The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
Marriage Myths Debunked: Part 1
Ever been told "never go to bed angry" or that "your spouse should just know what you need without asking"? These well-meaning pieces of relationship advice might actually be sabotaging your marriage.
In this eye-opening conversation with licensed marriage and family therapist Tony Overbay, we dive deep into the marriage myths that have been passed down like sacred wisdom but often do more harm than good. With humor and practical insight, we examine why these beliefs persist and how they shape our expectations in ways that can lead to frustration and disappointment.
We start by tackling the mind-reading fantasy—the belief that true love means anticipating your partner's needs without communication. Tony reveals why this childhood adaptation becomes maladaptive in adult relationships and offers a refreshing alternative: embracing the joy of explicitly sharing your needs and desires.
The myth that "marriage solves all problems" gets thoroughly debunked as we explore how marriage actually tends to magnify existing issues rather than erase them. As Trisha puts it, "Marriage doesn't fix the problems, but it gives you a partner to face them with."
Perhaps most powerful is our discussion about boundaries—why they're essential guardrails for healthy relationships rather than obstacles to intimacy. We distinguish between boundaries and walls, explaining how properly communicated boundaries actually create the safety needed for deep connection.
Can people really change? The final myth we tackle challenges the fatalistic view that people are permanently fixed in their ways. Drawing on neuroscience and therapeutic experience, we offer hope for genuine transformation while acknowledging the reality that change must be intrinsically motivated.
Whether you're newly married, considering marriage, or decades into your relationship, this conversation will help you identify the unhelpful relationship myths you've unconsciously adopted and replace them with healthier, more realistic alternatives. Your relationship doesn't need a perfect script—it needs honesty, intention, and a good dose of humor.
So have you heard this advice before? Never go to bed angry.
Speaker 2:I knew that was the one we were going to do. I know right. I know I'm not supposed to jump in yet. I know I'm not supposed to jump in yet, Tricia, but I was hoping that was one of them, Okay. Well, of course it is that's like number one. I'll sit tight, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:So I was just thinking. You know, if Jeff and I followed that rule back in 1998, we would still be awake today, that's funny. But isn't it funny how these sayings about marriage get passed down like sacred wisdom.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But when you actually try to live by them, they can do more harm than good. So you've already heard Tony. That's who is here with me today, and I'm so excited to have him because we're going to be cracking open the most common marriage myths. In fact, we've got 10 of them. We're going to figure out what they get wrong, why they stick around and what is going to be a healthier alternative to replace them with.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Q&A F file, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, tricia Jamieson, a board-certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into a tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you. Welcome, my fantastic listeners. I'm Tricia Jamieson and again, my great friend and therapist, tony Overbay, is here. Licensed marriage and family therapist Jeff is not here with us today, but don't worry, he'll be back and he'll be able to give his advice and perspective in a future episode. So, tony, I absolutely love this topic because these myths shape so many of our expectations and if we don't challenge them, they will quietly set us up for disappointment, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Absolutely and, by the way, I will predict that we'll get through maybe four of the 10. And I think this will need to be like a three-part series, because I could talk about these things all day long. Because if I'm out in the wild and people find out that I'm a marriage therapist, first of all they say, oh, can I ask you a question? And they just want validation. But usually they will bring one of these things up and it is funny because I'll think, oh, yeah, I would love to give you my opinion and then welcome the yeah buts. Well, yeah, but yeah but Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:So I can't wait to hear some of your, and you may even be adding some of the ones that I miss in a future episode as well, but we'll see how many we can get through. But before we start and dive in, I want to pause for just a second and we're going to do some celebrations. So, tony, what's one thing you're celebrating this week?
Speaker 2:You'd think that by now that I would.
Speaker 1:I know what is wrong with you.
Speaker 2:I know I would think about it, I don't. And then what is that about it? When I get put on the spot, because I mean, life is good, I really enjoy things. Celebratory things are. Hey, how about you, trisha? What are you celebrating?
Speaker 1:I'll be happy to start. I was just thinking about it's been a morning and I feel super accomplished, so I got our son up early. We have a seminary program. He has to be there by 625. And we're about 10 minutes away. I'm watching our three grandchildren right now while their parents are packing. They're moving to Utah. So I've got the oldest is 11, the youngest is six and I've had them for about three weeks now just over three weeks and it's been amazing. They're fantastic kids. But I'm not mom, I'm n nanny and we have a great time together. But all of a sudden there's a meltdown and mom isn't here to hold and and take care of them. But I tell you what it's a steep learning curve. We're doing great. I'm really close to them. I'm actually close to most of our grandchildren.
Speaker 1:So that is very, very. But we did the first day of school and that was a challenge and our poor little six-year-old, he just could not handle life. It was pretty challenging. But this morning he came in he says, nanny, I'm so excited to go to school today and I'm like, yes, that is so great. But then, yes, and then my mom is here and I've so enjoyed her being with us. But she went to go visit her sister who is two hours away. So I just got back just before we met partway but I'm like you know crazy Utah traffic. Am I going to make it in time for this recording?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But I did it and I was so happy. So, yes, I feel very accomplished. That's my many celebrations.
Speaker 2:All right, I hope I gave you time. You did, and this might be a little bit unorthodox but I am celebratory often of the fact that actual working on your mental health works and you know therapists or physician heal thyself concept. So a hilarious story for me is yesterday I'm trying to get this interview out that I did with a friend of mine named Julie DeJesus who interviewed this guy named Kevin Frankie and it was Ruby Frank. All this whole thing, this fascinating case right.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I know this one.
Speaker 2:Okay and my friend Julie interviewed Kevin his first interview in a long time and then Julie was passing through Arizona and said would you like to interview me about interviewing Kevin? And I said absolutely I would. And we had a fantastic interview because she got a lot of negative feedback on YouTube. She wasn't expecting and we were breaking down those comments my co-host on another podcast called Love ADHD. Shockingly, we both have ADHD and so mine wasn't full force. So I had this audio file and I ran it through this other program and then I ended up editing the wrong file and so I went back and edited the right file and then I recorded an intro and then I didn't like the intro. So then I re-recorded the intro and I didn't push the button that makes my microphone work.
Speaker 2:So then I had this and I felt like I was just on fire, tricia, just speaking, channeling the heavens with what I was saying and so then I thought you know what AI is fantastic, so I'm going to see if there's an AI program that will lip read my lips in the video and then generate a transcript, because I think that I will never recreate what I was doing. Recreate what I was doing. So then I spent almost an hour and a half and I tracked down an AI that is built for people that are deaf that will read like lips and videos and whatever.
Speaker 2:And so then I, but then I had to create some account and I had to pay in these tokens and whatever, all to find out it didn't work. So then the most fascinating thing was that was a two hour waste of absolute time, when I time is at a premium already. And I got to the end of that and I was like, well that, check that out, that was, that was a thing, right there.
Speaker 1:That was the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was it was, and I re-recorded the intro.
Speaker 1:What'd you learn from that thing?
Speaker 2:You know what Everything is is okay, it is all right. That happened. I didn't beat myself up, it was a waste of time not even arguing that and uh, and I even thought I'll probably be able to tell this as a pretty funny story at some point. So here we are.
Speaker 1:So I'm so glad you shared that as so frustrating and all the things that go along with something so annoying. But I appreciate you sharing that Cause I think you know we all have those kind of things that happen in our life and we work so hard and we think that it was going to turn out great and then when we realized you didn't hit the record button or the microphone, yeah, and the whole time it's funny because, even as I realized, ok, I got to set up an account, that'll be a thing.
Speaker 2:And then I do like, well, of course you need to put some payment there. You got to do that. And then it's like, ah, you have to create a different account to do the payment. Well, that I didn't see that coming. And the whole time I'm narrating this in real time and I promise it was just you know it and I thought, oh, this is the part where I'm supposed to get all mad, I think, or this is the part where I think I would. The frustration would usually kick in. So it was just, it was nice, or I'm delusional.
Speaker 1:But look, you were so emotionally regulated you didn't have to get mad. Yeah, look at you. Oh, I'm. I'm sorry that that's a hard thing, but I'm sure that you're going to use more of what you just shared in future episodes and with clients and all sorts of things, and you've just already rehearsed it all, so you're you're golden.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right, okay. So this topic has been coming up with my clients a lot, and yeah. So just this week I heard someone say if my spouse really loves me, you're going to love this one. They'll just know what I need without me even asking.
Speaker 2:That one is actually correct, trisha, so move on to the next one. I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess we have failed, because I've tried so hard to get Jeff to read my mind and I don't know what the deal is because he doesn't do it. So if you can share some tips and tools that we're not getting, I'd like to hear them right now, please.
Speaker 2:I'll save that till the end. No, that one Okay. So how did you answer that one?
Speaker 1:by the way, that there's nobody that can read each other's minds as much as we all want to. And, like I said, for almost 39 years I've been trying so hard to have Jeffrey in my mind and it's always so disappointing when he doesn't yeah. But when I finally let that go and recognize that that's not possible and even if I have shared something a hundred times, I get to share it again, absolutely, that is the moment that we get to communicate and he'll go oh, okay, or thank you for telling me, or whatever it is, and so I don't get frustrated anymore. He doesn't get frustrated because I'm frustrated and it's just it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:So, yes, that's what I tell them. And the more information you can share, the better Always. Yeah, how about you? You can share the better always. Yeah, yeah, how about you?
Speaker 2:So I like it a lot because it's it's a normal human experience to think the other person is, is remembering things that we say, because there's that fear that if they aren't, then maybe they don't care. And we can create all those narratives. And I'll go right back to the old childhood adaptation that is now maladaptive because as a kid we were trying to, we did kind of assume that we could, we knew what people were thinking, because we're trying to manage everybody's emotions. How should I show up, man? My dad looks mad right now, so he probably is. If I think it, it's true. And so now how do I navigate this situation? And and just like we just think that we're, we're all kind of on the same page, you know. So mind reading is a childhood adaptation, because I got to try to read this guy's mind in order to be able to survive. So I just like that concept of those things that kept us alive are now most likely maladaptive or probably a little immature as adults. So now is our time to address those issues. So now it is.
Speaker 2:I am noticing that I am thinking that they remember what I said about whatever you know, whatever it is, and that is a me thing. And so then, even if I want to ask them hey, do you remember what I said about whatever? And? But the answer is probably no, and, and that's okay, and and I think about this one often, though, because it is it's natural to react a lot as well. So if I say to my wife well, remember the story I told you a couple of days ago about the thing, I still find myself wanting to be offended when she's like, uh, I think so and I want to think really, like that was gold. I told you this story, you know. So I mean, it just comes out in so many ways, I think.
Speaker 1:And so you're right.
Speaker 2:So if I have, I need to communicate. If I want someone to know me, then I have to have the courage to be known. But then it's funny. I just got out of a session where the person was saying something similar like well, I would like to share this with him, but I don't want him to get mad and I was like, oh, you can't control that part you can share with him. And if he gets mad, then if I can be grounded, I can be like hey, why are you mad about this thing I shared? Like what did that bring up in you? Because I'm, I'm sharing and so it just gets. It gets pretty deep, it would be. That's why it would be easier if we could just read each other's mind.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I think that it would just create a lot of many more opportunities to grow in a positive direction, because you already know what they're thinking and what's going on. But you know. Unfortunately that's not the that is not the case, but it does set us up for frustration, for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I like what you said, though, about if I it might be the hundredth time that I'm going to tell him and what a, what a joy, because I think I did a podcast a long time ago where I just said I don't, I don't think that the you already told me that is ever productive, right?
Speaker 1:So if somebody's reminding you again Makes them feel stupid, it does.
Speaker 2:It does. Now, if somebody says wait, have I mentioned this to you? My number one go-to is like well, yeah, but obviously I don't remember it all. So but if yeah, no, tell me again.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's just like, everybody has their own perspective, and so you have a situation that happens and you've got one person that can clearly see and remember, obviously, the things that they've shared, and then the other person remembers all the things that they've shared and they're not connecting and it is. It's like well, what do you mean? You didn't hear what I said. This is right. This is what the whole conversation was about. Yeah, but it's each other's perspective and we need to appreciate that and be understanding that. That is, that's a thing.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:We're going to take a look at the 10 biggest myths about marriage, Like I said earlier, what they get wrong and what we can hold on to instead. So myth number one marriage will solve all of your problems. So why do you think people believe this, Tony?
Speaker 2:We all want to have hope that things will just be, things will make sense. We want that certainty so bad. So if I can just count on that marriage is going to solve all my problems, then that will sure calm me down now, and then I think sometimes it even can set the table for some serious can kicking of things down the road. It's like you know, you know what. This will all be better later, because I've been told marriage is going to eventually it will figure it all out. But then I'm not figuring it out along the way and then, before you know it, times elapse, things have built up. There's like a pressure valve.
Speaker 2:We haven't talked about things, but it's like I thought this was. I thought this was going to be the whole fix it. You know I thought this was going to solve everything. So I don't know I should. I should try to make my answers a little bit shorter, so I would just say oh, that one is based off of, in my opinion, how much we just want to know the answers, we want to know the end of the book, we want to know that there's certainty, and so as long as I know that marriage will, I'll figure everything out then you know then that that makes me feel better. What do you think? Yeah, right?
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like we believe this because movies books fairy tales tell us marriage is what the happily ever after, and I think too that we expect loneliness and insecurities and even bad habits to vanish once we have found the one right, yeah, but in reality, marriage actually magnifies what's already there. So if you have had trust issues, debt or family baggage, which we all bring to every relationship we talked about the suitcase before those issues unfortunately don't disappear. In fact, they often grow louder under the stress of a married life right right, which I think is the reason why it's funny.
Speaker 2:One of my clients yesterday was saying man, it's just more messy than I thought. He was talking about his marriage, his relationship, and he was even saying, and he was, he's a man of faith. And he said why would, why would god set it up this way? And then, oh gosh, right, I know.
Speaker 2:And then in, uh, david schnarsh's book, secrets of a Marriage, he has a part where he says this is actually where he first really felt or saw the divine was that you could take two people that have all of their bags and complications and bring my need for validation into a marriage, most likely with somebody who is probably not going to be very validating, because that's the pattern we fall into, and then, instead of me going like I will never get enough, she will never validate me enough, what is wrong with her?
Speaker 2:Then I go man, why do I need so much validation? So this is my chance to grow really or that person that's avoidant I know, I love their episode. A couple weeks ago we talked about the attachment styles, but in theory that avoidant is supposed to go oh, wow. So my partner is, uh, they seem like they're not really enjoying this as much as I thought it is. Do I need to do anything different? And so we have this chance to grow and and work through our issues that we bring into the marriage, because how would we know about them unless we're interacting with this other person so intimately?
Speaker 1:Exactly and just like you're talking about. You know, marriage doesn't fix the problems, but it gives you a partner to face them with. Yeah, yeah, and I think that the best marriages acknowledge that both people bring their stuff to the table, and but it's important and imperative to work as a team to grow through it. And I always think about, like a gym membership. You know, when you you buy a gym membership, that doesn't make you fit just by buying one right you still?
Speaker 1:have to show up and do the work, and it's the same in marriage.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but that's a good one though, because I do know, and I don't know if you've experienced this as well. I still remember the very first couple that I worked with. That the guy said, the wife said you know, it seems like once we got married he was done, he was done working, and the guy I look over at at him.
Speaker 1:He looks at me like yeah yeah, that's what we do.
Speaker 2:Everybody knows that. And I remember thinking, I know. And then I was, you know, one of my first lessons, yeah, but but it's like he most likely saw that map in his, in his home. You know his parents, I don't know, I didn't get into it too much with him, but I could imagine, yeah, he's like his dad, just like, nope, I'm married, married now, you know, my wife will do all the things, yeah. And this guy's like, oh, I did everything I could got her. Now I can relax. You know, now they were.
Speaker 1:It's amazing that people really think like that Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, maybe they have a perfect marriage and we don't, you know, they need to write books and we can just follow their plan.
Speaker 2:I do not think that is the way it turned out.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it didn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. So myth number two good relationships don't need boundaries. So why do people believe this?
Speaker 2:I mean because it's so funny. I mean it would be easier if we could just run all over each other's boundaries and nobody cared and everything just worked out great, and but that isn't, that isn't the thing. And I was okay and honestly, I can't even make this stuff up. So two hours ago the session was all about this, about boundaries, and somebody that is, and I was saying it's, the boundaries are there to keep you in a relationship, but we just, it doesn't feel that way, because if I set a boundary, hey, if, if you know, if you are going to talk to me that way, then I am gonna exit this conversation.
Speaker 2:If you really look at that way, it's so that I can have a relationship with you, because when we are talking and you get to this place, then I I don't like who I am in the relationship and and I don't, quite frankly, like the way you're treating me and so and now I'm also rewarding this behavior that you're having. So none of this is conducive for me staying in the relationship. So the boundary, you know, is, is so that I can self regulate and hopefully you will then see that, oh, I won't talk to you when you, when you are talking this way when you're being a certain way, so we just we don't look at it that way, though we look at bound, and I was telling this person too that, unfortunately, as soon as you set a boundary, prepare for it to get pushed, and because and then that's our immaturity of like, oh, you can't tell me what to do, you can't tell me what to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my three-year-old self comes out yeah, exactly yeah. And I think sometimes boundaries get confused with walls. I think that when you put up a cement wall, that's way different than a boundary. Yeah, you know, I mean, I think walls create distance, creates a lot of unnecessary feelings. Where boundaries I feel like that those are without boundaries, I feel like resentment and burnout actually can creep in. Yeah, and so the couples who avoid setting, I think boundaries often end up really drained and they get really defensive.
Speaker 2:Yeah and there goes really defensive yeah.
Speaker 1:And there goes their connection.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I know we got so many of these to get through. I'll try to speed run this, but one of the things I think is really interesting is a lot of people they'll throw out an ultimatum you know you can't do this, you can't talk to me that way, and then that's a real challenge versus a boundary. If you do this, then I will. Then I will do this because that's a me thing. I'm doing it for a place of self-respect.
Speaker 2:But then when you have somebody that will set a boundary and the other person will respect the boundary it is, it is phenomenal how quickly that can lead to healing, to the point where I've had a lot of yeah, and I've had several, several good situations where the first time a couple will really embrace that, and then you know, let's say it's the wife and she's saying that kind of a boundary, and then the guy says, ok, I noticing, I want to tell you that's not OK, but that's me afraid that you, your boundary is you're, you're leaving me, you know, like an abandonment wound.
Speaker 2:But I have to trust that your, your boundary is, is to stay in the relationship or to so that we can communicate in the relationship, or to so that we can communicate. And then it's like, once that boundary is respected, I will often have the person that set the boundary come to me within a couple of weeks and say, okay, I. I find myself now wanting to say you know what I'm like, I'm okay relaxing the boundary, but I'm afraid to do that because I just said it and I just said okay. Well, that's the sign of emotional maturity, because if I've never set a, then I don't even know what it looks like and I do it. And then it turns out that, ok, I can, I can actually have this boundary. Where then I'm going to, I'm going to relax the boundary because I want to have this conversation with you, but just know that I can still enable my boundary whenever I think that I need to. That is a me thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I'm glad you brought up the. Here's my boundary, and if this boundary gets breached, then X happens. So that's the response. It's not necessarily consequence because it's not a punishment. So I'm glad you brought that up, because when we put up walls, a lot of times they have no idea what's going on, how you're feeling, what's happening behind that wall. But a boundary is very descriptive. It's this is how I'm feeling, this is the reason I'm putting it in place. When this gets breached, this is what I'd like to happen, and I think that that is. And it just kind of reminds me of guardrails on a highway. They don't block your relationship, but they keep you from falling off a cliff right.
Speaker 1:And so I think that that's what's important and it makes, I think, intimacy possible by protecting safety and respect in the relationship.
Speaker 2:That's well said, and I and I. There is a man. Yeah, Maybe we'll get through three of these Right.
Speaker 2:But what is so good about that too, trisha, is the but then sometimes people will set boundaries, and I like using humor, but where it will feel like that's a pretty silly boundary, and so one might be hey, if you don't apologize for whatever, then I'm not going to talk to you. But what if I don't really believe I have done something wrong? And I mean that one comes up often where, because now we didn't even communicate well so, and it goes back to this immaturity thing of well, if I, if I think it, it must be true, so I think you did this no-transcript, and so they can't, they will break the boundary. And it's just so unfortunate of what you do in that situation, because if now all of a sudden they're like, okay, I guess we have to apologize, well, I would imagine they're going to go in there and not be genuine with the apology, and now that person's going to say I don't believe you, so you're not, you know you're not genuine exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, that one's, that one's a, that's a challenge one. Yeah, you know, but I I also think of boundaries like a game. If you don't have rules, what is it? It's just total chaos. Boundaries are the rules that allow love to thrive again in your relationship. And so, if you don't have them but I think it's also allowing the partner to have some feedback allow some feedback. This is how I'm feeling, this is what I need, this is what I feel can happen. If it doesn't happen, what are your thoughts about that? And when you come from a place of not necessarily feeling, there's not resentment, there's not all these emotional pieces that fuel or feed into this other narrative. I think that you can come up with some other pieces of oh well, let's include this, and that could be from the other person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's when you're in a healthy relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, I know it's like I can keep going, but I know that this is not the Well. It should be continued on another episode about balance.
Speaker 1:Definitely, definitely, okay. Well, let's see if we can get through one more. Okay, okay. Myth number three people don't change, so why do you suppose that is a myth?
Speaker 2:Okay, do you want to take this one first? Because I do. This is a funny one. I get asked often.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'd be happy to.
Speaker 2:I have strong thoughts, but I would love to yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, when I think of that, I think of you know, we've all heard the adage. You know you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Speaker 1:And sometimes I think when we're hurt, it feels safer to assume that people are stuck in their ways and they're not going to change. But I also think that the neuroscience tells us that the brain is absolutely capable of changing throughout our entire life. And I think with the right amount of support and awareness and training and tools, it's that these practices and these behaviors, they definitely can shift. But you have to have a desire. I mean, if you don't have a desire to change, then it doesn't matter. So growth is a choice, but it's not a guarantee. But we have to have a desire to want to show up differently. We have to have a desire to be different in different situations and also be able to listen to what we can change. I think a lot of times people aren't willing to listen to what they can do different. They find that criticism. You're critiquing me, but they have to be open and willing.
Speaker 2:Okay, that teed me up. Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 2:Because I wholeheartedly agree with all those things. And it's funny. My first answer on this one because I do think about this one often is that somebody doesn't change the way that they want them to. So if my spouse is not changing, then, see, I don't believe people can change. That's probably the main context I get in the couples therapy sense is, my partner is not changing and it's like, oh, the way that you would like them to change, because that would make it easier for you. And then, if you're stripping it down to the individual, then this is where I think and why I love acceptance and commitment therapy.
Speaker 2:So much is that most of us are working off of programming, of the things that we think we're supposed to do or we're supposed to like, or the career I'm supposed to have, and all this is based off of, I mean, and nothing judgmental about this but if we didn't have this amazing secure attachment with a parent that was continually saying, well, what do you want to do, champ? Versus I think you need to do this, or if you don't do this, you're going to disappoint me, then you know the person doesn't they're, they're working under these socially compliant goals. Well, I know, I'm supposed to care about this, or I know I'm supposed to do this, so I'm not going to want to change if that's not the change I'm looking for. And so then they've got this concept called experiential avoidance. So I'm going to do all these other things first, other than this thing that I don't even want to do. Change wise so you can see where the people just, and then they start to feel like I'm not even in control of my life, I don't have a real purpose, I am going to let people down. It's so heavy to start to unpack that.
Speaker 2:To get to the well, what do you want to do? Cause? Then usually the number one answer like I don't know. I mean, I know I'm supposed to, I'm, I want, wanted to be like a sports announcer or something. Cause somebody told me I did the announcements well in high school, so there's some validation. Then it's like so, but I know I'm supposed to be in business and but I don't know what that means. So you chase this and you go here, here, and eventually you find your way and you do the thing that really matters to you.
Speaker 2:So I know, my first 10 years out of college I would not say I changed very much because I wasn't even doing the thing I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:And then once I was able to then say, oh, I think I want to do this therapist thing, even though there were a million yeah buts. But now it's finally like, oh, that was a career change, that was a life change. And I know that then, once you do that now, it frees you up to say so. And and I know that then, once you do that now, it frees you up to say like, kind of, do whatever I want, but I am going to get a lot of people telling you that that isn't the thing that you're supposed to do, and and so then so I love being in that position where you know somebody's sitting across from me like, oh, you wouldn't understand, you know I, I, you know I'm stuck in this job or whatever, and I just want to not try to make it about me. But oh, like I was for a decade, you know, thinking I got a lockdown and this is my life. It's like, you know, change is possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I love what you just said about that. And that is what kind of change are we expecting from our partner? Yeah, from our partner, and are we allowing them to go down that road of life and learning and growing and being authentically themselves to figure things out with? Yeah, so I think that, that, I love that. But I also, you know and I think of too. I think of you when I'm saying this.
Speaker 1:You know and I think of too, I think of you when I say in this but it's like when you think of someone who never has exercised and then later in life chooses to run a marathon, all of a sudden, they're kind of into this new way of life. Change is possible, but what does it do? It takes training, it takes commitment, it takes new shoes, it takes, you know. I mean, it's like that's huge. So when I think of people having a desire to make this huge shift in their life, whether it's exercise, whether it's learning how to look at situations in an open manner and so they can and most people don't know how to listen, but learning how to listen and what does that look like in their relationship there's just so much that can. That can happen when you allow people to be who they need to be.
Speaker 1:But I think as spouses you can also gently help them navigate down that road. Because you know, I was working with a client last night and it's like they have this whole perspective. So the couple, they're struggling with what the husband sees and what the wife sees. So the wife has been able to navigate life and appreciate they've had a lot of challenges. The husband has, he doesn't have boundaries like the wife does. And so when you are traveling down this road and you've got one person that is not really taking charge of what it looks like to have different boundaries, until the wife is like, hey, are these boundaries blurred for you? What can you do different? You know, I think that there's ways to help couples go through these experiences in a healthy way by not being demeaning or you know that kind of thing, but helping them gently. But sometimes you need to be a little forceful as well and say, hey, this was hard for me, this was kind of screwed up here.
Speaker 1:You know, in the best way. You know how. But then, just like you talked about, the husband or the wife could go. Either way has an opportunity. How do they want to show up with that information? Do they want to fight back? Do they want to? What do you call it? The drive-by validation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, drive-by invalidation, like on this one, it's the what I was thinking about, cause I do a lot with couples and and it sounds dramatic, but sometimes I just will not want to I do. I say, hey, is this a hill that you're willing to die on? So your spouse is saying that this is, this, is. It causes me a lot of discomfort and I'm I'm acknowledging, yeah, it's a me thing, but we are in this relationship together, so are you willing to die on this hill of? Uh, you know, there's a someone recently I was talking with and the the guy likes going to a casino. We'll just say that. And then the wife is saying, okay, that just because of all these other things that have happened, I just I'm not okay with that. And then, and I know that the guy's wanting to say, but I'm my own person and this, you know I'm, this is my autonomy, and so then is it like okay, is that then the thing that you're willing to say?
Speaker 2:It is casino or marriage, or is it? What am I getting from this? This me going there? Is it? Is it I don't know connection? Is it detachment? Is it? Is it excitement, whatever? And so then, can we have a conversation about a healthier version of that for me, because I mean, I'm sitting there making judgments the whole time of like, I don't really think it's about this one particular casino, you know, but they're, they're holding onto that he doesn't want to let go of his autonomy, but he's not even realizing. I don't think that. That that is. It's not about the casino, you know, it's about his autonomy. You're totally missing the point. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I think that that's that's going to be a good one to just end with.
Speaker 2:We did three right. Did we do three of them?
Speaker 1:Three. But this is so fun and I'm so grateful that we're able to kind of go through these and we're going to take some time. I think that we don't want to rush through them, because I think there's a lot of great information that we can share. Yeah, just learning to go through these together and helping our friends figure out a little bit more how to I don't know understand that this isn't about having the perfect script, but it's learning how to write your own story with honesty and intention and a whole lot of humor. There we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go. If this has hit home for you and you find yourself resonating with this, please share this with a friend and send us a review. We'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, we just want to sign off and let you know that we think you're awesome and we hope you have a fantastic day. Keep choosing intention, compassion, and keep choosing each other. We'll see you next time. Have a great week, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A Files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to trishajamesoncoaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jameson, signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
