Listening to your body-not always as easy as it sounds

Helllooooo lovely people!

 Ever had someone tell you to just, “listen to your body”? In today’s episode, we look at how stress can make it difficult to keep an ear out for those cues and give you guys some tools to help reconnect with your bodies.

 And you guys loved our new segment, “Conversations with Friends,” and we loved having a giggle and giving our hot takes on your long-run debates at the end of the episode.

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

 Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Transcript

Phoebe 0:00

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

Anna 0:05

This episode is brought to you by Nike's after dark tour, Nike's global race series starting in Sydney on April 12th.

Phoebe 0:15

Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast, and community for your everyday Amateur. Hello, Phoebe. Hello and hello listeners.

Anna 0:24

for the main topic Today we are talking about the advice that lives rent free in most of our heads as runners, which is listen to your body. We are going to unpack whether that's actually useful advice and understand how things like stress work and life in general can alter your body's cues and signals in such a way that makes that advice extremely challenging to follow.

Phoebe 0:45

Exactly. Have you ever been so stressed that you can't really tell if you're hungry, tired, Arthur or Martha? We love the ethos of listen to your body, but often feel like our bodies are in fact good at hiding the fact that they're struggling. So we thought we would discuss what actually happens when your body's under stress, why it can be difficult to acknowledge, and how to reconnect with your body whilst under stress.

Anna 1:06

We are then going to finish up the episode with the brand new segment, Conversations with Friends. We are going to settle, some listener debates that were had on long runs last week. I think we've got like four or five, so we'll power through

Phoebe 1:19

them. Yeah. first of all though, let's kick it off with our best and worst runs. Phoebe, give me your worst run this week.

Anna 1:26

My worst run. This is such an honor thing to say, but it's a non run.

Phoebe 1:30

Well

Anna 1:31

Oh. Well only because I was meant to race on Thursday night, so I was meant to have my second 5K track race. Yeah. And so as a result, I tapered for it. You mentally prepare yourself. Carb loaded a little bit that

Phoebe 1:45

Yeah. I feel like it's also in your head all

Anna 1:47

It hangs over you. And even the days leading up to it. And I think the combination of the TID post niggle that I'd been managing and the taper, basically, I spoke to my coach and we were just like, he said, let's just, Not really run much between now and the races is on the weekend, so just do 30 minutes Monday. 20 minutes Wednesday, that's it. Yeah. And so I'd tapered and I'd barely run on the weekend, so I'd tapered so hard. and then what happened was there was a chance of a storm. And so at midday on Thursday, they messaged us all saying the race is canceled.'cause they might have some lightning. And I totally get it. Like I'm sure that's just in their policy, like they wouldn't have had a

Phoebe 2:25

Yeah, it makes sense. It's frustrating though because it was

Anna 2:28

fine. It was fine.

Phoebe 2:29

night.

Anna 2:29

Yeah. There was no,

Phoebe 2:30

I looked outside and the wind sort of died down.

Anna 2:33

wind died

Phoebe 2:33

calm and it was quite nice and I thought, oh gosh, you almost, if something's canceled,

Anna 2:38

you want it to,

Phoebe 2:39

that it's like justified. Yes,

Anna 2:41

exactly. So that was a bit disappointing. I did try and rally a group to still do a 5K run that night. Yeah. but to be fair, by the time, the end of the day came round, I was like, oh, this is not, I'm not vibing this. you and I had a meeting early that morning and then I got to work, did a few things, looked at my watch and it 8:30 AM. I was like, I am so tired already and the race isn't

Phoebe 3:04

hours and

Anna 3:05

and I have such a big day at work. I was like, this

Phoebe 3:08

like, how on earth am I

Anna 3:09

I literally was like, I dunno how this is gonna work.

Phoebe 3:11

maybe they organizers you, you are gonna have a hectic day. And we're like, you know what, you

Anna 3:15

give her a night off. Yep. but no, a few of us met at the track the next morning. Yeah. To do a little 5K tempo. I actually just did a 2K'cause again, Gary, my coach was like, if you don't need to do 5K, let's just. Keep it shorter to save your, um, tip post. Yes. But yes, that was very disappointing. Yeah, because they're not rescheduling it either, so I feel like I still need

Phoebe 3:35

That's sad that they, yeah. They've just canceled it and not

Anna 3:38

Yeah,

Phoebe 3:39

Yeah. There'll be another one.

Anna 3:40

What was your worst running related activity this

Phoebe 3:44

Mine was a run, was a

Anna 3:45

it was a run,

Phoebe 3:46

Phoebe style. Um, on Tuesday morning I set with one of our girlfriends, Mel, as people probably know, a lot of the time on Tuesdays we do a session, but obviously just jogging at the moment. So we met up for a little jog. It is in Melbourne. Super dark at the moment because it's kind of that weird time where daylight savings is still a thing, but it's getting a lot darker, so it's like still at almost like 7:00

Anna 4:12

It's so dark.

Phoebe 4:13

crazy. Anyway, so it was super dark. We were just jogging along money, our own business, and. I tripped.

Anna 4:19

Oh no.

Phoebe 4:19

yeah, I fell over. Yeah. There was this, you know how when the concrete or the path kind of splits a little bit from a tree root? Yeah. It was like that, but I hadn't seen it. Yeah. And it wasn't even that bad. I just had to I don't know. Obviously it has to be a worst run.

Anna 4:34

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 4:35

I didn't break any skin and Mel said that she gave me an eight out of 10 for my fall because I somehow managed to. Put both of my hands out evenly and then just kind of roll to the side. Oh, you

Anna 4:48

like absorbed it. Well, yeah. Which is so

Phoebe 4:49

Which is so crazy. I don't know how I did that.

Anna 4:52

Just instincts. Anyway,

Phoebe 4:54

I then we were sort of standing over and she was like making sure I was okay and we were kind of laughing about it a little bit. And then there was this woman and man who were running behind us. Then she tripped over the same thing. Over the same thing anyway. And we're like, oh, you okay? Had a little joke about it. And then Mel and I continued on a run and I was saying, you know what? I feel like running and tripping when it's just the two of you is a lot better than if you're in a group. Because I feel like it's almost like the people around you, it's like a bit of a bruise to your ego and it's a bit more of a big deal. And it's just the two of you, you're like a whatever

Anna 5:31

like, yeah. No one knows about

Phoebe 5:33

Yeah. Literally no one knows. Yeah, yeah. Well, but then I was, and we were laughing. We were like, yeah, nobody saw, and then we get this Instagram DM on cheeky being like, Hey, Anna, hope you're okay after your fall. I was the one that fell behind you.

Anna 5:49

She

Phoebe 5:49

She was like, I was trying to work out what you felt, what you tripped over. And then I tripped over myself.

Anna 5:54

tri. So you've actually kind of caused a cheeky listener to have a fall

Phoebe 5:57

To have a fall. To have a fall. Exactly. So Shout out to Cara who also fell on Tuesday morning. I hope you're okay.

Anna 6:05

Name a shame.

Phoebe 6:08

but yeah, that was my worst run of the week. What was, gimme your best. I think I said to you before I know what it is. It's this morning.

Anna 6:14

you'll have to wait and see, but bingo, yes. This morning was such a nice run. So, to set the scene for anyone who, so right now it's Saturday morning in Melbourne. We're recording a little bit later than usual It

Phoebe 6:28

Ladies of Ledger on a

Anna 6:29

Yeah, I know, I know.

Phoebe 6:31

Who are we?

Anna 6:32

we, um, it is the nice ast day. Like it's autumnal,

Phoebe 6:36

It's mm,

Anna 6:37

Blue skies, no wind. Just a perfect morning. I did about 90 minutes, so it felt like a good, long run. Couldn't feel my niggle at all. I think it's just gone now, which is great. We did this beautiful loop, around the trails, around, um, RAB and Park in Melbourne. Just didn't, we barely saw anyone out. it was so quiet that Yara Boulevard is so quiet on a Saturday morning. Yeah. Just kind of cruised along. Did a loop picked up you and your partner Dave and my partner Sean and Ted,

Phoebe 7:10

And Ted, yep.

Anna 7:10

And did another loop with you guys.

Phoebe 7:13

it was really nice. Really nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 7:15

Sat around afterwards I had, I got the most delicious, toasty pumpkin and Hulu mi. You were very jealous. I was

Phoebe 7:21

very jealous.

Anna 7:22

Sniffing it. You, you got a triple decker?

Phoebe 7:25

Yeah, well sadly, this is anyone that owns a cafe, so. So we went to this cafe that it is actually really nice, but they don't do their toasties with gluten-free bread because they say they're pre-made. But I'm like, surely you still have the ingredients? And I really wanted a pumpkin and cheese

Anna 7:40

Yeah.

Phoebe 7:41

anyway, they said they can do an egg and bacon sandwich for me, which I was like, oh, that's cool. But also what's the difference between that and just making another like pumpkin and cheese on. But anyway, it comes out and it's like this, the pieces of bread are literally five centimeters. In length.

Anna 7:59

Your

Phoebe 8:00

They were so small, but then obviously they've been like, oh, well shit, these pieces of bread are like, literally, it's like a piece of bread for an ant. And so then they've triple decade it, so it was like this club sandwich, so

Anna 8:13

tall

Phoebe 8:14

Oh.

Anna 8:14

like, it was very funny watching your face when you were trying to

Phoebe 8:17

the gluten-free bread was just clearly from the supermarket. They'd gotten it out of the freezer and I was just like, do better if you're charging me$17. Yeah, do better.

Anna 8:27

better.

Phoebe 8:29

I don't wanna say the cafe

Anna 8:31

Oh, no, no, no. Because it's a lovely

Phoebe 8:32

It is a lovely cafe. Yeah, it is. For some.

Anna 8:37

is for sell. Um, what was your best round of the

Phoebe 8:40

Um, my best run of the week was not a run, but in, in the same vein as it's so strange. So my best and worst have both been solely with our friend Melanie. was so nice. We met. That's so nice. I think because normally when I go swimming on a Wednesday

Anna 8:58

yeah.

Phoebe 8:59

obviously love it, but you know, you try to get there by six and then out by seven and that kind of thing. And we try to swim two ks. whereas it honestly, statistically it really wasn't that different. But I feel like it just had a way more relaxed feel. Nice. We got in at, we were gonna meet at six 30, but ended up getting in at six 40. We just splashed around for a

Anna 9:19

bit. Yeah.

Phoebe 9:20

Yeah. And then which got

Anna 9:21

going to the outdoor

Phoebe 9:23

Still going to PR pool. Yeah. Which is

Anna 9:24

get a bit of a sunrise. Yeah.

Phoebe 9:26

I just way prefer outdoor pools. Yeah.

Anna 9:28

I completely

Phoebe 9:29

I, they're just, yeah. So much better.

Anna 9:31

We give an honorable mention to our Sunday afternoon yoga and, oh yeah.

Phoebe 9:37

Gosh, I almost, we, I actually forgot. I think, sorry Mel. I think that probably takes the cake of best activity. We went to inner studios in Collingwood, which Phoebe, I am pretty sure half of your income

Anna 9:50

goes

Phoebe 9:50

to there, doesn't it? She frequents it quite a lot. And we did this yoga Yin class before doing this, sauna and guided ice bath. And on a Sunday afternoon, it was rainy Sunday

Anna 10:04

Yeah.

Phoebe 10:05

as well. I think that was like. Peak Sunday afternoon

Anna 10:08

activity. That is, I completely agree. Yeah, The yoga class went for like an hour and 10 minutes, but most of it was literally sleep, sleeping with her, waving inserts around. It

Phoebe 10:18

Yeah.

Anna 10:18

so good. It was so

Phoebe 10:20

I was saying to you after when we got into the sauna. I was in that altered state of consciousness where you're not asleep but you are almost dreaming

Anna 10:30

Yes. Yeah. Weird.

Phoebe 10:32

thoughts that you wouldn't normally have. But then as soon as the lady spoke and was like, okay, let's come back. Open your

Anna 10:39

eyes. Yeah,

Phoebe 10:39

Then I could, it was bizarre.

Anna 10:41

was so nice. Okay.

Phoebe 10:42

what you call Zen.

Anna 10:44

I think it is. I think it is. poppy. Oh, that's so sad. Papa.

Phoebe 10:49

alright. Should we get into the main topic of the

Anna 10:51

Let's do it. I got a really insightful voice note from a friend this week and I was talking to Anna about it and we thought, oh, this would be an amazing topic for the podcast. she was basically talking about, how this concept of listening to your body. Is quite in vogue right

Phoebe 11:05

now.

Anna 11:06

Mm. Including by, we love to say

Phoebe 11:09

love to say it.

Anna 11:10

We love to say, we love to say,

Phoebe 11:11

We love to say

Anna 11:11

We love to tell

Phoebe 11:13

Do we love to do it?

Anna 11:14

Listen to your body. And she was saying she had a really stressful Y year last year and she's currently, taking some time off and traveling so.

Phoebe 11:23

this is

Anna 11:24

anonymous enough.

Phoebe 11:28

She's really burnt out.

Anna 11:29

out. She was, she would say she burnt out. She was so burnt out last year. I think so many people listening will really resonate with this classic, working, very hard, taking on board, everything running and it catches up with you. I think this happened. Well, you were saying before, you feel like it kind of happened to you last year in a sense as well.

Phoebe 11:48

Yeah, I, yeah. I was saying that researching this topic was kind of quite triggering'cause I realized that a lot of it like applied to me.

Anna 11:55

Yeah. But her point was basically like, that advice of listening to your body doesn't work that well when the stress that your body is under can actually kind of mute the cues that you need to be listening to. And not just the stress, we'll talk through actually all the different factors that can actually make it. So that that advice, listening to your body isn't actually that helpful because your body's not actually telling you anything

Phoebe 12:16

Yeah.

Anna 12:17

I guess high level, why is that advice so popular of listening to your body in that kind of intuitive training?

Phoebe 12:23

I think it's relative for running and life in the sense that you have a better quality of life. I feel like if you can listen to your body, you avoid injuries and getting sick all the time, you're being sustainable in whatever you're doing. Whether that's running or another form of activity, or work even. And more so running related, it's better for your recovery and then also for your performance. Yeah, yeah,

Anna 12:47

Yeah. Pretty much. And yeah, Avoiding injuries is a classic one.'cause we kind of spoke about that last week. Even to that extent of being able to notice when something is a bit painful or uncomfortable. Yeah. Like that's a good example of it.

Phoebe 12:58

Yeah. should we chat about the science actually behind stress and how it affects our nervous system? I think so.

Anna 13:03

I think so.

Phoebe 13:04

Hmm. So the fight or flight response a lot of you may have heard of is your body's built in alarm system for danger, which is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system. So the fight or flight was sort of made for times where it's

Anna 13:17

yeah.

Phoebe 13:17

a threat is like a wild animal or something that's literally like life

Anna 13:20

threatening. It's Yeah. Literally getting you ready to fight for your life.

Phoebe 13:23

Yeah. But like in more modern terms, it's literally just any stressful situation. Our brain sends signals to release adrenaline and other stress hormones.

Anna 13:31

Yes, the in actually interesting part of this as well is it doesn't even need to be a stressful situation. It can be thinking about something stressful. Yeah. how humans have evolved to that extent, where it's we can be completely safe, not threatened at all, but we think of something, you know, that might be coming up in the next few weeks and we can get a spike of these kind of hormones. So now it's almost indistinguishable from. whether you're

Phoebe 13:53

you're actually under threat or

Anna 13:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phoebe 13:56

what are the physical changes that actually happen?

Anna 13:58

yeah, so there's basically acute changes that you can notice, which sort of happens straight away. You might notice things like your heart racing, your breathing speeds up, your muscles tense, your senses become sharper. but basically what you might notice is you might feel a bit more keyed up. I would say I often experience stress as. Energy in a sense. Like I feel focused. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't need to feel, it actually isn't inherently a negative thing. Like it actually is

Phoebe 14:25

Yeah. It can be

Anna 14:26

to be like focus, stay awake. be prepared. Yeah. The problem is when it becomes more chronic than acute because as we were saying before, It's not like you're in danger, you're out of danger. Your body can reset. We have the ability with our minds to kind of bring that sense of danger or stress into every single part of our lives. And that's when, you get the more like chronic, issues with stress, I suppose.'cause we're not designed to be having high levels of cortisol for long periods of time, for

Phoebe 14:53

yeah. Like really it was sort of designed to have that and then you'd obviously come back Yeah. Down kind of thing. Whereas now when it's more just sort of day to day stresses. Yes. And as you were saying, it becomes chronic. It's just your body actually never comes

Anna 15:08

Back down,

Phoebe 15:08

just like constantly in that state of stress. Yeah.

Anna 15:10

It's quite interesting, like to come back to my, aura data. There's one, data point that it gives you, which is like daytime stress levels. And I'm always surprised I can have a day that I'm like, that was the funnest. Great day. I loved everything that happened at work. Had a great run in the morning. Saw friends after work, like I feel so happy and you know, satisfied. And then my aura data will be like, you had a really stressful day. And I'm like, I don't rem Yeah. All the time. I'm like, I don't remember feeling stressed at all. But actually my bodi body cues were probably in a heightened state all

Phoebe 15:44

Yeah,

Anna 15:44

like you're with friends, you're thinking about things like you're doing you're still in that sort of, aroused state. State.

Phoebe 15:50

Yeah. So, Stress can actually then distort and dull cues, which may, generally speaking, be the sensors that tell you that you are tired or you are stressed. is'cause a couple of different reasons. So, one is that it can dull hunger cues. So when stress kicks in, your sympathetic nervous system floods your body with adrenaline, which naturally suppresses your appetite. your body obviously thinks survival is more important than eating So hunger signals get put on hold. If stress does last a while, the long term stress hormone of cortisol takes over. So this can kind of go both ways. It can either decrease. Your appetite or for some people it causes stress eating, especially cravings like high fat, sugary foods. Mm-hmm.

Anna 16:32

yeah. It does. And and it's funny'cause we talk about stress impacting your hunger. Jess Rothwell, dietician who's been on the show a few times, she has spoken about how, running also distorts hunger signals. Mm. So straight after a run, you are hard run, your body won't feel like eating. And that's actually the exact same thing. It's'cause it's diverted all your energy and hormones and so on are going to your muscles, not your like gut. And so that system just isn't ready. But actually you really

Phoebe 17:00

when you really, really need to be eating. Yeah.

Anna 17:03

The other big one is tiredness. I feel like this. Is where I see it, or it's almost the opposite of tiredness. I feel like even though as regular listeners will know, I don't always get my eight hours sleep. I don't often feel sleepy. Apart from at times when my iron is really low and I get a little bit exhausted and wanna fall asleep at work, but most of the time, like I can sleep six hours. I'm not be tired at all if

Phoebe 17:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 17:27

day at work. and so in the same sense, that Anna was talking about when you're stressed that cortisol acts like a temporary energy boost, This is actually a really good thing. Like it keeps you alert and wired, which can help you do things like, finish that work task that you need to, like, if there is an immediate need for that, it can actually be really beneficial. But that then can basically impair your ability to actually like. Get a good night's sleep, follow a normal routine with your sleep patterns, which can then lead to like, a whole host of other issues. Yeah. And actually have a snowball effect with your stress. Yeah. In the first

Phoebe 18:01

which I said to you off mic before,'cause I remember last year when I was trying to do so much and then I'd go to sleep and then I sometimes wouldn't be able to sleep. Or I sometimes wake up like I'd just be restless and a bit

Anna 18:13

like, yeah,

Phoebe 18:14

which I never normally am. Like normally I sleep like a log and I I remember thinking like, oh, I'm just not that tired. But now in hindsight. I dunno, everything was obviously

Anna 18:24

elevated. Elevated, so then

Phoebe 18:25

which is a good thing in the short term'cause I could just keep going. Yes. But then you obviously at some point crash and burn.

Anna 18:31

Yeah.

Phoebe 18:32

I,

Anna 18:32

I, I've experienced that even this week. with just lots on at work and so on. I've been noticing my sleep. I've been waking up heaps falling back, sleep that throughout the night. And I do think that's that elevated level of Yeah. stress hormones I suppose.

Phoebe 18:44

Yeah. you can also, can physical symptoms where you kind of hear people throw around having a stress headache. It, causes your muscles to tighten, especially around your neck and jaw. So that's why people can kind of grind their teeth quite a lot. but then I think the like tension around your neck then causes the actual headache. Yeah.

Anna 19:03

I've been told I grind my teeth when I sleep. I've heard that. Yeah.

Phoebe 19:06

As in I haven't heard you

Anna 19:07

go,

Phoebe 19:07

I've heard that you use the crash

Anna 19:09

Yes, have heard from Richmond.

Phoebe 19:14

God, it's loud. I can hear it all the way

Anna 19:17

all. Grinding. But even on nights where I'm like, I swear I'm not stressed.

Phoebe 19:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. another physical symptom is digestive issues. So it can kind of go either way, but stress does slow digestion.'cause obviously, again, like you were saying, straight after a hard run, you're not necessarily hungry that's because all of everything's sort of like going to your muscles. It's the same thing. Your digestive system isn't the main focus. Yeah. so yeah, that can be altered in either way.

Anna 19:45

I think the other thing that compounds all of this is caffeine. because when we're more stressed, sleeping less, I think we leverage caffeine a lot more to help us manage those energy levels throughout the day. And I think you then get, well, a big like. Boost of energy, which then crashed, but also because of the half life of caffeine, which I'm sure we've spoken about on the podcast before, caffeine actually stays in your system for so long that can contribute well A, contribute to the poor sleep B, contribute to the mixed messages from your body in terms of hunger, digestive issues, it almost is an accelerant for all those different effects.

Phoebe 20:24

Yeah. And I, feel like it's this false sense of. Okay. Energy. Yeah, exactly. Whereas

Anna 20:30

It's actually muting that cue of

Phoebe 20:32

what's actually going

Anna 20:33

which is tough because you don't wanna just sit through the day feeling exhausted. No.

Phoebe 20:37

And also, coffee tastes so good. Yeah,

Anna 20:39

Well I, well, you were saying before you feel like you used coffee last year a lot

Phoebe 20:44

Yeah. Times. Yeah. I used to just crash so badly at about 3:00 PM at work to the point where I genuinely thought I was gonna fall asleep, and then I'd have. Another coffee and then maybe another one, and then I'd kind of be good to go again, which is just clearly muting.

Anna 20:59

Yeah, my

Phoebe 21:00

actual, how my body was feeling and I was just then running off caffeine for the rest of the day.

Anna 21:04

I actually think I do not the same thing with tea, but I definitely use tea

Phoebe 21:08

as a bit of a

Anna 21:09

but I always try and I try and stop after lunch or like I'll have one at lunchtime or whatever.'cause I'm like, I really don't want it to

Phoebe 21:16

Impact, yeah. Yeah. But

Anna 21:18

the mornings I'll notice if I don't have a tea, I can feel it. I feel like they underestimate the impact of tea. Yeah, tea. My contribution.

Phoebe 21:27

to our point before we spoke about like being tired, but also wide in a sense. And I feel like the low energy can kind of come into it, which I guess is also linked in with the, caffeine. the constant stress keeps your nervous system in overdrive, which over a long period of time, just like completely zaps your energy. So you might be super tired, but also struggle to just sit down and relax.

Anna 21:50

What do you,

Phoebe 21:51

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Anna 21:51

well, I guess now you are in a, better state than you were last year with the stress. what do you. Reckon looking back was some signals that you could have paid attention to?

Phoebe 22:01

definitely, that I remember, I'd be like, okay, I am gonna sit down or on the weekend, lie down on the couch for a little bit or something, and I'd genuinely quiet. Fidgety iss wrong, but I'd just be a bit restless. Yeah. And kind of wanna get

Anna 22:14

Yeah.

Phoebe 22:15

Where I sort of thought of that as, I don't know, thinking like, oh, I don't really need to lie down, but I think it was actually the opposite. Kind of the opposite. I also think you get like a few like mood changes as well. Like I sort of said before I felt like I was just a bit more narky or just a bit more irritable you know, like things constantly go wrong during the day. Not necessarily, they're not big things, but something happens or I'd just get annoyed or I'd get, I remember I got way more annoyed at other drivers.

Anna 22:41

Oh, okay. That's a

Phoebe 22:43

Yeah. It was bizarre. Yeah. Whereas I didn't really think anything of it at the time, but now looking back, I'm like, Hmm,

Anna 22:49

yeah, I, I, that really resonates I reckon I get less positive. think I feel more negative about

Phoebe 22:56

things. About things. Yeah.

Anna 22:57

feel like my motivation takes a hit. I'm less motivated to push myself to do, which is something I normally really love doing. Yeah. Yeah. But when I am feeling a little bit burnt out, I'm like not motivated to

Phoebe 23:09

Yeah.

Anna 23:09

and, but I guess, yeah. This is what is really hard is how to detangle these things. is that because you are. Stressed and you need to relax or actually will getting out and doing that be something which helps you feel less stressed.

Phoebe 23:26

well, I feel like that's, maybe we should start talking about how to actually try to like reconnect with your body under

Anna 23:31

stress.

Phoebe 23:32

Yeah. Yeah, so this obviously takes time and also practice, but I think even small steps will help you feel more grounded and in control, which will hopefully over a longer period of time, lead to better outcomes for you. so number one, Prioritize restorative activities. We have spoken about this this year about at some point over the weekend trying to do something that is actually gonna be relaxing for yourself, even if it's just for an hour or two. and I think making time to not do much or do something that fills your cup in a sense.

Anna 24:07

That's not scrolling on your phone.

Phoebe 24:09

That's not scrolling in your phone and not necessarily, improving in some sort of way

Anna 24:14

Yeah.

Phoebe 24:15

admin tasks

Anna 24:16

is like for the sake of

Phoebe 24:18

literally Yeah, Yeah. It's like literally putting yourself in timeout. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 24:22

I mean, other kind of classic practices that are designed to help you reconnect with your body under stress, which I do really believe in are those, deep breathing, meditation, yoga. I've really found with a lot of these, they are. Skills. They're not something that you can just do one off and Okay. I feel way better, like something like yoga. I feel like it's only when I'm going regularly, almost every week. That you regular. Yeah.'cause you need to be able to get in that head space. Yeah, and I'm, I've, I mean, I've never tried it really with meditation, but I've heard it's the same thing. of course it's hard when you. Start off to understand it and understand what it's meant to feel like in your mind and how to train. But like anything you just need to practice, make time for it and, practice it as well. Have you ever done like a breath work class or anything like that?

Phoebe 25:05

No, I haven't Have you?

Anna 25:06

I reckon we should give one a go.

Phoebe 25:08

have them at, uh,

Anna 25:09

inner. Yeah. I know.

Phoebe 25:11

Maybe we should try,

Anna 25:12

I think we should.

Phoebe 25:13

of my colleagues was actually saying that she often goes to inner studios and does the breathwork stuff and really,

Anna 25:19

she like them? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are quite, wait. Are you a little bit scared of doing one? Someone who rerun with, I forget who it is, is like I'm too scared to do it.

Phoebe 25:27

Scared In what sense? I

Anna 25:29

know. I sometimes worry that it'll be a bit like, hyperventilating.

Phoebe 25:33

yeah. Okay., I can picture that. I was more thinking you'd say something along the lines of that you just can't do it.

Anna 25:39

Yeah. Like you're trying to hold your breath for too

Phoebe 25:41

Yeah. No, I'm all mean, like, you can't like sit still and

Anna 25:44

just Oh no.

Phoebe 25:46

which I, I find that. I did

Anna 25:48

Well,'cause some of the classes are 90 minutes. Yeah.

Phoebe 25:50

that's a long time to just be sitting there. Yeah. But

Anna 25:53

Yeah.

Phoebe 25:54

obviously maybe you should

Anna 25:56

Yeah. That's true.

Phoebe 25:57

Yeah. The more that that scares

Anna 25:59

you Yeah. The more you probably need to do it.

Phoebe 26:01

I've actually never done this, but a few of my friends do it and I think it can be quite a good practice if you do it consistently, is journaling. Yeah. And it's writing down your feelings. Do you journal.

Anna 26:11

I haven't for, I reckon 18 months, but I would say like the 18 years before that I journaled every year like I, or throughout the year. Every year. Yeah. I have not necessarily every week, maybe every couple weeks, and sometimes I'd be really religious about it and do it every day, but I do. Really wanna bring it back because

Phoebe 26:31

I

Anna 26:31

like a lot of this, interpreting your cues for, just to use a specific example of like listening to your body, we almost just don't give ourself time to reflect on how are we going in our lives right now. Mm-hmm. What is happening? How do we feel about the things that are happening? Yeah. Like take that time to step back from things and reflect on it

Phoebe 26:48

Yeah.

Anna 26:49

we don't really make time for it, I suppose. Whereas Yeah. Journaling. I at least just used as a space to just like reflect on my life, whatever was going on. Yeah. Often I would literally start by writing like what I was up to. Yeah. And then it would turn, as I was writing, it would turn into what I thought about those

Phoebe 27:04

things. Yeah.

Anna 27:05

Like, I did this, here's how. And then it would be like, oh, okay. Actually how do I feel about that? kind of like therapy, but just with yourself and your journal. Yeah. But a lot of it. Do you ever have things that are hanging over your head that you just don't wanna look at? Mm. Like, you know, that need to think about it, but, but Don't think about it. I know that that's hanging over me. Not even task wise. It might be like a conversation that you need to have with a friend or, or you're just nervous or worried about

Phoebe 27:30

something. Or even like processing thoughts about how you're actually

Anna 27:34

like journaling was. Whenever I realized I was doing that, I'd be like, okay, sit down and write about it. I'd be like, okay, how do I feel about this? Why am I not addressing

Phoebe 27:43

her? Yeah. Right.

Anna 27:44

And it was such a good cathartic practice. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I reckon Journaling's, that's a good one. And I've never done like running journaling, but I know some people after they run, they'll write how did I feel that run? Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably more serious runners do it. Yeah. Yeah. But it'd be interesting to do. I

Phoebe 28:01

I feel like that would be pretty cool just to have for future reference. To then go back and be like, what did I used to do? Because obviously your memory sort of gets scattered and you dunno what was what. But it's in the same vein that we enjoy getting Strava memories

Anna 28:16

of Yes.

Phoebe 28:17

Like it'd be cool sort of looking back on

Anna 28:19

it would be you

Phoebe 28:20

and you enjoyed.

Anna 28:21

Yeah. I think it's anything that, because a lot of these are kind of subconscious cues,

Phoebe 28:26

Mm.

Anna 28:27

Anything that forces you to reflect on yourself Yeah. And how you're going, like step back and objectively think about it. Anything like that I

Phoebe 28:33

Yeah. It's literally, yeah. I was gonna say, everything that we're saying is like that time for Being in your own thoughts and like reflecting. Yes. people might be listening to this and be like, okay, well how does that relate to me knowing. If my body actually is under stress, but it's like all of these things I feel would bring you a little bit closer to being, like homeostasis, I guess. And The further you get away from it, the harder it is to come back. Whereas if you can just like come back a little bit, once a week or something, then maybe in turn you might be a bit like, oh actually, I am struggling

Anna 29:06

with this. Yeah.

Phoebe 29:06

or this. maybe in order to listen to my body I need to kind of like take a few

Anna 29:11

back. Yes, So I guess a lot of those signals, they're symptoms. So it's like your body's, you're feeling tired because like you're feeling sleepy because you're not getting enough sleep. And if you are stressed, you're not feeling those, signals. But I also think we could just kind of objectively look at how much sleep we're getting or, um, look at what's going on in our lives and try and objectively recognize is this a more stressful period than usual for

Phoebe 29:37

Yeah.

Anna 29:37

Um. Or like, data that we're getting again from our, smart watches. Like anything like that, that's tracking things. be a bit of a detective in your own life and think about like, okay, if I was to detach myself from my life for a minute, what would I tell myself? Yeah. Like what would I say about my

Phoebe 29:52

myself? Yeah. You had this idea about putting all of our data from your A ring or

Anna 29:57

I really wanna do

Phoebe 29:58

into chat g bt

Anna 30:00

would love to see what

Phoebe 30:02

am I healthy?

Anna 30:03

Give me feedback. Yeah. I actually would love to do this'cause I feel like my Aura gum and like all these things, they're obviously programmed to be really nice to you. You know, they're really positive and I really appreciate that. I

Phoebe 30:13

think that

Anna 30:14

a nice thing.

Phoebe 30:15

I honestly appreciate how kind you are to me, aura.

Anna 30:17

I actually do,'cause I thought it'd be, would add a

Phoebe 30:20

Oh yeah, it'd be, well, it'd

Anna 30:21

But I would love to like, I would love to export all that data, somehow upload it to chat GBT and tell it some information about me and then say like, rip in, give me some critical feedback. Say the things that no one in my life is saying. That would be

Phoebe 30:37

So yeah, I

Anna 30:39

next week,

Phoebe 30:39

let's do that. Watch this space. alright, so I hope that we have kind of explained why sometimes it actually can be challenging to quote unquote listen to your body.

Anna 30:51

I'm actually, I'm interested like at the end of this discussion or now that we're kind of rounding out this discussion, like, do you think listen to your body is good advice?

Phoebe 31:00

I think it is. Yeah. But I can see sometimes where some people are too far gone for that.

Anna 31:05

Mm. And.

Phoebe 31:06

And I don't think at the moment, I feel like I can definitely listen to my body. but I feel like at times, and like as I've said, like last year, I couldn't really listen to my body because my body was muting. I think Use that as an indicator, Rather than diagnostic about it. Because I do think that at times it can kind of fool you. Yeah.

Anna 31:25

Yeah. You're, I mean, it's kind of like a nice thing to say, it makes sense. Of course, that's what you should do. But yeah, I tend to agree. I think it's actually probably not that useful I just feel like every person who's stressed do you know? Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like it's just so normal to feel so busy and so overwhelmed, like all the time. I.

Phoebe 31:45

I don't know. Yeah, maybe it is, or should that be normal? Like I definitely know some friends who are way better at. Putting their own wellbeing first Intentionally. Yeah. And intentionally saying no to things or not doing as much.

Anna 31:57

Well, that's almost the goal is like, how do you design your life, set up your life so that you don't get to a stage where your burnout is muting? What your body's trying to tell you. and you do need to be intentional about that and think about it and not just hope that one day you'll get less busy. Yeah. And your body will start speaking to you again. Yes.

Phoebe 32:16

Speak to me.

Anna 32:17

me again. Speak to me.

Phoebe 32:19

Um,

Anna 32:19

quiet for so long. Phoebe,

Phoebe 32:25

can you believe we're gonna be leasing up the shoes and running in the Nike after dark tour in just 19 days?

Anna 32:31

know. I am. Seriously so excited. I think we should do some quick fire questions. What are you most excited about?

Phoebe 32:38

Definitely most excited to see so many women at night running through the streets of Sydney and also the post event celebrations. They sound absolutely so, so cool. and also excited for the bra fitting that we're gonna do as well. And also the expo for the Thursday and Friday before the race. okay. How has your training been going and how are you feeling for the race?

Anna 32:58

So I mean, as we know, my training's been a little bit up and down. but I did a longing this morning. I'm feeling good for the distance. I also feel reassured by the fact that I know, even if it gets hard, I just really think the vibes and the atmosphere will be amazing and will get me through. Okay. Last question. What has been your favorite product to run in over the last couple months?

Phoebe 33:19

Definitely the Viro eighteens, I feel like I'm wearing them literally every day. so comfortable with Max Cushioning, which I love for everyday running. And also the sleek bright crimson colorway makes me look stylish for the post run

Anna 33:31

It sure does. Uh, if you can't tell, we are so excited for April 12th We'll be taking to the Sydney streets to kick off the Nike after duck tour. Nike's global race series being held in six cities around the world,

Phoebe 33:43

A massive thanks to Nike for putting on such a cool event and for helping bring this episode to life.

Anna 33:49

Okay, so last week we launched a new segment, conversations with Friends, and we gave an example of a live debate that I'd been having with

Phoebe 33:58

a live debate

Anna 33:58

my little brother Joe, about, should you plan your runs based on time or distance? Um, I have to say we did a poll. The majority of people said they planned based on distance, which they knew would happen, but we then gave people an option to add in some thoughts. We must have got, we got hundreds it was, it was clearly, really struck a chord and most of the comments were in on my side of the, anyway, that's

Phoebe 34:22

not, yes, but I would argue that that's because you are better at putting your case forward than me.

Anna 34:27

Um, or then Joe who was not

Phoebe 34:29

Yeah, yeah.

Anna 34:30

Yeah. But then you are such a starer. You took a screenshot of the poll results, set up a WhatsApp group with me and Joe. I am like, hmm.

Phoebe 34:39

I know because I felt like I needed to get one back. So I, I think the exact term that I used was the poll speaks for itself. Um, because there's something about, I love watching you and, well, I mean, I only really ever see you and Joe, but like you and your siblings beef, because I feel like you are, you're very good at speaking, at and I just like to. Throw a little bit of a little

Anna 35:06

a little grenade in the, as

Phoebe 35:07

Yes, exactly.

Anna 35:08

but people did also submit their own long run debates topics and we absolutely loved reading and we thought we'd actually talk through some of them live. first one someone said is when to have the first gel.

Phoebe 35:20

Yeah. So I presume this was on a long run.

Anna 35:23

Yeah, well, yeah. Or if someone's running longer during the week, think there is a recommendation of like after 4 30, 5 40 minutes when you have your first one, but I. Understand the challenge.'cause I had one with me this morning'cause we were doing a 90 minute run. I wanted to have one halfway through. I got halfway through and I was like, I feel fine. the gel's disgusting so I won't do it. And then literally like, and I got reckon we got an hour and 10 minutes in and I was like, I wish I'd just had the gel.'cause now I'm like, I can feel my energy dropping. So I feel like the challenge is forcing it down before you feel like,

Phoebe 35:56

yeah, before it's too late. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 45, I'm bang on 45

Anna 36:01

Yeah. Yeah.'cause you don't wanna have to be forcing it down like every half hour. It just feels

Phoebe 36:06

Yeah. I also just think I always have in my head you are doing this less so for now, but more so for your recovery.

Anna 36:15

For the recovery. Yes.

Phoebe 36:16

So I reckon, I reckon 45. Another one. Why are we so bloated all the time? Can I get a hell Yeah.

Anna 36:24

I just love this one.'cause I can just imagine a group of girls on their run just being like, why the heck

Phoebe 36:31

I'm not intolerant to anything? Why am I

Anna 36:33

all the time. I don't think we have an

Phoebe 36:36

answer? I don't have an answer, but I also like that one.

Anna 36:39

I feel like I don't get bloated that often. I was about to say, not

Phoebe 36:44

Okay.

Anna 36:45

the most hated girl. That's nice. No, as in I I, every now and then it'll happen. I'll be like, you just checking,

Phoebe 36:51

See, I'm bloated already. Now it's 1230.

Anna 36:55

She's already bloated. I feel like it's probably like a time of the month thing for me. Yeah. I reckon is the only thing I can tie it back to when it

Phoebe 37:02

does happen. Mm.

Anna 37:03

but I have to say. Oh my God. I was bloated yesterday. I was bloated at work and I was wearing tight jeans and I was doing interviews and I was just like, I'm

Phoebe 37:12

I'm

Anna 37:12

exploding, like out of these jeans. I was just like, what is going on? But I don't know what I would attribute it to. Like it is very

Phoebe 37:21

yeah, I, there's no pattern in mind. I'm just constantly bloated. I was, you know, I did go out for, sorry, this is off on a tangent. I did go out for dinner with my family a few weeks ago, and my brother by the end of the night was like, oh, careful. Like you're, I was wearing jeans. And he's like, your, but your buns aren't undo. And I was like, yeah, I know. I was like, I undid it. And he was like, what?

Anna 37:43

You have to, there's nothing worse than being locked

Phoebe 37:45

Yeah.

Anna 37:46

Or the other thing is like wearing a tight dress and feeling worse.

Phoebe 37:50

that is the worst. That is honestly, I feel for, it's a Saturday. I feel for anyone. I know this will come out on the Monday, but, feel for anyone going to like a wedding today or something, and they're bloated in like a silk tight dress. My thoughts go out to you. Okay, next conversation is my friend plays slow ballads on her long runs. This is this absurd behavior.

Anna 38:12

It is a little bit absurd. What is an example of a slow ballad, do you think?

Phoebe 38:16

I would say a Taylor Swift 10 minute version.

Anna 38:20

Okay, so you think that's totally

Phoebe 38:22

fine? Oh, that is music to my ears, honestly. yeah, I actually think on a long runs because I feel I am with the friend, sorry to whoever put this in, but I feel like long runs, you're not, you shouldn't be sort of up and about going hard, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it should be quite relaxing and I feel like it's quite therapeutic listening

Anna 38:41

listen to what ever is. Well, people listen to podcasts when they run,

Phoebe 38:44

Yeah. Yeah. So

Anna 38:46

that said, I don't think I've done it before and I, I can't imagine it would get me like up and about.

Phoebe 38:54

No, but I think that's the point though. I feel like on your long run, you don't really wanna be up and

Anna 38:58

I still want something that's gonna give me energy.

Phoebe 39:01

Mm. Okay. So example of a slow ballad. Oh yeah.

Anna 39:04

Oh yeah. I feel like it'd be sad

Phoebe 39:06

Oh, okay. Mm. Okay.

Anna 39:09

Not tail Swift.

Phoebe 39:11

no, you're beautiful by James Blunt.

Anna 39:14

Oh, it's not okay. Definitely not. That is absurd behavior. Imagine. Imagine listening

Phoebe 39:22

or can't help Falling in love by Elvis Presley.

Anna 39:24

oh, I mean, a beautiful song, but.

Phoebe 39:27

If you're walking down the aisle, maybe

Anna 39:29

Literally.

Phoebe 39:29

Um, all right. What is the food you crave most post run?

Anna 39:35

Can you guess my answer?

Phoebe 39:36

You are gonna say a hot water or

Anna 39:41

that makes me sound like a psycho. No.

Phoebe 39:44

No, smoothie

Anna 39:45

toast. Eggs

Phoebe 39:46

on toast straight after the run,

Anna 39:48

Post run, just like in the hours afterwards. Yeah. Okay. and the food not asking specifically for food, shame me. You're like, really? Wow.

Phoebe 39:58

Wow. I've never seen you

Anna 39:59

I would only go for a juice post. I did have a really nice

Phoebe 40:02

juice. Yeah. That's why. And I remember you being like, oh God, this

Anna 40:06

so,

Phoebe 40:06

good.

Anna 40:07

it was so good. but no, honestly, oh, actually that h pumpkin toasty was unreal. What about you?

Phoebe 40:14

I would say if it's a hot day, I know it's technically not food, but a Rockies or this, like really? You know what a really thick smoothie that you have to use a spoon for because it's so thick. Yeah. Okay. Mm.

Anna 40:28

That is, you, you, you're thinking of like being satiated almost

Phoebe 40:32

Like a bowl of, yeah. Yeah. And maybe like a. Liter of Gatorade. Yeah. Um, on a cold day, I reckon. Just a, a really good toasty. Not the one that I had today.

Anna 40:44

You know what? They used to be the best poster on food ever that you speak. Cafe and Bronte. Beach Sydney called Three Blue Ducks. I don't think it's there anymore. But they used to do this, BRE Burrito, which had like scrambled eggs, halmi, fried potato vegetables, hummus, um, avocado, yum. Like literally all just scrambled in and is the nicest thing of all time.

Phoebe 41:08

Yeah. I would be intrigued to know what everyone, the food that everyone craves posts on.'cause I reckon there would be so many different answers. Yeah. Maybe. Let's ask. Mm. all right. would you rather run in humidity or heavy rain?

Anna 41:22

This is such a tough one. I feel like it depends on the type of run.'cause I really don't mind some heavy rain.

Phoebe 41:29

You just gotta answer this. Just running full stop. Long

Anna 41:31

run humidity.

Phoebe 41:33

Mm.

Anna 41:33

Maybe just humidity. Humidity. I like, I quite like humidity. Yeah. But I like heavy rain too. They're both a pleasure.

Phoebe 41:40

I would love heavy rain. You just feel so alive. Running in the

Anna 41:43

rain. Yeah.

Phoebe 41:43

starts like raining,

Anna 41:45

Okay. As a one off heavy rain. If it was every day. Oh, you could only run in one of them for the rest of your life. Yeah. Choose humidity.

Phoebe 41:53

okay, last one

Anna 41:54

is more of a,

Phoebe 41:55

more. We just thought this was funny because I feel like running solo, you can so relate to this. I got stung by a bee and debated with myself if I was anaphylactic or just struggling. I was in fact just struggling.

Anna 42:06

So relatable,

Phoebe 42:07

relatable. So relatable. I think we'll leave it there.

Anna 42:10

it there. I think we will. Thank you Teron. Who submitted them? We'll, we might put up another, poll this week, or not poll question

Phoebe 42:16

books. Yeah.

Anna 42:17

And you can. Submit your long run topics we wanna hear. What are you chatting

Phoebe 42:20

Yeah, yeah. As always. Thank you so much.

Anna 42:23

Thank you so much. I

Phoebe 42:24

sticking with us.

Anna 42:25

I really hope everyone got something out of today. If you did give us a follow, give us a like subscribe you people.

Phoebe 42:37

You're doing great sweetie. Alright. That's it. We can't wait to be in your ears next week. Bye.

Anna 42:55

So wait, sorry. Just see how you're talking right

Phoebe 42:57

now.

Anna 42:57

Like this. Sorry. So when you talk like this, like you have to like talk into it you

Phoebe 43:04

I'm just being Yes, mom.

Anna 43:07

You're literally talking.

Phoebe 43:08

Yeah, I know. I dunno how

Anna 43:10

I literally just like you do.

Phoebe 43:11

do,

Anna 43:13

I

Phoebe 43:13

literally saw my,

Anna 43:14

you doing.

Phoebe 43:17

I need a bib.