The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
78. Grief doesn't ask for permission, it simply arrives.
Grief doesn't ask for permission—it arrives unannounced, even for those who make their living guiding others through emotional landscapes.
Tony Overbay, a therapist who typically sits across from clients helping them process pain, recently found himself on the other side of the couch after losing his mother. In this raw, tender conversation, Tony shares what that journey looked like not just as a professional, but as a son navigating the complicated emotions of watching his mother's final days.
What happens when the helper becomes the griever? When the person who usually has the answers finds themselves sitting in the unknown? Tony walks us through those four days at his mother's bedside—the unexpected humor that emerged, the spiritual experiences he hoped for but didn't receive, and the beautiful moments watching his father's tenderness after 58 years of marriage.
Perhaps most profound is Tony's revelation about how his professional training both helped and hindered his grief process. While his background in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy allowed him to recognize unhelpful thought patterns, he still found himself wanting the mystical experiences he'd heard clients describe. His story reminds us that professional knowledge doesn't create immunity from pain—it simply offers different tools for the journey.
For anyone supporting someone through grief, Tony offers refreshing alternatives to the standard "I'm sorry for your loss." Instead, he suggests asking open questions like "What has this been like?" or "Tell me a story about them"—invitations that create space for authentic sharing rather than prescribed expressions of condolence.
Whether you're navigating your own season of loss or walking alongside someone who is, this episode offers a powerful reminder that grief is not a sign we're broken, but evidence we've loved deeply. Subscribe now and join our community exploring the full spectrum of human experience—from heartbreak to healing and everything in between.
Questions? Email us at trishajamisoncoaching@gamail.com
Sometimes we walk with others through their hardest moments. We offer words, we hold space for them, we speak softly into someone else's pain, especially when you're a therapist, a coach or a physician. You learn how to sit with suffering. You learn how to stay steady for others, you learn the language of deep compassion. But then one day it may be your turn. So today's episode is a tender one. It's about what happens when the helper becomes the griever, when the one who usually has the answers finds himself sitting in the unknown. This episode is called, on the Other Side of the Couch, grief and Grace, with Tony Overbate. Tony recently lost his mom and today he's sharing what that journey looks like, not just as a therapist, but also as a son.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Q&A file, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, trisha Jameson, a board certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into a tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you.
Speaker 1:Welcome, friends, to the Q&A Files. I'm Tricia Jamieson, and today we're having an honest, heart-level conversation about grief, grace and what truly shifts in us when we're the one experiencing that grace Before we dive in. As always, I'd like to start with celebrations, and I know, even in the midst of grief sometimes there's those little moments of light. I remember when my dad passed away, we just had a lot of those tender moments. Is there anything that you'd like to share with us today, Tony?
Speaker 3:Well, it's funny. I was already queuing up a joke, so now I can't.
Speaker 2:Go ahead and share the joke, because that is who you are.
Speaker 3:It is who I am, and we'll talk about that too, because that was pretty fascinating when you said that I had lost my mom and I think I've told you off the air before, but I can't turn off my humor brain and it's going constantly and when people have said to me in the past where they've said you know, we lost my grandpa back in 2012. My immediate thought is do you guys ever find him? And it makes me laugh every time, and so I thought that.
Speaker 1:So many times. I'm never going to look at that question the same ever again. It's the best, oh my God.
Speaker 3:As a matter of fact, I've been, I've been jotting down some notes for doing a bit of a podcast on some on the virtual couch or some of these things, and I already, of course, I'm going to have to call it, you know, losing Tony, losing Tony's mom you know, and it's going to start with a hilarious narrative of like yeah, we come find her.
Speaker 3:It was really rough. Oh my gosh, we're still looking for her no-transcript know internally, and it looked like it wasn't even her. And then I realized, oh man, I might be saying goodbye to her right now, and it was just, it was wild. So I just sat there. I didn't have a client at that time. And then he just texted and said hey, if you can get here today, that'd be great.
Speaker 3:And so then I called my wife and then I canceled the rest of the afternoon and then we were on a plane and we landed, and so the humor, of course, is that I was hungry and we hadn't eaten and I picked up the rental car right before midnight, and if we wouldn't have made it by midnight we'd had an Uber. And so it was like, hey, that timing worked great and in and out is open until one 30 in the morning. So I just thought, okay, well, it's on the way to the boarding care. And then I sat there thinking, man, if I end up missing her by 10 minutes because I wanted a cheeseburger and some well-done fries, that probably wouldn't be a good thing. But I got the cheeseburger and we ended up.
Speaker 3:So I guess maybe a celebration is, we did make it there. It was pretty amazing just to go from in my office one minute to then home and pick up Wendy and we're at the airport, and then I'm there, and then we were at the board and care by one that morning and then it was let the waiting begin, and it was almost four days of her hanging in there. Yeah, so celebration, uh, in and out, well done fries and a cheeseburger on the way to the board and care. There we go.
Speaker 1:Having a full tummy makes everything so much better, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But that would have been pretty bad, though, if I would have pulled up there and I'm, you know, still got my soda cup in hand and my dad says you missed her by a minute or two. That would have been a challenge, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting too, because when my dad passed away we were living in Yakima and I had that phone call you better come over. And I'd kind of already said goodbye to my dad. So Yakima is about three over three hours to get to Spokane, and if I had left right at that moment, like, and I had all these children that I needed to pack or find something to do with them, I wouldn't have made it. So I think it was the best decision.
Speaker 1:But I remember feeling a lot of guilt, just like oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm not going over, even though you know the day before I left I did say goodbye, and I just did all those things that you try to do at a time like that, but I still think that even today it's like gosh. You know, maybe he would have held on if he knew I was coming, maybe I don't know, and so, but they, my siblings, talk about this tender moment that they all had with him, and I wasn't part of that experience.
Speaker 3:So sometimes I do feel okay, the therapist in me says I'm sorry to hear that, because and I think it ties into maybe what we're going to talk about today because I've processed with so many people those moments and so it was such an interesting experience to then be in that moment there at the bedside and just in general, and I was telling my wife this, that it's fascinating because the hospice staff, the hospice nurse, was incredible and there was a hospice social worker and I think that's just such a special person that works in that space, right. But then I also, again going back to jokes, the things that they said were so comforting. But then I realized at one point it was like wait a minute, they've got all their bases covered. Because at first they said you know, sometimes they wait for you to be out of the room to go because they don't want you to be there, but sometimes they wait for you to get in the room and then they go. And when each one of those was said, I was like man, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3:Then I realized, wait a minute, so if I'm there, or if I'm not but they're correct either way, you know, because I thought that was really, uh, I realized, gosh, we want certainty, so bad. And we just wanted somebody to tell us hey, do you think it'll be tonight, or do you think it'll be tomorrow? And nobody knows. Nobody knows. But people are trying to then figure out the right thing to say, trying to figure out what would you want to hear. And there were times where, you know, at one point I think I was wanting to hear that it wouldn't be much longer, because it just really seemed like she was not there and that person's like oh, she could stay for days. And then I was like that's not the right answer, you know, but so sorry to hear that you can still kind of go to that place of. Did you feel like you missed that opportunity?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Mm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's been so many years later and I definitely don't focus on that as much, focus on that as much. But yeah, I mean there's still that If we ever talk about it, they kind of share some of those tender moments just prior and it's just you can feel a different presence in the room and it just there's a lot more light. It's there's, you know, and for those that have more of a spiritual outlook, that is something that people look for, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I appreciate that it was so interesting to now understand being in that and again in that moment or in that situation and understand even some of the stories that I've worked with before and and what they must have been like. And there was a couple that the wife was so upset that the husband was not there when her it was, her mom or her dad had passed away. But then the guy said but you, you asked me to go get you starbucks, and so then I did and I missed it. And then she was saying but you should have known, you know, you should have known that he was. And that's one of those where it's like, man, people just so want to make sense or they weren't in a good spot anyway, and so it's like there's something that then she now will most likely hold over him.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so sad. I really appreciate that comment, though, that people want to make sense of the situation and sometimes you just can't. There's no you just, you just get to experience it.
Speaker 3:There's no making sense of it and that's, and that was you're so spot on, because I started to notice we would check her oxygenation level and and it would be a certain number. And then we're on chat, gpt and and google, and it's like, oh, if it's this, it could be any minute. So I'm like, oh man, we're all chat, gpt and and Google and it's like, oh, if it's this, it could be any minute.
Speaker 1:So I'm like, oh man, we're all up by the bed, and wasn't it like in the forties or something like that? Yeah, yeah, it was like yeah, and and.
Speaker 3:But my mom, bless her heart, was very stubborn, so she was going to do it on her own time. And, uh, and know, is the maybe the last thing to go? And so for a while we were doing the hey, it's okay, like you can go, you've done, you've done great. And I realized wait a minute, she doesn't like to be told what to do. So then, a little, a little later than I, a little later I was back. I'm like hey, you know what, you can actually stick around as long as you want.
Speaker 3:Matter of fact psychology. Matter of fact psychology. Yeah, oh, it was such an interesting experience on Sunday morning. Out of nowhere, she opens her eyes and there's a CNA in there and a hospice nurse, and then, oh my gosh, and it was like a movie script. And then we all get over there and holding her hand and my dad's looking at her and you can go, and she's trying to talk and she can't really get anything out. And there was a tiny part of me that was worried, if she did, she might not say nice things. Who it was like, you know, it was nice, because we were like no, she's trying to say she loves us and goodbye, and so I like that version a lot. And then, uh, but then, and then the her breathing got really intense and then it slowed down and she closed her eyes and then she went right back to just kind of there and I just thought, man, that was, that was a movie ending, that then it didn't end.
Speaker 3:So then there was like oh it was just so fascinating, because then we, we all just kind of sat back down again and just four days later, I mean, we're out of stories to tell we've been playing music. Um, it was really interesting. And so then a few hours later I needed to go do do laundry. I brought it with me, and so I ran over to my dad's house and then my mom went while I was gone.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it was just so interesting, that experience just a few minutes, but I was just thinking about you know you've sat with so many people in grief over the years, your clients, friends, even a lot of your listeners here. Can you take us to the place that you felt this shift? You know what surprised you, what was helpful for you.
Speaker 3:I love the question. I'm a big acceptance and commitment therapy person. You know, it's the first time we're going through life as us, so there is really no playbook, but there's ways that we assume we should show up or things that we think we should be thinking or feeling. Forgot was that your, your mind, can think anything at once and uh, and so I would still have these moments where I'm sitting there and and I'm just trying to be present, but I would notice the stories my brain wanted to tell me of things like man, maybe you could have done a better job as a son. And and the part that was interesting was the good news was having really embraced acceptance and commitment therapy long ago, I immediately went to this place of like whoa, that's the thought I'm going to have right now Like that's not a very productive one. I'm not a big fan of that one.
Speaker 3:Instead of it just like oh I feel bad, yeah, so that was the part. And then once that happened and it happened pretty early, then it was I just realized oh, that's right, I can do all the work I want to, but my mind can think anything it wants, and now my body will feel a lot of different feelings. So I was able to look at those with more curiosity and cause. Some of them weren't great, some of them were hilarious, some of them were. They were just all over the place, and so I appreciated that. That was where it really shifted to oh I'm here, like I am, I am doing this, this is, this is happening.
Speaker 3:This is an experience that I will now pull from.
Speaker 3:You know, this is, this is something that I I will never forget, except for if I do when I get older, if my memory slides you know, and I've written a lot about it while I was there and since, and so I've tried to like pack in all the feelings and emotions and memories and and uh, but it really it was kind of surreal just to think that I don't know, I don't know if you've had that feeling for where you're in a moment and it's like wow, this is really happening. And that was one of those that just felt really profound.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is real time, yeah felt really profound. Yeah, this is real time. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I've, I've had that experience. It's, it's very. It's almost like this out-of-body experience a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really yeah you know I've got one that's gonna sound like I'm trying to work in uh, uh. Oh, let me mention my uh ultra marathon races of her, but it really one of the other times I would feel this and not, of course, in that similar way.
Speaker 3:So I did a few of these like 100 mile runs and that's kind of nuts now to think about it that I'm right because I'm not going to probably do any more of those right, and so I would be at the starting line on one of those and I would just think it would be so wild to think, wow, I am about to do this for like the next 24 hours, like I, and it is about to happen, and I just it was one of the most out of body experiences and so there was a similar feeling. That's funny we mentioned that, that I was there. I'm like, whoa this, I'm here, I'm not leaving, it is going to whatever four times 24 is yeah With my mom.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:I I really appreciate that and I think that so often we have those experiences in our life and sometimes we just don't take a moment to just really sit and feel it and to experience it. Like you know and I appreciate that you're writing things down, you're taking notes, you're really doing your part, so you don't forget these things, because I think these are really important. There's things that I wish that I had written down about you know, whether it's experiences with my dad or when I was going through some experiences, I just it's just a lot of memory, and how often does that memory shift and change?
Speaker 3:Oh, and I would say pretty much all the time.
Speaker 1:And so it's like you have an experience and then the next time you tell it, all of a sudden there's something new or improved, or who knows what it really is. Today I don't know. So I was thinking that the other day, when I was talking to Jeff and I was just saying gosh, I was talking about an experience and I'm like gosh, I wonder if that even happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real, I wonder if how much of this is even real. This happened, so you know, when I was a child and just as a child, and looking through a different lens and having such a childlike perspective.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you kind of grow up and you can't. It's just interesting not to look back and go gosh. I wonder how much is real? I mean it feels real, you think it does.
Speaker 3:Well, that's exactly.
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah.
Speaker 3:I have to tell you, there was a director that I was listening to a podcast and it was. It was a movie and it was a military or like a war movie and the the director had some really, really interesting things about memory that I I had to stop on this, this walk, and jot these down, okay. So he said, he said I love this. Memory is open to the passage of time and stress and trauma. And so then I added in there and a need for validation and a fear of abandonment, you know, and so, and I wrote this note down of my first client experiences I don't even remember because I was in my own head, so much because I was, I was afraid. And then he said memory is more reliable on what I felt, because we don't have video but we have snapshots and then we're filling in the gaps and I love that. So it's about what you felt.
Speaker 3:And then these snapshots of what happened, and then you fill in the gaps with, with the emotions, and and then it does. It changes that entire and that tire memory so fascinating.
Speaker 1:And if you've had a negative experience, what are you going to fill it in with Not positive, wonderful memories? They're going to be negative. So even if it was positive, Absolutely Well, that's.
Speaker 3:that's that concept where even in twin studies, I mean two twins can have the same input and then have completely different output because of whatever they were feeling or thinking or interpreting or their own lens.
Speaker 1:It's just so fascinating, is so fascinating. Yeah, so you were just talking about your secondary emotion, which, yeah, is what humor, right? Yeah, did you find yourself during this time I know, I mean, I know you, I've known you for, you know, several years now and when things have even been stressed, when you felt stressed, or you know you're going through a challenge or difficulty you always do reach for humor and I, and I love that and I appreciate that, I I'm kind of like I reach for the positive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you do.
Speaker 1:But did you find, when you're going through this experience and I know you just mentioned that you did reach for humor was there anything else that came up for you? I mean, like, did you try to distract yourself? Did you look for more logical things that you needed to grab hold of? Was there anything different that came up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:I really like the your question and I'll say first what was interesting about humor and then I'll tell you what I did that I found myself looking at differently but the concept of differentiation, of holding on to my self when, when I'm interacting with others, or when I felt like there was pressure to be a certain way or a different way, that that was a big challenge, because I would find myself wanting to tell a joke and then and I would notice, oh, I'm a little worried that someone might think this about me.
Speaker 3:But then you know, I've been doing a lot of content on my episodes lately about emotional maturity and there's one of the concepts there where it's like I'm worried this person will think this, but I need to let them think whatever they're going to think, and I'm going to do, I'm going to be, and so I would on occasion. I wish I could pull a good example of this right now, but I would say something that I said, because that's what I say and I would be aware that someone may take it a certain way, but that was okay, that was something that you know, that was a them thing and it didn't always go great, because sometimes I get a couple of looks because there might be a nurse in the room and I'm saying something pretty funny, uh, because my and my mom's there and you know and it's maybe somebody that's in there that they think that might be inappropriate or you know, but but that's okay.
Speaker 1:So that differentiation concept was was continually being yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. So where did you get your humor? Was your dad funny? Was your mom funny? Was an uncle funny? I mean, where did this come from? Was it just kind of a mechanism that you had to learn to just deal with life? Just curious.
Speaker 3:I've never actually thought of that because my dad is pretty funny, but I didn't really. I didn't. My dad worked a lot when I was younger and and I think he had a lot of stress providing and and so I don't know. I mean, I, that's a funny, that's a great question. I don't know. But I, I was always like class clown and that sort of thing, but it was, and I know now the. I mean I know you know this stuff as well, but that was how I got my validation, that was how I existed was if I cracked jokes and people laughed and that meant I was there, meant I existed.
Speaker 1:Right, did your parents laugh at your jokes?
Speaker 3:No, not so much yeah.
Speaker 2:Ouch.
Speaker 3:So, no validation there for you, I'm sorry, no no, no, but what I did think when you were saying that, did anything else come up? I did find myself really wanting to have almost like spiritual, mystical experiences. I wanted to I don't know I wanted to feel the spirit in the room. I wanted to feel like I did notice that I wanted those things to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you didn't no. No, yeah, and you didn't no, but it's.
Speaker 3:I mean, and that was because I will say that you know, I work with a lot of people that are working on their faith journeys, faith deconstruction, faith crisis, you name it and so often people will say things like you know, I don't feel this fill in the blank burning in the bosom or whatever, and I get to work with people where I get to say, oh, that isn't necessary or it's your normal and human. But I did notice that I've worked with enough people that have been through that grieving process or someone dying, and they've had a pretty profound spiritual experience. And what I did do was when there would be a nurse there, and I love I mean, the whole reason I do what I do is I love how people work. And so, whether it's a grocery store clerk and I'm going to ask them, what's your biggest sale today, or you know whatever, how do you mean customers? So, the hospice people I found myself asking every one of them hey, have you had some pretty interesting or like crazy experiences with this? And they all have. And I knew they would, because I've had hospice workers as clients and there were some pretty amazing stories, you know, and it's funny because a couple of them stopped and I would joke and say I'm a therapist, it's OK, you know, and then they would tell some pretty, pretty wild stories and and so I think there was a part of me that was like I would like one of those please. Right, you know. But yeah, order out. Yep, yeah, exactly, and I don't know if that's the way it works.
Speaker 1:Right, I don't. Apparently it's not. Yeah yeah, Probably not, but okay, that that's. That's interesting. I appreciate that for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, and it's. I've had a. I still remember the first funeral director client I had and I had to ask them. You know, just said, hey, have you had some pretty, pretty wild experiences? And I kind of assumed they'd say no and they were like, oh yeah, and then they would tell me one every time they came in and it, yeah, that's pretty, pretty, pretty amazing yeah, do you feel like potentially that, because you weren't experiencing that, you wanted to kind of feel that for other people that have had that experience?
Speaker 3:Ooh, tricia, that's a good question, and that question might even lead to, as you were saying it. Actually what came up for me was I mean you and I talked off the air Maybe we'll talk about this down the road but I mean I probably would have loved to have had a better relationship. My mom had dealt with a lot of pain, a lot of chronic pain, and so I wonder now, as we're talking, if that maybe there's a part of me that wanted to have, if I couldn't have had necessarily the in-person connection, that maybe I wanted this spiritual connection there.
Speaker 3:And maybe that was me subconsciously saying okay or no. It was literally consciously, but thinking okay, if I could have this big experience going out, then it will all make sense. And there I am wanting to make sense of things, maybe. Yeah, that logical part of your brain coming out. Yeah, yeah, right I like that.
Speaker 1:That's very good. Did anything catch you off guard emotionally? You know something that felt small but really hit hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Anything like that anything that would make anybody sad, but that concept of I'd heard of the death rattle, where the breathing that people will often get where, and that was a little rough to hear because I had heard so much about it from other clients and they would just say and then you know, they experienced the death rattle and so I'd heard about it.
Speaker 3:But that was one of those where, being in the room and hearing the way that her, her breathing became really labored, and knowing that that what there wasn't a lot they could do, they ended up moving her a little bit and it did address that to the point where actually for the last day, it sounded like she was literally snoring. So that was fine, because then I I get I could make jokes about that in my head, but there, when I first the before, it was sounding like snoring, that one it is wild to think of. Uh, that just brought up some, some emotion. And I and that one I I wasn't sure I don't know, I don't, I don't think I would have really enjoyed that if that would have gone on for another couple of days, which it would have, you know, if they hadn't have been able to position her in a way that she was sounding like she was snoring. So that was, that was pretty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was, that was tough I remember that and I think that there's some reality of you know it's close you know it's eminent and it's like sometimes, when you have that experience and there's other things happening, just like the snoring, or just sometimes they kind of talk or they do certain things yeah it's like, okay, that's here we are, we're still here.
Speaker 1:But then there's like it's more finite, it's more like yeah, here we are. This is like I said earlier this is in real time, this is this is happening now, and I don't know how much longer that's gonna. I think it's real, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, you're right, and I will say this is so cliched. I know that there's no. I've said a lot with clients. There's no right way to grieve. We're all going to grieve in the way that we do, and I love that concept.
Speaker 3:The other cliche that I thought about often was that you hear that we don't do death well in our country and because we're I don't know we're kind of like doing everything we can to stave off death, we don't like to talk about death. You know, we and and I and I I understood that more because, as I was there, there was, and I think, the hospice people and I'm going to have I'm going to have one of them on my podcast soon, cause I want to talk more about that but it was like I could also see that it could also be a beautiful thing, a transition. You know, we spent these few days and I wrote a post on Facebook that I might want to share a tiny bit with you about what I also. Yeah, maybe this would help somebody to know that that, uh, it will be uncomfortable, it it can be awkward, it can also be funny and it can be sad, and you know this part of that. You can have a whole lot of different emotions at once. Um so, so I just said, uh, rest in peace, mom. And I said I'm grateful that Wendy and I were able to be there with my dad right up to the end. And I said I always thought of my dad as determined and stoic, successful in business and his hobbies, but as my mom transitioned from the ICU to hospice I got to witness another side of him. He was his quiet dedication to her, his tender care through some of the most difficult and demanding days of their 58 years together.
Speaker 3:And I said mom continued to be mom, meaning she was going to go when she was good and ready and not a minute sooner. And that left Wendy, my dad and me with a lot of time bedside for four days before she passed. She was incoherent throughout that time, but a hospice worker had said that hearing was the last sense to go. So she encouraged us to talk to my mom, share stories, play music she liked, and that ended up being the advice that I thought was amazing. So I said, over those four days I got to know both my parents better than I ever had.
Speaker 3:We shared memories from their childhoods, high school years, decades of marriage and while we were told that, based on her condition and vital signs, she could pass in any minute, she had other plans and so a lot of those minutes brought a lot of emotions and a lot I didn't expect, and so I put here at the end I said now I can't help wondering if she was hanging on so that I could have those days with my dad to see the strength and his tenderness and realize that moving forward it's him and me, and then his grandkids and a great grandson. So then I looked at that whole experience then of, okay, I never would have had that experience if she had not hung on, and so that was pretty tender and because I had a brother die 30 years ago, so I've been the only kid for a long time and now it's just my dad and I. He's actually going to move down to Arizona with us and that was just that was.
Speaker 1:I won't. I treasure those three or four days where we were just there bedside, well, see, and I love that, I love that you and I remember reading that, yeah, and I just thought that was so tender especially the last part, when you mentioned how you felt like this was an experience that you got to enjoy with your dad and maybe that's why she held on longer about is how are you looking at life? What does this look like for you on this end? So, how's your dad doing? How's he doing now?
Speaker 3:I think really well. I mean, I think really well, yeah, he's, I mean, he misses her. It's 58 years, that's a long time, long time. But I'm really glad that he's going to move down with us. And so there's this part where I I want, I want to have a relationship with him, because that's something that he and I haven't necessarily had as much of, just because of I don't know, but all kinds of different circumstances. So I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, good, I, I think that that is fantastic. That's to that. Yeah, well, good, I think that that is fantastic.
Speaker 3:And that's where he should be.
Speaker 1:He should be with you and your family. Yeah, I remember when your daughter went through a really bad car accident.
Speaker 3:I thought about this too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you had mentioned how you help so many people deal with their emotions and just moving through them and walk through their grief and I remember how much that changed you because you were on the other side. You're on the you're now on the couch and how you're able to see through such. You know have a different perspective on when somebody is struggling like that. So how has being in this yourself deepened your understanding of compassion and empathy?
Speaker 3:Yeah, first of all, I feel very grateful that you remember that, because that was a game changer for me and I would talk often about the ACT principle that I love, of. Oh, I'm noticing my emotions. They are there. I'm not trying to push them away and I'm inviting them to come with me and I made it sound like it was just so easy to do. And then when those emotions were crushing and I didn't want to get out of bed, then I was like, oh man, I need to go back and redo all those podcasts Like hey, hey, those are okay, All right, the times where you can invite them with you and you eat a whole bag of Reese's and don't exercise for a couple of days. You know that. Okay, I get it now.
Speaker 3:So, I thought about that often as this was happening and it really was more of the okay, yeah, what am I? What am I going to learn? What's my experience going to be? And I thought about, I wondered, with the experience with Alex, because I think that was four years ago, maybe four or five years ago, I wonder if that would have been different. But then it got to the circular logic. Because of that experience I did a whole lot.
Speaker 3:I went on a deep dive for the next couple of years of really understanding emotions. Even as a therapist, I feel like I should have probably had a better relationship with emotions before then. But then it's been really learning where they are, at what they're trying to tell me, inviting them in. They've been messengers since childhood. I've shoved them down, I'm the adult.
Speaker 3:So I think that whole experience led me on this journey to figure out the emotions. So then, sitting there with my mom, I think that's what helped me be that much more aware of the emotions. So I love that you asked that, because I've thought about this, because let's say that that hadn't happened with Alex, I would imagine this probably would have been the experience where then I would have had the oh man, that's not so easy to just say here they are, here's emotions, invite them to come with me. So because of that experience, I think I was able to to really experience this event and all the emotions and sit with them and thank them and and acknowledge what were they trying to tell me? Versus just, oh wow, I actually have them.
Speaker 1:So this is your first time. Yeah, I, I think that that is. I really really appreciate that, because I think so often we always think how come I haven't experienced this before, or how come whatever it might be, and I think because you weren't ready.
Speaker 3:That wasn't it.
Speaker 1:When you're in a place that you're ready and you're receptive and accepting of what's coming and you can handle things in a way that you can teach, you can learn, you can grow. And now look where you've taken it to the next level with this experience with your mom. So I think it's so good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've been saying lately too, that you know, when we didn't know what we didn't know, then of course we didn't know it, and then you learn something new, and you learned it because you didn't know it before. I'm going to sound a little nerdy here for a second. So then at some point, though, then well, that means then there's lots of other things that I don't know, and so I can't wait to learn them as well, and it does leave me more kind of genuinely curious about the future. So not that I want to have all the, the, the challenging experiences, but I know.
Speaker 3:I'm very confident now, though, that I will make it through them and and I can learn something from them, and I can, you know, really believe that apparently, all these things truly will be for my good, when before it's like, really, this is going to be for my good, but now, okay, I don't believe, I believe it, right, exactly. So now I can believe it, and it doesn't mean that it's going to feel great all the time, but I have confidence now that, overall, all right, this will be for my good. I'm pretty confident.
Speaker 1:I think that's so good and going along with what is good for you, when people would ask you what they could do to help you, or let me know if you need anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How hard was that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think people are definitely genuine, but there's also this space of they have no idea what to do. So when people reached out. Was there something more meaningful? What actually helped you?
Speaker 3:Okay, tricia, it's so good to we haven't talked in a while, it's so good to be back and your questions are good Cause I thought about this one a lot and it does go back to the when somebody says oh, I'm so sorry. Sometimes, I do and I'm not. I'm saying bless everyone's heart and they all mean well, but I do know that sometimes I've said that no-transcript couple of people. Yeah, right, yeah, genuine with you, it was funny One of my clients I talked to this morning.
Speaker 3:I hadn't talked to since and and he had texted me. He's like, man, that's that really sucks, you know. And I told him hey, that's, that was actually spot on, you know, like that, that was like, you know that, uh, yeah, that's really hard, or that must've, that must've been a bummer or something. And I was like, oh, that was, yeah, it really was, you know, and it was really interesting. And uh, and I still remember I had just started grad school 20 something years ago and my neighbor, one of my neighbor, his wife had passed away and just like the day or two before, and it was like, I just remember, we were almost all like out and we saw him and everybody was like, hey, I'm so sorry, let me know if there's anything I can do.
Speaker 3:And I had just started grad school. So of course, I'm a full-fledged therapist in my mind, but thankfully the professor had said something about, like you know, ask them what that's like or how they are feeling. And man, it was so awkward but I did and I just went to him and I just said, hey, what is, what have the last couple of days been like? And he just like broke down. He was like oh, they've been so hard and I've done this and I can't believe, you know. And I was like oh, that, like almost like that, works that, you know, instead of me just going like, hey, I'm so sorry for your loss, let me know if there's anything I can do, cause that just you know that. Again, great words.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But I don't think that person is going to tell me that they need anything.
Speaker 1:Right. So what would you say to someone that is in the middle of a loss or they're grieving? Is in the middle of a loss or they're grieving that could be helpful for them to have those actions, those words, or how can they reach out to them? Both sides? How could the person what do you think that they could share with people that are asking, and what do you think the person that is asking can they say?
Speaker 3:I interviewed the author of this book a little. It's a kid's book on grief. It's ashley boy son. She's amazing and this is a one day, a child's journey through grief and loss. And she was on ashley's such a an amazing person. But she was on dateline. Her, her husband had been murdered and uh, but I mean the story and she tells it, but the murdered by her affair partner's husband.
Speaker 1:So that's why it made it a children's story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but, yeah, exactly, but, but that part isn't in the book. But but when I interviewed her, though, I she had such a good point about this and I thought about where, you know, she was just saying that somebody would say, hey, tell me about your you know, tell me about your your mom, or she was like to kids. I was like, oh man, what you know, tell me, what you remember about your dad, or what was his name, or you know. So people want to talk about it. So you know, I think, uh, someone would have even said something like they're like, tell me a funny story about the last few days. Oh, then I'm in, oh, I've got funny stories. I've got one that I don't know if I can truthfully tell legally, but it's so funny, oh my gosh it's the best, but for me it is like, hey, anything crazy happen or anything that you didn't expect.
Speaker 3:That's why I think this interview has been so fun, because it's just like oh, it's like telling stories about things, because I like those, because, you know, I know we like to be heard and understood, and and so when somebody's just like I'm so sorry and let me know if I can do anything, I mean again it's like, okay, I appreciate it. That is a human interaction, but man, what's that been like? You know? Then I'm in, I'm on board, which is also hard, because as a therapist, I don't. I've also thought recently did I get into this so that I don't have to talk about myself? Maybe that's it, because then you know, when somebody turns it around on me, well, no, that's not what you're doing. You're paying so I can ask you questions, you know.
Speaker 1:So it is still kind of funny. Yeah, right, exactly. Well, we could go on and on.
Speaker 3:This has been so, this is why I want to be so vulnerable, but I have a client at three and I have to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:Tricia, oh, I know, I know and that's so rude, but I just it's so fun. No, I do. I just appreciate your time here and I appreciate that there's something about the beauty of grief, because it doesn't ask for permission, but it also leaves us with a deeper sense of presence, and I think that's the important part is we just need to be present for one another.
Speaker 1:We need to focus on when there is loss, when things feel strange and funny or there's sweet human moments, or whatever it is. What can we do? We don't want to make things awkward. We want to be able to reach out, make things offered, want to be able to reach out. We want to, and I think one of the things that might be helpful is maybe send a text, a sweet moment that maybe, if you knew the person that you could share. You know, I think that those things are meaningful and I remember when I'd get cards from my dad and they would like send a little bit of a.
Speaker 1:I remember when and that actually was really helpful because I appreciated how people perceive my dad and just some stories that were really important to me and I still think about them. So I think that those things are going to be. I just wonder, just in my situation, how that could be more helpful. And I think everybody wants to say I, I'm sorry, but sometimes those words are just what do they really mean? I mean, but it's like what else do you say, you know?
Speaker 1:sharing my condolences, whatever it may be, but it's like I remember when and I think that we just went to a funeral just a few minutes ago and I know you need to go, but it was just such a celebration of life and that's all they brought up, or all the memories of what they experienced with this person, and they were beautiful and funny and happy and it wasn't this depressing like, oh my gosh, this is awful, it was a wonderful experience, so anyway.
Speaker 3:I like what you said, though, about the grief not asking for permission. That really hit, because it's like, yeah, nobody said hey, when's a good time for your mom to pass away if you need to get in here? Because, like you know, in that now that one, that one, I might even take that one from you. Yeah, like I always say, tricia grief doesn't ask for permission.
Speaker 1:Yeah, grief doesn't ask for permission. Yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I love it. I have to think about what I said. I don't even remember the words.
Speaker 1:It was really good, yeah, I have to go back and listen to the recording. I'll put that in the show notes for you. How's that?
Speaker 3:Okay, thank you. All right, trisha, always a pleasure. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to get the band back together, all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Tony. Have a great day.
Speaker 1:We're thinking of you Bye-bye. So to our listeners, maybe you're in your own season of loss, or maybe someone you love is, if nothing else, I hope, today reminded you that grief doesn't mean you're broken. It means you loved deeply, and love always leaves an imprint. So, tony, thank you for showing up not just as a therapist today, but also as a son, and for letting us feel all the little things that make us more human together. And I do have a challenge for you this week.
Speaker 1:I'd love for you to reach out to someone who may be grieving or having a challenging time and to share not necessarily advice, but just be there and be present with them, share a text, a memory if they have had a loss and a moment of compassion, so let them know that they're not alone. If today's episode meant something to you, please send us a review and share it with someone who might need to hear this, or drop us a question. We love your questions and please subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. This is your podcast and I love how this community continues to grow. We're grateful you're here and we love your questions. So until next time, stay curious, stay connected and be gentle with the parts of you, that may still be healing.
Speaker 2:So goodbye everybody. Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A Files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to trishajamesoncoaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit, subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jameson, signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
