Cheeky Run Club

The arrival fallacy

• Anna Coldham

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Welcome to a new week, friends!

 Ever run a PB, finished a marathon, or hit another big goal and kind of felt… eh? You may be experiencing what’s called the ‘arrival fallacy’.

 This week on the pod, we’re reflecting on times we’ve ticked off big goals of ours, how satisfied we felt afterwards, and whether the journey was more important than the destination.

We also have a lot of exciting news sprinkled throughout the episode – a chance to bag yourself a nice sauna outing before work in Melbourne, some awesome Lululemon events at the Sydney Marathon in a few weeks, and of course, we’ll share this week’s Lululemon Cheeky Champion!

 

LINKS:

-   Check out our latest Substack, ‘The ‘good enough’ marathon diaries’.

-   Register for Lululemon’s Sydney Marathon print shop, shakeout run or club house here

-   Check out Scottie Scheffler’s Interview here

-   Read olympic athlete gold bobsled article here

-   Grab a Cheeky jumper for yourself here!

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

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Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

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This episode is supported by Lululemon supporting cheeky runners every step of the way.

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Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast, and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Emma. And hello

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Today we are discussing an interview that rocked the sports world last week, and we're going to use that as a door to discuss the arrival fallacy, whether we feel satisfied by hitting running goals and what that teaches us about life more broadly.

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We are also going to talk about a fun surprise event we're hosting in Melbourne this week. Tell you about some fun things to get around at the Sydney Marathon and a award cheeky champion of the week who is helping us out with our toenails.

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Yes, exactly. But first, as always, we'll Kick it off with our notable runs of the week. Anna, tell me about your best running related activity this week.

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Mine was my walk home on Wednesday. Okay. It was so strange. From, so from work. Yes. I, went swimming Wednesday morning and then got a logistics that no one needs to know about anyway. And then one of our girlfriends who's just got back from Europe, Mel said she missed swimming in the morning.'cause she was a bit jet lagged. And she was like, oh, I can join you for a bit of your walk home. And I was like, oh, okay. That's nice. Anyway, so. Met her new work and then she ended up walking the whole way home with me, which was so nice. And then I took Ted, I was gonna take Ted to the park. So I was like, I'll just walk you down the street and then go to the park. Yeah. So then I continued to walk her down the street and then went to the park. And then I bumped into our other friend Jenna, who was just out for a stroll. Yeah. She was just going for a little wonder. Yeah. And then it was so, so I had this Jam packed afternoon with friends that I didn't, yeah, that I just didn't think was gonna happen.

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is so nice. So

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was really nice. It was also a really nice day on Wednesday.

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I was about to say, I do remember it was a really nice eve on Wednesday Eve. I also just think there's something so nice about bumping into friends on the street, just out and about. Yeah. And it makes you feel really like you are in a

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Yes. Yeah, it was. It was honestly so lovely.'cause you know, like it's obviously great when you see friends and everything, but you know how sometimes there's a bit of organization involved. It was just

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yeah.

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yeah. It was just so easy. I was

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Yeah.

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this is great.

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Walking home from work with friends would is such a nice way to catch up

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Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So anyway, hopefully she does that a little bit more often. We also have another friend, Izzy, that lives near my work.

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Izzy. Yeah, you

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just if you ever wander.

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Yeah. Get a little,

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if you ever feel like a wander. but yes, that was my best run ring related activity. What was yours?

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I'm gonna say my long run, even though

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I think that should

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good. I didn't love it, but I'm gonna make it my, I'm gonna make it my best.'cause it

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won't, I would be feeling so satisfied about what you're right now. Yeah.

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Oh, I'm feeling so, listeners, I literally finished my long run about. An hour ago. and I'm, I'm feeling like I was feeling really happy when I finished it, and now I'm feeling like it's sinking in. It's sinking in a little bit. Yeah. The, like, exhaustion from, it was a really, it was kind of a brutal run because I, it's a Friday. But because I'm going skiing this weekend and we're going up to the snow, I didn't wanna do my long run on the weekend'cause I have no idea how I'll do it up there.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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and I sort of just wanna be able to enjoy the weekend. so I was like, I'll get up and get it done early on a Friday morning. But a couple things. One that meant I was doing it by myself. Mm-hmm. Which like,

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it's hard. That's a Long time. By yourself,

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Only by myself. Two, it was like, normally when I do my long runs on a weekend, you can sleep in a bit and start

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Yeah. Yeah.

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I wanted to start early'cause there's lots to do today. So I still was like. I got up early in the dark and I had this plan because I knew I was gonna have to do about 36 Ks. I was gonna do a big cap city loop. Yeah. And add on a bit. so for listeners who don't know, cap City's a big loop that goes like, 30 something Ks that goes all the way around

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the CBD In

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Yeah. And it's pretty flat and like, but I didn't put two and two together that, because I was starting early, it would be dark and Oh, like the, the first big section of that is not lit. Yeah. And so I ended up just running. along the river, like from my, just literally along the river and doing laps up and down of that, which isn't,

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wait, that's all you did for the whole run? Yeah. Oh,

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I ran well, it's, so, it's about, so from the bottom of that bridge at Burnley? Yeah. All the way around to, Olympic Park is about 10 Ks. Yeah. Okay.

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Okay.

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I ran there. And then back and then there, and then I kind of cut back on the way. Yeah. And then the other thing was, it was so windy.

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Yeah. Yeah. It was a pretty brutal morning.

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It was like there were parts of the run that it was just this full on headwind and it was so hot and I had like some of this run I had to do at effort, pace as well. but however, I feel like I've just complained a lot. But it's my best run of the week because. A, I am really proud of myself for getting it

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Mm. As you should be.

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but B there were so many points in this run where I had to exercise mental toughness when I would just be like, I remember before I started, I had to do 4, 4 10 minute efforts. Yeah. towards the end of the run. So I was really tired

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And the third 10 minute effort. I knew coming into it, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be headwind the

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whole

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time. And I was just like, right, this is your

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Yeah, yeah.

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show that you can be like mentally tough, like, and like push through a bit of wind. and so. Actually quite enjoyed a few moments or a few moments where I was like, oh, I'm really

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yeah. When you're like

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like pushing like, come on, I got this. Yeah. Yeah. and so that was really satisfying and yeah, just good to get that one done in the bank. I only really have maybe one other run that long. Maybe there's

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two. Wow. Yeah,

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there's,'cause that was 36 Ks, like

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Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's, yeah, there's only about six weeks to go or so

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there's I eight weeks. Eight weeks to go. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I only have a shoe that are like

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really, really

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and then the alternate weeks in between a two hour, um, easy runs. Yeah. So I am like, okay, that's one of my hardest runs of the walk. Done. Yeah. Which feels quite

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nice. So cool. Yeah. Yay. I'm so excited for you. I was saying, it was so funny, you've run 36 kilometers and I had walked 300 steps.

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You're like

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I'm like, oh gosh. Yeah.

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No, you had a nice sleep.

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Nice sleep indeed. Um,

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what was your worst running related activity?

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Oh, mine, I feel like, what do you call those people that say the same thing all the time.

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Broken record.

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I feel like a broken record. I forgot my keys again and I had to go over the side gate and threw the doggy door

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they sort that out.

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I know. Well, ac actually through the doggy door. Yeah. Well,

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you fit through the

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doggy door. Yeah, well. It's actually okay how, this is kind of ironic. I've ordered an air tag. Yeah. Because I always lose my keys and I was like, I need to know where they are. Anyway, the air tag wasn't delivered and when I go on to track it, it says at a local TNT. shop, supply or whatever. And then I look around where I live. Local tts, there's 110 local shops that

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oh my gosh. That do those drop off things.

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kind of thing. And so I've like called them, emailed them being like, where can you tell me where exactly? Yeah. My air tag is. And I was like, I need the air tag turned on so I

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can find Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can find the air

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Yeah.

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Also,

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anyway, I'm trying to get better, but they're making it difficult for

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Yeah. Air tag will help. Can I like what is with those weird delivery stores?

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Oh,

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Oh, it's strange that that one that we go to, there's one that, there's one that whenever Lululemon sends us stuff, it goes to this random one, which is really close. So it's convenient. It's like halfway between our houses

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Yeah. But it's also about three doors down from an Auspost. There's a

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There's an Aus Post, and then there's this shop, which is

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it's a vape shop,

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But it's barely even a vape shop. There's one, it's an empty room and then there's a counter with bars. Yeah. And then there's a few, like there's one row of some vapes and filters. Yeah. And then the rest of the room is empty. It's So whenever I go in there, I feel so dodgy. I'm

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like, well, I have. Have you ever been in there with other customers? No, because I've been in there with two. I had to wait about 10 minutes.'cause they were both buying Four, five vapes each. Oh yeah. And they're quite expensive.

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Really? How much are they?

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they? I think one of them, oh, I can't remember. But I just remember being like, wow. I did not

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I would've thought they were like$3.

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Yeah. No, no, no. More like 50 or something. Really? Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Anyway, vape chat on a running podcast.

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topic.

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what is was your worst run of running related activity this week? Um,

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worst is. gym

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm. and it's not even to do with going to the gym. It's the gym that I go to is, you've been there before. Sweat a amazing gym. But unfortunately there's. Out the front, the bus stop, there's quite often some people who are not quite right. Mm-hmm. And particularly, there's a woman who I think does live there. Like she's always in the same spot on that bench,

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as in lives at the bus stop.

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it's like just behind the bus stop,

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Oh,

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against the wall. There's a little benches, which are tucked away. She's always sitting there. I see her all the time. Yeah. But lately she's been like on something. Yeah. Yeah. And when I went on, Tuesday night, she was like, looking at me like really angrily and it was a bit weird, but whatever. It was fine. I just walked straight in. But then I went again last night. I didn't actually go to the gym, I just wanted to go to sauna. and she she was doing this dance, which was fine, but then she like started coming up to me and doing the dance at me and I was just like, oh. Trying to get around her. And there was like no one there and it was quite dark and I was just like. I mean, it's funny because she was a woman. I feel way less scared than if that was a man. I would've genuinely been really scared. Like she was running, she was jumping, she was yelling. She would dance. But then she was trying to scare me. Like she was really coming up to me and I don't know, I have this weird feeling that she knows me'cause I see her all the time and she's always staring at

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me. Yeah.

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creeped out to,

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to, to go. Especially'cause you

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it.

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go when it's

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I know and I feel, I mostly feel really sad. I feel really sad for her. But yeah, I feel like

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tough as well.'cause there's no other entry to the gym. that's the only way you can get

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I have to kind of walk

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past

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her and now I'm scared

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to go to go

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past her. But yeah,

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Gotta get Big Sean. No. To the gym with you. Yeah, true. He'll protect you.

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you. yeah, I don't think she's ever gonna do anything. It's more just like, you know, when you see someone who is out of control.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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she, was last night, so out of control, like speaking another language kind of

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Oh,

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of control. Yeah. Which is, it's almost just distressing to see. Yeah.

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Oh yeah. a hundred

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of like dark chat, but just on the running podcast. Um, so well, let's maybe

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turn the

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chat to something a little bit lighter.

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our big event, you might have actually already seen on our socials, um, but we are teaming up with sense of self this week to bring you the most heavenly morning ever for 30 of our listeners. And sense of self is absolutely. it's heaven

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honestly. Yeah, it is.

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also a day bar and a bathhouse in Collingwood. For those who don't know, it's got a warm mineral bath sauna and cold plunge that we'll be able to enjoy. And

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this Haman steam room? Yes. Which is the most luscious room you can

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laugh in the

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good. Yeah.

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we'll head off on a short jog at six 30 on Thursday morning from the bathhouse, all paces or walkers. Welcome. So definitely don't see that as a barrier to wanting to come. and then we will come back and have 90 minutes to enjoy the different pools and saunas. Steam room before we all, jog off to work,

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So if you do want to come and you're free Thursday morning, you wanna come hang out, go for a run, go to the bathhouse, which of course you will do Send us a DM on Instagram and let us know what. You like to do to rest and recover after a run? Yeah. yeah, as I said, only 30 listeners will be able to come, so we'll just do a story when it's all booked out. but cannot wait to see some of you on Thursday.

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excited. Yay. we honestly Can't wait. We've been talking about this for so long, and like trying to get the ball rolling on it. But yes, we're so excited also for those who It's really hard to get into sense of

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Yeah, it is.

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It's, It

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It books out. They

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have been so kind with giving us two

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Yeah. And it's, they've booked out the whole bathhouse for just this running. There'll be no one else there. So even when we're there, you'd just be able to cruise around, chat to other runners, other people

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in the

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the cheeky community.

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We'll have some snacks. Yeah. Hopefully have some coffee.

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gonna try and organize some coffee and croissants. That's the

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Yeah.

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Okay. The other thing we wanna talk about is Sydney Marathon, which is coming up and it's. Just under two weeks ago away, which is so soon. So I imagine if people are listening and are running Sydney Marathon, they're probably into the taper

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the taper. Well done. If that is you,

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If you've made it to the taper, well

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Well, honestly, well done. I've never been there. it's actually Australia's first ever major, which is absolutely huge. we, I don't know for any running. Nuff myself, the fact that we are having a major in Australia is just like, blows my mind. Like Oggi is gonna be in

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Oh, Anaan

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Crazy.

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han the Efan. If you're running, you're gonna be running with Efan, who is just our absolute hero.

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so our Lululemon friends have got a few things on for the weekend that are sure to be a hit. We'll pop the link with more info and registration and the registration forms in the show notes for you. make sure you do register for the event, so as they will sell out the first. Is the Lululemon Print Shop, which is such a cool idea. their launching an interactive popup, that is just steps away from their store in Westfield at the Pitt Street Mall. And so runners can have their Lululemon kit printed with customized graphics, which they would doing on the Gold Coast,

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It's literally so fun. And I feel like we often talk about like pre-race, rituals or fun things do with your friends to really like lean into the energy of the

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race Yeah.

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This was so fun

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was so cool. And you don't even have to be running, like spectators can do it too. You can personalize your own cheer signs, which I reckon would be so, so fun. And

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it's so nice now with like, even with the clothes that I raced in, they've got the little like Gold Coast. Gold Coast, yeah. And it's such a nice memory to have. Yeah, so that's a fun thing to do. The other thing, they are doing a shakeout run, around Centennial Park. it'll be on Saturday morning from 8:00 AM and wrap up about 10:30 AM There will be a DJ at the end. There'll be music. they always do the shakeout run so well. So definitely get around that. If you're looking to join in a shakeout run, I know a lot of run clubs are coming in. We'd love to see the community. Heading along.

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Yeah. And then last but not least, our favorite thing that Lululemon does. They're, having a clubhouse, which any of you that went to the Gold Coast Clubhouse or any of you that saw our photos on Instagram, you'll know how cool it is. they're doing it just opposite the finish line at Cargo Hall on the Sunday from nine 30 till two 30, so it will be a hub for everyone to recover. Connects like meet.

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It's a good meeting spot,

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I was gonna say, I reckon it would be such a good meeting

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if you're gonna try and, yeah, catch up, meet your friends somewhere after the run. That would be a perfect spot, to do that because I know a lot of people do that in Gold Coast and it worked really well.'cause you can kind of just chill out. And recover.

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hang out there for the whole day. Yeah, like we did

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Yeah. Literally my final Lululemon related tip, if you are looking at running gear to wear to race in the fast and free six inch shorts are really good. Yeah. I race Gold Coast and I've been using them for a lot of my sessions now. They're really good and their pockets are really good. Lots of room for gels. They've got like the back pocket right at the as well as the sides so you can fit in lots. And they're just super comfortable and they stay in place. So I've been really getting around them and you should do nice.

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nice. So thank you to Lululemon once again for making this episode of Cheeky Possible, and we will hopefully see everyone, getting around their events at Sydney Marathon. Yay.

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I mentioned right at the top of the episode that we wanted to talk about an interview that has rocked the sports world this week. I personally was only vaguely familiar with this person. Had you heard of Scottish Scheffler before?

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Uh, yes, technically I'd heard of him. Okay. Would I be able to pick him out in a crowd?

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No. Oh God, no. I wouldn't have had a

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he's a golfer for

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He's a golfer. He's a golfer, and I've been told by those who like golf that he is,

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your brother,

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is not just, he is my brothers, that he's not just a golfer. He's like. the next Tiger Woods best golfer, possibly the best golfer to have ever lived, apparently just the most unbelievably talented golfer. and the reason that he is been making headlines is because he recently won a big competition. I don't know what the competition was,

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right.

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which is not important. It's honestly not important. Yeah. And he would all, he would agree with that, wouldn't he?

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He would.

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it's not important. So he ran, he won a really massive competition and in the interview afterwards, we're actually gonna play about a minute of it for you because in the interview afterwards, he, he had a bit of an existential crisis. I'm not here to inspire somebody else to be the best player in the world because what's the point? You know, this is not a fulfilling life. It's, it's fulfilling from the sense of accomplishment, but it's not fulfilling from a sense of like the deepest, you know, places of your heart. You know, there's a lot of people that make it to what they thought was gonna fulfill them in life. And then you get there and all of a sudden you get to number one in the world. And then they're like, what's the point? And you know, I, I really do believe that because. You know what? What is the point? You're like, why? Why do I wanna win this tournament so bad? That's something that I wrestle with on a daily basis. It's like showing up at the Masters every year. It's like, why do I wanna win this golf tournament so badly? Why do I wanna win the open championship so badly? I don't know, because if I win, it's gonna be awesome for about two minutes. And then we're gonna get to the next week and it's gonna be like, Hey, you won two majors this year. How important is it for you to win the FedEx Cup playoffs? And it's just like, we're, we're back here again. You know? Um, so we really do, we work so hard for such little moments and, um, you know, I'm kind of a sicko. I, I love putting in the work, I love being able to practice. I love getting out to live out my dreams, but at the end of the day, sometimes I just don't understand the point, you know, because. I, I don't know if I'm making any sense or not, but, um, am I not? It's just, it's just one of those deals. You know, I, I love the challenge. I love being able to play this game for a living. It's, it's one of the greatest joys of my life. But does it fill the deepest, you know, wants and desires of my heart? Absolutely not. You know, that's why I talk about family as being my priority, because it really is, you know, I am blessed to be able to come out here and play golf, but. If my golf ever started affecting my home life, or it ever affected the relationship I have with my wife or with my son, you know, that's gonna be the last day that I play out here for a living. You know, this is not the be all, end all. This is not the most important thing in my life, and that's why I wrestle with why is this so important to me? Because, you know, I would much rather be a great father than I would be a great golfer. It does, it goes on, it goes for five and a half minutes of

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Yeah. But that's the, that's

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the, that's the gist. That's, that's the absolute gist.

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where, where should we start? A lot to unpack.

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A lot? To unpack? Yeah. For Scotty, so that this is. kind of spawned this, uh, huge amount of people writing about, what is called the arrival fallacy, which is something that we wanted to talk about, talk about today. And so essentially to kind of wrap that up, what that means. the arrival fallacy refers to the mistaken belief that finally arriving at a long sort goal will deliver lasting happiness, whereas in fact, arrivals sometimes. Sort of recalibrate the happiness bar and just send us chasing the next ever greater milestone. so this, it, it is really rare, I think to hear an athlete or someone at the top of their game sort of cut through and say, actually, like, I don't, this doesn't mean that much to me. which is probably why it sort of captured the collective imagination so much.

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Yeah, I think, I mean we've, we've sort of spoken about this a little bit off air, but I think in, obviously we're not all the world number one golfers, but I feel like we all have experienced something along the lines of everyone, or a lot of people, you know, especially in running, like you're striving for something, whether it be like a race or a time or whatever. And I think there's probably like a lot of experiences that people have had where they achieve that goal. And think, oh, cool, that's awesome for a little bit. Yeah. And then all of a sudden maybe just don't feel, I think it's about like not feeling the sense of satisfaction that you. Thought you would need. Yeah. Like one of the articles that I read, it's the idea, of the middle aged guy who decided to climb Mount Everest with the idea that standing atop of the world will inaugurate a new life. but that guy is still just himself when he

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Yeah, when he gets there. Well, it's, yeah, it's not a new, even though, like, I don't know, I think the, the term arrival fallacy was only coined sort of recently. I don't think it's a new idea for humans. Like, it made me think of, um, Sisyphus, do you know

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No, I'm not familiar.

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Greek in Greek law. The, so Sisyphus was basically, Did something to anger the gods, and I don't exactly know what it is. but basically his, the punishment for Sisyphus was he was condemned to this eternity of struggle where there was, a boulder and he had to roll it. he had to roll it up the hill, but every time he got to the top and like finally got to the top, it would roll back down. And it's sort of that sort of, the personification of that concept of endless toil and like as soon as you get there, you that, quest is never achieved like you never actually arrive. Yeah. Which is sort of like the ancient Greeks wave of like. Talking about the arrival

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

party. The arrival, yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

So it's definitely not something that's unique to, modern human or like, it's definitely not something that's unique to like us now or even Yeah. To running really?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Or, yeah, just to sort of like professional sports person. Like I feel like there are so many things that could trigger the same mental script, like might be a first marathon or job promotion or, Starting a podcast or

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

mm.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

do you know what I mean? Like it's not sort of, it's like in all facets of life in a sense. Yeah. there was inter, I mean, I, I don't know if you've ever listened to or like heard about this, but there's often, like after the Olympics, like, have you ever had the post Olympic blues that like ath, like a lot of athletes get and it's always like they for a lot of the time, their whole life. Because a lot of people might just go to one Olympics. Their whole life has kind of been leading up to you know, you're a little kid and you wanna go to the Olympics. Yeah. Like that's their like big goal and then they go and come back and then don't know what to do with themselves kind of

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. Especially like, well I actually don't know, especially, but I think a lot of people go to the Olympics and like don't necessarily achieve what they

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

what they, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't, but even if you did though, like I feel like it's the same. Yeah. It's kind of the same concept. It's just,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

just going there is really the achievement.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like the Olympics. Olympics, yeah. But then you come home and you're still the same person.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. Can you think of a time in your life, maybe in your running, but I can be in more broadly, where you feel like you've had a goal and you thought, once I achieve this. I'll be happy, but then you got there and,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I feel like I've had that before, but I've never achieved that goal. Oh, yeah. So I, so I don't, I don't actually know what it's like, but I may, I guess to a point, speaking at it from my own experience, you know, when you've run a pb Yeah. I don't know if you've ever had this, but I've, quite often, I feel like almost whenever I've run a pb not actually been. happy but not, yeah. Content kind of thing. And sort of my initial thing is oh, I can go,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

can go faster. Faster. What about, okay, when did you first I, in my mind this is such an amazing milestone, which I've never done, but is such a like big goal of my or dream of mine. Like when did you first break? 80 minutes for a half marathon.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

it would've been in 2023, I think.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

the Gold Coast?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

No, in, at Burnley. Oh, okay. Yeah. And

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

how did you feel after that?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I kind of thought I, I literally I think I ran like. Two minutes faster than my previous pv. And I wasn't even that I was happy. Don't get me.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

not. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

yeah. And I like had a great few hours but then I wasn't that.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

God that you

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I kind of,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

is brutal. That's even worse than there. I will faster. You don't even let

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

yourself I know, I know. Maybe there's something else wrong with me. No, but I dunno. I feel like Nothing changes. Your life does not change, like whether you run

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

No, of course. But like even, did you feel joy in that moment or were you just like, whatever, I don't care. No,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I did feel joy, but I, but I feel like maybe that's just part of my personality. I did feel joy initially and then I was like, oh,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I could do better. Yeah. Well it's interesting'cause another article that you found was written by about, again, about this same interview, which, was talking about, it was by a gold medal, Olympic gold medalist. Gold medalist in

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

in This is actually, should we, Oh, okay. This is actually kind of funny. I was like, yeah, there's this article by this gold medalist, all this stuff, and you look him up and he's all very on Wikipedia. There's like a lot of jargon words to make him sound like a big dog, which he is.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

obviously.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

but then I looked at what he's a gold medalist for, and it's like the four person bobsled, which is so fine, but for some

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

still amazing.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

But for some reason in my head I was thinking like champion swimmer.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's'cause he talks a lot about being like the best in the world and

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. And like o obviously

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

he's was so brutal. Anyway. Anyway. Not the point. Not the point. But he has this slightly different, and we'll link, a few of these articles in our, um, show notes for anyone who's interested. But he has a slightly different perspective, which is kind of like, screw that. You can actually get happiness from your goals. It's just more about basically choosing to be proud of yourself allowing yourself to feel that pride. Is that, would you say

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

yeah, yeah. That's literally, yeah. he sort of even says that he was, now I feel so like, it's obviously amazing that he's a gold medalist in the Bob Split, but he said my recent induction into the US Olympic Hall of Fame, like he's still glowing about it as he's given himself permission to

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

was recent.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. but like even then, like he's like set up a business and then left out and he said leaving that incapable hands still even to this day feels incredible. So I guess

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

it's, yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

that sense of being satisfied and not necessarily just like onto the next, I guess, I don't know. Definitely.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

because it's funny. And hearing you say that, like I can definitely, as in you say that you hit those kind of goals and it didn't mean that much to you, which really definitely resonates. Like I can

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

think of so

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

times where I've

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

got Yeah, I was gonna say, can you think of times like that?

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I can also think of a time When I first started at Run Crew, yeah. I set as part of my onboarding, I like set goals and one of them was to run a sub three hour marathon. Yeah. Which felt unbelievably unachievable. Like my PB at that stage was like four hours something. Yeah. And I was like, this is crazy, but like I'm just gonna write down some goals. And when I did the camera marathon and I got under three hours, for one that moment. Was like crazy, crazy. Like, I, I can, I cannot tell you how proud I was of myself. And I thought, I remember thinking at the time, it doesn't matter if I never run another

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

marathon. Mm. like I've done it, Like you've done

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

it. And I still sort of feel that as in I still, there is a part of me, which is like, I don't know if I'll ever do fast in that. And I don't really mind because I'm so proud that I did that.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

break that

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. And I did that. I'm like, that's, that was something which I just thought was so unachievable. And so I kind of get what this other guy, the bobsled Steve is saying, because I'm like, when I'm not thinking about day to day, it's not like I'm glowing with pride from it. But whenever I take myself back to that moment of finishing it, and I just remember like walking past the finish line and just being.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

like, oh my gosh,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Oh my God. I did something that I never thought I could, and I still feel that

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

that sense of

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

that pride and that happiness and like, I don't feel like I. And Sure. In terms of the arrival fallacy, I definitely obviously went on to like try and set more goals and like chase the next thing. But I also, I'm not convinced that that's a bad thing, that trait to always want

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

more, more. Yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I mean it obviously can be, yeah. There are worlds where like as long as you can be satisfied while you're doing

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah, yeah. Whereas it's so, it's so funny, like. When I think of when I was the most satisfied, I remember one of the first, I'd been injured for a long time and then I did a race. It was like the mountain to surf or something. Oh yeah. It's like an AC or seven or ac k. Yeah. Like it's,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Is that the one in lawn?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

in lawn, like before the pier to pub. And I remember crossing the finish line and being so happy because I'd done a race. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. And

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

like it wouldn't, I don't know. It's like I don't, I couldn't tell you for the life of me, I have no idea like what pace I was going at, whatever. But I was just so happy that I actually ran and like pushed myself hard and like had completed a race where it's so strange because then. I don't know, like six months on them when I'd been running for a lot and then, like arguably

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

getting big

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Then it

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

and feeling less satisfied. Yeah. It's funny, it almost shows the satisfaction you feel is not tied to the performance itself.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

No. It's the actual like effort

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

The meaning.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

meaning and the meaning behind it maybe. Yeah, or like I even think like now, like the next race I do.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

genuinely reckon, and I will be crying at the finish line. It'll probably be like the slowest race ever, but like I do not care at all. I just think it will be the coolest thing in the world.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

100%. Yeah. I think that's, yeah. What about in life? Let's step back from running for a second, because we love to use running as a metaphor for life on this show. Yes. that we do. Yeah. Do you think that you see this in your life outside of running as well?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yes. Yeah, for sure. I just, I think in anything, you get used to something, it's like you do something, you get used to it, it kind of like desensitized to it, and then you think, okay, what's next? Yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Like I even like to the point of if you put on a day-to-day things, if you buy something new, then think, oh, this would look really cool with this. Put it together the first time you're like.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

oh, so true.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I look amazing. Yeah. Second time, not quite. Then like by the fourth, fifth time you're like, oh,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Well that's the hedonic adaptation thing. I actually dunno if we explained this concept before, but hedonic adaptation is linked to arrival fallacy. That's that idea that like every time you achieve something, it just sort of raises the bar and you sort of adapt and your happiness always has this baseline that it comes back to. and actually there's some interesting research about people who've had massive life events, really positive or really negative. Still, when they come back to them in 12 months, two years time, they're all back to baseline. So you might have won the lottery or you might have lost your job. Yeah. And yet in 12 months time it hasn't got, so it's just this really interesting concept that like we have a, just a baseline happiness level, which also. It doesn't feel super motivating to me because then it's well, can can we change

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. And then it kind of refers back to what Scotty was saying. It's like, what's the point of anything?

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

what's the point of anything?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I find a really scary concept. Yeah. I don't like thinking about

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. But that's where I think it's less about trying to find some big event to spike it up

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

from one

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

point in time and more about what are the, which is all good. Like, I wanna say, you can still, I still

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

think yeah, like you're training for a marathon

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

out of, out of hitting a goal. Like that is one of the, it should be one of the greatest like satisfactions. But I think that it's also important to. Alongside that be being like, how can I make the journey really bloody enjoyable? Yeah, yeah. Like, what does like day-to-day practices look like? And feeling gratitude and like, as you say, like forcing yourself to like, be like present in the moment in

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

of

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

of like, I'll just enjoy this, rather than being like, oh, I'm onto

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

this. Um, yeah. Yeah. But I often, I often even think back to when you're running and doing sessions and whatnot, I, and there's, I'll read out this quote that this neurologist said, but I think it's actually the day-to-day stuff that I find satisfying. Yeah. Rather than the. Maybe less so the angle where I think I'll be satisfied. Yes. But it's more each day feeling like you would feel today, like I've done a long

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

run. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Like I feel so satisfied in myself. Or like I've done a session or like you go to bed and you're like, oh, I can feel my legs are tight. a hundred percent. Like I find that so much more rewarding Yeah. Than the like.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

yeah, and that's good. That's a great thing. So maybe it's about really consciously acknowledging that every day on

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Every day. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

and I know we spoke about this on the pub before, but I love the tradition of like, that our friend, our London correspondent leash does of after a run that she's found particularly hard, patting her legs and saying like, thanks legs. Yeah. Yeah. Like, thanks for getting me through that. And it's such a nice like comeback to Just the little efforts and being grateful for your body and your health Yeah. In those

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. so, this neurologist, Josh Turknett said perhaps we should reframe victories in sports, not as the goal we're looking, working towards, but as the byproduct of what does provide us ongoing reward and satisfaction, which is learning and.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

growth.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Then again, maybe the arrival fallacy is necessarily to motivate us to do what actually gives us ongoing reward and satisfaction. So in a sense it's kind of like reversing

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Like,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

It's like, well, to get the actual, even from what I was talking about before, to get the actual. Satisfaction, the day-to-day stuff, you need the end goal, otherwise you probably won't be motivated to. Yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

they're kind of both positive

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah, exactly. I feel like the only thing to be aware of is yeah, like putting too much pressure on that angle and expecting that it is going to change your life because it's not like you're still gonna be the

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

you still gonna be the, you'll still get the same

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

the other side. You can feel super proud of it, but like everything in your life

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

is Yeah, and I guess to take it back to. in our last episode where we included the quote from Jemima Montag Yeah. Is even, it was the sort of fra who one who didn't listen, go listen.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. Yes.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Um, but she was talking about after she just won Olympic bronze medal, she was talking about how like she really wanted the medal and like wanted to do a do well but didn't necessarily need it. And I guess that's like kind of setting yourself up in a sense to like live beyond. Whatever it is Yes. That you are like, trying to achieve. Yeah. So either way then if, if you do get it, if you do get it, amazing, but like you're still, the next day you're still gonna have the same Vegemite toast Yeah. As you would if you didn't

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yes. You don't actually need it. You don't literally

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

literally need it. Yeah. Yeah. it did make our, we were chatting about before, off air, we were saying like, is there. Too much. Where it becomes in that kind of regard, where you're like, I don't need it, blah, blah, blah. Does that ever go too far to make you think? Nothing ca nothing matters.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

yeah, and because,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I don't care

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

even like a lot of golfers, I think I have. It's frustrating to hear Scotty'cause it's like you don't even want this. Like you're actually saying you don't even want this and we want this so badly. So badly. Yeah. Um, and I do think to an extent there's a bit of, with sport it's like, what's the point if you don't really want it? Like I think the wanting is good.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I think it's great in any aspect of life. Yeah. Because without it, like, What does anything mean? Because

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

like, the thing is for Scotty, not that I am a golf watcher, but if I was. I wouldn't really care that much about watching him play anymore. Like I would find it really hard, whereas like, I'm trying to think of an example. Okay. sorry, maybe'cause we were just talking about Efan Asan before, but still one of the greatest moments in sport in my mind was Efan Sprint, finish in the

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

marathon. For The marathon. doing

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

wanted it.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. She wanted it

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Like she had, she like, she had the most insane intensity about her in what she was doing in that Olympics. And that makes it so exciting. Yeah. And now we're talking about elite athletes, not Every day how much we runners like ourselves. But I do think for elite athletes, part of me is like, come on. Need

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Need it. Yeah. Well, because I guess in a, in a sense it is like it's a source of entertainment. Yeah. Like you want them to

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

You want them to watch. You want that emotional like, yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. A hundred percent. I think there's also something

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

about,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

and maybe this is like a jealousy kind of thing. I can really appreciate the other golfers thinking, well, I really want it.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. And so like, why do you keep winning if you don't

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

so stop

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

it would actually be kind of annoying. It

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

would be so

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

annoying. Yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Imagine.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

But then at the same time, it's like, well, Scotty could easily turn around and be like, I'm not saying that. Like I don't. Necessarily want it, but it just doesn't, like I would way prefer to be a better dad. Yeah. And a husband. Totally. Like he, he even said in that quote, he was saying how he loves going out and grinding and working hard to like perfect his

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. So it's not as though he's like not putting in

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

the effort. No,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

He just like doesn't, and you know what, maybe, maybe that's why he can perform so well under pressure. Oh yeah. Because he's like. Like, I'm still gonna go home tonight. Like golf is like such a high pressure game. Exactly. And like maybe that's how, maybe it's actually his secret weapon

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

That would be really

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

That'd be really hard. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I wonder if it's the same with something like running or takes the pressure off

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I feel

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

better to want it. Yeah.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

No, but I feel like as well, whether the, results is conducive to how much you. Try in the sense that, you know, like running or swimming, you are literally putting in the effort where it's golf, you're obviously putting in a lot of effort, but it's different. It's not just like going as fast

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

It's like mentally

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

like mentally staying calm Like there's all these other,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

look at us, never played golf.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

to it. So I get, I don't think it would work in a running or swimming thing because if you didn't want it, you wouldn't actually, you wouldn't have that drive like Shan Hassan did to like Sprint after already doing. Like three other events at the Olympics in the like 35 degree heat. Oh, I love her. Oh,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

okay. Well, that was a very interesting conversation. Would love to hear what listeners think about the arrival fallacy, whether this has ever been anything that you have struggled with or how you manage it. If you do. Like, do you have a way to help recalibrate what, good performance looks like? How that impacts your happiness, how to enjoy the journey where all ears.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yep. Nice. So to finish off today's So to finish off today's episode, we are crowning the cheeky champion of the week.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yes, this

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

awarded by Lululemon. the question this week was from Charlotte, so if you're not, This is, you gotta get involved. Join our Strava group. We ask a question in there each week and whoever we think kind of has the most valuable answer, they are awarded the cheeky champion of the week and receive a gift from Lululemon. anyway, so this week's question was from Charlotte and it is, how does one keep their toenails intact when getting into longer runs and sessions?

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yes. So there were actually a heap of really practical responses here, mostly around sizing, half size up in your shoes. That seems like a pretty universal,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

and keeping your toenails cut short

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

cutting your toenails. you're checking out

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

I'm actually just looking at your toes toenails, because there are now, there's two now that are black, but I reckon it's, I reckon it's a bit too long.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Do you think It's too long? But my, it's,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

My

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

toe goes up higher than my toenail. Do you know what I mean? So I'm like, but yeah,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. But maybe the pressure.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, so we've actually awarded this, to someone whose name might be familiar, to. Attentive listeners, which is our friend Carly, who I'm sure commented, she comments out of the good of her heart'cause she loves getting involved and would not have been expecting

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

to.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

win anything outta this. However, her answer was so good and got so many likes, that we couldn't not award it. Do you wanna read this one out, Anna?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah. So, Carly has written in my humble opinion, no matter how hard you try, mostly you just can't. So instead, once they're gone, you go to Woolies, buy paintable, stick on nails for your fingers, and stick them on your toes. Oh.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

yeah. See that's what is confusing for me. Just brief interlude. It sounds, Carly, just some feedback for you. It sounds like you're saying put fingernail fingernails on your to toenails, which is that what she,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

uh, I didn't,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

but I think she, Anna has,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

to, um, anyway, I just,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Anna has assured me, Anna has assured me that you can get toenail versions.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

pretty, I'm pretty sure you can. Now I'm like second guessing

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

myself.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

but I've used them and my toenails are so fat. So there's no way a finger

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

no. I, I could not imagine how weird that look putting a fingernail on your, no.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

keep going. Okay. Okay. So instead, once they're gone, you go to Woolies, buy paintable, stick on nails for your fingers and stick them on your toes. The paintable ones ensures you can color match the fake to the fakey, to the toenails that have survived and been pedicured tried and tested by yours truly for many special events. Such as Anna's wedding. And you know what? I was walking down the aisle and I looked and I saw these glamorous toenails and I thought, damn, they must be Carly's.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

be car.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

so thanks to Carly for submitting that. But yeah, I think as well as the, by a shoe half size up and make sure your toenails are cut short. I, I guess

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

inevitable.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

yeah. And I am a bit of a sicko. I love having dead toenails. Oh,

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

such a,

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

it's just

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I feel like runners are so smug about like, oh yeah, I lost a few toenails. You

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

know? I know there's something, it's like a, it's like a, like

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

a war wound.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah, it's like a badge of honor.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Yeah, it's kind

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

cool. Yeah. Like the things I would do to have a black toenail right now.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

But yeah. Thank you Carly, and thank you so much to Lululemon for supporting this episode of Cheeky

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Woo. We'll be in your ears next week. Bye.

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

Bye. Okay. How long is that?

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

Few months?

ZOOM0065_Tr4:

I think that's 50. That's pretty good. Yeah. I always forget. Do you do? Yep.

ZOOM0065_Tr3:

It's like, not as though like your shit still stings. I don't know. That's such a bad thing,