the underview.
The underview is an exploration of the shaping of our place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.
The underview is a series of discussions within and about the community of Northwest Arkansas. The underview explores our collective understanding and beliefs about the place we live.
These discussions will include topics that are foundational to the identity of our region, the history of our communities, the truth of conflict with the land and its people, and the current challenges and opportunities for our community.
the underview.
the trailblazers with Victor Gurel (ep 2b, 43)
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In this episode of the underview, we sit down with Victor Gurel, CEO of Trailblazers, the organization shaping how Northwest Arkansas moves, connects, and imagines its future. From singletrack to city streets, Trailblazers leads the region’s effort to design trails, tunnels, and active transportation systems that connect communities through shared infrastructure. Their work reminds us that movement is about more than recreation; it’s about access, equity, and belonging.
Victor reflects on his journey from a gravel road in rural Arkansas to leading one of the state’s most influential organizations in trail and infrastructure development. Through his leadership, Trailblazers is helping Northwest Arkansas see trails not just as amenities, but as essential public spaces that shape how we live, relate, and grow together. This episode explores what it means to build systems of movement that reflect the wholeness of a community, not just its privilege or pace.
https://www.theunderview.com/episodes/the-underview-trailblazers-victor-gurel
About the underview:
The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.
Website: theunderview.com
Follow us on Instagram: @underviewthe
Host: @mikerusch
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We want to escape from town or from urbanism from things being modernized. And we want to live in or experience, if we're talking about us as bike riders, a more slow pace of life where you can take things in, where you can pay attention to the wildflowers without getting ran over, or where you can quite literally stop on the side of the road as I do regularly and either pick persimmon up, or pick blackberries, whatever it is. It's a slow down pace of life. I know that the people that I'm sharing that space with really want the exact same thing. And I think that's becoming more and more clear. I think that when we first descended on, on the gravel roads, I think that the initial reaction was that we're going to take over the space that it would influence more change and I think that it's becoming more clear that we actually want the exact opposite. We want those spaces to stay the way they are the same the way that they do.
mike.:Well, you're listening to the underview, an exploration and the shaping of Our Place. My name is Mike Rusch. Today we're talking about the trails that connect northwest Arkansas together, not just as path of recreation, but as routes towards belonging. In the last two episodes, we have dug deep into what happens when cyclists leave the city and enter the rhythms of rural Arkansas. The unspoken trust or distrust and the power of a small but mighty wave of the hand, and the hope that the shared gravel roads can become a common ground. And we have heard about the Arkansas Rural Recreational Roads Initiative, the R3 initiative, a potential way for how gravel roads can connect people who have long felt disconnected, reminding us that inclusion is built mile by mile and neighbor by neighbor. These stories remind us that the roads and the trails that we travel aren't just lines on a map. They're pathways between people, each road an opportunity to bridge the distance that history or politics or misunderstandings may have created. Trails become the quiet spaces where we can begin to see each other again. The farmer and the cyclist, the long-term resident and the newcomer, the rural and the urban, they teach us something sacred about pace and patience and proximity. When we share these spaces with mutual respect, in mutual responsibility, they can become a kind of counterweight to the forces trying to divide us. They remind us that belonging can't always be built through agreement, but it can be built on something stronger, our presence and through the small, repeated acts of choosing to share the roads and paths together. Today, we continue that conversation. I would call it a journey. And this time we sit with Victor Gurel, who is the CEO of Trailblazers. Trailblazers is an organization helping to shape how this region moves, connects, and imagines its future. Trailblazer sits at the intersection of design, development, and belonging, building, and designing the trails and the tunnels and the greenways that define not only how we move through northwest Arkansas, but how we move toward one another. How we use trails to prioritize access and inclusion in our shared spaces. Victor's story begins on a gravel road in rural Arkansas and it winds its way to Bentonville. Where he now leads an organization reimagining what it means to build community through access and equity and connection. Together, Victor and I are gonna talk about the link between rural and urban life, about trails as spaces of inclusion and repair, and about what it takes to create systems of movement that reflect the wholeness of a community, not just its privilege or its pace. All right, we've got a whole lot to work through today. Let's get into it. Well, I have the privilege today of sharing a table with Victor Gurel, who's the CEO of Trailblazers. Victor, welcome to this conversation. I'm really excited to have you here.
victor gurel.:Thanks, man. I'm glad to be here.
mike.:When I think of you, Victor, I think number one I, I, I owe you like a public thank you for saving my life. We were in a plane a couple years ago out riding the Telluride Gravel
victor gurel.:Yep.
mike.:Event. And the landing gear wouldn't go down. And Victor, who's a pilot, jumped up there and solved the whole problems. And well, it's more to it than that, but Victor, thanks for saving my life and not letting us be in a plane crash together.
victor gurel.:You're welcome. I remember looking back to you all, and I think you were facing me when I turned around and said, Hey, the landing gear won't come down, but don't worry, everything's gonna be fine. And then looking at the expression on everyone's face as as I said that, and I meant it, but it's, I realized it that it didn't seem that way at the time.
mike.:Yeah, when you say the landing gear won't go down to me, that and you just turned around like it was no big deal, and I'm like, well, this is how it all ends for me.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:What I, what we came to learn later is that you can't actually land a plane without its landing gear. But I didn't know that at the time.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:And you didn't tell us that until we were on the ground either. But anyway. Okay. So thanks for saving my life, first of all.
victor gurel.:You're welcome.
mike.:But Victor it's great to sit with you. You're at the helm of Trailblazers. Maybe before we get into all of that tell me a little bit about your background and where you're from. And I know you are an avid cyclist, please feel free to include that as well too.
victor gurel.:Yeah. I start, so I was born in Clarksville, Arkansas. Interestingly on the Yarborough Peach Experiment station, where my dad was working at the time. Born in the employee housing there. Then grew up in very rural Arkansas. In between the best way to describe it is if you drew a triangle between Pelsor Arkansas, Witt springs Arkansas and and Dover, Arkansas would've been right in the middle of that triangle, 10 miles of gravel road to get to the closest highway. And then you were nowhere another 10 miles to get to er store or thereabout. Very rural grew up riding horses, hunting, fishing, all the things that, that a kid that grows up in rural Arkansas does. And then I was about 17, moved to a Russellville. And that's where my working career that in involved being a mechanic first and a maintenance supervisor, then becoming a millwright. And I guess my first bike was a mountain, a gt mountain bike that my mom purchased for me, was working all the time. Not a very happy person. In, not in a great relationship. And my health was taking a downturn at that point. And I was young. I was, 21. Started riding, lost some weight, really got into cycling. Then ended up meeting my wife, got married, had kids, and really just career took the place of any extra time that I had. We did ride a considerable amount, or I'm sorry, rode a little as a family. M ostly as my kids got old enough to ride, we'd ride the greenway a lot, but really my cycling started from getting was trying to get life insurance. We were in the throes of growing our business at, custom electronics and a lot of stress. And took a blood test for life insurance and they gave me an, are you an alcoholic questionnaire? And at the time, I'd like, drinking anything ever was a very rare occasion for me. And it just turned out that I, one of the people that, that being overweight gives you fatty liver disease, whether you're drinking or not, doesn't matter. And so decided I needed to get in shape and lose weight. Bought a road bike at the bike route in Fayetteville and would put my family to bed and ride the greenway, from our house by the botanical gardens in east Fayetteville down to the south end of it at the time. And, be at night, nine to 11 o'clock at night. And I would do that every night and slowly got faster and did my, started doing my first few road races. That was the only thing I was riding at the time, and finished dead last at most of them. And just kept going and, getting faster and enjoying it more and more. And, really from there, I had caught the bug at that point. The more that I rode, the better I felt, the better my health improved. And it just became a, it was a lifesaver for me. It truly was both in terms of, when I rode a bike, I would ride hard enough that I couldn't think about anything else other than riding the bike. So it wasn't meditation, but it was the closest thing that I knew to meditation. And really, from that point started mountain biking. Loved that, started gravel riding. And I would say at this point, my racing days are completely over. I'll join in an event that is considered to be a race, but I have no interest in competition. I really am much more involved at this point just for the community that I have in. In, and in all honesty, if I took away the, from the list of my friends that I have currently everyone who rides a bike. There wouldn't be anybody left. It's it really, my entire friend group, my closest peer, friends are people that I ride bikes with. That's, they enjoy the same thing. And it's definitely a huge part of my life.
mike.:Well, and growing up on gravel roads and now coming here to Northwest Arkansas and I can't keep up with you on a bike, but, so I don't know that your racing days are technically over or maybe, maybe I've just gotta get up at nine or I have to be up at nine.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:And that late to keep up with you, but Yeah, I love that. What does, growing up in maybe that part of Arkansas on those gravel roads and where you are today and reconnecting with this place, how do you feel like that has shaped your, maybe your sense of belonging to Northwest Arkansas?
victor gurel.:I think that, there are times when when I'm, in town as we would call it, growing up in rural Arkansas, when I'm in town it, there are definitely times where I feel like I don't necessarily even fit in. I just it's still a challenge living in a subdivision. If you grow up in a rural area, you're, you like being able to do what you want the way you want, not having the rules of POAs or city code. You get to to live a very different life. And I would say that's part of what mountain biking and gravel riding, which are the two things that I do the most now. I, that's what I feel like they offer me when I'm on a, a mountain bike ride, it truly just feels like I'm hiking on a bike, like I'm walking out through the woods. The same as if I was going hunting or doing anything else. I'm taking in nature. There's there and we're fortunate enough that the way our trail system, not only can you leave right from town and be on it, but you also feel like you're in the middle of nowhere for the most part. The way that the trails are woven through Bella Vista and through, hand cut hollow and even Park Springs right in the middle of Bentonville or Coler. Those green spaces that we have are really unique. So I feel like it, I connect there on gravel. It's it, that's where I really feel at home because it, it's, that's, that is the setting that I grew up in. It's a very much slowed down pace of life. It's no one's in a hurry. It, it's, finding a, the random loaded down pear tree at the end of summer. That and getting to eat a piece of fruit off of a tree, like out or picking blackberries off the south the road. Those are the things that to me, make me feel really connected to, to where I live.
mike.:Well, and you've been out there a lot. You've spent a lot of time, you're probably well past your 10,000 hours. Oh yeah. Out on the bike out there. It, I think, recently we've been having conversations just sometimes about the, oh, I hate to use the word conflict, the maybe the clash of different understandings of people between cycling and more rural, if you would call them, communities, and I would assume you see that out there from time to time. I'd love your assessment of maybe where are we from a cultural standpoint is the conflict something that is, growing? Is it something that. Has been steady or maybe even your opinion growing up and living in both environments. Where does that come from? How why does this keep coming bubbling to the surface?
victor gurel.:I would say, thinking about myself and how I grew up and how I viewed everyone that didn't live on Forest Road 1000 interestingly called Victor Road, and no, it wasn't named after me and I wasn't named after it. But when I think about growing up on that road and what my own experience was like, everyone who we saw on our dirt road that didn't live on that road, we saw as an outsider. If it was someone we didn't recognize, they were someone from town. Who was, out essentially interrupting our space. That's what it felt like as a, even as a kid. And I don't know that anyone necessarily taught me that or ever said that to me, but that's just how it felt. There the swimming hole was usually just hours only. If it was Memorial Day weekend, there were a bunch of people there that, this was our swimming hole, not theirs. And so I think that I experienced that side of it. And if I think about me now as a cyclist out on these same dirt roads that are someone else's dirt roads, for the most part. I think that there is some conflict. I would say I think it's getting better, not worse. I would say it's getting significantly better. And I think that part of what causes or what's causing that improvement or leading to things getting better is that what we as a, as gravel cyclists want and what the folks that live on those dirt roads want are essentially the same thing. We want to escape from town or from urbanism from things being modernized. And we want to live in a or experience if we're talking about us as bike riders a more slow pace of life where you can take things in, where you can pay attention to the wildflowers without getting ran over, or where you can quite literally stop on the side of the road as I do regularly and either pick persimmon up, or pick, blackberries, whatever it is. It's a slow down pace of life. It's, I don't have to worry about someone running over me in a car. I know that the people that I'm sharing that space with really want the exact same thing. They want their dog to be able to lay in the front yard and not get run over. They want their chickens to be able to be out in the, across the street or to drive a tractor down the road without having to worry about someone honking at 'em or slowing things down. They were essentially after the same thing. And I think that's becoming more and more clear. I think that when we first descended on, on the gravel roads, in the, whatever past few years, gravel riding really wasn't much of a thing before that. Locally. I think that the initial reaction was that we're, going to take over the space or that we're going to, that there would, it would influence more change when the I and I think that it's becoming more clear that we actually want the exact opposite. We want those spaces to stay the way they are the same the way that they do. We want traffic to be slower. We want the the roads to be used or even be able to be used for something else other than just, moving cars from point A to point B.
mike.:Yeah. Victor, thank you. As I listen to those words, I'm like, yes. Yeah. I've done the same thing and I feel like that is a really great yeah. Perspective to carry with you and I find myself Yeah. Really understanding where you're coming from there. That's what I would want everyone to find in those spaces. I'd love to understand how you take that perspective. You're leading trailblazers today. Let's dig into this because you are a part of building and creating and maintaining not only the infrastructure side of that, but how people get access to trails, what that looks like from belonging. So maybe give us a perspective of the journey that led you to trailblazers and, and a little insight into the top line view of what your goals are. Where were you wanting to take trailblazers and kind of the work that you're trying to move forward.
victor gurel.:I ended up there really retired in July of 23 from the company I started. And took about 18 months of just quite literally riding my bike almost every single day. And then started looking around at the cycling community and really just northwest Arkansas in general and saying, man, I love this place that it from the most rural areas, from Madison County, Benton County, Washington County, to the cities and the opportunities we have here. And I love being able to be in on a mountain bike trail, but I also love having great medical care whenever I need it. And the economy that comes along with growth. It has certainly, it's what allowed me to retire at 47. It was a huge impact in my life and just wanted to find some way to give back to the community. So I started looking around for, where can I plug in? Is there a board that I can sit on? Is there somewhere I can volunteer? And that's what led me to Trailblazers join the board there in January. Not too long after that CEO Erin Rushing who had, has, truly in one way or another, has been responsible for most of the Greenway and Mountain bike trail that we have in, in, in some manner that just really poured his life into, to to all the great trails that we have in the trail network, the everything that we've seen. And then, so he resigned and decided to do something different in January. And there was an a. I was intending to just fill the position temporarily. But after getting there and meeting the team and getting to do something, I'd never been in a situation where I was getting to do something that I truly loved as a job. Everything up to that point was, what can I do to make a living? So then the real focus for me joining Trailblazers was to help Trailblazers following the merger with Bike NWA in 2020 had really become, the best analogy is a jack of all trades, master of none, where things, the team was spread so thin with so little focus on a specific area that they weren't able to achieve the results that they wanted in all of those areas. And so when I started the initial goal both for myself and from the board was how do we narrow our focus to get back to what Erin started with years ago that trailblazers, was phenomenal at? And that was the design development and then, and the maintenance of the trail system as well as playing truly the key role in active infrastructure development, the greenways, the, shared bike lanes, all the other things that, that we need to move people on something other than just being in a car around the city. And we need it, especially in a scenario where the city's infrastructure compared to its growth is, I would say behind, I would probably say woefully behind. But it just is. So the more of those people we can move around on foot or on bikes, the better off it is not just for the cyclists from a health and enjoyment perspective or the pedestrians who, want to have a place to, that they can walk to get what they need. But even more importantly, for the automobiles, if the fewer cars there are on the road, the better it is for the cars that are still on the road. And that's part of what a active infrastructure provides for us. And so that, that is still our continued focus. It's really, we are still very actively involved in developing more new trail that, and we're shifting our focus a little bit now to more specific types of trail like we're working on, true beginner trail. Like some of what around the Greenway in Coler or what in Slaughter Pen where someone who doesn't know anything about mountain biking and would just like to try to see what it's like to ride on dirt. How did they get started? Because you can't just go to back 40 or to blowing springs and on a mountain bike if you've never done it before and feel comfortable, you won't. And so we're focusing specifically on where can we get more of the snowbird trails or the Tweety bird trails where anyone on a bike, no matter what their skill level is, can make it around it and have fun and go, oh yeah, maybe I do want to do more of this. And then also some focus on using the greenways, not just, we have a fairly good network now we can move down some major streets. But we're now really focusing on trying to, and this is not, it's our focus because it's our funders focus, is to how can we start connecting the, more outlying communities and subdivisions and then specifically those subdivisions to their schools. How do we help kids have some other way to get to school safely without just riding a bus or their parents sitting in a pickup drop off line?
mike.:Okay. There's a whole lot there. I wanna dig into that. And by the way, snowbird and Tweety bird, those are the names of the trails.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:We're gonna find out who gets to name those trails at some point. Yeah. But alright, talk to me about let's get into this because I feel like this is really important. These are mountain bike trails, single truck trails that are obviously northwest Arkansas is building and has been building a tremendous infrastructure. But you're also in this urban space too, of connecting.
victor gurel.:That's right.
mike.:So like how do you balance or how do, what's, is there a common strategy amongst all of those trail development in what you're trying to accomplish as far as moving people or giving access to those trails? Help me connect the dots, because to me, I think traditionally, most people would think of those two things as very separate kind of infrastructure projects and not connected yet. As I listen to you, you're involved actively in the development of both of those spaces. How do they work together? Or are they still separate?
victor gurel.:Yeah, they're definitely separate in a way, but also very connected. They're very connected in the fact that, to me, I want everyone to ride a bike. Not necessarily all the time. I'm, I, have cars and everyone's, I think that we still live in a country where cars are a necessity. We're not there yet. I think that would be great if we were, I think it'd be great if there was better public transportation and we could get by with less vehicle traffic, but. I would say the reason that I want everyone to be on a bike has a couple of different key components to it. One is that if someone rides a bike, if their kid rides a bike, I don't care whether it's on the Greenway or they're an avid mountain bike or they ride gravel, they look a little bit closer when they're, making a right turn out of a parking lot across a greenway , or they're a little bit more courteous to a cyclist. I think that the more people that ride bikes, no matter what the discipline is it makes it safer for everyone involved, including the motorists. Motorists do not wanna be involved in a pedestrian accident. It's the, of all the accidents we can have. It's the worst thing that, that, that can happen to us as a driver. So it, to me, it's better for everyone. Now, the other place that I feel like it's that there's a lot of crossover or there's a lot of similarity, or, a general or common strategy is that. If you look at someone who rides a bike for the first time, it's probably gonna be a, what we would call a city bike. Something that's a very relaxed, comfortable fit, maybe has a few gears, maybe not. And it's really just intended to ride on mostly level ground and get you from point A to point B. Someone who starts out riding that's generally not going to be the only bike that they end up owning. They're gonna start riding that, then they're probably going to get a mountain bike later to get involved in something else. It's, it's truly unique in the fact that once you get started in one area, you just seem to trend into the others. Some people don't. Some people will be comfortable riding the greenway forever. They also are very common in how they are intended to be. I guess a, an escape from the hustle and bustle, or an escape from the norm as just a way of recreating. If you ride the greenway, yes, you're gonna run into a lot of commuters, some people very intent on getting to where they're going, but you're also gonna pass, scores of families out there with mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, the kids, everybody or, just see a parent and their child out riding. Whether it's on mountain bike trails or whether it's on the greenway, they're really providing both groups, or collectively the entire group with a way to, to enjoy something that's active that they can all do together. It's not if your kid's involved in soccer, that's not a bad thing, but you sit on the bench while your kid's playing soccer or whatever other sport, cycling's different. You get to go, the whole family gets to do it together. Everybody gets the same benefit from it. So it's pretty unique in that way.
mike.:Yeah, I love that. I think that's super helpful in thinking through like the that we do need a comprehensive strategy in what trail development and access looks like. I'm curious, there's been so much development probably over the past 10 years especially, and yet there's still a whole lot left to do. Yeah. So I'm curious on like your perspective on the progress that's been made and then maybe what the opportunities ahead are looking like.
victor gurel.:Let's talk about the active infrastructure first because I feel like it's the place where the greatest need still is. We, we arguably don't need more mountain bike trail. Do we want it? Of course. We want, and we and that's, we probably do need more beginner trail or we need some unique experience trail to, to try to blend it. But where I think the biggest need is in the, on the active infrastructure side and that looks a lot like really connecting those communities. Like how do we get someone from the southwest corner of town, which is where a lot of our focus is now, how do we move, all those neighborhoods that kind of spread out towards the airport and over towards, uh, Centeron. How do we start making them feel like they can get on their bike and ride to downtown Bentonville if they want? Whether that's for leisure, for dinner, for work, whatever it is, how do we open up that space? And again, I mentioned it before, but how do we help kids be able to have some way to get to school safely without having to ride on the road? And as much as we can not even have to cross a road, that would be ideal. We're focusing a lot on tunnels. We just finished one on 14th Street. We're starting the other one just south of the campus. To be able to allow someone to go up the greenway and never have to cross 14th Street, which is big. That's a big deal. Yeah, it's a four. It's a four lanes plus a turn lane. You've, you it's a, it's not a great place to cross. And we're, we've got a lot of other tunnel projects that we're, really trying to push into now to see where else can we put tunnels that will both do two things. If you think about a commuter, if they can go under that road and never stop, rather than sitting, at a five or six minute light, they might cut their commute time in half. So we're looking at ways to keep people from having to cross on street connections and being able to slide their way underneath the road on a, in a tunnel and go with it.
mike.:Can I make a request for a tunnel? Yeah. The one northeast a street, which I feel like we need a tunnel through northeast a street because there's no in or out of Bentonville without climbing a hill. Yeah. And so I'm getting a little too old or I will be too old. Yeah. No, I, in all seriousness, the, those kinds of infrastructure projects really do make a difference. And I find myself today, even moving around in our own city, it's easier, it's more efficient, it's quicker to do so on a bike than it is in a car. And I think it's because of some of these infrastructure projects that really allow that.
victor gurel.:It's massive. I can make I live on northeast a right where it turns to gravel and then and then our office is on the south end of the Bentonville airport. I can make it there within two minutes of the same time on my bike versus being in a car. But I can do it consistently every single time on my bike, where if I'm in a car. It could swing easily 10 minutes one way or the other, depending on what traffic is like.
mike.:Yeah, I think Victor, these infrastructure projects are really important. Just because I think for so long our cities have been built around this idea of the necessity of a car. And I think we're frankly, in northwest Arkansas, we're probably paying the price for that today. Yeah. And so I know there's a lot of projects that can be done, but stick with me. I'd love to hear more about what you see maybe the opportunities for our region is around why this kind of investment is really something that should be I would argue at the really high on our priority list around infrastructure development.
victor gurel.:Well, so to, when I think about it, I've thought, was thinking about it this week even in terms of I've on the way to airship pump house, there's a still a few signs out that are somewhat political messaging, to the mayor, to, "Hey mayor, let's build sidewalks." Oh, I've seen those. Yeah. And so when you think about what active infrastructure can do, look our city's got a lot. They're doing a lot, and they're, in my opinion, I think they're doing a great job in doing the best they can to get caught up with of aging cities or aging city infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt. They've gotta rebuild, water facilities, they've gotta rebuild sewer facilities. There's, roads that need to be built and improved and they're doing as much as they can, as fast as they can. And we all want the improvements. We also wanna keep our taxes at a reasonable level as well. So it's like we, we want our cake and we want to eat it too. But I think the reason that those are become so important is if you think about a greenway connecting a neighborhood, or you think about some of the things that Bentonville moves has focused on, like slow streets or safe streets,
mike.:those are great initiatives.
victor gurel.:Yeah. And what those really do is they are a, a stop gap, I guess is the way that I would say it. If we tried to go into every neighborhood in Bentonville that doesn't have a sidewalk, or it still has that two foot wide sidewalk and try to make that something that a wheelchair could even go down, it'd be near impossible. And the amount of time that it will take to accomplish that, if we started doing it today it would be too late, it would be too little, too late the way that most road infrastructure projects end up. So where I feel like that that that really becomes helpful. Is it allows you if I, maybe I can't build the sidewalk, but maybe I can install a little bit of infrastructure to slow down cars, lower the speed limit, make things safer for people to, if they are walking in the street, that cars are slowed down enough that they're not gonna get run over. That, that and that we have, it's easier to build one 12 foot path Greenway that can connect some different neighborhoods. So maybe they have to walk in the street to get to the greenway, but then they have the greenway to get from, close to their neighborhood to downtown. It. I, that's where they really have the biggest value to me is connecting those in ways where they couldn't otherwise be connected.
mike.:You, you had talked a little bit earlier about how you're trying to connect kind of some of these main hubs, for lack of better word, or some of the probably bigger cities with some of the outlying cities, which, yeah, when you look at what's happening in Western Benton County the sprawl there, yeah. Has been a lot. And so I think that's probably exacerbated a lot of the infrastructure problems. I'm curious, as you look at this, maybe, oh, I don't know, this transition from a more urban environment into those rural, or I hate to say formerly rural communities, how do you look at that, those transition zones or maybe the priority of what moving people looks like to bridge and frankly to maybe help solve in my opinion, some of those issues around sprawl or density. How does that come across your radar as a concern and the problems you're trying to solve?
victor gurel.:Yeah, it does. And I would say that if I was gonna list kind. Order of priority when it comes to active infrastructure projects it's probably first connecting communities like connecting Bentonville to Bella Vista or Bentonville to Rogers, or Rogers to Springdale and Fayetteville and so on. Bentonville to, Centerton and it, so I would say that's probably priority number one, because that gets you, if you can make it to the Greenway and Bella Vista then at least you can get from there to Bentonville. If you can make it from the, from, the Southwest side of Bentonville, back to the main Greenway system or the Razorback Greenway, now you can, commute quite well or, make it from point A to point B. And then after that, the next order of priority to me is really how do we connect. I'm gonna, call 'em communities. Still smaller communities, subdivisions or even very large subdivisions or groups of subdivisions where you've got a lot of density and population. They may even have sidewalks, in fact they probably do have sidewalks, but they still can't really get from their group of subdivisions in a densely populated area over to the greenway. So then it's connecting some of those. And I would say along with that, as we're planning those routes in, there's a large focus on how do we help get them to school? Like how do we connect this neighborhood to school? How do we con along the way? So as we're bringing these outlying communities in what was a formerly a rural area, and connecting them to the greenway, how do we also have that green stop by the schools or go to the community center or end up going by a grocery store. Something that, that can allow it to be used for more than just recreation, truly for transportation.
mike.:Yeah. And I think some of the work that's been done, I believe Beville Moves has been leading this around the work around bike to school weeks. Yeah. And some of the bike trains that are going in, some really, those have been looks like incredibly successful. So maybe the demand and the need is there and their people, it peers are really leaning into those types of opportunities is different ways.
victor gurel.:Yeah. I think they do. I think that really what Bentonville moves to me, the not having any significant involvement in oth other than being, a, involved citizen that lives in Bentonville. What they really do is join together all the little small groups. A group that wants to be able to walk their kids to school. A someone that wants to be able to commute it from home to work. They really take all those small groups and help bring together a unified voice. Look the city leaders, if they're, doing their job or listening to the constituents and trying to apply what's important to them, that's what they're hired to do. That's what they do for the most part, but if there isn't a unified voice saying, Hey, we would, this is something that's actually important to us, how does the city leader ever know that's something that you know, that they should focus on? And really, to me, that's what Bentonville moves does. It brings together all the true. Small grassroots groups and then helps bring that together as one unified voice so that the city leaders know, oh, this is something that's important to, to our residents or it's not, and it also bentenville moves also. And I think that this part's important, especially in the political landscape. While they don't, there is no real political work that they do. It, as we all know, it's generally the one loud negative voice for or against any topic, it just doesn't matter. But it's the one loud voice that tends to drown out the rest of the more reasonable like-minded groups. It the consensus usually doesn't do much speaking. It's usually the one loud person that does the speaking, and they're not representative of the con, the, of the public at large. So when, what they do to me is bring together that voice so that if there's an initiative to, to build a greenway or to install a tunnel or, to lower a speed limit, something that there's someone that, that there's a voice to offset whatever that one loud negative voice is that, that either doesn't want change, things to change, whether for the better or worse, just don't want things to change.
mike.:Yeah, tremendous work. No doubt. I wanna ask too, as you think about this kind of trail development, one thing that really caught my eye because I've seen this working. There was a film at Bentonville Film Festival this past year called Beyond the Ashes, which was really around trail development for adaptive mountain biking. And the term was used universal design. I would love to understand your perspective of this idea of building trails inclusion. You talked about building trails that are more for entry level that everybody can use. But thi this film was really focused on how are you creating trails that truly not just you know, regular cyclists, but people who need a different trail design. Yeah. I unpack this for me 'cause I think it's fascinating.
victor gurel.:Specific to that just to because I think that it was. I don't know if it was him specifically that was the catalyst for, but our former trail crew manager, Uriah Nazario he was very active in, in helping make a lot of that happen. And, was really the one that anything I know about it was, he was the one that taught me. And it really is just a it's not even a, it's like most things in life you can't build. Everything for everyone. That's not reality. But there are oftentimes when we can with very small shifts in how we do things, build things for more of everyone. And that's really what the adaptive trails do is take a trail that, a lot of what's at the castle in Bentonville, that's more of the jump trail style. And then even a lot of the, well, I guess in, in truth, everything that's at the skills park, maybe minus the large drops, is in, is intended to be adaptive trail as well. And really what we mean when we say that is that someone who's in a three wheel bike something, either without the use of their their legs or it's, looks like a modified recumbent bike to anyone who knows what a recumbent bike looks like. But it's a fairly easy lift to be able to make a trail, be able to be used by people that couldn't have trails otherwise. And it, the same thing is true all of the beginner trails that, what we would call a beginner trail is also trail that caters very well to that, that same group. And it's important if we, if I think about all the things that I've said about how cycling changed my life. The same thing is true for someone even if they've been paralyzed from the, their waist down or whatever the it is that, that has caused them to not be able to ride a traditional mountain bike. They still have stress too. They still need a way to unplug and connect with nature. The same thing is true. That's what a, something like those trails or the greenway through Coler does. Someone can be in a wheelchair or in a motorized wheelchair and make their way through there and feel like that they're in a state park. It's, it having those spaces where they can be purposefully built and designed to, again, we can't make every trail that way. That's not practical, but we can do our part to make make sure that there is some space for that. And I think Bentonville and Bella Vista have done a great job of that.
mike.:Well, I'm a huge fan and I think and shame on me, that film really opened my eyes in a way that I feel like I'm trying to pay attention, but it really revealed to me like the importance of this and the fact that trailblazers is thinking, has been thinking through that for a long time. And there are trails that already exist to accommodate people to be included and to feel like they belong within that cycling community. Gosh, I just, I love hearing that, and so thank you for that work. Yeah. I please keep doing it.
victor gurel.:I, honestly, prior to that film, I had no idea that film was the when I started at Trailblazers. I had never heard of the idea or, had no idea. And it was really just Uriah explaining the video to me. And then once you explained the video, of course, that led to me understanding more of oh yeah, it makes sense. I can see why that would be important, see why it would be important. And I could see why. That's still. I think that speaks to the North Star or the very essence of what makes cycling to me the great, whether it's sport, leisure, activity health advancement, whatever you want to, whatever it is for you, what makes it unique? If we think about NICA, think about NICA and it as a high school sport. What other high school sport is there? No such thing as a bench. There is no bench in high school. Mountain biking. I never thought about it that way. That's right. There's no bench. Every parent that takes their kid to a game, if their kid's involved in NICA, watches their kid play, it that, that's huge. Ev there is, there are no participation trophies. But it, but at the same time, it doesn't matter whether you come in dead last, if you complete that race, your team gets a point for you being there and competing. You count, you matter. You're included in the, there isn't a, you made team or you didn't make team. Everybody makes the team. They do have programs that can be where someone can be involved in just ride. But every kid that races, whether it's their first race and they're the slowest person, or whether they're the fastest, they're contributing to their team success. And it's in a big way. That to me is at the heart of what cycling is. It is something that everyone can do. Gnargo bikes. I dunno if you've seen their trishaw that they made where they made a modified rickshaw. So instead of the basket being in the back, the basket's in the front. Looks cool, has a bench in it, but it's specifically designed so that you can roll a wheelchair in it without, if you want to take an elderly person on a bike ride you don't have to worry about even transferring them from their wheelchair, which, may be more than you want to, be involved in lifting someone that's, your same body weight and getting hurt or hurting them. But you can literally fold the seat up, roll a wheelchair in it, strap it on, and take someone, from their home or from a nursing facility or a retirement community out on the greenway to go on a ride. Like it, it truly is something that everyone can be a part of if they want to. And to me that's what creates the belonging or the community around it.
mike.:Well, and I just hearing you remind me of the Gnargo bikes and the work Springers are doing. I've seen Bentonville moves at a great video Yeah. That, that really showcases this. And I had tears in my eyes watching this. I'll make sure to link Yeah. That video into the episode notes because I think it is a incredible example of exactly what you're talking about. And so I love that.
victor gurel.:I'm very passionate. O once Jessica introduced me to it through that video with Bentonville moves I Daphne and I have decided that we're gonna start funding one hopefully one a year. And getting, my commitment to my wife is, I'll make sure that I have volunteers lined up to use them so that they don't just, we don't just buy them and they go to a retirement community and not get used, but
mike.:sign me up as a volunteer.
victor gurel.:Yeah. What a great way to, to me it's also one of the ways that when I think about how do we connect. All of us together with something like cycling, I'm imagining, that I don't know. I'm a farmer. I'm a rancher. I'm something, I'm someone who could, the last thing on my mind is cycling. Don't care anything about it. I'm imagining going to see my mom or dad at a nursing facility and finding out that somebody showed up this week and took 'em. They're wheelchair bound. They can't get out of their wheelchair and took them on a ride down the greenway on a spring day when the Dogwoods are blooming or the red buds are out, or the flowers are booming. Like the the amount of impact that has to connect us all is just, it's incredible.
mike.:I love that vision of cycling and I think one of the things that, it, it reminds me, I think in some ways that I feel like we have this history and this is not a northwest Arkansas thing. I think this is true. Around the country that many times our trails, I would say they, they can mirror the inequities of our communities.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:And so when we think about this idea of inclusion or belonging or the culture building of that I think this also brings to mind what that does for those that may not be those. And you talked about this a little bit, that may not be those traditional cyclists, that maybe the cycling is a part of their commute to get to a job, and that's the only way that they have access to it. Or it gives them the opportunity to get into more affordable housing situations or access to healthcare, or access to education. I'd love your perspective on how you think about that dynamic as well, and how trail development can enable or is enabling people who maybe we wouldn't think of as traditional cyclists.
victor gurel.:We talked about this I talked about this a little bit with Joe Wilson, but I think that there's a. I believe it's a a misunderstanding of, I frequently hear cycling described as a rich person's sport. And yeah, truly, if you want to own the best mountain bike or the best gravel bike that money can buy, they're expensive. They're more expensive, the motorcycles, it's ridiculous how expensive they are, to be honest. But if what you want is a bike to get to and from work on, they're not expensive at all. Comparatively, I'm, I'll use a smartphone as an example because I think if I compared it to, to anything else, but Walmart has a phenomenal mountain bike to get ride up and down the greenway on and even do some of the beginner trails. In fact, it would be arguably twice the quality of the first, mountain bike that I owned, that I bought from a bike shop just because of how technology's advanced. But that's $400. That's the price or half the price of an iPhone or and the price of most Android phones. That's something that people can afford. And another thing that Bentonville Moves has done is started or restarted the bike friendly businesses workshops, explaining to businesses what is it, what does it mean to help make your business something that people can commute to. Or if it's your, if it's a restaurant or a, a retail location, what does it mean to, to make it your business friendly to someone that wants to bike there, to do their shopping? And it matters. In front of Trailblazer's office, we've got a bike rack. I don't think any of us actually even park our bikes. I don't remember. We keep most of our bikes inside, but. It's, I've noticed since I've worked there, it started in the spring, well, I kept noticing a bite being chained up outside and I couldn't figure out whose it was. And it would be gone, it would be there when I knew no other staff was there. It would be gone at times when I knew, there was no one had come and gone. And then realized that it's actually someone that works at a neighboring business that, rides their bike to work almost every single day. And, it's, that's important for 'em. It does make, that is how they get to and from work. It's either walking or riding a bike. The other things that I think help make it more inclusive are like, if you look at the front of Ozark, regional Transits buses, they all have bike racks on 'em. Just like you would find in a big city where if you've biked as far as you can and now, or to where you needed to get on a bus, then you can, or maybe you biked from your subdivision to a bus stop and now you're going to Springdale or Fable it. It is very much something that, that is inclusive for everyone.
mike.:Victor I love hearing that because I do believe strongly in, in the ability for trails to really level the playing fields economically and socially, physically in many ways for people to have access to, to the things that everybody should have access to. And so I love hearing how you talk through and describe the philosophy behind that. One of the things that we've talked about in a lot of previous episodes is this connection to the land. And I, I feel strongly as well, I feel strongly about a lot of things, obviously, but
victor gurel.:me too.
mike.:Yeah. One of these ways of this idea of belonging in trail systems that it, what I have found, and I've heard you describe this too, is that, on a bike we're moving at a different speed. We're seeing the land, we're seeing people in a different way. No, no surprise to anyone. Northwest Arkansas has some really deep layers around history.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:That are some pretty hard stories. And as we think about trail development or the gravel roads that we've all ridden how do you think about this idea of trail development and really honoring the land and the place and the names of these places. The history aspect of what happens that allows us to really connect in a, maybe a different dimension than most people are thinking about.
victor gurel.:I I'll speak to the mountain biking part of it first. I think that this is something that's often overlooked by people that grew up the way that I did that, that's, still hunt and fish and enjoy outside period, regardless of what it's like. One of the big benefits we get from, the way that we build mountain bike trails is we're, very much preserving that space as being green space for forever. The time is coming, whether any of us like it or not, and I think most of us don't like it that, that we're living in a metroplex style situation. And I think about, the funders that are helping us build the mountain bike trails that we're building. There's really two things that are happening. Is there an economic development piece to it? Yes. Is it, creating an ecosystem of outside is for everyone and it's a good thing? Yeah. But it's also preserving all of these green spaces. Look if they were not preserved for some other reason, they would just end up being the next subdivision and the next subdivision and the next subdivision until we don't have trees left. We're living in a concrete jungle at that point. And if you take something like Hand Cut Hollow, which was purchased and donated to Trailblazers, it won't be long before it, it is, it's nothing but subdivisions around it. But it will forever be this preserved piece of property that is there as green space for anyone to use? I mean, I've heard it said, the outside is free. And that's, for the most part that's true because all those, all of our trails, every trail that we have is a multi-use trail. We don't have any bike only trails or hike only trails and you'll find them, yesterday mountain biking ran into a lady walking on the back 40 and the people out trail running or walking their dog or, it truly is for everyone. But where really to me, the connection to the land is that it is preserving that space. And when we design mountain bike trail, if there's the opportunity, we are very mindful of what are the components in that space that we can bring out? Is there a really cool bluff line that we can take It, take you by? Is there, can we stay beside the, sugar Creek for you? Think about sugar Bridge Trail? It is, it's wonderful whether you're walking, riding, anything, it's just a cool place to be. If we think about some of the other trails around that are connecting you to, to. Parts of nature that you wouldn't see otherwise. But more importantly than connecting you, to me, it's preserving them so that they'll be there for, generations and generations to come. That's really what that offers. And then I would say on the gravel road side of things, it, it really is to get, to go through the. We ride around Pea Ridge military park all the time. It's one of the favorite routes if you're going,
mike.:oh, it's great out there.
victor gurel.:Yeah. Or then, think about the routes we do out to Western Benton County to like Sulfur Springs.
mike.:Beautiful.
victor gurel.:Yeah. People would not know. You could live in Bentonville and have never been to Sulfur Springs. You would have no reason to go there that I know of, unless you're on your way to Watts or whatever the closest town is in Oklahoma. But when you ride your gravel bike out there and get to see, the old stone buildings and the old schools and one of my favorite places out in Eastern Madison County, is it, it's in between I guess, patrick and White Rock is a very old, Hume Quarried limestone school up on top of the hill, getting to ride your gravel bike down a road and see. You're looking back in, into our history, in some cases hundreds of years at these places that, otherwise you would just miss, you wouldn't have that connection to those places.
mike.:As we think about not only trail development but also the kind of the cycling for lack of better words, education, like what's your perspective on our responsibility as cyclists moving into those spaces?
victor gurel.:Yeah. I think that there's a huge importance to us to remember that the people that are there are, that live there, that have chose to drive 45 minutes down a, either a dirt road to get to a highway to get to work that have chose to live that far out for the peace and tranquility that it o offers. And to the, for the anonymity of, doing their own thing the way that they see fit. It's important to remember that's their perspective. It doesn't mean that they're not friendly, because I would argue the opposite. I would say that, when I meet most people on a gravel road, if they're, if it's someone that lives there, they're as inviting as as anyone else because I'm not dusting their house. I'm, and I think the responsibilities are things like. Be ultra careful about never, of leaving no trace of not when we're, whether it's we're racing, riding, whatever, not leaving a speck of trash out there. It, it being courteous to drivers. It, if we can tell that someone's trying to get from point A to point B and they're in a hurry to try to get out of their way as much as we possibly can in the exact same way that I would do if I was on a tractor or I was in my own car sight seeing it. It's just to be courteous, to be friendly. I've made a habit. Anyone that's ridden with me, especially on gravel I do it all the time, but especially on gravel. I can remember hearing my grandpa greet everyone with hey friend or good morning friend. And I can remember asking him like, are those people your friend? And he said, often, people, when they meet you, they're trying to size you up to decide who you are. And when you greet someone with friend and wave at 'em, you're telling them right off the bat who you are. And so I think that's the other responsibility that we have, is just to remember that each of us, when we're on a bike, our representative of the entire cycling community and it's our responsibility to be kind and courteous these people to to wave to the way that, that, that someone greeting their neighbor who lived on a county road would greet them. They're not going to ignore them. They're going to wave, they're gonna be courteous because, they are a them, they're someone who fits into that group. And to me, that's the responsibility to to make sure that we are conducting ourselves in exactly the same way that when we're gonna go to a five star restaurant, we're gonna dress the part. Do we always dress that way? Absolutely not. Don't want to. It's uncomfortable but it's knowing the audience that we're in or the group that we're in and trying to be courteous and respectful and kind, don't, we don't need to lose our own identity in order to, to relate to someone else. We can just find ways to relate to someone else and be very much ourselves at the same time.
mike.:I love that. I think, obviously our mutual friend, Andy Chasteen, you know, really stuck with waving to everyone. And I think I'm gonna adopt exactly what you said, this aspect of, Hey, friend, because as you say that I could, you're a hundred percent right that the assumptions sometimes, and maybe this is our national dialogue or
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:What people want us to see is division, that is kind of our assumed starting point.
victor gurel.:Yeah.
mike.:And I think the reframing of that could be really powerful. Alright. I'm gonna commit that it's,
victor gurel.:you should do it. It makes a difference.
mike.:High friend.
victor gurel.:Yeah. It makes a difference. It really does.
mike.:Yeah. Well, all right. And I think we should challenge everybody to do that Yeah. As well too. All right, let's I want to maybe as we start to think about this conversation, I don't want to gloss over maybe some of the challenges we still have ahead of us. So from your perspective, top of mind, what are some of the biggest challenges and maybe obstacles we still have in front of us as a region or as communities around this that, that we really need to be focused on?
victor gurel.:I think in the, at least in the mountain biking side of things the real challenge I think ahead of us is maintenance. Our funders have built an incredible network of trail and Greenway is, significantly different. It's concrete. Once it's there, it requires very little maintenance. It's a onetime lift. It's a lot more expensive, but it's a onetime lift. And when I think about the mountain bike trails again, the biggest challenge is maintenance. And what I mean by that is that, it's on, it costs on average, and this is definitely an average. There are some sections of trail that cost nothing to maintain a year or very little to nothing. But on average, the best number that I've been able to come with up with so far in digging into it, it's about $2,500 per mile per year to maintain a trail with the flow trail, the jumpy berm, wide trail, the adaptive trail is the most expensive. And then the hand cut trail is being far less expensive. It just, it's not as much surface area and true to the way nature works. The less you disturb it the, the less it requires of you, the more you disturb it, the more you've gotta continue keeping it the same way. We're fortunate enough to have an incredible group of volunteers with more people moving into the area every day. And really when we ask the question or when I ask the question, who's responsible for maintaining the trails? Well, the truth is, it's the same as a street or anything else. Who's responsible is all of us. Every citizen is every ci, every user, every citizen is responsible for it. We don't think about it that way, in the same way that I don't think of being responsible for the roads I am I help be responsible for it with my tax dollars, but there aren't tax dollars, that fund all of the trail maintenance. And there, it's a complex reason why there's not. So if you take the city of Bentonville has inside the city limits or what we would call Bentonville, maybe just outside the city limits, like some of Hand Cut Hollow has about 150 miles of trail in that 150 miles of trail. Inside the Bentonville city limits on Bentonville City property is about 30 miles of that trail. So if I looked and at and said, okay, what is the city of Bentonville technically responsible for as it stands to just the trail that's on their property. It's a fifth of that trail. What are, what's all the other trail? It's on an easement through your neighbor's backyard. It's on some of the property that Trailblazers owns. It's on, it's all on other scattered pieces of private property. Some of that, a good portion of it is within Coler. But when we think about, okay, well. Who's now is responsible for maintaining the trail that goes through my backyard and my neighbor's backyard. If it isn't the city, it's on my property. There may be a public easement saying that people can pass through it, but there's no public commitment to how it's gonna be kept up. Well, who so so then it, if it's who's responsible and it's all of us, well, how do all of us do that? And I think that's where the biggest challenge comes in. It really, it happens most with us as citizens and trail users, whether it's we're walking, running on it, walking our dog, mountain, biking on it, whatever the case is, it's doing as much volunteer work as we can because we're Americans. We would much rather give what we want to give than have someone else take something from us and then redistribute it. That's part of who we are as a culture. And we've, again, we've been fortunate enough to have a good group of volunteers and just as more people move into the area, if you move here from Kansas City or Springfield and you didn't have this extensive of a trail network to enjoy most people show up here ready to find some way they feel overwhelmed with gratitude for what they have, and they're looking for a way to plug in. So again, biggest challenge I would say is maintenance. And then it's the funding of that maintenance. We've we're, we've talked about a lot of different opportunities for that, whether it's fundraisers that trailblazers can do. It, whether it's support from the city of Bella Vista has been phenomenal at appropriate and budget to care for their trails. We fill the gap for them, but very little like the POA and the city have worked together to do a great job. Bentonville is working hard as well. They're a little, again, they have much bigger problems right now than just maintaining trail. I know it's important to me. It's the thing I can am concerned the most about until I hear that the water system needs to be repaired and then I shift my focus a little bit.
mike.:Yeah, it matters to caring a little bit more about water.
victor gurel.:But it's, then it's really funding for that. How do we fund it? We can do fundraisers. People can give private donations, whether it's to trailblazers or Fast or anyone else. It's partnering with all the other small groups and making sure that we're all working together whether it's to maintain a small section of trail and, we want to. To do as little as possible in, in both municipalities. We don't want to commercialize our trail system. We don't want there to be it for everything to be a pay to play, because if it is, then we get back away from that outside as free or outside as inclusive for everyone. And so we're trying to find a way to say, Hey, those of us who can give some of our time or some of our resources to help support the trail maintenance, we need to do that. All of us want the best maintained trail that we can get. There's no, that's without question. And the, again I feel like. Is the progress where I would like for it to be in terms of funding from the different municipalities? No, but I if you said, do you feel like they're doing everything they can as quick as they can? My honest answer would be yes. Do I feel like it's as fast as I'd like it to be? No, of course not. I would like to be able to wave a magic wand and solve the problem, but that's not how real problems get solved. Or if they are, it becomes something that isn't sustainable and that's not what we don't want. And so I would say that's the biggest, that's certainly the biggest challenge for me. I feel like the other challenge just at Trailblazers is helping people understand what does trailblazers really do? And I think that I am still shocked by how little the public knows about how involved trailblazers has been. I, I was serious about it when I said it earlier. If you ride mountain bikes in, in northwest Arkansas and you meet Erin Rushing, you should shake his hand because you wouldn't be doing it without the work that he did. And the, of course, collectively the rest of the team at Trailblazers as well. But it, from. It starts with us with a concept. We decide, okay, we need to build a trail here, or we want to build a trail here. Or maybe a funder says they would like to build a trail here. Well then there's all the design part of it, of talking to the property owners that we might need to go across their property getting easements. So you have to get everything queued up. This isn't imminent domain. We can't take anything from, we don't want to take anything from anyone. We want to to do it in a way where it's benefiting all parties. Once that part of it's done, then there's, okay, now can we actually build the trail there? How much will it cost to build the trail there? And then there's the getting the trail built and making sure that it's permitted well and follows all the codes and that, and the requirements that there are for things like bridges or crosswalks or where it's gonna cross a highway. Those things.
mike.:Victor, tell me about the community classes as well too, because this is something that still trailblazers is doing.
victor gurel.:It's the only, what I would call, program that Trailblazers does anymore is our Trailblazer Community classes. And it's something that we, honestly, it was, I tried to find a new home for it when I started at Trailblazers. And the more I tried and the more I explained it to people that I was trying to, for lack of a better word, pawn it off on, because we didn't want to have any programs. The more I told the story, the more I felt connected to it until eventually, I just said, Hey, we've gotta find a way to keep this. And so what the community classes do are a couple things. One it, the adult first ride takes anyone who doesn't know how to ride a bike, or maybe they learned as a kid, but they haven't ridden a bike as an adult, and it truly just teaches them how to get back on a bike and how to ride. And then there's a confident commuting class where they, here's what you really need to know. You have a bike now. Great. How do you plan to get to work? And how do you figure out what that route is and what do you like? What do I need to bring with me? Do I, what shoes do I buy? It's teaching you how to commute to work if you wanted to. And then we also do an introduction to bike maintenance. So if you know how to change, need to know how to lube your chain or change a flat if you have one, because it's, that's a real problem if you're gonna ride a bike, even if it's just on the greenway. At some point you're gonna have a flat and knowing how to not be stuck and feel stranded is important. Those are the things that we're involved most in. And then of course the design and the development. We don't build any of the greenway, we're really just involved in those first steps. The concept phase, the design phase, and then it ends up getting handed off to a contractor to handle from there.
mike.:I love hearing about the community classes, especially Ronnie, I believe has just joined your team.
victor gurel.:She is
mike.:to come do that amazing human being, well qualified.
victor gurel.:Absolutely.
mike.:So congratulations on having her as a part of the team as well too. I'm excited to see where that goes for sure. Yeah. Well, Victor, I think tremendous conversation. I love hearing the work of Trailblazers, and maybe as we start to think about this work in the future, please keep us informed. Absolutely. Love to understand how we as a cycling community and we as just as a society can help support this trail development. Because I think as I listened to you one of the things that we, we want trail systems that providing inclusion and belonging and are accessible to people. And so I do think that comes with a requirement from the community to be a part of that maintenance to your point, that if we believe strongly in these ideas of outdoors being free and movement being something that equalizes our community, then we also have responsibility to invest in that with our time and resources. And so I think that connection for me really comes home in listening to you. All right. I finish every episode with a couple questions. I'm curious your response to these. One question I ask is around your fears. For this space.'Cause I, my hope would be that it equalizes the things we're all thinking about or concerned. And so when I say that, Victor, what are your fears in this space for our community around the work you're doing
victor gurel.:as it relates to cycling or active infrastructure?
mike.:Yeah. Take, you can take all of that if you want.
victor gurel.:Yeah. Yeah. I would say, what are my fears as it relates to it. I would say, if I think about my fears around cycling I guess this is, i, I guess I would say my biggest fear is that we don't do enough, quick enough, to avoid, in, in my mind the, active infrastructure piece is the thing that, that frightens me the most. I've been. In the last eight months, I've been hit by two cars on Greenway where I was. And then one day getting from work to home had four near misses. So four almost collisions with cars in every one of those situations, I, it was, wasn't even angry with the driver. I wasn't, because when I thought about what happened, I saw it as an infrastructure problem. It wasn't Did the driver make a mistake? Yes, in every case the driver was making a mistake, but they were all in situations where I could look at myself as the driver and go, gosh I could have done that, and I'm a cyclist and I'm looking out for cyclists all the time. And I could have done that because there are just infrastructure problems and my fear is that we don't do enough soon enough. Like every time there's a traffic accident with where someone gets hurt on a bike or in this, look it's, of course, no one gets on their bike and rides down the greenway and thinks that there's even a chance that they could die. But the reality is, we've had people in northwest Arkansas that, that died in fatal bike vehicle, accidents and it just shouldn't be that way. It doesn't need to be that way. There's, there are plenty of more things that we could do. There's plenty of more work to be done. And my, I guess my fear is that we don't do enough, quick enough because it's senseless for someone to die. If it means, the difference between driving 25 miles an hour down a neighborhood street or 15 miles an hour in terms of how many minutes it takes you to move two blocks is completely insignificant. So why aren't we doing more? Or when I think about when I pull up to an intersection where a greenway's gonna cross at a traffic light why don't I have some kind of flashing sign or a speed table or a bump? Just something so that if I'm driving, it reminds me, Hey, don't just look left to, to avoid getting broadsided by a car, I have to look right as well because there might be a cyclist that's about to come by. So I would say that's my biggest fear.
mike.:Yeah. And those are legitimate. And I think you're in a space where you see it through the lens of this infrastructure of ways that we could be doing things to avoid that. And yeah. I'm really thankful to hear you say that. The other question is kinda the flip side of that coin, which is this idea of wholeness. And I think the one thread through all of these conversations that we're trying to tie together is this idea of community wholeness. And I would argue and I'm biased in this, that the bike has a real critical, yeah, role in that. And so when I when you hear me say that term, wholeness, when does wholeness look like to you in this space?
victor gurel.:Wow, that's hard. I guess to, I'm gonna contrast wholeness with brokenness and then say, what does it look like for us to not be broken in that space? Just a different way of I think ask, asking the same question, just a little easier for me to think about. And I guess I would say I feel like we will be more whole when, as a community when the people who love bikes and love riding bikes, whether it's for, purely for recreation or whether it's because it's what they need to get from point A to point B, or whether it's how they spend time with their family, fitness, whatever the case is, that they feel like they both belong to that community. But as importantly that the non cyclists see the cyclists as very much still them. They see, they're not looking at them like it's an, another group because that's where, to me, things get dangerous. We get, when we feel like we are, and us and someone else some other group is a them. When we feel like that there's a separation between us. The unfortunate part about us as humans is then it allows us to treat those other, the them. It allows us to treat the others in a way that's not how we should be treating other humans. We just, it just isn't. And so I think we're more whole or we embody wholeness more when we see ourselves as all part of the col same collective community. That, that and we try as much as possible to not see the division and try to see the fact that, that person in that car is, it doesn't hate me. They're just got up late and they're trying to get to work on time. And that they don't see me as an obstacle in their way. They just see me as someone trying to stay healthy.
mike.:Well, I would subscribe to that definition of wholeness also, Victor. So thank you for that perspective.'cause I think in this time in the world we're at that we can't yeah. We can't move past that point too quickly and we can't talk about it enough. Yeah. And so I'm really thankful. Victor, thanks for sitting with me. Yeah. I really appreciate, love hearing about Trailblazers. Keep us involved. Keep us informed. But yeah, thanks for the work that you're doing in this community for all of us. I know I, I get to benefit from it as a cyclist, but appreciate all you're doing and all the work that the team is doing at Trailblazers. So thanks for
victor gurel.:man, you're welcome. Thanks for having me on. I enjoy it. I love what I do. I love talking about it.
mike.:All right, keep go. Do more of it then.
victor gurel.:Deal.
mike.:Thanks, victor.
victor gurel.:You're welcome.
mike rusch.:Well, a big thank you to Victor for sitting with me and reminding us all that trails and gravel roads are about something profound. Movement and meaning. Every mile built is an act of imagination of who we believe belongs and how we design our common life, and of whether we will build bridges or borders in the process. Trailblazer's work invites us to see that infrastructure. It's never neutral. Every choice about where a trail begins, where it ends, and who can safely reach it. Well, it tells a story about our priorities as a region. The question is whether that story is one of connection or exclusion. Victor challenged us to think about accessibility, not as an afterthought, but as a foundation, that if the trails that we build don't serve the people who live closest to them, then they're only half finished. He asked us to consider how we design trails that invite everyone into the story of this place, the people who work the land, the ones priced out of it, and the ones who ride through it. And maybe that's the deeper invitation for all of us to think less about how far we can go and more about who we travel with, to use these shared roads and greenways, not just to escape or for recreation, but to encounter, to learn the patience, humility and proximity that relationship, membership and belonging requires. Because when we share these spaces with respect and responsibility, trails become something much, much more than recreation. They become repair, slow, steady, and built mile by mile, neighbor by neighbor. I love the story that Victor told us about his grandfather and how he used to greet everyone with that simple phrase, "hello friend." It's a small gesture, but it's a powerful reminder of how belonging begins with recognition, with welcome, and the courage to wave or to speak first. So maybe that's where we start with a wave as Andy Chasteen has encouraged us, or a nod and a simple beginning of, "hello friend." And so for everyone, keep waving, keep showing up, keep choosing to see one another. Thank you to Victor and to everyone at Trailblazers, and to everyone else who's listening, I wanna say thank you for following along. Thank you for being the most important part of what our community is becoming. This is the underview, an exploration in the shaping of our place.
