The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
73. Beyond Color: Understanding Your Core Motivations with Kathy "Kat" Larson Executive from "The Hartman Color Code"
Trisha Jamison has been counting down the days to share this episode with you! She’s been using the Color Code for nearly two decades—in her marriage, with her family, and with clients—and now you get to see why she loves it so much. Get ready… this one’s a treat!
You know that moment when everything in you wants to snap, but something inside says, “Pause”? We’ve all been there. And in this eye-opening conversation with the incredible Kathy Larson—Managing Partner of Hartman Color Code—we learn how knowing your core motive can completely shift how you relate, lead, and love.
Kathy breaks down the four core colors that drive us:
❤️ Red – Power
💙 Blue – Intimacy
🤍 White – Peace
💛 Yellow – Fun
Unlike other personality tools that tell you what you do, the Color Code goes deeper—it tells you why. And that changes everything.
From a very relatable parenting story involving a drill left in the rain (oops!) to what happens when a 6’10” Blue husband tries to act like a Red, you’ll laugh, relate, and probably recognize yourself or someone you love.
Kathy also gets personal, sharing what it was like to grow up as a 92% Yellow who struggled with commitment—and how facing those challenges helped her step into leadership and become the steward of this life-changing system.
And yes… Jeff takes the test too—and the results spark some surprises and deep insight about exhaustion, identity, and living out of alignment with who we truly are.
We even dive into Kathy’s work with elite athletes and how understanding core motives helps them thrive—not just in competition, but in life.
Whether you’re navigating a tough relationship, managing a team, or just trying to figure yourself out, this episode will leave you feeling empowered, inspired, and more equipped to connect—with yourself and others.
Don’t miss Part Two next week—and be sure to take the Color Code assessment using our special listener discount!
You know those parenting moments when the tension is high and everything inside you wants to react and you find yourself just about to snap in two. But then something inside you whispers to pause, Because if you don't, you are going to regret what you're about to say or do. We had one of those moments at our house many years ago. It involved our teenage son, Chase, who, by the way, is a full-blown textbook yellow on the Hartman Color Coke scale. Chase is a carefree, happy-go-lucky and has truly never met a stranger. You always want him to be at every party, not because he plans anything, but because he is the party party. Not because he plans anything, but because he is the party. If there's music, he's dancing. If there's a game, he's narrating it with dramatic flair. He brings joy like it's his job and, honestly, the rest of us are just lucky to be on his payroll.
Trisha Jamison:Well, Chase had left a very expensive power drill outside in the rain. Jeff found it and was absolutely furious. He came storming into the kitchen face red, ready to launch into full-blown dad mode, and I said if you talk to him right now, it'll be about your anger and not about his accountability and the lesson will be lost. He looked at me and said so what do you expect me to do? I told him you've got to get on his map. What I meant was connect with him. Yellow to yellow, not red to yellow. Take him for a drive, Tell him some funny jokes, make him laugh, then casually ask if he remembers leaving anything in the yard. If you're calm, he'll own it, If you're angry he'll defend it. And then it will become your problem, because he will learn nothing. And after go get ice cream and guess what? It worked. No lecture, no blow up, just connection and growth. Jeff, do you remember this?
Jeff Jamison:Like it was yesterday. Yes, I still remember how angry I was too, because it wasn't the first time.
Trisha Jamison:Exactly so. That moment, one of many in our parenting and marriage journey, reminded me why I've used the color code in my coaching practices for almost two decades. We've had our kids take the test, we've had clients take the test and even staff. Because when you understand why someone does what they do, their core motive, it changes everything. You begin to understand and appreciate where they're coming from, and that's where real connection begins. So hello friends, welcome to another episode of the Q&A Files. I'm your host, Trisha Jamison, and I'm here with my favorite co-host and husband, dr Jeff Jamison.
Jeff Jamison:Hi everybody.
Trisha Jamison:So today's episode actually feels like a dream come true, and one I am so excited to share with you. We want to welcome a very special and extraordinary guest whose work has deeply shaped how I coach, how I parent and how I show up in relationships, personally and professionally. Kathy Larson is a master at helping people understand what drives them and what often drives them apart. She's a certified color code coach with over 30 years of experience in personal development, leadership training and corporate team building and individual coaching. She's the managing partner of Hartman Color Code, the gold standard in understanding human motivation. She's also the co-founder of Edge4, an incredible program helping collegiate athletes build identity beyond sports, deepening coach-athlete relationships and create high-performing connected teams. And she's the co-host of the Very Best of Living podcast with Dr Taylor Hartman, the creator of the Color Code. Kathy, welcome, we are so thrilled to have you here.
Kathy Larson:Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Meet you. Hello, hello, audience, I am just honored to be here with you today.
Jeff Jamison:Well, we've been looking forward to having you on for a while here now, so we're so excited, especially since we use the color code all the time yes, yes, well, and I just wanted to briefly talk about how we even got you on our podcast.
Trisha Jamison:So richie stedman is our editor and and one time, not very long ago, he was telling me that he'd been working on a book, and then I just briefly asked him well, what book are you? And he was so excited because he had finished the book. And so I asked him well, what book are you editing? And he said the Color Code. And I went what Are you kidding? I use their material all the time. It's absolutely amazing.
Trisha Jamison:So I asked if there was any way he knew that if we could get you on our podcast. He was like oh, absolutely. And so here we are, together and we're so thrilled to have you and this is going to be such a fantastic episode. So thank you so much for saying yes and coming on our podcast today, and I feel like there's such a connection and we're having so much fun already. We've already met last week and had a very enjoyable conversation together, agreed, yeah, so there are so many personality models out there, but I've always loved the color code. It's simple, powerful and easy to remember. I mean, your brain remembers colors and that makes it, I feel like more actionable right? 100%, yeah, exactly so. Do you find that the simplicity of color actually helps people apply what they've learned more effectively?
Kathy Larson:Yes, yes, they've learned more effectively. Yes, yes, I, early in my career, before I, totally you know used color code extensively, the only tool I use now and have for the last about 20 years, 25 years. I got certified in it all. I was all of them, all of the personality profiles, and I think they're all great for self-awareness. What I found was the minute you go in and you talk simply about four colors and the big thing, of course, is the motive piece.
Kathy Larson:That's where it's different that I could come back five years later and people are still. All I had to say is they're a red and they remember and can pull up and access the information of a red. And that's really good because, first of all, the investment. Secondly, you continue to learn and see and grow that and when people can recall, they can get to tools very, very quickly instead of you know some of the other ones. It's, you know, very complicated to remember. I remember what I am, but I don't remember what you are. Exactly so, and again, they're all good. I just find that this one, that color code, is just so easy to access and people remember it, agreed.
Trisha Jamison:I think that that's so. That's so true. So can you share briefly the colors and the attributes that come with them?
Kathy Larson:Yeah, so the color code is based on motive, not behavior, and that is a very different approach in this world and that is actually why Taylor went and dug and found and researched and developed the color code. Language stays the same you are born with it, it never changes. Now you can grow and become, but if you're a red, you're born a red. You stay a red. You don't change colors. So the four colors are red, which is motivated to power, blue, which is motivated to intimacy, white, which is motivated to peace, and yellow, which is motivated to peace, and yellow, which is motivated to fun. And those words in itself is really good to understand because people go power. Oh yeah, those reds are always telling me what to do.
Trisha Jamison:But it is very important to look at the definition of those words also, as you guys know, because you've been using it for a long time for a long time, right, and that's why, when our son left the power drill outside and, like I just mentioned, he's a yellow, so he's all about fun and being happy and go lucky and let's just have a great time, and why are you angry? It didn't always go well with my husband. So, yes, anyway, he has since really learned they have both learned how to work together much differently, and we do work with him even today. He he does a lot of stuff for us and he's amazing. So it's been really fun, really really fun.
Kathy Larson:Well, when you can see people and they feel seen, when you can understand and you don't take it personal. It is who they are, they're not trying to. You know, and you can start speaking the languages of all the colors, especially with your kiddos and your spouse. You know, like you know that heavy hitting place I mean work's important too, but you have to have this home where we're respecting and seeing and, as we talk a little bit more, that is the place where it gets sticky. You just talked about it a yellow kid and a red dad. You know what happens with that. You know and and and the dynamic of you know what's inviting to a yellow and what's meaningful to a red or on different ends of the spectrum.
Jeff Jamison:So Well, and sometimes you know, if you've got some red in you, like I do, it can kind of overtake any of the other colors. That might be trying to reach up into your brain and say, hey, pay attention to me too. But it also is really cool that you can recognize that in yourself and say, okay, what is important to me? How do I make sure that I connect with people on different levels and use the positive things I have instead of making them painful for other people?
Jeff Jamison:And there's so much positive too, and it's amazing, see, and that's one of the things that we I've been working on is that, you know, thinking in the red category has always been somewhat of a a negative. It's been associated with me in a negative way, uh, and you know we can get into why in another time or later on here. But and so I've kind of taken my my redness, if you will, and tried to pull in other parts of me and try to overshadow those things and I think that the redness that has really been overtaking my natural blue.
Jeff Jamison:Oh, so we're going to talk about that, yeah.
Trisha Jamison:I can't wait to. When Kathy first got on here she just asked, were there any surprises? Cause she knew we just took the test and I said yes. So I can't wait to get into that in just a minute. But yes, there were definitely some surprises, yeah, um so, but I want to first go back to. I just want to get to know the heart behind the work and then we actually have a listener question from Rachel. So where did you grow up and how did your early life shape who you are today?
Kathy Larson:I grew up in New Mexico and in Colorado, mostly my early life. It's pretty clear my dad was the national director of training for the Boy Scouts of America for 30 years. Oh cool yeah. We lived in Boy Scout camps at a place called Philmont, where all of the Boy Scouts go Lots of training for that.
Kathy Larson:Yes, Lots of training and it was he ran what was called the NEI, which was the executive training for the, for the people who ran all of the different councils around the country. And I remember from very early on just being influenced by my dad's approach to self-awareness and personal responsibility and looking and training people to be leaders in their own homes and in business and in the business of Boy Scouts, and that's where it all happened for me. And then he and I worked together later on in a business doing this same work and I've just always been interested. I went to school and got my degree in biochemistry, which don't even ask, I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know what I was doing.
Jeff Jamison:That doesn't seem like you at all.
Kathy Larson:No, wow, everybody was like you're doing what? And I was bound and determined. Actually, I wanted to be a physician's assistant and it's like I got off track. And where I got off track was finding out about these beautiful tools. I am interested in all of the biology of humans, but I'm much more interested in the connection and relationships and hearts and what happens and what breaks people and what builds people up, and it's always been something I've just been fascinated and passionate about.
Trisha Jamison:So it doesn't sound like you really got off track.
Kathy Larson:Well, after four years, after biochemistry and I've not worked one day in it, but I think I found my way right.
Trisha Jamison:I mean, yeah, you did. It's amazing. We're so glad you took another track, so that's fantastic. Who has influenced you the most in your journey and why? Well, that's a good question.
Kathy Larson:I have two people and in a really, really truthful way, it was Taylor Taylor Hartman who's the author, and when I first started and went and got certified the very first time, it was 30 years ago and I became certified in the color code and then I started kind of dabbling in it and talking with him. Well, at the time, I'm a core yellow, I'm about a 92 core yellow.
Kathy Larson:Oh, fun and yeah, well, literally yeah, I'm always living in the strengths of that. But my truth at the time and how yellows tend to have this ability to get out from under some accountability and responsibility by being charming and inclusive and you know how they move through the world. They're making people laugh and enjoying things. You know right, and they'll they real. They give you a pass many times and it's not good, but you make the world a better place we have.
Kathy Larson:Yes, that that's just the truth, yes, and Trisha, you're so right. And the other thing is is you make the world a better place at a level when you're living, and we can talk about this in the limitations, because every color has strengths that they come with and limitations come with and you have to look at that and own it.
Kathy Larson:So in this system, in the color code system I'm going to weave a few things here is that we start off with get self right and that's and this does not go like you know step one, step two, step three, step four. This is messy, it's life, it happens. We have to keep getting ourself. We go back and forth, we get lost sometimes, but keep getting that self-awareness. Then's get truth, which is I was yellow, I was way fun, but, man, I was not committed and showing up for things that I should have been okay, and that's how Taylor nailed me and brought me to. I mean, it was painful, like in a ball on the floor, a lot, you know, and I didn't want to look at it for a while. I was like, oh you know, because I could get away with a lot of stuff. Right, I was the last of five children, I was the one who, kind of Favorite, made everybody laugh at home.
Trisha Jamison:Yeah, exactly, yep.
Jeff Jamison:Somebody who talked themselves out of robbing a bank.
Kathy Larson:Yes, exactly so. So he really helped bring truth. So it's get self, get, get truth, and then you get over yourself and and in those three areas, and then, and only then, can you truly get others, once you get over yourself. So once I learned how to commit, really commit to something, then I was able to grow exponentially. And it's because yellows do tend to sometimes have a problem with commitment, you know, and just like you were talking about not that your son's still there, but it's just easier to leave the, metaphorically, leave the drill on the lawn. It's just easier, you know, I'm done, I don't care about that. Next, instead of committing to what the next step, the right step, should be, and owning it and being responsible. So Taylor was huge in that.
Kathy Larson:And then, how did you first meet him? It was in California and I just went. I I saw that it popped up, I was looking, I was at the time using another tool that wasn't hitting with people. It was good information but, like you were saying, like you guys know, working with the people that you work with as a doctor and as a coach, it's like people have to hear it in a way that they can take it into their lives and then utilize it. And sometimes what I was using was way too scientific, so I was looking for something else. Okay, so I went and got trained in California and that was the beginning. And then about three years ago, I did my own business. I did some training from him. We kind of touched base here and there over the past 25 years. And then about three years ago I stepped in and am managing partner and going to take over when he retires in the next year. Well, how exciting.
Jeff Jamison:That's fantastic.
Kathy Larson:Yeah, it's great, how exciting.
Jeff Jamison:What a great opportunity for you too, yeah seriously, yeah, I feel so.
Kathy Larson:I mean you guys, I'm like shocked. It's just so wonderful for me to go, because I really want to keep this body of work clean and clear and what it's supposed to be in the world, because, as you know, it's not getting easier. Things aren't getting easier.
Jeff Jamison:Oh seriously, oh my gosh.
Kathy Larson:Things aren't getting easier. Oh seriously, oh my gosh. So we have to have this connection tool so we can see each other, you know, and, and build you know what the color code helps us build?
Trisha Jamison:Yeah, absolutely I love that. So what do you love most about working with Taylor, and is there a funny or touching moment you two have shared that still makes you smile today?
Kathy Larson:Yeah, what makes me smile today. It was hard at the time but I went to several retreats. Taylor used to do retreats with people and I was. I was married, my first marriage I was married to and this is interesting it was a family member of Taylor's, which.
Kathy Larson:I didn't know. I really didn't know. I went and got this information. This is funny and he and I are friends now, so this is funny. But I went, got the book, started reading it, got excited about it and I came home and I'm reading through stuff and his last name, of course, is Hartman. I was a Hartman, I was a Kathy Hartman in my first marriage and so I'm reading this and I said I didn't. I don't even know why, but I'm like, yeah, this guy's name is Taylor Hartman and my ex-husband at the time, very casual, was like oh yeah, that's my cousin. I'm like what? So that was interesting.
Kathy Larson:And then we went to a retreat and just he's such a lovely man, my ex-husband that's nice we just weren't hot, you know, we just weren't, we just weren't there and we both went to a retreat and and it was really funny that the touching thing is is, that's what's so beautiful about Taylor. It transcends these family loyalties or the, I mean he's. He's obviously loyal to family, but he gets to truth and the truth was it wasn't working. So he wasn't trying to manipulate or keep together for the wrong reason Never. And it was just like nope, kathy, here's what you got to look at. And then my ex-husband, he said here's what you need to look at. And I just it's so endearing to me because it's really what was the best, not for anything else, but the truth of the situation. Okay, does that make sense? Oh, absolutely yeah.
Jeff Jamison:So that was very endearing to me, so yeah, oh, Trisha, I think that there's a couple of clients that need to take this pretty soon, don't you think?
Trisha Jamison:Yeah, yeah, oh, my goodness, that's awesome. Oh, my goodness, that's awesome. I'd love to hear about your work with athletes through Edge 4. So what's been most meaningful to you in helping them expand their identity beyond sports? And I was an athlete and I know that this is something that I would have definitely loved to have known more about.
Kathy Larson:Right. Taylor allowed my business partner and I in Edge 4 to take the color code and put it into a little bit of different form. It's the same basic. It's, you know, the same color, the same motive. Nothing has changed in terms of strengths and limitations. It's just a little different application because of what you talked about. I mean people are people right? I mean it's an athlete is an athlete. However, the performance and and the identity is.
Kathy Larson:Most athletes from a very young age get into this. You are an athlete, here's what you are, and defending that and living to that, living to the high expectation of that and what that brings to their life, you know and how hard they work and they start seeing themselves and their parents and their coaches like one dimensionally, like this is what I am and, as you know, I don't know if you've known anybody, but I've known several people. I was a college athlete, my husband was a college athlete. Is that, once that's over, right? Even after high school?
Kathy Larson:Once it's over, if you don't go on to play at another level, people really struggle with who am I? What is my worth? What is my value if I'm not on a court, on a field, holding a racket, doing something Because it's so defining and it's so structured. Like you know, here's what it looks like. So in that, if you get people to motive and able to look at how my belief, the belief that that is in the color code is, there's so much right about people, there's so many beautiful things about people, and we never start there. In this world, most people never start there. It's like, let me fix what's wrong. So it's giving them what they're good at, giving them the power of motive and being able to coach and talk to them, and then let them see themselves more dynamic, right who they are, outside of their sport and then happy helping the coaches see them like we've talked about, and being able to coach them in the language that they understand.
Kathy Larson:We've talked about and being able to coach them in the language that they understand. So, because it's also very easy to forget who you are and show up just as a coach wants you. Well, you can't reach full performance then you have to be able to connect with your motive. That is the key to real success in anything. As you know, you can't play a part If your coach is red. You can't be red If you're a blue or a white doesn't work. You get exhausted, you lose who you are, you get lost in the world. You don't even you don't know how to interact with yourself, much less anybody else.
Trisha Jamison:Wow, that's fascinating. So that actually brings me to my next question, which I think will be a nice segue here. Help us understand the difference between personality and core motive. How are they connected and how do they differ? So?
Kathy Larson:okay, in the color code you come with your core motive. You are born with it. Your personality is driven by this core motive in terms of needs and wants. You know what you look at in life and how you move through life. It is impossible to take core motive out of personality.
Trisha Jamison:So can you give an example? So just pick a color and just give us some examples.
Kathy Larson:So if I'm, I'll use a, I'll use a blue. Okay, a blue who's motivated to intimacy or connection. They come with the need to connect with. In that personality, in all of the pieces that make up personality, is like my needs, my wants, how I see the world, what I need in a relationship, all of these different parts that come together. If I don't meet that motive, if I don't feel connected with you, Trisha, right, I don't, I lose my bearing, right? I don't know how to move forward. So I might go. Okay, well, she doesn't like what I'm doing, so I'm going to shift over here and I'm going to act differently, so she'll accept me. Well, my personality gets shut down at that point. So, just so you connect with me, then I become what we call incongruent. My insides don't match my outsides and I'm living out of integrity of who I truly am. Right.
Trisha Jamison:Okay, yeah, that, that makes so much sense. Yeah Well, and I appreciate that. So often that happens and we don't even know what's happened. It's like you just feel this disconnect, but we're not understanding the reason why and what is even going on, and so I love how you know, just appreciating that these are your core motives, and when you change them to benefit someone else, then you lose you.
Jeff Jamison:So it's another piece of knowing, finding out what you don't know about yourself and how. I mean even just in our conversation right now, I'm going huh, I wonder if that's probably why I acted this way in this situation. Right, that makes more sense of why I behaved in a way that I don't really like, or that I did a great thing, you know, because of my core motives. What a cool concept.
Kathy Larson:Yeah, and the thinking and the feeling and the behaving driven by that motive is what makes up personality, right? So it's, it's all tied together when you look at it, and so that is. That's a a a great tool to go. Things aren't working in my life. I've got an issue in my life. What's off? What am I doing? I'm a yellow working in a, say, a business that's a very white, so maybe a red culture. Right, I like to hunt, I like to kid, I walk down the aisle, I'm talking to people You're not going to be well-liked.
Kathy Larson:Well, you're going to see me as a slacker, right, right, exactly. You're wasting time when that energy. So if I can get a yellow to go, time and place to do that, right.
Trisha Jamison:Right.
Kathy Larson:It's no, you can't do it all the time, time and place to bring that energy and a red to go. Wow, I like how that energy is the glue for this team, you know very simple, right. The fun can bring people together. It includes people, it's, it takes the energy up five notches.
Trisha Jamison:Yeah, that cohesiveness, love it, Exactly right. So, so good. What's the our world? What happens? It is that we go, I'm going to go to work and I have to be a red, because reds get things done.
Kathy Larson:They go after it, they're the leaders, they're the CEOs. So I'm this person who's trying to be a, trying to be a red, and I try to put on that coat. Right Now I can bring some of those traits in. Right now I can bring some of those traits in, but I am never a core red. If I was born a core blue, right, I, I can't, I can't fake my way through it. So the question that you ask is really good.
Kathy Larson:When people try to be something that they're not and I'm going to I'm going to tell you a just a quick story that hits very close to home with me. And my husband is a 6'10 blue, beautiful human. He's just a big old, giant heart walking around right and in the last six months he really is the person that I have seen transform the most. I've seen a lot of transformations in people transform the most because he finally, he finally owned that, his blueness and all the messages that he heard his whole life that blue was weak, intimacy and connection was weakness and he kept beating himself up and trying to be something he wasn't. Well, he finally cracked. It broke him down the stress and the anxiety of trying to hold these two things that were diametrically opposed. This beautiful man who wants connection, moving through the world with this red kind of I don't care, get it done, you know, and beating himself up all the time for it, it finally I mean anxiety. He wasn't sleeping, it was really tough and he finally realized that he settled back into his blue, he owned it.
Kathy Larson:He sounds so different talking on the phone with people. He's a civil engineer, he's a project manager, runs a huge site with, you know, 150 employees on it. So I think the important thing in that was is that living out, you know 150 employees on it. So I think the the important thing in that was is that living out, you know, when you have the courage cause, you know, fear. Fear feels just like growth, right. So we get in this fear and we're like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this, when it's exactly the same thing that growth feels like which is a weird deck is weird, right. It's like this doesn't feel right. Oh, wait a minute. It's exactly the same thing that growth feels like which is a weird deck is weird, right. It's like this doesn't feel right. Oh, wait a minute, it's growth. I have to go through this.
Trisha Jamison:It feels uncomfortable.
Kathy Larson:Yes, it does. So he, you know, and I really think, probably because it was so close to home, but I also worked with the CEO who was red, red, red, shut down, finally owned her blue core and realized that because she was afraid of having to do the hard thing in her blue core, right, so she just shut down, became really red, like red limitation. So let's make sure we're distinct, that there's red strengths that are beautiful, but the red limitations so what would have been the hard thing for her to do?
Trisha Jamison:as far as focus on her blue, what was that hard thing that she was focusing on to do?
Kathy Larson:Listening to the human side of things that are happening, being afraid that people are going to take advantage of her, the emotional part of a conversation, feeling like people are trying to manipulate her instead of stepping it with them. You know those kind of things. I'm not wanting to take the time because she was impatient that limitation of a red impatient moving and was just like I don't have time for this. More important things to do, okay, more important things to do. So, yeah, I mean there's some really beautiful things that. Have you guys seen any transformation in you as you've experienced it Like?
Trisha Jamison:volumes, seriously volumes, and go ahead. Jeff share, yeah, I'd love to hear it, your experience, because we took this probably I mean, I've been doing this for almost two decades, like I shared, yeah, and so we first took it immediately when I found this and what he was and what I you know he was three quarters red, I was three quarters blue, but we took it last night actually and that has shifted for him and I think that it's very possible when you take the test also, and if you take the test and are able to really look inside yourself while you're taking it and go how was I as a child?
Jeff Jamison:Really and not how do I want to respond?
Trisha Jamison:Right, yes.
Jeff Jamison:Compared to how I really was and what my core was then, and that's what I really tried to do last night when I took the test and my colors shifted commensurately. It was interesting and it took me by surprise because I was thinking I was pretty much red, you know, which is. You know, the strengths of red are things like action oriented, determined, responsible, visionary, pragmatic, motivated, articulate things like that.
Trisha Jamison:Which you sell, those things too, yes.
Jeff Jamison:But I mean, and if you look at I'm just going to show this in my camera but if you look at it, it's, oh, a whole bunch of red and a whole bunch of blue, a little bit more blue than red is that last night that? Was last night. And so yeah, 38% blue, 31% red, yellow, 22, white nine, okay, so, yeah. So I looked at that and I'm going, what is going on here?
Jeff Jamison:And then I started to really think and I thought you know, I think that I've made a lot of decisions to try and improve connectivity and intimacy and making sure that the people that are most important to me know it and that they're connected and not just being strong, forward, visionary, organized, all the things that I expect myself to be when I'm a red predominantly, it's actually for me. I feel pretty comfortable now thinking of myself that way, in that I have strengths in both areas.
Kathy Larson:So and I had a little fun. Yeah, just a little. And, jeffff, you were 32 blue, 31 red, is that what you said?
Jeff Jamison:uh 38 blue and 31 red okay, 38, 31.
Kathy Larson:Well, and of course, the blue red combo in the color code. As we talk about this, you've got this, this blue intimacy, and there's red power. It's the toughest, powerful but toughest combination, because you've got this heart like fights with the head, the emotion versus the logic, the controlling of the blue and the controlling of the red, from two different places, totally different places, and we can dig into that. But do you remember, like I think this happens with men in? You know, maybe it's starting to shift a little bit, but that red was kind of here's how I'm supposed to do things as a man. Is that the message?
Jeff Jamison:you got. Oh, for sure, For sure. You know, and as a physician too, you know you kind of are elevated into a plane, whether you mean to or not, into a leadership role, one of power and one that you're looked to for direction and strength.
Kathy Larson:Yes.
Jeff Jamison:And so you kind of mold yourself to be that. But in my motivation, really, and as I'm thinking about this, it's because I wanted connection and intimacy through helping others, and often I have let go of things that I would have otherwise done for myself in order to make sure that other people's needs were met, more important than me. And so, and so I've, I've done that way, more than I want to even say, and so, and often to the detriment of my family, because I'm I'm searching for that connection in places where I really didn't need it, because it was home all the time, and and so just in the last several years, I've realized that, yes, it's really great. I think I do a good job as a doctor. I think I do a good job connecting with people in my client or patient group, but really what's really important to me is my family and my wife and making sure those connections are way more important than even the patients, which I've had that flip-flopped at times.
Kathy Larson:Right. Well, and sometimes with those two emotions going on, the two motives going on of the emotions is this you know, push hard, let's go, let's go, slow down, embrace. You know. I mean, it can become really exhausting for a blue-red that when they're trying to balance that paradoxical relationship Because blues, you know, it's like, okay, I'm going to take control. And then inside it's like, is everybody okay with that?
Jeff Jamison:Right, exactly.
Trisha Jamison:That's adorable. Are you okay with that?
Jeff Jamison:Yeah, it's so true, and you end up kind of checking in. So this is what I'm thinking, thinking, how do you feel about it, you know, and it's like, well, I don't really, oh, shoot, okay, so I gotta back up and do a different direction so everybody feels good and and sometimes that decreases my effectiveness as a leader, because I was searching more for connection and acceptance than I am for leadership and direction- oh, that's so good.
Kathy Larson:And the red that demands this achievement. And then you've got this blue that judges the moral part of it right. So you know, you become hyper self-critical many times. You know, like it's just not good enough, I need to do better, I should be giving more and you can work yourself. You know a blue red, red blue can work themselves to exhaustion.
Jeff Jamison:Oh, I'd never do that. Do I Trisha? No, never.
Trisha Jamison:Never. But I also think that, no, never, never. But I also think that, he being so aware, of these colors and what they represent and he focusing so much more on incorporating all the good pieces. I think it's been so. It's been helpful for him. As a person in our marriage significantly dealing with our children, you know it's been amazing, so I'm really appreciative. I love.
Jeff Jamison:I love that you can't. The cool thing about it is you.
Jeff Jamison:Maybe your motivations are this don't really change, but you can change how you, how you handle it that's right and you can change the way you decide to behave and that you can balance better when you understand more. So again, this is right in that I love the phrase you just don't know what you don't know. And when you find out things you don't know and be able to go oh I can do different, I can be better, I can, I don't. I'm not completely tied to this behavior, I can change it.
Trisha Jamison:Exactly, 100%, exactly. I think that's so good, kathy. This has been such a rich and meaningful conversation. I know so many listeners are already having aha moments just from hearing you speak and from the amazing insights you're sharing about the color code. But the best part we're not done yet. We're going to pause here for today, but don't worry, next week we'll be back with part two, where we'll dive into Kathy and Dr Taylor Hartman's new book, explore the difference between personality and core motive and answer Rachel's powerful question how can a red and a white learn to truly communicate and connect? And we have some fantastic news. We're thrilled to be collaborating with Kathy and the Color Coat team to integrate this incredible tool more formally into our two programs the Healing Hearts Program and the White Coat and Worn Hearts Programs for Physicians. It's going to be such a valuable addition to our curriculum and we can't wait to share more with you. And before we go, kathy has graciously offered our listeners 25% off the color code assessment. You'll find the code and link in the show notes below. If you've never taken it or it's been a while, this is the perfect time to jump in and discover your core motive. We'll see you next week for part two.
Trisha Jamison:Thanks everybody, thanks you guys. Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A Files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to Jamison at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit, subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jamison, signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
