We're back!!!!! On air and on a marathon start list

Welcome to a new season cheeky crew!

We’re so excited to be back in your ears, and we have so much to catch up on, so lace up legends.

In today’s episode, we give you an update on our cheeky merchandise, Phoebe takes us through why she’s signed up for another marathon, and we look at the latest scandal to rock the running world.

 Be sure to keep an ear out for an exciting giveaway we’re doing – all thanks to Lululemon!

LINKS:

-   Check out our latest Substack, ‘Marathon Amnesia’.

-   Our reading rec, ‘The Secret Race’ by professional cyclist Tyler Hamilton.

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Transcript

Anna 0:00

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

Phoebe 0:06

This episode is sponsored by Lululemon supporting cheeky runners every step of the way.

Anna 0:11

Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast, and community Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast, and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello,

Phoebe 0:21

Hello, Anna

Anna 0:21

and hello, listeners.

Phoebe 0:23

today we have so much to catch up on. We are going to be talking about why I've decided to try and do another

Anna 0:29

marathon. Woo woo. We are

Phoebe 0:30

gonna announce. Cheeky challenge. We're going to give some things away. We'll unpack the latest scandal that has rocked the running world, and we're going to give a highly anticipated merch update.

Anna 0:42

Got a lot to cover.

Phoebe 0:43

We do. It's a big agenda, but first, as always, we'll kick it off with our notable runs or running related activity of the last few weeks. Anna, give me a vest.

Anna 0:53

Oh, these are honestly getting so rogue, but my favorite, my best running related activity is that I became a.

Phoebe 1:01

a

Anna 1:03

Not niece, auntie. 10 days ago.

Phoebe 1:07

Yay. Little

Anna 1:09

was born on the 12th of July. So I have a brother and a, he has this, I'm making this sound so weird, so I'm one of two. My brother has just given birth to his first child.

Phoebe 1:20

His

Anna 1:21

Wife

Phoebe 1:21

wife has.

Anna 1:22

birth to her. Why am I making this so awkward? Anyway, she is so cute. It's so weird seeing something. I know like you have nephews, so you are probably already used to this, but I don't know if you found the first time you looked at them being like, oh my gosh, yeah, you are half. I kept just being like, you are half James.

Phoebe 1:40

Yeah.

Anna 1:40

that is so weird.

Phoebe 1:41

There's something quite,

Anna 1:43

like quite surreal. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 1:45

And did you find, sorry, this is a very deep question, but you like love her straight away?

Anna 1:51

Yes. I, I, do you know what I, I'm like precious, angel,

Phoebe 1:56

Precious angel. Is that what you said?

Anna 1:57

who, like, I would never, I would never say call someone precious. Or call someone

Phoebe 2:02

so not your, but when you see a new

Anna 2:04

get a bit of an

Phoebe 2:04

baby that

Anna 2:05

but out her, I'm like, there are only two words to describe you, and it's precious angel.

Phoebe 2:10

Oh sweetheart.

Anna 2:12

I love her. so that was my,

Phoebe 2:14

Wait, wait. How are you gonna loop that back to best run of the week?

Anna 2:18

okay. So it's looped back'cause it's running adjacent labor is hard.

Phoebe 2:24

People compare it to running a marathon,

Anna 2:26

Sophie. So, and just like of sympathy, I thought that day was hard knowing what she was going through.

Phoebe 2:34

Okay, we'll take it.

Anna 2:37

And that is how it relates to the best run of the week. about you?

Phoebe 2:41

you? My best run. I've had two great long runs, so I'm gonna say my long runs have been really good. I'll give an honorable mention for both of them. So the, long run, two weekends ago I did out at Yarra Flats, which is one of our favorite places to run. It's just some of the nicest running in Melbourne. Definitely. It's like this beautiful crush, gravel, but like through the countryside, you feel like, I

Anna 3:06

like it's trail for Melbourne.

Phoebe 3:07

It's straight out from Melbourne and then we actually did this loop at the end of it, which I haven't done before. I think you have, was such nice run and I'd been away for a week for work before that and the Friday night before the run, I'd had like the best night's sleep ever. And you know when you wake up and you're so excited

Anna 3:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 3:24

like I was so excited to the extent we were on our way there and Sean was coming, which was also just so exciting.

Anna 3:30

exciting

Phoebe 3:30

and we were driving there and one

Anna 3:34

all it could, could be a best run moment in itself.

Phoebe 3:37

Yeah. Literally. Literally. And I was playing music in the car. I singing along so happy. And when we were halfway there, Sean looked at me and was like, this is literally your equivalent of like going out to the clubs.

Anna 3:51

club. You're like, mm-hmm.

Phoebe 3:55

I was like, yep. I just was so excited. Oh, I actually, I, I couldn't tell you, but I was singing, that's the main thing I was doing more singing than listening, I would say. and then I, yeah, I was just like excited because that was sort of a week after the, half marathon and I feel like like, I recovered from it really well. And then more recently. The most recent long run I did was the first long run that's like getting a little bit longer. It was two hours and 15 minutes. So I, I was very prepared. I had lots of gels and I feel like I fueled myself really well, and I was surprised at how doable it felt. I was like, oh, that was fine. Like I think I'd hyped up my head to be that I was gonna be a lot harder than I was. Yeah.

Anna 4:35

Yeah. But you fueled,

Phoebe 4:37

But I fueled, I cannot tell you. It's crazy that we're still learning this. Over fueling, having more gels than you think you need. So for example, normally for a two hour run I would have two gels, which I think is a good amount. And now for two hours, 15, I had three. I felt like I was just amazing. The whole run.

Anna 4:52

I remember you saying that day after that you had recovered so well,

Phoebe 4:55

So well? Yeah. So that was the best. What was your worst?

Anna 5:00

My worst is, again, sort of rogue, is the fact that I'm still not running and I feel as if, I think I said to you last week, my hip has kind of gotten a little bit worse and I don't really know why. And I've been to the physio, I'm doing my exercises every day and I'm just not really sure what is going on. So that I feel like is just. Lingering in my head all the time.'cause I'm so aware of it being like, does this hurt? Does this hurt? And like, because it is quite sore during the day as well, particularly when I sit down,

Phoebe 5:33

is it really,

Anna 5:34

I just can't stop thinking about it. And in my head, I know this is illogical. It's a bit of like a brother, stop worrying about this.

Phoebe 5:40

that. Yeah.

Anna 5:41

But like, I'm like, will I ever be able to run again?

Phoebe 5:44

again? Oh, I can. It, it is totally logical, but I can so see how that's where your mind

Anna 5:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 5:51

the only possible. So what is your next step with it? Um,

Anna 5:54

I'm gonna go back to the physio and try and get in with sports doctor as well. And I just, just keep on doing the exercises. I was saying to our Spanish correspondent the other day, nos said maybe it's just getting a little bit worse before it gets a heat better.

Phoebe 6:09

Yeah, that's true.

Anna 6:10

because, and I also think,'cause I was like, oh maybe I just shouldn't do the exercises. What's the point? And then, then I sort of thought, oh, well if I don't do them, it's definitely not gonna do get better. Mm. But if I do do them, maybe it will a tiny bit. So I may as well just keep doing them.

Phoebe 6:23

You may as well just but Yeah. But I guess you need to get to the bottom of what it is.

Anna 6:27

actually going on

Phoebe 6:28

Then that

Anna 6:28

me old would hippie dip because

Phoebe 6:30

I feel like we've spoken about this before, but when you have a plan

Anna 6:33

Yeah. Everything that comes

Phoebe 6:34

more

Anna 6:34

Yes. Where it's like all the unknown kind of stuff

Phoebe 6:37

Yeah. Whereas if you knew for sure that if you do these exercises for another six weeks,

Anna 6:42

then I'll

Phoebe 6:43

you can start. Then you'd be like, cool. Yeah. Oh, no worries. I'll keep doing them.

Anna 6:46

Yeah, exactly. yes, that's my worst running related, non-running related

Phoebe 6:50

Oh, I know. We'll get you back. Yeah. Worst run, non-running.

Anna 6:55

let me hear yours.

Phoebe 6:56

so as I said, the week after the Gold Coast Half Marathon, I was away. I was in Dalesford for a work trip, which was a lovely week. But for anyone who hasn't been to Ville before, it's, it's a chilly place,

Anna 7:08

It's a chilly chili place.

Phoebe 7:09

It was so cold and it's, it's a fair bit colder than Melbourne. Yeah. And it was. Raining

Anna 7:14

it was a cold week that week anyway,

Phoebe 7:16

it was a really cold week. So, for example, some runs I went out and it would be negative three degrees, apparent temperature, zero degrees, and, but it, it felt like I couldn't warm up and I only because it was the week after the half, I was only doing little jogs. I wasn't doing any sessions or anything faster, but it just meant that I would never really warm up. And so for the first two runs, it was good because I convinced. One of the guys that I work with to come with me, but then the last

Anna 7:43

he was like, stop this.

Phoebe 7:44

Yeah. Literally. So the last few I sort of did by myself. Yeah. The other thing is it's so hilly there.

Anna 7:50

I've actually never run there before.

Phoebe 7:51

before. Oh, there is not a single flight

Anna 7:53

Oh, it just

Phoebe 7:54

hills everywhere, like big hills. It was quite funny actually, the first morning my boss was meant to come on a run with us as well, but he was really jet lagged and

Anna 8:03

Yeah, yeah,

Phoebe 8:04

yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As he then was all week didn't come for a single run.

Anna 8:09

even

Phoebe 8:09

though he was run captain. Anyway, I, he sent us a message that wanted to be like, sorry I'm not coming, but I've planned out a route for you. Because he was run captain of the week and he sent us this route and it was like this.

Anna 8:20

We

Phoebe 8:20

We'd said we'd a 40 minute run and it was this eight K trail run with 400 meters elevation. It's pitch black and raining I'm like,

Anna 8:28

like, I did a half marathon

Phoebe 8:30

in what world? so yeah. Anyway, I had some really, I had some grim runs there.

Anna 8:35

Mm.

Phoebe 8:35

last run on the Friday.

Anna 8:36

Friday

Phoebe 8:37

I

Anna 8:37

I

Phoebe 8:38

was jogging. Just could not have been less motivated. And my watch died when I was, I'd only gone like a K or two and I really. Stood there and I was like, do I just

Anna 8:51

yeah, because you're like, my watch is dead anyway.

Phoebe 8:53

Do I just walk it in? I know. And then I had to myself a talking to and be like, no,

Anna 8:57

Yeah, yeah

Phoebe 8:57

Like

Anna 8:58

brother. Snap outta that brother.

Phoebe 9:00

Snap out of it. Exactly. so yes, that was my worst. Nice.

Anna 9:05

Well, not nice. Not nice. No, not nice but nice. Not terrible.

Phoebe 9:09

terrible. Yeah. Thank you.

Anna 9:12

Nice.

Phoebe 9:13

reflection.

Anna 9:14

alright, so we have a little bit more housekeeping.

Phoebe 9:16

We do. Look at us.

Anna 9:18

I know. Look at our Type A girlies.

Phoebe 9:21

I know.

Anna 9:22

Let's get the admin out of the way first.

Phoebe 9:24

trying so hard.

Anna 9:25

so the jumpers have arrived. Our hoodies that we are doing and they are so sick.

Phoebe 9:31

Yes.

Anna 9:31

I love them. You might have spotted them in a couple of rogue

Phoebe 9:35

Yeah. So by now, tomorrow we're about to put up. Well, sorry, this will be in the past if you're listening to this, it was very confusing for us though. It's tomorrow

Anna 9:44

Yeah.

Phoebe 9:44

we are gonna put up a reel, which we filmed, which is a little bit of a different reel for us. Let

Anna 9:48

us know your thoughts,

Phoebe 9:49

let us see your thoughts. If you've seen it, you'll know what we're talking about. so yes, you'll seen the jumpers. They're amazing. I was about to say, I'm wearing it right now, but I'm not.

Anna 9:57

not Phoebe's just looking down at herself thinking, I, am I wearing it. No,

Phoebe 10:03

I should be wearing it right now. I've barely taken off. It's, they're genuinely so warm and cozy

Anna 10:08

They're so comfy.

Phoebe 10:10

I'm cute.

Anna 10:10

Cute. and.

Phoebe 10:11

however, cheeky. And cheeky. Yes. some of you may recall that we actually promised some long sleeve tees,

Anna 10:19

Mm.

Phoebe 10:20

um, which unfortunately they will not be. able to be purchased. there was a defect.

Anna 10:24

There was a defect in the long sleeves and they will not be made for sale at this time, although

Phoebe 10:30

they may be in the future Potentially what we

Anna 10:34

we haven't quite worked it out yet.

Phoebe 10:35

Yeah, you, you're getting a bit of insight into our process right now, but I think it's good to keep everyone informed. cause I don't wanna make

Anna 10:40

good to be transparent.

Phoebe 10:41

it's good to be transparent. So they arrived and there's a defect, which is that the sleeves shorter than they should

Anna 10:49

really short. So

Phoebe 10:51

like, it's a long sleeve tee, but if you are wearing your normal size,

Anna 10:55

it's a

Phoebe 10:55

the sleeve finishes. It's a bit three quarter. They've attached just slightly two short sleeves. Unfortunately,

Anna 11:02

And it's actually, it is sad, but we are only laughing'cause if you don't laugh, you'll cry. Yeah.

Phoebe 11:06

have to laugh literally,

Anna 11:08

especially when, okay, picture this. My partner is, how tall is he? Like six three.

Phoebe 11:15

Yeah.

Anna 11:16

Him in a full length,

Phoebe 11:19

we put up the photo

Anna 11:20

full long sleeve. And then the arms go up to about his elbows. look like just the arms have been shrunk.

Phoebe 11:27

is. Uh, it's very funny, but fortunately the, people who made it for us have been. They're extremely apologetic and they're refunding us. So we do. We were thinking we have an opportunity to do something with them because if you buy two sizes up. You're fine. Even a size up.

Anna 11:43

fine.

Phoebe 11:43

It's actually fine. Um,

Anna 11:44

I was wearing a small the other day and

Phoebe 11:45

That was fine. Okay. they're unisex sizes, but anyway, if you wear a size or two up, you're totally fine. So what we're thinking is we might sell them and donate them proceeds of those to charity. Yeah. So if you have a charity that you think would be great, let us know. We have a few in mind. Yeah. But as you can see, we're, we're still marinating on this. Yeah. It's all very, all very, fresh. But yes, Jumpers will go live Tuesday night at.

Anna 12:08

6:00 PM here first. Huge. We did not just decide that then. but yes, and We're not going to do another round. So getting

Phoebe 12:18

No. They took

Anna 12:19

once they're gone they're gone. Yeah,

Phoebe 12:21

that's it. Yeah. But they're really

Anna 12:22

And I'm gonna be buying five.

Phoebe 12:26

get in before Anna? It does. okay. We have one more bit of housekeeping. Sorry, we should have been snappy here, but we're starting a new challenge with the cheeky community over the next kind of four to five weeks in the lead up to Sydney Marathon and also in the Lead Up to me Marathon, and really any event. That you're training for? it's called the Cheeky Champion Challenge. It is sponsored by Lululemon, who, as you'll know, have been supporting us for a little while now. And the idea behind the Cheeky Champion Challenge is that we're bringing back the Strava Group Brains Trust. We're reigniting it and each week we're handing over the mic to you guys. So each week we're gonna put a question box on our Instagram. Mm-hmm. On a Tuesday night.

Anna 13:07

Yeah.

Phoebe 13:08

On Wednesday, we'll pick one of those questions that comes through. So anything that you wanna know, that you wanna crowdsource responses for, put it in there. We'll choose. Um, we'll put it on our Strava group. Everyone can respond. Chip in with their answers. Yeah. And then we will on the Thursday pick the answer that we think is most helpful, most informative, whatever that is. And you'll be awarded on the, the following Monday. So there's a lot of dates here.

Anna 13:36

On the next episode, the winner will be announced.

Phoebe 13:40

Oh, the winner

Anna 13:41

you guys have a pen and paper.

Phoebe 13:43

And yeah, hope you added all of those to your calendars.

Anna 13:45

your Google calendar.

Phoebe 13:46

Just, just follow the along the Instagram Strava group and the podcast and

Anna 13:53

Strava podcast. And don't forget to follow Lululemon.

Phoebe 13:56

and follow them. No, because what will happen on the podcast is we'll announce the winner, the cheeky. A champion and they will get a prize from

Anna 14:05

Correct.

Phoebe 14:06

Got there in the end,

Anna 14:07

We got there.

Phoebe 14:08

I'm, I'm really excited for that. I can't wait to see the questions that come

Anna 14:10

Yeah. So excited.

Phoebe 14:11

and one of my favorite things has been seeing all the great responses that come through.

Anna 14:16

Mm-hmm. I

Phoebe 14:17

you can really trust them. It's kind of like when you ask a question on Reddit.

Anna 14:19

Reddit. Mm. Never have done that.

Phoebe 14:24

But I like reading the answers. I like reading the answers.

Anna 14:29

true because I do trust them.

Phoebe 14:31

You trust them.

Anna 14:32

I trust Brian Davis, 54 with

Phoebe 14:36

my life

Anna 14:38

If he says, go left, I'll go left.

Phoebe 14:40

it's crazy. Um, but thank you so much Lululemon for supporting the community and for bringing this episode to life.

Anna 14:50

To Life. Nice. Alright, so let's get into the main topic of the week. Why on earth do we do marathons?

Phoebe 14:57

Mm.

Anna 14:58

You wrote a amazing article on our substack last week, talking through why you are doing it. So again, if anyone hasn't signed up to our substack

Phoebe 15:09

yeah,

Anna 15:09

sign up because Phoebe writes these amazing articles each week, dropping every Wednesday and anyway, so talk me through.

Phoebe 15:18

why

Anna 15:18

are you doing it?

Phoebe 15:19

Yes, I actually do feel the need to justify it a little bit because I feel like I was so, I was so smug at the start of the year being like, I'm just gonna do five and 10 Ks this year. Yeah. That's all I'm gonna do.

Anna 15:31

are. So, in the past, literally I'm

Phoebe 15:33

I'm listening to my body. I'm actually, I've like, kind of transcended the marathon. no. Yeah, I was really keen to just do five and 10 Ks and I, I know why that was. I was so burnt out from the marathon that I tried to do last year,

Anna 15:45

Mm.

Phoebe 15:45

but I, well, first of all.

Anna 15:48

all,

Phoebe 15:48

the way this even came into my brain was because, Benita, who is our contact at Lululemon mentioned to us that they had a bunch of, tickets for Melbourne Marathon to give away, which you listeners hear a little bit more about in a few minutes.

Anna 16:01

minutes.

Phoebe 16:01

But I was just like, just remember just being like, interesting

Anna 16:06

Mm. Because.

Phoebe 16:08

I, I've never done Melbourne Marathon and. It has always been something that I've been like at some point in my life I want to do Melbourne. And I, I, I kind of try not to think about it.'cause I was like, no, no, I said I wasn't going to do it. the more I sort of let it marinate, the more I was like, oh, I think I really wanna do this. So it was such a helpful process writing the substack and, and sort of thinking through it because I think for me. I feel like it's not a redemption marathon. It's not like a Oh that went so badly in Berlin, I want to do better. Mm-hmm. It's like a, I wanna prove to myself that I learn the lessons that I didn't live up to. Mm-hmm. When I tried to train for Berlin.

Anna 16:50

last year. Yeah.

Phoebe 16:51

And I wanna see, okay, with this new,

Anna 16:55

you know,

Phoebe 16:56

Respect for my body and for what I put it through in a marathon block and for what I need to fuel it with and all of those things. Can I apply that and get a better result and by a better result? Yeah. I don't even mean time, I just mean have a block that feels

Anna 17:13

like, enjoy the whole process more.

Phoebe 17:15

That is my entire goal is like I wanna enjoy every week of training. And it's not that I don't want it to be hard, I do want it to be hard. I want it to feel challenging, but within. My abilities.

Anna 17:26

Yeah. Yeah. No.

Phoebe 17:27

If that makes sense.

Anna 17:28

Yeah, that completely makes sense. You wanna be in control.

Phoebe 17:31

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I do, I want to do it to challenge myself, of course, but it's just like a different kind of challenge. It's not like I just wanna go as hard as I can

Anna 17:39

Yeah. Yeah. As

Phoebe 17:40

possible. I just wanna set myself up. I wanna feel strong. I wanna feel like, I'm running within myself. Yeah. And that I'm like paying attention to my body and listening to my body and whatever that looks like. So I wanna do a reflection piece on what explicitly what lessons can I take and how can I apply them to this block and so that I'm, I've got it sort of front of mind.'cause I feel like it's so easy to just start the block and just forget

Anna 18:02

just kind of, yeah. Yeah. you, in the substack that you, that just came out, you wrote how, took the idea to some of your friends and they

Phoebe 18:10

Yes. Pretty

Anna 18:10

much saying do not do that. Yeah. What.

Phoebe 18:13

What,

Anna 18:14

what was your response? Were you surprised by that or?

Phoebe 18:18

Well, yeah, so shout out Georgie Jazz and Bronte who gave me a really

Anna 18:23

I wasn't gonna name them.

Phoebe 18:24

to No, no, no.

Anna 18:25

No, that's what good friends are for

Phoebe 18:27

That is exactly what good friends are for and I'm extremely grateful for them. Yeah, it was funny. I was just over at the house having a cup of tea on a Tuesday night, and

Anna 18:35

I

Phoebe 18:35

don't even know how it came. Oh, it came up because asked me what the substack was gonna be on, and I was like, oh, I think I'm gonna write it on, like, why I wanna do another marathon. And they were like.

Anna 18:43

were like,

Phoebe 18:44

What was that you

Anna 18:46

can you go to the part?

Phoebe 18:47

what was that? What'd you say? And then we were sort of talking about, and the initial route that I was going down for the substack was very different from where it ended up. I was sort of talking like a high level about what why I thought I wanted to do it. And they were sort of like, oh.

Anna 19:03

actually I,

Phoebe 19:04

one of them said, I think this is a bad idea. Like, you already, she didn't say this, but like I know it. Like I already am. I'm

Anna 19:10

doing a lot struggling. Yeah.

Phoebe 19:12

in my life a little bit. Like I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed and adding a marathon adds a crazy amount of like and

Anna 19:20

and Yeah, because it's the work and then it's also the recovery. Yes.

Phoebe 19:26

But then at the same time, it's almost like.

Anna 19:29

I

Phoebe 19:29

I never wanna do a marathon more than when I'm stressed.

Anna 19:33

Yeah, yeah.'cause that's when it's almost the most beneficial.

Phoebe 19:37

Yeah.

Anna 19:37

you have that like way to escape. sorry, I shouldn't say escape. The more sort of, you have like a longer period of time and a bit more of a focus on being in that meditative space. Yes. Yeah.

Phoebe 19:47

And it's funny, I don't have a holiday booked for this year. I'm not really taking much time off.

Anna 19:52

Yeah.

Phoebe 19:52

And I know a marathon's, like it's different from a holiday, but it, it's giving me something to

Anna 19:58

look forward to look forward to. Yeah. Year and like purpose.

Phoebe 20:01

Yeah. And I think, and the other thing I touched on the substack. I actually wrote a lot more of it, but it was so late at night and I didn't know how to edit it. I took a lot of it out. Is that I am feeling such a sense of. I'm not, I'm becoming less good at sitting in ambiguity. Yeah. And sitting in discomfort. And especially at work I noticed with like chat, GBT and so on, like I'm so bad at sitting in that space of just like, Work through it.

Anna 20:22

trying to work things

Phoebe 20:23

through. Yeah. And so, I feel like running and especially that kind of marathon, like structured running with a big goal. It feels so, it feels like the complete.

Anna 20:33

complete Opposite. Opposite of that. Yeah.

Phoebe 20:35

it's on the other end of the

Anna 20:36

story. Yeah.

Phoebe 20:36

It is like requiring so much discipline and sitting and discomfort

Anna 20:40

and time

Phoebe 20:40

breathing through it and just enjoying it. And accepting it and, it's kind of funny, like a lot of the discussion that I was having with Georgie and Bronte and Jazz last night is like about meaning and the meaning that we find through running and like if it's real meaning or not. Yeah. Yeah. Because we we're talking, this is gonna sound off topic, but we're talking about how like. People are kids later and so on. And the things that we usually would use to find purpose, people are using running as a way to find purpose. but It's kind of an empty purpose in a sense'cause it's not actually contributing anything to the world or whatever. But I do think it can provide a

Anna 21:12

Yeah. No, I, I kind of disagree though, because I feel like, much purpose is like kind self-interest. So why is it any less important than anything else you do? because like in the scheme of things, if you actually think about it, none of what each individual. Does really

Phoebe 21:27

Matters. So, yeah.

Anna 21:29

why is then running meaningless? Yeah. That's in comparison to everything else.

Phoebe 21:33

I don't think it, I definitely don't think it's meaningless. I think that's fair. I think it's, I think there are more meaningful things. Yeah. More meaningful vocations

Anna 21:39

Yeah.

Phoebe 21:40

but I do think,

Anna 21:41

in arable

Phoebe 21:42

that it does provide a sense of meaning and almost the clearest example of that is the post marathon blues where people feel like, whoa, what? What do? I do? Like, how do I,

Anna 21:52

or when people are injured, it's'cause

Phoebe 21:54

Oh my God. Exactly. When they're injured. Yeah, they.

Anna 21:56

they.

Phoebe 21:58

Those other people. so to summarize all of that, I'm really excited and I'm in, I'm in, my second week of training now. I'm feeling really good. I'm, I've already, like, had multiple days where I've been cause things have been really full on at work

Anna 22:14

Mm. Where I

Phoebe 22:15

I have. not run or done much like today, I was meant to have a 90 minute run and I just ran for 35 minutes after work.'cause I was like, number of reasons, but I don't have time and I don't have the energy. And I'm like, oh, that's actually totally fine. Like, I don't mind. one thing that we did do is we.

Anna 22:32

actually

Phoebe 22:32

Actually popped on our Instagram. We shared this, substack, and we asked, Some of the listeners why they're doing marathons.

Anna 22:37

Yeah. And of the most popular answers I really loved, particularly this one was that proving to myself that I can do hard things that came up or some sort of iteration of that came up so much

Phoebe 22:49

And.

Anna 22:50

and I don't know. There was something about it that I really love'cause I feel like you resonate with it a lot, but sometimes you sort of think, oh, is it Is that just me,

Phoebe 22:57

yeah,

Anna 22:58

bit silly or exactly whatever, but reading so many, others, lines or however they worded it, I was like,

Phoebe 23:04

it's such a,

Anna 23:05

it's quite inspiring.

Phoebe 23:06

and it's such a pure drive

Anna 23:08

Yeah, it is. I just, I'm not

Phoebe 23:10

not doing it for anyone else. Mm-hmm. I'm not doing it to a lot of people see marathons almost like an ego thing, like do a time

Anna 23:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 23:16

like hit that big goal. And of course that's part of it. But I think for 90% of the responders it was like this. Personal thing, like I wanna prove that I can be tough, that I can like do hard things, that I'm able to do this and that is pretty much exactly why I'm doing it. Really like

Anna 23:31

Yeah. I

Phoebe 23:31

prove to myself that I can, can do this challenge. And then the other one that came off quite a bit was that craving

Anna 23:37

a challenge.

Phoebe 23:37

a lot of people were just

Anna 23:38

like,

Phoebe 23:39

I'm, I need something hard. Yeah. I need, and, and I almost think that speaks to what I was saying before about being able to like sit in discomfort. Like I think people are, people are missing that in

Anna 23:50

Yeah. Yeah. Well, everything at the moment is so you sort of click your fingers and you have it. Everything's so easy to get all the time. So,

Phoebe 23:58

Running is still never that. never

Anna 24:00

it never is. And it's never sort of like

Phoebe 24:01

there's no shortcuts.

Anna 24:03

straight line.

Phoebe 24:03

Everyone just has to do the work.

Anna 24:05

Yeah. It's

Phoebe 24:06

equalizing in

Anna 24:07

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um,

Phoebe 24:08

are a few other good responses.

Anna 24:10

Yes. One was. Redemption, which I actually quite like. I, the only thing I worry with that is I think if things don't go well, you almost, it's worse than before. Yeah. So I don't, I don't know. I mean, not that we're here to judge people's running wise,

Phoebe 24:29

poor people, sorry. No,

Anna 24:30

But I just feel like you need more than redemption.

Phoebe 24:32

You do need more than I think it can be a factor.

Anna 24:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 24:35

have to also just want to do it as Well

Anna 24:38

Well articulated

Phoebe 24:40

the other one I liked, my ex ran a faster

Anna 24:43

match. Yeah.

Phoebe 24:43

me. Yeah. That would be motivating.

Anna 24:45

That would be so motivating.

Phoebe 24:47

Yeah. and I need to beat my sister.

Anna 24:50

xx.

Phoebe 24:50

xx,

Anna 24:51

Don't forget it.

Phoebe 24:52

it.

Anna 24:52

Um, one I also liked was, I honestly have no clue, which is Fair.

Phoebe 24:56

yeah.

Anna 24:57

I feel like sometimes people, you just find yourselves in this, this position. You're like, I actually dunno why I'm

Phoebe 25:02

There's definitely a subsection of people who like every run, like, how did I.

Anna 25:06

yeah. How did I, how am I somehow on this start line?

Phoebe 25:09

Yeah. But, so to wrap this all up, I, me, we mentioned right at the top, but Lululemon has given us 15 tickets.

Anna 25:16

entries

Phoebe 25:17

to the Melbourne Marathon to

Anna 25:19

Woohoo. These

Phoebe 25:20

can also be half marathon entries, I believe.

Anna 25:22

Yeah. Or 10 K.

Phoebe 25:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 25:24

yeah.

Phoebe 25:24

If you are keen to race that weekend, we still have, when this comes out, it'll be about 11 weeks, which perfect training block. Yeah. So the way that you enter and, potentially win is just shoot on an

Anna 25:37

idm. Yeah.

Phoebe 25:39

And we just talk through, I mean, we just talk through why I wanna do it and, and why a whole bunch of listeners wanna do it. But tell us why you wanna do it. Like what, what's driving you to want to do a marathon? And

Anna 25:48

And we'll pick the winners from there.

Phoebe 25:51

Yay.

Anna 25:52

Very exciting. So the last segment of the last segment of today is the rundown, which is where we unpack what's been happening in the running world of late.

Phoebe 26:04

I'm so excited for this'cause I haven't prepped this bit at all, and I've just had a look and you've done prep.

Anna 26:10

I have actually tried to minimize it.

Phoebe 26:13

So

Anna 26:13

what we're talking about is Ruth

Phoebe 26:15

Che,

Anna 26:16

Chedi. Gosh, I'm gonna call her Ruth from now on, and I apologize. Ruth is, if that is not how you pronounce your surname. Anyway, she is a Kenyan marathoner made headlines last week for being provisionally banned. Due to testing positive to a banned substance after, breaking the women's world record in Chicago She's 30 years old. A lot of the ti a lot of the time I feel like People, associate athletes who've tested positive with the drugs, that maybe they've like, come out of the woodwork, were kind of a nobody earlier and then all of a sudden have like really, really improved. Although her times have obviously improved a crazy amount. She actually won the world champs, which I, I actually didn't know any of this. She won the World Championships in the marathon in 2019, and then she's also won. The Chicago Marathon, which is one of the world majors in 20 21, 20 22, before breaking the world record in 2024, which was at the end of last year. And that is when, so it was that world record. So it was that Chicago win that really. Drew a lot of attention to her and there was, there was just a lot of suspicion around her breaking the world record. So

Phoebe 27:34

So why, why was that? what times was she doing and how much of a jump was that, if you know?

Anna 27:39

So she ran the marathon in 2 0 9 56, which, so she was the first woman to not just break two 10, but also break two 11

Phoebe 27:48

and hadn't, two 11 was only broken. So

Anna 27:52

a couple of years ago and that world record,

Phoebe 27:55

was like a four minute world

Anna 27:56

was a record by I think just over three minutes. Yeah. So crazy.

Phoebe 28:00

was already so it was,

Anna 28:01

that was already insane.

Phoebe 28:02

feel like it was like two 15 for ages. No

Anna 28:05

Yeah. So Paula Radcliffe had, the people but Paula Radcliffe from England, had the world record, I think from, I think it was 2003 maybe plus or minus 10%. It might've been 2005, but I'm pretty sure 2003 and hadn't been broken since then. And then a sfa, from Ethiopia.

Phoebe 28:23

Ty?

Anna 28:23

Yes. broke it a few years ago and broke it in two 11 something. I can't remember what exactly. and

Phoebe 28:30

because I remember that happening and everyone

Anna 28:32

that was huge. And everyone even with that was a bit like, oh wow. Yeah, that is. Super fast.

Phoebe 28:37

Yes.

Anna 28:38

Um, anyway, then Ruth has come out in October last year in Chicago and yeah, broken it again, absolutely smashed it. She also, for the first half marathon. So breaking the marathon into two half marathons. The first 21 K she did that was the fifth fastest time ever by a female to run a half marathon. And then her second half was the 36th fastest ever half marathon.

Phoebe 29:08

Wow. Crazy. Wow.

Anna 29:10

Yeah. And

Phoebe 29:11

didn't she get like a 5K PB or something?

Anna 29:13

I'm actually not sure if she got a 5K PB, but the first 5K she went out in was 15 minutes flat, which is three minute pace, which is.

Phoebe 29:19

crazy.

Anna 29:20

crazy. I mean, that's really not that far away. Well, from like getting into the world champs in a 5K.

Phoebe 29:27

Oh my God. Yeah.

Anna 29:28

anyway, So she was notified of her positive result in April this year. she tested positive to a band diuretic called Hydrochlorothiazide. diuretics are often used to actually hide other performance enhancing drugs. So they're sort

Phoebe 29:45

this

Anna 29:45

like a masking agent. the thing is though, because this test result was from after. her world record. The world record will still stand, as all of the rules are set at this time, the world record will still stand'cause there's no, there's no proof to say that like she was

Phoebe 30:00

was

Anna 30:01

Doping at that time. which people are obviously a little bit, but that's just the rule

Phoebe 30:06

That's just the rule. Yeah,

Anna 30:07

Yeah, yeah. but so this diuretic that was found in her system, it wasn't just a trace, it was actually 190 times over the allowable limit.

Phoebe 30:15

Oh my God.

Anna 30:16

has been cooperating with the athletics integrity unit since being notified of her positive test results, meant that she pulled out of. London Marathon this year, which would have actually London Marathon for her. The way these, like elite marathon runners sort of earn a living is obviously by their sponsors, but obviously they get an appearance fee from these world

Phoebe 30:36

mm.

Anna 30:37

So she and like would've won. So she was already, like dropping out of that. and I think potentially maybe, one, because she's cooperating, but also if she accepted the band from then, because it's a diuretic

Phoebe 30:51

Mm.

Anna 30:52

rather than actually being a,

Phoebe 30:55

the sub, the

Anna 30:55

the, yeah. She will is provisionally banned at the moment for two years rather than four years. So by serving her,

Phoebe 31:03

oh, she's starting it earlier.

Anna 31:04

Ban of two years. It will mean she'll be back in 2027, which is

Phoebe 31:10

she'll be like 32.

Anna 31:12

yeah, yeah. Which is still so young.

Phoebe 31:14

will they be able to actually find. Drugs or it doesn't matter. Like they're not gonna even try'cause they're like, no, we know that you've done

Anna 31:19

Oh, I'm sure. No, I'm sure they'll look over the sample like a million times. And also probably look at the samples that she had around, at the end of last year. but the thing at the moment that she's getting banned for is,

Phoebe 31:31

The is the,

Anna 31:32

the diuretic. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 31:34

and I know you said, that it didn't apply to that race because the, that marathon World time was prior to this, but for a race that had been closer, that was relating to this specific test, would you have to like, back your prize money or anything? Like how do

Anna 31:48

Yeah, so the interesting thing with some of these world majors I was reading is that I didn't actually know this, but a lot of the time the prize money is kind of in installments.'cause sometimes they, they earned a lot of prize money. I can't remember the exact figures, but I vaguely remember it being around sort of like a a hundred ish hours. And then there's like another bonus for breaking the world record. they were giving it in installments, so no one actually knows if she's actually been given all of the

Phoebe 32:12

installments. Oh, interesting.

Anna 32:14

And then, but I guess don't dunno if the Shuck Up Argo Marathon technically still have to her

Phoebe 32:19

it to her. Yeah.

Anna 32:20

'cause it's not as though she was banned

Phoebe 32:22

that. Yeah.

Anna 32:23

there is, it is interesting though, history tells us that like a lot of people. A band or found that they test positive for something years and years later because the testing's better. um, progress of drugs and um, performance enhancing drugs and also like operations. Often it's not until much later that the testing's kind of caught up to that. Yeah. So like famously, I feel like. Do you remember? I think it was Marian Jones, the US Olympic Runner. She won all these gold medals, never had a positive test result. And then it was like years later that she ended up testing positive.

Phoebe 32:59

So what are the,

Anna 33:00

cause it's like, because they like go back and

Phoebe 33:02

and, yeah. test the

Anna 33:03

samples.

Phoebe 33:03

What are the, athletes saying about this?

Anna 33:06

So understandably, I feel like a lot of athletes are pretty upset as, as well as the broader running community. I actually really love this Olympic marathoner. Emily Sisson posted the following. I thought she articulated it really, really well. So I'll just read it out. ignorance is bliss is how you have to operate on a starting line to give yourself a shot and not count yourself out of any race. Plus you can have your own gut instinct, but you can never really know. What has been something that has been hard for me to swallow lately is feeling like trying to keep up has really taken a toll on my body. I try to keep things light and positive, but when this news break, it feels like such a punch in the gut.

Phoebe 33:42

God.

Anna 33:42

So it would be, it'd be so hard because it's not as though like you are pushing your limits more as well.

Phoebe 33:50

Yeah.

Anna 33:51

you're like trying to keep up, you're trying to do more training, you're probably gonna get injured more. Like how do you.

Phoebe 33:56

do you stay motivated?

Anna 33:57

Well, I literally think you kind of almost have to have your head in the sand and just

Phoebe 34:00

you have to think

Anna 34:01

it. Like compartmentalize.

Phoebe 34:02

Yeah. It's funny to like throw back to, Alan has games episode this. This is sort of why.

Anna 34:08

they

Phoebe 34:08

want to do the enhanced games on one or why they say they do at least is because it's not, doesn't feel like it's an even playing field.

Anna 34:16

No. Yeah. When it should be. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 34:19

And how big of a problem is this? Like do, is this just like a one-off freak thing or do you think there's more happening?

Anna 34:26

Well, I mean, not everyone that is doing.

Phoebe 34:30

taking

Anna 34:30

performance, enhancing drugs is obviously getting caught at the moment. There are currently a hun, like at this time there are currently 140 Kenyan athletes on the athletics integrity unit, global list of ineligible people.

Phoebe 34:43

Oh, so who are actively banned.

Anna 34:45

So that was on the, is there

Phoebe 34:46

athletic for in athletics.

Anna 34:48

That was the 1st of July. So in contrast, so there's, there's systematically a huge issue in like Kenyan athletics. in comparison, India has 129 athletes on that list. Russia 61. Ethiopia has 15. The US has 14. Great Britain and Australia have zero.

Phoebe 35:06

wow. Keep

Anna 35:06

mind that, as I said before, like only a small fraction of dos actually caught. Right.

Phoebe 35:10

Also though, we, we wouldn't even have 190, we'd barely have 190 like

Anna 35:15

that are getting drug tested.

Phoebe 35:16

athletes. Yeah,

Anna 35:17

Yeah, yeah,

Phoebe 35:17

then 190, that is so many.

Anna 35:19

I know. It's crazy. I think the thing that's like, not to be like super cynical, but the thing that's hard is that feel like a lot of people think that like, if you're passing a drug test, that means you're clean. But kind of to what I was saying before, a lot of the time. You know, it's like a competition in the sense of

Phoebe 35:35

who Yeah.

Anna 35:36

more progressed. It's the, people and the doctors doing the drugs.

Phoebe 35:40

Yeah.

Anna 35:41

And the people trying to make a test for them. Yes. I

Phoebe 35:45

I was having this conversation with Carly, our friend Carly, on a run of, who would you be most shocked?

Anna 35:51

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe 35:52

like heartbroken if you found out they were doping?'cause there are definitely athletes who, if I found out they were doping, I would like not know

Anna 36:01

what to Yeah, yeah. Right. But it's, it's also crazy to think, coming back to the thing that, like the negative test results, who famously has never had a positive.

Phoebe 36:10

Lance Armstrong. Yeah,

Anna 36:12

Because like crazy. Anyway, so, um, I feel like there's. I can't say any of this stuff without kind of highlighting the bigger issue, which is the people like, it's not necessarily the athlete themselves, but it's the people behind the athlete and above them. So Ruth's agent is an Italian Frederico Rosa. He has a long history of representing athletes who failed drug tests, but he's still allowed to operate. Um.

Phoebe 36:38

Oh, interesting. Are there no repercussions the coach or manager?

Anna 36:42

so there was talks about him potentially getting banned. This was when someone else tested positive, but then he was allowed to keep working. Yeah. I think it's also really important in some of these situations. obviously I am very much Firmly against

Phoebe 36:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anna 36:59

performance, enhancing drugs and everything. But for a lot of these athletes, it is a chance at a better life for not just themselves, but their families. Um,

Phoebe 37:06

like their, their village like

Anna 37:08

They exactly like, it's like

Phoebe 37:09

Faith's faith gon has been able to fund electricity for our entire village and all this stuff. Yeah,

Anna 37:14

exactly. and coming back to, so one of my favorite books is written by a professional cyclist, Tyler Hamilton, The Secret Race. And he details his time being a, a must read, like really suggest that you read this. now that I'm a reader,

Phoebe 37:29

I've read it.

Anna 37:29

have you, oh, how good is it?

Phoebe 37:32

Rec It is amazing. Amazing. Like I. Yeah, the insight that it gives you to the slippery slope that is at that time elite cyclists, but now potentially it's some of the elite running community and it does give you so much empathy for the people who are kind of caught up in it

Anna 37:50

Yeah. Yeah. So Tyler Hamilton was a professional cyclist on a team with Lance Armstrong and he details his time, throughout that period taking performance enhancing drugs, and how it was just sort of like

Phoebe 38:03

the,

Anna 38:03

way of life for the team. Like you were either

Phoebe 38:06

was the expecta. You wouldn't Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 38:07

and he articulates his own experience, how it was a black and white decision between being a professional athlete by participating in the team's doping scheme or going home and giving up his dream of a, being a professional cyclist altogether.

Phoebe 38:19

It's, it's insane. But he has to lie to his whole

Anna 38:22

everyone

Phoebe 38:24

again and again and again. And you get the feeling reading it that it's like this catharsis where he can be like, I can finally talk about

Anna 38:31

yeah.

Phoebe 38:32

every single detail, how they

Anna 38:34

they

Phoebe 38:34

sneak the blood bags in to continue dope. on the tour, who was doping for what leg? That like allowed them to do what? Crazy feet. We'll put a link to it in the show notes.'cause it's

Anna 38:44

it's, honestly, it's so good and I feel like it's a great example because in his situation. I genuinely think he's a good guy. Yeah. And you see how, as you said before, how slippery the slope is. But he's an American. I don't really know his full family history, but you know, like he, he wasn't sort of funding his whole family or village or that kind of thing, imagine that on.

Phoebe 39:10

Um, I know

Anna 39:12

the pun. Steroids

Phoebe 39:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna 39:15

of knowing how much it will impact. Well, that could potentially impact all of your loved ones and everyone around you.

Phoebe 39:21

Yeah.

Anna 39:22

Anyway. It's tough.

Phoebe 39:24

It's tough. That's a great wreck though. Definitely give it a read and yeah, I don't know, maybe we can, we obviously don't have a solution to any of this, but I do think we, we never really have talked about it much on the podcast'cause it feels like a really big, scary thing to talk about. But

Anna 39:37

yeah.

Phoebe 39:38

we should talk about it more'cause it's very interesting.

Anna 39:41

it is interesting, but I feel like it's just so huge. Even then, I just feel like I didn't do an credit because it is such a huge story and there are so many, there are so many avenues to go down and so many things to kind of like acknowledge

Phoebe 39:54

as well. Mm-hmm.

Anna 39:55

Um, but yes, very interesting. Watch this space. We'll see what happens. Yeah, so the, it's a provisional band at the moment, so it's in review, so we'll see. Watch space. Tut. I think we, that's all we got time for today.

Phoebe 40:10

I think it is. I reckon. If we can finish with a request,

Anna 40:14

Mm.

Phoebe 40:15

have a look at our TikTok. Anna and I are on a journey

Anna 40:20

We're trying. We are really trying.

Phoebe 40:22

We have set ourselves a goal of posting every day for this season, think.

Anna 40:28

think. Yeah. And

Phoebe 40:29

on a streak. We're on a four day streak.

Anna 40:32

3D

Phoebe 40:33

No, for today.

Anna 40:33

Oh, is it four today.

Phoebe 40:35

For today.

Anna 40:35

Look at us.

Phoebe 40:36

So yeah. There's content that's

Anna 40:38

five tomorrow.

Phoebe 40:39

There's content that's getting shown on TikTok that isn't getting shown on Instagram.

Anna 40:44

It, it's like the kind of content that you maybe message your mom with.

Phoebe 40:49

mum's. Oh my God. That is such a good

Anna 40:52

sign.

Phoebe 40:53

about TikTok content. But we don't know about TikTok, so get around us. Tell us what's terrible and be like, don't post that. Yeah. And then if there's any, if we do anything, well give us some, like

Anna 41:05

give us what? I don't even know what you call it

Phoebe 41:08

love.

Anna 41:09

I don't even know what you call it on

Phoebe 41:10

Um, you, you like them.

Anna 41:12

you like it.

Phoebe 41:13

I think you love hearted it.

Anna 41:14

Okay,

Phoebe 41:14

Kudos. Give

Anna 41:15

us kudos, comment.

Phoebe 41:17

give us some kudos. But it's so good to be back.

Anna 41:19

So good to be back in your ears. And we Yeah, we can't wait to hear all about why we should pick you. Yes. For a spot in the Melbourne Marathon Running Festival.

Phoebe 41:29

Festival. See you next week. Bye bye.

Anna 41:42

So just to round things off, oh, actually no, I'm not explaining that again because I fucked it up.

Phoebe 41:48

That was right.

Anna 41:49

That bad.