Cheeky Run Club

Road to... Baby

• Phoebe Pincus & Anna Coldham • Season 8 • Episode 3

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Hello Cheeky Crew!
 
If you thought last week’s episode and our announcement of Cheeky Track Nights was exciting (which it totally is and you should register your interest down below), today’s news is just as - if not MORE - wonderful!
 
As the title suggests, this episode is about Anna's experience on her Road to Baby and the first babe of Cheeky! Over the next three episodes, we will unpack Anna's experience of fertility struggles, falling pregnant, miscarriage and falling pregnant all over again.
 
We understand this episode may be difficult for some of you, and if this is you, please know that you’re not alone, and our hearts go out to you. If you or anyone you know are struggling with what we spoke about, please seek support through Pink Elephants or Lifeline. Our Instagram DM’s are also always open.
 
LINKS:

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

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Cheeky. Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on aboriginal land.

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this episode is sponsored by Clinique and they're deeply hydrating moisture surge products. We're teaming up with Clinique to bring these products to you in a community run in a few weeks. More details in the episode.

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Welcome Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Phoebe. Hello And hello listeners.

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So if you all thought that last week's Cheeky track nights episode was a big one, think again because today's episode is gonna be one of the ages. We have some truly momentous news about something that No. We're really excited to share with you all.

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I'm, I'm pregnant.

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Yay.

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What?

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Yay. Wow. Wait, what? You're

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Oh my God.

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crazy. That is actually, it is actually crazy. It's, it's really exciting. Um, very

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very exciting. 20 weeks. Three weeks pregnant.

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weeks. There is the cheekiest little baby.

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The cheekiest little gal in my belly

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gal is in your belly.

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She's listening. She's taking notes. Oh,

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Oh, I can't wait to get her on the pod. I can't wait to hear about this experience. From her

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from, I know She'll probably know that I'm telling my side of the

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Yeah. She's really been silenced throughout this whole

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she has

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the girl a voice.

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Yeah. Yep. but good, good. I feel like to get her, get her on the pod, like we have had her on the pod for Yeah. The last couple of seasons.

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observer. Yeah. Literally. so it is extremely exciting. And today's episode and the next two are going to be a bit of a deep dive into the journey that has been going on behind the scenes of this podcast pretty much since the pod began. Yeah,

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been quite a while. Beanie, um, uh, what do you,

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trying to say? A character building journey.

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Great character building. Yeah. Yeah.

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been running away, Anna's character is

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So

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right now.

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everyone, everyone, I'm

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like, I have been wondering,

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and if anyone has ever had any sort of experience with me and they've thought I've been grumpy over the last two years.

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yeah, you probably were.

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is why. Yeah.

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Yeah. It is a story that is at times very sad, but ultimately does have a happy ending. And where we are today, yes. And we are going to be talking through that journey over this episode and the next two episodes. we're also gonna give an update on cheeky track nights, including answering some frequently asked questions and tell you about a very special community run we're doing in collaboration with clin. Next Woo-hoo. Yay. But before we do, as always, we're gonna start off by talking about our best and worst runs of the week. So Anna, tell me your worst run.

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My worst this week was very sadly, uh, my Tuesday run. It was just, which was a track session, which I feel like has been my peak life moment for the last little while. but last Tuesday in Melbourne, it was disgusting. Like it was so wet and actually really cold as well. It

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Oh really? Yeah. And then

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the track was completely flooded. I felt like absolute rubbish. Running, but you know, when you just, it just feels hard. Yeah. and then tried to go to the bathroom. At one stage the bathroom was locked. Then we went to Cheeky Monkeys after for coffee. They had a sign on their window saying, sorry, we've been broken into, we're closed. No. Just like nothing was going

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well. Got

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Yeah. It was really sad. Really sad. anyway, so yeah. Just wasn't vibing.

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Wasn't vibing Last Tuesday morning. Well, as you can now say you are 23 weeks

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I am 23 weeks

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And so it's okay to

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finding running quite difficult as of late.

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Yes. You've been finding it physically difficult, but I feel like spiritually you've been all about it. Mm. Yeah.

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Mm. Well, it was kind of,'cause I, yeah. Like I started being able to run again when I think I was already like. 10 or so weeks pregnant, which was sort of strange.'cause I feel like for like a little while I was seeing a quick increase in fitness, but now that the,

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Yeah.

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along, then it's just like going down. Yeah. Anyway, so, yeah. Running still hard, running slow.

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Yeah.

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Head it here first. Um, what is your best run of the week?

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Uh, I'll do my worst.

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worst.

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you

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baby brain. Ha.

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I was like, I bet she's gonna say baby brain right now. Any excuse? my worst was I did a session also my Tuesday session. My Tuesday session, which I did on a Wednesday. I was on Stradbroke Island, which is one of my favorite places in the whole world. Mm-hmm. it was so nice, but I was kicking off my 5K training. Yeah. So I had sort of like a 5K session. It was 2K, tempo, and then 10 by five hundreds off a longish standing recovery. Anyway, the thing about Strati, well the thing that I love about Strati is that it's very underdeveloped. Like it's very quiet and, but the tricky thing about it is with running, there's not necessarily like a good place to do a session per se. I didn't really wanna do it on a road. but there's like some grass that's really soft and sloggy and you couldn't really try and do a session on, and then there's trails. Yeah. And there's one stretch of dirt road that I'd done my long run on and we thought it was pretty good. so we're like, oh, we'll just do the session there. But there's just a difference between doing it long run at any pace and then a session when you're trying to go fast. And actually it's like half sand, half rocks, rock sticking out. You cannot get a rhythm at all. Like, you know, when you just, even for the 2K, which was just not, I wasn't particularly meant to be going hard, I just couldn't get in a rhythm. I was like constantly looking at rocks and so on. And then the other demoralizing thing about it is. Sean, my boyfriend did it with me, which was actually, that was a great part of it. But he's been, he's recently finished up, his current job is really exciting. Amazing. Starting a new one in a couple of months, but, and so he is been running a lot more'cause he is just got way more time and he already was dropping me in the session. Oh. Already. He, he fully dropped me in the session.

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been like a

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It's literally this is pretty much his first session and he just dropped me straight away and I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Screw you. Screw me. Actually screw you

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until 6:00 AM

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. no, mostly it was so nice and fun having him back in sessions and honestly during that session by myself'cause it was so hot as well, doing it by myself would've not been fun. And I was in just joggers, like it wasn't good conditions for a session. And you're relaxed. It's very yeah. but I also was so sore for like days afterwards.'cause I feel

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the, from it being a bit more sandy and

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I think it's just such different muscles. Yeah. It's like all your little muscles. And I've got like doms pretty much in my legs. Yeah. which is crazy. So that was hard, but I feel like probably really good. Yeah. Probably good to not always be doing sessions on like tracks. Yeah.

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And Yeah. Either tracks are like

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very Yeah. But I just like

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like so easy to run fast.

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Yes. But the effort level was very high. Yeah. tell me about your best run. Mine

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was yesterday, so Saturday I was down in lawn for the weekend with a group of friends and I ran with a little boy band. There were, it was me and Four Larrikins, no five, including Ted. and we were just running around lawn. It was so, it was such a beautiful morning. We thought that it was gonna be really ranging, sort of gross for the whole time we were there. but we woke up. It was, I think it was the nice morning I've ever had in nicest

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like

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morning in terms of like weather I've

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Really? Yeah.

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in lawn. Yeah, it was still, there was, a few waves, few small waves. It was really, really calm. Not a cloud in the sky. And it was cold. Like we all went for a dip after the run, which was amazing. but it was still the water's still so cold there, like takes your breath away.

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Like

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go under and you're like, and then, but it was warm enough to then just like we all got a coffee by the beach and

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and sit out in the sun. Sitting

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in the sun for a couple of hours, just like. Didn't have lunch until one 30. We just, like, it was, it's so nice being away from Melbourne. And I know, I feel like we've spoken about this before, but I feel like you, no one's like rushing off to do anything. You kind of just like, I don't have anything

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We can just sit here

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like chat

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and just have such nice

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it was so nice. And then I saw one of my school friends, she was down there, so we caught up for a quick coffee. Oh, oh. So good.

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That sounds so

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Yes. Um, what about you?

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mine was. I also was away this weekend. I was in Sydney for our friend LE's Hens. Mm-hmm. And we started off her hens leash. Our friend leash, our doors running almost more than anyone else I know. and so we started off her hen with a run, because most of our friends like running as well. So mostly people, but the hen were also keen for a run. And it was so fun. We all met and then we surprised her with these teas with like

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are so cool.

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teas are so, yeah. They were so cute. They held like an outline of Centennial Park, which she a loves Centennial Park and she's getting married in Centennial Park. And then yeah, we just, we ran up to Sunni Park, did a couple laps, some more people joined us in the park. Yeah. So there was a big crew and then we ran back down

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swim.

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So nice. I have to say it was like a little bit chillier than we thought it was gonna be really hot. We actually almost moved the run earlier, but it was like a bit, the clouds kind of came over and

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Yeah. Okay.

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chillier, but the swim still. So Freshing sat there, had some pastries from Iggies, which are like my favorite croissants in the whole world. and similar thing, we just sat around for two hours

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Just having a good old chat and it was, and it led into then a lunch and everything for the actual main event for the hen. But it was such a nice way to start the day.'cause everyone, a lot of people like didn't necessarily know each other. Yeah, And everyone could kind of chat And bond

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then you're like all familiar with each other.

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Yeah. You see each other at lunch and you all know each other, but yeah.

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there's, it is like quite a good bonding experience, going for a run and then having coffee and then spending the whole day

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together. It is, it was a whole day and she was so happy. So that was really

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Oh so good. Had a lot of fomo.

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Exactly.

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alright, so should we chat about the Cheeky Clinic event that we are going to hold next Friday, the 28th of November?

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Let's do it. So as you said, we're partnering with Clinique to host a community run. We'd been saying our funnel would be to kind of get together one last time before the end of the year to celebrate the year that's been and the start of summer slash the silly season. And Clinique are absolutely the perfect partner for this because they wanna get around the girls

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and we love it when people wanna get around

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We love it.

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So they'll be giving away 150 clinic gift bags and also providing free coffee and pastries courtesy of Baker Blue, which I have been told is the best in Melbourne.

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Yeah, the best non gluten-free based cheese that you can get. That you can get that. Honestly. So good. They are. We, we love Baker Blue.

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It

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be at the Baker Blue in Remont. There's a bunch of them that have, popped up recently. So it'll be at Remont Baker Blue. We'll post all the details, In a link in our show notes. Yeah. And on our Instagram and so on. But yeah, it'll be kicking off at six 30 Friday, the 28th of November. Yeah. Registered to be there. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about the products that we're celebrating?

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Yeah. So the first is the moisture surge active glow serum. Which is formulated with powerful actives, it exfoliates hydrates and brightens to give the skin an instant and continuous

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And the second is the moisture surge. 100 H auto replenishing hydrator. This is a gel moisturizer. It's formulated with allo ferment and hyaluronic acid. It penetrates deep into the skin surface for a hundred hours of stabilizing hydration.

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So yes, as Peb said before, we'll pop all of the details on the event page. We'll put the link to that so you can register. come. It will be so fun. Last chance to get together before Christmas and get yourself a little goodie bag, plus some food and fuel before you head off on your day at work. thank you so much Clinique for making this episode of Cheeky Possible.

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We also need to chat about Cheeky night because

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we have hit over 1000 expressions of interest. Yay. That is actually, that is bananas.

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is bananas. I think I knew that we would ha, we we're keeping expressions of interest open for two weeks before we decide where to launch it and when and so on. And in my head I thought 500 would be a really great outcome. If we've got 500 people across the two weeks, then it's like boom. That's validated that there's a desire for this. But it's been

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less than a week.

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Yeah, less than a week. And we're on a thousand. Crazy. Which is absolutely crazy. we have been so, it's been very like, validating the enthusiasm for this event. So one of you was so excited that you actually sent us through a voice note on Instagram and we wanted to play a part of it because we feel like it really captures the collective response. Anna, you haven't actually heard this yet. No. So yes, I'm excited to show you. I've never been so excited. I hate track. I hate, oh, I hate it so much. It's just a stigma that I have in my brain that I'm not a fast runner and you know, like to have eyes on you when you're doing a big effort is daunting and it's scary and, it's raw, especially when men are watching. So, uh, I just. I can't even describe to you how excited I am for this. You best believe I'm going to share it everywhere to my friends that are just getting into running to my friends that are,

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are,

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not doing marathons right now and just improving their 5K'cause this is the season. Oh, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for putting time, effort, energy into women. I'm ignited, I'm, I've got a fire in my belly about it. Um, how cute is that?

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nice. Thank you to. That listener,

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Christy. Thank you Christy. You, Christy.

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okay, so you have one week left to submit your expressions of interest. So please do if you haven't done so already in terms of the a hundred thousand responses.

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a hundred thousand.

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hey friend. And so in terms of the thousand responses, what is looking likely so far is Melbourne is leading the charge by quite a long way. So go mes followed by Sydney, but then we have four cities who are all within about like 15 expressions of each other. So if you are hearing this and you haven't yet done so, yeah, make sure you get in where you'd want us to do the track night to ensure you don't miss out.

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That is right. And we thought we do some frequently asked questions because, just a quick fire because there have been a heap of questions coming through and we wanted to help clarify a couple things. So should we just go back and forth? Anna, do you wanna start off by telling us what actually is cheeky track nights?

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I'd love to. So Cheeky Track Nights is a women's only 5K track event where we are re-imagining the track experience to make it as fun and accessible as possible for all helping you to not just make friends but feel good whilst running fast. when is it happening Thieves and where will it be held?

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So the exact dates are to be determined and we'll let you know as soon as they are locked in, but we are aiming for late Feb slash early March. We should know in the next month or so. For sure. Yeah, we're aiming for a Saturday afternoon slash evening time slot. That's the dream. and as Anna just said, where we launch it depends on you. And depends on where the interest is. Yep, exactly. Uh, Anna, is this a one-off event or will it be a regular thing?

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okay, so think of this first round of events as a bit of a pilot, we'll run it in a few cities. We're keeping it super community focused and low key. We'll learn as much as we can and what works and what doesn't. And from there we'll figure out where to take it. But yes, at this stage it's just a once per city for this little

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series. Mm-hmm.

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is it a race, Phoebe?

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Yeah. A few people have been asking a bit confused about is it a race or not. I think you can think of it similar to a fun run. You're really mostly racing against yourself to get the best time that you can get on the night. Um, there won't be prizes for winning or anything like that. Yeah, yeah. Anna, how does the team format actually work? What happens if I am, there's a few people asking what will happen if they're too slow or too fast for the team in the end.

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Yeah, so each pace group is its own little team and you essentially self select into which team you'd like to be in. You'll meet your captain, which your pacer warm up together. Then race your 5K side by side. The captain's job is to keep you on pace and hype you up, not to drop you. If you can push it. If you can push ahead'cause you're feeling good, then absolutely go for it. You definitely don't need to stay with the pacer. if you do drop behind, we're gonna try and have a few pace groups in each each race. So possibly you could fall in with another group and no matter what you best believe, we'll be cheering you on as loud as we can. So essentially top line is do not stress about, falling off of being too fast for a pace group. they are designed to get you to from the start line to the finish line. In the time that you sort of self-select, but you're more than welcome to blitz that or

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pull back if it's not right

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you are not feeling good. So how many people will be in each race?

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So we are gonna split heats by pace group, so the track never feels too crowded. but there may be up to exact numbers will depend on registrations. Um, we'll make sure every group has plenty of runners so no one's out there solo. But we also don't want the crack to be the crack baby. Boom. Just kidding. We don't want the track to be too crazy crowded. So I would imagine not more than 30 people in one race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do people need any special shoes or gear?

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definitely not. Come as you are. You can wear your jeans if you like.

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Probably

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recommended'cause they're not very

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comfortable. Might be a bit

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But don't need any special running gear or anything. Just anything that you're comfortable in, is absolutely perfect. So will there be any more info or updates?

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Ah, yeah, you bet there will be. So subscribe to the tiki newsletter, follow this podcast. Follow us on socials, we will make sure you know all about it.

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Yeah. Also just wanna mention there has been huge enthusiasm for community meetups or training sessions in the lead up. So we'll absolutely be thinking about that as well as a lot of interest in more guidance on what 5K training actually should look like. So we are keeping that front of mind as well. once we announce the dates and where they'll be, then we can kind of get into the nitty gritty, I guess. Yeah,

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absolutely. Expressions of interest. Close Sunday, the 23rd of November. That's next Sunday. The more interest and feedback we have, the better we're gonna be placed to get this off the ground and make sure it's something that everyone loves. So please do feel that out. Yay.

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Can't wait. So,

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so.

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So,

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so.

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for today's episode and the next two episodes, we have something a little bit different planned. As you all know, we like to spend these episodes diving deep into the topics that keep amateur runners up at night. And turns out fertility and pregnancy is a huge one, particularly for my me,

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or my

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for my,

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baby burn. yeah, as you all hear, Anna's journey was very far from straightforward. as we said at the top, it's, it's sort of an interesting one to talk through because this has all been unfolding behind the scenes for pretty much as long as the podcast has been going on for. So I feel like the listeners who have been with us from the start, a lot of the sort of events and milestones we're talking about might be familiar to you. but in this conversation, we're gonna be very much going behind the scenes to give a really honest insight into What the fertility and pregnancy journey can be like and, how your relationship with running can change in that time, whether you wanted to or

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not. Yeah. I do wanna give a little bit of space for having this conversation now at 23 weeks pregnant. I would've loved to be able to open up when I was in the weeds of it all, but it was honestly just a bit too raw for me to share, and I don't think it would've been helpful for myself, nor would've been a constructive conversation for anyone to hear. I do wanna share it with you now though, because I know that I have previously and still do take a lot of comfort in hearing other people's experiences, and I feel like we've built cheeky to be authentic and explore both the beautiful and ugly parts of running and life. I also know that the sacred grief of miscarriage and fertility struggles is probably the most isolating and lonely places. So I've, found myself in so far. So, and it is no less real for the fact that it is often silent and unseen. Oh my God, Well, alright. You got this next one?

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Thanks Anna. Um, well, yeah, before I say the next bit, like, I think that's so fair, Anna, that you didn't wanna share it as you were going through it. I mean, yeah. I. Don't think you, I think it's so brave, even that you're sharing, choosing to share it now. you could have just kind of come out and been like, I'm pregnant. And that's the end of it. But even choosing to go through this and like, I wanna acknowledge, I know it's not really necessarily gonna be the easiest conversation for you as well. So I'm very grateful to you for, for being willing to share. as always, we wanted to say like, we're not experts. although you have spoken to a lot of experts over the past two years, so you kind of are an expert in the experience. But yeah, this episode isn't, or these episodes aren't going to be about giving advice or even sharing opinions. Really, it's just gonna be a reflective conversation between two friends about this experience. We will be talking about topics like fertility challenges and miscarriage. We know that can be really tough for some people to listen to. So if these episodes aren't for you, that's completely okay. And know that we're thinking of you.

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Yeah. So today's episode, we will be chatting about the very windy road to pregnancy, number one. Uh, next episode we'll talk about the loss of that pregnancy and even windy road to pregnancy number two, which is our current one. Um, and then finally we'll talk about the actual pregnancy journey itself. So similar to our Road to Berlin series, this is Road to Baby

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to Baby, um, which was going on along the same

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It was along

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Berlin. So

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It was just drugging along.

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It's just the, yeah. And for anyone wondering what does this have to do with running, which hopefully no one is, but if anyone is, you'll learn as what you did. That it has pretty much everything to do with running. and from how it can act as a signal that something isn't quite right in your life to the dark side of something that feels like it can be so good for you to, the joy and benefits, unlike the simple run with friends can bring it a very hard time. I feel like running is very much woven through this whole journey.

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I feel like this whole experience is very closely intertwined with running. and yeah, that my. Ability to run and not run on the guidance of others. and the sadness that that brings. But then also, as you just said, the simple joy it is to go and like appreciation that you get to go for a run with friends and have a coffee after.

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that. Is it,

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Alright, so should we wind it back? We should

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wind the clock back. Take the clock back. Take us back to Jan 2024, which was when episode number one of Yeah. Cheeky MCL came out. But tell us what else was going on in your life at that time.

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So Jan 2024. I reckon

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probably one of the

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best months ever. Well, I got married in January, 2023. and then we were starting cheeky running heaps. It was summer Life was amazing. Dave, my husband and I, we decided I was, I had the marina in,

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what's the marina?

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it is an IUD.

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it quickly goes, what is

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I wanna get that exact'cause I don't wanna be me to give my definition of, oh, it literally looks like a fish fishing hook that goes up your vagina, so you

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o ouch.

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a pregnant name. okay. So the marina is a hormonal interuterine device that's inserted into the uterus to provide long-acting, reversible contraception, And it also helps in some cases to treat heavy menstrual bleeding. In my case, it was purely just a contraception thing. I had been on the pill for quite a long time and I just felt like my mood and emotions sometimes when I was on the pill, I couldn't really decipher what was the pill or what was actually just me. so I'd spoken to a couple of people that had had the marina in and they sort of said it's amazing. The hormones are just very localized, so it doesn't really affect your Whole emotions and personality I

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guess. Yeah.

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the other thing that I liked about it was in contrast to the pill, when you take the marina out because the hormones are localized, you're kind of meant to almost go back, I

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immediately,

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to immediately to like a regular, menstrual cycle on like the,'cause I know that the pill, a lot of people kind of, it takes

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

six to 12 months.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

to kind of like get back into a regular menstrual cycle. the one thing initially that I actually did quite enjoy about the marine night is a lot of people, you actually don't get your period on it. Some people get very light bleeding and some people don't. And I never had, I had it in for about five years.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Is it only with the same one? You can keep in for five

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

For five years, yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I had it in just under. Just under five years. and I mean, initially that was kind of amazing'cause like didn't have to buy like tampons or didn't have to worry about getting a period and everything. I got the marina out for two reasons. One, because Dave and I were keen to start a family. and the other was because I wanted to make sure we were kind of, we were very, I mean like looking back, we were like very naive. in our heads. I was kind of, well, in my head at least, I was like, we wanna start a family and I also wanna do the barely marathon. I know I'm gonna have to run a bit further, um, and like do a bit more intense training to actually do that. So I want to ensure that my menstrual cycle is regular.'cause I know that that can be like, quite an early sort of sign, I guess, that something's not right or maybe you're like pushing your body a little bit too much. Yeah. So I thought it was a smart. I thought it was a smart thing to do

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

A smart thing to do.'cause I remember at the time before Berlin, when we were talking about doing a marathon and training for marathon, like you were nervous about the increase in load Mm. And how you'd, how your body would respond to it.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Definitely.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

I feel like it makes sense because people do talk about getting a regular period. It's, it's not a signal that everything's fine, but it is a signal that your body's coping with the load

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. Or it's more a signal, like if you lose it,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

if it

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

it's like, it's like a bit of a red flag. Yeah. yeah. And then I kind of in my head was like, whatever comes first. Baby or the marathon. Yeah. either would be

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

either would be great.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. So that was January, 2024. fast forward a couple months to April, 2024. Dave had actually spoken to a friend at the gym who mentioned, these ovulation sticks that you, you can kind of, you pee on to sort of track your ovulation. we hadn't, we hadn't been doing that, but we, I also hadn't really, I think I'd gotten my period twice since getting the marina removed. but wasn't regular and also like very, very light.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Were you, worried about the fact that your period hadn't, because you said you, you hope that when you get it removed because it's just local hormones, it will reset. were you a bit surprised. Um,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

A tiny bit, but I had also spoken to someone who's quite close to me who's sort of like a specialist in, in that area. And they had kind of said it is, but like, it, it can still kind of,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

it can still

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

couple months. And the fact that like you've had a couple bleeds, like that's completely fine. Yeah. Okay. so I wasn't like too worried. But then from April till about June I was doing the ovulation sticks and,'cause you don't know, obviously if you have your regular period, you kind of, you know, you should ovulate generally speaking around the middle of your cycle. but not having a regular one, I wasn't really sure when that would be. So I was doing them every day and I would just never get a, you get a smiley face if you're like, about to ovulate or if you're ovulating, and that just never happened for me. Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Where was your head space at this point in time? Obviously you were starting to train for the marathon. Mm. You had this going on, like when you'd you wouldn't see the smiley face. Like were you stressed about it or were you kind of like, it's okay, it's just resetting? Or were you just like, I'm not really sure what's going on here.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I wasn't really sure, but I'd also read and heard from a lot of people that ovulation sticks don't work for them. Oh. So it's not as though they work for a hundred percent of the people who do it. So I feel like in both of these scenarios, the ovulation sticks plus they're didn't have my regular period yet

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

because I

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

had heard oh, sometimes that does happen. Like I was a little bit, I obviously would've rather had had both of those things, but I wasn't like overly concerned at all because I was just like, oh. Like, it's fine. Yeah. I was also just going, I mean, knowing what I know now, I obviously would've changing, but like, I mean, hindsight's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Um, and you're just still also Yeah. Like I was, yeah. I was just still learning about, my body and then also like, we were I don't wanna, it's not as though I was having like a bad time. Yeah. I was, we were having the best time ever. We had launched Shey, people were actually listening to us. Yeah. was running heaps. Yeah. Work was good. Life was good. Yeah. and then, so yeah, so then did the ovulation six for a few months. Then sort of June came around and there was still nothing. So I booked in to see the GP who sent me off for some tests. I got a few. Different scans, like pelvic ultrasounds. I don't really, I think what they were looking for was endometriosis and that kind of thing. or just anything, to look at what my ovaries looked like to see if, identify that there were two there, and just to see if there were any abnormalities, anatomically. and that was all fine. And the blood tests sort of came back fine because I didn't know. They obviously they did my, levels of progesterone and whatnot, which is a identifying factor of when you ovulate. But because I didn't know where I was in this, my cycle, it didn't really, it wasn't really, it was kind of

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

irrelevant. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

so yeah, got those results back in July, which was when we went up to the Gold Coast and did our cheeky run with on, which was very fun. was also about to go to Europe'cause we were about to embark on the Euro journey of the road to Berlin. and was going to the Olympics and stuff, which was so cool. I booked back in with my GP and she was very much like, everything looks so, okay. I feel like you've entered this marathon, you're going away to Europe. It might just be that you are like, because you have been running quite a lot and also you've had a really busy year. it might just be kind of like the stress of that. So let's sort things out. Let, she was really, really good about it. She said we can try and sort it out now, but it's kind of, I can't really, if you are going away for like three months. but she was like, come back and see me, as soon as you get back and we can sort it all out. She was like very supportive

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

looking back and I totally hear why she said that. And she's just trying to deal with where you were at in your

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. But do you feel like, that was the right advice for you? Um,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Um, I think so because I mean, the alternative, I have thought about this before and the alternative is that she. Sat me down and said Stop running. Yeah. Which if, I mean you knew me last July, if someone had have said that to me, I'd be like, what? And also this whole trip was planned around this run that we were doing. there's no way. And also because I didn't have the evidence, everything kind of from the test and everything seemed okay. There was no kind of like underlying evidence to be like, something is up. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so if she had have said that. I think that I just, yeah, I, I, yeah. And I, I don't think, and also she wouldn't have, she didn't know what was to come either kind of thing, so, nah, I, I think that was completely

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

that was reason reasonable

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and then obviously went over to Europe, had a very fun time. I pretty much, as soon as we got there, my hamstring tendinopathy was really bad. I think from the flight over and then, so that kind of hindered my ability to run over there. And then I also, um, hurt my foot, which turned out to be like a, well, the thing like stress reaction, which also is funny, is a sign that you're kind of doing too much running under fueling. Yeah. Like, not putting in. Enough into your body for like what you're expecting of it. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. So at this stage you obviously had to stop running well and in the end for a little while. Mm. Did you start to have an inkling in your head maybe these things were related or it was just sort of a series of unfortunate events?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I think at the time I thought it was a series of unfortunate events. I do think by the time, by the end of the Europe trip, I only actually ran for the first week of being in Europe. So then I had eight weeks, plus or minus a little bit. I hadn't run at all and I still I hadn't got a period. and then I think by the end when I was kind of starting to think of all the things, I feel like things started to click a little bit because even my foot injury I know that they bone stress things sort of accumulate over time. But that came off the back of not really running for a couple

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

weeks. Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

and then all of a sudden when my hammy started to feel a bit better, then I tried to run and then my foot was bad.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Um,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Um, so I feel like by that stage I was a bit like, okay, something is not right. Yeah. So I booked in, I think it was the day after I landed to come back to Melbourne. Yeah. Um, in September I'd booked in to go back

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

and see my gp. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I was just like,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

something's not, this isn't, this isn't like, because then when was this was September, did you

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

So by this stage it's nine months post getting the

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

and you'd only had a few periods.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

And like irregular, very light. Yeah. and also like we were also trying to conceive

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. It happened.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

But

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. But obviously it's

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

if you're having an irregular period, it's hard to know when that. Sweet spot is to actually try and do that properly anyway.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Um, so what did the GP say when you came back?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

she was like, understandably, she was like, oh, I'm sorry that this has happened. Let's get you into see a fertility doctor'cause there's nothing really much I can do from here. so she referred me to a fertility doctor who started me on oral, ovulation induction medication.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Let's just wind back a little bit. So like, what did the fertility doctor think was wrong at this stage? She

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

that I clearly I wasn't ovulating, which was meaning that there was no real regular cycle probably due to the fact that I had been like running so much. which I feel like with that came, I feel like then the guilt kind of. set in. Um, because I've always sort of prided myself on like trying to be healthy and you know, I, I run'cause I love it, but I also feel like it's good for you and I feel like I try to like eat good food and that kind of thing. And all of a sudden I kind of had this realization that maybe I was kind of like hurting myself, but subconsciously, and was kind of like hindering my body's ability to like do all the things that a woman's body's meant to do, by. it was like kind of doing the complete opposite, I was running to, and like doing all this stuff to be the best version of myself and healthy. And I was actually kind of doing the opposite.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

So was it that this stage that you were told to start running less

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Um, no. So So that's what, so September was when I first, I started on the oral ovulation induction medication. And then that didn't really work. So then, and

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

did that, tell us about the experience of taking that medication. Like, do you feel any different? what is the,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

um, on the oral medication? Not super different. I feel like I, my emotions were a bit heightened, but it, it's sort of, it's hard to separate as well when you like start. I don't know, as I just said, like I was starting to feel guilty and obviously then like a lot of other emotions are coming up, being. You know, you're seeing heaps, people fall pregnant and that kind of thing. And so it's hard to kind of distinguish between like, what is only you and then like what is the, like hormones, what are the hormones adding. To that kind of like heightened

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. It was already a very Yeah. Stressful

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. But I feel like the oral hormones, they didn't really like affect me too much. I didn't think, I don't know, maybe Dave would say differently, um,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

compared to then what came Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. So then I think because I, yeah, I did have that, guilt and everything and then I, the oral stuff wasn't working. I booked into seeing an endocrinologist who, they, obviously, not from a fertility perspective, but just purely from like hormones. Yeah. and they were the ones that sort of said, because this, by this stage, then I was like, building up my running again. I, I literally, I did a session with you in the morning and it was the first session back, which was absolutely amazing. And then it was that day that I saw the endocrinologist and they told me to, cut back my running. To like three 30 minute jogs a week. Like only, and I, I think it's like so funny being like, oh, you, you like pump yourself with all these hormones or like, do all this stuff. But like the, the instructions to do that, I feel like we're a really big blow. because as we've said, we run for so many reasons and like one of those reasons is the social connection and also like your, like mental wellbeing. And I kind of feel like all these other things I like wasn't in control of. And then I was kind of being like stripped from my, like vice in a sense, which was to run with friends. and it was at that time as well that I also started on the hormone injections.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

is And is that because they didn't think that the oral ones were having enough of an impact?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. So the, not to get into the like, um,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

oh, get into it,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

of it all, but essentially. the reason of the hormone injections weren't working? I'm sorry. Sorry. The oral is because my issue was the, receptors between my brain and my ovaries. They weren't communicating to say now's a good time to ovulate, or like, we're in a safe space. you can ovulate now. that's kind of what I have in my head. they were purely just like working on the ovary side of things, but that wasn't the actual issue. So the injections, have like a different mechanism

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

they try and tell your, help your brain tell your

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. but those, I mean there was like a bit of a teething period with those'cause obviously started off on a low dose and they didn't really. help enough. And then I sort of had to be like pumped up and I feel like by this stage it was really affecting my mental health. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, sorry. Not just my mental health. I just feel like my, yeah, I guess my mental health and I don't know. I feel like my personality, to be honest, I just feel like I wasn't super, I just wasn't like the best version of myself at all. Um, and I feel like it was so strange.'cause I feel like I'd started the year at an absolute on this, like absolute high. And then I was like finishing the year. Like we got Ted, which thank my exploitative, thank fuck we got a dog. Because I just feel like my whole sense of purpose, I don't know, because I couldn't run and I have such a big purpose of running and like trying to get better or just like going for a race. The fact that I had him to like. I have to look after him. I have to take him for a walk. Like even if I felt shit like he still needed to go to the park kind of thing. So it like gets you outta the house even when you're not feeling good. I feel like that was so helpful for me.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a bit more about your, like, head space at that time. what, what, and, and walk us through like Yeah. Almost a day in the life where like you weren't really able to run and you would like, how were you managing the ejections and like,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

yeah. So what, what would happen in just say a four week cycle? I'd take injections for the first. Essentially the first two weeks. and then would give myself another injection that actually like triggers, ovulation, and then to put plainly. Then your doctor tells you what days to have sex. So

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

So what?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

they literally write on a piece of paper. It is so unsexy.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Wow.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

They'll be, oh, they don't call it sex, they call it intercourse. Intercourse, yeah, yeah, yeah. Intercourse. Yeah. Yeah. So they'll be like, have intercourse Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday this week.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Write

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

And like write it down on a piece of paper and give it to you, and then you go, and then you just wait for two weeks to see if you get your period or not. And I feel like that weight is as particularly the last few days.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

is

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

wild. you just read into absolutely every single little sign that your body tells you, whether it's like you're feeling a bit bloated or like tired. And also, which is kind of cruel, the, like the symptoms that you get pre period, a very sim similar to like pregnancy. So like a lot of people find that their boobs get a little bit sore or a little bit bigger or whatever before they get their period, or might get a little bit bloated, but they're also common signs for pregnancy. Oh. So it's just like

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

brutal.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

It's so brutal. but yeah, obviously, yeah, so went through quite, I can't actually remember how many cycles we ended up doing that first time round. but I, I do distinctly remember on, I think it was actually. It was New Years day. Maybe it was new year day or a few days around then. so the, the other thing is, is that when you're on this medication, you can't do a,'cause I know a lot of the time, like people do early pregnancy

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

tests Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

um, to see if they're pregnant. But then what I was having in addition to these, hormones initially, to actually make you ovulate, I was having the, I think they're called fs. No, they're another injection. It's essentially like

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

a,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I think they're called FSH injections. Oh yeah. But they're essentially what your body produces, starts to produce, when it's pregnant. Oh, Like I have those kind of a synthetic version or like an artificial version of that, I guess, which is like kind of trying to support and encourage.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

your body to

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

to it. Yeah. Yeah. so then with that you also, if you were to do an early pregnancy test, you could just get a positive because that medication is obviously like running through a sym a symptom. Yeah. A system. Sorry. Um, and that's what it's picking up on. So they like tell you not to do a pregnancy test until a few days after your, period is due. Another little cruel thing about taking those injections are that they quite often can delay your period by a few days. So at one stage I remember being like completely convinced I was pregnant. and then

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

I think I remember this. Yeah.'cause that's when, because you didn't know that it could delay a period

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. It was like the first time

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. And then you found out afterwards you're like, it would've been really good

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I wish they had told me that a couple weeks ago.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

actually even before we get further down that chat, I always wanna like, not rewind again, but, so you learn basically what was happening in your body, which was that your brain wasn't telling your ovaries to ovulate. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

So it's called hypothalamic and amenorrhea. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

and how long do you know, like, I guess you have no idea how long you'd had that for, because you

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

no, because, so before having the marina, I

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

just had regular periods. Yeah. And

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

at some point over the, five years prior to January last year. Um, yeah, things that obviously changed, I assume it probably would've been fairly recent given that I kind of upped my running mileage I feel like in the year And intensity year, the like year prior. So I assume maybe around. Then, but then I don't really know, like I, I had also been like susceptible. I was getting injured more than the regular person. Mm. Um, which can be like a contributing, that can kind of be a sign. But then also I feel like that's always been the case for me even when I was young. Yeah. Like, I've always just been a bit prone to injury. Yeah. Um, so it's kind of hard to distinguish when it actually started, which is so

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

is so I feel like we've only really been learning through this journey. I say we,'cause I've been, I feel like I've been like learning it as well, but like how much your period is a signal of health in a sense that we take for

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

takes for gra. Yeah. Because I initially, I thought it was like, to put it bluntly, I thought it was the coolest thing ever that I could have contraception and not get my period.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Oh, absolutely. Now

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I'm like, you dum.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

That is like the one sort of thing, not the one thing, but it's like such a good way to kind of like get information from your body that everything's all good or everything's not good. And I think as well, there's something about, I, I don't know, I don't know if you feel the same, but I feel like when I was younger when growing up as a teenager and even in my early twenties, the worst possible thing that could happen was you get pregnant.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which is, yeah,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

my head I had kind

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

of thought

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

it must be so easy to get

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

pregnant kind.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

of thing. Like just so naive because I feel like it was almost like told it was a bit of a scare tactic. Yeah, yeah,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

yeah. Um, because you're right. It's like at that point the goal is don't get

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

pregnant. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

that is what everything Yeah. that you pay attention to and

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

everyth. Mm-hmm.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

like, okay, I just wanna completely de-risk that.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Which is a great thing as well to call out that we're able to like access contraception and like

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

have to worry about it. Yeah. But I guess

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

but I wish I had have

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

educated

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. I wish I also, and that's on me as well.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Like, I wish

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I had, have been better educated on your actual, reproductive system and your menstrual cycle. cause I, yeah. I feel like it's, was almost never really spoken about. Yeah. Yeah. And

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

And so let's, let's assume that maybe it was sort of happening in that year lead up when you were increasing your running, like when was going on in your body. what made it not work?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

so essentially this is gonna be, this is my definition, which if you're a doctor or something, I know that this is probably like the wrong

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

definition,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

but essentially there's like part of your brain, the hypothalamus, that controls your endocrine system and your hormones and everything like that. and it is, I mean, it's pretty cool. So when your body is under, when it's just normal, normal, and like that homeostasis, everything's kind of just trucking along, that like, it obviously like sends signals to your ovaries and everything. And then that's when you ovulate, which means, which determines then when you like, get your period and whatnot. And then when you are like fertile, but when your body's put under stress for whatever reason, so that can be like. Running too much, or like, I know like some people, with eating disorders because they're not getting enough nutrients in. or if you're like in a really like high stress job or if you've been sick even, then your body kind of protects itself and like doesn't send those signals because

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

like you, it doesn't want you to get

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

pregnant. Yeah.'cause it's like, this isn't a safe space to get pregnant right now. Like, we shouldn't be doing that. So it, I mean, it is kind of cool, like, it goes back to like caveman days, I guess. You know, it's like if there's like, if you're like starving or if you're like under threat or, or whatever, you don't wanna be, you don't wanna get pregnant in that time. so I feel like that's essentially what was happening. My, hypothalamus, like within my brain, just like stop sending signals to my ovaries, I guess. Yeah. Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

'cause I remember at the time you also went and saw. A running dietician. Mm. Because you were like, I really wanna make sure that I'm like, yeah. Increasing my training. I wanna make sure that I'm adequately fueling. Like did you, your experience there did you learn like, oh, I don't think I have been fueling enough up till now and I wasn't aware of it. Or you were, was there something you were missing in your diet or, and also wanna understand being celiac, like how does that impact your body's ability to absorb nutrients and everything as well? Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Well, I know that I am not as good as a normal person as absorbing nutrients just'cause of celiac disease, but, in terms of like, I don't really know, I don't know what the correlation or that relationship would be between, how that would impact, in this situation. it would be really

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

interesting. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

because I always thought that I,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Ate

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

A lot and like I do, well, I do eat a lot and I did used to eat a lot, but I don't think I was, as good at eating during the day in a sense. Like I feel like I would have, I would always have, food before I ran then like always have quite a big breakfast. But then quite often at work I feel like I wouldn't have a morning snack. I would just eat lunch and then come home and then I'd be absolutely ravenous and

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Mm. At like

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

huge dinner. So I feel like my timings, I reckon I was probably eating enough, but my timings were probably off. Um, I

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

as well you saying at the timing that. The, the dietician was saying like, you're way too focused on

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

protein. Yeah. And I wasn't getting in enough

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

again, we Yeah. You we were like,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I was like the protein queen. Yeah. but yeah, I think that was probably something else that I, I feel like I had like underestimated the importance of carbs, particularly when you are like running so much. I think for a normal person I would've been like exceeding expectation in like the carb,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

department. Department.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

But I think given how much we were running, yeah. I wouldn't have been having enough, like I'd have a roll or a couple pieces of toast with my lunch. but realistically I should have been doing that then. And then also that, or the equivalent at like morning tea and also afternoon tea as well. so yeah, it's not as though they can say, no one's ever told me. Like it was definitely that. But I just I assume it was that.'cause I just by a kind of. the power of elimination, like I don't know what else it would

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

it's that in combination

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

with the run with the running? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

probably eating the exact right amount that you needed, but then you round up your running and maybe you're having a bit more protein, but you weren't exactly like Yeah. Increasing other things and just didn't realize that you needed to be doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I feel like, I mean, they, so many things that we've talked about in this episode so far, I'm like, I'm so excited to unpack more in future episodes. Yeah,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

yeah, definitely.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

because there is like, there's so much to it, but I feel like it feels kind of unfair when I think back on it.'cause I do feel like you were really conscious of it and trying.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. I would try, like I'd always pack my breakfast to make sure like I had it after a run. Yeah. Because I was always worried that there was not gonna be food that I could eat as a celiac. Yeah. I never, I don't jump, I've never really used scales, but I think now looking back on photos early last year, I was, I don't think I've ever been that small, but at the time I didn't really realize. I just thought I was running a lot. And also you're around other people that are running a lot. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

didn't really. Yeah. but like, I don't know if, Yeah. It's not as though I like all of a sudden randomly dropped a few kilograms.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

It was probably like over a really gradual

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. And I, this comes back to almost like us taking our periods as a signal for granted because probably that would've been the earliest. the first signal if you had been having a reg regular period. And it

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

it,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

because, as you say, if you're not weighing yourself, and it happens really gradually, um, and you didn't realize, but it was all happening. It was all kind of hidden. Yeah. Because of that. And, and who knows, maybe there would've been other ways to know that maybe, maybe period is like a lagging indicator anyway, like losing your period, but still, it almost feels you're flying blind because that was

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

happening. That was, yeah. Yeah. And I feel like the, well, yeah, I mean, like on next week's episode we'll talk about, what happened next. But I do feel like even now there's like, I have a lot of guilt around the idea that I was kind of hurting myself in a sense, when I was like trying to. Do the right thing. but I don't know. I mean, like, everyone makes mistakes and that's just something

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Would be, oh, I mean, I've, I think that will be like a universally relatable thing for runners. Like I think most, for most runners, there's a really positive relationship there and they're doing it because they think it's a good thing. Yeah. For their body and their health. And I think we, there are times for all of us that we fall into the trap where it's not good for us anymore. And even like with me, with Berlin last year, and I got so burnt out and was sick all the time, like that obviously wasn't good for my health. And I look back on it and, you know, have reflected a lot on this that I'm like, oh wow, why did I keep pushing my body through that? And so I do think, yeah, it's easy to feel guilt, but it's, it's definitely very, it's just. The most like relatable experience to go through. Yeah. Even though you obviously wouldn't wish it upon anyone. No.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

But yeah, I guess you kind of hope that like you've learned enough that then like next time

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. What is the difference? There's a very ignorant question, but what is the difference between that, what did you call it, hypothermic, and

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

and minea.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

what's difference between that and red s

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

that is a great question.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Oh, they, they might just be totally different things.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

So reds, which is the relative energy deficiency in. Sport is like a broader syndrome that encompasses a whole heap of different things. So if she's arising from an energy

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Oh,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. so I guess hypothalamic amenorrhea is a component of reds, which also includes low bone density, and other hormonal, um, issues. So

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

it's like you can have red s and not have what you had Yeah. Necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But then that also explains why that relative energy deficiency, as you say, maybe why you were getting other injuries

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

as well. Yeah, yeah. And

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

explain to me why, how come when you stopped running and you at that point, like traveling around Europe? You know, eating beautiful European food, et cetera. Like why doesn't your period come back?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

so I think it often takes a while for it to come back because like. Anything. I guess as we were speaking about before, how the reason why it happens is because like your body doesn't feel like it's like a safe environment or whatever to house baby. it takes a while for your body to realize okay, this is all right now, and like get things back on track. And I think the longer that you have been in that state, the longer it can take to get your like period back. Like when I saw the endocrinologist, they were sort of saying that without the, you can go on the sort of fertility way of things and like have the injector the like additive hormones, but they're like, they're not gonna fix the problem. They just like

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

mm. They're a bit of a bandaid fix. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

a sense. but the way to actually fix the problem is to stop running, eat more. and that can often. If you, if you go that natural way, um, which is what most people would do if they're not trying to fall

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

pregnant. Yep. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I think it can take years to get back to that homeostasis. Mm. Yeah. So even though for me at the time, I was like, what the bloody hell? Yeah. It's been two months. Why my period come back? I think that was also very naive of me to, and impatient. Probably an impatient way thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

What do you think, before, let's say like before you found out you were pregnant the first time, what was the hardest part for you?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

the idea that I think I've always wanted to have kids from a young age and all of a sudden I was hit with this reality that that might never happen. And that choice is sort of taken away. I think I was, I was honestly petrified that for some reason my body couldn't get, I wouldn't be able to get pregnant.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

How did that, like, did your relationship with your body change at all

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah, for sure. I feel like it's even like different now. Like, I feel like I don't, I feel a lot, I actually said this like for the first time today, the other day, that I didn't even realize that I felt this way until I was kind of vocalizing it. But I feel like I've kind of had this like, lack of connection between me and my body in a sense. And I feel like I almost like don't trust it in a way.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Um.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

which has been really strange. And also it makes you, it makes you feel a lot less. Not that I've like, always felt super feminine and like sexy or whatever, but that has really, I just did not feel feminine at all really. Yeah, it was, it was really, it's really sad'cause I kind of was like, oh, the one thing that you body's meant to do, it's like, can't do

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

not doing at the moment. which is, yeah, it's, yeah, like, it's a weird, it's a, it's a really weird disconnect between like, my, like brain. Well, yeah. Literally that was the disconnect. But then like

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. How do you,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

as well,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

how do you even reframe that? Like that is a, that is such a, even hearing you say that is such like a jarring

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

idea. Yeah. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. Yeah. And, and maybe for, for anyone listening who is struggling with that,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

how would you. Do you have a way that you try and reframe that for yourself? Or is it still something that

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I feel like I'm still struggling with it a little bit, but I think the, I mean like the amazing things about our bodies are that like a lot of things are reversal. so just because you are in sort of, just because that's not happening at that one time, it doesn't mean that it like can't happen again. so I feel like with time, but also just trying to, I know it sounds so cliche, but just trying to actually be kind of kind to

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Mm-hmm.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

I really feel like yoga and that kind of stuff helps me more so in the sense and like even Pilates and just like being, without having distractions like your phone or anything.'cause I feel like that's the time where you connect with yourself. I feel like it's so easy and I do a lot, but, it's so easy to just be busy all the time that you kind of are just running around and like, don't kind of ground yourself in a way. I know, I feel like that almost sounds a bit woo woo. No,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

No, no, I totally hear that. It's like actually just spending time in your body. Mm. It's, it is like, it's almost like mindfulness. Yeah,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And even like going on a massage with Rose and stuff, having that time to like, we chat to her and everything, but having someone like feel your body and like being a bit more connected, being like, oh, like my foot's like, I dunno, my foot's a bit tight, or whatever. Just kind of being a bit more centered, I guess. Yeah. but I think time, like I still, I still definitely like don't, I mean, it's different now being pregnant, but like, I feel like I'm not quite the, I don't have the same connection as I did maybe before all of this started, but I'm definitely better than I was like this time last year. Yeah. Mm.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Okay. And tell us about finding out you were pregnant for the first time.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

it

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

it was a Wednesday morning, because I remember I got told to, as I said before, we, I couldn't do a pregnancy test, until a few days after my period was expecting just'cause of the This is in Jan? Yeah, yeah. anyway, and I knew that on the Wednesday, I was allowed to, so I was just like, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. I was just like, please don't come. The weird thing was, is that I didn't feel, I think previously I had like felt something, like I've felt some symptoms or whatever. and I just, I hadn't really felt anything. so I kind of assumed that meant I wasn't pregnant. Um, but we normally go for a swim on Wednesday morning and I remember just Wednesday morning came around and I remember just my alarm went off and just opening my eyes and just like running to the bathroom. And then, yeah, then like Dave was literally like right there and we were just like, oh my god. Um, and then went to swimming. It was kind of, it's so strange'cause I feel like in your head, your, your world has kind of changed. But you know, like I hadn't had a blood test yet to confirm it or anything, but I was just like, oh my God. It was, honestly, it was so cool. It was, it was actually amazing. and then I remember that weekend,'cause we had done the blood test, we, we'd already said that we'd go for Andrew's hamburgers to celebrate. Which is like this, hamburger shop in Albert Park. for whenever we did fall pregnant and like we went there on Saturday night and then got ice cream after. I feel like it was just, it was so exciting, but it was also, it was like such a relief definitely for both of us. But I feel like, particularly for me, just getting back to the how I was like kind of worried that I was just never gonna be able to fall pregnant. I was just like, holy, holy heck. Like this is real.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. It can, it's happened.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah. Yeah. It was so cool. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

maybe we should on that No,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yes. We'll end on that heavy note

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

because yes, there'll be a lot more, there is a lot more of the journey to unpack next week. but thank you for sharing.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

That's all right. Thank you for, I'm so sorry

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

that you had to go through all that.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Oh, don't. thanks for making it such a nice space to share. Oh,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

that's okay.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

okay. I'm sorry if I blabbered

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

on so much. No, no, no, no. I, I mean, I, I feel like even though like I knew obviously we were talking pretty much that whole time about what was going on in your life, looking back on it, I'm hit again by just how massive it's been for you. Yeah. And we haven't even gotten to the big, the hardest parts in a lot of ways are still to come. And I still, I know you said before that you're like, oh, I feel like my personality changed and like, obviously I knew you were really stressed and under pressure, but your ability to obvious, not just remain like a really good friend to everyone in your life, but I wanna even call out like rock up to this podcast every single week to talk about running with a smile on your face even when you couldn't run. For so long, and you'd been, and you were dealing with all of this and you still, every week, there were months where your, your notable run was not a

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

run.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

like you would still talk about running with all the enthusiasm that any listener could wish and just like bring the passion and the energy because even, even though at that time, like the Yeah, as I said, so much stress for you going on. Yeah. And also you weren't able to even enjoy running in the way that you had been in the past. And I just, I'm in awe of that. Like that is resilience of an entirely different level. So

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Thank you. That's very nice. I'm gonna start crying again.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

We'll

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

in your ears next week.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. So, no. Yeah. So anyone listening?

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Thank you though. Yeah, I, well, yeah, I definitely, I feel like you have been, I feel like we've joked about it, but you've been like the third

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

person.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

in this whole experience. It's been

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

bored on

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Dave, and you,

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

I've very

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

you have to deal with everything. I'm very

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

I'm very invested in this journey and yeah, we will. Yeah. We'll, we'll dive into the rest of it next week, but all the listeners, thank you for listening and yeah, if, if any of this has been hard to hear, if any of you have had similar journeys, Anna and I hearts go out to you. Yes. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

and yeah, if you, I am happy to chat about it or Yeah, if anyone ever needs any, not that advice. Advice is probably a too strong a word, but anyone needs any support or anything. Our dms are always open.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

Yeah. And also if, if you are run who isn't on contraception or does, you know. It doesn't have anything that would interfere with their period, that's really put incorrectly. But maybe like, definitely if you're noticing changes in your period, that's a really important thing to pay attention

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

That's almost a takeaway, for everyone is look into it, understand it if you do normally have a regular period and it changes because that's such a big learning for us is that is a sign that there's some maybe something going on. Yeah. That is worth understanding. What is, what would be causing that. Yeah.

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Pay attention to your body

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

and sign that for cheeky track nights

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

and register for the clinic event.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

hard, hard pivot. Yes,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Um, all right. We can't wait to be in your ears next week. Bye bye. and register for the clinic event.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

hard, hard pivot. Yes,

ZOOM0017_Tr4:

Um, all right. We can't wait to be in your ears next week. Bye bye.

ZOOM0017_Tr3:

We have some truly momentous news about something that we have been cooking on. Not really me.