Ep 107: It’s Not Why Women Stay, Its Why They Won’t Leave with Dana Diaz

People love to ask a woman in an abusive relationship,
 “Why doesn’t she just leave?”

But leaving is not always safety. Sometimes it’s the most dangerous step she can take, emotionally, physically, and even spiritually.

In this powerful episode of The Dimple Bindra Show, we unpack what really happens inside an abusive, narcissistic relationship… and why so many women stay far longer than they want to.

I’m joined by Dana S. Diaz, bestselling, award-winning author of the memoir trilogy Gasping for Air, Choking on Shame, and Rising from the Ashes. She’s also a global speaker, podcast host, and one of the most sought-after guests of 2024, appearing on nearly 300 podcasts worldwide.

Dana’s story is one of survival, silence, awakening, and reclaiming her life after 25 years with a narcissistic, abusive partner.

Together, we explore:

• Why leaving an abusive partner can actually be the most dangerous moment
• How love bombing, apology cycles, and manipulation trap women in emotional quicksand
• Why silence becomes survival and why that’s not weakness, but trauma
• How childhood abuse and neglect set women up to repeat the same relationships in adulthood
• The neuroscience behind why we are drawn to familiar pain
• How psychological abuse becomes physical violence
• Why women self-blame, self-silence, and stay even when their body is breaking down
• The physical healing that began the moment he left the house
• How healthy love later triggered her old trauma patterns
• Why self-sabotage shows up in safe relationships
• How rebuilding trust in yourself is the foundation of rebuilding your life

If something moved in your chest or your gut while listening, that’s not just a podcast moment, that’s your soul saying: We’re ready now.

You don’t have to heal in silence anymore. 💜

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Transcript

You know, people often look at a woman in an abusive relationship and ask, why doesn't she just leave? And what most don't understand is that leaving is not always safety, because sometimes it's like the most dangerous, disorienting step of all, and you need to understand when love has been used to control you. When apology just becomes manipulation, and when silence becomes your survival, you stop recognizing yourself in the mirror. You start living for peace instead of joy, for safety instead of truth, and that's not weakness, that's trauma.

In today's episode on the Dimple Binger show, we are not gonna blame women for staying. And we have to understand why they just can't leave yet. And I'm super excited today that we have an amazing guest, who is someone whose story embodies courage, resilience, and transformation. She is Dana S Diaz, who is a bestselling, award-winning author, global speaker, and podcast host, known for her memoir trilogy, Gasping for Air, Choking on shame, and rising from the ashes. I just love that name, Rising from the ashes. Dana, her work has been featured on NBC Chicago, and she's spoken on the main stage of the Ultimate Women's Expo. She's also been named the number one most popular podcast guest worldwide in 2024 after appearing on nearly 300, 0 my goodness, 300 podcasts. Across the globe. So Dana's story is something that we all need to listen. Welcome to the show, Dana.

Thank you so much for having me. We'll say 301 now.

Yay. That's great. I just love it. So Dana, before we talk about your books or your work, I would love for you to share about your beginnings. What was life like before you realized you were in an abusive relationship?

You know, the irony is, I should have known I was in an abusive relationship because I was raised by two abusive parents, and, you know, that's the second book, but it's like we, I disillusioned myself. And you know, as I say, I excused, I enabled, and I tolerated because, you know, excusing it to bad moods and bad days or maybe I did say something wrong or maybe I shouldn't have done this or that to provoke, you know, some anger, unreasonable anger as the case was, but. It's very insidious because it just creeps in. It's like every time something happens, it just barely, like, it's like putting your toe across that boundary line to where it's not a deal breaker, but you didn't like it. But you give them another chance, and there's always that, you know, with narcissists especially, there's always that promise. The I'm sorry if you get that followed by the, you know, I did have a bad day, or, you know, I, I, I just, I don't know what came over me. I won't do it again. I promise I'll be better. And after 25 years, I, I couldn't wait anymore.

Yeah. Got it. Oh my goodness, that's, that's a very, very long time, interesting, and I, it's crazy how. I have been in relationships where the men would say I'm sorry, but by, that's it, just I'm sorry, but it would not be a complete apology, and then I would think like, OK, this person will change the next time, but that next time never comes. It's the same mistake happening over and over again, and if you point them towards the mistake that they make, they don't take accountability, you know, so. Yeah, it's, it's very crazy that you spent, oh my God, almost 25 years. That must have been a very hard.

It was very hard, especially because I wanted out after 5 years and I stayed 20 years longer. it changes when you have a child. And, you know, I think we can't dismiss that that's the whole, I never meant to write more than one book, but the whole reason of the second book talking about my childhood was because it set me up for that. In retrospect, it's so blatantly obvious. But when you're living life every day, it's kinda, I, I always tell people it's kinda like as you gain weight, you don't notice a, a quarter of an ounce here or there, but 10 years later you notice that extra few pounds, you know, it just creeps in, but You know, in my childhood, so my mother did not want me. I was a teenage pregnancy, and she didn't want me anymore when I showed up on this earth. she married a man who was physically and verbally and abusive, just terribly. But when I would cry to her about the abuse that her husband was purporting onto me, she would actually say to me, her daughter, he wouldn't mistreat you so badly if he didn't love you so much. And I watched her throughout my whole childhood and during my teenage years while being told these words, literally told these words, I would watch her tolerate things that to me, even, even I remember 56 years old, I'm like, I'm not feeling good about this. I'm unsettled, and I would stand up for her, but she was always quiet.

So it was interesting that here I was leaving home at 8. I couldn't wait to get out of that house, and nobody's ever gonna treat me that way again, and I went out into the world. I had no idea that I was a co-dependent and, and desperate. I hate to say that word, but I would, my mother was very emotionally and physically neglectful of me, and between that and her husband's abuse, I just, I, I, I would take any crumb of attention and affection, and I was basically like a circus animal. Like, tell me what trick I need to do to get what I need. And that's what's, what's what we're going to do. And that's how I ended up with my ex-husband, because when I met him when I was 19 years old, I immediately I was repulsed by him. He wasn't even that attractive, which is the strange thing. Like there was nothing appealing, but his attitude, this, this arrogance that was misplaced with him. It, it didn't make sense with him. It reminded me so much of my abusive stepfather, but isn't it interesting how our brains tell us, oh no, don't do this, and what do we do? We walk right into it because that's what we know. That's what we know. I'm like, oh, I know this personality. I don't like it. It's repulsive, but hey, why not? Because I have no other options, and that's basically what it was.

Wow, and it's familiar. That's what you walk right into, and we, you, you pretty much marry your father again in a different body.

Absolutely, and I think we, you know, one thing I like to say upfront with people is, as I've been, you know, speaking more in this field, we cannot ignore the neuroscience of it, and I'm not a, I'm not a scientific person, but the fact of the matter in layman's terms is that your brain is wired. To go towards what's familiar. Your brain does not want to make extra effort to learn new personalities and how to navigate healthy relationships when it's perfectly comfortable, not happy, but comfortable with the chaos and the. Conflict our brains don't care if we're happy or not they want what's familiar so and and that's why we need to change that we need to really educate women and I'm so glad that we are talking about this topic.

Do you recall a moment. When you were with your ex, if I can ask you this, did you, when you first felt that something wasn't right, and you knew it's, it's not love, but you knew it was control, because that's the one thing that they really do, right? They really like to control things, especially narcissists. So, do you recall that moment?

I do. , sadly it was only about 3 weeks into whatever you wanted to call us at that point, but I mean at 3 weeks I had already met his parents. I had already met. , well, spoken to his sister, he'd met most of my friends. It was very fast. He was getting ready to move me in with him, and, and to me, I thought, oh, he says he loves me forever. He's gonna, you know, be mine forever. I mean, that's, that there are no nicer words to say to a girl that never belonged in her own family with her own mother and father. And so yes, that moment, actually is in my book Gasping for Air. It was right before Christmas and I came home. I don't know if anyone remembers that, that old group. No doubt Gwen Stefani was the lead singer. They had just released their new album with Just a Girl and Yeah, well, it back then you had to actually go to the store and buy the CD. We had didn't have downloads and things like this, so I was very excited the day it was released. I went to the store on the way to work to Best Buy. I picked up the CD. I came in his apartment that night all excited because he loved the group. He's the one who turned me on to them, and I was so excited. I, I got the CD for us.

And he, I mean, to say he became enraged was an understatement. And I just remember standing there with my mouth open, like, it's a CD. Like, it's, I don't understand why the anger. And he very violently ripped open a small box that was under the Christmas tree in his apartment. I mean, violently, papers going everywhere, he's knocking the tree and ornaments, and he literally swung this compact disc. I didn't realize what it was until it hit the sofa next to me because I had sat on his sofa by then, but it was the same CD apparently he had bought it to give me for Christmas, which was in just a week. But he was so angry that I had gone and bought it, and I, I, I just remember looking at him like, I can take this back. I have the receipt. It's not a big deal. It's a $15 CD. And I, I mean, he gave me the silence. It was just awful. And that was the moment that I'm like, OK, like, no, I'm good. I, I don't need to deal with this. I know this personality and I'm fully aware that this is manipulation, you know, to control me, that, you know, I'm supposed to know that I'm not supposed to buy anything. He actually said that you, you should know you shouldn't be buying anything for yourself before Christmas. I thought I could buy myself a CD. I'm a single young woman working hard. Yeah, what's the big deal?

And so I did cut him off for a few days, but you know what, it's interesting. I came home one day, a few nights later, he was sitting in my apartment. On my couch, I forgot I had given him a key that quickly, silly me, but, I thought it was forever love, but that wasn't love, and I just remember being scared to approach him. And that's the one thing I warn people of now and I know better now at my age. If there's ever any fear in any, I don't care if it's a romantic relationship, friendship, work, whatever, fear has no place in a healthy relationship, and fear. Is where control is. That's not a healthy relationship, but I knew not to say a word to him about it because I didn't want to upset him. And instead I sat next to him and took him a minute. It's like he was deciding whether he was going to let me back in even though he's sitting in my apartment, and he put his arm around me and I kept my mouth shut, and I realized then not only had I just submitted to a man just like my mother had submitted to her husband. I had turned into my mother, keeping silent to keep the peace.

Oh my God, it's like from love bombing, to gaslighting, to abuse, and then submission.

Yeah, and this was all 3 weeks, and, and I stayed at 25 years.

Wow. Oh my goodness. And I know my goodness, so many women stay in such relationships, and when they listen to this part of you, they can relate to, you know, the slow unraveling of your relationship, even though it was so fast because the love bombing, they just want to get your attention, and once they get the attention. They start thinking that they are owning you. Where, where, OK, so where the abuse isn't obvious at first, what helped you start to see the truth of what was really happening?

Well, it's funny, it, it all happened so fast and so early. It was maybe only 2 or 3 months after that, so only a few months after I'd met him, he had me moved in, locked me down. , already had me leave my job. I mean, he, he was very, very fast.

Oh my God.

And so now I'm dependent on him still trying to find another job, and I was actually working in real estate, so I was trying to find a position where I could get an apartment with my job or a condo so that I could get out of his apartment and go be back on my own. So I knew what was happening, but. You know, it's interesting because, you know, that's when I noticed the girls calling at night and him leaving in the middle of the night to go meet people, but it wasn't a big deal because it was just some girl from work. Not a big deal. Why am I getting upset over it? Oh, I don't know. It was finding him coming out of a female neighbor's apartment once. it, it, it was a lot of things, finding, trying to find him and finding him at a, at bars with women, him coming home drunk and telling me he had messed around and, and. Had intimate. Relations with other women and you know then it it you add on to that the holes being punched in the walls, the doors slammed so hard they came off hinges, hockey sticks going through walls, crowbars being swung at my head, and, and this was within. You know, what, less than 6 months, and you know what the sad part is, is it just gets worse because what did I do? I would fight with him. I'd stand up for myself, but towards the end again, by the, by the end of that 25 years, we had a child, so I didn't want to start any of that with my son in the house to witness it, so I became even quieter.

As the years went on for the sake of my son to have peace in the home he was growing up in. But it didn't help because even after the divorce, even after the divorce, there were two incidents of domestic violence where he actually, and trigger warning for anybody, but he actually was telling people, I had witnesses and he was texting me and emailing me, he was planning to kill me. And, and he tried.

Oh my God, I am so sorry for what you went through, and I'm so happy at the same time you're right in front of me, safe and beautiful, and I'm sure your son is safe because now you're probably parenting your son. So I'm, I'm actually, I would, I would say thank God, thank the Lord, thank the goddess that you're still here with us and you're talking about it, and this man is hopefully no longer in your life anymore.

Well, as I say in the book, these, these sort of people, these personalities are like cockroaches, and I, I hate to say it and sound so dramatic, but I don't think it ever ends until one or the other person is no longer on this earth, so, You know, we just do what we can to keep safe, but I think it is important to speak up. I'm not going to stay silent anymore, you know, because when we look at the statistics, and I speak these all the time, and these are current statistics, 1 out of every 3 women in this entire world is abused by a current or a former intimate partner, and that's only what we know of. But that's still a lot. There's 2 of us here. If there was another woman here, I mean, I would be the one. You know, with the former abuse, but one woman dies every 10 minutes as a result, every 10 minutes. So in the course of just our conversation today. Likely 4 to 6 women will have lost their life. Because of intimate partner violence, and I'm not OK with that at all.

And then, yeah, let's talk about the children. 50% of these children. 50% of all children, excuse me, in the US witness abuse and violence in their home every single day. That's where they should feel safe and secure and protected, and they're not. And what do they do? They either become, I hate the word victim, but they either become the victim like I did, or they go out and they become the perpetrator. So the cycle goes on and on, and it's got to stop.

Exactly, until we choose to heal it, until we choose to see that we don't have to repeat the same patterns as our parents, and we don't have to be the mother or the father. But we choose to end it right there and then, which most people don't have self-awareness of. They don't even know why they do what they do, why do they slam doors? Why are they rageful? Why are they violent? Why are they doing, most men have unhealed trauma that are passing it on to their spouses, not even knowing, and these men are not even diagnosed.

Right, you know, I think most people have unhealed trauma. That's my opinion, even if it's not, you know, and I tell people, even if you don't have a history of abuse like I do, there might have been something that kid in first grade said to you that, you know, about your, your teeth or your ears or whatever that just stuck with you that, I mean, honestly, I'm joking about it, but we are all very affected, and the reality is, is everything we. Do every decision we make, every choice we make to act, react, or not act at all, in every interaction we have in life is sourced from our past. So I joke around. I tell people, give me 5 minutes. You think you've had a nice normal life, give me 5 minutes. I will find your stuff. I will trigger something out of you. But we all have stuff, but that doesn't, that is not an excuse to put that on other people, and I do think that's. Self-awareness is everything. I, I firmly believe that especially if you are looking to heal, it's one thing to be self-aware though, and it's another to continue these repetitive behaviors and to continue to make those choices because even though your brain is wired for the familiarity, we have the power. Every single one of us has the power to reprogram our brain, just like you program a computer, you can program your brain and. It's not that hard, but delving into the old stuff, those old belief systems, that is difficult. It's like throwing yourself down into the spawns of hell and, and letting them eat you alive. But it feels real good when you can rise out of that. But you can still make those daily choices, do your affirmations and, and choose to act differently and, and go down the new path and see what happens. Take that risk.

Yeah, I totally agree 100%. We all have the choice to come out of this darkness and turn it into light. So going back to you again, when you actually finally decided to leave, I'm curious, and you may just say all three, you know, of things that I'm gonna give you multiple choice question, but you can say, it's not multiple choice, it's all, all of them. What was the hardest part for you? Was it emotionally, like, what's the hardest part for you, or mentally or physically that you felt these traumas carrying over into your new life, even though you're disconnected from your partner physically?

Well, it's interesting, you know, the leaving part. There's a lot of that in the book, so I will leave that if anyone's in the book, but I actually got lucky in a, in a completely pure narcissistic move. I came home from work one day and I, I looked around and There were things missing and then I went upstairs to my office. I passed the master bedroom, and I mean, the bed had been stripped down to the bare mattress, pillows gone. All the pictures were face down. He, he had left me in the middle of the day. Now you see, when I say this is narcissistic is because I was supposed to chase after him and beg him to come back. But I, but I didn't. I locked the door and when my son came home, I said, I'm done. I love you. I know you wanted me to wait until you're done with high school and he had one more year left, and I told him I would wait because he didn't want to be there. He said, I know you're going to divorce Dad, but it's gonna be hell and I don't want to be here for it. I'm like, I'm done. He's out. I'm done. I'm over it. We're done. So that was like a blessing and divine intervention. I could not have manifested if I tried.

Wow, you were lucky that I was very lucky.

So for me, I honestly, I remember in that exact moment though when I realized he was not physically there in the house before it occurred to me that he's playing games. I actually felt bad that I wasn't sad. But I think that's a testament to the I was so worn down emotionally that had manifested physically. By then I had become autoimmune and developed a lung disease as a direct result of the chronic stress of living in fight or flight mode for four decades of my life. I was done. I had no tears. I had, I was honestly just so thankful that I wouldn't have to fight him.

To get the hell out of the house or to have to face the choice of me leaving without my son or having to stay because my son wouldn't come with me. Hm, so it was all three then. It was the emotional, the physical, and the mental. I think it was everything, but I was so glad and I, I realized how lucky I was. That didn't mean it wasn't easy after that because of course there were games and, and things that were done to manipulate me and guilt me and try to coerce me and, and, but I was done. I was done.

Mhm. So what did healing actually look like for you? Because in the first few months or years, were, what were like some of the small steps that you started doing where you could just bring yourself back to yourself. Because now that this narcissist is gone, you are, were you still in the same space, or did you move out?

So we, we had a different situation because he had moved me. I grew up, I was born and raised in Chicago, big city. He, of course, moved me 100 miles out of the city into Podunk cornfield, small town, and, you know, total narcissistic isolation away from everyone and everything. And I remember it was actually the first night of him not being there that same day that I had come home and found him gone and I was not letting him back in. Well, we had a property, we had a farm property, so we had multiple structures, multiple barns, but one of the other structures separate from the main house had an apartment above it. It was not an operable or functioning. The plumbing didn't work or anything, but that's where he stayed. So I wasn't happy about that, and that was a whole thing to get him off the property altogether, but he wasn't in the house, and that was a step out. That was enough for me.

But boy, let me tell you, I mean, I've told this story before, but that first night, I remember I went to the kitchen when it was about dinner time because I had to cook for my. My son and myself. And I remember opening the refrigerator because my ex was very part, I mean, there's rules. There were, there were, he actually wrote down lists of rules for me, but there were unspoken rules and rules I just learned on a whim because he decided them at the split second. But one of the rules was dinner. He could not have, I, I wasn't supposed to cook the same type of meat on two consecutive nights, and there had to be two sides with every meat, and they couldn't both be carbs or both be starches or you, you know what I mean? It was, I had to literally sit down every week and like very carefully, strategically plan the meals and, and.

So I'm standing there, open the refrigerator, thinking, OK, I have to make dinner, and I just remember thinking, F this. I don't have to make a damn thing. I'm going to have ice cream. And I pulled out a pint of ice cream, butter pecan. That's my favorite. And I said, that's what I'm having. And I said to my son, I love you. You let me know what you want. And I don't care what the hell it is, but I will make you whatever you want. And I mean, we laughed about it, but it was, it's such a simple thing, but it was like, I could do what I want. And I remember actually my son and I sat and watched a funny movie on television that night and That was the other thing. My ex was the king of the couch. He would never move from the couch, and God forbid anyone ever wanted to watch anything. He decided what we were gonna, so we're sitting there laughing and everything, and of course I had an email the next day because I think my ex must have been outside. I could see from the window of the apartment he was in, he said, oh, it looks like you two are having a good time without me.

Well, yeah, we, we actually were doing really well over here. Thank you. Like and it made me sad because, you know, it all joking aside, I don't want to be snarky about it, but it goes back to choices. We all have choices. He wasn't the ideal person for me to be with, but we made a life together. All he had to choose was to be kind and respectful to me, and we would have probably still been married now. I'm not saying he was the love of my life, but we would have had a family together, and he could have been sitting there enjoying that funny show that my son and I were watching and enjoying ice cream with us on the couch, but he chose not to. He chose to make our lives miserable. And then continued to, and then he was miserable. And, you know, I, I just, it makes me sad that people actually choose that for themselves and actually choose to behave like that when their children are witnessing this, and to show that as a model of behavior, especially when you only have the one child, like, my gosh, you know, make a little more effort so that his life isn't like yours.

But I guess not everybody thinks that way.

Not at all, especially not a narcissist for him, for him, the only child he has is him himself, and he has all the tantrums in the world that he needs to worry about, and that's why he doesn't worry about anyone else but himself. So that's why they are, you know, considered the most freaking selfish people in the world.

You're right, but you know what's interesting, and you had touched on this before, but as I, you know, came out of that, my physical symptoms of my lung syndrome, I mean, literally, it's like a magic wand. He was gone, they disappeared. I suddenly became healthier again with his absence. Even my son, who is a very, I mean, he's like a grease and oil garage kind of a guy, you know, he's a decent. Mechanic now, no, go figure. But he, he doesn't do like, he's not into spiritual stuff, but even he came home one day and said, wow, the energy is like lighter in here or something, and I laughed because I'm, I'm all, I'm the spiritual girlie, and I'm like, yes, the energy, you could feel it, just the tension was gone. It wasn't thick. It was just, it's like everybody, all the windows had opened themselves. It was amazing.

But the other part of that is that, you know, as much as we see these narcissists do the damage they do, for me personally, and I've I've seen this and heard this from other people who've experienced these relationships, even when a healthy relationship comes into your life, as did, you know, my relationship with my the husband I have now. I saw myself. Having narcissistic tendencies, but it was weird because it wasn't the same as my ex, where he was doing it to control and manipulate. For me, it was almost like I was trying, well, I guess it was a little control, but I needed the chaos to feel safe, the love. Because that's what my nervous system felt was, it was just how we understood love to be.

So, you know, my current husband, I knew his family 20 years and I, I knew him for many years, and we always got along, and, and that's a whole story in itself because the last thing I wanted was to get involved with anybody at all. Never mind get married. But when I decided, you know what, I deserve love, even if it's not forever. Why the hell not? I, I, I, I'm allowed to be happy and have a little fun now, right? So he is the gentlest, sweetest thing you could, I, I, I mean, every, I am married to the guy everybody loves. But it was too nice. It was too healthy. He was too understanding, too kind, too respectful, and I just remember one day, I don't even consciously remember doing it, but I found myself starting up like trying to provoke anger out of him over him asking me to stop and get a bottle of ketchup on the way home because he was grilling out and we were out of ketchup. And it's such a dumb thing. And now that I look back, I'm like, how narcissistic was that, but it's because I needed to feel love. And so I guess in that way I was sort of controlling and manipulative, but it was not an ill-intended. So I think it's different, but I think it's very common for people who've been in narcissistic relationships, and I've had the childhood, especially like I had to, you know, end up kind of repeating some of the same behaviors, but with different intention.

But you know that's part of the healing is is learning and that's part of the self-awareness. I mean, even I remember a month or so ago I shared with a friend I was having this, this, a triggering situation that would come up almost every morning with my husband, but it had nothing to do with him, and it's like I finally, I'm 49 years old and finally realized it had to do with my mother back when I was like 5 years old. And I'm so glad now I understand it because now when I get that squirrely feeling inside and I feel like, OK, I've, I, I recognize the trigger, but I'm not triggered. But at least I know where it's coming from so I can, that's when we start with, you know, the affirmations and things. This has nothing to do with my husband. You're OK, girl. We're not doing that. We're not going there. We don't do that anymore. She does not live here so you know there are ways to get past it, but it takes a lot of practice to now it's just like easy. Easy peasy, no problem, but, you know, it's an ever-present thing. It's not like it just goes away. You don't go to therapy at 2 o'clock every Thursday and suddenly you're healed. I don't believe anybody who actually says they are healed. I think it's a constant effort, as we said, to make the choices, because I'll be honest with you.

As healing, you know, has continued, I, I'm recognizing and being self-aware enough to say that when I have a migraine, when I'm running a fever and I'm terribly ill, when I'm nauseous, when, you know, I'm going through perimenopause too, there are days I have no emotional. Energy left to try to make active efforts to, to do healthy things and say healthy things. So, you know, old Dana comes out once in a while and Dana 2.0, you know, she, she's, she gets a break once in a while, but, But it's still making that conscious effort and knowing and, and I am, you know, at least big enough of a person to go to my husband and say, OK, I, this is where this came from. I can explain this to you, and I'm trying really hard. You know, to make it so that we don't have to go through this again, you know, so thank God he's patient and, and, you know, it has helped. I think we need love to feel love towards ourselves again because I think coming out of those relationships, you, you kind of torture yourself. You almost abuse yourself with the, why did I stay so long? How dumb am I? How could I not have seen it, all these things. And it's like, that's not what you need. You, so it was helpful. I mean, for me, it was my husband, but whether it's a friend, your sister, whoever it is, you know, that person that tells you, no, you know, all these wonderful things and encourages you so that it reminds you that you are still a good person and you are still intelligent and you are enough and all those things until you start believing it yourself.

I, I agree 100%, and that's why it's, it's crazy how even if you leave a narcissist and you are in a newer relationship with a gentle person that you just mentioned, like your husband, you will self-sabotage so many things in the relationship because it doesn't feel real. You're like, is this even real? Are you real? You know, you just question everything and it's actually, that's why you start provoking the same kind of dynamics with your. With your, that you had with the previous version of you with the narcissist and you feel you're narcissistic, but technically you're just self-sabotaging this new relationship because your brain, your brain can't can't comprehend like gentleness and loving relationship. Your brain is like, you know why? because I was. Questioning the niceness and the gentleness and the love as like, oh, he's luring me. He's love bombing me. He's a, I was like, he's a narcissist. I can't trust him. And I remember even after we got married, the issue of trust came up and he said, Well, you trust me, right? I said, no. He said, but we're married. I said, I love you. We're married, but you're not quite at 100% trust yet. That, that'll come with time. But I'll tell you, we've come a long way since then. But it's the self-awareness. It's the self-awareness.

I have to trust myself in order for me to trust another person, and I think that's where people, and, and I don't want to judge anybody because I did the same thing. I thought I got to close myself off. I said, I'm going to get divorced. And go be alone somewhere and get a dog and just live my life like a hermit, you know, and that, that nobody wants to really be alone. Even my husband's dad, who was one of my confidants before I ever even met my husband, honestly, for many years, he said, oh, give me a break, you know, 90 year old man. He's like, you're not gonna go be alone somewhere. You can't be alone. You're only in your 40s, and, you know, then I go marry his son. But it, it was, it was the truth. And why would I want to do that to myself and deprive myself of connection? That's a basic human need. And, and it's just a matter of trusting ourselves enough to discern who we can trust with our hearts.

And you know what, it's a risk, and your heart's going to get broken again, and there's still going to be liars and cheaters and stealers and takers out there. But then by the time the boundaries and you say no, correct, and, yeah, and by the time that happens, you already know it because now the next time you don't get betrayed because you worked on yourself so much, you have so much of self-awareness and so much of self-love that you're like, I see through you. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna deal with this bull crap again, I've done this 25 years. Already of my life.

Yeah. What about women who are listening right now who still are in a silent relationship, or they choose silence over, over, you know, chaos, especially that you mentioned, you always chose to just keep quiet because you felt like you'll be too much, and I know my mom used to do that, my mom used to do that. Maybe just realizing what they have endured, especially when they're talking, I mean, when they're listening to you speaking, what's the first truth they need to know about leaving, Especially if they're thinking of leaving, but they're still quiet, in a crazy freaking relationship with a narcissist, what should they know?

It, it, this is probably not what people expect me to say, but you have to really evaluate if it's safe to leave because You might be able to get out. But will you? Because some of them, I mean, I, I honestly, as, as awful of a, of the behavior that my ex, you know, demonstrated in our relationship and after, I never in a million years, even as violent and rageful as he would, he would get, I never expected that he would actually want to kill me. And so I think it's important to really evaluate, is it safe for me to leave if there are children, if there are animals, that was another, I didn't even go there in the book because there wasn't enough room, but I mean, they will find a way and I have seen and heard things that You know, they, even if you get out, they will find a way to get revenge on you through your children, pets, you know, even your own family. I, we just had an incident out here where we lived this past summer where somebody actually, murdered the parents of the woman who left him, you know, to get back at her. So, we just have to be careful. That's what I would say is be careful. I don't want to scare anybody into staying. But I think only you really know what, what the reality is. So, plan it, be very careful, make sure people are aware of your concerns and your plans and so on and so forth, but definitely have some support. don't be ashamed of sharing, you know, with somebody you trust what's going on so that they're aware and they can help you safely get out children and animals too.

Beautiful, yeah, that's a very great tip. So if I can ask you one final question, what does life look like for Dana today, the woman that she rose from the ashes.

You know, it's funny you say that because it's only been 5 years, just over 5 years since the divorce. And if you would have asked me 5 years ago where I would have been in 5 years, even though I had just divorced him and I felt free and I was excited about what life would be now, I would have never imagined this. And, you know, am I saying that everybody's going to have a fairy tale? I have no idea, but you can. That's the thing. You have to decide what you want and, and when my husband now, you know, came forward and, you know, we got engaged and I wrote a book and then I wrote 3 books and it, it just Life is so beautiful and it's just, I, I would have never in a million years thought I would be where I am. I mean, I'm not working where I was when I left. I'm not like, it's like I literally call it my old life because it's like it didn't even happen. It's weird, but my life now is so completely starkly different. But it's amazing, and I think that even if the fairy tale doesn't happen right away as it did for me, I think it's exciting. It's like an adventure to think like, what do I want to do? Because that was the question that opened the world up to me. What do I want? I knew I wanted to write because I had a degree in journalism. I just couldn't do that because the ex didn't want me to have joy or success or a sense of achievement, God forbid. And I wanted to travel and I wanted to do all these things, and So when my husband came forward and, you know, said that, you know, he had feelings for me, I said, listen, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this. If you want to come along for the ride, let's go. And he said, let, let's go, Bonnie and Clyde, that's what we call ourselves and that's what we're doing. We are living our lives. He is already 60. I'm turning 50, and it doesn't end with that bad relationship. It doesn't end at a certain age. Honestly, for me, life just started.

Beautiful. I'm so happy for you, Dana. This was a wonderful conversation that we had, especially. Our listeners will get a lot from this, that there is hope. You can leave a narcissistic, and if you leave, Dana is one of the best examples. You can learn from her story. So where can our listeners find you?

Absolutely. I would say go to my website, Dana SDiaz.com, and actually if you put your email address in there, you get the first two chapters of gasping. For Air, which is the first book, you get those for free. It's an immediate download too. It comes pretty quick. So, check it out and if you like it, you can shoot over to Amazon, Kindle, or Audible and get that book or get all three if you want, but they're all there. Read them in any order. I kind of went out of order because Gasping for Air was only supposed to be the first one, and then there was a sequel and a prequel, so. , that's where you'll find me. All my socials are on my website as well, so Dana SDiaz.com. Follow me, like me, do all the things, and please, I have to say this, if anyone's listening to this and they know somebody, remember, 1 out of 3 women, if you know somebody who you absolutely know for sure or think is in a. Relationship with somebody, that might not be the best for them, share this episode because coming from you, it might seem a little confrontational, whereas just saying, hey, this was a cool episode, thought you might like to listen to it, something might resonate and maybe they'll decide for themselves that they deserve better.

Thank you, Dana. It was a wonderful show and thank you for all of our listeners for listening to this. Just remember that you can definitely check her out. I'm gonna put the information on the show notes, and to all of our listeners, always remember Metamorphosis, not medication, and Namaste. If this episode spoke to you, then please give us a review on iTunes. I will really appreciate it. And if you felt something. Shift in your chest or your gut, that's not just a podcast moment. That's your soul saying, Hey, we are ready. So head over to dimplebindra.com and take my healing archetype quiz. I'm also going to add the link to my show notes. It's going to help you understand the pattern that's been running your life. The one you didn't even know was there. And once you take the quiz, you'll see a button to join the waitlist for you are awakening. That's my Women's circle, and it's where we do this work together with other amazing sisters. You don't have to heal in silence anymore. I'm so glad you're here, and I'll see you in the next episode. Bye.