Cheeky Run Club

Are you an impatient runner?

• Phoebe Pincus & Anna Coldham • Season 7 • Episode 7

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GOOOD MORNING sunshines!

Today, we’re talking about a skill that is truly under appreciated in the running world – patience. 

We discuss how it contributes to a sustainable and injury-free running program, and share how we’re practicing patience (trying to) while navigating sickness and injury.

We also delve into a scandal that has rocked the running world aaand Phoebe has given us a fantastic running rec that’s made her shin splints go away entirely, so be sure to keep an ear out for that!

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Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

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Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

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This episode is sponsored by Lululemon supporting cheeky runners every step of the way.

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Welcome to Cheeky Run Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Anna

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Phoebe.

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and hello listeners.

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we are talking about one of the most underrated but core skills in the running world, which is patience. We'll also unpack some absolute drama that's unfolded in the running world over the past couple of weeks in the rundown. And finally, I think Phoebe, you have a running related wreck, which is apparently your words not mine is awesome. So I am very excited to

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It is a biggie. If you've ever suffered from shins, you're gonna wanna keep listening. That's all I'm gonna say.

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but first of all, as always, let's kick it off with our notable runs of the week. Phoebe, give me your, gimme your worst.

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Oh, my worst was my long run, which you might remember. This time, exactly a week ago we were sitting down and recording our

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was the night before.

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it was the night before and, you were giving me a bit, a bit of a pep talk. and so I had that run. It was one of my longest runs of the marathon training block. It was two hours and 45 minutes, and I was trying to do it at four minute thirties, which I think I knew Maybe wasn't going to be super achievable for me, just with how I was feeling coming the back of that sickness. I feel like I'd recovered yet. So I actually did go out a little bit more, well, what I thought was more conservatively. but it was just so hard. I felt like I was on struggle straight from an in, not even, I reckon from like 10 12 Ks. hard and I like, oh, okay. Slow down, slow down a little bit, a little bit. And I just basically every K from then I slowed down the whole run and by the end I wasn't I just couldn't keep going at that pace and. I stopped, I was stopping so much. I was stopping every K just to have a drink of water. It was so hot and sunny I did an out and back run. I kind of just had to finish to get home, which I think was kind of a good thing.'cause in reality I think I fine to finish it. but I think if I had had an opportunity to stop earlier, I would've I was just like. I was so cooked. But you know what I did that was really bad is I had my gels, I had four gels, which I've been having my long run, and forgot to take the third one. I didn't realize,

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uh, you didn't realize that you had it in

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much until I went to get out the fourth and I was oh my God, still got my third. and I realized I'd forgotten to have it. And I think that was making a massive difference like that third quarter I was just struggling so much and. so I then had two at that point in'cause I was like, I feel I need all the energy to

Anna vid main:

Oh, the, yeah. Yeah. You get it in.

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yeah. get all in. But I don't know. It was, I know we're gonna talk a lot about patients in this episode, and I feel like I do need to talk about it because it was like quite a demoralizing run because it's very easy to have a run like that and be like, oh, I've lost all my fitness.

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Yeah. Yeah. Or

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or, or spiral a bit and be like, well, how am I meant do a marathon, which would be another like seven Ks? And I'm theoretically at a faster pace than that when that

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Yeah.

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like incredibly hard. so it was a bit of a demoralizing run to be honest.

Anna vid main:

No, that's fair enough. But you've come at the other side now by the sounds of things.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have current the other side and feeling a lot better and I am really, I'm really nervous my run tomorrow.

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

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but only'cause like, they're so hard when you're doing them by yourself and I'm really striving doing all my long runs solo past like. few weeks because I wrote about a little bit in the Substack, but because I've had so much on, on my weekends, I've to do them on a Friday just like solo. And that is not it for

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no, I think it's okay for like one or two randomly, but

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Yeah.

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cumulation of them. It gets hard.

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but I only really have, I have this and then. I'm doing 10 K in like two, three weeks time,

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Oh, a race.

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think two weekends time. Yeah. The run

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Oh, the Run PRI round. Albert Park, a, it's such a fast course.

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yeah, I'm for it. I, so yeah, that I have that which is kind smack bang in the middle my like five weeks that I've got left. So this is easily my biggest run I have which is at least I know that in the back of

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Yeah, I also think that will suit you.'cause I feel like a big taper will, like you'll freshen up and then you'll be feeling good as gold for the mirror.

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yeah, yeah. He is hoping. Um, what was your worst running related activity?

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mine, I don't know if you can tell by my super annoying voice, but I contracted the dreaded RSV from my father. Not that I'm blaming anyone.

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listeners, astute listeners may recall last week on the podcast were

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last week.

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yeah, you were saying Stop doing washing up,

Anna vid main:

Oh yeah, yeah, I was, I was saying what the, the importance of hand hygiene was. Alas, we are. anyway, I,

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what RSV actually is?

Anna vid main:

you know what, that is such a great idea. So it's the respiratory virus. I don't even know if that's how you pronounce it, but essentially it's a bad, common cold kind of thing. It's a viral infection that infects your respiratory tract, but it's only really been recent that there's been a test for it, which is why you probably have only really heard it in the last little bit. Anyway, I feel like we're getting into infectious diseases

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But it's like, yeah, we love our disease channel, this podcast, but it's it's kind of like the flu, right? It's

Anna vid main:

Yeah, similar. Similar, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a virus. yeah, I don't think I've been this sick since, I remember just after my hens I had COVID and I was really, really

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yeah, yeah,

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And I don't think been

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was like years ago.

Anna vid main:

Yeah, that was like 2023.

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it makes me think that, I must have been sick 10 times since

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since then, yeah. I know.

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have barely been sick.

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I know. I feel

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quite strong immune system generally?

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mm. I kind of almost think that, I don't get sick that often, but when I do it is

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Yeah. Okay.

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bad. Like I literally, I haven't even been able to, I mean, it's been good that I've been staying with mom and dad. I haven't even been able to take Ted for a walk they've had to take him for a walk. I've literally just moved from bed to couch, back to bed. I was thinking the other day, which anyone who works in healthcare will know, but it's like, I wonder if I'm gonna get pressure sores, which is like what you get from just like still

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not moving. still be moving

Anna vid main:

Yeah, no, definitely. But I literally, I remember on stage being like, be wary

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Do you feel like you've been that stationary,

Anna vid main:

Yeah, I've, yeah. Yeah. I would love to know. I mean, I wouldn't, but I reckon I would've done like less than a hundred steps a day.

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Anna, you poor

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but that's all right. Anyway, so that is my worst running related activity. a positive on it though, I will be immune for a couple months.

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Oh, huge.

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Huge drink.

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That's, that's, a big win. And then we'll be out we'll be out of flu season,

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Yeah. Yeah. So surely it'll fine. anyway, so that's me. Uh, have had a not so happy week of holidays being the

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Yeah. What a week.

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So also, I should apologize to everyone who is listening to this because I know my voice would be so annoying right now. So we appreciate it.

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I think everyone will be sending you a lot of love through their ears.

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Oh yeah, for sure. I feel like when you get sick though, you kind of get husky and like cute,

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No,

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whereas I just get nasally. I just, I just kind of sound like I've got a peg on my nose.

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No, you sound husky and cute.

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Stop lying to me. anyway, is

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sexy husky.

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what is your best running related activity?

phoebe vid main:

Okay. I am gonna go with Track Tuesday. although I think I actually really enjoyed both my two sessions this week. But track Tuesday, I was back in Melbourne, which I felt like I've barely been in Melbourne over the past few weeks. and I've missed so many sessions with friends, especially between like being sick and being away. So it was just so fun being back running with a group. working with the team a

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Yeah. Yeah.

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I appreciate it so much more. And I honestly love Track Tuesday sessions so much. We have such a good little gang the moment that they all do whatever session Gary gives me. It's

Anna vid main:

Oh, I love it when that

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the absolute best setup. Yeah. And we started a little bit more conservatively. I wanted to start conservatively'cause I'd been sick obviously, and I'd felt so terrible in my long run and was kind of like, okay, I just wanna, I'm just gonna see how I go. My body might still not be up for it. But then by the end of the session I was feeling really good and felt like I could really push myself and not feel exhausted. so yeah, I kind finished that and I was oh, I actually think. My body feels like a It feels really recovered from the long run and it feels like, I think coming back online, great.

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Yay.

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yeah, and it's just like getting a lot lighter on Melbourne mornings now

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Oh, it's actually, I, I did actually wake up this morning a little earlier. class. Crazy. no, because I had to, Ted got desex today, unfortunately for him. so had to go to

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activity for the

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Yeah. Uh, anyway, but it actually, I was like, oh my God. It's like broad daylight. It was 7:00 AM or so.

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Yeah, it's crazy. It's so exciting. what was your best running related activity?

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mine is an A-B-C-I-U TV show called UN Unforgotten. If anyone likes, I love crime show, good crime shows. my favorite is scan, like I feel like the Scandinavians do it very well. but good British crime shows are so good. Anyway, this is. one that I hadn't heard of before, but it's really good at, not that anyone would wanna know this, but they, it sort of, tracks their personal lives as well as their, like, professional lives and they all like, quite interesting stories and it's all kind of intertwined.

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Is it, um, are you gonna tr attempt to make it running related at all or We'll just can that for this week

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I think we'll just hand that for this week. Is that okay?

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We'll off. Give you a week off. Let's get into our core topic for this week, which as Anna said, right at the top, of the episode is patience, and we wanted to talk about patients. A'cause it was just, I think was kind front of mind for both of us, this week and over the last few weeks. and we'd sort of been talking about how it's patience is this skill that isn't really talked enough about in the context of running. I feel like it is something that runners need Exercise a lot of, I mean, recently we've been like, you know, whether it's like managing an injury or for, get better from a sickness. and I feel like it just feels like a very important element how to contribute to keeping running kind of enjoyable and sustainable.

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Yeah, I agree. and I kind of, I feel like with anything. In life, especially comparing to others and everything, it's very easy to become impatient. Well, I mean, I feel like we're all kind of inherently impatient with everything. you just wanna like be somewhere yesterday kind of thing. but yeah, I feel as if it is something that's really good to talk to about running and in

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so this episode we will dive into the concept of patience and impatience. We'll understand sort of what it is, how we can get better at managing it, and then, as always kind of thinking about how we can apply These running learnings to life lessons as well. I thought we should start at the beginning. I kind of wanted to understand what impatience actually is and why we feel it in first place. So I did some reading, or some research about impatience, and I found a really interesting, it's actually framework for describing emotions in general, that looks at emotions as adaptive syndromes. it basically helps us understand, what an emotion really is and how it's different from other emotions. And it does that by trying to understand three things. So it looks at in what conditions does it need to arise? What specifically triggers it within those conditions, and then what actions does it motivate? And the concept for this framework is basically if you understand those things about an emotion, that's sort of first step to building out kind of self-awareness and understanding and eventually like management of that emotion. So

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they are three points that are, they're actually, if you think they're quite hard to answer.

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They're really hard to answer. I was reading this article and I was like, that's so interesting. But I dunno how I would answer that for

Anna vid main:

No,

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but luckily it, it did for us. So, and I actually I think it was so clever and it has actually helped me like think a bit differently about patience and impatience. basically for impatience. The conditions that you need or that it says you need, is you need to have a, a goal in mind. It doesn't need to be like explicit goal, but something that you want to do. And generally we've accepted there'll be certain costs for reaching goal. So maybe the easiest example would be like, you have a goal of we've got an event that starts in 15 minutes and you know it's gonna, the cost is gonna take about 15 to drive there.

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Yeah.

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So that'd be the conditions. You've got a goal and you know that there will be certain cost achieving that. Then there's a trigger, and the trigger is that you learn that it's actually gonna cost you more than you thought to reach that goal. So to go back to our example of one before, it might be like, oh, you hit traffic and all of a sudden it's gonna take 25 minutes.

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Yeah.

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And then the motivated actions off the back of that is you basically start looking for ways to avoid those extra costs. So you might look for shortcuts. You might be motivated take shortcuts, or you might even consider switching goals. So if you are stuck in traffic, for example, you might try and look for another route, another way to get there. Or you be swerve in and out of cars in terms of like, of trying to avoid that extra of, traffic.

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This literally sounds like me every time I drive,

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Yeah, well what's, what's

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but the goal is you have to get somewhere for an event starting in 10 minutes, and it's going to take you 15 minutes to get there. That's like the

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That's the baseline. You've accepted that you're okay with

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Yeah. Yeah.

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yeah. What I found quite interesting about this framing of impatience is it feels like it's actually all comes down to your expectations almost.

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Mm. Yeah, for

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Because like if you had different expectations or you had accepted higher costs, or you had been open the fact that it might cost you more to achieve that

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Mm.

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then it would then be correspondingly harder to trigger. that, like lesson of learning that it's gonna cost more because you've already factored those additional costs. So maybe try and talk through like some specific examples in our lives right now where we might be feeling like a little bit impatient and potentially particularly in relation to running. Can you think of, can you

Anna vid main:

No, I'm not impatient anything. No. yeah, definitely. I, I feel like mine's boring. I feel like in the injury's a little bit boring in terms of this. Let's talk about the marathon. I feel like that is like way more interesting.'cause I feel like people can really, there are always so many different obstacles and like curve balls that are thrown at you in a marathon block.

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yeah, we can talk about marathon, but I think injury is a very, it's almost like a,

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Yeah, true. Okay, I'll talk about

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go, we. Yeah. You're like, please don't make me.

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We have a goal to run pain-free again.

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yeah. Yes. what are the costs that you've accepted?

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that at the moment I feel like you accept the fact that you can't run right kind of thing or like can't run pain free. You kind of come to terms with that a little bit, but then you obviously have the goal of running pain-free kind of thing. Um, so then you like do what you can in your power, like book in appointments, do your rehab, whatever. and then I feel like. A trigger would be that everyone can probably empathize with. Is that when you feel like you're like not quite reaching, the point where you thought you would be by that certain period of time? I feel like it's quite related to time, which I guess is kind of relevant with the, with the traffic example. I remember thinking like, oh, I don't have another physio appointment for four weeks. Oh my gosh, that is so long. And he says to just do my exercises in that time and then hopefully next time we can assess and see if I can run. And then I remember that four weeks, like passing and then getting there and then kind of feeling like I'm almost in the same boat as I was the four weeks prior and not being any closer to running.

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like as well with where you are at, you've kind of like had that happen so many times that actually your accepted costs right now are kind of it's just gonna take a while. I actually like maybe you are slightly less impatient now than even when you were first injured and you were like. I dunno if that's true, you tell me, but you're kind of a little bit more like, okay, well I've just gotta go through the process because you've had to accept all these really big costs already.

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Yeah, definitely. And I feel like I've tried the little shortcuts of. You know, I feel like I've even said on the podcast, like, I got annoyed one day and then just kind of like went for a walk around and that kind of you just wanna like or I don't know, you like, maybe it would be okay

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the classic,

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I feel like that's almost just like accepting that like it's not great, but you just kind of wanna like do something for your, like your mind more than Um, but yeah, I guess that. In a sense the like the motivated actions, consider switching goals. I feel like there's so many times where I've been injured, where I've thought this or said this to someone else and I feel like other people would relate When you're like, why don't I even do this? Like, why don't I just do that's easier or kind of thing.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. That's when like the, that kind creeps in or almost like, why am even trying to do this?

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Yeah. what's the point kind of thing. so I guess they're the, they're adaptive syndromes that cause patients in impatience for me at the moment.

phoebe vid main:

Well, you can definitely empathize with why that would be. and kind of interesting almost just to like identify the different roles they're playing and understand the actual triggers, I suppose.

Anna vid main:

Yeah, it is kind of interesting thinking of it in that. Framework, like one thing leads to another thing and then that leads to'cause it all. Like, yeah. When you look back on past behavior, it all does stem through that, your actions kind of thing. They're all sort of triggered by whatever has happened previously or like the

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Yeah.

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so yeah, I guess, I mean I do quite like this framework,

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Okay. Okay. Well try it out for,

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in a marathon

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yeah, we can talk about it in relation to a marathon goal for sure. But I also feel like I'm interested to talk about generally with running, just with the goal of like seeing improvements

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Getting better. Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

I feel like running is really, I mean, speaking for myself, but also what I feel like I tend to observe running. You almost go through this. Is it like an S-curve? it starts off. takes ages to see any and like it's a grind. a grind, grind, and then all of a sudden you can get these moments where clicks and you start to really improve quite quickly. And that might be like when you get a coach or start pro training program where you just hit like a base level of fitness that you can start to like really, really build on. And then I feel like it can kind of plateau again. And I'm sure you can S-curves after that. But

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but I like the increments are like marginal, like they're very marginal.

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Marginal. And I think, yeah, so you might have a goal of okay, I've improved my PB to, you know, 90 minutes for a half marathon and now I want to get to 88 minutes and then, you know that you're gonna have to train really hard for that and train hard and you rock up to the race and you actually just do like 91 minutes. And you know, I like that's when people start getting really frustrated that you kind of get stuck whatever that time is and part of that's like, oh, it's actually gonna be way harder than I thought.

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To, yeah.

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improving because I, I, improvements were coming so easily at

Anna vid main:

Mm

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in let's actually take this marathon as an example, this block that I'm doing at the moment. And I've accepted that yes, training, you know, I'm gonna have to train really hard to get there. Like excited about that. But then you get sick and you feel you step back 10 steps, whatever. And then I feel like that's when I feel the impatience.'cause now I'm like, well, I've missed a week of training. I've missed a bunch of. Runs now I've gotta make for it because I'm behind now like where my expectations were that I should be. and that's when, in terms of like trying to take shortcuts or whatever that looks it's like, okay, what can I like work harder than I should be working in this session to and

Anna vid main:

Yeah, can I like do more in a shorter period of time kind of

phoebe vid main:

Exactly. Yeah. but I think interesting is like. I feel like there's an actually conversation there about is impatience inherently bad thing like

Anna vid main:

Hmm.

phoebe vid main:

yeah. Like do you see it being a good thing or a bad thing?

Anna vid main:

I kind of think it depends on what we are talking about. I think in running it can be a really dangerous thing when your body's kind of on the line. in terms of like sickness and injuries and that kind of thing. I think the, key part is to be consistent and patient over like a longer period of time is gonna get you further. Then like a good block of training for just like six months kind of thing and like burning out for whatever reason. so I feel like in running it is really, really important. Like, I would say it's like one of the like biggest things. And I, I struggle with impa. I feel like I'm very impatient person in like all like assets of facets of life. But I think with some things it can, I feel like in a work sense it can actually be. Really positive, because it always kind of means you're like on top of things and like chasing things up and you want stuff done now, which of I think can like sometimes like kick other people into gear.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, I know what you mean. There are some situations where it feels like impatience works well because it means you don't get stuck sitting in the same situation for age and ages. You're kind of like, okay, I recognize this isn't going anywhere

Anna vid main:

hmm.

phoebe vid main:

with it. in those sort of environments where maybe they're like a bit more chaotic and there's a lot of change,

Anna vid main:

Yeah, and maybe things need a little bit of a push.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, exactly. Whereas some environments maybe that are more stable. and definitely, yeah. I mean, I actually agree, like with running Running's, the perfect example of it's a kind of like a waiting game. It's put 5 cents in the piggy bank every week,

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

you know what I mean? Like there's no shortcuts for running. There's no like, oh, all of a sudden. kind of like, might be terrible analogy I don't know that I fully understand this concept, but compound interest, don't you reckon?

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

there's an analogy there?

Anna vid main:

Yeah. I think it's funny. Are dating someone that works in finance? don't

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, I feel like it's sort of I mean just because I used the piggy bank example before, it made me think of like compound like keep putting a little bits, bits and chipping

Anna vid main:

Bit, yeah. Building blocks.

phoebe vid main:

and you don't even really notice.

Anna vid main:

Mm.

phoebe vid main:

actually dunno if that's

Anna vid main:

And then all of a sudden you're dripping in cash.

phoebe vid main:

all of sudden you are so fit. actually then it's not

Anna vid main:

No, I, no,

phoebe vid main:

Oh, don't think it is.'cause you don't actually just keep getting fitter and bitter and all of

Anna vid main:

but I think, but you kind of do you can solid and then you keep getting fitted. Yeah. I I think you'd.

phoebe vid main:

I don't think, I don't reckon you do. How can you plateau?

Anna vid main:

I think you plateau. No, I, I think, I think the improvements are way more marginable, marginal, and like almost harder to measure because they're so small. But I

phoebe vid main:

then that's definitely not compounding.

Anna vid main:

No, because I feel like it's consistently

phoebe vid main:

that's not compounding.'cause compound's not consistent. Look at a compound graft. They're like,

Anna vid main:

Oh, I thought compounding was just, you're literally like gradually getting like further and Oh no. It's when you're a little bit and then you spike, don't you? Yeah, probably

phoebe vid main:

No, it's not

Anna vid main:

Is that not it? Oh, my husband's kill me.

phoebe vid main:

no, yeah, I was about to say someone else's partner also works in finance. No, it's, it's basically like when the interest compounds, so it's, kind of like. It gets bigger and bigger each year, but bigger by a higher amount each year, even though you are only putting in the same amount each year because there's more interest each year. So it grows, the, like total amount that grows is much greater each year. year. Whereas Are you looking at a graph now?

Anna vid main:

yeah, yeah.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. Okay. If if anyone's, if anyone is still listening.

Anna vid main:

Let's, let's move on.

phoebe vid main:

But I would actually, I'm gonna retract it. It's not like compound interest and I feel like that's the wrong Kind of comes back to, I feel like to help with being patient with running, you sort of need to remember what your goal actually is.'cause if your goal is to constantly be getting better, better run and better for ever and ever and ever as an amateur athlete, is this too negative? I don't think that's gonna be possible as the right goal.

Anna vid main:

I mean, as I said before, I feel like obviously the improvements become a lot smaller, but I think if you, I think if you're doing it for the right reason and for the passion of it, then you're gonna end up better. You are gonna end up like a better runner than someone that's just impatiently doing it to faster over like a 20 year period kind of thing.

phoebe vid main:

For any. Yeah. Yes. Okay. I definitely agree with that.'cause that's like, I, I mean I definitely used for years was in a cycle of just like run, run, run, injure, and not get injured and not run for a And then I'd have to like really slowly build back up. yeah, I see what you're saying. So if it's comparing like two versions of me and one who is really impatient with their running and goes all hammers, hammer and tongs, then injured, and then injured, then you're gonna go up and down and not improve. Whereas if you are just gradually chipping, chipping, chipping, like Mrs. Consistency, then that, that is much more likely to lead to constant improvement. I still think the goal of constant improvement is not necessarily achievable.

Anna vid main:

yeah. You eventually class out. No, I dunno. I dunno.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, I can tell you're not convinced,

Anna vid main:

I'm not convinced, but maybe that's just because I need hope because.

phoebe vid main:

I know, I sound, I don't wanna sound like I'm, I've lost all because I definitely believe that I could improve. I guess like you say, you need put in a lot more, like for me to improve right now,

Anna vid main:

I don't necessarily that. I just think you have to do things differently.

phoebe vid main:

But that's what I mean in my life. Put in a lot, invest a lot more

Anna vid main:

Yes.

phoebe vid main:

whatever it is, feeling right? Recovering right, training harder, working

Anna vid main:

yeah. Which I guess is putting in a lot more.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, and you almost need to, I actually think the goal is not to always be getting better. It's what's the best I can be with the amount of effort I'm willing put in,

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

not even the best I can be. What's the most can enjoy it, the best, the most I can get out of it with right amount of effort for me.'cause otherwise you can end up in a situation where you're putting in enormous amounts of effort

Anna vid main:

Yeah, exactly. And also then as well, I feel like then you're less likely to do things like listen to your body and stuff, and then you're kind of probably gonna end up being more like the person that goes really hard, gets injured, goes really hard, gets you injured.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, I definitely

Anna vid main:

me?

phoebe vid main:

oh, and I, as I said, and definitely me as well, it is crazy to back and think back to how much impatience was driving that.

Anna vid main:

Mm.

phoebe vid main:

You know what I mean? Like this to to push and improve and

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Like be better.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah.

Anna vid main:

okay, so should we talk about how to manage it?

phoebe vid main:

Yes. We should, because that same framework that explained the conditions and the triggers and what it motivates, how to, similar corresponding framework for like how to manage which it's literally just an exercise in self-awareness. It's if you are feeling. Identify the emotion of impatience. If you are feeling the emotion of impatience or you think that's impacting your behavior, let's say in the context of running,

Anna vid main:

Mm.

phoebe vid main:

off by like stepping back and being like, identify which goal it is that's being frustrated.

Anna vid main:

Mm-hmm.

phoebe vid main:

So for me with I, was getting impatient when I was sick last week and I wasn't running as well as I could. the goal is clearly somewhere inside me. I care about my. Performance at the Melbourne Marathon. And much as I'm trying to not be invested in that, it's hard to not care.

Anna vid main:

mm

phoebe vid main:

Um, and I think comes back to the cognitive distance thing as well. Like, I'm, I'm training really hard, I'm training quite hard, so like I do care.

Anna vid main:

you are training really hard. You've literally running for two hours and 45 minutes by yourself to know.

phoebe vid main:

That's crazy.

Anna vid main:

Yeah. It's hard not to care when you're putting so much effort to something

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. So it's like, identify that, which even that for me was okay, that's, that's good to be aware of that. importance is creeping up in my mind almost like the more I let myself believe that I actually will get to the start line, which is so crazy, but I still, part of me is what if I don't

Anna vid main:

Get there. Oh, really? I mean, no, I think that's fair enough. you still, what, five weeks away?

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. You gotta have about you,

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Like it'd be, I feel like it's ignorant if you're like, of course I'm gonna get there.

phoebe vid main:

Exactly. And I think just because it's been so long, I haven't made it to a start line of a marathon healthy since Canberra in 2021.

Anna vid main:

Wow. That crazy.

phoebe vid main:

so I think my brain's just like, wait.

Anna vid main:

Which is enough.

phoebe vid main:

Are you gonna do it? Are you gonna do it? So anyway, first thing identify which goal is being frustrated. Number two, identify how the perceived costs of reaching that goal have risen. So

Anna vid main:

Well, I think in sense you are you've banked the time and effort. Now that's put in,

phoebe vid main:

yes,

Anna vid main:

and I further you get on kind of thing, don't you reckon?

phoebe vid main:

I do. But I think it was more like, I feel like at the time I was feeling frustrated.'cause I'm oh, I'm further away than I thought I was. Now that I've been sick. So that's why I was like, oh, I'm like not back where I wanna be.

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Yeah, but that's what I

phoebe vid main:

which isn't true.

Anna vid main:

if you had have gotten sick right at the start of the marathon block, you probably wouldn't have thought like that'cause you didn't really know. Like you hadn't already banked all of those kilometers

phoebe vid main:

Yes. That is

Anna vid main:

you got sick, you'd already done like however many long runs, a lot of solo and sessions and everything. You are like, oh my God,

phoebe vid main:

yeah.

Anna vid main:

like the cost has gone up just because my time

phoebe vid main:

I'm further along.

Anna vid main:

yeah.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. And then the third thing. Once you've been okay, that's the goal. This is how the costs have changed, Then the third one is actually just decide should you one try and find a shortcut? Should you two switch goals or should you three sort of settle in and come peace with the situation? And I feel like, I mean, with running, it's almost always gonna be that number three of just like peace with not, mediocrity, but with, Just being okay with wherever you land, I

Anna vid main:

Yeah, yeah,

phoebe vid main:

I said peace with mediocrity.'cause I was quoting that podcast thing that we were talking about before.

Anna vid main:

yeah.

phoebe vid main:

was actual

Anna vid main:

it was, I can't remember exactly, but it was essentially kind of saying like, how, like mediocrity should be celebrated more. Mm-hmm. yeah, which I kind of tend to agree with

phoebe vid main:

Oh yeah. Go

Anna vid main:

or, or like, I'm a lot more in like a running kind of sense because I don't know, maybe, maybe this is also just coming from someone who just Yeah, I've like, I mean, I've only ever got to one marathon style line and that was six years ago. but I don't know, I think maybe in the sense that mediocrity still means participation and that is above anything else for someone who's on the sidelines.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah.

Anna vid main:

So, yeah, There's something like mediocrity in. Running, I feel like,

phoebe vid main:

No, I know you mean. Because like I feel like it sounds like a harsh word at a macro level when about like your, but, but thinking of it at a cellular level almost, or in terms of each individual run, being okay with each run. Being mediocre, it's the, it's the good enough thing. oh, well that was good enough. I, I ticked the did the session at 80%. Like, think we're so fixated on each of the individual and to come back to this overarching thing about patience, each individual piece doesn't need to perfect. It's just like another little block, another coin in the slot,

Anna vid main:

Yeah,

phoebe vid main:

that is what adds But if you try and make each of them perfect on their own, it's actually like a more fragile. Wall of bricks, if you

Anna vid main:

yeah. That's what compounding interest is.

phoebe vid main:

and that, and that kids, that's compounding interest.

Anna vid main:

Put your pennies with us.

phoebe vid main:

Trust us your money. Um,

Anna vid main:

funny.

phoebe vid main:

okay. Should okay. Should we talk about wreck of the Week? Do

Anna vid main:

Yes. I really like that. I really like that chat. But yes, let's talk about of the week because I am going a little bit blind. You are surprising me with record of the week and also. A rundown drama, which I no idea about.'cause I feel like I've been living under a rock for the last week.

phoebe vid main:

I'm surprising you with the best rundown drama. Okay. So my record of the week is to do with shin splints.

Anna vid main:

Hmm.

phoebe vid main:

So, Anna, you might remember like a few weeks ago, I was a bit worried about my shins and I had been having a few weeks where, I don't know, I was just starting to get shin splints.

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Yeah. With your cars. Yeah. I

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, and I definitely, I then had a few runs where I was like. Ooh, I'm worried this. Like this is not Anyway, I got a message on LinkedIn from this guy who kind of works in vvc, well, he does work in vc, so same industry as me. And

Anna vid main:

What's VC for all those playing at home?

phoebe vid main:

uh, venture capital,

Anna vid main:

Oh, thank you. Just wanted to TLDR.

phoebe vid main:

Very good Anna. Um, I'd posted about cheeky on LinkedIn and as, as I am want to do, and, um, he reached out and was like, by the way, I've built this product for Shin Insulins'cause there's nothing out there that helps with shin And, I like designed it with a few of my friends who, we all shin for so of our time and. He's like, if anyone ever wants to talk about shin splints on the pod, let me know, or something like that. And I was like, yeah, but I've got shin splints, do you wanna

Anna vid main:

what do you

phoebe vid main:

product? I was literally like, but I, I want a product that's gonna So like, what is So anyway, it's called U-S-H-I-N I'll, we'll put it in the show notes, but I didn't want people to confused about the word that I was saying it's like solution, it's solution. And, they're like these like big, sleeves that go over your. From your knee to your ankle and you strap them up in four different places and they put these specific rods against almost pressure points in your calf muscle that are really designed to like, isolate all the tension parts in your calf that contribute to shin splints. And they've done these really interesting studies or they've worked with I think University of Melbourne do like. Don't quote me on that, to do research on them. And they've have a massively positive impact on gins blades. And so I like, Oh, go I'll give it a go. So I wore them every day. You have to wear them every day for an hour.

Anna vid main:

Mm.

phoebe vid main:

just whenever, like after runs, just at nighttime. I even wore them at work one day just under baggy pants. which they look pretty Not in a bad way, but like, quite orthopedic sort of

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

there's a lot going and you don't really notice them on. They're just sort of tension on your

Anna vid main:

Hmm.

phoebe vid main:

I have no shin anymore. Zero. It's crazy.

Anna vid main:

Oh my gosh. That's so cool.

phoebe vid main:

I know.

Anna vid main:

We need it. We will definitely put it in the show notes that would actually help these hosts. I feel like people struggle, once you have shin splints it's really to rid of.

phoebe vid main:

are the worst, They are the worst, worst. And I was so stressed about them getting any worse and I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna have to deload. and I do think you're meant to deload when you use these as well to like make them maximum efficacy. But, I sort of had those few days off anyway with my virus coincided at a similar time and I've just been wearing'em every day and they are making such a big difference. So if you have shin splints or you know, someone who has shin splints, have a look at solution. Check,

Anna vid main:

Cool. Thank you. All right. we into the rundown of the week,

phoebe vid main:

Let's get into the rundown I asked you at the start of this episode, I said, Anna, have you heard about drama that's been going with Grand Slam Track? And you said,

Anna vid main:

no, I haven't.

phoebe vid main:

and you were very disappointed that you

Anna vid main:

I know because I feel like I am normally over the of athletics.

phoebe vid main:

you are the Running athletics news girly. Alas, I, I'm across this. okay, so I'm gonna give some background context. Do you know about grand slime track at all?

Anna vid main:

I do, but I reckon we should explain it for the listeners who maybe have never heard of it.

phoebe vid main:

So grand slime track it was launched by Michael Johnson. People may be familiar. Olympic great. Michael Johnson. and it's basically if, if anyone's familiar with the Diamond League, the Diamond League is the biggest athletics competition in the world, would you Anna? And all run out of Europe and it's actually massive. Like they sell out huge stadiums. They're these massive athletic meets. They're really great. A lot of the world records are broken there. I They do extremely well. And this was kind framed as like a challenger to the dimer leg. It was US based and it was sort of we're gonna bring the excitement to running and we're gonna bring running and athletics to the masses. And it was this really like, interesting structure where everyone had to compete in two events. So you do I think it was like. Three K and 5K was like the long distance. 1500. 800 was middle distance and there were like sprints and hurdles and ones that, apologies, but not as a cross. So that's quite interesting'cause You'd get to see, I guess elite 5K runners trying to run three K or like 1500 run 800. Kind of even the playing fields a little bit. But the big calling card to it was that the prize money was crazy. there were millions and millions of dollars.

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

money,

Anna vid main:

Yeah, it pretty cool.

phoebe vid main:

They're like, we're gonna be able to get the best athletes in the world to do this. And they did a lot of hype around it as well. they'd do like droop checks. Did you hear about those?

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Well also,'cause they had contracted races. So they had the contracted athletes and then they would I kind of remember it by tennis cause there are four grand slams. So there are, four grand slam tracks. And I think you've pro, I think you said before anyway, but this was the first year of it. And the contracted races at each slam would come up against these like challenges in who were sort of like runners from. Across the globe. Some of them upcoming, like, Abby Caldwell, who's Australian, like, she's pretty young. She was a challenger one time.

phoebe vid main:

yeah, so it was a really cool model and they were basically trying to take running and as I say, like mass market it, make it this really exciting that everyone would get around. People in the US loves sport, which I'm all for. I'm like, this is sick. It's a lot more, protect your prize money. A lot more people falling in love with, you know, supporting athletics. So really cool. Anyway. You might remember early. So it started, weirdly enough, the first meet was in Kingston, in Jamaica. And I don't know you've read much of the commentary around this at time, but it was like a complete

Anna vid main:

It was a bit of a flop, wasn't it? Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

it was. didn't go that well. just not a big showing. and then the next two, Miami and Philadelphia. Was sort of just okay. they really weren't doing that well. as it turns out, after the first meet in Kingston, their like biggest investor, I believe, bailed out and was like, this isn't very good. this isn't exciting.

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

anyway, they now haven't paid a single athlete.

Anna vid main:

Oh my gosh. For anything,

phoebe vid main:

athletes are owed roughly 13 million in prize money and fees. Oh, sorry. The Kingston meets appearance. Payments were paid just to the agents and that's it. No one else. And they're like all these massive venue debts and everything. but not

Anna vid main:

Because I remember, I remember a big, supporter of it. I remember they pulled out after the first one and then they were sort of looking around for money and everything. But I didn't realize to what level I hadn't heard that no athlete had been paid or anything. That is crazy.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, it's pretty crazy and. It's pretty terrible to be honest because a lot of athletes gave up a lot time and money and you know, forego going on and racing in Europe

Anna vid main:

Yeah,

phoebe vid main:

furthering their career because they were like, oh, I'm, which Jess Hall for example, she was one of the core key athletes of it.

Anna vid main:

It was also quite early in the year, which mind you is like the year after an Olympic year where a lot of people choose to just. Relax and kind of get into things like it. But there so money on the line, I feel like

phoebe vid main:

traveling all around the

Anna vid main:

to do it. Yeah,

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. and they haven't made any statement really about it. They said at one point they were trying to say it was, there were delays were due to drug testing, which is just like. Everyone knew was not right, but they were like, you know, you'll definitely get paid on this date. And that was three weeks ago and no got paid.

Anna vid main:

Has Michael Johnson come out and said anything?

phoebe vid main:

yeah, he, he sort of has, he did this sort of social media apology where he was basically like, this is one of my toughest challenges. He said something like, I haven't slept in a week or something. he also confirmed that'cause they canceled the LA meet, the meant to be the final and biggest meet. And when they like, they actually had this whole narrative around, we canceled it because we've learnt everything we need to about, this year's been a great success. We've learnt everything we need and we're ready. Like we're now ready to set up for next year. they haven't been very transparent about it all

Anna vid main:

God, that is crazy. So what, we'll watch this space for. What happens?

phoebe vid main:

Watch this face. It's such a, so, it's very tough for the athletes.

Anna vid main:

so, that's honestly so sad.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, it is. And I just think there's no way,'cause they're still saying they're coming back next year, but I dunno

Anna vid main:

No way that is happening. I mean, unless someone picks them up and decides to invest a whole heap of they're already gonna, yeah. Why would you?

phoebe vid main:

I do think it's an interesting question? Like how do you make running. And athletics broadly, how do you mass market it more?

Anna vid main:

I mean, firstly I feel like timing, of it is pretty poor. Straight after the Olympics. I feel like people aren't

phoebe vid main:

Yeah. But maybe they're trying to capitalize on the

Anna vid main:

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I don't know. mm.

phoebe vid main:

The Diamond League does do an amazing job. Like they sell out all those massive stadiums, so it's obviously possible,

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

of a culture in Europe. Like I don't think, well, Australia would not be able to get 50,000 people along to an athletics mate

Anna vid main:

No. Gosh, no. Unfortunately,

phoebe vid main:

one day.

Anna vid main:

day, one day, every single cheeky listener will go.

phoebe vid main:

Yeah, all 50,000 of

Anna vid main:

Oh, all right. I think that's all we got time for today.

phoebe vid main:

I think it is.

Anna vid main:

We will hopefully be coming to you next week with some more details about our shakeout round for the Melbourne Marathon, but it is gonna be the Saturday morning prior to Melbourne Marathon in sort of like inner city Melbourne. So keep an eye out on

phoebe vid main:

it on that.

Anna vid main:

and also we'll hopefully be discussing with you next episode.

phoebe vid main:

And we have some really exciting interviews coming up

Anna vid main:

Yes, we do. Stick out for them. True

phoebe vid main:

them. champs also up, we're gonna do a bit of a bit of a preview. Athletics World Championships next week. Oh no, think it kicks off on like the 13th. so after our next episode, so next week, we'll do a bit of preview there. I reckon

Anna vid main:

Yeah.

phoebe vid main:

Bye.

Anna vid main:

Bye.

phoebe vid main:

so after our next episode, so next week, we'll do a bit of preview there. I reckon

Anna vid main:

Yeah. Sounds All right. Speak to you in your ears next week.