Talk RD to Me
Welcome to Talk RD to Me, the unfiltered podcast where we dissect diet culture, metabolism myths, and unveil the raw truth behind the results you truly crave. Join Cat on the ups and downs in her journey from chasing the leanest version of herself, to the unexpected consequences it brought, and how she is now living her a balanced and fulfilling life. In each episode, we unravel the intricacies of fitness, metabolism, and mindset, guiding you towards a happier and more fulfilling version of YOU. Because, let's be real – it's not about the leanest you, it's about finding the joy in your journey. Get ready for unfiltered dietitian real talk that speaks to your soul and empowers you to live the life you desire.
Talk RD to Me
What it ACTUALLY takes to build your dream body with Joey Gast
Ever feel like you're spinning your wheels when it comes to dieting and body composition? Join us as we team up with dietitian extraordinaire, Joey, to cut through the confusion surrounding diet culture. This episode is a treasure trove of insights, from the dangers of under-eating to the empowerment of reverse dieting. We're here to dismantle the myths and guide you with clarity towards the physique you’ve been dreaming of—all while maintaining a joy-filled relationship with food.
Say goodbye to the days when calorie calculators and weekend binges dictated your success. Through our candid discussions on nutrition tracking and strategic eating, you'll discover how tools like MyFitnessPal can revolutionize the way you approach fat loss. We share heartening client stories and personal experiences that illuminate the path to a sustainable, healthy calorie deficit. Listeners will gain a newfound appreciation for the power of food tracking in achieving long-term success, without sacrificing their favorite treats.
But it's not all about what's on your plate; this episode also pumps up the volume on strength training. Why? Because when it comes to transforming your body, lifting weights is just as crucial as your diet. We break down the principles of effective strength training, debunk exercise myths, and shed light on how small, consistent increments can lead to monumental gains. Get ready for a robust discussion that might just have you rethinking your gym routine and gearing up for a more effective, science-backed approach to fitness.
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Welcome to Talk RD to Me, the unfiltered podcast where we dissect diet culture, metabolism myths and unveil the raw truth behind the results you truly crave. My goal is to help guide you towards a happier and more fulfilling version of you Because, let's be real, it's not about the leanest you. It's about finding the joy in your health and fitness journey and building the life you desire. Get ready for unfiltered dietitian, real talk that speaks to your soul and empowers you to live the life you desire. Hello and welcome to the podcast Today. I have on Joey. He is a fellow dietitian and he is going to talk with me today about what it actually takes to build your dream body. So welcome, Joey. How are you?
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, kat, I'm doing well, excited to be on here, and I think you said like sometime earlier that this was I'm your first guest so far on the podcast, so I'm excited for that. And you were a guest on my podcast too, nothing long ago and you killed it, so I'm hoping that I'll be able to return the favor here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, I think I was your first guest other than clients, so you're my first guest in general. So here we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super exciting. I'm excited It'll be a good one.
Speaker 1:For sure, yeah, so talk to me a little bit about what you do as a dietitian. Who are you working with? What are the goals of the clients that you have?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm a dietitian, like Kat said, and I've been doing online nutrition and fitness coaching since like 2017 was when I took on my first client, and I really only had like a handful of clients from like 2017 up to the beginning of 2021, just kind of doing it part time as I was going through school and my internship.
Speaker 2:But since then, you know, I've just been really focusing on the business and it's been going really well and I work with mostly women and women who want to really break free from the dieting cycle. They want to change their body composition, lose weight and make this be like the last time they actually have to lose the weight, because a lot of the women I've worked with have lost weight over and over and over, but they've gained it back because they've done it through unsustainable methods. So work with women who they want to lose weight, get more tone, feel more confident in their workouts in the gym and do it in a way that they can maintain it for life. So, yeah, and the company, or my company, is called I Thrive Nutrition and Fitness as well, so awesome, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So your clients are always crushing it. I see you know a big thing that you do is work with people, like you said, with body composition, and you know getting lean or toned, you know those keywords that come up a lot in client conversation. So that's what I wanted to kind of dive in with you today is how and what it actually takes to build that dream body. So when clients are coming to you, what do you feel like is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to fat loss and building muscle and getting like, let's say, quote unquote lean, yeah, how much time do we have?
Speaker 2:I know right, that's a big, big question.
Speaker 1:I'll just jump right in and I think the whole conversation is going to flow from here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think one, one big thing that, like one big issue that I see a lot of women struggle with is nutrition wise, is just the tendency to under eat for their goals.
Speaker 2:So, like when clients come to me, the first thing I have them do the first week is just to track their usual intake so we get an idea of kind of what they're currently eating and probably nine times out of 10 or almost 90 times out of 100. Like they're under eating for the goals that they have because they see all these like my fitness power recommendations when they log in and they tell them, hey, eat 1200 calories a day to lose weight, so they think that's the answer, when we know that that is way too little for nearly everybody. So I think like a big misconception is that they they need to eat super low calorie and also, on the exercise part of it, they need to be doing a lot of like really high intensity, like circuit training style workouts to burn as many calories as they possibly can during their workout session in order to get the body they want.
Speaker 1:And I love that you mentioned logging your stuff and your goal into my fitness. I always refer back to this because when I was, you know, a young teenager and I put my goals into my fitness pal, there's like you need to eat 900 calories to reach this goal in three months or whatever it is. So I'm glad you're bringing that up, because some of these calculators that people are doing online are giving such a low recommendation. And one, it's unsustainable. And two, you know it's unrealistic, it's not supporting the goal that you have, which is to really build muscle mass.
Speaker 1:So when we're talking about nutrition, and you know so many women coming to you and myself that are eating 800, 900 calories, what do you feel like is the first thing you work on with them from a nutrition standpoint? Like, what do people need to understand about what it's actually going to take to build muscle? You know, because I think so many people don't have that foundation of muscle mass. So when you're losing weight, you're really just, you know, maybe losing even more muscle mass and maybe a little bit of body fat and you have nothing to show for it. So where do you kind of start someone off when they come to you with some sort of nutrition goal. You know, let's just start with that nutrition wise. Where do you, where do you take it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess, like some of the some of the downsides you kind of mentioned a little bit of following that, like my fitness power recommendation or whatever recommendation that is super low, is that for one it's just not going to be sustainable. So like you might lose a little bit of weight in the beginning for the first two, three weeks, but you're not going to be able to maintain it because nobody can maintain eating 1200, 900 calories a day for the rest of their life. So that's one big issue. Two is that that low intake, even if it was quote unquote sustainable, you're not eating enough to really fuel your workouts to, like you said, put on muscle, which plays a big role in how your body composition looks too Like it's not always just about fat loss. You have to have the right ratio of body fat to muscle mass to to have like the lean tone look you want.
Speaker 2:On top of that, all of the health ramifications of eating a super low intake poor sleep, poor stress management, poor mood, drowsy the whole day. Your energy levels are super low. So even if you, even if it was sustainable and you didn't lose muscle mass, if you're eating 900 calories to lose weight, you would feel like crap, like you would not feel good. So those are reasons why you don't want to go that route. But what? What I have clients do when they do track their food intake and they're eating a thousand calories a day, 1100, even 1200. And in order to like optimally be eating enough for the activity they're doing, they should be eating, let's say, 2000 or 1700 or whatever it is. It's slowly working on building that calorie intake up because your body needs to fuel, like I said, to fuel those workouts, to actually put on muscle, because one thing you mentioned was so many people think they have more muscle than they actually do and building that muscle allows you to get the body you want without even having to lose as much fat as what you think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it takes that mindset shift and realization of like okay, we need to eat to build that lean body mass, that muscle mass. And it sounds very shocking to hear even a lot of our clients are eating truly 800 to 1200 calories and stuck in that for so long. So you really have to shift and just like, trust this process, because hearing that 800 to 1200 all the way up to 17 to 2000 is so scary. So you really have to understand why that is important and that we've talked about, I think, in your podcast as well is like you are generally under eating and the goal here is to slowly start adding calories back, hopefully maintaining maybe your weight might fluctuate a little bit. I've actually had clients I don't know if you have like while they're in this reverse dieting phase, adding more calories back slowly. Have you seen people lose weight during that process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so great question. I think a lot of people like you said, a lot of women especially, get really scared when they hear this, like, hey, we're going to go into this phase and build your calories up, because they're like, oh well, I don't want to build too much muscle or I don't want to get too bulky or I don't want to gain weight. But like one thing to just remember is like you're not going to just get bulky all of a sudden, like that takes years and years and years. And most people like try to get bulky but they don't even actually ever end up getting bulky because it just takes so long. But your question about if I've seen people lose weight and yeah, I always kind of explain to clients that there are two or three different scenarios that happen when we reverse diet and build your calories up. One is you just maintain your weight completely, and the way this happens is because as you build your calories up, your metabolism starts to adjust to that, whether it's like your basal metabolic rate increasing a little bit, maybe through the thermic effect of food a little bit, maybe it's your energy is just higher. So you like subconsciously go on walks more, or maybe subconsciously like do more cleaning or activity around the house so that speeds up or your gym performance increases too because you're eating more and then that makes you burn a little bit more calories. You need a little bit more calories for recovery because your gym performance is higher. So like, even though there's an increase in food, there's an increase in energy expenditure or the amount of calories you're burning from all those other areas. So it all kind of balances out and you can go through this first phase of building your calories up without even gaining any weight. So that's like one scenario.
Speaker 2:The third or second scenario would be that your energy expenditure doesn't necessarily increase the same rate as what your calories are increasing and sometimes there you can see a little bit of actual body weight gain. But if it overall helps us get your calories up to where you'll respond to fat loss the best, then it's worth it. Like if you were to spend $5 but you knew you were going to get $20 back at the end of the week because you spent the five, it would be worth it. So sometimes we see a little bit of weight gain and a lot of times too that weight gain just comes from like just water retention, from just eating more food and not even necessarily fat gain anyway. But that's kind of the third scenario of like maybe gaining a little bit of weight and I'm talking like you're gaining like 10 pounds in a couple of weeks of a reverse diet or building your calories up. That's pretty excessive. You don't really see that much, but we're talking like maybe a couple pounds here and there.
Speaker 2:And then the last scenario is, like you mentioned sometimes you actually do see some weight loss or even fat loss or body recomposition happening from you just getting into the habit of eating more calories, training hard, you know, pushing yourself in your workouts, eating more protein too. That's a big thing that I typically have clients do in this phase is bring their protein up, because a lot of people are under eating a protein. But all those things could lead to you losing a little bit of fat. At the same time we bring calories up and actually losing weight. And all three of these scenarios if at the end of the day, we still get your calories to a healthy range for you so you're able to respond to fat loss All three of those scenarios are when, whether you gain weight, your weight stays the same or you lose weight. I always tell clients either of those scenarios. If we get your body to a spot where I can respond to fat loss and that's the goal that we have right now then that's a win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's something a lot of people don't understand. I even had a client, like last week we were talking about and like we can talk through this together, I think you know. She came to me like telling me she's eating 1500 calories. I look at her, my fitness pal she's really eating 1100 and wondering, you know, doing 45 minutes of cardio and wondering why she gained 10 pounds right over that time period. So I think that's something else to understand the reason why we are adding calories back. It's like you mentioned it a few times, you know, priming yourself or making sure your body is prepared for fat loss. So can you explain that a little bit more? What does that mean to you? Like what happens if someone is coming to you and they're at 800 calories and you know we stay there? What would be the next step in that scenario and why would that not work long term?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the biggest thing when it comes to, I guess, what you would call like priming your body for fat loss or reverse dieting up to maintenance, like why would want to do that, is Because when you are eating a low amount of calories you're overall putting your body in a very stressful state physically and when your body is stressed it doesn't respond to fat loss the best mentally, because one you're gonna be just hungrier. It's typically when people experience a lot of stress they feel this kind of like these cravings for these high sugar foods, high fat foods, high calorie foods. So that's one is like mentally, psychologically, that stress causes you to just feel hungrier. So if you're eating such a low amount of calories where you're mentally stressed and your hunger is so high, then you're more likely to fall off of that 800 that calorie diet which is, you know, understandable it's 800 calories. But Physically your body is also stressed too. And when your body is physically stressed it causes not just psychological hunger to increase but it causes like actual Physiological hunger to increase too. So you feel hungry. So you have the psychological hunger and the physical hunger kind of fighting against you to Actually eat that low amount of calories. And if you do that long enough.
Speaker 2:What's gonna happen is over the weekend when you're tempted with these super high calorie foods, like you're gonna completely bench and you're gonna overeat on calories those couple of days and Probably a race like any kind of calorie deficit you might have.
Speaker 2:You know, put yourself in previously the previous five days of the week, and Then that puts you in a scenario where you're trying really hard five days out of the week eating the super low calorie amount, but because you're overdoing it way overdoing on the weekends, because you restrict it so hard, you're actually undoing all of it. So you're trying hard five out of the seven days but you're actually ending up with no net Benefit or bet net result at the end of it. So when we bring your calories up and we get your body eating enough, it gets you out of that physically stress day and mentally stress state to where now your body is actually Also burning the amount of calories that it should be burning and it hasn't slowed down at all from that low intake that you're eating and you're actually able to lose fat eating more calories than what you would have been able to lose if you were to just jump straight into a Fallas phrase from the get-go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love all of that and I think that's something so many people are stuck on that that Scary thought of, oh my god, I'm only eating 800 calories, so I have to go lower and I have to like or stay here and increase my cardio.
Speaker 1:And You're doing more harm than good by creating a more stressed environment.
Speaker 1:And I always say like, really the last thing your body wants to do when You're stressed is lose weight or lose body fat or whatever it is. Sometimes it can Increase your weight and then, like you said too, a lot of the times we're doing really great and we're hitting that, and you know, five days out of the week, but then the binging happens on the weekend, the emotional eating because you are hungry, because your body Needs it, and there's nothing like I don't want to say wrong with you necessarily because your body is truly just hungry. So increasing those calories up to a more realistic Range is going to do you far more good, you know. And then I think too, what? What other people get stuck on I think not just my clients, maybe, but probably yours is tracking on the days, like the week days and then the weekends. So what advice do you have from a nutrition standpoint and do you have a lot of people Track with my fitness pal or where do you have clients kind of checking in with their nutrition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so most of my clients. They do track on my fitness pal and um. You know we implement strategies if they're going out to dinner on a weekend or they have celebration or they're going on a vacation where maybe they step away from tracking for a day or step away from tracking for a meal or whatever it is. But like on a daily, routinely basis, they do track their food because that allows us To make sure we're eating enough and that's like the big thing. When it comes to tracking, I think there's just like misconception. Tracking is bad and tracking is automatically associated with restriction.
Speaker 2:But I want clients to track because it allows us to be more precise when we go into a fat loss phase without Overdoing it and going like too short in calories. Because if you're not tracking and you're like, hey, scientifically I know I have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but I don't know how many calories I'm actually eating. I'm going to try to eat the lowest amount possible to make 110 percent sure I'm in a calorie deficit and that often leads to people Way under doing their calories because they want to make sure that they are in the deficit that they want. But when you're tracking your calories. You can be more precise to where, like, you can actually eat a little bit more, stay within that fat loss calorie range and know with 100 percent certainty Like as long as you're tracking things that you are in that range. So it prevents these extremes of like really restricting your calories and then these extremes of like doing that for too long and then binging afterwards. Um, so what was your question? I think I answered your question.
Speaker 1:I think you did. Yeah, just about like tracking in my fitness pal, because I think some people have this misconception of you know okay. Well, if I track on my fitness pal, I never hit my calories because before I had an 800 calorie goal and that felt really restrictive. So I always like to switch it into that standpoint and mindset shift of okay, but this is actually a tool you can use to eat the foods you actually want to eat and still see that weight loss and that fat loss that you want to see. Because you're tracking those meals, you're becoming aware of the calories in your red Robin burger.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like you have to realize that, okay, if we continue to eat this way like Um, we're not actually in a calorie deficit one, but two. There are ways to include these foods and it just takes that little bit of learning curve to actually track the foods in and get uncomfortable with that learning experience, because it is scary and like a little overwhelming sometimes to get into my fitness pal and track the meal and you don't know how to track when you're out to eat. But it's like you just need to go in and do it sometimes and learn about your food, because I always say we were never taught about food or nutrition other than like the pyramid in grade school.
Speaker 1:So, Um, I think it's a great learning tool for a lot of people. Um, like one of my clients, I'm using red Robin because she Went to red Robin every single weekend and then other restaurants throughout the weekend and she's wondering why she's not losing weight. So I had her track her red Robin meal and and it was like 1200 calories for one meal when her calorie range is like 1600. So you know it's very easy to Say no to tracking, but you have to switch your mindset to it's allowing you to eat these foods In a more flexible way, so you don't feel restricted because it's no longer the 800 calorie goal that you're used to seeing. When you log into my fitness pal and put in your goal weight, we're giving you realistic goals too. So I think that's something that it's a little Scary to go in and feels a little restrictive at first for tracking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple of things I wanted to point out that you kind of mentioned like.
Speaker 2:Tracking my food and learning to do that properly and like changed my body in that way was like the one of the most freeing things that I experienced back when I Started doing it, because I I had lost back in like 2013. I lost like 40 to 50 pounds not tracking, and I was Doing the same things that I kind of just mentioned previously of being probably too restricted with my diet, like I was Routinely just skipping meals here and there, really cutting out certain foods. Um, I was actually really obsessive with the scale, too and weighed myself probably like 7 to 10 time today and be like, hey, I want to make sure that I weigh the same amount that I did in the morning. That way, I know when I go to sleep and I'm sleeping for eight hours I'm going to weigh less the next day, which is not a healthy way to go about it, by the way, do not do that. But I was doing that and I was doing those extremes because I wasn't aware of, like, how Tracking our calories can allow you to like just be in a calorie deficit a healthy calorie deficit but still enjoy the foods you want, and when you do it for long enough and you realize that, hey, I can have Like three chips of Hoy cookies a day, as long as I hit my calorie range still and hit my protein and eat a balanced whole food diet mostly, and Still lose fat.
Speaker 2:Once you realize you can do all those things, it's like wow, like I actually can have some of these quote-unquote bad foods in Moderation as long as I'm planning for it, budgeting my calories for it, and that's like so freeing, because then you don't have these, you know You're not scared of certain foods. And then the point you mentioned too was Like you're just more, you become more aware and you learn so much about food of, oh, if I'm gonna go to red Robin and get this burger, I know it's gonna be 1200 calories. So maybe, instead of eating the whole thing, maybe I'll just have half of my meal and have 600 calories worth and I can easily fit that in my days worth the calories and Still see progress, or at least maintain my progress while doing that. So it's. It feels like a restrictive thing, but it's like you have a little bit more I Wouldn't even call it restriction more detail You're paying attention to to allow you to have more freedom and flexibility overall, like you can either sacrifice your food choices or sacrifice the five minutes it takes to like Log your food in. My fitness pal and for me I'd rather sacrifice the five minutes it takes to log my food versus the food choices.
Speaker 2:And then just the last point, just to reiterate I've had clients who have told me that I've tried tracking calories or tracking my macros before and it just didn't work. I'm like, oh, like, what were the goals you were aiming for? And they're like well, I was aiming for a 1,100 calories a day and like well, that's why it didn't work, that's why it felt so restrictive. It wasn't because you were tracking. That's not what made it restrictive. It was because you were trying to eat such a low amount. But when you actually have a reasonable calorie goal, like 2,000 or 1,700 whatever you know is best for your body Like that actually doesn't feel as restrictive as what you know so many people think it feels like yeah, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:I think we coach the same way and that in that aspect of like, alright, well, you know, and that's like such a sticking point of like I don't want to track because it didn't work before. Okay, no, it's just your goal was very unrealistic and then you felt like you were failing and then you started the whole self-sabotaging Loop again. So I think that's you know, if you're listening to this try tracking again. Like give, give it an open, you know. Try again and see one where your calories are currently falling. Are you in that 800 calorie range or are you in the 3,000 calorie range? And then you know the next step to go to with your nutrition. But I actually I'm sure you do this to like challenge my clients to eat the craving foods almost day at like, daily, add it in as a snack and Challenge your mindset as to why you think that food is bad. So my one client like loves Oreo cookies which who does not? But my, my thing with that is alright, log in your two or three Oreo cookies, pair that with a healthier option where you're getting some protein or fiber or some sort of healthy fat to balance it out, and then move on with your day. There's nothing like what is bad about that and I think no one stops to ask that question too of like what, what is bad about that food? Like, would you rather binge on the whole entire container because you restricted them all week, or would you rather just have two every single day so you don't have that that urge, which I think is a whole another topic we could dive into, probably. But yeah, I definitely think, like my fitness pal same thing, like you said, that really helped on your journey Of weight loss and feeling like not restricted and losing weight with tracking. That's similar to me too. Like that's where I really learned how to eat consistently, how to get my protein in, how to stay within a calorie range and how to play around with foods that I actually Liked eating. So I think it's something everyone needs to give another try If you really do have a strong weight loss goal or fat loss goal, whatever it might be. But yeah, I think I think we dove pretty good into the nutrition piece.
Speaker 1:I'm curious too, because I know you're all about Strength training and you know getting into the gym having some heavier weights. So let's like dive into the strength training versus cardio topic, because Everyone is on these damn Peloton bikes killing themselves with cardio. Or like everyone I see at the gym when I go, like the card, I just watch. I'm a gym watcher. I like people watch what I'm there and they're just killing themselves on the treadmill, which I'm not saying that's bad. Every you know there's an extent of cardio we can do, but it's like the whole time I'm there this person has the sweat band on the incline and they're going, they're going, they're going. So I'm curious when does strength training play in to you as a coach and your clients? Why is that so important versus just like the cardiovascular route as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So great question. I'm excited to dive into this too. So, with my clients, the, the goals that I give them are focused mainly on Okay, we're gonna have some kind of like resistance training base, like per week, of like a routine we're doing, and then we're gonna have some kind of step goal and any cardio that we add on top of that. It's typically there for Like, just pure enjoyment, or if we we do feel like maybe it would benefit their health in some way of like adding it in, but most of the time it's just pure enjoyment. Most clients I actually don't really ever like a sign structured cardio to ever we're like hey, we're gonna go on the, let's go for 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:Because the strength training is going to cover two aspects of Changing your body. It's gonna cover the muscle building side of things and then it's also gonna cover the fat loss side of things. By. You know, burning a little bit of extra calories when you're lifting weights, like it's not a ton. Same thing with cardio it's really not a ton, but it is some. So it kind of covers both of those factors of helps you, like, build up the muscle underneath and then it helps you lose some of the fat, you know, assuming you're in a calorie deficit. On that end, cardio only really helps when it term.
Speaker 2:When it comes to like body composition and changing the way your body looks, it only Focuses on one side of that variable, which is the calories burned. Like you're not going to Build any. What you might build a little bit if you're like completely Somebody who has never worked out before. You might burn or build a little bit of muscle with cardio initially, but that's gonna die off really quickly.
Speaker 2:So we can, like make our routine focused on Lifting four times a week and actually hit both of those variables that help improve body composition, or only do cardio four times a week, which only focuses on one. So it's, you're getting a more bang for your buck by doing the lifting, not to mention, like the benefits of lifting on bone density, the benefits of having muscle for better blood glucose control. Also, it just like the I hate using the term functional, but the functionality of just being stronger and being able to like carry heavier things like your kids or carry groceries in with you know, one or two trips versus three or four because you're stronger, and things like that. But body composition, wise lifting focuses on two of those variables instead of just one. So you want to have most of your training that's programmed, or your workouts each week be lifting based, and there's another rabble who I can go into regarding the lifting.
Speaker 2:The moment is dive in right now. Yeah, so a big issue a lot of people have with lifting to is they think, just because they're using weights, that they are, like resistance training, the right way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can you can use quote unquote weights and either one use way too light of weight to do four sets of 15 for every exercise and feel a little bit of a burn, work up a little bit of sweat.
Speaker 2:You short rest periods and you can call it lifting because you're using weights, but it's basically cardio with a little bit of resistance, versus actually taking like a two minute rest period, probably like a minute and a half minimum, probably closer to two minutes for like heavier lifts or compound lifts, but having at least a minute and a half rest between sets, taking each set really close to failure. You don't necessarily have to go to absolute failure, but getting actually close to failure and adequate rest, while maybe just doing two to three sets for a lot of exercises versus like four to five sets. That's like the type of lifting that's going to really change your body, as those longer rest periods probably not as many sets as you think, probably pushing yourself harder than what you think. And then the sorry, my camera, let me switch really quick, okay. And then the yeah, overheated so had to switch. But then the other aspect like I said, the lighter weights, shorter rest periods it's not getting that same physical adaptation as the other side of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think a lot of people are going to the gym or they're working out but they're not training. Like you're not taking the time, like people are on their phones doing like leg extension. You like that is not a workout. That is like you need to get into that routine and understand. You know slowing the movement down and like doing the same workouts are so important to, because so many women are like or at least my clients, they're always like when are you changing my protocol? And like you're not, you haven't been doing this for two weeks. You're not changing your protocol for a long time. You know, like I think getting out of the mindset to have like I need to change my workout every single day for muscle confusion, like I, what are your thoughts on that? Like I'm sure you have thoughts.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah for sure that that's a big issue too, and I get that sometimes to clients wondering like we're like three or four weeks in and like winter exercise is going to change. I'm like not for a while.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, I definitely have. Like 12 weeks is usually when I switch exercises most of the time. But you could really do them longer than 12 weeks and like see just as good as progress, if not maybe even better than switching them up every 12 weeks. But like the reason why people switch them up so much is because when you like work the muscle on a slightly different angle, in a slightly different way, you're going to hit the muscle from like some different muscle fibers of the muscle that you might not have hit before and that causes this like extra soreness because you're hitting it in a slightly different way. And people mistake this like crazy soreness or this crazy burn the next day where they can't sit down on the toilet without like holding on to something on the side and I think, like after leg day, they think that's like what they need to see progress. But really like that soreness isn't necessarily indicative of like actually seeing progress, building muscle in your body, changing like.
Speaker 2:I rarely get sore after my workouts. Now I get a little bit sore like the next day, but it's usually gone within 24 hours and at least 48 hours is usually gone, because if your body is always so sore all the time you're not recovering from those workouts, which means your body actually isn't adapting. It's just like has all the soreness and it's just like feeling enough to like maintain the level of muscle you have, but you want to build more muscle. Like if you're going to the gym you want to continuously like build a little bit more than what you have. So I think that's why people want to switch exercises. So much is because it produces this like extra soreness. But that extra soreness people think it means that they had a really good workout or that their body changing, when it actually doesn't.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a good point of like just because your sore does not mean you had a good workout, and it could also it could potentially mean your body, like you said, is not recovering the way it should be. So I think that's something else so many people need to understand is, like you do not need to be doing a different workout every single week. You know, just get in the routine of doing what your coach has programmed for you and like, do the same workouts and get really good at them and focus on, you know, increasing, you know, the weight you're lifting, the actual weight you're lifting, the amount of reps you're doing, your form, like all of that is so much more important than just switching your workout next week and not giving yourself the chance to improve on those things. So, with that being said, like what are some other areas you think are like good measures of like progress in the gym other than that soreness, other than the soreness feeling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so obviously like a longer term one is like how your body is changing in the mirror as far as you know how it looks progress pictures, like if your goal is to build muscle, then you should see like some kind of change in those areas if you probably are actually building muscle and progressing. So like the visual aspect of it, which is a little bit more long term, like If you're a beginner, it's probably gonna take probably four weeks at least to like see some type of change in the mirror and pictures. If you are Advanced, like it might take multiple months to like actually really notice like your body changing. From that. A more short-term kind of measurement of progress is just Are you able to slowly increase weight or reps in the gym Maybe not necessarily even on a week-to-week basis, but just even on like a month-to-month basis? Are you able to do a little bit more? It doesn't have to be something like crazy like going up by 20 pounds on the leg press, even if you're able to do five pounds more in the leg press for the same amount of reps that you did four weeks ago. Like that's progress, which also, too, it's important that we're actually trying to progress.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people fall in the trap of, okay, I'm using weights and this, these sets are challenging, but they don't like go into their next session and see okay, last week I did 200 pounds for sets of 10 on leg press, I'm gonna really push it to try to get sets of 11 and get one extra rep on each set. A lot of people don't Like have that mentality or don't even think about that. They just go in, add some weight and go through the motions again. So you have to be like purposely trying to increase those things too and also Keeping track of, like, what you're doing. A lot of people don't even keep track of their workouts and their reps and their sets and their weights and Then they can't remember what they did last week.
Speaker 2:So make sure you have some kind of like app or even just like writing down notes, even like a no pad or something to like write down the weights and reps you're doing, so then you're able to just aim for like one more rep next week at least. Or maybe it's like you add two and a half pounds On each side, so like the smallest increment of weight you can increase. And do that, because if you increase by, let's say, even like Two and a half pounds a month on an exercise and you that for 12 months straight. That's what like what? Two and a half times 12 is probably like 30, like 30. I think it's 30 30 pounds more you're doing in 12 months for the same amount of reps. And I guarantee you if you started with 200 pounds for sets of 10 and at the end of the year You're doing 230 for sets of 10 with the same technique, the same control and all that, your body's gonna look different. So like making sure you're kind of forcing that progression to or in that progression is happening too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Like be intentional with what you're doing at the gym and then you won't be bored when you're trying to be your. Your last week of being like, oh my god, I want to hit this number, like this is a goal that I want to have for myself, like 230 on the leg press, you know. So I think that's a good way to kind of switch to and to like, you know, just not doing these different workouts every day off of the Peloton app, like that's not gonna get you that body transition that you're looking or transformation that you're looking for. It's gonna be the same movements, being really repetitive and like, if you follow Joey on Instagram, like he's posting the same workouts that he's doing every same.
Speaker 1:Like your deadlifts, your chest press, like those are gonna be key Movements in any program, or they should be, you know. So those are like I think probably you and I, my workouts very rarely change. I have the same types of movements. I change around accessory movements of anything, but you're always gonna have, like these staple lifts in there anyway. So just get really good at them and focus on your form and send your form to your coach and you know, like, focus on being intentional and increasing the weight, increasing the reps, and it won't be boring that way.
Speaker 2:I don't think yeah, and a couple of a couple of things that I wanted to bring up to was like that is so important, like progressing in your lifts and like hitting new lifting milestones of oh, I can actually hit a 200 pound leg press now when I started at 150, or something that is exciting and that takes the place of, like the quote-unquote fun You're kind of looking for when you're trying to switch exercises up. So much. So a lot, of, a lot of reasons why people Want to switch exercises because they're not intentionally trying to progress and they get bored of doing, oh, 150 pounds on the leg press for my fourth week in a row and that's because you're not like intentionally trying to increase.
Speaker 2:So that's one thing. And another thing too is, I think, well, another reason why people Think they need to switch up exercises so often is a lot to do with how the personal training scene is in person, and I've I've never been an in-person personal trainer, and so I'll be transparent with that. But I've heard other trainers talk about how, like, if they're a trainer in like a big box gym, big popular gym, sometimes like from the gym, they're encouraged to like put clients through workouts that like really beat them up, because then they feel this like crazy sort of, and then they're gonna want to come back. And same thing goes for a lot of these like fitness classes and things, too, like they want you to keep coming back Because a lot of time people are just paying on like a class-by-class basis, and the most short-term way to get somebody to feel accomplished is to make them tired, make them really sore, and that way they feel like they did something.
Speaker 2:So they kind of you know, incorporate classes like that that are either changing exercises so often or like doing way too much volume, like doing, you know, five sets of 20 on things that they really shouldn't be doing because it gives you that short-term physical Feeling of working hard. So I feel like you did something and you come back where like the route you and I probably take when it comes to programming, which is some people might view as the boring route of a little bit less sets. You know the same exercise is week-to-week in progressing that'll get what gets you actually like the long-term results. So I think people have that misconception of how their workouts should be programmed to, based off of those short-term Experiences of, like, short-term commitments with in-person trainers. Not everyone's like that, but heard stories about that.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. Yeah, definitely, and I think that's what people are looking for a lot of the time. So it's a good we're talking about this to understand why that's not always the best. And you know A lot of my clients are going to large group classes or orange theory or whatever it is, and they all have a time and place like yes, it's maybe fun for you to go and do something different, but you also have to have that like foundation of strength training, being very intentional with it if you really want to change your body.
Speaker 1:Because Starting from the beginning, like we want to be eating enough to build, we want to be focusing on Strength training and being able to put our food towards building muscle. And if you're just going, and you know now, increasing all your calories and going and doing orange theory where it's all, what is it? Cardio based types of training, you know maybe the goal shifts a little bit more, like you're, you know you're your nutrition goal might shift a little bit. So, yeah, definitely a lot of different things we've touched on here. I've loved the conversation so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been awesome but yeah, for my fitness pal, and then you know strength training, all of the things. So what would you say Like what are your starting tips for someone who has this vision to build that dream body, really get lean, tone out? Whatever you want to say like where would you suggest people start in that goal? What are your biggest tips?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm kind of like a lot of obviously a lot of tips are coming in my head. So I Think you know the the biggest thing is Making sure that you spend adequate time, especially if you don't have a lot of weight to lose, like, let's say, if, like, you might not even really need to necessarily lose that much actual body weight on the scale, but you want to change your body composition. Spending plenty of time Eating at maintenance, enough to actually build muscle underneath and feel strong in the gym and progress that way. I think that's huge for a lot of people who like, hey, like, and they come to you and they're like. You know I might want to lose like five to ten pounds, but I really just want to like change how my body looks. You know, focus on eating enough protein, eating at least around maintenance, especially in the beginning, and just progressing in the gym. So that's kind of like a tip for a person in that boat, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:For a tip for somebody who has maybe more weight to lose, like a practical, strategical tip.
Speaker 2:Let's say, if you have to lose 30 pounds, really taking the time to do what we kind of talked about in the beginning of tracking your food, seeing where you're at, seeing what your current habits are like and at least spending a few weeks Building your calories up to what your maintenance level should be before thinking about going into an attentional fat loss phase.
Speaker 2:Because you want to build the habits you need to succeed in the fat loss phase before you even go into it. So, eating a proper amount of protein, eating a consistent calorie intake, sleeping well, being consistent with your workout routine you want to get really routine and get those habits down Before you add on the challenge of, like, being in a fat loss phase. In order to do that, you want to build your calories up at the same way and then also, like we talked about it, get your metabolism to a spot where just responds to fat loss so much better. So that's kind of like a second Strategical tip, I guess. I guess did you ask for three or did you just say, like any tips, I?
Speaker 2:Had it as three, but whatever, if you feel like two was good, if you have a third one to throw in, you're more welcome but so those are both good in my eyes, but yeah so I have a third one, and this one, I guess, is like a strategic tip, but it's also like a mindset tip to which is and I think it's a misconception that people have is if you're in a fat loss phase like, let's say you're working with a coach and you know you build your calories up, got your body to a Place where it would respond to fat loss best and let's say, your maintenance calorie range you built up to was 2000 and let's say you're bringing calories down to 1600 to lose body fat, so you're bringing them down by 400. So 1600 is now your fat loss Calorie number. I usually use ranges with clients, not like specific numbers, but let's just say 1600. I Think a big misconception people have is if they eat more than 1600, then they either are going to lose fat and go backwards or they're going to not lose any fat at all. But if your maintenance calorie calories are 2000 and Anything below 2000, even if it's above 1600, will probably yield some type of fat loss. So if you go over your calorie goal by 200, any 1800 instead of 1600, you still maybe lost a little bit of fat that day even though you went over your range.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of clients or a lot of people Don't realize that in the beginning and think, oh, I went over my calorie range. Like I was supposed to hit 1600, I 1800, so now I'm gaining fat back, I'm going backwards but that's not the case. Like you're still burning probably 2000, so maybe instead of a 400 calorie deficit that a, you're at a 200 calorie deficit instead and maybe you ate 2000 calories instead of 1600 and there you're, just that calorie maintenance. You didn't even go backwards. And I think clients think, oh well, I went over my calorie goal by 400, so that means like I over ate my maintenance by 400, but you didn't like you ate right at maintenance. So what I really encourage clients do, especially when they're in fat loss phases or they're in situations where they're more tempted the ovary or maybe they do eat a couple hundred calories more Like at least try to stick to that maintenance number that we established before we went into the fat loss phase, because if you at least do that Maybe your weight loss and fat loss will take longer.
Speaker 2:Like if two or three times a week You're hitting your maintenance calories instead of your fat loss range. Like it's gonna make your fat loss slower but you're at least not going backwards and it's just taking a little bit longer. But that's not a bad thing. Like who cares if you lose? You know the 10 pounds you want to lose, and and five months versus like two months, like it really doesn't make Much of a difference in the grand scheme of your life If it takes you a little bit longer. But I think realizing that and realize there's a big, wide range of you to be able to lose fat or maintain your results Versus like a set number, it allows people not to freak out if they go over that set number of their fat loss range and Not end up sabotaging themselves, because I think that's a big one of the biggest problems people have.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, and I think, like, as you're saying this and some of the numbers that are coming up, like, oh my god, I can lose weight at sixteen hundred. Probably, yes, because you've never gotten to your maintenance calories. So like, let go of the timeline. Like Joey was saying, who cares if it takes five months versus two? Like Let go of that time frame that is in your mind and just like, commit to the process of all of this. It's it's going to take some time if you're at 800 calories to get you up to 2000, if that's where your body needs to be, and just be open to trying it, because you've never done it before.
Speaker 1:Probably, like that number sounds so scary to people, like anytime I tell someone number over 2000, they're like I can't eat that much, like whoa, like that's scary. So imagine getting to that number that Joey's talking about, that 2200, and then being able to lose weight at sixteen hundred. That is the whole point of what we're doing. And, like Joey's saying, then if you're in that fat loss phase at sixteen hundred and you overeat a day or two, like You're still within your maintenance calories. So just like, allow yourself to go through the whole process and, you know, give up the timeline because it is going to take some time, but it's so well worth it, I think, to give yourself that food freedom of allowing yourself to eat where your body actually needs to be at.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah this was like last year. So my, my son, was born November of 2022 and when, around the time he was born, I told myself I wanted to lose lose weight because I was at close to like 220 at that point Wasn't like a scenario where I like, oh, let myself go. I just was really into powerlifting. So I was eating a lot more food and kind of purposely gaining and I decided, you know, I want to focus a little bit less on powerlifting, a little bit more on like Just building or working out to like build muscle and maintain a good physique. And I wanted to get leaner for health reasons, just in case you know, just to be a little healthier of a body weight and just feel a little bit better in my own skin. And I said this goal of like I wanted to lose 20 pounds in nine months and like I could have Set a goal to lose 20 pounds in like four or five months and I probably could have like really pushed myself to do it.
Speaker 2:But I took so many of these quote-unquote maintenance days in there along the way that like pushed that timeline back and it was the easiest fat loss phase or phases or fat loss goal that I've ever had to achieve. Because, like I had like I had that mentality of if I have a celebration, a birthday or an event coming up or a vacation, I'm just gonna go up to maintenance for either that day or that weekend or that week, and I was okay with that progress being slower and it the slower you take it and the more maintenance days you allow yourself to take, without being impatient about the process. I should actually live your life while doing it, versus it being like this, like short four-month period where I'm just gonna like make all these super big sacrifices and then at the end I'm gonna be like done with everything and Like, when you take it slower and have those maintenance days along the way, it makes it more like actually fitting into your lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I think that's so important and, like so many people are used to, like that 30 day quick fix, you know, 21 day, whatever. So Just like releasing that timeline and finding what's gonna work for like your lifestyle right now and being able to fit in the things you love. And you know, if you're listening to this and you're like what the fuck is maintenance calories and you know being in a surplus or a reverse diet and you're hearing all these terms and you're like I want to eat 1600 or 2000 calories and be able to lose weight, reach out to Joey or myself like we are more than happy. Probably I'm putting you out there too, but I'm. I know you're more than happy to explain what that means to someone and how to get there. So feel free to reach out to either of us and talk through what that looks like for you. And you know, find what works with your lifestyle and stop the endless restriction. I think we're both on the same page with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely feel free. My DMs are always open if anybody has any questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and where can we find you, joey? Where are you on the social media? You Facebook group? I know you have. You have Instagram, so tell us where to find you and your podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my Instagram is Joey the dietitian. At Joey the dietitian, I also have a client only client testimonial transformation Facebook or Instagram. That's like I thrive nutrition and fitness, I think. So look up my personal one. And then I also have like you can look me up on my personal Facebook, which is just Joey Gast. I have a private Facebook group, or like a free one, for people who want to join. That is that loss made simple, so you can look that up too. And if you friend me on Facebook, you can find me. I post about it all the time. And then I have a podcast called fit take with Joey Gast. So that's on Apple podcast, in Spotify, and there's an episode with cat, if you want to jump on and listen to that one.
Speaker 1:Yes, awesome. Well, thank you so much everyone. Go give Joey a follow. Join his Facebook group. He has so many amazing live trainings in there. I see you posting about all the time so lots of good information. So go follow along and Thank you all for joining and we'll see you on the next episode.