Cheeky Run Club

All the things!! Data, laughs, pregnancy and some snoozy gals!!

• Anna Coldham

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Happy Monday crew!

 This week, we’re exploring the controversy around Whoops watches at the Australian Open, and our thoughts on players being banned for wearing them.

This week’s Health Diary is all about sleep, and we'll be experimenting with the best ways to improve our sleep over the next few weeks. Finally, we’ll see how week 33 of pregnancy is treating Anna, and where she’s at in her running journey.

 Thank you New Balance and Rebel Sport for making this episode of Cheeky Run Club possible.

LINKS:

-   Let's talk about Sleep with Liv Knowles

-   Running during pregnancy with Rachel Fitt

-   Trends in HR and HRV in pregnancy

-  How to interpret data from your wearables

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Anna:

Cheeky

Phoebe:

Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land.

Anna:

This episode is brought to you by New Balance and the new version 15 of one of the most popular daily trainers ever, the 10 eighties.

Phoebe:

Welcome to Cheeky Run Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community via your everyday amateur runner. Hello Anna. Hello, Phoebe and hello listeners.

Anna:

we have a jam packed episode for the rundown, we're discussing a controversy around should wearables be class as performance enhancers for elite athletes. In our health diary segment, we're going to talk about some sleep experiments we are running. And then finally, for the weekly wattle, we're getting a week 33 pregnancy update and going to learn about some interesting research whoop has done on how biomarkers can possibly predict when you're going to labor well before it actually happens.

Phoebe:

I feel like two things. First of all, it feels good to have a script back in front of us,

Anna:

Oh my God, that was amazing.

Phoebe:

I've what the second.

Anna:

say.

IMG_2280-1:

thing,

Anna:

second of all,

Phoebe:

all. You're rubbing off on me. I feel like you,

Anna:

how

Phoebe:

many times in our conversation LA today where you like, so I don't remember what I was gonna say.

Anna:

I read this thing the other day, actually, one of my friends hand sent it to me and it couldn't be more relevant. It said something about, oh my God, I can't even remember what it said. No,

Phoebe:

moving on.

Anna:

no. It said something about how, why is it that I have two brains inside my body at the moment, but I've never been so dumb.

Phoebe:

baby brain.

Anna:

And I was like, oh gosh, this really resonates. Anyhow, it is also, I will say, this is really sad and I'm not gonna get emotional, but it's our last recording before you move to squid.

Phoebe:

Oh my God. Don't say that and then ask me to not get emotional. It's so sad. Except for the fact that I'm back in about three weeks. Yeah. And we'll, we'll.

Anna:

Certainly three weeks. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

we'll do a really nice, I mean, we're still obviously gonna be recording in the meantime, but it will be so sad, although we can talk a little bit more about that in maybe my

Anna:

work. I thought you were gonna say. We can still talk.

Phoebe:

We can still talk. I'll allow

Anna:

gal. Anyway, first let's kick it off with our notable runs of the week. Phoebe, give me your best.

Phoebe:

my favorite running related activity this week was, a running related activity. It was a swim. Oh, yeah. With

Anna:

With me.

Phoebe:

Didn't Yeah. With you. Yeah. Yeah. so I've got a bit of a down week in my program this week, which. I was quite excited for. So I had a little bit more rest days and lower mileage. And on Sunday night you messaged me saying, thoughts on a swim Tomorrow. And I said, absolutely. Up for a swim. And you guys like to do sessions in your swim? I would say there's always a part of me that, in the nicest possible way, dreads, dreads, going for a swim with you guys'cause you're all so good and you can just swim. For hours. It feels like in my head you just keep

Anna:

swimming. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Like I'm pretty happy with like a 20 minute swim and then Yeah. And I feel like I get bored.

Anna:

Yes. Well, I do remember because you got in late. Yeah. Which we knew. But then once you realized that our Spanish correspondent, who we were swimming with had also just jumped in your face, you looked so

Phoebe:

I

Anna:

cause you're like, oh no, they still are gonna take

Phoebe:

They've still got, we've got so long to swim. So anyway, I was swimming in the lane next to you and then you guys were doing a session and I thought, okay, I'll do that version of the session just at my own pace, in my own lane. And the session, for anyone who's wandering, it was 10 by 100 meter effort, or no, 10 by 100 meters. And that. every second one was hard. Yeah. And every first one was easy except reversed. Yeah. Because the first one was hard. The first one was hard.

Anna:

odd numbers, hard

Phoebe:

Third one was hard. Second, fourth one was easy. Are you picking up the pattern? Okay. So, and, and you have a break between each of them

Anna:

well. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Anyway, it flew by. I really enjoyed it to the extent that you guys are doing the cool down afterwards and you had to basically drag me

Anna:

outta the I know.

IMG_2280-1:

I, no,

Anna:

We, I just assumed that you were already in the change rooms and then looked over and I was like, she's still going. And then you went to do another lab.

Phoebe:

to do another laugh. I was having so much fun and. It was just, I felt like we've been having some boiling hot weather. It is such a peaceful activity to do. And again, when you're doing it with friends, get coffee afterwards. Yeah.

Anna:

It's still, you still sort of fill up that like social

Phoebe:

Yeah, exactly. Anyway, so that was my favorite.

Anna:

Oh, I love that.

Phoebe:

What was your best running related or running activity?

Anna:

Mine was on Tuesday morning at Tuesday Track. I feel like this is just

Phoebe:

like.

Anna:

I rinse and repeat saying this, but it's just so nice to like be around people, especially when you haven't really been running

Phoebe:

Oh yeah.

Anna:

or like had some time off. and there was just really good vibes, because it's summer, there's so many more people down at the track. Everyone's just in a good mood, I think.'cause it's light and fairly warm. And we did, yeah. Did some running. Did some walking. I joined in for a hot lap with everyone at the start. Oh, when you like first started your session, did you? Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

I was behind you.

Phoebe:

I didn't know you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's nice.

Anna:

and yeah, it was just

Phoebe:

Yeah. Nice.

Anna:

gosh. Trying to run fast. At 33 weeks pregnant. I felt like my lungs were the si, lungs were the size of a pee. Oh,

Phoebe:

Oh, really?

Anna:

yeah. But I just wanted to, I just wanted to do

Phoebe:

one Yeah. Yeah. You can't help yourself. Oh,

Anna:

I know, But yes, that was my best running related. And then we had coffee after.

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

It was really nice. Yes. That was my best running related activity this week, and I feel like, sorry, I'll just keep going.

Phoebe:

Go for it.

Anna:

to what I do on a Tuesday morning, I feel like I really can't allude you to keep on chatting on a Tuesday morning anymore. Because normally I just keep talking to people and they almost don't realize, and I feel like you picked up it on it a couple

Phoebe:

No.

IMG_2280-1:

And

Anna:

then you're like, and then you said you're like, oh,

Phoebe:

Uh,

Anna:

Just wait one more thing

Phoebe:

Because you do this thing where like, you know, we'll finish coffee and we'll finally get up from the table and then we'll walk to our car and then you'll have another story to tell. However, I normally, and I still would have this week, had more time, but I'm gonna blame Joe. My brother, he had to get to work.

Anna:

Let's blame Joe.

Phoebe:

Yeah. He had to go to work and so, and I was dropping him home beforehand

Anna:

know. And he didn't wanna pick my couch color with me.

Phoebe:

Oh my God. Yes. And it's like, wait guys, a need, I

Anna:

guys, I need, I'll be one sec looking up which couch should I buy? Like

Phoebe:

You're like, what else is there? So yeah, blame Joe. I would've been there for at least another 15 minutes if it had been up

Anna:

Done you Joe? Nah, it was good for me as well.'cause I actually was on time for once. What is your worst run running related activity this week?

Phoebe:

My worst is this week I've been. Every run I've done, I've been like, that's my last Tuesday run in Melbourne. That's my last Wednesday run in Melbourne. That's my last, yeah. And I really have been feeling, I'm feeling really excited for the movie because I'm really excited to see Sean again. He's been there for a few weeks already and I'm like looking forward to, you know, settling into things in Sydney. But I'm feeling not nervous is maybe the wrong word, but I'm just like.

Anna:

like,

Phoebe:

Wow, there's a big, such a big journey ahead when you move cities. Mm-hmm. And obviously I've lived in Sydney before. I do have some friends there, so that's great. And that makes life so much easier as a starting point than starting

Anna:

And like you have a group to run with and Yeah.

Phoebe:

Yeah. But it'll just be like. A new, I'll have to find like, who do I run with on a Monday? Who

Anna:

do I, yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Because we're obviously so reliant on running with people that we need, um, locked in people. But, I have been like thinking ahead of being like, oh, well, I'm gonna have to put in, I'm definitely, I have to put in a lot more effort to start with, to get into people's running loops

Anna:

yeah, yeah. Almost just get into their kind of thought process on a Sunday night when they're like organizing a run on Monday to be like off. He would want to,

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yep. Ask, ask

Anna:

yeah. I know what you mean. I feel like, yeah, you will have to put in that

Phoebe:

effort for Mm.

Anna:

a little bit, but then.

Phoebe:

I'll

Anna:

fun. You'll come back to Melbourne. I'm joking,

Phoebe:

Don't try too hard. Um,

Anna:

like I want you to have fun, but not too much fun.

Phoebe:

That's it. What was your worst run or running related activity?

Anna:

Mine was.

Phoebe:

You

Anna:

Okay, I'm gonna say this morning, but I want to put a caveat in. I did actually have a really nice walk with you, so it's got nothing to do with the company.

Phoebe:

don't worry, Anna. I knew when this happened this morning that this would be your worst run of the week. There was no doubt in my mind.

Anna:

So we went for a run this morning, and then after about a cane and a half, I kind of got this pain ar around my,

Phoebe:

hmm.

Anna:

around my pubic area anyway, and I have. Googled all my symptoms and read a couple of things and I think I have what they call lightning crutch.

Phoebe:

Wow. Is that

Anna:

Yeah,

Phoebe:

I just assumed it was a version of perfect pelvic

Anna:

pain. Yeah, that's kind of, that's, that's literally what I assumed at the start, which is why I was like, this is just

Phoebe:

yeah. yeah.

Anna:

like take one

Phoebe:

Wow. Talk to me about light. That sounds exciting.

Anna:

It does, doesn't it? So it's really common in pregnancy, particularly in the third trimester, as the baby gets heavier. But essentially it is, as the baby grows and puts on weight, it puts more pressure on your cervix and the nerves around it. So like if it's leaning on something, then you kind of get this stabbing literally kind of what it's called, this, kind of

Phoebe:

Ah, yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

feeling?

Phoebe:

Is that what it felt

Anna:

when Yeah, because it was re it was really weird and it did, it does kind of feel a bit nervy

Phoebe:

will it? Mm.

Anna:

Anyway. And then, but literally as soon as you stop running, then it completely went away. Yeah. And then I continued to read. Apparently then as you get closer to going into labor than even when you're just like sitting around, just randomly. Well,'cause if, if she, well in my case, she like randomly sort of

Phoebe:

moves on your

Anna:

or like precious on something, then

Phoebe:

Oh,

Anna:

like get that stabbing feeling. Oh yeah, yeah. Crazy.

Phoebe:

But, um, so.

Anna:

It

Phoebe:

maybe triggered by the running,

Anna:

Yeah. So then I was well, which it makes sense'cause if you think about it as you run, there's like more force and impact the baby's having on your pelvic area and cervix. It just depends on like their positioning and everything. Well, good on you. Yes. Yeah. But I did, I will say I did have a very nice walk. It was a nice, it was a nice walk. Just not what

Phoebe:

have a run in your head and you walk, it's disappointing. Unless you're me and you were feeling so exhausted, could you probably running anyway. And the second you were like, I'm gonna walk, I was like,

Anna:

done. Yeah, I know I was. So, because I was thinking, oh my God, I'm just gonna be walking by myself. But I had a little

Phoebe:

I was there. So before we kick into the rundown topic for this week, we went to a very, very speedy recap of our first ever live show slash, which we didn't realize at the time, our 100th episode. Wild. How crazy is

Anna:

The only reason why we found out it was our hundredth episode is because the platform that we actually publish the episodes onto sent us an email with these balloons and stuff being like, congrats, you've just published your hundredth episode. Yeah. And I was like, wow.

Phoebe:

I know. I remember being told when we first were starting cheeky that most podcasts never make it past 20

Anna:

Mm.

Phoebe:

Mm. And so that was our first goal was like, get to 20.

IMG_2280-1:

And

Anna:

I, I distinctly remember when we got there and we were like, oh my God, we've done it.

Phoebe:

we've done it. We hit 20, now we're on a hundred. And what that actually. It was no better way to celebrate than the way that we

Anna:

did. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Like doing our first recording, doing the run beforehand, having the community there. It was a really fun

Anna:

morning. It was so fun. And the New Balance popup in Fed Square was

Phoebe:

It was really cool. Or,

Anna:

or, check out our in Instagram,'cause you can actually like see it way better. But they had these flag, it looked like it was like a permanent Yeah. Building kind of thing.

Phoebe:

crazy that it's not.

Anna:

Yeah, Yeah. And then they had this little shop at the front, and then you walked through and there was like a cafe and then a barber, but then was rotating between being a barber and a nail

Phoebe:

Salon. Yeah. It's so cool. It was so cool. I feel like the episode, I don't know if listeners could tell when, if you guys listened to the recording, but we were pretty nervous at the

Anna:

start when I was awkward as shit in the first five minutes.

Phoebe:

both were our best runs of the week and worst runs of the week. I feel like we just, there's something really different about right now, me telling you my best

Anna:

and worst. Mm.

Phoebe:

and then when you're telling it to 80 people and well obviously we're actually telling it to way more people on the podcast right now, but remember telling it in person. I just the feeling that you have to like be telling a, A big

Anna:

story. Yeah.

Phoebe:

It was really, it was like, it overwhelmed us slightly, but then I think we got into the swing.

Anna:

my worst run went for 10 seconds. I said, shake me your legs while pregnant. What's yours?

Phoebe:

I was like, oh, potato and

Anna:

today I am like, I have

Phoebe:

yeah, 15 minutes of exploration on lightning cru. But um, then I think we got into the swing of it, and thank you so much to everyone who came because. They were such good

Anna:

sports. They were, everyone was so,

Phoebe:

so. Everyone was so nice. Everyone was, they were laughing. They were smiling. Everyone. Every time I like looked out, people would like No.

Anna:

Encourage me. Yeah. so sweet.

Phoebe:

It was so sweet.

Anna:

No heckling. It

Phoebe:

really nice. That was no hair link. Thank you. That would've been hard. Um, so yes. Thank you to everyone who came and thank you so much to New Balance. That was just such a genuinely cool opportunity that I'm so glad that we

Anna:

got. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Also everyone got the chance to try the new 10 eighties. Um, yes,

Anna:

And I didn't actually run in them, but what did you think?

Phoebe:

Yeah. You walked

Anna:

in them.

Phoebe:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. oh yeah. I mean, I've run'em a few times now. They're a great shoe. Mm-hmm. They're a very comfortable

Anna:

shoe. Yeah. they are.,

Phoebe:

I think they're the perfect combination between soft and bouncy. Like, they're not stodgy. You don't like sink into them, but they're really comfortable. Yeah. Like you don't feel the ground. Mm-hmm.

Anna:

yeah, I'd say great everyday trainer.

Phoebe:

thank you so much to New Balance and Rebel Sport for sponsoring these episodes and for helping bring that one to life.

Anna:

Yes. Thank you. you. Alright, Alright, so let's get into the rundown topic of today. Yes, yes. This is where we'll join in the conversation on running current affairs could be running the news, some element of running subculture we wanna dissect or we might respond to some of the hot takes our listeners send us. Today's though, you've bought to the ep I have absolutely no idea. And what, talk me through

Phoebe:

I have, I have supplied this one. so this comes off the back of some controversial decisions that have been being made at the Aus Open Grand Slam, which is on at the moment. So did you see that the world number ones Ariana Lanka and someone Alcaraz, I've

Anna:

forgot Carlos.

Phoebe:

name. Carlos. Carlos? Raz and Lanka both were asked to remove their wearables, which specifically they both had whoop

Anna:

bands.

Phoebe:

Oh. And they were asked to remove them by the umpires and

Anna:

play, or during or,

Phoebe:

yeah. Not before their first game, but before subsequent games. And they did. And it's caused quite a bit of controversy, to say the least. it's umpires that have said that they can't, be wearing them. However, whoop has come out outraged. They've actually said, That they are express shipping, their body collection. so they have, apparently they have on the garments with built-in sensor devices and it's express shipping them to all their sponsored players so they can continue to wear them because they're basically, whoop is saying that they apparently are cleared with the World Tennis

Anna:

Association. Mm-hmm.

Phoebe:

that they're fine. Tennis Australia has yeah, they said they're not currently permitting them at Grand Slams. They said that they are providing data to players, key data around a distance covered change in direction, et cetera. But that. They're not allowing further data tracking than that. And it's because it's from a performance enhancement

Anna:

perspective. Oh. cause they feel like it's an unfair

Phoebe:

advantage. It's an unfair advantage. So when you look at, the definition for, an unfair performance, what is class as an unfair performance enhancers, it's basically substances including hormone stimulants and anabolic steroids that are used by athletes to unnaturally improve physical performance, strength, or body composition. And technically they need to, they're prohibited. If they unfairly enhance performance, they risk health or they violate the spirit of the sport. So, I mean, I don't think, it's obviously not technically doping because it's not a substance, but they clearly believe that it either provides an unfair performance advantage or violates the spirit of the sport.

Anna:

Okay. But it is pure because there are so many sports that you can wear. Any kind of wearable force. Yeah. So it's purely

Phoebe:

but I maybe, I don't know if other sports are also gonna have to have their own reckoning when it comes to what is a useful amount of, or what is like an okay

Anna:

Yeah. I just feel like it's so gray though.

Phoebe:

I wonder if this is, where it comes back to is in theory these devices, when you, when you stop looking at professional and you look at like the sporting body and and you know, the. pathway into professionalism. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe there's a belief that if you have access to these devices, which like obviously they're expensive, and if you're an

Anna:

Yeah, that's

Phoebe:

Then maybe you are unfair, you get an unfair advantage by having access to them. Like that's, I, I don't necessarily think I agree

Anna:

with Yeah, because then as well, you could argue for something like cycling. I know that power meters that measure your watts, they're

Phoebe:

Well, some level is data.

Anna:

it's like, well, what is it?

Phoebe:

it? Are

Anna:

Are they, should

Phoebe:

they, are they gonna

Anna:

Banned? Yeah. Yeah. Or even like, if you think about it, you know, if you're in some sort of institute and they do a lot of LAC take testing, but then if you are in a country that has less sporting resources and whatnot and they don't provide things like that, it's not as though.

Phoebe:

can't be like.

Anna:

then just be like, we're banning lactate testing.

Phoebe:

I know. Yeah, so I don't know what will happen with it. I mean, I imagine that they'll do some sort of review and then they'll have to come out with their tail between their legs and say it's fine. In which case, I think this is like the best possible marketing.

Anna:

Oh, for,

Phoebe:

whoop or any of these wearables. It reminds me of when, do you remember when Nike first released the alpha flies? Mm. And they got

Anna:

that's right. Yeah.

Phoebe:

'cause it was like they're an unfair advantage. Yeah. And then when they were real allowed, everyone's like, oh, okay. Okay. Like it is, it's the

Anna:

it. That's so true. It's such a good marketing thing for them because if the big federations or the sporting organizations are looking to ban something, then your average Joe, when they do become available are gonna be like, okay, well there's obviously something in this.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Get one. Absolutely. so yeah, I mean it'll be interesting. Maybe different sporting bodies will end up coming up with their own kind of rules and regulations around it. or maybe this would just be a total like. Flop and it won't actually have any Yeah. It, it doesn't really make sense to me.

Anna:

No,

Phoebe:

To be honest,

Anna:

careful, you might have to take off your aura ring

Phoebe:

Yeah. For the next running race I do.

Anna:

Can you imagine Cheeky track nights, bands, yeah. Wearables.

Phoebe:

To take them off.

IMG_0592:

that you take off.

Anna:

love it. Thank you for that

IMG_2280-1:

Take care.

Phoebe:

That's okay.

IMG_2280-1:

Um,

Anna:

little bit of tennis thrown in the

Phoebe:

mix. I know. Running related. Yeah. Obviously Oh yeah. We love wearables. Wearables are actually a key theme in this episode.

Anna:

They are,

Phoebe:

because we're pretty much gonna talk about them both the next two as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, they'll be relevant. Not the whole

Anna:

Yeah, that's a good segue actually into our next segment, which is Health Diaries, which is a new segment that we are introducing this year where we unpack the big and small health decisions we make every day. And in doing so, attempt to navigate our way through the health and wellness industry together and give you all a little insight into it. this week we're actually kicking off a little series. And experiment on sleep because both of us, for different reasons have been struggling with our sleep and we are going to, both sort of pick three different things to trial to see if that improves our sleep at all. Obviously, we'll do them. Separately. Yeah. as in like we won't all do them all together'cause otherwise we won't be able to realize what it is.

Phoebe:

which one is making a difference.

Anna:

So we're gonna just do one at a time.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Because we've done, we've had sleep expert, Liv knows on before we did two episodes on sleep. Yeah. which were incredibly informative and we learned a lot and highly recommend people listen to them. Obviously sleep is like. Just as important as your training when it comes to running is like your ability to absorb that training and recover each night. And we thought what would be fun? Because this health diary segment is really focused on Practical real life application of information. how do we use the information we have to impact the decisions that we make about our own health and our bodies? We thought it'd be fun to do. Yeah. As Anna said, this series of experiments where we trial things that are meant to help with people's sleep. Yeah. If you're listening, you are also struggling with your sleep. You may be, might trial some of them with us. do you wanna tell me what you're struggling with in your sleep?

Anna:

I am really struggling to get to sleep at the moment. I think it's very, again, from what I've read,

Phoebe:

it's

Anna:

very common in pregnancy, especially later pregnancy. just like as the baby grows, there's more discomfort and, yeah.

Phoebe:

I,

Anna:

I, honestly, essentially, it's so strange. Like I've never had issues with sleeping before and I'm so tired, but I just can't fall

Phoebe:

asleep. Yeah.

Anna:

so weird. So I just kind of, I just lay there. It

Phoebe:

That is so frustrating. What are your sleep scores like?

Anna:

oh, they're actually, the aura is it's,

Phoebe:

it's nice,

Anna:

very nice. Particularly'cause it knows how pregnant, yeah, yeah. It obviously, so it like takes that into account. so yeah, there's like nothing. There's nothing sort of like out of the ordinary

Phoebe:

It's quite reassuring, isn't it?'cause it's like, it'll know that you have like a high time to get to sleep. It'll be like mm-hmm. Maybe it took you out to fall asleep, but you got some good

Anna:

quality Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're there. Yeah.

Phoebe:

there darling.

Anna:

but yes, so that is my issue. And then I kind of start to get like restless legs a little bit. Like I have to get

Phoebe:

up, stretch

Anna:

stretch my ankles and calves.

Phoebe:

Oh,

Anna:

weird. but yeah, all just pregnancy things. Um, what about you? What are you struggling with?

Phoebe:

I'm struggling. I am falling asleep. Well, um,

Anna:

we're almost like the

Phoebe:

opposite. Yeah, we're almost the opposite.'cause I wake up early in the morning, usually around 4:00 AM and cannot get back

Anna:

to sleep.

Phoebe:

And I,

Anna:

I ruminate in that time. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

my mind just fixates on something that I'm stressed about and just decides to panic

Anna:

panic. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

Um.

Anna:

which is a great

Phoebe:

And I would say, yeah, I would say same as historically, I've been a really good sleeper and this has sort of crept in, I would say over the last maybe six months, I've had this I don't know, ramping up of.

IMG_0592:

of,

Anna:

No,

Phoebe:

actually don't even know. I feel like you always feel like you're getting more stress in life, but I, I don't think I've been particularly stressed historically, and I do feel like I've been struggling more with it recently, and that has definitely been, I think it's because of stress. Like, I don't think there's any other reason, but I don't think I've been very proactive with being like, okay, I am trying to manage the, things that are causing stress in my life for sure. But what can I do around my sleep to give myself the best chance? Of having really good quality

Anna:

a wrestle night.

Phoebe:

not wake up and, or even if I am waking up, optimizing, the quality of sleep before that. so yeah. I mean, as you said, they're both gonna try a few different sleep experiments Mm. Over the next couple

Anna:

couple weeks. Yes. So we're gonna do three each, over three weeks. do you wanna run me through what yours are?

Phoebe:

Mm-hmm. I've just decided a new one. I'm actually gonna flip out one of mine. So, First one that I'm gonna try is I think that. My timing of when I eat has a big impact on my sleep.

Anna:

Sleep. Yeah. Okay. Do you eat, you eat dinner late,

Phoebe:

When I do eat dinner late, which I do sometimes do. My sleep quality and my recovery scores are so, I think are much lower and I, I haven't really paid attention to it before. someone at work was talking about it and saying they'd noticed it had a big impact and I was like, oh, that actually rings true. And I think I can be a bit when I'm busy at work. Eating comes last and I'll just eat last thing in the night Before Yeah. Yeah. So what I want to try and do to me. yeah, it is crazy. It's really bad. but what I wanna try and do over the next few weeks is like, have a regular early dinner time. Yeah. Like what, what time do you have dinner? anywhere

Anna:

from

Phoebe:

six

Anna:

to seven. Yeah. I, doesn't matter what I'm doing, I feel like food is always like. Top of mind

Phoebe:

for me. Mm. And

Anna:

really get hangry. So the earlier I ate,

Phoebe:

the better. Yeah.

Anna:

For the whole

Phoebe:

household. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Anna:

Um, but yeah, I would

Phoebe:

30 seven's a good

Anna:

goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

Phoebe:

The next one will be, no phone in the bedroom. Yeah. Which is something that we've talked about on this pod

Anna:

Yeah, I feel like I've

Phoebe:

nearly two years. You know what, the block, the blocker is the alarm

Anna:

clock. The blocker is the alarm clock. And for me, this illogical idea in my head that if something happens

IMG_0592:

happens

Anna:

or someone

Phoebe:

contacts me

Anna:

and it's an e.

IMG_0592:

emergency.

Anna:

I won't know, but I'm not gonna know that anyway'cause my phone's always on

Phoebe:

silent. Yeah.

Anna:

But the, the thought that it's like five extra meters away Yeah. For some reason gets like, plays with my brain

Phoebe:

Maybe after doing it for a few

Anna:

nights and Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. Probably shouldn't have voiced that.

Phoebe:

Um, no, no, that's fair. So yeah, we're gonna, we're going to order some alarm clocks. Mm-hmm. And we're going to do phone out of the room and. I have a different thing that'll be waking us up in the morning. And then my third thing that I'm gonna do is meditation.

Anna:

Mm.

Phoebe:

I think meditation. It's not something, it's not that I've turned my nose up, but I've never felt like I needed it. I've always been like, everyone is my meditation. Um, so annoying. No, but I have always felt like I haven't needed it and I found it hard, which obviously everyone finds it hard when they haven't done it before. but I I'm at the stage where I think I need to experiment properly with it and see does this have an impact on my ability to calm myself down

Anna:

And what You'll do that before trying to go go into sleep or when you're in bed.

Phoebe:

My plan would be to try and do it before I get into

Anna:

bed Into bed. Yeah.

Phoebe:

think I, I fall asleep so quickly that I think if I did it in bed lying down, I would just

Anna:

pause. Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

can I like sit on the couch or something? Do a brief meditation Yeah. Or breathing exercise. I really like quite like breathing exercises, so experiment with that. But that'll be my third experiment. I'm gonna work my way up to that

Anna:

one. Yep. Um, love it.

Phoebe:

And how about you?

Anna:

My first one that, we'll, that I'll start tonight is either listening to a Headspace, a program, or they have these kind of, they're almost like adult bedtime stories. Um, oh no, sorry. That sounds, that sounds so weird. They're completely like G-rated. Oh my gosh. As in, I just, I just mean they're like, they're bedtime stories, but I mean, they could be for kids.

Phoebe:

Yeah. They

Anna:

They're bedtime

Phoebe:

they're, they're, um, they're

IMG_0592:

Um,

Anna:

They, um, what

Phoebe:

plotless descriptive.

Anna:

Very descriptive. Very

Phoebe:

boring. Very fluffy. Yeah.

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

The, the lavender field was, yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

so I think I'll try those. Or an audio book. the only thing with the head, I feel like the people's voices kind of annoy me because they It's so purposeful in trying to make you sleepy. Yeah. That it kind of, I'm just like,

Phoebe:

I Yeah. I have tried them for not Headspace, the calm

Anna:

one. Oh yeah. And

Phoebe:

And I was so annoyed at them. Yeah. I was like, where is the character development? Yeah. Yeah. Where is my, like, I wanted a

Anna:

an audio book might be nicer. Yeah. Um,

Phoebe:

just listen to an audio book that you've read bef like you've read it before and yeah, it's like comforting to

Anna:

The only thing that I've gotta work around with audio books just logistically that I'm thinking about is I only get 14 hours of audio books per month with Spotify.

Phoebe:

You know, something also you could try, is

Anna:

you

Phoebe:

get these sleep masks. That have, it noises in

Anna:

the ones, doesn't one of your brothers Yeah. Or your sister-in-law.

Phoebe:

feel like maybe both my brothers have them. Yeah. I don't know. I know that one of'em does. They, so they completely block out any light and they softly play, whatever you want. Yeah. And you can put it on a timer. Yeah. And

Anna:

oh, that would be good. Okay. Maybe I'll do

Phoebe:

because headphones very annoying. Get lost in

Anna:

bed Well, I would just, I would just play it out loud.

Phoebe:

How does Dave feel? Oh, he's not in bed yet.

Anna:

I've never asked him how he felt about it.

Phoebe:

God.

IMG_0592:

luck.

Phoebe:

You playing Headspace, you playing adult stories?

Anna:

I think he just falls asleep so quickly. I think it's

Phoebe:

just You play it out loud while he's sleeping. Yeah.

Anna:

On his side of the bed because he's the one that has the Headspace subscription.

Phoebe:

he plays them for you.

Anna:

God. He's good.

Phoebe:

He's good.

Anna:

Um, so yes, anyway, gonna start that consistently from tonight, the Headspace or audio book thing. And you tonight are gonna not eat so late.

Phoebe:

I'll do my best. Maybe it might be a tomorrow thing.

Anna:

Okay. and why is

Phoebe:

that? Well, I'm going over to Tom and El and Alise after this to visit them and have some dinner, which, who knows? We'll

Anna:

knows? Who knows? Maybe, maybe we do. Yeah,

Phoebe:

God, I need, no, maybe I need to bit more disciplined. I'll tell them I don't care that you have a brand new

Anna:

baby. I don't care that you have a two

Phoebe:

We're having dinner now. I.

Anna:

am looking after my

Phoebe:

Yeah,

Anna:

hygiene. I

Phoebe:

I'm really focusing on, I'm really focusing on optimizing the one percentage in my sleep right now.

Anna:

Can you imagine?

IMG_2280-1:

that

Phoebe:

I know. I'm sure they'll love it. Um, wait. Okay. That's your first one. What's your second experiment?

Anna:

yeah, sorry. and then I am going to do the no phone. Yeah. Yep. and then third, I'm gonna try the magnesium oil for

Phoebe:

Mm. Yeah, we, Anna and I were gifted some magnesium oil and you interesting enough, you spread on the bottom of your feet. Mm. And I tried it once out of curiosity'cause I just didn't really believe it was a thing. And

Anna:

you fell asleep halfway through the next foot.

IMG_2280-1:

I

Phoebe:

I, yeah, knocked me out. I was like, Anna, I got like, I got a crazy amount of deep sleep

Anna:

that night. Yeah, you did. That is so

Phoebe:

Um, and so I think we both got a bit excited about trialing that, so over the next couple weeks we. For our health diary segment, we're gonna be checking on these experiments. The cool thing about our AA rings, and I promise this is not an ad for AA rings, is that you can do experiments, you can go on the website, have you done this before? And you click a tag. So say you tag magnesium oil each night. You can then run analysis, like create, like is there a correlation between any two factors? So it could be literally, it could be you doing, audiobook and sleep latency, which is like how long

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

and it will tell you whether there is a significant difference in the, in that factor and when you use that. Yeah. So it's actually a really cool, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if, we'll, we could be enough data, but we'll see.

Anna:

Yeah. Yep, yep. Awesome. Alright, so let's for our final segment of the

Phoebe:

week, our favorite segment, wait, let me play it.

Anna:

Oh, what a shame. We can't play

Phoebe:

No, no, no. Oh yeah.

IMG_0592:

What off,

IMG_2280-1:

What off?

Anna:

Here

Phoebe:

go. Kicking steps. Nice and

Anna:

slow.

Phoebe:

Beautiful. So tell us, Anna, week 33, what was it like?

Anna:

Oh,

Phoebe:

what's it like to be 33 weeks pregnant?

Anna:

definitely feeling a little like I have a baby inside

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

I

Phoebe:

Wow.

Anna:

that I've been sighing and breathing a lot more, especially at work. I just do these, it's almost like I feel. It's like I've got a bit of indigestion

Phoebe:

or something.

Anna:

I just feel like I'm a bit more of a noisy

Phoebe:

gal. Yeah. Okay.

Anna:

Um, but no, week 33 has been treating me very

Phoebe:

well. Yeah.

Anna:

I am tired, but that's

Phoebe:

okay. Yeah.

Anna:

I also have, yeah, no, I nothing to complain about. For week 33, it's, um, gets a tick from

Phoebe:

me. We have been having discussions about running in third trimester. We actually both went back and listened to the episode that we did with, with

Anna:

Rachel

Phoebe:

Fit pelvic floor physio about running in

Anna:

Yeah. Well actually pop the link in our show notes because it was almost two years ago. but yeah, it

Phoebe:

a great episode.

Anna:

sorry. It's, it's, so, it's actually considering how early on in our. Podcast life. It actually was a pretty good

Phoebe:

it's actually a good episode. Yeah.

Anna:

editing, you can tell, wasn't done by our producer, Kiara.

IMG_2280-1:

tell.

Phoebe:

That must have, yeah,

Anna:

It was a home job. but yeah, we went back and listened to that, which was, yeah. Super interesting about the, talking about the, pressure that is pop. Put on your, popped on your like pelvic floor, which isn't just muscles, but as we were talking like, well, you and I were discussing off mic there, it's like also all of the connective tissue, blood vessels and everything. and yeah, like as I mentioned, my worst running related activity. I had lightning crutch. I just wanna say it again. It's such a funny word, such a funny name for something. Um, but I think at the moment, I mean I'm, this, I'm penciling it in because who knows? I'll probably change my mind. But I reckon, I think I'm done with running for the next. However long it takes for the baby to come out and then for me to recover. because I just, I just don't know if it's, it's not super comfortable, as you were saying before, how swimming's very relaxing and everything. I really feel like at the moment, swimming and cycling things that aren't, high impact, they're just more enjoyable. And the reason why, the main reason why. I run is because I really love it and I feel like that is decreasing at the moment. And then also just like little pains and niggles and things and I don't know, different sort of research and professionals say different things, but I just, I don't know if it's I'm, I think I'm kind of happy to just have a little bit of time

Phoebe:

off.

Anna:

Yeah. Focus on other things, and then hopefully be good to go postpartum. Yeah.

Phoebe:

how are you feeling about the prospect of having expansive time in front of you when you won't be running?

Anna:

Oh, I feel com I feel completely fine, but I mean, I am well versed in not running for a prolonged period of time, sorry to cut you off. I think you're about to say, I did think that it was coming to

Phoebe:

Yeah, exactly. A month

Anna:

a month or over

Phoebe:

more like that was like 27

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True actually. Yeah. So I mean, I feel in a way that this has been really lucky to get this like last little bit. but yeah, I, I, I reckon maybe it would be different if I didn't know what it felt like to not run phages, but even obviously the fertility journey, I wasn't running that much. And then I've been injured quite a few times and had sort of like months on end where I haven't run, so I feel like I'm kind of used

Phoebe:

to it. Yeah.

Anna:

Yeah, we'll see. My best friend next week will probably be a threshold session running.

Phoebe:

she's joined in

Anna:

I'll be like, God damn, I shouldn't have said that on

Phoebe:

Um,

Anna:

um, so

Phoebe:

Tell us about, we're doing a bit of not just a pregnancy update, but pregnancy upskilling. Mm. Tell us about, the upskilling for this week.

Anna:

Yeah. So actually second shout out to our, expert in sleep. For the episode, Liv Knowles, she talk about generally. Yeah. So she told us about this. Study that was done by Whoop the Brand and partnered with researchers at West Virginia University to continuously track heart rate variability and resting heart rate in active women before, during, and after pregnancy using wearable tech. Um, it's actually one of the first studies to use continuous data throughout the full pregnancy timeline. And for those who. have maybe forgotten. When did we, was it last season or the season before that

Phoebe:

were talking about

Anna:

wearables and,

Phoebe:

oh, that was, I can almost a year ago. Yeah, that

Anna:

Anyway, to refresh your.

Phoebe:

we'll link

Anna:

Memory. Yeah, we'll link it. Nice. heart rate variability measures the tiny natural fluctuations in time between consecutive heartbeat, and reflects your autonomic nervous systems balance between fight or flight and rest and digest. So it indicates stress levels, recovery and overall resilience. so yeah, they looked at that as well as your resting heart rate. it found that in early pregnancy, so shortly after conception, women's heart rate variability decreased and their resting heart rate increased compared to pre-pregnancy levels. and these trends continued throughout most of pregnancy. And we'll actually, we'll also link the article, in the show notes,'cause it's actually quite interesting looking at it on a graph. Like it's quite a

Phoebe:

Yeah. Increase. So basically your, yeah. Your resting heart rate is gradually going up, up, up. And your heart rate variability's going down, down,

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's kind of one of those things like pregnancy's hard, your body's working really

Phoebe:

hard,

Anna:

and for months, your cardiovascular system is compensating, blood volume is high, like recovery's limited. which makes sense that your resting heart rate is. Increasing, like over that time. but the, bit that we found super interesting is there's a shift in both heart rate variability and resting heart rate at.

Phoebe:

At

Anna:

Roughly seven weeks before all of these women that were in the study went into labor. Yeah. so the trends completely reversed. So heart rate variability began rising and resting heart rate began, began falling. Yeah. It has never been seen before in research. But again, this was like one of the first of its

Phoebe:

Yeah. Yeah.

Anna:

actually like, look at the data and from preconception to delivery. and, but it might help indicate for people like how close a pregnancy is to delivery. So it's around seven weeks where your body just, it kind of is, if it, it's like completely shifts gears, the nervous system becomes slightly more Restful leaning in a sense. And then the cardio,

Phoebe:

at this point right now, by the way? Pretty much. Hopefully.

Anna:

Hopefully.

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is quite frustrating.'cause I did only get the

Phoebe:

aing like,

Anna:

like, a few weeks ago, so

Phoebe:

you can't fully

Anna:

Yeah.

Phoebe:

Yeah. Because how, that's pretty cool that people could in theory know seven weeks before the like, be

Anna:

wild. Yeah. Yeah. And in saying that, it's not a dramatic overnight flip, like it's an inflection point that becomes

Phoebe:

noticeable. Yeah.

Anna:

over

Phoebe:

could kind of look back and be like, oh, that's when it

Anna:

when, Yeah. Yeah. Like a particularly, I reckon in a month or something you could be like, oh, okay, look, you can see Okay. When, seven weeks

Phoebe:

And you could kind of be like, oh, was it at 32 weeks or

Anna:

weeks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. which is just so crazy that there's.

IMG_2280-1:

And

Phoebe:

your body's like's like getting

Anna:

Yeah. It's so wild.

Phoebe:

That is so

Anna:

crazy. Mm.

Phoebe:

I also. I mean, this is cool data, but it has gotten me so excited thinking about. The opportunities of for research that could be done and like amazing, detailed, long-term, individual level data we can get on

Anna:

women.

Phoebe:

Mm. Because for so long, the, and Rachel spoke about this in Rachel Fit, the public floor physio, spoke about this in the episode. Like, it is so hard to do proper research on pregnant women, because you obviously can't really put people in a control group and a, Actual practice group. What, what would you call the actual group?

Anna:

treatment

Phoebe:

group. Treatment

Anna:

whatever. Yeah.

Phoebe:

be when it, there are ethics risks where if it's women making their own decisions about what they're doing and they can track kind of the tags or the lifestyle data alongside the biometrics, like what could we learn

Anna:

Well, exactly. It's sort of, yeah, it's the, world's your oyster kind of thing. and it is so cool'cause there's, you know, like wearing these devices, like it's not invasive at all. Yeah. A lot of them might have been wearing them anyway, but it'd be, it'd, it's so cool to think that, I don't know, there's just, it's so cool to think that you can, well, I mean even this is, what it sort of says is that like, it could actually tell you you're pregnant before. other tests can, like the urine test with the, Pick up the HCG hormone. Yeah. Which even that is

Phoebe:

Well, because it could see that you are.

Anna:

um,

Phoebe:

heart rate is going up.

Anna:

Yeah. Because it can see that your resting heart rate is done to increase and your,

Phoebe:

Yeah.

Anna:

heart rate variability's starting to decrease. Like obviously you're not gonna know that in, in, the first, in the Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe:

depends how early

Anna:

kind of cool that you can look back and be like, oh, well

Phoebe:

Yeah. Like I can see when that all started

Anna:

changing. Yeah. Yeah. Is that

Phoebe:

that is really crazy. Mm. Um, that is super

Anna:

interesting. Yes.

Phoebe:

I really enjoyed that

Anna:

episode. Yeah, it was interesting. I feel like we actually both link

Phoebe:

we actually both look, we did look quite a bit. Well look at us. Um, thank you so much to everyone who tuned in. Andrew has. Pin along with us on this journey in no matter what episode you joined, whether it was number one or number 99, we're very grateful to have you here. Or 100 here's Yeah. Or 100. Imagine the live shows. Your first crazy. Here's to the next 100. Woo hoo. Yay. Thanks

Anna:

so much, and we can't wait to be in your ears next

Phoebe:

Bye.

Anna:

Bye bye.

IMG_0592:

bye.

Phoebe:

I just press the red button, don't I? Yeah.

IMG_2280-1:

Oh, good job. Nice. Um, oh my God. I know I'm actually gonna make it.

Anna:

he's only 22. He's 25. No,

Phoebe:

no, Really?

Anna:

I looked this up and I was

Phoebe:

like, okay, well again, I'm, I,

Anna:

maybe he's 23. I need to confirm Now

Phoebe:

if he's 25.

Anna:

He's 22. Yes.

IMG_0592:

Yes.