yeah, nobody saw, and then we get this Instagram DM on cheeky being like, Hey, Anna, hope you're okay after your fall. I was the one that fell behind you.

Anna:

She

Phoebe:

She was like, I was trying to work out what you felt, what you tripped over. And then I tripped over myself.

Anna:

tri. So you've actually kind of caused a cheeky listener to have a fall

Phoebe:

To have a fall. To have a fall. Exactly. So Shout out to Cara who also fell on Tuesday morning. I hope you're okay.

Anna:

Name a shame.

Phoebe:

but yeah, that was my worst run of the week. What was, gimme your best. I think I said to you before I know what it is. It's this morning.

Anna:

you'll have to wait and see, but bingo, yes. This morning was such a nice run. So, to set the scene for anyone who, so right now it's Saturday morning in Melbourne. We're recording a little bit later than usual It

Phoebe:

Ladies of Ledger on a

Anna:

Yeah, I know, I know.

Phoebe:

Who are we?

Anna:

we, um, it is the nice ast day. Like it's autumnal,

Phoebe:

It's mm,

Anna:

Blue skies, no wind. Just a perfect morning. I did about 90 minutes, so it felt like a good, long run. Couldn't feel my niggle at all. I think it's just gone now, which is great. We did this beautiful loop, around the trails, around, um, RAB and Park in Melbourne. Just didn't, we barely saw anyone out. it was so quiet that Yara Boulevard is so quiet on a Saturday morning. Yeah. Just kind of cruised along. Did a loop picked up you and your partner Dave and my partner Sean and Ted,

Phoebe:

And Ted, yep.

Anna:

And did another loop with you guys.

Phoebe:

it was really nice. Really nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

Sat around afterwards I had, I got the most delicious, toasty pumpkin and Hulu mi. You were very jealous. I was

Phoebe:

very jealous.

Anna:

Sniffing it. You, you got a triple decker?

Phoebe:

Yeah, well sadly, this is anyone that owns a cafe, so. So we went to this cafe that it is actually really nice, but they don't do their toasties with gluten-free bread because they say they're pre-made. But I'm like, surely you still have the ingredients? And I really wanted a pumpkin and cheese

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

anyway, they said they can do an egg and bacon sandwich for me, which I was like, oh, that's cool. But also what's the difference between that and just making another like pumpkin and cheese on. But anyway, it comes out and it's like this, the pieces of bread are literally five centimeters. In length.

Anna:

Your

Phoebe:

They were so small, but then obviously they've been like, oh, well shit, these pieces of bread are like, literally, it's like a piece of bread for an ant. And so then they've triple decade it, so it was like this club sandwich, so

Anna:

tall

Phoebe:

Oh.

Anna:

like, it was very funny watching your face when you were trying to

Phoebe:

the gluten-free bread was just clearly from the supermarket. They'd gotten it out of the freezer and I was just like, do better if you're charging me$17. Yeah, do better.

Anna:

better.

Phoebe:

I don't wanna say the cafe

Anna:

Oh, no, no, no. Because it's a lovely

Phoebe:

It is a lovely cafe. Yeah, it is. For some.

Anna:

is for sell. Um, what was your best round of the

Phoebe:

Um, my best run of the week was not a run, but in, in the same vein as it's so strange. So my best and worst have both been solely with our friend Melanie. was so nice. We met. That's so nice. I think because normally when I go swimming on a Wednesday

Anna:

yeah.

Phoebe:

obviously love it, but you know, you try to get there by six and then out by seven and that kind of thing. And we try to swim two ks. whereas it honestly, statistically it really wasn't that different. But I feel like it just had a way more relaxed feel. Nice. We got in at, we were gonna meet at six 30, but ended up getting in at six 40. We just splashed around for a

Anna:

bit. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Yeah. And then which got

Anna:

going to the outdoor

Phoebe:

Still going to PR pool. Yeah. Which is

Anna:

get a bit of a sunrise. Yeah.

Phoebe:

I just way prefer outdoor pools. Yeah.

Anna:

I completely

Phoebe:

I, they're just, yeah. So much better.

Anna:

We give an honorable mention to our Sunday afternoon yoga and, oh yeah.

Phoebe:

Gosh, I almost, we, I actually forgot. I think, sorry Mel. I think that probably takes the cake of best activity. We went to inner studios in Collingwood, which Phoebe, I am pretty sure half of your income

Anna:

goes

Phoebe:

to there, doesn't it? She frequents it quite a lot. And we did this yoga Yin class before doing this, sauna and guided ice bath. And on a Sunday afternoon, it was rainy Sunday

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

as well. I think that was like. Peak Sunday afternoon

Anna:

activity. That is, I completely agree. Yeah, The yoga class went for like an hour and 10 minutes, but most of it was literally sleep, sleeping with her, waving inserts around. It

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

so good. It was so

Phoebe:

I was saying to you after when we got into the sauna. I was in that altered state of consciousness where you're not asleep but you are almost dreaming

Anna:

Yes. Yeah. Weird.

Phoebe:

thoughts that you wouldn't normally have. But then as soon as the lady spoke and was like, okay, let's come back. Open your

Anna:

eyes. Yeah,

Phoebe:

Then I could, it was bizarre.

Anna:

was so nice. Okay.

Phoebe:

what you call Zen.

Anna:

I think it is. I think it is. poppy. Oh, that's so sad. Papa.

Phoebe:

alright. Should we get into the main topic of the

Anna:

Let's do it. I got a really insightful voice note from a friend this week and I was talking to Anna about it and we thought, oh, this would be an amazing topic for the podcast. she was basically talking about, how this concept of listening to your body. Is quite in vogue right

Phoebe:

now.

Anna:

Mm. Including by, we love to say

Phoebe:

love to say it.

Anna:

We love to say, we love to say,

Phoebe:

We love to say

Anna:

We love to tell

Phoebe:

Do we love to do it?

Anna:

Listen to your body. And she was saying she had a really stressful Y year last year and she's currently, taking some time off and traveling so.

Phoebe:

this is

Anna:

anonymous enough.

Phoebe:

She's really burnt out.

Anna:

out. She was, she would say she burnt out. She was so burnt out last year. I think so many people listening will really resonate with this classic, working, very hard, taking on board, everything running and it catches up with you. I think this happened. Well, you were saying before, you feel like it kind of happened to you last year in a sense as well.

Phoebe:

Yeah, I, yeah. I was saying that researching this topic was kind of quite triggering'cause I realized that a lot of it like applied to me.

Anna:

Yeah. But her point was basically like, that advice of listening to your body doesn't work that well when the stress that your body is under can actually kind of mute the cues that you need to be listening to. And not just the stress, we'll talk through actually all the different factors that can actually make it. So that that advice, listening to your body isn't actually that helpful because your body's not actually telling you anything

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

I guess high level, why is that advice so popular of listening to your body in that kind of intuitive training?

Phoebe:

I think it's relative for running and life in the sense that you have a better quality of life. I feel like if you can listen to your body, you avoid injuries and getting sick all the time, you're being sustainable in whatever you're doing. Whether that's running or another form of activity, or work even. And more so running related, it's better for your recovery and then also for your performance. Yeah, yeah,

Anna:

Yeah. Pretty much. And yeah, Avoiding injuries is a classic one.'cause we kind of spoke about that last week. Even to that extent of being able to notice when something is a bit painful or uncomfortable. Yeah. Like that's a good example of it.

Phoebe:

Yeah. should we chat about the science actually behind stress and how it affects our nervous system? I think so.

Anna:

I think so.

Phoebe:

Hmm. So the fight or flight response a lot of you may have heard of is your body's built in alarm system for danger, which is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system. So the fight or flight was sort of made for times where it's

Anna:

yeah.

Phoebe:

a threat is like a wild animal or something that's literally like life

Anna:

threatening. It's Yeah. Literally getting you ready to fight for your life.

Phoebe:

Yeah. But like in more modern terms, it's literally just any stressful situation. Our brain sends signals to release adrenaline and other stress hormones.

Anna:

Yes, the in actually interesting part of this as well is it doesn't even need to be a stressful situation. It can be thinking about something stressful. Yeah. how humans have evolved to that extent, where it's we can be completely safe, not threatened at all, but we think of something, you know, that might be coming up in the next few weeks and we can get a spike of these kind of hormones. So now it's almost indistinguishable from. whether you're

Phoebe:

you're actually under threat or

Anna:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phoebe:

what are the physical changes that actually happen?

Anna:

yeah, so there's basically acute changes that you can notice, which sort of happens straight away. You might notice things like your heart racing, your breathing speeds up, your muscles tense, your senses become sharper. but basically what you might notice is you might feel a bit more keyed up. I would say I often experience stress as. Energy in a sense. Like I feel focused. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't need to feel, it actually isn't inherently a negative thing. Like it actually is

Phoebe:

Yeah. It can be

Anna:

to be like focus, stay awake. be prepared. Yeah. The problem is when it becomes more chronic than acute because as we were saying before, It's not like you're in danger, you're out of danger. Your body can reset. We have the ability with our minds to kind of bring that sense of danger or stress into every single part of our lives. And that's when, you get the more like chronic, issues with stress, I suppose.'cause we're not designed to be having high levels of cortisol for long periods of time, for

Phoebe:

yeah. Like really it was sort of designed to have that and then you'd obviously come back Yeah. Down kind of thing. Whereas now when it's more just sort of day to day stresses. Yes. And as you were saying, it becomes chronic. It's just your body actually never comes

Anna:

Back down,

Phoebe:

just like constantly in that state of stress. Yeah.

Anna:

It's quite interesting, like to come back to my, aura data. There's one, data point that it gives you, which is like daytime stress levels. And I'm always surprised I can have a day that I'm like, that was the funnest. Great day. I loved everything that happened at work. Had a great run in the morning. Saw friends after work, like I feel so happy and you know, satisfied. And then my aura data will be like, you had a really stressful day. And I'm like, I don't rem Yeah. All the time. I'm like, I don't remember feeling stressed at all. But actually my bodi body cues were probably in a heightened state all

Phoebe:

Yeah,

Anna:

like you're with friends, you're thinking about things like you're doing you're still in that sort of, aroused state. State.

Phoebe:

Yeah. So, Stress can actually then distort and dull cues, which may, generally speaking, be the sensors that tell you that you are tired or you are stressed. is'cause a couple of different reasons. So, one is that it can dull hunger cues. So when stress kicks in, your sympathetic nervous system floods your body with adrenaline, which naturally suppresses your appetite. your body obviously thinks survival is more important than eating So hunger signals get put on hold. If stress does last a while, the long term stress hormone of cortisol takes over. So this can kind of go both ways. It can either decrease. Your appetite or for some people it causes stress eating, especially cravings like high fat, sugary foods. Mm-hmm.

Anna:

yeah. It does. And and it's funny'cause we talk about stress impacting your hunger. Jess Rothwell, dietician who's been on the show a few times, she has spoken about how, running also distorts hunger signals. Mm. So straight after a run, you are hard run, your body won't feel like eating. And that's actually the exact same thing. It's'cause it's diverted all your energy and hormones and so on are going to your muscles, not your like gut. And so that system just isn't ready. But actually you really

Phoebe:

when you really, really need to be eating. Yeah.

Anna:

The other big one is tiredness. I feel like this. Is where I see it, or it's almost the opposite of tiredness. I feel like even though as regular listeners will know, I don't always get my eight hours sleep. I don't often feel sleepy. Apart from at times when my iron is really low and I get a little bit exhausted and wanna fall asleep at work, but most of the time, like I can sleep six hours. I'm not be tired at all if

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

day at work. and so in the same sense, that Anna was talking about when you're stressed that cortisol acts like a temporary energy boost, This is actually a really good thing. Like it keeps you alert and wired, which can help you do things like, finish that work task that you need to, like, if there is an immediate need for that, it can actually be really beneficial. But that then can basically impair your ability to actually like. Get a good night's sleep, follow a normal routine with your sleep patterns, which can then lead to like, a whole host of other issues. Yeah. And actually have a snowball effect with your stress. Yeah. In the first

Phoebe:

which I said to you off mic before,'cause I remember last year when I was trying to do so much and then I'd go to sleep and then I sometimes wouldn't be able to sleep. Or I sometimes wake up like I'd just be restless and a bit

Anna:

like, yeah,

Phoebe:

which I never normally am. Like normally I sleep like a log and I I remember thinking like, oh, I'm just not that tired. But now in hindsight. I dunno, everything was obviously

Anna:

elevated. Elevated, so then

Phoebe:

which is a good thing in the short term'cause I could just keep going. Yes. But then you obviously at some point crash and burn.

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

I,

Anna:

I, I've experienced that even this week. with just lots on at work and so on. I've been noticing my sleep. I've been waking up heaps falling back, sleep that throughout the night. And I do think that's that elevated level of Yeah. stress hormones I suppose.

Phoebe:

Yeah. you can also, can physical symptoms where you kind of hear people throw around having a stress headache. It, causes your muscles to tighten, especially around your neck and jaw. So that's why people can kind of grind their teeth quite a lot. but then I think the like tension around your neck then causes the actual headache. Yeah.

Anna:

I've been told I grind my teeth when I sleep. I've heard that. Yeah.

Phoebe:

As in I haven't heard you

Anna:

go,

Phoebe:

I've heard that you use the crash

Anna:

Yes, have heard from Richmond.

Phoebe:

God, it's loud. I can hear it all the way

Anna:

all. Grinding. But even on nights where I'm like, I swear I'm not stressed.

Phoebe:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. another physical symptom is digestive issues. So it can kind of go either way, but stress does slow digestion.'cause obviously, again, like you were saying, straight after a hard run, you're not necessarily hungry that's because all of everything's sort of like going to your muscles. It's the same thing. Your digestive system isn't the main focus. Yeah. so yeah, that can be altered in either way.

Anna:

I think the other thing that compounds all of this is caffeine. because when we're more stressed, sleeping less, I think we leverage caffeine a lot more to help us manage those energy levels throughout the day. And I think you then get, well, a big like. Boost of energy, which then crashed, but also because of the half life of caffeine, which I'm sure we've spoken about on the podcast before, caffeine actually stays in your system for so long that can contribute well A, contribute to the poor sleep B, contribute to the mixed messages from your body in terms of hunger, digestive issues, it almost is an accelerant for all those different effects.

Phoebe:

Yeah. And I, feel like it's this false sense of. Okay. Energy. Yeah, exactly. Whereas

Anna:

It's actually muting that cue of

Phoebe:

what's actually going

Anna:

which is tough because you don't wanna just sit through the day feeling exhausted. No.

Phoebe:

And also, coffee tastes so good. Yeah,

Anna:

Well I, well, you were saying before you feel like you used coffee last year a lot

Phoebe:

Yeah. Times. Yeah. I used to just crash so badly at about 3:00 PM at work to the point where I genuinely thought I was gonna fall asleep, and then I'd have. Another coffee and then maybe another one, and then I'd kind of be good to go again, which is just clearly muting.

Anna:

Yeah, my

Phoebe:

actual, how my body was feeling and I was just then running off caffeine for the rest of the day.

Anna:

I actually think I do not the same thing with tea, but I definitely use tea

Phoebe:

as a bit of a

Anna:

but I always try and I try and stop after lunch or like I'll have one at lunchtime or whatever.'cause I'm like, I really don't want it to

Phoebe:

Impact, yeah. Yeah. But

Anna:

the mornings I'll notice if I don't have a tea, I can feel it. I feel like they underestimate the impact of tea. Yeah, tea. My contribution.

Phoebe:

to our point before we spoke about like being tired, but also wide in a sense. And I feel like the low energy can kind of come into it, which I guess is also linked in with the, caffeine. the constant stress keeps your nervous system in overdrive, which over a long period of time, just like completely zaps your energy. So you might be super tired, but also struggle to just sit down and relax.

Anna:

What do you,

Phoebe:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Anna:

well, I guess now you are in a, better state than you were last year with the stress. what do you. Reckon looking back was some signals that you could have paid attention to?

Phoebe:

definitely, that I remember, I'd be like, okay, I am gonna sit down or on the weekend, lie down on the couch for a little bit or something, and I'd genuinely quiet. Fidgety iss wrong, but I'd just be a bit restless. Yeah. And kind of wanna get

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

Where I sort of thought of that as, I don't know, thinking like, oh, I don't really need to lie down, but I think it was actually the opposite. Kind of the opposite. I also think you get like a few like mood changes as well. Like I sort of said before I felt like I was just a bit more narky or just a bit more irritable you know, like things constantly go wrong during the day. Not necessarily, they're not big things, but something happens or I'd just get annoyed or I'd get, I remember I got way more annoyed at other drivers.

Anna:

Oh, okay. That's a

Phoebe:

Yeah. It was bizarre. Yeah. Whereas I didn't really think anything of it at the time, but now looking back, I'm like, Hmm,

Anna:

yeah, I, I, that really resonates I reckon I get less positive. think I feel more negative about

Phoebe:

things. About things. Yeah.

Anna:

feel like my motivation takes a hit. I'm less motivated to push myself to do, which is something I normally really love doing. Yeah. Yeah. But when I am feeling a little bit burnt out, I'm like not motivated to

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

and, but I guess, yeah. This is what is really hard is how to detangle these things. is that because you are. Stressed and you need to relax or actually will getting out and doing that be something which helps you feel less stressed.

Phoebe:

well, I feel like that's, maybe we should start talking about how to actually try to like reconnect with your body under

Anna:

stress.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yeah, so this obviously takes time and also practice, but I think even small steps will help you feel more grounded and in control, which will hopefully over a longer period of time, lead to better outcomes for you. so number one, Prioritize restorative activities. We have spoken about this this year about at some point over the weekend trying to do something that is actually gonna be relaxing for yourself, even if it's just for an hour or two. and I think making time to not do much or do something that fills your cup in a sense.

Anna:

That's not scrolling on your phone.

Phoebe:

That's not scrolling in your phone and not necessarily, improving in some sort of way

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

admin tasks

Anna:

is like for the sake of

Phoebe:

literally Yeah, Yeah. It's like literally putting yourself in timeout. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

I mean, other kind of classic practices that are designed to help you reconnect with your body under stress, which I do really believe in are those, deep breathing, meditation, yoga. I've really found with a lot of these, they are. Skills. They're not something that you can just do one off and Okay. I feel way better, like something like yoga. I feel like it's only when I'm going regularly, almost every week. That you regular. Yeah.'cause you need to be able to get in that head space. Yeah, and I'm, I've, I mean, I've never tried it really with meditation, but I've heard it's the same thing. of course it's hard when you. Start off to understand it and understand what it's meant to feel like in your mind and how to train. But like anything you just need to practice, make time for it and, practice it as well. Have you ever done like a breath work class or anything like that?

Phoebe:

No, I haven't Have you?

Anna:

I reckon we should give one a go.

Phoebe:

have them at, uh,

Anna:

inner. Yeah. I know.

Phoebe:

Maybe we should try,

Anna:

I think we should.

Phoebe:

of my colleagues was actually saying that she often goes to inner studios and does the breathwork stuff and really,

Anna:

she like them? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are quite, wait. Are you a little bit scared of doing one? Someone who rerun with, I forget who it is, is like I'm too scared to do it.

Phoebe:

Scared In what sense? I

Anna:

know. I sometimes worry that it'll be a bit like, hyperventilating.

Phoebe:

yeah. Okay., I can picture that. I was more thinking you'd say something along the lines of that you just can't do it.

Anna:

Yeah. Like you're trying to hold your breath for too

Phoebe:

Yeah. No, I'm all mean, like, you can't like sit still and

Anna:

just Oh no.

Phoebe:

which I, I find that. I did

Anna:

Well,'cause some of the classes are 90 minutes. Yeah.

Phoebe:

that's a long time to just be sitting there. Yeah. But

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

obviously maybe you should

Anna:

Yeah. That's true.

Phoebe:

Yeah. The more that that scares

Anna:

you Yeah. The more you probably need to do it.

Phoebe:

I've actually never done this, but a few of my friends do it and I think it can be quite a good practice if you do it consistently, is journaling. Yeah. And it's writing down your feelings. Do you journal.

Anna:

I haven't for, I reckon 18 months, but I would say like the 18 years before that I journaled every year like I, or throughout the year. Every year. Yeah. I have not necessarily every week, maybe every couple weeks, and sometimes I'd be really religious about it and do it every day, but I do. Really wanna bring it back because

Phoebe:

I

Anna:

like a lot of this, interpreting your cues for, just to use a specific example of like listening to your body, we almost just don't give ourself time to reflect on how are we going in our lives right now. Mm-hmm. What is happening? How do we feel about the things that are happening? Yeah. Like take that time to step back from things and reflect on it

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

we don't really make time for it, I suppose. Whereas Yeah. Journaling. I at least just used as a space to just like reflect on my life, whatever was going on. Yeah. Often I would literally start by writing like what I was up to. Yeah. And then it would turn, as I was writing, it would turn into what I thought about those

Phoebe:

things. Yeah.

Anna:

Like, I did this, here's how. And then it would be like, oh, okay. Actually how do I feel about that? kind of like therapy, but just with yourself and your journal. Yeah. But a lot of it. Do you ever have things that are hanging over your head that you just don't wanna look at? Mm. Like, you know, that need to think about it, but, but Don't think about it. I know that that's hanging over me. Not even task wise. It might be like a conversation that you need to have with a friend or, or you're just nervous or worried about

Phoebe:

something. Or even like processing thoughts about how you're actually

Anna:

like journaling was. Whenever I realized I was doing that, I'd be like, okay, sit down and write about it. I'd be like, okay, how do I feel about this? Why am I not addressing

Phoebe:

her? Yeah. Right.

Anna:

And it was such a good cathartic practice. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I reckon Journaling's, that's a good one. And I've never done like running journaling, but I know some people after they run, they'll write how did I feel that run? Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably more serious runners do it. Yeah. Yeah. But it'd be interesting to do. I

Phoebe:

I feel like that would be pretty cool just to have for future reference. To then go back and be like, what did I used to do? Because obviously your memory sort of gets scattered and you dunno what was what. But it's in the same vein that we enjoy getting Strava memories

Anna:

of Yes.

Phoebe:

Like it'd be cool sort of looking back on

Anna:

it would be you

Phoebe:

and you enjoyed.

Anna:

Yeah. I think it's anything that, because a lot of these are kind of subconscious cues,

Phoebe:

Mm.

Anna:

Anything that forces you to reflect on yourself Yeah. And how you're going, like step back and objectively think about it. Anything like that I

Phoebe:

Yeah. It's literally, yeah. I was gonna say, everything that we're saying is like that time for Being in your own thoughts and like reflecting. Yes. people might be listening to this and be like, okay, well how does that relate to me knowing. If my body actually is under stress, but it's like all of these things I feel would bring you a little bit closer to being, like homeostasis, I guess. And The further you get away from it, the harder it is to come back. Whereas if you can just like come back a little bit, once a week or something, then maybe in turn you might be a bit like, oh actually, I am struggling

Anna:

with this. Yeah.

Phoebe:

or this. maybe in order to listen to my body I need to kind of like take a few

Anna:

back. Yes, So I guess a lot of those signals, they're symptoms. So it's like your body's, you're feeling tired because like you're feeling sleepy because you're not getting enough sleep. And if you are stressed, you're not feeling those, signals. But I also think we could just kind of objectively look at how much sleep we're getting or, um, look at what's going on in our lives and try and objectively recognize is this a more stressful period than usual for

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

Um. Or like, data that we're getting again from our, smart watches. Like anything like that, that's tracking things. be a bit of a detective in your own life and think about like, okay, if I was to detach myself from my life for a minute, what would I tell myself? Yeah. Like what would I say about my

Phoebe:

myself? Yeah. You had this idea about putting all of our data from your A ring or

Anna:

I really wanna do

Phoebe:

into chat g bt

Anna:

would love to see what

Phoebe:

am I healthy?

Anna:

Give me feedback. Yeah. I actually would love to do this'cause I feel like my Aura gum and like all these things, they're obviously programmed to be really nice to you. You know, they're really positive and I really appreciate that. I

Phoebe:

think that

Anna:

a nice thing.

Phoebe:

I honestly appreciate how kind you are to me, aura.

Anna:

I actually do,'cause I thought it'd be, would add a

Phoebe:

Oh yeah, it'd be, well, it'd

Anna:

But I would love to like, I would love to export all that data, somehow upload it to chat GBT and tell it some information about me and then say like, rip in, give me some critical feedback. Say the things that no one in my life is saying. That would be

Phoebe:

So yeah, I

Anna:

next week,

Phoebe:

let's do that. Watch this space. alright, so I hope that we have kind of explained why sometimes it actually can be challenging to quote unquote listen to your body.

Anna:

I'm actually, I'm interested like at the end of this discussion or now that we're kind of rounding out this discussion, like, do you think listen to your body is good advice?

Phoebe:

I think it is. Yeah. But I can see sometimes where some people are too far gone for that.

Anna:

Mm. And.

Phoebe:

And I don't think at the moment, I feel like I can definitely listen to my body. but I feel like at times, and like as I've said, like last year, I couldn't really listen to my body because my body was muting. I think Use that as an indicator, Rather than diagnostic about it. Because I do think that at times it can kind of fool you. Yeah.

Anna:

Yeah. You're, I mean, it's kind of like a nice thing to say, it makes sense. Of course, that's what you should do. But yeah, I tend to agree. I think it's actually probably not that useful I just feel like every person who's stressed do you know? Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like it's just so normal to feel so busy and so overwhelmed, like all the time. I.

Phoebe:

I don't know. Yeah, maybe it is, or should that be normal? Like I definitely know some friends who are way better at. Putting their own wellbeing first Intentionally. Yeah. And intentionally saying no to things or not doing as much.

Anna:

Well, that's almost the goal is like, how do you design your life, set up your life so that you don't get to a stage where your burnout is muting? What your body's trying to tell you. and you do need to be intentional about that and think about it and not just hope that one day you'll get less busy. Yeah. And your body will start speaking to you again. Yes.

Phoebe:

Speak to me.

Anna:

me again. Speak to me.

Phoebe:

Um,

Anna:

quiet for so long. Phoebe,

Phoebe:

can you believe we're gonna be leasing up the shoes and running in the Nike after dark tour in just 19 days?

Anna:

know. I am. Seriously so excited. I think we should do some quick fire questions. What are you most excited about?

Phoebe:

Definitely most excited to see so many women at night running through the streets of Sydney and also the post event celebrations. They sound absolutely so, so cool. and also excited for the bra fitting that we're gonna do as well. And also the expo for the Thursday and Friday before the race. okay. How has your training been going and how are you feeling for the race?

Anna:

So I mean, as we know, my training's been a little bit up and down. but I did a longing this morning. I'm feeling good for the distance. I also feel reassured by the fact that I know, even if it gets hard, I just really think the vibes and the atmosphere will be amazing and will get me through. Okay. Last question. What has been your favorite product to run in over the last couple months?

Phoebe:

Definitely the Viro eighteens, I feel like I'm wearing them literally every day. so comfortable with Max Cushioning, which I love for everyday running. And also the sleek bright crimson colorway makes me look stylish for the post run

Anna:

It sure does. Uh, if you can't tell, we are so excited for April 12th We'll be taking to the Sydney streets to kick off the Nike after duck tour. Nike's global race series being held in six cities around the world,

Phoebe:

A massive thanks to Nike for putting on such a cool event and for helping bring this episode to life.

Anna:

Okay, so last week we launched a new segment, conversations with Friends, and we gave an example of a live debate that I'd been having with

Phoebe:

a live debate

Anna:

my little brother Joe, about, should you plan your runs based on time or distance? Um, I have to say we did a poll. The majority of people said they planned based on distance, which they knew would happen, but we then gave people an option to add in some thoughts. We must have got, we got hundreds it was, it was clearly, really struck a chord and most of the comments were in on my side of the, anyway, that's

Phoebe:

not, yes, but I would argue that that's because you are better at putting your case forward than me.

Anna:

Um, or then Joe who was not

Phoebe:

Yeah, yeah.

Anna:

Yeah. But then you are such a starer. You took a screenshot of the poll results, set up a WhatsApp group with me and Joe. I am like, hmm.

Phoebe:

I know because I felt like I needed to get one back. So I, I think the exact term that I used was the poll speaks for itself. Um, because there's something about, I love watching you and, well, I mean, I only really ever see you and Joe, but like you and your siblings beef, because I feel like you are, you're very good at speaking, at and I just like to. Throw a little bit of a little

Anna:

a little grenade in the, as

Phoebe:

Yes, exactly.

Anna:

but people did also submit their own long run debates topics and we absolutely loved reading and we thought we'd actually talk through some of them live. first one someone said is when to have the first gel.

Phoebe:

Yeah. So I presume this was on a long run.

Anna:

Yeah, well, yeah. Or if someone's running longer during the week, think there is a recommendation of like after 4 30, 5 40 minutes when you have your first one, but I. Understand the challenge.'cause I had one with me this morning'cause we were doing a 90 minute run. I wanted to have one halfway through. I got halfway through and I was like, I feel fine. the gel's disgusting so I won't do it. And then literally like, and I got reckon we got an hour and 10 minutes in and I was like, I wish I'd just had the gel.'cause now I'm like, I can feel my energy dropping. So I feel like the challenge is forcing it down before you feel like,

Phoebe:

yeah, before it's too late. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 45, I'm bang on 45

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah.'cause you don't wanna have to be forcing it down like every half hour. It just feels

Phoebe:

Yeah. I also just think I always have in my head you are doing this less so for now, but more so for your recovery.

Anna:

For the recovery. Yes.

Phoebe:

So I reckon, I reckon 45. Another one. Why are we so bloated all the time? Can I get a hell Yeah.

Anna:

I just love this one.'cause I can just imagine a group of girls on their run just being like, why the heck

Phoebe:

I'm not intolerant to anything? Why am I

Anna:

all the time. I don't think we have an

Phoebe:

answer? I don't have an answer, but I also like that one.

Anna:

I feel like I don't get bloated that often. I was about to say, not

Phoebe:

Okay.

Anna:

the most hated girl. That's nice. No, as in I I, every now and then it'll happen. I'll be like, you just checking,

Phoebe:

See, I'm bloated already. Now it's 1230.

Anna:

She's already bloated. I feel like it's probably like a time of the month thing for me. Yeah. I reckon is the only thing I can tie it back to when it

Phoebe:

does happen. Mm.

Anna:

but I have to say. Oh my God. I was bloated yesterday. I was bloated at work and I was wearing tight jeans and I was doing interviews and I was just like, I'm

Phoebe:

I'm

Anna:

exploding, like out of these jeans. I was just like, what is going on? But I don't know what I would attribute it to. Like it is very

Phoebe:

yeah, I, there's no pattern in mind. I'm just constantly bloated. I was, you know, I did go out for, sorry, this is off on a tangent. I did go out for dinner with my family a few weeks ago, and my brother by the end of the night was like, oh, careful. Like you're, I was wearing jeans. And he's like, your, but your buns aren't undo. And I was like, yeah, I know. I was like, I undid it. And he was like, what?

Anna:

You have to, there's nothing worse than being locked

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

Or the other thing is like wearing a tight dress and feeling worse.

Phoebe:

that is the worst. That is honestly, I feel for, it's a Saturday. I feel for anyone. I know this will come out on the Monday, but, feel for anyone going to like a wedding today or something, and they're bloated in like a silk tight dress. My thoughts go out to you. Okay, next conversation is my friend plays slow ballads on her long runs. This is this absurd behavior.

Anna:

It is a little bit absurd. What is an example of a slow ballad, do you think?

Phoebe:

I would say a Taylor Swift 10 minute version.

Anna:

Okay, so you think that's totally

Phoebe:

fine? Oh, that is music to my ears, honestly. yeah, I actually think on a long runs because I feel I am with the friend, sorry to whoever put this in, but I feel like long runs, you're not, you shouldn't be sort of up and about going hard, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it should be quite relaxing and I feel like it's quite therapeutic listening

Anna:

listen to what ever is. Well, people listen to podcasts when they run,

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yeah. So

Anna:

that said, I don't think I've done it before and I, I can't imagine it would get me like up and about.

Phoebe:

No, but I think that's the point though. I feel like on your long run, you don't really wanna be up and

Anna:

I still want something that's gonna give me energy.

Phoebe:

Mm. Okay. So example of a slow ballad. Oh yeah.

Anna:

Oh yeah. I feel like it'd be sad

Phoebe:

Oh, okay. Mm. Okay.

Anna:

Not tail Swift.

Phoebe:

no, you're beautiful by James Blunt.

Anna:

Oh, it's not okay. Definitely not. That is absurd behavior. Imagine. Imagine listening

Phoebe:

or can't help Falling in love by Elvis Presley.

Anna:

oh, I mean, a beautiful song, but.

Phoebe:

If you're walking down the aisle, maybe

Anna:

Literally.

Phoebe:

Um, all right. What is the food you crave most post run?

Anna:

Can you guess my answer?

Phoebe:

You are gonna say a hot water or

Anna:

that makes me sound like a psycho. No.

Phoebe:

No, smoothie

Anna:

toast. Eggs

Phoebe:

on toast straight after the run,

Anna:

Post run, just like in the hours afterwards. Yeah. Okay. and the food not asking specifically for food, shame me. You're like, really? Wow.

Phoebe:

Wow. I've never seen you

Anna:

I would only go for a juice post. I did have a really nice

Phoebe:

juice. Yeah. That's why. And I remember you being like, oh God, this

Anna:

so,

Phoebe:

good.

Anna:

it was so good. but no, honestly, oh, actually that h pumpkin toasty was unreal. What about you?

Phoebe:

I would say if it's a hot day, I know it's technically not food, but a Rockies or this, like really? You know what a really thick smoothie that you have to use a spoon for because it's so thick. Yeah. Okay. Mm.

Anna:

That is, you, you, you're thinking of like being satiated almost

Phoebe:

Like a bowl of, yeah. Yeah. And maybe like a. Liter of Gatorade. Yeah. Um, on a cold day, I reckon. Just a, a really good toasty. Not the one that I had today.

Anna:

You know what? They used to be the best poster on food ever that you speak. Cafe and Bronte. Beach Sydney called Three Blue Ducks. I don't think it's there anymore. But they used to do this, BRE Burrito, which had like scrambled eggs, halmi, fried potato vegetables, hummus, um, avocado, yum. Like literally all just scrambled in and is the nicest thing of all time.

Phoebe:

Yeah. I would be intrigued to know what everyone, the food that everyone craves posts on.'cause I reckon there would be so many different answers. Yeah. Maybe. Let's ask. Mm. all right. would you rather run in humidity or heavy rain?

Anna:

This is such a tough one. I feel like it depends on the type of run.'cause I really don't mind some heavy rain.

Phoebe:

You just gotta answer this. Just running full stop. Long

Anna:

run humidity.

Phoebe:

Mm.

Anna:

Maybe just humidity. Humidity. I like, I quite like humidity. Yeah. But I like heavy rain too. They're both a pleasure.

Phoebe:

I would love heavy rain. You just feel so alive. Running in the

Anna:

rain. Yeah.

Phoebe:

starts like raining,

Anna:

Okay. As a one off heavy rain. If it was every day. Oh, you could only run in one of them for the rest of your life. Yeah. Choose humidity.

Phoebe:

okay, last one

Anna:

is more of a,

Phoebe:

more. We just thought this was funny because I feel like running solo, you can so relate to this. I got stung by a bee and debated with myself if I was anaphylactic or just struggling. I was in fact just struggling.

Anna:

So relatable,

Phoebe:

relatable. So relatable. I think we'll leave it there.

Anna:

it there. I think we will. Thank you Teron. Who submitted them? We'll, we might put up another, poll this week, or not poll question

Phoebe:

books. Yeah.

Anna:

And you can. Submit your long run topics we wanna hear. What are you chatting

Phoebe:

Yeah, yeah. As always. Thank you so much.

Anna:

Thank you so much. I

Phoebe:

sticking with us.

Anna:

I really hope everyone got something out of today. If you did give us a follow, give us a like subscribe you people.

Phoebe:

You're doing great sweetie. Alright. That's it. We can't wait to be in your ears next week. Bye.

Anna:

So wait, sorry. Just see how you're talking right

Phoebe:

now.

Anna:

Like this. Sorry. So when you talk like this, like you have to like talk into it you

Phoebe:

I'm just being Yes, mom.

Anna:

You're literally talking.

Phoebe:

Yeah, I know. I dunno how

Anna:

I literally just like you do.

Phoebe:

do,

Anna:

I

Phoebe:

literally saw my,

Anna:

you doing.

Phoebe:

I need a bib.