WTF Just Happened?!? Breaking Down the Wisconsin State Budget and the Big Beautiful Bill with Joe Zepecki

Transcript

1:00

Welcome to pulse check, Wisconsin. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. This is Dr. Ford with Pulse Check Wisconsin. I wanna thank you for joining us today. As always, we have another good episode for you. We have Joseph Zepecke, who is the director of Protector Care Wisconsin, a friend of mine. He's a political strategist, uh, has been on multiple presidential campaigns. A contributor regularly on civic media. So I wanted to bring him in to bring his expertise to the table to talk about where we are as a state, as well as where we are federally with the big, beautiful bill that recently passed from a healthcare standpoint, from Medicaid standpoint, hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country will be affected by both the state and the federal bills. So I want to make sure that you all know where we are, know where we need to go and get more information from a credible source. So with that being said. Let's get into it.

Chris: 2:45

All right. So we had a lot of news that went down over the holiday week. we heard a lot from the federal budget. We heard a lot from the state budget. I wanna make sure that we all are in a good spot now that all the chips have settled. I wanna make sure we catch all our listeners up because we had a lot of questions too. So we had to bring in the big guns. we have Joseph pki here, from Protect Our Care, Wisconsin. Joe, thanks for being with us

Joe: 3:07

Hey. Excited to do it. Thanks for having me, man. there certainly is a lot going on.

Chris: 3:11

And I feel like, you know, leading up to it, we got a lot of news about it, and then all of a sudden, you know, governor signed, which we'll get into a little bit more as well, and then all of a sudden you don't hear anything. So I wanna make sure that we know where we're at right now and where we need to go. one of the things that we talked about offline was, here at Pulse Check Wisconsin, in the past, the last couple seasons we've been discussing how we want to emphasize, those local policies with local politics as well, and how they affect your healthcare, because those local elections are gonna make a big difference in, your health and your communities, But every now and then we see that silver lining of a direct corollary, direct nexus between our state politics and federal politics. And we saw that with this federal budget too. causing a quick signage by Governor Evers So could you give us a breakdown on What happened?

Joe: 3:55

Yeah. So the federal bill that we will discuss, Freezes provider tax rates. States that have not expanded Medicaid, Wisconsin is one of just 10, and so that freeze would've cost the state of Wisconsin at least$1 billion a year in federal funding if the state budget had gone into effect after the reconciliation bill was signed. As Congress was racing to get this done and Trump was trying to force this arbitrary deadline of July 4th, there's sort of the two tracks, the federal budget bill and the state budget bill. The state budget year ended on June 30th. It's not unheard of for that process to take a couple of extra days, and it did this time, but then the sort of unusual occurrence of a governor signing it at one 30 in the morning. Was all about trying to win this race to ensure that the state did miss out on a billion dollars a year for the next two years in the state budget

Chris: 5:05

and like you say, this is something that could have been devastating for communities and families in the state of Wisconsin. We had, Sarah Rodriguez, Lieutenant Governor come on, and we talked about Medicaid expansion. at that point in time, we were more optimistic because we could potentially expand Medicaid, we could potentially get. postpartum care, for up to a year for new moms. we're entirely 180 on top of that. Now we got the governor, like you said, signing at one 30 in the morning just to make sure that families have those funds available.

Joe: 5:32

Yeah. it's not the way you would design this system if you were doing it with a clean sheet of paper. But it's where we are. And the governor choosing to do that and staying up past his bedtime is good for families and good for Wisconsin. So we thank him for doing that.

Chris: 5:51

You know, at the center of all this, and this is one of the articles that I read, as we were watching all the fireworks go off, I'm sitting on my phone there was a letter from, one of our favorite congressmen here Wisconsin Congressman Derek Van Orden, who, pinned this letter to the governor, telling him to sign what is the context of the letter and what went on with that? This is. Like a soap opera.

Joe: 6:10

Yeah. I mean, with Congressman Derek Van Orden, there's always a lot going on and it's almost never good. I do actually think we will give him like a half single point of credit for Realiz how bad the big bill was going to be for his district and for his state. the reason we know that is because on July 3rd, he rushes this letter to Tony Evers saying, you gotta sign the state budget. You gotta protect this money. And then despite the fact that he knows it's so bad that he was alerting the governor he went ahead and voted for it anyways. And in the aftermath of the governor signing that. At one 30 in the morning. He tried to take all the credit. He was like, oh, he did that because of me. Which is nonsense because in February the governor had proposed just this fix to the provider tax, and so the governor playing the long game, seeing the whole field was going, we gotta get this right. While the governor and advocates and patient groups were all urging, Congress, don't do this. This is insanity. And pleading with the MAGA Republicans in Congress to not do this, and they went and did it anyways. And Derek Van Orden voted for it, not once, but twice. He voted for it when it was real bad in the house the first time, and then. When it got worse in the Senate, it came back and he voted for it again. the context here is he's playing politics. He won his race in 2024 by like 12,000 votes. There are more constituents he represents in Congress right now on Medicaid than the margin of victory he had in 2024. what he's trying to do is get you looking over here, say, I saved you a billion dollars while trying to obscure the fact that he just voted to cut a trillion dollars from Medicaid in a way that is going to impact healthcare. In his district and across the state and country. it seems kind of trite to chalk it all up to, well, he's just playing politics. He's a politician. That's what politicians do. But we should understand, like, this is pretty gross. To be like, look at the billion I saved. Don't look at the trillion. I just cut. Come on man. What are we doing?

Chris: 8:41

And this seems to be a part of a playbook, right? if we're looking, I think it was a report this morning, and they talked about, Josh Hawley out of Missouri, who's doing the same deal, right? So, you know, I've saved Missourians, I'm gonna get them x amount of million dollars for, the radioactive exposure that they had that's gonna treat them. And then at the same time, we're losing billions of dollars on the back end. For Medicaid, right? Which a lot of Missourians are dependent on in order to, get their healthcare, get access to snap funds, things of those natures, right? And so, it seems to be over and over again, we're starting to see these politicians, these members of congress saying, Hey, this is what I'm giving you. But, you know, I didn't like this aspect of the bill, but I still voted for it. Right?

Joe: 9:19

they want us to listen to what they say and not watch what they do. Whether it is Ron Johnson saying that the fiscal picture of the United States is the greatest threat we face and our national debt is outta control. And then when it comes time to do it, what does he do? He votes to put$3 trillion more on the national debt, or Josh Hawley saying, the coalitions have changed. If we're gonna be the party of the working man and woman, we gotta protect Medicaid. And then when a bill comes out that's gonna cut a trillion dollars for Medicaid, he goes. Well, I'll just vote for it anyways. But continue to say, that we are now the party of the working class. So the job of all of us is to ignore what they say and watch what they do, because what they are doing is not living up to what they're saying.

Chris: 10:06

And then, because the governor had to make such a fast-paced, signage of this bill, there's been some controversy from both sides, right? So from Democrats and Republicans at the state side that are concerned about parts of the budget again, like we talked about, that 12 month, coverage for new moms, childcare funds, K through 12 funds as well. are there any wins? What are some of the wins that you hear from the States's budget? Because you're gonna hear a lot of negatives, a lot of people on both sides talking about this premature signage from their standpoint.

Joe: 10:31

Yeah, there is a way of looking at this, which is like, if everybody's mad, it's probably a pretty good budget and probably the best about the maps. nobody gets everything. When there's divided government like this. And so to my friends, particularly on the left who are criticizing the governor, what I would say is. When you are dealing with not just an unfriendly but a hostile legislature and you can get to a budget document that has the largest increase to the special education reimbursement rate in state history. That's a win. When you can get the largest increase in funding to the UW system in two decades, that's a win. And included in that are capital projects that we know we've needed for years so that our UW system can keep pace with peer universities around the Big 10 and across the country and maintain the crown jewel of the state of Wisconsin, which is our UW system. Hundreds of millions of dollars for childcare stabilization. That's good. no one is pretending that this is a perfect budget. But when you have divided government, you have to take the wins where you can get them. And Republicans didn't get everything they wanted either. So the story. Going forward ought to be about this. Governor was able to work with Republicans to deliver on priorities, and if Democrats win a trifecta next year, there's a lot more we can do, including in the healthcare space, with some really innovative ideas the governor put forward in his state of the state and budget address. To do audits of health insurance. If your denials are getting too high, the state is gonna come in and audit and hold you accountable so you're meeting the needs of consumers. Those are the kinds of wins possible in a future where Democrats control the legislature and the governor's office. That's not the reality right now, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

Chris: 12:22

I was listening to, a recent podcast and, you know, they had a doc on there that used to work for, you know, the, the Obama, cabinet. he brought up a good point that people voted. In the last national election for change, But what they may have got in response to that is destruction, right? And so we're seeing, you know, unfortunately, there's going to be dismantling at a federal level for some of these funds available for Medicaid. here back stateside, Robin Voss, we've heard over and over again, during the national elections, a soundbite of him talking about Medicaid. He was framing it as a handout, right? so we don't wanna expand it because, this is gonna deincentivize working because of that whole, BS concept of, these people who need these funds are unwilling to work. How do we counter that? in going forward, how do we counter that messaging and flip it as an investment into public health and economic growth for our state. I think one part of it is

Joe: 13:16

you just gotta call out the lie. Mm-hmm. It is a lie, right? There is no individual in America who is getting handed a check from Medicaid, period. That's not how the program works. If you have supports from Medicaid, when you go to the doctor, the doctor is then billing Medicaid directly. So this idea that there's. Some healthy 30-year-old kid sitting in his mom's basement cashing Medicaid checks and using'em to buy more, you know, Fortnite coins, right? it's just a flat out lie Mm-hmm. and so that's the part where we need to call out the lie. Then there's the part of it, which can sometimes go over people's head, but it's worth setting the context of like, when we talk about Medicaid in Wisconsin, this is what we're talking about. One in four state residents. 24%, get some support from Medicaid that includes about 150,000 seniors, nearly half a million children, more than 185 wisconsinites with disabilities. So these are your neighbors, man. These are the people you work with, their family members, the people you worship with on Saturday or Sunday, every community is touched by Medicaid. 73.5% of Wisconsinites who get Medicaid are working. They are currently living up to that part of it. But the numbers don't tell the whole story. you gotta get to the stories. we met, a woman named Jessica in January at a round table we did with Congresswoman Gwen Moore. Jessica and her husband both work full-time. They have employer-sponsored healthcare coverage and their son, who's eight, maybe nine by now, has very serious medical challenges. And because of things like the long-term, healthcare waiver and Katie Beckett and Iris, they're able to continue working. Their employer insurance doesn't get so cost prohibitive that those companies need to fire them or they need to switch providers every year. If their son loses those supports, at least one of mom or dad is gonna have to leave the workforce to provide the care full-time for their child. when you repeat that across the nearly half a million kids in the state, we are talking about second and third order impacts to our economy, to our communities. We can't afford that. When we talk about, why doesn't everybody on Medicaid work, we're talking about a 9-year-old boy? both of his parents are working and the value they add to the economy and to their community, and the availability of Medicaid provides another job for somebody to operate as a caregiver for their son. Now we're talking about a net positive benefit as opposed to a burden on that family and on that community. And so it's a little bit, call out the lie, it's a little bit, talk about how common this is in every part of the state, and it's a little bit about putting that color behind, you know, the types of families impacted by this because in that story, everybody knows. Somebody, Whose kid has got some medical challenges. Everybody knows somebody whose parents are getting up there trying to raise their own kids and their parents aren't doing well, they're falling on poor health. And as opposed to having to move mom or dad into the house and provide that care for them, they get to stay in an assisted living facility.'cause of Medicaid and, and that's what we're talking about. If, if they have to move that parent in with them, that impacts everybody. Impacts the number of hours they can work. Like we have to tell the stories so that people can see themselves in it and understand I might be working right now, I might have employer sponsored coverage. But. If mom or dad trips and falls or takes a tournament with their health, all of a sudden you might be dependent on Medicaid too. And once you start seeing yourself in that story, you begin to understand. This is insanity. Exactly.

Chris: 17:26

Exactly. we are all one accident away from being bankrupted by a medical condition. Right. that is the reality that the majority of families in this state and country live with. And not only that, the effects this is gonna have on rural populations, right. We, we've noted. 323 hospitals over the last three years in the red each year. Right. That is gonna be funding and we'll get into it with the, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll eventually get into the big beautiful build now. But you know, that is going to be funding that's gonna be missing from these populations. You are going to gut these communities from any hospitals that are available for miles, right? And rural populations, urban populations, et cetera. And how are you gonna get people there? Right? How are you gonna get. Some of these locations don't even have EMS crews, right? they're putting in private EMS crews to get people from hospital to hospital. So, you know, I feel like the effects are gonna go beyond what a lot of people are having in the front of their mind. Mm-hmm. but unfortunately it's gonna be this reality that we're gonna be faced with. So, yeah. Let's get into it. Big beautiful Bill, we'll turn to Washington. What is your read, because we're stuck with it now. What is your read on the so-called big beautiful bill? What is it and what's at stake for Medicaid from a federal standpoint,

Joe: 18:37

number of ways in which this legislation is bad is mind boggling and confounding. So he just, these are the top takeaways. Ads$3 trillion to the national debt, undermines our economic competitiveness with China, who's about to eat our lunch when it comes to renewable energy? By the way, the way they're doing that is gonna make you, me and everybody else pay more on our utility bills, whether you're an individual or a business. It exacerbates income inequality because those at the highest end will see their net worth increase, and those under$60,000 a year will see their net worth decrease. It makes everyone pay more for healthcare, which we can get further into, but like it is a lose, lose, lose, lose, lose proposition. All to do one thing. Make sure that the richest Americans get to hold on to their precious tax cuts and aren't we glad that Mark Zuckerberg can buy another island? Jeff Bezos can spring for another yacht or maybe, you know, put a couple bucks away to reserve a European city for his next wedding like he just did in Venice on the second marriage, like 60 million. This is insanity that we are going to continue to just flood the richest Americans with more dollars while literally taking from those who are working the hardest. Making the least and make their net worth go down and make them pay more for everything. It's madness. we should probably get into some of the healthcare piece. People go like, okay, well what does that mean? how's it gonna make me pay more for healthcare? I'm not one of the 17 million Americans who's gonna get kicked off my healthcare. Well, guess what? Your healthcare costs are still going to go up because when the dollars disappear. The needs for care don't. now more of those needs are known as uncompensated care. What business in the world just takes that l They don't. When they have to provide more uncompensated care, they turn around and pass those costs on to the rest of us. You mentioned hospital closures. This is a real easy calculation. I don't understand why people don't get it. Like of those 323, I think it is nationally. At least three of them are in Wisconsin, osteo Stanley and one other in a rural community where for three years in a row, they've been in the red. That puts them at dire risk of closing and now they're gonna have less federal support. Well, folks do the math. If hospitals close. That means the supply goes down while the demand stays the same. Anybody who's ever taken an economics course can tell you that is a recipe for higher prices. And this bill does the sort of, the two step on healthcare. It is ending tax credits for Obamacare plans. So these are people who are working. But don't have employer sponsored coverage. Maybe they're gig workers. the beauty of these advanced premium tax credits was that they pegged what you pay for health insurance to what you earn based on a percentage of your income. So if you were making 20 5K, seven and a half percent, if you were making 35 or 40 K, 7.5%, that is now done with at the end of this year. That makes. Healthcare insurance, less affordable. For those folks. More uncompensated care. It also forces millions of Americans off Medicaid, not by turning around tomorrow and saying like, you lose it, you lose it, you get to keep it, you lose it, and all of a sudden we get to tens of millions. by trying to bury folks in paperwork And reporting and recertification just consider the absurdity of that. A lot of the adults who are on Medicaid for things like assistive mobility devices, These are permanent conditions that are not gonna heal. They're not gonna get any better. And now, instead of certifying my disability once a year. Now I gotta do it 2, 3, 4 times a year. that means they gotta take time off of work as they close all these government offices. Maybe they gotta travel even further to go and do that. God forbid you miss one box on a form. Or God forbid your boss forgets to sign to show that you worked the 80 hours a month. The government then gets, okay, well we're not paying for your stuff anymore, and now they've lost their Medicaid coverage. They still have the needs. we saw this in Arkansas where they totally changed the reporting requirements for Medicaid, and they said, oh, we're gonna get able bodied, adults who should be working off of the Medicaid rules and into the workforce. Guess what happened to Arkansas's workforce? Not a damn thing. Like 18,000 people lost access to those benefits, but the size of the state workforce stayed exactly the same. it's all a toxic stew. That means the rest of us pay more for healthcare. I don't know who thought that was gonna be politically popular, but. They should have their head examined.

Chris: 24:17

and note, these midterm elections are coming up. for a lot of people out there make sure that you research your candidates. Make sure that you hold these folks accountable as Joe has been saying before. Watch what they're doing, watch how they're voting. Because there's a lot of this 11th hour, oh, I knew this was a bad deal. Well, you didn't vote under duress. You have free will to vote my friends. we're at a whole different. Whole different, counterpoint history here. So this is insane. Many critics are saying that, this bill, this gutting of Medicaid is done under the guise of fiscal responsibility. And we don't have to go as far back as, post new deal, post, a conservative manifesto. But is that fair? what are the deeper motivations behind these cuts? what is the mindset?

Joe: 24:58

fair.

Chris: 24:59

Mm-hmm.

Joe: 24:59

it's not like this bill would've passed. within this century we've called like PayGo where everything had to be paid for. This is not all paid for. They didn't pay for the tax cuts. They're blowing out the national debt What this legislation does, in my view, is fundamentally rewrite the social contract, right? Like for generations, we have operated under the assumption that the overall societal cost of these programs was more than worth the fiscal impact, right? so what do we mean by that? We mean that there is a net good for our country. When fewer people are destitute and desperate, It ensures that fewer folks who have really positive impacts on our economy, in our communities, on the broader culture, that fewer of those folks are burdened by having to take care of that love. I heard from a friend of mine after this bill was signed into law. This is somebody who coaches and teaches at a high school. And lemme tell you, there ain't a high school coach in America who is overpaid. the amount of time and energy that they give to kids to help build these young people up and provide an outlet, if his son loses coverage under Katie Beckett. He ain't gonna have time to coach. He's gonna have more responsibilities to take care of his little one, and he will do that, but it will have a net cost on his community. when it comes to what are the deeper motivations, I'm not gonna try to divine those. I think we're always better off questioning people's judgment and their choices rather than their motives. this is bad policy. Pure and simple. It is reordering that fundamental deal we made, which is we can take the fact that there will always be people with challenges in our communities and try to work to the best possible outcome for all. we have now flipped that on its head and there's going to be a cost, not just in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of what our communities lose as a result

Chris: 27:20

And a lot of that loss is gonna be lives, to be honest with you, right? it's estimated from these cuts. We're gonna lose about 50,000 people a year, right? Those are 50,000 parents, 50,000 grandparents, right? Children as well, So these are going to be tangible effects for our communities throughout the country, rural, urban, wherever it's gonna be for everyone. And so, unfortunately, these cuts are designed. To pit, most of our communities against each other. A lot of times we get feedback, both from this show and other efforts that I do with some of the, political action committees as a physician, you guys are doing this because you're all Democrats, you guys are doing this because you're putting us against, party to party. The reality. These cuts are designed to pit working class Americans against one another Joe mentioned, these are gonna be tax cuts for the billionaires. this is not anyone's money other than those individuals, But how do we change that conversation? How do we go from, this is Democrats versus Republicans and say these are all of our communities. How do we expose this, divide and conquer politics that are clearly at play right now?

Joe: 28:20

Yeah, it is the question. And I am reminded of an old saw, I don't even know where I first heard it, but it's like, don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget, and I will tell you what you value. Right? This federal budget plan, this centerpiece of the Trump economic agenda lays out what they value. Clearly right. It is more for the haves and it is less for those striving to have, We ain't gonna call'em the have-nots because we know that people who through circumstance or station in life, don't have the same privileges and fortunes that some do are working even harder. Striving to live their version of the American dream, which is never going to include renting out the city of Venice for a wedding. Right. They're just saying like, maybe I can be the first generation in my family to own a house. It ain't gonna be a McMansion, right? Mm-hmm. We're gonna get a small little one story, but like, but that's their goal and they're striving to do that. we need to change the conversation from fighting over diminishing slices of the same size of pie, We need to, adopt a more Paul Wellstone approach, which is like we all do better when we all do better, I do not win when you lose and you do not win. When I lose, there is a way in the most dynamic economy, strongest economy in the world to have. Everyone have opportunity and a pathway to prosperity as they define it. That's what we need to be talking about and what this bill has done, what this governing class in Washington DC is doing is making those pathways harder. It is putting more hurdles in the way, what our approach needs to be is we don't care. What you look like, who you love, where you live, what your parents did or did not do. You have an opportunity in this country to maximize your potential and part of that work of government and policymakers is removing some of those hurdles. That Republicans have now left in the road.

Chris: 30:42

One of the hurdles that we've seen stateside and it correlates to this federal bill, is our refusal to expand Medicaid here in this state. And we talked a little bit about it. You know, when we talk about maternal, healthcare available the first year, postpartum, how would this bill's. You know, effects intersect with Wisconsin, refusal to expand Medicaid. And are we now looking at a compounded crisis leading up into, even after, this budget's in when we're looking 2027 into our next budget?

Joe: 31:11

Yeah. I mean, it's a double whammy, right? Consider that new mom. who gets some Medicaid support for the first couple of months, but now feels like she has to race back to the workforce. Well, she's still got a new baby at home, right? And now she's got more reporting to do to prove that she's going to work. She's got more to ask of her boss who's managing a whole team, What if she misses a form because the baby's sick?'cause she's gotta run home or she's an hour under because she got cut because somebody else realized like, gosh, you look so tired. Like, yeah, the baby was up all night crying and so they were trying to do her a solid and now she turns out she's an hour short of qualifying. this is madness. It is nonsense. the maternal one strikes me as clearly a double whammy. On the overall expansion for the state. It's just like the story's over. We left hundreds of billions of dollars on the table that were never getting back. Right. people like Robin Voss are out there like showboats. See, I told you one day this could go away. That's why it was stupid. No it wasn't, sir. with all due respect, we could have brought hundreds of millions of dollars into the state that could have provided more MO and could have helped defray the cost of more money for education, more money for infrastructure, more ability to stabilize that childcare industry. the compounded cost of just turning up our hands and saying, Nope, we don't want anything to do with those tax dollars we're already paying in. And for years now, we've just been subsidizing stuff. In other states, that's a lost opportunity that Wisconsin will never get back. And that is again, not to question the motivation, it's just like, that's just poor judgment. Full stop.

Chris: 32:52

Mm-hmm.

Joe: 32:53

Bad policy.

Chris: 32:54

Yep. You know, for those out there, I have invited Representative Vos. I would love to talk. I've had Governor Evers on here. We've had a lot of different representatives, at the state level, to come on and talk about it. But, he won't come out. I don't know why that is, I would love to talk to him about these, but it is what it is. So, let's see what we can do next. moving forward, We have these two bills that are signed into place. As a strategist from your standpoint, Joe, what messaging do you think resonates most with voters as we move forward, as we talk about Medicaid, these midterms that are gonna be coming up and the social safety net. how do we message this? How do we go forward?

Joe: 33:27

Yeah, so spoiler alert folks, there is no set of magic words That suddenly changes everyone's mind. You have to consider your audience, right? You have to consider the trust and credibility that you have with them. You're gonna have a lot more success talking to people you work with, or fellow family members if your kids are on a team together. Because they know you and trust you. The messenger matters, right? And we can't be preachy, and we can't be disgusted at the notion that anyone would've ever voted for this. To me, we have to recognize that where we are is not the fault of the voters. It is the fault of, candidates and movements to fail to communicate most effectively. And so how do we do that? I like to say, we say it with our chest, right? We do not have to be embarrassed to be progressive and to believe that people should have access to healthcare as a fundamental right, and not a privilege. And so, you know, we've gone through some of the numbers, we've gone through some of the stories, and I think if we communicate with grace and understand that it is not the fault of that, stressed out, overworked, underappreciated, blue collar worker. Who is so frustrated by the system that they were like, I'll vote for Donald Trump. I know he's a wrecking ball and a walking, talking middle finger to an establishment that ain't working for me. You're not gonna get anywhere by lecturing them. So I think you start by asking the question like, Hey, how's your family? Everybody healthy? Everybody good? And let me assure you, within a couple of questions like that, you will get to a healthcare impact Their village, whether their family or extended family or somebody they know. then you just lay out the facts, right? And you build a bridge by communicating We don't have to go through, so-called austerity measures to nickel and dime folks, when we are the wealthiest economy in the world. And for generations have been able to live up to that social contract where we recognize there is an overall net positive to making sure those who are, you know, least able to fend for themselves. Are able to be fended for. And that frees up our economy to grow for families to thrive and for people to realize economic security. And that is the path that we need to get back to. And if we approach it that way, as opposed to getting on our high horse and, trying to holler at people because they were so stupid to vote one way this last time, that's not gonna get us anywhere. We can also win people's, vote the next time, or earn, their willingness to hold people like Derek Van Orden and the other MAGA Republicans accountable. We can earn that without expecting them to vote. Democratic or vote left for the rest of their lives. And in fact, we have to, right? Because so many of those folks are so righteously frustrated with a status quo that hasn't worked. That's why they thought they wanted change. And I know that millions of people who voted that way, this was not the change they were looking for, right? They thought they wanted. Somebody to snap their fingers and to go back to an economy of 2017 or 2018. You know, a lot of us understand that economy wasn't working enough for working people either.

Chris: 36:53

Mm-hmm.

Joe: 36:54

but that's what they thought they were gonna get was just a return to, oh, just turn the clock back a little bit and, that's okay. we just gotta provide a pathway for them to join us in a righteous movement to make sure that we're taking care of the least among us and doing so in a way that unlocks our economy, grows the pie overall. And lives up to what Paul Wellstone said, which is when we all do better, we all do better. Absolutely.

Chris: 37:16

Absolutely. I want to give your organization a plug in. Organizations like it too, Joe. there's a growing movement of healthcare workers, patients, advocates who are speaking out. We've done events together, I've done events, with community healthcare here, nationally as well. What advice do you have for. Anyone in those demographics, trying to fight back, how do they do that? And especially in a purple state like Wisconsin, how can they be of service

Joe: 37:40

by showing up and showing out, right. Whether it's. Telling your story whether it's protesting there's nothing more American than protest. This country was founded on protest and we're still trying to live up to some of those founding ideals of, you know, a pretty good idea almost 250 years ago. and you know. It's not gonna be easy. Like progress never comes fast enough in the long arc of this country's history. we gotta play the long game. We gotta understand that we can't fix this tomorrow, we can't fix it next week. We gotta, you know, support the folks who are impacted by it as best we can. And maybe some of that just boils down at the individual level, giving somebody that pep talk, right? these reporting requirements are gonna be a burden. So what can I take off your plate if it's your eight or 9-year-old who, who needs this to survive? What can we take off your plate to make sure you are not among the folks impacted soonest? we gotta keep in mind, a lyric to a song by American Aquarium. the load is heavy and the road is long, but we've only just begun to fight. we must go boldly into the darkness and be the light. If we are that light and don't let anybody extinguish it, we're gonna be all right.

Chris: 38:55

That part, you know, to close this out Joe, I was having a conversation with one of my coworkers the other day about all these inflection points in the history of our nation. we saw it during the World Wars. We saw it during the Civil Rights movement, right. I. I truly believe that this is an inflection point in our country's history. I truly believe that the work you're doing, that the work we all are doing 40 years from now, we'll look back on it and say, this is where we stood. This is how we got here. 40 years from now, when people look back on this political movement, what do you hope that they're gonna say? That we did it, that we found

Joe: 39:28

a way, and America usually does find a way. You mentioned the civil rights movement. It took a damn long time to live up to what was in those founding documents, right? We're talking about healthcare. It was a damn long time between the first idea for universal health coverage and the passage of the Affordable Care Act. It was an idea that both parties had, right? I just hope that, our grandkids and great grandkids, see this moment in retrospect as living up to some of those prior moments where we made great strides forward. Whether it was, the passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments after the war, Winning the, the, the franchise for women in this country. Whether it was the civil rights and voting rights acts of the 1960s, we have long been trying to live up to what Obama used to always say. The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice I hope that 40 years from now they look back on this moment with pride, knowing that we bent the moral arc a little bit towards justice in our time.

Chris: 40:35

Brother, we got work to do Joe, always appreciate speaking with you Thanks for coming out

Joe: 40:38

Thanks for having me.

40:40

Governor Kentucky, Andy Beshear said it best when he said Medicaid is not a red state or a blue state issue. It's a human issue. Medicaid affects all of us. there should be nothing political about making sure a child can see a doctor, making sure that your loved ones are able to receive the care that they need, both at the bedside as well as at home. Every person, regardless of zip code regardless of party line, deserves the dignity of healthcare. We're up for a fight. And it's gonna be uphill battle to be frank. We're all gonna have to stick together. We're all going to have to hold accountable representatives people in policy and lobbyists. All of us are going to have to hold them accountable when it comes to creating environment in which healthcare is a given. Looking forward to our next episode. Stay tuned. We got some good ones coming up for you.