Spencer Matthews: From “Bad Boy” To Breaking World Records as an Elite Athlete

This week on the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed welcomes TV Personality, Entrepreneur, and Endurance Athlete Spencer Matthews for a candid conversation about transformation, resilience, and pushing human limits. Spencer reflects on his early life, struggles with alcohol and fame, and the turning point that led him to prioritize health, discipline, and purpose. Through endurance challenges like running 30 marathons in 30 days and completing 7 Ironman competitions in 7 continents over 21 days, Matthews shares how consistency, mindset, and self-belief can unlock extraordinary performance. The episode blends personal storytelling with insights on recovery, training, and mental toughness, highlighting how intentional habits and perseverance can fundamentally reshape both body and life.

(01:31) Who Is Spencer Matthews?: From TV Personality to Endurance Athlete & Entrepreneur

(02:41) Growing Up Around Success

(03:49) Spencer’s Experience with Alcoholism and Embracing The “Bad Boy” Persona

(09:55) Making A Lifestyle Change: What Drove Spencer To Sobriety

(12:52) The Connection Between Addiction and Endurance Athletics

(20:02) From Couch to Ultra-Marathoner: Spencer’s Guide To Gaining Fitness

(25:00) The Mental Aspect of Running 30 Marathons in 30 Days 

(29:10) How The Body Adapts To Challenge (Key Recovery Insights)

(32:49) Mentally Preparing For An Ironman (Project 7)

(34:58) Managing A Negative Headspace

(46:17) Spencer’s Experience Using WHOOP 

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Transcript

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Spencer Matthews: [00:00:00] This is a really fun thing for me. I've never been to Boston, so I got to fly to Boston, uh, and uh, and experience Boston a bit. I've been wandering around. It's great. 

Will Ahmed: This is your first time in Boston Indeed. Obviously first time at Whoop hq. 

Spencer Matthews: Yes. 

Will Ahmed: What, what's the vibe for you in the office? 

Spencer Matthews: I think it's wonderful.

It's amazing. It reminds me a little bit of, um. Not to talk about another brand, but have you, have you been to the LinkedIn offices in Dublin? 

Will Ahmed: No, I 

Spencer Matthews: haven't. With a like sim, similar vibe, you know, great big awesome community gym, like lots of great food kicking around. Everyone clearly likes each other, you know, it's, uh, but no, this is wonderful.

It's amazing. The whoop sign is something else. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah, it's a good sign. It was part of the deal when we decided to take this space because no one wanted it. Believe it or not, it was 2020 and it was the dead of COVID, and this was a hole in the ground and restaurants across the street were going outta business and.

Essentially we were being told that we were gonna live on Zoom for the rest of our lives. Yeah. And I, that wasn't the future I wanted to live in. Uh, nor did I think it was right [00:01:00] for Whoop. So we, we committed to this office at a time when no one really wanted it. 

Spencer Matthews: Well, that's kind of turned out well. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah.

It's gone pretty well. Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: 25th mile of the marathon as well. And on the main street driving into 

Will Ahmed: Boston's. Right. Boston Marathon's kind of famous. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. Can't drive into Boston without seeing whoop now. 

Will Ahmed: That's right. 

Spencer Matthews: I'm told. Um. You know, word on the street. Literally, uh, the whoop is one of the biggest, uh, success stories to ever come outta Boston.

Will Ahmed: I suppose that's, that's in the conversation. Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: It's amazing. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. It's, congratulations. It's, it's been quite a journey. I mean, congratulations to you. What a life you've lived at a young age. We're almost, we're about the same age. If you were to kind of go back to being 10 or 15 years old, would you have anticipated that you'd become this big TV personality and, you know, go through periods of addiction and go through, you know, uh, this unbelievable endurance career you've had as an athlete and become an entrepreneur?

Like, did you have any sense of this? Sort of wild future in front of you. 

Spencer Matthews: Hard to predict the future, obviously at that age, I, I always [00:02:00] had confidence, uh, in my ability at that age. Uh, you know, the, the kind of issues and problems with that came later. So, you know, age 10 to 15. What was I doing? I was, I was looking up to my older brothers and, and people in my family really at that, at that time.

Um, I lost my brother Michael when I was 10. He was 22. He was the, the youngest Brit to climb Mount Everest, and unfortunately we lost him on, on his descent. Um, I 

Will Ahmed: read that. I'm so sorry about that. 

Spencer Matthews: Oh, it's, it's unbelievable. It's, it was a long, long time ago now, but, um, I'm just, I'm just trying to contextualize the answer because that, that, that was around that time in my life.

Um, and uh, that kind of shook the family a bit. But before that, uh, you know, to look at my two older brothers quickly, you know, Mike was an incredible person. Um, very successful in his own right. Um, was a, was a tremendous trader. In the city. Um, and my brother too was also quite successful and had been a professional racing driver and formula reno, world champion, same record as Alan [00:03:00] Prost and, you know, a, a British hopeful for Formula One.

And so I kind of grew up in a house with, um, you know, brothers who could. Do stuff, if you know what I mean. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. Like hyper alpha behavior it sounds like. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. 

Will Ahmed: Climbing Mount Everest and racing cars. 

Spencer Matthews: Exactly. And, and you know, my, my dad, uh, at that stage, my brother's, my brother James jokes about having a very different childhood to me.

My dad became quite successful and, you know, wealthy, if you will, later, like around the time that I was born. So James says that, you know, we had kind of different upbringing, um, but. I was around what some might call success, you know, during a lot of my childhood exposed to it quite a lot. So yeah, I, I did grow up with that kind of thought process that things are possible, that, you know, if you want to go and grab hold of stuff and do things you can, right, like world's your oyster vibe.

Um, developed a, a, a really bad relationship with alcohol in my, you know, slightly later teens. And that took, that went from being. You know, fun to [00:04:00] really problematic, uh, throughout my twenties. And I, I feel like I wasted a lot of time, you know, during that time became a television personality, a TV star if you 

Will Ahmed: will.

So you joined, uh, maiden Chelsea, age 23. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. 

Will Ahmed: You kind of get known as a little bit of a bad boy personality. 

Spencer Matthews: Indeed. Yeah. 

Will Ahmed: What was that period like for you? Was it a bit of a rush? 'cause all of a sudden you're going from being. Some people don't necessarily know to being recognizable. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. It was, yeah, it was exciting.

I think, I think if we're, if we're looking at fame as a driver, that was exciting to me at the time, you know, if we're being honest. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Fame was, was interesting to me, you know, and, uh, before that I wanted to be an actor and, you know, I, I went to USC, um, uh, film school and I'd spend a lot of time with. Uh, Brody Jenner and Spencer Pratt around the time that, uh, oh, 

Will Ahmed: interesting.

Spencer Matthews: Around the time that, uh, the hills was huge and they were being chased by paparazzi on motorcycles and being paid quite a lot to go to nightclubs and, you know, stuff that was fun. Anyway, and [00:05:00] that's kind of where the, uh, the rationale for. Maiden Chelsea, uh, felt fine. It's kind of like, well, if they're doing that, maybe there's money in this.

Maybe it could be useful. I wanted to use it as a stepping stone to, to do other things in TV and media. Uh, I don't think anyone was anticipating it being quite as popular as it was, you know, like I didn't actually think it would fly. 'cause it's like a bunch of affluent, you know, young people doing not much.

Right. And, uh, you know, we, we supposed to be inspiring and fun, but it was, uh. It was fine. Interesting, and, and, and worth doing, you know, until a certain point where things feel a bit structured and fake and, you know, you fall outta love with it. But in the early days it was really fun and yeah, it gave us.

Quite a big platform actually in the uk. You know, I think a lot of the things I now enjoy would've been harder to develop had I not done that show. I don't, I look back at the show and, you know, it's, it's a mixed response from me. I [00:06:00] don't love the show. You yourself just said that, you know, I had a bad boy reputation on it.

It's like we were trying to create drama for, for entertainment purposes, right? So it's kind of, 

Will Ahmed: well, personas get amplified, right? And they, they almost need to cast you as someone. And everyone needs to have a, like a clear identity. And 

Spencer Matthews: yeah, I think we knew that if it was not interesting and we were all Pali, and you know, it could be boring and it'd be canceled.

So, you know, you, you'd have, everything was elevated as, as you say, you know, relationships were elevated and rushed and, you know, lots of arguments were catalysts to stuff that may or may not really matter. And, you know, it kind of felt very fake to me past a certain point. And, um, it's, it was a strange time though, like the, the British public and its fan base, which was, which was big at the time.

Um. We're really invested in it. So, you know, these feelings that they might have towards your character on the show, even though it's a reality program, um, were pretty evident in like real life. I would always see real life as being quite a [00:07:00] separate thing to the show. Sure. Uh, even my relationship with certain people in the show was very different, you know, in real life to, on the show, uh, you know, we'd have.

Huge arguments. And then, you know, we'd stop rolling and give each other a high five and go to the pub and that was great. And they'd think it was a funny scene, you know, and, and, but that would be amplified in the press as like a serious problem. And of course it's not, you know? 

Will Ahmed: What was your relationship with alcohol during this period?

Spencer Matthews: Terrible. I'd drink every day. You know, uh, I'm glad that whoop wasn't around at the time, or it would've officially declared me dead. I think. Uh, no, I would've been in the red on a daily basis. I would drink. It was kind of all right though. 'cause you were, you were young, you were out there, it was on tv, you know, everything, everything felt like, um.

Like things were going well. Right? But when you look back at it with a, with a more nuanced and, um, perhaps well-rounded view, you don't own anything. You're not building [00:08:00] anything. You are just, you're just in. Something that is being consumed by people for their entertainment. It's not a serious thing. Like reality TV is great if you can take it and, and, and move it into benefit.

You, right? Do, do something for you or others, you know, but build a business around it, you know, use the platform. At the time I wasn't thinking that way at all. I was just enjoying my life. Everything was a hundred miles an hour. Um, I was drinking every single day, uh, you know, not getting any sleep at all, really out all the time.

Working in nightclubs as well. Um, and, uh, no, it became pretty, pretty problematic for my health. I remember her. I was, I was photographed in the street by a paparazzi, uh, one day when I was changing, uh, my clothes between like a, a take of one thing and, and moving to another scene. 'cause we would often just do, you know, different things like, like in a movie, I suppose, you know, it wasn't all real.

I, I would tell I would, I, I was changing and I was photographed in the street and I remember seeing the picture. [00:09:00] I'll get it over to you guys in case you wanna see it, but it was like, and I remember looking at myself going like, oh my goodness. I've, like, I've really like, I'm an unhealthy person, right? I looked like dead behind the eyes gray, desperately overweight for me.

Like, I was probably, I was probably knocking on like a hundred kilos, which for me at five 10 is, is, well, you know, I was pretty heavy for, for where I like to be. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Uh, and it's almost like it kind of crept up on me. Like, I didn't even notice. Like you're just, you're out all night, you're eating terrible food.

You're not training, you're not looking after yourself. You're not looking after your mental health or your, or your physical wellbeing. Um, you know, and, and. And, and it kind of compounds, and then all of a sudden I see this picture and I was like, wow. Like I had, I actually didn't realize I looked like that, you know?

Which sounds crazy. Yeah. But like, you know, it, it just didn't, it, it hit me in a kind of strange way. And I can remember thinking this, this life that I'm living is not healthy. 

Will Ahmed: What was the moment or period that. Forced you to get [00:10:00] sober? 

Spencer Matthews: Well, I'm not sober, just in passing. I was sober for about three years.

So when Yeah. But 

Will Ahmed: during that 

Spencer Matthews: period, yeah. When it was, uh, it, it got, it got really quite bad. I met, uh, my now wife. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Uh, around a time where, you know, I was, I was drinking very heavily, partying a lot. Um, and we. We weren't really looking for each other at the time. We did a TV show. Sure. Uh, and, and you know, we knew we'd be very close friends.

Like we had a, we had a really great bond very early on. Day one. Day one. I actually told her that we'd get married. Um, I was kind of just, you know, just take, taking the piss at the time. Um, but obviously, you know. And that ended up actually happening. Um, but you know, she, she started to have quite a profound impact on me.

Like I realized, I realized that I would lose her if I carried on behaving the way that I was behaving and drinking. And, you know, she was, uh, she was a kind of rising star and making all these interesting documentaries and doing really cool things and traveling the world and doing, and I was like at home.

Drunk. Right? [00:11:00] Like not, and I was just like, this, this, this is a mismatch, right? She's just gonna, she's gonna wake up one day and just, you know, think that she, uh, should move on and she would've been very right to, so. I dunno. I had a shocking evening one night. I just, I, I drank, you know, a whole bottle of whiskey or something.

A friend of mine came over, put me to bed and, uh, I remember it just being really embarrassing. Like, he, he came round and literally looked at me, put it, put my arm around him, like, walked me to my bedroom, like lay me down, and then just walked out and I was like. What, like, I thought he'd coming around to like spend some time with me type thing.

So like there was a, a huge sense of shame right towards the end of this drink, I'd, I'd lost control. And I think that's a really interesting point. It's like drinking alcohol, not a problem. A lot of people have their own relationship with alcohol. I'm certainly not anti-alcohol, but I think too much of, of anything is, is bad.

Right? And I, I, I had lost control of my ability to. To drink, you know, normally. And then I wanted to change for her initially. I, you know, I, I woke up the following day. I signed up to the marathon to sub, uh, as [00:12:00] punishment. That was my first ever ultra. Uh, and, and just, I, I, I didn't, I didn't touch a drop for three years and, uh, and my whole life changed.

It's then that I became an entrepreneur, started to think, clearly, started to prioritize health and wellbeing. Like my, my whole life completely changed in that time. 

Will Ahmed: I mean, did you know that you always had that. Energy resource inside of you? Or was it just gonna be a test like you are gonna channel, you know, an addictive personality that was pointed towards like a bit of a party lifestyle to an addictive par person that's, you know, 

Spencer Matthews: yeah.

Will Ahmed: An amazing athlete. 

Spencer Matthews: I think addicts make extraordinary. Endurance athletes. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: I know a lot of addicts or ex addicts who can run for days. You know, 

Will Ahmed: I've had Rich Roll on this podcast. Yeah. He talks about it. 

Spencer Matthews: I love him. Uh, I think, I think it's a really interesting analogy and, and I think the similarity and the symmetry between those two things is interesting.

Um, there's a [00:13:00] competitiveness. Addicts. Right. I think the, you know, regardless of whether it's being channeled into the correct things or not right, is, is, is inherent right. A lot of people who love drinking and love partying are, are, are quite competitive people. Um, you know, whether they have control over what they're doing.

It is a separate point entirely, but. Yeah, I've always been competitive. I always knew I can do things. Um, I didn't realize quite the extent of it until I started to be inspired by other athletes. So you mentioned Rich. Um, I've looked, I've read Rich's book. Um, I was very inspired by Russ Cook. I don't know who you know, if that is, he, he's, he was the, uh, the hardest geezer, the, the ginger guy that ran across Africa.

Will Ahmed: Oh wow. Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Um, and he was like, he's not a runner really? He is now. Yeah. But he wasn't really then, and like he kind of just started in South Africa, filmed the whole thing. He was running 50 KA day and he, he ran across the whole of Africa. And around that time I was thinking. Like that's, that's an extraordinary feat of human [00:14:00] endurance.

Right? And he has a similar ish, not, not the same, but similar ish background to me in with the, you know, alk alcoholism and the, and the, and the gambling in his case. And I thought, you know, I wonder what, um, what my limits are. 'cause at that time that I came across him, I, I'd, I'd done a couple of ultras, right?

I'd done the, I'd done the Marathon sar. I came 88th out of like 700 people. Out of nowhere. Right? Like I got faster as the days went on. 

And 

Will Ahmed: that was your first, 

Spencer Matthews: first ever Yeah, I'd, I'd ran the odd marathon before that, but slowly and without data and without timing. Sure. And, you know, the odd sub four type thing.

But, but you know, I'd come off those with, you know, what felt like broken knees and, you know, I, I wasn't a runner basically, you know, I, I hadn't ever focused on running and, um, went and did the marathon dab, which is. An incredible race. And if, you know, if anyone's listening to this and they want to just have a, have a test of their comfort zone and push themselves somewhere, consider signing up to that.

You don't need to be an extraordinary runner. Lots of [00:15:00] people walk it. Um, the cutoff for time is the camel at the back, right? So there's a camel that walks the whole. Uh, track and anyone that has ever come across the camel, brave camel yeah. Knows that camels are, they're very slow, right? So, you know, you're, you're not gonna be overtaken by the camel.

So that, that isn't really a cutoff. I mean, as I say, there is, but there isn't. You know, you're, you're not gonna, you're not gonna hit it. It's an extraordinary race. You know, you're alone with your thoughts a fair amount. It's quite, there's some camaraderie as well. You sleep kind of rough in these beaver wax and you carry everything on you for the whole six days on in your backpack.

And 

Will Ahmed: how far are you going? 

Spencer Matthews: About 250 kilometers. 

Will Ahmed: Wow. 

Spencer Matthews: Over five days through the desert, you know, piping heart and, but it's, it's a real, you know, it's quite a cathartic, interesting. Thing to do. 

Will Ahmed: Mm. 

Spencer Matthews: Um, and you know, if you're able to do it, you should absolutely do it. Just go and do it. Loads of people are there, uh, and it, and it's fun.

You know, you will, you will do it. And, and I loved it. I did pretty well in it and, uh, loved it. Signed up to a few more. And then I was looking for something else to do and I came across Russ and I thought, [00:16:00] well, if you can do that, I wonder how many back-to-back marathons I could run. And, uh. Long story short, got in touch with Guinness World Records because I had a friend who had done some stuff with them and, and, um, you know, they worked to one week or one month, uh, they don't do anything in between.

So, and seven marathons in seven days was not a record. 30 marathons in 30 days was not a record either, but 30 marathons in 30 days in a desert, all on sand would've been a world record. Uh, and so I started to build it around that and that's how we ended up in Jordan. And I did those, uh, I did 30 consecutive desert marathons, uh, over 30 days with an incredible team that we then used for project seven.

Uh, that was, that was probably the biggest shift in my life to date, like achieving that. 'cause it really helped me to understand that humans are capable of really extraordinary things, right? If you, if you take me. Even 10 years ago, [00:17:00] like it's really difficult to explain the difference. I mean, rich does a very good job of explaining it 'cause it's not dissimilar to him.

Right. He, he would talk about how he walk. He, he was walking upstairs and he'd be outta breath and, you know, sweating profusely. Similar for me, I, I lived, I lived one, one story up. I'd jog up the stairs and I'd be like, sweating patches like, you know, heavy breathing. Couldn't run 5K very well. Like if I ran.

Like a 25 minute five KI, I would've been in pain, you know, like just, I'm not a runner. Right? So it's kind of to get to then completing 30 desert marathons, 30 days, and it, it was really just. A matter of putting in the work, but also really deeply believing that you can do it. And I think so many people trip themselves up with just the, the thought and the blockage from, from believing they can't do things that, you know, I, I hear it every day.

I could never run a marathon. That's nonsense. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Every, everyone. Can run a marathon. You don't have to run a fast marathon, you can just [00:18:00] cover the distance. And then if you wanna do another one, try and cover it a little faster. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: You know, it's baby steps. You as an entrepreneur will know that things don't happen quickly.

I was just walking around your office looking at your Bobo. 

Will Ahmed: Oh yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Uh, you know, the, the very first in 2012. 

Will Ahmed: I mean, it was a box like this big with a cord that came out of it and it connected to a computer and it's got this hideous Velcro strap. That, but yes, I mean, everything takes, um, takes time. 

Spencer Matthews: Like you walk into whoop offices in Boston, huge whoop sign that you can see from miles away, you know, I dunno how many employees you have, but it's an incredibly impressive thing.

But, you know, then you look at the Bobo. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Right. And it would been the early prototype and it would've been just you and, and. And it's just interesting, right? Everything's a journey. And that's the same with with with sports, right? You've interviewed some of the world's, uh, best athletes, you know, none of them became who they were when you talked to them quickly.

Right? And it's, it's, even, it is, there's even more margin for ordinary people. [00:19:00] 

Will Ahmed: Well, your story's super inspiring and, and I think there's people listening to this who are like. I can't even comprehend how I would run 30 marathons in 30 days in like a desert environment. This guy's just in a different stratosphere than me.

But at the same time, you're talking about a period of your life where you had trouble getting off the couch because of, you know, drinking habits or, you know, going up the stairs, you're out of breath. So clearly you weren't like, you know, some freak of nature the whole time. And there's like, the question is.

What are the, what is the first like 30 days, forget, you know, 30 days, 30 marathons. Like the first 30 days of going from the guy who has trouble getting off the couch, you know, to, to eventually becoming where you are today. Like what is the starting point? 

Spencer Matthews: It's, it's, it's a boring answer. Right. And it's a tale as old as time, but it's just consistency.

Yeah. Right. Like looking for quick wins and shortcuts gets you nowhere. Right. And it's, it's a real conscious effort to try and behave in a [00:20:00] way that, you know. Is good. And that will eventually lead to, to progress. 

Will Ahmed: So would you just start, you just started by trying to run any distance? 

Spencer Matthews: Sure. Yeah. I just, I, I started by running full stop.

I, I, it would be, I, I would go for a run and two kilometers in my knee would start to hurt. Right. Just because I'm not a runner. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Uh, well I wasn't a runner, but it's, it's, you know, like if we're looking to break it down into what I believe to be really healthy, I think periods of abstinence from alcohol are really helpful for me.

Right. I, I can't speak for, for everyone, but. If we take my drinking now as, as, as a, as an example, I haven't had an alcoholic drink since December 25th of last year. So it's a good, good couple of months of Yeah. Of clean living. That even, you know, to me makes, makes a monster difference. I, I think completely, clearly, 

Will Ahmed: whoop would support that.

Spencer Matthews: Whoop, I hope we have my data to hand right. My whoop data currently is, is, uh, is, is glorious, right? Oh, greens. Yeah. It's beautiful. And, um, and I love it. And whoop, whoop plays a big part in how I. Train and, and think about [00:21:00] recovery and sleep and strain. I love strain would be my most exciting thing about whoop.

I love, I love strain, um, but I don't know, look, lifting weights, I think getting fresh air, getting out of the house, whether it be walking, jogging, running, uh, you know, abstaining from. Uh, you know, really junky food and alcohol and cigarettes obviously, uh, is, is, is helpful. You know, it's all things that, to be honest, is, isn't uh, won't be the first time anyone's heard this, right?

It is none there, there is no substitute for just slowly and surely doing the right thing. It's that motivation versus discipline question. You know, I am not motivated every day. You know, I, I think if you look at some of my recent achievements in, in, um, endurance, you know, you would say, God, this guy must like, have no life.

He must train all the time. You know, and that's, that's not, that's not accurate. It's, you get to a certain place and then you kind of maintain it. But in order to get, you [00:22:00] know, somewhere where you're proud of, and I think pride plays a big role in it as well. If you consistently just, just do the difficult thing.

Whether that be just going to the gym in the morning, having that ice bath, having the cold shower, you know, eating nice and clean. You, you will begin to feel proud of yourself. And I think pride plays a huge part in this. You know, it is, particularly for me, coming from big portions of my life where I felt really ashamed of myself.

You know, where like you've woken up late and you look in the mirror and you go, God, like when you think about. Awesome. My brothers are, or how successful my, my dad is totally like, what the hell am I doing right? What am I looking at here? Like, some loser who's getting out of bed at 10 with no nothing to do all day, but go to the pub when it opens and spending time with all the wrong people and, and, and you know, you know what you're doing is wrong.

Flip that into doing the right thing. So getting up at, you know, seven or, you know, six 30, getting outside, getting some fresh air, getting yourself into the gym. You know, all, you know, if you, if you can't afford a gym membership, you know, get some pushups in some sit ups, just. Do stuff that that is, you know, difficult and drives you forward with, with, with momentum.

And [00:23:00] then things gen generally become easier, right? Like the more you do something, the easier it becomes. You know, like I wasn't a very gifted and still am not a very gifted tennis player, but if you play tennis like four times a week. You're gonna get better at tennis, and all of a sudden you're gonna be able to hit the ball properly.

I've 

Will Ahmed: seen you on a paddle court. Yeah. You can work a, you can work a racket. 

Spencer Matthews: It's just, it's more, it's more like juujitsu would be a better, would be a better analogy. Sure. Like the more time you spend on the mat, the more time you give to the sport, the more you are rewarded with skill and the more you are able to to perform.

Right? Like if you, if you turn up to the dojo every morning, five times a week in three years, you're gonna be a complete killer. You know, you'll have. Skills that will set you up for life in, in that, you know, a after three years, it's actually a very small price to pay. When you look at life generally, you know, like it doesn't take that long of you giving yourself to something to, to have that skill.

Unfortunately, I'm, I'm a pretty curious person, right? I've always loved clearly the idea of learning skills, [00:24:00] getting better at stuff. You know, the things that I find most fascinating in life are the things I know nothing about. 

Will Ahmed: I mean, one big observation just from this conversation is, is discipline. Like it feels to me like you were someone who could flip a switch and say, okay, all of a sudden this is my new path and I'm gonna wake up every day and I'm gonna follow this path and I'm gonna see where it takes me.

And that's taken you pretty far. I mean, it's unbelievable the athletic achievements that you've had. I'm trying to picture. What, you know, day 17 or you know, day 13 Yeah. Of, of running 30 marathons in a row is like, 'cause it's like, okay, at that point you've suffered a lot. But you're not anywhere done. You know?

Yeah. You know, you've got more in front of you than behind you, so to speak. Like, what, what is your mindset during something like that? 

Spencer Matthews: It's kind of a big mental game, isn't it? Uh, huge, right? You, you, you know, you know that you're in it and, and, you know, almost violently ticking off day by day is obviously not the way to do it because, you know, um, [00:25:00] you know, you, you get through what's in front of you at the time.

I, you know, I wore different shorts every five days. You know, like, like a, like a, like I had these little white shorts that I would wear to mark, you know, five, that, 5, 10, 15, 20. So kind of, you knew you were kind of taking on a bit, but also there was, um, so for the 30 marathons as an example, I'd love to chat to you about project seven if we have time, but let's, the 30 marathons was.

Just so cool, right? Like, so we, when I do these events, I raise money for the event through brands, right? So I'll go to brands and I'll say, look, we're, you know, we think we can offer this level of exposure through social media. Uh, be delighted to wear your staff or what, whatever, you know, normal brand deals.

And so we get the, the event itself. Cordoned off, and then we attach, um, a charity to the event and we raise a completely separate fundraise, uh, also through brands, but also just, you know, the general public to support that particular charity. That one was for Globals Make some Noise, and we ended up raising [00:26:00] 623,000 pounds for children mostly who are going through difficult things.

That makes it quite easy to conceptualize the kind of pain that you're in. Like, you know, I went and visited the charities before, um, you know, they support about a hundred causes. And, uh, you know, just, it's, it's, it's easy when you see, um. Things that really aren't fair happening to, you know, young men, women, families, uh, uh, you know, children with cancer, you know, sorry, not to get morbid, but 

Will Ahmed: yeah.

Spencer Matthews: You know, you, it, the pain that you are going through is, is clearly, you know, a temporary thing. And if you're able to help these people with far more, um, you know, urgent issues than than yourself, then it does make it easier through the difficult times. Also, let's not forget, right, with running 30 marathons through Jordan, uh, the Jordanian Desert, the Wadi Rum Desert.

It's, it's extraordinarily like picturesque and beautiful, like the sunrises, the sunset. It's all incredible. You've got the red hot chili, peppers, blasting camps, moving every day. Food's nice. The people are cool. It's comradery. [00:27:00] Uh, I never know if it's comradery or camaraderie, whatever. You know what I mean?

And the experience is, is one of immense privilege, right? As well. Like it's, it's not available to everyone. It took a while to organize these things. Take months and months of prep. And it, and it's kind of net net it's for the greater good. Right? We, we helped 50,000 families Amazing. Through that. I also, 

Will Ahmed: you raised over half a million dollars, I think, right?

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. I also, I, I also, I also found out a lot about myself, so of course it's, for me, I'm not pretending it's just for charity. Like it's for me, I want to do it. I love these things, but you know, it wouldn't be worth it I don't think, if there wasn't that. You know, other probably greater purpose behind it.

You know, Chris Taylor, who organized the whole thing is, is just a, a legend, a tremendous athlete. You know, we, we would listen to, we'd lie in the, in the sand at night with the sun setting, listening to incredible albums and, you know, eating hummus every day. And it's, it's like, it's, it's an experience that I'll never forget.

Right. Of course. So it's easy to look at [00:28:00] these things as, God, that must be painful. That must be really difficult. But it's also. Incredibly beautiful and, and something that I would do again, you know, like I would love to do that again. It was, it was, uh, one of the best times of my life, but also just the greater thought process behind it of this.

I can't believe this is happening. Uh, and you know, when you start to find a rhythm. And your body begins to adapt to the sa like I, I chucked off 12 kilos of like muscle and, and fab. I bet. Yeah. I was like, but then you start to move through the sand easier. The later marathon is probably easier than the earlier ones.

Right? Because you, you begin to just, I think the, the mind and the body not to get. Too deep on biology. 'cause I'm, I'm certainly not that guy, but it's incredible how the human mind and body can respond to things, right? In the simplest sense, obviously you go to the gym every day, you lift heavy weights, you're gonna gain muscle, you'll get bigger.

Providing your diet and recovery is on point, but also as a survival mechanism. [00:29:00] It's, it's amazing how fast your body will adapt to scenarios that you're in. I was on Everest for five weeks making a film about my late brother trying to find his body with Nims Persia, who you've probably spoken to from 14 Peaks, and we, we made a film called Finding Michael for Disney.

Up there. The air is so thin, the carrying around muscle is pointless. So your body understands that and it just gets rid of it. Like everyone, it's not wild. Everyone that was there for five weeks didn't, we didn't do anything. We were sat at base camera. We didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't climb. I, I didn't climb.

My mother would've been. Just like beside herself, if I'd gone through the Kubu, Icefall or anything, looking for Mike, 'cause obviously he is dead and she doesn't wanna lose another child. 

Will Ahmed: Right. 

Spencer Matthews: Um, but like your, my body literally just disposed of muscle. Just said, this is pointless up here. You don't need it.

It's gone. Boom. I lost a stone. Right. Just sitting around eating all. So it, it is incredible. And same thing in the desert. You know, my body just went, you don't need these shoulders. Right? [00:30:00] Gone. Let's get rid of them. 

Will Ahmed: What, what led to project seven? 

Spencer Matthews: Just as I say, life changed in the, in the, in the desert came out, you know, with, with an even greater sense of exploration and wanting to push limits and boundaries and you know, that's when you've very kindly been a guest on my podcast Untapped, which is all about kind of human limits and potential and.

And, you know, achieving extraordinary things. No, I think, I personally have always thought for a long time that the hardest day in sports is an Ironman. I've never done one before, or I had never done one before. And, uh, my brother again, James has, and he's ran countless marathons. I, you know, I've, I've followed a fair amount in James' Path and I, I think he's an incredible person.

And so I kind of knew that I wanted to do an Iron Man, and around that time I was invited to do. A marathon in each continent in seven days. So seven marathons in seven continents, uh, in seven days, which is possible obviously because the marathon is, you know, not particularly time consuming so you can get the travel in as well.

And, uh, and I just thought, oh, wouldn't it be [00:31:00] interesting to look at a full Ironman in every continent in as shorter timeframe as possible? Scott Googling and um, Connor Eny, a guy, uh, who lives just north from here, actually he's Canadian, is the only person in history to have ever done that. Right. And an Iron Man, full Iron man in every continent.

And he did it in just under four years. I think He was interrupted by COVID and Connor's a tremendous athlete, so, you know, could, could obviously do it faster, but I'm not sure he was racing anyone. It was more just, uh, want, he wanted to be the first and I thought. Uh, you know, what's the absolute fastest we could do this?

And, uh, got a chatting to Chris and we felt that 21 days was about as fast as anyone. Could do that, including of, of course, the travel. You know, there's, we went from, uh, London to Arizona, Cape Town, Perth, Dubai, Rio, Antarctica, um, which is obviously a big kind of, you know, figure of eight around the world.

We tried to limit. [00:32:00] The, uh, flying east to west as much as possible. Uh, sorry. We tried to limit the flying west to east as much as possible 'cause you're gaining time and it's eating into your recovery, you know, twice as much basically. And we started having fun with it, started thinking about it in February and we were doing it in, in November.

Will Ahmed: I guess at that point you. You felt your body was ready. I mean, I guess you never questioned that. You were kinda like, gimme the dates and I'll be there. 

Spencer Matthews: I see all these things as, as a as, as a real mental challenge. Obviously there's a lot of physicality to it. The fact that I had never done an Ironman was.

Troubling me a little bit in the days leading up to the first one because, you know, there's, there's always that, there's, there's always that, that's 

Will Ahmed: a great attitude. 

Spencer Matthews: There's always that, like, what happens if I love it? I just can't do it. Right. It's kind of that, that's the issue. I knew I was very physically fit.

I knew I could run really fast and I, you know, I knew that I could keep. You know, even a threshold, I can keep a relatively low heart rate for, you [00:33:00] know, several hours. And so I, I knew there's a, a good bank of fitness there. Um, hadn't spent any time swimming really. I, I, in the lead up to it, I of course did some swimming.

You know, we went on holiday to Spain for a bit and I swam 4K most days for, you know, for a couple of weeks type thing just to. To see how it went. But even after the very first swim, I was like, okay, this is fine. Like you can kind of know, you can manage it, you can, you can 

Will Ahmed: float your way through it. 

Spencer Matthews: I don't need, yeah, exactly.

I, yeah. Where's the current? I, uh, no, I, I don't, I don't have to be an extraordinary swimmer or an amazing cyclist. I don't think, to pull this off, I need to be able to sustain awfully long periods of time, you know, throughout the day, uh, in potentially some negative headspace, which I'm really good at. It is kind of how I saw it.

Um, 

Will Ahmed: how do you manage negative headspace? 

Spencer Matthews: Rationalize it, I suppose. Um, I'll give you an example of kind of the worst possible headspace that I've ever been in, and that was during project seven, the easily the most. Life threatening and worst [00:34:00] parts about it. Uh, came to me in Cape Town, Antarctica had all kinds of issues as well, but Antarctica's like incredible, but, but Cape Town 

Will Ahmed: and that was kind of at the midpoint.

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. Cape Town was the third. Yeah. And so did London, which was okay. Pretty rough. Like, you know, the weather was shocking and it is like, you, you know where you are. It's hometown. Yeah. So it's kind of, it's actually not an advantage because you, you know, just how long, like the thing is, 'cause like you're in Hyde Park and, you know, you've got 18 laps or whatever it is.

Just like, I, I can't believe I've gotta run 18 laps of high park. Having done that, you know, cycle. We, we cycled around a one kilometer loop in, uh, in this park in 180 times. Anyway, so, so like, you know, that it was, it was a bit of a, uh, it messed with my mind a bit. That one got to Arizona, did the official Ironman event.

Long story short, got to the end of that. It must have been 10:00 PM 'cause you know, you start, start at nine or, or whatever it was, finished at around 10, you know, pick up your bag, get back to the hotel. It's [00:35:00] 10 45. Had a quick bite to eat, got to bed at maybe midnight, left the hotel at, uh. Four in the morning, I think, to go to Cape Town, two flights to get there.

So like a change, sleeping on the floor in the airport, obviously just on two Ironman, then arrive in Cape Town, I think it was 10:00 PM in Cape Town time. And then at 5:00 AM I'm in the water again. So like there's no, 

Will Ahmed: so you weren't taking any breaks, 

Spencer Matthews: there's no rest, right? Yeah, so these two in particular, so Arizona, Cape Town, Perth was, you're flying the wrong way and so there's no time to rest at all.

You get a little bit of hotel time, but not really like, you know, three, four hours type thing. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: Um. And by the time you get there, you're just exhausted. So anyway, 

Will Ahmed: I can feel like achy just from listening to this. Yeah. I arri 

Spencer Matthews: arrive at the beach in Cape Town and it's freezing. And when I say freezing it's like, it's, it's really unpleasant, right?

I'm in my wetsuit normally or what my experience of this stuff, when you're in your wetsuit fully zipped up, you're quite hot. Like you're actually looking forward to getting into the water. 'cause it's, it's quite a, it's quite a thing to be wearing. I get down to the [00:36:00] beach, it's freezing cold and like, and pitch black.

It's 4 45 in the morning. Everyone's asleep. Dark, dark, dark, dark. You just hear the water a bit, uh, and it's cold, like cold, cold, cold. To the point where you know that like if you jump in the water, you're gonna feel freezing. And I hate, you know, with both fans of ice baths, I, I, you know, when you spend too long in an ice bath and you get out and it goes wrong, I could just feel that already, right?

Like, I, like I had that kind of, I didn't have any internal warmth going into this thing. Everything fell off. I'd had a conversation in the car with the guy driving us there talking about, uh, rabid seals. He said, you shouldn't worry about the white sharks. You should worry about the rabid seals. And I was like, seals with, with rabies?

And he was like, yeah, so there's an outbreak of rabies. The seals are attacking people. And I was like, 

Will Ahmed: great, we'll add that 

Spencer Matthews: time. I literally said like, I, I, I don't know why you would tell me that. Yeah. It's not like, like it's an incredibly irritating thing to hear. Right? Yeah. Like, and, and I wasn't happy at all about that actually.

This is the closest I've ever felt to death. Basically, I jumped in the water. I knew things were wrong straight away. [00:37:00] Can't even see your, your, your watches. Uh, freezing, freezing, like it was, the water was seven degrees. Um, I don't do Fahrenheit, so maybe convert it, but 

Will Ahmed: yeah, 

Spencer Matthews: that's cold. Very cold, right?

Like a cold water swim is around. This temperature started having these kind of feelings of panic. And I don't really feel much like I, I, I'm a, I've just made a film about psychopathy, um, like the, the psychopathic mindset, uh, and interviewed a bunch of psychopaths and had a psychopath test done on myself.

The film comes out soon, so I won't spoil anything, but I don't really feel things like a normal person. Like I don't, I don't feel much fear or anxiety or, or like, I'm, I'm quite a. Things are just quite clear and logical to, to me, like this is the right thing to do. That's the wrong thing. Cool. You know, I, I don't, I don't have a lot of 

Will Ahmed: internal debate, 

Spencer Matthews: internal debate or process emotions particularly well, right?

Yeah. Um, dove in the water had a big problem right straight away, uh, and [00:38:00] like, felt very panicky, which is incredibly unusual for me, like completely foreign feeling. And, uh, kept swimming and, and just, you know, kind of got over that initial thing, but you just feel so exposed, right? You're in this pitch, black water, it's freezing and like you just feel like any second now, something, you know, horrendous is gonna happen.

Uh, and then, uh, anyway, lost, lost sensation in both arms, both legs. Couldn't speak, uh, like, like, couldn't swim basically at all. And I'm kind of floating around with about, at this stage, I had about a kilometer left to go. Seals were in the water, kind of like jumping over me. We filmed the whole thing. We got a film coming out.

It's, but it's like, it felt like a really amazing. 

Will Ahmed: It 

Spencer Matthews: felt like a, like a really dramatic moment. Right. And, uh, and to answer your question, how do you get through like, so rationalizing It is really helpful and I, I, I flipped over onto my back. I just thought, okay, it's seven degrees, not zero degrees. Even if I feel early onset hypothermia and I get out, I will be able to save it with [00:39:00] heat, right?

I'm not gonna be like straight to hospital. 'cause like I'm technically speaking, you know, I, I, I can easily survive this. There hasn't been a great white, you know, shark attack here in, in 50 years. So why would they be on this morning if these seals were rabid? You know, they, they would've bitten me by now.

I just need to swim one kilometer. It's not 3.8. You know, so all, all of these things and you process them and then like, you know, got, got out and couldn't speak. And there's a big scene in the film where it's like, touch and go as to whether or not we're gonna carry on. But I don't know. There was a few moments like that throughout the course of project seven.

Uh. But I don't know, just again, you know, it comes back to life experience and, and you know, I, I, I, I, I, it was, it was awesome. 

Will Ahmed: So it sounds like you have a natural disposition to not being phased, so to speak, but then it also seems like you do have some internal dialogue that's around, you know, it's not gonna be that bad, or there's there.

I can push it all the way up to this line. [00:40:00] You know? I mean, even just, even if I have hypothermia, like I'll be able to warm myself up or I can't be full hypothermia, you know? Yeah. Like, just hearing that dialogue is, is fascinating. 

Spencer Matthews: I think the more you lose, the more you lose your ability to think clearly, and the more you let panic seep in, the less you're gonna be able to help yourself.

I 

Will Ahmed: think that's entirely true. I think that a lot of people, there's a lot of people I think don't feel like they can control that anxiety, and so the idea of having certain. Tools or inner dialogue that can shift that conversation from being, I'm getting outta the water and this event's over to, I'm gonna be lying on my back in the water for a minute here.

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. 

Will Ahmed: I'm gonna process how badly this could really go, but I'm gonna carry on. I mean, that, that's like, you know, that's a huge fork. 

Spencer Matthews: There's more to it as well, and it's, it's quite a difficult thing to explain, but. Since my brother died and almost and since, since the marathon Asab and the experience I was telling you about, um, it almost feels like, [00:41:00] I dunno how to say this without sounding kind of.

Like it's my world, right? But like I think about things sometimes about things being your time and things that you're doing and the reality of what death would actually be, right? And am I gonna get taken by a shark here and die time? I never like, or not, you know? And in reality I'm sure that's not the case, right?

Yeah. You know, you'd have to be quite unlucky and you know, that's not to say that I won't ever die in some freak accident, but Project seven really felt. Full of purpose and drive and it, it certainly didn't feel like my time to go. And I'm not a hugely religious person, but, um, I, I would call myself spiritual perhaps.

You know, I love this thing called thin space. Um, I did a show about. Pilgrimage and, uh, and I learned about thin space from this incredible, uh, priest and, and she told me that thin space is this kind of moment between heaven and earth [00:42:00] that, you know, some people can experience from time to time, and it's not even, it's not, it's attainable to everyone.

It could be just a beautiful sunset, a lovely view, a gust of winds, you know, on the back of your neck that reminds you of someone you've lost or. Or something that feels a little bit supernatural. These events are full of moments like that, right? Where you just feel so done, like you're just done, but somehow you run a marathon 

Will Ahmed: afterwards.

Spencer Matthews: Like when I go. Yeah, that's, 

Will Ahmed: it's probably easier to access that than space. Space when you're depleted a little too. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah, exactly. The cycle in Antarctica. And we, we won't touch on the swim, 'cause I just spoke about the swim in Cape Town, but the swim in Antarctica was just like a horrendous as well, right?

Zero degrees, awful. The bike took nearly 19 hours. It was on a mountain bike, on a rough road, 200 meters out, 200 meters back. Holes in the road everywhere. Ice everywhere. 11 kilometers an hour. A little 

Will Ahmed: sketchy probably. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah, 11, 11 kilometers an hour. I averaged on the bike just, oh my God. Slow, slow, slow.

Listening to like Taylor Swift, uh, like, just like [00:43:00] thumpy, like pop songs. Just to like 

Will Ahmed: something playful that 

Spencer Matthews: you Yeah, exactly. Something just to lighten the mood. Uh, and when I got off that bike, I literally, uh. Having just done the swim, which was incredibly, like the level of cortisol coursing through my system during that swim would've been a joke.

Right? Just so much stress I'd feared about that. Swim for like nearly, for nine months. I'd been so worried about leopard seals and zero degree water and freezing and only being the third person ever to have attempted something like that and blah, blah, blah, you know? And it, and, and that came out and I felt just so drained.

And then did the bike. And then after the bike I laid down and like. I was just so energy less and just like screwed. Basically I'd been going for like a day and a half, like the full Iron Man, not to 

Will Ahmed: mention the last 20 days, right? 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's the last point and everything. And, and then now 

Will Ahmed: you gotta run a marathon.

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. And you gotta run the marathon. And then, you know, I started running the marathon. I literally just, I felt at times, like, and again, I don't wanna sound wishy-washy or like whatever, but I, [00:44:00] but like I, I literally felt like my brother was kind of running with me, like Mike was there. That's beautiful. I just had these like moments of energy.

I had, where did it come from? I had energetic moments where I started running like normal pace around. And I was just like, where is this coming from? Isn't that amazing? 'cause like literally two hours ago I was like, lying on the floor just thinking like, I know I'm gonna do this marathon 'cause it's the last thing that stands between me and this record.

But like, God, I have no idea how it's gonna happen. Right. And then like all of a sudden you're just, you're just ting around and also this 

Will Ahmed: energy, right? 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. So I don't know, I, I, I just think, um, I think everything. Sometimes lines up. Um, and I just think li like, you know, these things really make me feel like life is an incredible thing to, to, to be in.

Right. We're all so lucky and I don't know, I, I, I love, I love this style of event because it's not about being close to the edge or like nearly dying or anything like that. It's, it's more just experiencing. [00:45:00] Interesting and exciting things, you know, that's what I hope the future holds. 

Will Ahmed: You're an interesting whoop case study because like in the earliest days of starting Whoop, I thought of people who overtrained, you know, where essentially your mind lets you, you know, push yourself well past where your body should be.

And, and so I had this romanticized image of, of like very hardcore people, you know, investing in recovery and, uh. Now, of course we've got a very wide audience of people on Whoop, but you are kind of that OG person from the very early days of the Whoop. Anyway, I'm very grateful that you're on the product and I'm curious how you think about recovery in your life and use whoop for that matter.

Spencer Matthews: I, I, I love the product. I'm not just saying that 'cause I've flown all the way to Whoop HQ and spend time with you. Um, I love it. I love it. I've tried, uh, I don't mind saying as well. I'm sure you won't either. I've tried different wearables and, and, you know, w whoops. The one, um. How do I think about recovery?

We were just having an interesting discussion before you walked in actually, about how, like, I've got Tokyo [00:46:00] Marathon coming up next weekend and how you can turn your recovery off, you know, just in case it serves you up. A 

Will Ahmed: Yeah, for sure. 

Spencer Matthews: A low yellow or a red or something gets in your head. Um, you know, I don't think that that actually would have too much impact on, I don't think it would Affects your mindset though.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, it. Mean everyone loves a green recovery, let's be honest. That's true. And, and I was having a, I was having a bit of a whinge, uh, this morning 'cause I feel I've been shortchanged into a low yellow today. Oh. So, so my, because of the time difference. Right, right. Sleep, sleep consistency, which we discussed on untapped can't be consistent if you're traveling.

Right. So, like, it's, 

Will Ahmed: it's hard. Yeah. 

Spencer Matthews: I got my eight and a half hours last night. Ah, good for you. The same time as London, but five hours apart. So I went to sleep at the same time, but obviously, yeah, it now has me as a like 30% sleep pattern, which 

Will Ahmed: I can 

Spencer Matthews: see I have, I found deeply distressing. Uh, but no, I, I'm kind of, I'm kind of joking.

How do I think about recovery? I don't know. Um, I think I listen to my body a lot, you know, if my, and [00:47:00] obviously whoop does a, a very good job of telling me how I'm recovering and stuff. If I'm pushing really, really hard, I can feel it, obviously. Um, you know. What I love about running particularly is there are different styles of runs for different ways of feeling.

You know, like I, I love a recovery run. You'll be familiar with what a recovery run is, obviously. Uh, but you know, if you've been really hammering fast miles, you know, over, over long distance and you, your body feels a bit broken, um, like a slow eight k, uh, you know, a very conversational pace, well actually help your body, right?

It'll help process 

Will Ahmed: Totally. 

Spencer Matthews: Uh, you know, the pain that you're in. Process system. Yeah, exactly. So. You know, you won't find many days now where I don't run. But, you know, I, I, um, I think about recovery mostly to do with sleep. You know, like I, I think, what 

Will Ahmed: are your sleep habits? Sounds like you get a lot of sleep.

Spencer Matthews: I try and get eight hours a night, uh, between seven 30 and, and, and 8 30, 8 30 being a big, 

Will Ahmed: that's 

Spencer Matthews: a nice outcome. Yeah. Health, healthy sleep. But, you know, I won't always get eight 30. I'll get eight 30 if I'm. On my own. 

Will Ahmed: And [00:48:00] for the non Whoopers listening to this, that's like, you're probably dedicating eight to nine hours in bed to get that.

Oh yeah. Quality of sleep, right? 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. I, I'll be in bed like. Nine 30 every night. I'm not, I don't live the exciting, uh, life that I used to, 

Will Ahmed: you've, you've slowed down in some ways and sped up in others. 

Spencer Matthews: Indeed. But I think, uh, you know, one wouldn't be as good without the other. I think, you know. Oh, for sure.

If I had always lived this way, uh, you know, there might be parts of me that. Want the other thing, or, you know, want to go out and want to, you know, I've done that. 

Will Ahmed: You've checked that box. I've 

Spencer Matthews: done enough of that for everyone, I think. Uh, so, you know, uh, there's certainly no debt, uh, left. 

Will Ahmed: Anything in the, the whoop journal that you've kind of identified as, um, helpful or hurtful or anything in your life, you've kind of realized, oh, I shouldn't eat this thing, or this supplement helps, or, you know, you talked about sleep consistency, obviously that's a big one.

Spencer Matthews: Sleep consistency is good. I don't know. Do you know a company called Heights? You guys would work well together? There's a, there's a, a founder called Dan Marie Erta, [00:49:00] who's, who's a, who's, who's brilliant. He's like, he speaks your language. I feel when I'm talking to you. I called you a genius earlier. Not to, not a blow smoke, but you know, I 

Will Ahmed: don't think I deserve that.

Spencer Matthews: You're a very you. No, but what I mean is like you and Dan speak a similar language, like you are founders of a certain. Kind, right? Sure. And like, you know, I, I would be a different style. Who's I, I I don't speak your your guys' language so much, but you'd love him. So Dan. Stan was a, um, insomniac for a while and he had a really bad relationship with sleep.

And he would go to Holland and Barrett and he would spend 200 pounds on, on monthly supplements and only to find that they don't reach your colon, which is where they're supposed to, to get to. Oh, oh wow. And, uh, and then he developed a capsule. The essentially doesn't break down in your stomach acid. That does go the whole way to where it's supposed to be.

And he created a company called Heights, reach Your Heights, and they do magnesium and stuff. So you 

Will Ahmed: take some of that. 

Spencer Matthews: I take magnesium and I take stuff, uh, he does brain food and gut food and, and stuff. So, so I, I take that on a daily basis. Um, I love him. I [00:50:00] invested in, in him and, and you know, I, I think that that's a, that's a great brand.

Um, recently I've been paying a bit of attention to, to cortisol, you know, the, sure. The stress hormone, which I never had before. I was a big advocate for fasting, and I still am. I think it depends. I think, I think if you are. If you're in a big training block and you're really pushing yourself for performance, fasting perhaps is quite a difficult thing to, to sustain.

You know, it's almost like. Ragging your Audi RS six, around the track with you cows of oil. 

Will Ahmed: Yeah, we were talking about bagels earlier. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah. Lovely bagels. God. And, uh, no, I had a chat to a friend of mine called Josh Rose, uh, who, who has a, who has gyms in, in the uk and he just said potentially Aquar could be high.

Like if you are putting your body under numerous stress sources. So like if you're fasting, ands, training really hard and, and you know, having lots of caffeine, front loading it in the morning, you know, to avoid calories basically. He said it's quite, it's quite possible that you'd have quite high levels of cord salt, even if you don't feel stressed.

So his advice was to have a bagel every morning, uh, so to break fast as soon as you wake up. And [00:51:00] also, I, thing that I found that makes a massive difference as well recently is, um, fueling during training. Never done that before. 

Will Ahmed: Oh, cool. 

Spencer Matthews: And recently I've been doing like big, heavy, long runs and just like fueling gels during the training sessions.

I would always just save those for the race. But actually you get so much more out of your training. 

Will Ahmed: Man, this has been awesome hanging with you. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. 

Spencer Matthews: That's very cool. 

Will Ahmed: When, um, when are some of these different documentaries and, you know, different events coming out?

Spencer Matthews: The Spencer Matthews Mi Psychopath documentary, uh, is coming out on channel four. 

Will Ahmed: I'm gonna tune into that. For what it's Earth. 

Spencer Matthews: It's good. 

Will Ahmed: When's that come out? 

Spencer Matthews: It's really exciting actually. And, and it's interesting, you know, there's nothing more stigmatized in the world than psychopathy and, uh, I'm not even suggesting I'm.

Pro walk on. But it's, uh, you know, it's a big scale and it's a really interesting scale. Psychopathy and, and, you know, and, and, and comes with, uh, an awful lot of kind of nuance. Um, but anyway, sorry. So that, that is in its final stage of development now and should come out, [00:52:00] uh, relatively soon. Sorry, I can't give you a date, but I'll let you know, uh, soon.

We'll put it in the 

Will Ahmed: shoutouts 

Spencer Matthews: in the coming months. Um, and then we have, uh. We're just shopping a sizzle round for Project seven at the moment. 

Will Ahmed: Oh, amazing. 

Spencer Matthews: Yeah, so it's, uh, hopefully we'll be with you soon as well, 

Will Ahmed: Spencer. Thanks for doing this. 

Spencer Matthews: Thank you my friend.