The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
69. When Cancer Strikes: Hope, Treatment Options, and Staying Grounded with Dr. Stephen P. Anthony, Oncology/Hematology Specialist
"You have cancer." These three words instantly transform everything, especially for a parent with young children. In this deeply moving episode, we address a raw question from Amber, a 42-year-old mother of four who has just received a breast cancer diagnosis and finds herself paralyzed by fear and conflicting advice.
Leading oncologist Dr. Stephen Anthony joins us to provide clarity through the chaos, bringing 30 years of clinical experience and extraordinary compassion to this crucial conversation. Dr. Anthony shares revolutionary insights about modern cancer treatment approaches that offer more hope than ever before, explaining how precision medicine and genomic profiling can increase treatment success rates from 15% to an astonishing 60%.
Beyond the medical facts, Dr. Anthony offers profound wisdom on the emotional journey, defining hope as "a spiritual quality based on a relationship with God" while optimism comes from medical evidence. This distinction becomes a guiding light for anyone facing difficult health decisions. The conversation delves into practical strategies for navigating the overwhelming flood of information—both helpful and harmful—that accompanies a serious diagnosis.
Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Jeff shares the story of a patient who, when faced with limited time, chose to prioritize relationships over career, finding peace in his final days by "living in the now." This episode isn't just for those facing cancer—it's for anyone who needs reminding that in life's most challenging moments, being present and connected to those we love matters most.
Have questions about health challenges in your own life? Email us at trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com and join our community seeking connection, healing, and a way forward through life's toughest moments.
Questions? Contact us at trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, tricia Jamieson, a board-certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into a tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you. Welcome, wellness warriors, to another episode of the Q&A Files. I'm your host, tricia Jamieson, a functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner and a life coach, and I'm here with my amazing co-host, dr Jeff Jamieson, a board-certified family physician. Hello, dr Jeff.
Speaker 2:Hello, How's it going everybody?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so glad to have him here. Well, today's episode is going to be both powerful and personal. We're responding to a very raw and emotional question from a mom who has just been told she has cancer a moment that changes everything. While Tony Overbay won't be joining us today, we're honored to have a remarkable guest with us, someone whose experience and heart are exactly what this conversation calls for. Whose experience and heart are exactly what this conversation calls for, and I'm super excited to introduce our guest, dr Stephen P Anthony, who is the Senior Vice President of Clinical Development for Halea Therapeutics and the Chief Medical Officer for New Wave Pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 1:He brings over 30 years of clinical experience in hematology and oncology drug development and has worked in academic, private and industry sectors. He's also a leading expert in precision medicine, with a deep understanding of genomic mechanisms of disease. Despite his demanding research roles, dr Anthony still chooses to see patients, demonstrating his heart and humanity behind his work. Dr Anthony received his medical degree from the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. He completed his internal medicine residency at Hahnemann University Hospital and finished his fellowship in hematology and oncology at Dartmouth. He also served as a flight surgeon during the Gulf War with the United States Air Force. Dr Steve Anthony is a very respected physician and a great colleague of Dr Jeff's. Dr Anthony, we're so honored to have you here with us today, and welcome to our show.
Speaker 3:Delighted to be here and happy to answer questions.
Speaker 2:We're really excited to have you with us.
Speaker 2:And just for our listeners. Dr Anthony and I have been friends for gosh 15 or 20 years and we've worked together on multiple patients in clinical settings and I find him one of my greatest resources when it comes to hematology, oncology. And there are oftentimes, even this week, that I've sent him questions about hey, I got this person and here are these labs, what do I do? And he's been so kind and generous to be able to help me through a lot of difficult questions. So we're here for another one.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this is going to be great, but one of the things that we like to start off our shows are celebrations, so we're going to have Jeff start. But one of the things that we like to start off our shows are celebrations, so we're going to have Jeff start first. But we just want to celebrate what's going well in our life, things that we're looking forward to.
Speaker 2:What are some celebrations you both, gentlemen, have? Well, you know, it's funny because I was thinking about this, because I knew this was going to happen, happen, and I kind of just did it because I'm really thankful and grateful for my friendship and collegial relationship with Dr Anthony. Steve and I, again, have been friends for a long time.
Speaker 2:We have lunch together often and we get to spend time talking about life and things, yeah, when he's in town, and it's just been a wonderful and uplifting relationship in my life and so I'm very grateful for Steve Anthony for me.
Speaker 1:Oh, fantastic. Steve, would you like to share a celebration you have?
Speaker 3:Well, certainly I can echo the same sentiment. Certainly, working with Dr Jamison has been great. You're such an astute physician. I love how you take time with patients. You ask the right questions. A lot of physicians don't ask the right questions. You clearly do, and you know it's great. I so enjoy the professional relationship, the personal relationship. You know it's been a real blessing in my life and I think every day that I wake up and I have good health, I really count that as a blessing, because you know what, just like this moment we're about to talk about, you know your world can get upended at any moment. We don't think that. We probably should.
Speaker 3:And I really start off with the blessing of the day to be that I'm alive and well and here to serve another day.
Speaker 2:That's right. Thank you, steve, that's right. Thank you, steve, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, and my celebration is not about medicine, but it is about family, and next week we're going to be going to Disneyland with many of our grandchildren and our children, and so we're meeting them there and we're going to spend a week and we're super excited. It'll be super fun.
Speaker 2:It will be fun.
Speaker 1:All right. So before we dive in today's listener question, I'd love to give our audience a chance to get to know the person behind the powerful credentials. Dr Anthony, out of all the roles you've held physician, researcher, military officer, innovator what has been the most meaningful or formative part of your journey?
Speaker 3:that's a great question. Um, outside of being a dad, it's hard to top that, but I think you know what, professionally, I think you know every role honestly just leads into the next role, right? So whether I was in private practice or whether I was in academic practice, there was always this background of research and it always was driving me to say we need better drugs. And then the opportunity came up to be in industry. More often than not and that occurred almost eight years ago now and I have to say that that's been probably one of the more special aspects of my career, because it blends all of that clinical background that I've had for over 25 years into what I now need to do at a very different level. And if I didn't have that hybrid experience, if I was just a physician, scientist or something like that, I think it would maybe be less impactful.
Speaker 1:I love that Very profound.
Speaker 2:And the interesting thing to me is how that plays out in the way he coaches people along the way like me, who need help, and I just appreciate his vast experience. Dr Anthony is very likely one of the brightest humans I know. And I have enjoyed being able to be the recipient of his wisdom, and so what an honor we have to be here with him.
Speaker 1:Well, and I also love the first thing he said is that outside of being a dad, I almost actually put dad in there, but I knew you'd probably say that first. But I mean, that just shows who you are, so I love that part. Yeah, thank you. So is there a particular patient or experience that changed the way you practice medicine or how you approach healing?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question. I think there are a number of cases. That's a great question. I think there are a number of cases. I remember, in particular, being quite moved by a patient who had a traumatic injury when I was a resident, and in fact it was terrible. Her former husband ran her over with a car.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh On purpose.
Speaker 3:Yes, on purpose, fractures her pelvis and everything else and it was probably one of the first patients that I really had a chance to maybe know a little bit more personally because I was rounding on her every day and we had a chance to have dialogue Probably one of the first patients I prayed with in the hospital, and I think it was really them that it took the humanity of disease at a deeper level.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. It was all of a sudden, it was like you know, all right, this is a human, this is a crisis, this is how we're going to help them out, this is how we're going to go forward. And I think, equally, during the same time, during my residency, I was exposed to hematology and oncology patients and I think, honestly, what humbled me was that these people were dealing with incredible life-threatening diseases and yet the spirit of most of them was exceptional and I thought the people treating them were exceptional and I thought, boy, what a perfect intersection. Right, you've got a life in a crisis, you've got people, for the most part, who are kind of looking at life a bit differently because of the crisis, and then you have people with the gifts from God being able to come in and really try to help intervene. So really a perfect intersection of life.
Speaker 1:A gift from God. I love that, because I love how you integrate faith into your practice and how important and meaningful that is for the patient too, and that you prayed with her. Wow, that's so powerful. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3:Of course.
Speaker 1:So you made time to continue seeing patients even with a full schedule in your research career.
Speaker 3:What keeps you grounded in direct patient care. I enjoy it, you know. I mean, I think as a matter of fact I would say I enjoy it even more since I'm not doing it full time Because it's a real opportunity to get in and be with the patient, probably give even a little bit more than what I did when I was seeing them on a daily basis, you know. So it's to me again. It just it makes that connection of what we're doing so much more real, right, and when I'm seeing patients whose diseases are unfortunately marching ahead, it's a humble reminder of where we need to go, you know, and if you're not seeing patients, if you're not interacting at that level, you know you do get a little disconnected.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely, jeff. Do you have anything to add to that?
Speaker 2:Oh my, how do you stay grounded.
Speaker 2:You know, I think for me, my immersion in patient care, the way that I stay grounded, is to get out of it a little bit.
Speaker 2:And the way I stay grounded is to be able to extract myself from the day-to-day problems of each of the patients, because it really can be overwhelming. And when I'm seeing, you know, 30 people a day and they have varied good and bad problems going on sometimes for me I've got to get into a place where I can remember my faith, I can remember my family and I can remember to take care of myself.
Speaker 2:And and those are those are hard things to do when you're immersed in caring for others. So much so for me I you know we've talked about in this podcast other times that I I love to spend time with my family and the fact that we're going to Disneyland for a week. That'll be a great time for me to just sort of unplug. Also, I love to even for an hour or so here and there to just get up in the air in an airplane and just take a God's eye view of things and just thank my maker for the beauty around me and then I can dive right back into and become the physician and the confidant to people and the healer that otherwise it's necessary for me to do.
Speaker 1:And I can attest to that. When he's super stressed and then he gets out, especially, it can go five for not very long. He just comes back such a different person and so everyone needs that, everyone needs that out, whatever that is for you. So you've been at the forefront of precision medicine. Is there a breakthrough or current project you're especially excited about, and what could it mean for future treatment options? You?
Speaker 3:know.
Speaker 3:I think we're starting to look at genomics differently.
Speaker 3:We've always we've had genomics for decades now, but the precision of which we can look at things is radically changing how we're going after diseases.
Speaker 3:It's apparent that if you carry bad genes, that you're at risk for developing disease, but not everyone who carries those bad genes actually develops disease. So the question is is that what is special about those people that protects them from developing the disease? And that's an area of therapeutics that we're starting to look at, which is really interesting. And unless you have the tools where you're looking at very large families and you're looking at them over generations, ideally with genomic information you can really begin to pick apart what are those protective effects. So, rather than just dealing with the end result of the disease, can we actually now make the next leap forward, which is trying to prevent disease from occurring, not only in at-risk people, but could it help with people who already have established disease? Could you reverse the disease by intervening, so we now have the ability to develop drugs to mimic what the body can do in those circumstances? So it really is. It really is going after disease earlier rather than chasing the disease that's established.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that because so many diseases that we work with as physicians. The problem is that you know the cat's out of the bag by the time we get a hold of it, and when we do, it's a losing battle in a lot of ways, and I just appreciate the almost preventative nature of what you're doing now.
Speaker 1:Right, Right, yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wow. It's way over my head. I'm looking into those things at this point, but I just really enjoy hearing about the new advances. It's really fun.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's just incredible to think that there's something like that out there that could help people hopefully in the near future, and so, wow, that is just so great to know. Thank you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're welcome. Great to know.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That's awesome For listeners who may not fully understand the field. Can you explain what makes hematology and oncology such a unique and challenging area of medicine?
Speaker 3:Great question. So hematology is the study of blood, and it can be both benign diseases, which means that they're not cancer, or it can be true cancers of the blood system, and so a benign hematology condition is anemia. Low blood Could be something simple. Dr Jamison often treats iron deficiency anemia or B12 deficiency or Foley deficiency, or you could have something like a leukemia, and leukemias can either be acute, which make people very sick and can be difficult to recover, or they can be chronic, which you can live with for years, if not decades. So that's hematology, and oncology is basically the spectrum of cancer. So it can be early cancer or it can be established cancer. So in the case of today, what we'll be talking about later is you can either have a non-invasive breast cancer, which means it has not got out of the cells, or you can have an invasive breast cancer, and so we deal with the whole spectrum of anything that is cancer-producing. Or for me, and then as a medical oncologist, we don't deal with the surgery, we don't deal with the radiation, but we deal with the medications that we prescribe, which could be chemotherapy, which everyone dreads, but nowadays it's really a bunch of drugs that necessarily aren't there.
Speaker 3:So there are many types of chemotherapy and people always think of chemotherapy as the intravenous stuff that just makes you deathly ill.
Speaker 3:Fortunately, that's less of the case nowadays because of supportive medications, but really we talk about any type of drug that can target a cancer, whether it's blocking hormones, which we often use in breast cancer or prostate cancer, or if it's blocking a specific pathway. We were talking about genomics earlier, and through genomics we've been able to detect certain susceptibilities for certain cancers. So, for instance, there's something called chronic myeloid leukemia, or CML, and it turns out that it's one of the few blood cancers that is addicted to a specific bad gene called BCR-ABL, and we actually have drugs that target just BCR-ABL and for the most part, outside of giving a little bit of maybe nausea or some loose stools, they're exceptionally well-tolerated and we have a whole spectrum of pills now that we can prescribe to people that aren't the intensive chemotherapy that people think. So the thing is is we have a lot of options on how to help patients out. It's a matter of trying to match the right drug or the combination of drugs that the patient needs at that time.
Speaker 2:You know, I think one of the things that people are so concerned about is that chemotherapy thing, and when people hear chemotherapy they immediately think hair falling out, nausea, vomiting, weight loss and feeling worse than the cancer was making them feel. And the nice thing is that that is not the case nearly so much anymore although it still does happen, depending on the type of cancer and the treatment necessary. I love how it's become more pinpointed and directed rather than here.
Speaker 2:We're going to make all of you sick just to try and get rid of a few sick cells.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree.
Speaker 3:Well, our supportive care drugs are much better than what we had previously and that makes a huge difference. You know, and like everything in life, is risk to benefit? Right, we all drive cars, but we know about 50,000 people died last year, right, so we all wear our seatbelts. Hopefully, we pay attention to the rules of the road and we usually get to our destination safely. And it's the same thing with chemotherapy. It's like, okay, well, we're going to have to pay attention to some rules, we're going to put on our seatbelts, we're going to take the right stuff in advance and we should get to our destination safely. So I think that we can remove a lot of the scare with terms, because it's like everything, if people have a bad experience, you're more likely to hear about it than a good experience, and that's unfortunate, but certainly that's what happens.
Speaker 2:It's human nature, though they're going to focus on the negatives. And how many times have we heard that a person has to hear like 10 times the number of positives, even though they hear one negative about themselves?
Speaker 1:they're going to focus on that and not the hundred positive things about themselves that's right well and it's just, but it's such a negative experience and so I think that that's very loud for a lot of people too right well, I'm just talking about those that go through the chemotherapy and they do have the hair loss and the nausea and the vomiting I mean. So that is very loud.
Speaker 3:So you hear about those stories.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome, thank you. On a more personal note, we love spotlighting the human side of our guests and we'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your family. How has your career shaped, or been shaped, by your role as a husband, a father and a grandfather?
Speaker 3:So it's been great. It's a balancing act. I don't admit that I've always done it perfectly, but the good news is that who does? Yeah, the good news is, I feel that the kids have felt that I was there consistently throughout the school years and afterwards and that there continues to be a really strong relationship. I think they see medicine as something that's very good but very demanding, and I think they also look at how I try to balance things. You know it's not just all medicine. You know I have plenty of outside interests that keep me well occupied, and whether those are things with the kids they're now older it's kind of fun to do things with them rather than taking them. Grandkids are a little bit different, you know, but it's been a real balancing act. But I think it's been good and I think the family has grown to appreciate what medicine means and I think certainly, as they get older, they certainly understand medicine a lot better. It's harder when you're a kid, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and not understanding the demands that dad has is sometimes confusing to children. So as they grow older they're able to kind of grasp that concept a little bit more. You know dad's just not there, why he missed my baseball game, why Birthday parties, why, and then, as they grow older, they recognize and appreciate so much more of what he does. What you both do yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for sharing the personal side of you. I think that's always so important too, and I think a lot of times, even with physicians, it's so imperative to feel that side of the profession, because a lot of times you don't feel that from a lot of physicians, and so I just I love that and you're so personable anyway, and I just wanted to share a little bit more about your family. It's clear you both bring expertise and heart into the space you're both in, and when Jeff talked about you're the most brilliant person. I think that you both are quite brilliant in what you do specifically. So I'm so grateful to have you both here and that's exactly why we're bringing Dr Anthony to this next question, and it comes from a listener and her name is Amber, and it's an incredibly real and vulnerable question. She says. My name is Amber, I'm 42 years old and I'm a mom to four beautiful kids, all still at home.
Speaker 1:Just a few days ago, I heard the words no one ever wants to hear you have breast cancer. Everything in my world shifted in that moment. I'm scared scared for my kids, scared for my future, scared for making the wrong choice. I keep picturing my children at their milestones graduations, weddings and wondering if I'm ever going to be there and, honestly, the fear isn't just about the cancer. It's also about the treatment. I don't want to become so sick from chemo or radiation that I lose who I am before I even get a chance to fight.
Speaker 1:Now, everything and everyone I turn to people are giving me advice. Some say stick with traditional medicine. Others tell me to go to Mexico, try the natural cures. It's overwhelming, it's confusing and every minute that passes I feel the pressure mounting like time is slipping through my fingers. I feel overwhelmed and lost. I don't want to waste precious time chasing treatments that don't work, but I also don't want to endure needless suffering.
Speaker 1:If there are better options out there, how do I even begin to figure out the right path for me? How can someone like me scared, overwhelmed and desperately trying to make the best decision for herself and her family navigate all this and find real hope and real healing. First of all, amber, thank you so much for being willing to share such a raw and vulnerable part of your story. Your question is so very powerful and I know it speaks to the heart of countless others. So, dr Anthony, I can only imagine how many ambers you've sat with over the years. When someone receives a diagnosis like this, especially as a mother, what's the first thing you want them to know? And, jeff, you can answer that question as well, because I know, know you've had patients that you've also had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have these first conversations fairly often.
Speaker 1:Right, so both of you please share.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, steve, you've got the depth.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting. I always try to remember that the word fear is an acronym for false evidence appearing real, and I think that is, for me, grounding. Now, part of that's because of faith. Right, we know where our hope is. And people will always say Dr Anthony, give me some hope. And I say well, I can tell you this that I define hope as a spiritual quality based upon a relationship with God.
Speaker 1:I love that. When you say that again, just repeat that that is so good.
Speaker 3:So hope is a spiritual quality that's based upon a relationship with God, and optimism is that incredible human quality that believes we can overcome anything in front of us. So to me, I can never give hope. It's a spiritual relationship. I can be optimistic with you, but my hope always has to remain in God.
Speaker 3:And cancer is such a scary word, it disarms you. I mean you think, look, I've lost family and friends due to cancer. And it's never easy. Even as an oncologist or a hematologist it's never easy to go through that process. But there's one thing that I do know, and that is everyone's journey is so individual. Everyone's journey is so individual, and I look at the opportunity to meet the patient as to really try to focus on what their stage is, because stage one breast cancer is markedly different than stage four. Stage four means it's spread. Stage one means it's localized. Stage two means it's localized. Even three means that it's advanced, but it's's localized. Stage two means it's localized. Even three means that it's advanced, but it's still localized. So understanding the stage helps put the context of what are we really dealing with. And then, once we even know simple things like the stage and we have a lot of tools to help us accurately stage people with cancer, and that includes imaging, blood work and so forth. Once we know that, then we can outline a treatment course. And the treatment course is in most cases, almost always multidisciplinary, which means that we're going to potentially have a surgeon, we're going to have someone like myself, we're going to have someone like a radiation oncologist, because there's no one-stop shopping typically with cancer. Now, if it's a very early cancer, it may only need surgery, but then there would be surveillance and that's where someone like Dr Jameson or myself comes in as part of the surveillance. If it's a little bit more advanced, then yes, I may need to step in, or we may need radiation, and someone like myself. Then, yes, I may need to step in, or we may need radiation, and some of them like myself.
Speaker 3:And the one thing I tell people about traditional medicine, because there's a lot of great antidotes out there and people will say, look, you know I took hydrogen peroxide and it killed the cancer and you know what. That's a great story. I like that story actually myself. But you know what, at least the medicines I give people, I can tell you what the actual responses are, and it's not going to be 100%, but at least it's not going to be antidote and I'm going to have the benefit of other people who have done clinical research, other patients who, through, hopefully, altruism, where they were motivated, not just for themselves but for the greater good of unanimity, to participate in a trial to help identify what is the best therapy. And so, even though traditional medicine has some failures, at least you know that outright.
Speaker 3:You know, if I go back to the hydrogen peroxide, it's not like I can tell people why. I read a paper and there were a thousand people treated with it and you know, maybe it was two out of the thousand responded. But if the medicine I'm giving you works in 500 out of a thousand, it probably makes sense to take that treatment over something that rarely works, to take that treatment over something that rarely works. So it's all a matter of information and I think one of the biggest things for patients is to really have that conversation with their oncologist. And what does that conversation feel like? And then it never hurts to get a second opinion.
Speaker 3:Dr Jamison knows better than I do. It's always a matter of trying to find the personality as well as the expertise. And you know what? Sometimes the expertise is not local, and it even boils down to simple things. I know we're talking about breast cancer, but for years people would ask me about bone marrow transplants in the local area. For years people would ask me about bone marrow transplants in the local area and I'd say, yes, you can get it done here locally. But the institution that did the very first bone marrow transplant in the world is four hours away.
Speaker 3:I would go to someone who has 50 years of experience versus someone who has 10. So it's a matter of understanding what your resources are within the community, and there's a lot of well-intentioned people out there. But the one good thing about traditional medicine is at least we know what it brings and you also have the opportunity to use newer drugs, and with these other alternatives it's really less of an unknown. And I think that's the big worry. And when she talks about I don't want to waste time, you know what I mean. It's I hear you. And, by the way, wait is a four letter word to a cancer patient. So we don't want people to wait. Okay, we don't want people to waste time, right, but we want them to have effective use of time, and so it's important to begin to make that journey. But that journey is going to have a number of steps, and it starts with getting information. That's foundational in how you feel that. I love that, yeah.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that too, dr Anthony. I love the way you look at having understanding, information and experience and using all of those together to form a treatment plan.
Speaker 1:And keeping that optimism in place too. I love that as well.
Speaker 2:You know the hard part. You know there's a lot of alternative therapies out there which are and you bring up the word anecdotal or it's an anecdote and that's the thing that is. The big difference is you don't get in the anecdotal therapies any real hard data that says, yes, this is really helpful because and this is where it's working. But the hard part I find for a lot of people in the lay population they look at this as well. My grandfather had this problem and he went through chemotherapy and it was terrible and he died anyway.
Speaker 2:Or they hear this that somebody went to Mexico and had a red light therapy for 13 weeks and spent $15,000 on their therapy plus and they got spa treatments while they were there and and they feel like this is the way to go. And I just don't have a good answer as far as to tell them what they can expect from things like that. But I think the one thing that you do get with that is that it improves their optimism and when a person's optimism is improved and they think they're going to do better, they often will for a time. You know the whole placebo effect thing and sometimes it's not. I just don't even know.
Speaker 1:So what's the first thing you would share with her? What would you want her to know?
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing I'd want to share with her is that there's great people with good treatment and have good reasons to get a hold of this quickly. And if you have an invasive you know adductor carcinoma of the breast that often moves quickly and you don't want to wait around and say, well, you know, I'm going to try this treatment or that treatment and hope for the best, because you just might be behind the eight ball until yet and then you really have to get aggressive, and I don't know that I would do that, I, you know. It really just comes down to a person's comfort level and what they feel like they can handle. But I think they need to have lots of information before they make a choice.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's perfect.
Speaker 2:Thank you and I want them to have the best experts involved as well.
Speaker 1:Definitely, definitely so. Amber talks about being flooded with advice, from traditional medicine to natural cures in Mexico. So how can someone begin to sort through all the noise and find a path that's right for them?
Speaker 3:Well, that's a challenge, right, and I think it boils down to what do you really believe is generating that information for you? So, for instance, I think all of us would agree that information is power. And the power that you get from information is to be able to make a rational decision about something, and you know, sometimes panic will cause us to make irrational decisions.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But this is not about panicking. This is about taking information and hearing. Is it consistent? And I would say the one thing about alternative therapies, which are intriguing and I think we need to continue to explore, is that you won't hear the guidance on alternative therapies consistently expressed or explained, or even given from one group to another group to another group, whereas if you look at traditional medicine, it's typically offered consistently, maybe styles a little bit differently, but it's going to be offered consistently because we know that's what works. And so if you have something that you're not sure about and everyone's given it a little bit different, which is the problem with alternative medicine then that's, I think, where it gets a little bit scary. And I think the other bigger thing is who supports you. If your family is local, I think you would want to get therapy local, to be supported by your family.
Speaker 1:Right, and you need that at that time for sure.
Speaker 3:You need that at that time. Yeah, you need all of those resources, whether it's family, whether it's friends, whether it's church, whatever is supporting you. You need that community to support you on this journey. But I think you have a great term. You talk about noise and there is a lot of noise and I think, again, we're all supposed to be vehicles of the gifts that God gets us and hopefully we're using those in an honest way and I know, at least with what we do in traditional medicine, I feel that it is an honest representation of what he has to offer us and to me, there's a lot of grounding that has to go back in faith.
Speaker 2:So agree I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I love that. Okay, so you specialize in precision medicine. Could you share more on how that personalized approach based on genomics can influence cancer treatment options today?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. So I mean, like in this person we're talking about, we'll have to need BRCA testing, which are the genes that are susceptible to cancer, and in the old days we did that because it would affect family members, but now we actually have therapies that are directed for those. But procedure medicine really has its stay in diseases in which there's no standard of care for either second, third or fourth line therapy. So in my previous practice probably about a third of it was second opinions and people would often come and say I have no options and to me we would use genomic profiling, which we did on the cancer cells that were in them. We would take a sample, usually through interventional radiology, send it off to a reference lab and there are numbers, there are a number of them that are out there now and we would get back the genomic details and that would tell us if there was a targeted therapy that we could use for those people.
Speaker 3:And you know what? That's actually a great way to go, because if you were to take the earliest type of clinical trials that means a drug that's never been tested in a cancer patient your chance of success is about 10 to 15 percent% If you use genomic profiling, that number could maybe go as high as up to 60%, or even higher, oh my goodness. So there's real opportunities to help patients. You just need the information. You'd be surprised how many people just don't have that information.
Speaker 2:And then what to do with that information.
Speaker 1:Well, and do you think that it's the physician that's not giving the information? Do you feel like I mean? What is the reason that the patient's not getting that information?
Speaker 3:Well, you have to be knowledgeable about it, right. You have to know that it exists. You have to know how to use it, right.
Speaker 1:The doctor needs to know okay.
Speaker 3:I mean you get back a 20 page report. Who wants to read that? You know? But you know it's part of the commitment to help the patients, right? So I spend part of my time counseling other physicians, usually actually around the world, on how to interpret these genomic tests so they can help make better decisions for their patients. But it's a commitment and a lot of physicians don't want to do it. It's too much time. It's sad to say that, but it is yeah physicians don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:It's too much time. It's sad to say that, but it is. Yeah, I can relate to the pressures that physicians face on a day-to-day basis trying to absorb the information necessary to be knowledgeable in these areas, and I can understand also why it's really important to make sure that you're connected with people who have actually gone through the training and know how to look. They know what they're looking for, and one of the things that I mean I get reports all day long reports from ERs, reports from specialists, reports from this and that and the other, and after you digest enough reports, you know where to look for what you're looking for, and so that's one of the cool things I imagine that you can do when you're looking at a genomic report is to go, okay, this person has this type of cancer, I want to see how this particular gene reacted, and you can focus in in that 20-page report down to one or two pages probably, and you probably that's all you really need, but you have to digest enough of them to be able to know where you're looking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree. I agree, Experience counts.
Speaker 2:Yep, and it's hard to find. Whew, how do you even find the right people? And that's a thing that I'm fortunate to have resources like Dr Anthony to be able to when I'm confronted with a person that has a new cancer, whether and I see them all whether it's breast cancer or brain cancer or liver cancer you name it, I'm often the person who finds it first somehow, and so I've got to have kind of a broad spectrum of what do you do with these generally?
Speaker 1:Now.
Speaker 2:I cannot do it to the level that Dr Anthony does, and I would never even want to try.
Speaker 2:But you're not supposed to would never even want to try but to have people like Dr Anthony. But fortunately for me, I have people like Dr Anthony. So when I find this and I usually immediately bring a person in as absolutely fast as I can and talk to them in person, and before then I've done some homework to be able to say, okay, this is the kind of cancer you have. These are likely the things you have to expect. Here's who I'm going to set you up with so that you can get the best care possible. So I've got an idea of what I'm doing before I show up with the patient there. I don't know, what do you think we should do? Patient? That's part of doing a good job for a person is doing your homework.
Speaker 1:And that's what family practice does is they set up those physicians? They answer the questions that they can and I love that. And I've heard so many times from your patients, jeff, what you've done for them and how you've been able to take care of them and you've been able to navigate that path for them that has once been so scary, how you've been able to take care of them and you've been able to navigate that path for them. That has once been so scary, and you've been able to fill in those gaps and fill in that information for them. So I think that that's just really awesome.
Speaker 2:One of the things, though, is that this is just you know. I think Dr Anthony and I sharea responsibility as physicians to do the best that we can with the knowledge that we have and to be able to find new knowledge as it becomes available and maybe we even discover it.
Speaker 2:Found some treatments that are basically specific to me, that other people don't do, just because I found them to be successful, and so in that way it's anecdotal to me, but they do seem to work on a great basis. But when you're dealing with a lot of different people with cancer, having a really good sense of what works in this situation and what the first-line treatments are, that is something I depend on Dr Anthony and his colleagues to be the point people on.
Speaker 1:So do you both feel like cancer has increased dramatically in the last decade?
Speaker 3:I think, so, yeah, I think we're aware of earlier cancers because of screening. Yeah, that's, true I think mortality is down, so it tells me that we're making an impact. But I think you have people like Dr Jameis out there doing screenings that we weren't doing and we're picking up things.
Speaker 2:So that's good news because it may be going up, but it's earlier stage cancers and that's a good news because it may be going up, but it's earlier stage cancers and I think that's a good thing, and it's done during a thing called an adult wellness visit. The adult wellness visit is a lot of times poo-pooed by patients thinking, oh, this is a waste of time, I don't really need to do that, I've already had lab work done here or there and so I don't need to do it. But what happens is this is a particular time where we can actually go through and look at each system and decide if there are screening tests that they have or have not done to make sure that their chances of cancer, osteoporosis, other things that are continually causing problems for people that we can get in front of them before. They're a big deal and they cost the patient both time, money and pain.
Speaker 1:Well, and Dr Anthony just shared that he's got some testing, that he's a wellness check, that he's going in for himself personally, and so I think even physicians need to make sure that they're taking care of themselves and getting in and being screened, because sometimes you think that you're good, but you need to remember that you're still human and you run into problems too, and I think that so often patients take precedence, family takes precedence and oftentimes you do not take care of yourself. So I was so glad to hear, dr Anthony, that you've got that taken care of, because there's some things that Jeff has been putting off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's time for some stuff for me.
Speaker 3:Well, I have a very good doctor, and I see him in the middle of the screen right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, Steve. Yeah, it is the case, though, that people need to do a good job with this and not to poo-poo their general physicals.
Speaker 1:Yes, listen to the doctors here.
Speaker 2:The other thing that's interesting I have to just quickly point out is that physicals like this are not meant for taking care of acute problems.
Speaker 2:A lot of people come in with a laundry list that a physical is where you fix all the problems that are going on right now. That's not their purpose. Their purpose is to make sure that your generalized screening tests are taken care of and that you can be rescheduled for acute issues. It's kind of like if you go to the dentist for a cleaning, the dentist is not going to take care of a cavity right then and there, even if they find it. So you think of it like going in for a cleaning at the dentist and then you get rescheduled for other things like that. Yeah, that's a smart analogy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really good point. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, okay, so Amber's fear isn't just about cancer, it's about the toll of the treatment, and I think we talked about that early on that a lot of people are afraid of that. So what are some of the less aggressive or newer treatment approaches that are offering hope today?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it depends upon the stage of the cancer, and I think with a lot of cancers, they can be treated with surgery and if it's a matter of simple surgery, sometimes that's all that's needed.
Speaker 3:Sometimes you need surgery plus a little bit of radiation, depending upon if you want to preserve the breast. Sometimes, if you have the surgery and radiation, sometimes we need to give anti-hormones to prevent the cancer from coming back, and nowadays we have a genomic tool for breast cancer patients where we can actually get a score and tell them if they actually need chemotherapy. You know, 25 years ago we over-treated everyone with breast cancer.
Speaker 3:You came in and everyone got big-gun chemotherapy and we knew we were over-treating people but we had no idea of how to help those patients. And then some very brilliant people, especially in Europe, started looking at genomic profiles, and there are big companies here in the US looked at genomic profiles and then followed those patients for years, if not decades, to say would the cancer come back? And said, well, if you have this genomic risk versus this genomic risk, these people are so low they'll never benefit from chemotherapy. So now we actually have tools to help Amber and other patients and it's not just a random decision, it's a really well-informed decision. So if we come back and we have a genomic tool that says, hey, your risk of the cancer coming back in 10 years is 32%, and by giving you this treatment we're going to reduce it to maybe less than 15% or even more, then the patient can make an informed decision.
Speaker 3:So the good news is we are using some of those genomic tools now to really help inform our decisions.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's so helpful. That's got to be really helpful for Amber to be able to. If she can get to the right people that can get the right information and then use that information to tailor make a treatment for her, then her odds of survival well are pretty good, I agree.
Speaker 1:And she'll be able to hit those milestones with her children and grandchildren. I love that so good. How can patients advocate for themselves in a medical setting, especially when they feel scared and overwhelmed?
Speaker 3:Well, write questions down, bring people with you, try to do some reasonable information off the internet if you can. As we always say, don't confuse your Google search with the medical degree Great. But I think if you have someone with you, if you're writing questions down, that really goes a long way to really understanding next steps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I think that it really comes down to being personally well-informed about what's going on with you, and that's doing your own research and internet searches can be helpful Talking with other people. There's multiple chat boards and communities in cancer that have got lots of things that you can help from. They can also be incredibly damaging too, because everybody thinks that everybody else's cancer is just like theirs and if you don't do it like you did, you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:So, there's misinformation as well. So you have to take those kinds of non-professional places, take it with a grain of salt, so making sure that you understand your source of your information and judge its credibility.
Speaker 1:And then also making sure.
Speaker 2:I love Dr Anthony's discussion about making sure, when you go to the doctor, that you bring people with you. One person is going to hear one thing, another person is going to hear another. Having somebody that takes notes and then you can compare notes you know afterward very helpful and it will help generate new questions for next time and then bring them with you.
Speaker 1:What do you think about recording? You know if they brought their phone and recorded the office visit. Is that something that you'd recommend or not?
Speaker 3:That's fine, I mean, I'm never opposed to it. I mean, you know what I'm saying. If it helps, if it's a tool for them to help review later, yeah, no, not a problem.
Speaker 2:I'm similar with that. I'm similar with that. I think that there are also some upcoming tools, that a lot of our interactions are going to be recorded in the office to make sure that the office conversation is accurately represented in the record as well. So there are some things coming up on that.
Speaker 1:Wow, there you go, okay. So what kind of emotional and mental health support do you wish more women had access to in those early stages of diagnosis?
Speaker 3:Well, I think for me it really is about how do you surround yourself with truly family, friends and church. Those are going to be where your resources are going to lie. I think to Jeff's point. There are a lot of other good resources, but you do have to be careful with those. But, I think that, honestly, that small group is going to give you the best support because those people are going to know you best and I don't think there's any substitution for it.
Speaker 2:I think that's fantastic. Any other thoughts with that, jeff? And if you've got a naysayer in there or somebody that is basically toxic to your process, make sure that you choose wisely in who those people are, and there are a lot of very opinionated people when it comes to cancer treatment. So opinions are only as good as what you pay for them honestly, and sometimes the free ones are not very good.
Speaker 1:Excellent.
Speaker 2:Good point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. How do you balance scientific truth with emotional reassurance? What role do mindset and faith play in healing?
Speaker 2:Isn't she good at this oh my gosh. These questions Wow Great job.
Speaker 3:Oh, great questions.
Speaker 1:How good.
Speaker 3:Well, again, I think mindset all goes to how we were raised, how we were educated and what our environment, how that responds to us and to me.
Speaker 3:I think all of that again goes back to faith. I mean, you know, if, in the absence of faith, you're going to depend upon this world and the world's going to disappoint you, in the presence of faith you're still going to try to depend on the world, it's still going to disappoint you, but you know there's a higher calling and a higher purpose, so it matters less. So to me it's not the matter of I'm going to be positive and defeat this cancer. It's going to be. I'm going to live in this moment and I'm going to continue to stay grounded in what helps me face the day-to-day reality. I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that, so, so good.
Speaker 2:You know, and the grounded piece is so important. Don't you think, tricia? Absolutely, you have, and the grounded piece is so important.
Speaker 1:Don't you think, tricia? Absolutely. You have to stay grounded. I think that's just so spot on, so excellent. Last question If Amber were sitting across from you right now, not as a case file, but as a mother, what would you say to her heart, both of you?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I'd echo on what we've already said was make sure your people are close, make sure that you have your relationships intact, make sure that you are connected with your heart and with god and then make sure that, with those things intact, you can achieve whatever happens will be okay. Yeah, I think that's great, that's great.
Speaker 3:I think I would be echoing very similar sentiments, right, I would be saying the one thing about cancer is it reminds us that we're all finite.
Speaker 3:You know, life is a fatal disease, as we say, and you know. So you take that aspect and you might feel a little bit more alive about your surroundings because all of a sudden you're starting to think of those milestones with kids, as she alluded to, and that's great. That's a blessing that a lot of us don't think of because we always think tomorrow is going to automatically come. But then, just like Jack said, I would be saying all right, god has blessed us with gifts of medicine and opportunities through medicine, and we're going to stay grounded with him as we go through this journey, because we don't know what his will is, but we know that doing God's will is never passive, it's active, right, it's about responding to him, it's about going to see those doctors, it's about going to have those conversations, and to me I think that's the most important thing, because none of us guarantee the outcome. But at least if we feel like we're tracking his will in our lives, which is active, then I think we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me answer that question with a story, just a short story. I had a 58-year-old patient that was diagnosed we found a pancreatic cancer. Now, as you might know in the listening audience, pancreatic cancer is usually a bad diagnosis and that means that usually it can't or it isn't treated very well. The treatments are very difficult and it's usually very aggressive and causes some big damage for people and they often don't survive five years. So this gentleman had a cancer in a place where it looked like you would be able to do the extensive abdominal surgery that can remove it and give them a higher chance for survival. Well, they chose to do chemotherapy to try and shrink the tumor and then see that they could get to it better. They did that. It didn't work. It was infiltrated into a place where surgery was going to cause irreparable damage to the person, so surgery was not an option.
Speaker 2:So after going through these treatments and these options, he came back to me and said okay, here's my life, here's what's going on, what do you think I should do? And I said how are you set financially? And he goes I'm okay. And I said okay, are you working? He said, yes, I'm working right now. How is that contributing to the way that you're showing up for your family right now. Well, it kind of gets in the way. It's a busy job. I'm one of the principals in this business and it's a it's kind of a big deal, um, and if I'm working or not, I said, okay, you only have one more shot at this to spend time with your family. Take it, let the business go. You know, and I don't normally tell people to do things. Um, but this gentleman I said, you know you've got to take this time and go spend it with those you really really care about.
Speaker 2:So fortunately he did and he took that time and he lived in the moment and he lived for now and he cultivated his family relationships. He went on some bucket list trips that he wanted to do before. He couldn't do them anymore and then by the time he was ready to go or he was just probably a week away from passing away he came and saw me again and he said you know it's about the end, but I want to tell you how important it was for you to tell me that I needed to make sure I lived in now, to tell me that I needed to make sure I lived in now and that I have. I'm in a place where I'm happy with all the people. All my people are happy with me. I've enjoyed my life and if it ends today, I'm okay and it wasn't a week, and he was dead.
Speaker 2:And so so my my gift, that gift to me that he gave me, telling me that you know, live in the moment, make sure that you know your today is okay, make sure that you know the people that you love, that they know you love them, all of those things.
Speaker 1:I'm getting emotional about it.
Speaker 2:But all of those things are way more important than a job, a superficial something else. So just keeping those things in mind, Great advice.
Speaker 1:Joe, that is so beautiful and, just like Dr Anthony mentioned, that life is finite, you know.
Speaker 2:We're built to fall apart.
Speaker 1:We don't appreciate what that means until it comes down to that moment, and making those decisions are hard because you want to just keep going and doing the same thing that you've always done, but then recognizing that this is how much time I have, what do I want to do with it? So thank you so much for sharing that story, jeff, and I think that that's beautiful. I remember that. I remember that was really hard. So, anyway, wow, okay. So thank you, dr Anthony, your voice in this space is so needed. And thank you, dr Jeff, for your incredible insights as well.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed this, so thank you. Oh, yes, so much.
Speaker 1:And we all appreciate not only for what you both know yes, so much. And we all appreciate, not only for what you both know, but how much you both care. I mean it's so evident the care and compassion that you have for your patients and how badly you want to help them and help heal them, if possible. So I just love that for both of you and it's very, it's heavily felt.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's heavily felt. Thank you, yes, and if Amber and every other listener out there, whether you're facing a diagnosis or walking through another kind of storm, there is support for you and we hope this episode helped you feel seen, heard and a little more grounded. And for Amber, thank you so much for being raw and real with us and sending in your questions. I know that that was hard and we just wish you luck. We hope you the best and hope that this episode was informative for you. And before I close, I want to speak directly to the couples who might be facing a different kind of pain, the kind of pain that builds slowly over time. Maybe you're barely speaking, maybe the spark is gone, maybe it feels like you're more roommates than soulmates. I want you to hear this Love doesn't have to feel like a memory. It can be rebuilt. That's why I created my Healing Hearts program just for couples who are on the brink, who aren't sure if there's anything left to fight for. I believe there is, and if you're willing to take one brave step forward, I'll walk with you the rest of the way. This program is filled with proven tools, vulnerable conversations and powerful exercises built from decades of personal and professional experience, and it's designed to help you reconnect, not just with each other, but with the love that brought you together in the first place. So, no matter where you're starting from, there is hope. You're not alone and you don't have to figure this out by yourself. So if this is you, please reach out to me at Trisha Jamison Coaching at gmailcom and I'd love to help support you. And thank you again to Dr Anthony for joining us today. Again, your insights and expertise were incredible and you brought words that clarified such important topics, and we just appreciate your heart. And again for Amber and Jeff, you always bring so much to our conversations as well, and this just helped bring up so much very tender conversation that I truly believe that countless others needed to hear today. And to all of you listening, thank you for being part of this meaningful moment with us.
Speaker 1:If today's episode resonated with you, please don't forget to hit subscribe and leave us a review. It helps us grow this incredible community of people who are seeking connection, healing and a better a review. It helps us grow this incredible community of people who are seeking connection, healing and a better way forward, and please share this episode with someone who might be facing a hard decision, a medical diagnosis, or just needs to know they're not alone. Your story matters, your healing matters and we're right here with you. So if you have a question you'd like us to explore on a future episode, we love to hear from you. Please email us at trishajamesoncoaching at gmailcom. And remember, no matter how heavy things are and how heavy things feel, there's always a next step and there's always hope. We'll see you on the next episode. Goodbye everybody.
Speaker 2:Bye, thanks again. Thanks, steve.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to the Q& and A files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to Trisha Jamison coaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jameson signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
