The Community (Part 2)

Transcript

Chris 0:56

Welcome to pulse check, Wisconsin.

Chris Ford 1:23

One of the things you guys talked about was, you know. Correcting the narrative, right? So, so the goal of correcting the narrative initiative that you guys are working on, how does that contribute to reshaping sort of the public perceptions about incarceration?

Shannon 1:36

You wanna take that one, Carl?

Carl 1:37

So what I would say, and where I would start out there, uh, the correcting narrative, uh, campaign for me was so powerful just to start, and I think it's powerful because we, we, we talk about it often, um, as being, you know, changing the narrative and the narrative isn't, as important as what's actually happening and what's actually happening is those bad people need correction. And I saw that and I thought about that and one of the things that really stood out for me was that, you know, Shannon has this way of describing how, you know, changing the narrative is subjective and. Correcting the narrative is math, which, you know, I thought, yeah, that, that's true because one plus one equals two, no matter, where on this globe you stand. And, and I begin to think about how that relates to me. And, and, and my particular personal explanation of it is about court and the pretrial ex experience. Um. When something happens in the court, the judge pauses all proceedings and he tells the stenographer to stop and correct the record. And in correcting that record we're talking about correct, because there's going to be one record at the end of this proceedings and that that record is the narrative. Correcting the record is correcting the narrative so that the narrative serves the purpose that it's supposed to. The narrative that exists for people like myself, for people like Shannon is not serving the public well. It's not serving the people who went through the system, and it's certainly isn't following the along the lines of a healthy producing of good results for the bottom line. And so when you talk about. Doing that kind of work. We're talking about bringing people whose experiences are different from ours, who are different from Milwaukee or Racine or Madison into this. To say that there is one narrative, there is one record, and the one record that exists is not serving you well in Wal Packa or in Rhinelander or in Superior. And so for me, correcting an added work, we get into the specifics and the tangible pieces. Uh, like you said, the podcast, which you're doing very well, the documentary screenings that we hold to bring people in, to help them to understand that this is as much their conversation as anybody else's. Um, the fact that we talk. To people through panels, and we invite people whose experiences are from all over the carceral system spectrum, all over the community spectrum, to come in and talk about what their needs are and how the system as a whole, the 80 plus billion dollar budget we expect for it to serve us all. Is it serving us all? We believe the answer to that is no. And we believe that the data backs up, uh, that statement and to help have that conversation. And unfortunately, we have to switch out some pieces and put in some others. And those pieces are in the form of experiences that are being lifted up and that are being heard. Those experiences in Rhinelander are similar to my own in southeastern Wisconsin. We just haven't gotten on the same page yet because they want safe and secure streets same as we do. We want for playgrounds to be healthy and vibrant and invested in. Here in southeast Wisconsin in the same way we do in the northern part of state. But that conversation has yet to be had. And so for me, the correcting the narrative campaign has been that, oh gosh. And continues to be that. And so I appreciated, you know, being offered the role and being able to have that very progressive and, you know, cohesive. Conversation and in, you know, building that work. You, I, I'm honored to do it. Mm-hmm.

Chris Ford 5:11

Yeah. And it's needed, brother, like you said, it's needed to not only help the people who are out, but pe people who are, in locked facilities, but also to help the general public to help with that, you know, reclamation into society, like you were saying. Right. I can't tell you how many Yes, sir. How many times we overhear, people, people aren't selected for jobs. Right. We, we, we've had. Folks who are trying to do all they can to get back into the workforce, trying to do all they can to, reach higher education, you know, once they, once they get out and hit this roadblock, right? And so it's not only gonna adjust for that narrative, but it's gonna ease that transition again, like you're saying. So I appreciate all the work that you're doing in that respect. Is there any specific, like policy changes or any, like, anything that the community's advocating for right now in general just to, you know, help incarcerated populations, either reacclimating to society or just, living day to day in incarcerated situations.

Carl 6:06

So I would say one of the things that exists is that the community as an organization is partner. It sits on a committee. And that committee is, as Shannon said, the coalition. The coalition has been built, uh, to lift up a couple of different things. One of those things is, uh, we, we believe that a capital supervision is needed. Because there are a lot of states who not just have a set amount of time that they keep a fixed amount of time, they keep people on parole, probation, or supervision, but it is also acknowledging the work that has has been put into a person getting their freedom and maintaining that freedom that serves the public interest, that serves the individual. And it's also, it's also one of those steps. That allows for the system to not struggle in having too many people a part of it. That's one of the things that we, we, we fight for another is that, you know, I mean we really do try our best to showcase the, the humanity and the agency of people, and that the current system and the way that it operates not only strips that from a person for the sake of what they believe to be the health. And, uh, you know, good maintenance of the system, but you leave a person without the very tools needed to as, as they would say, build back better and come back to society to contribute and produce. Mm-hmm. And so I appreciate having that opportunity to lift that up in real time with real, with real examples because there are more than enough examples. Yeah.

Shannon 7:34

Something I was gonna, I was gonna highlight, um, in there about the work we do advocacy wise is we don't do, like, the community doesn't do direct advocacy. That's never been the thing that we focus on through the coalition, our alliance with the coalition as individuals, also the coalition is made up. We try to set it up so it's made up of people rather than organizations because that model. For us, we feel it's gonna be beneficial to have more autonomy for the people instead of if you come from so and so organization and they might not want you working at a certain issue, like that's not your decision. You're into the coalition's like realm now. Right? Like you don't go to Hunger Task Force and tell them, I only want my people doing cans. Like, no, they gonna do boxes and can we, whatever they want, what we would need them to do on this weekend, that's what they came for. Right,

Chris Ford 8:14

right.

Shannon 8:14

And so what we've always had though is this different type of advocacy. I think there's a view a lot of times in advocacy that it's only political, right? I would argue that the more important aspect to advocacy is happening prepo political. It's happening in the communities. It's happening when you talk to your coworkers, your family. When you're talking to your friends and you're talking to people at the gym, like, are you challenging folks when they say things in a way that creates dialogue? Or are you just shutting down or reacting in an angry way that you know makes enemies? And so trying to find ways to expose more folks to this issue through. Empowering stories through open, opening up these conversations rather than getting mad. That is as much advocacy, if not more than talking to your legislator because they're going to naturally do things differently. They're gonna actually talk to their legislators on their own. They're gonna naturally vote based on these conversations you're having in communities. At a grassroots level, rather than just go, have so and so vote on this bill when he's never talked to you until you needed him for this bill. Right. So that's kind of the way we exist and help hopefully, as a value add to the advocacy conversation around this issue.

Chris Ford 9:17

Yeah, and like you said, a lot of times that's, that's even more fruitful than going to traditional avenues of doing that advocacy, right? Because there's so many steps, especially when you're going through the legislative process, you know? To get it on the floor, right. To get a bill on the floor to become a law at that point in time. So you guys are doing exactly the right way and, and hitting that path just to kind of, you know, make sure that you're hitting PE folks in the community so that their actions are changing, right. And so that that later will be downstream effect too. One of the things you guys talked about was partnerships. What partnerships have been most effective in advancing these initiatives, and how do you en envision sort of expanding these collaborations in the future?

Shannon 9:53

We've always been, as an organization, very intent on working together with other organizations. I think what I've learned since I came home, I don't think, I know since I came home, I had this Pollyannish. View of collaboration where, you know, I'm just gonna go meet people and we're going to like, make sure so and so knows about the other organization and they're just gonna all work together as well. And it doesn't happen like that, right? I mean, if you've met human beings, you know, you know how we can find a way to pull defeat from the mouth of victory over and over again. And so what I discovered over and over again is that, um, we need to be more intentional. Okay. Okay.

Chris Ford 10:31

That's okay, bro. No worries.

Carl 10:33

Right. That is adorable

Chris Ford 10:34

because the dad duties don't stop, man. I hear you brother. Alright,

Shannon 10:38

so lemme finish this. Okay. Okay. And so what, what we try to really do then is lean into a coalition of the willing right. Organizations that really wanna work together. We try to find them and we try to build out like ways that we can work together. And so, um, what we are doing currently is we have a variety of organizations locally and nationally that really get it. They really wanna work together and they, they, it's based on like trust. It's not based on a project. They're based on funding. It's based on like you all view things the way we do. The values are there and we're trying to like lean into those relationships a lot more. But I think something that always is, is I think a go. Interesting story as a response to this is when Carl first started, there were some partnerships we had, I think specifically with higher education. And he was like, how did, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong in the way it was set up, Carl, I'm, I'm paraphrasing it, but I think you asked how did this partnership happen? Right. Because we had a really deep partnership with UWM and we're working with them even now and a bunch of stuff. We have a whole week of events we're doing, um, in the fall and even more, we're writing, we're putting together a grant right now, hopefully submitted tomorrow. The Chancellor's Chancellor's Pledge grant, which is with MCW Marquette and UWM, and we have a, a good relationship at each of those facilities, each of those organizations, I have found going to these learning institutions there to be so much will and desire and passion for this issue and to work with us that we've just been leaning into that a lot more lately to see, you know, um, how much we can be of value to what they're trying to do and how much they can be value to us in terms of resources and just legitimacy a lot of times as, as a. Community-based organization, um, it's can be hard to kind of get that view that you know what you're doing or that you know you can be trusted or that you are, you know, a partner to be. On these larger stages, but if you have Marquette CW UW M name on something like the door open, like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, come on in. We ain't know today was with you.

Chris Ford 12:24

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shannon 12:26

So it's like I, I'm trying to really make sure we lean into that and we'll also we have to do our part or we can't just like, say. Give us your name and then that'll get doors open. Like we have to be valuable for their students and for their faculty and like commit and deliver on the projects that we, that we start. So yeah, that's been an area that we've really been into lately and hope to continue with.

Chris Ford 12:45

So one thing, you know, we'll go ahead and close out here guys, but how can our listeners, how can community members, you know, some of my fellow healthcare professionals, how can we all support the community's mission and some of your programs and going forward?

Shannon 12:56

The interesting right of way response that I try to like fight, but I have to at least say, or else I, a poor, uh, nonprofit leader is money. That's always helpful, right? So get that out the way everybody knows that. I feel like you just have to at least make the cliche comment. But beyond that. We really are trying to just have as much access to communities that oftentimes do not understand this issue or don't hear it. Right. And you find that all over the place. That's not even just, um, racial demographics, right? Like you would think Oh, you mean like white people that are rich? Yeah. Yes, for sure. But there are also groups that are. Bipoc that are higher economic levels that also don't, you know, necessarily know about this as much. And so like, I think if anything, it's a class focus that we're looking for and an education focus more than it is, um, a race focus and especially not a gender focus. And so if there's more ways we can get into, CW has a whole lot of people that are gonna be going out into the field and they're gonna become the next country club people. And they're gonna be the next folks that are, you know, wine and dining at these really expensive restaurants and shopping.

Chris Ford 13:57

Some of'em are already. That was my experience gonna school there.

Shannon 14:01

We have access right now to these, these groups, these companies, these, these organizations, these populations that we need to talk to. We need to like, get them to come to our, um, events and check stuff out. We have a dinner on June 12th in Shorewood at Love Cafe. It's, it's a really creative way we try to use prison themed food. I have to emphasize prison themed. This is not prison food. It's food created by a professional chef. That is based off the creativity of meals inside and that we use each course to talk about a different issue around the criminal legal system with storytellers. And so we had that June 12th, and so we just have these different things we're doing. We'd love to have people come and check out different ways to find out about this issue and this topic and this population more, and go to more places with people that can be those access points. So like for me, that's always the most important thing. If we can get, uh, that.

Chris Ford 14:49

Yeah. Yeah.

Carl 14:50

And I, I, I would like to hit you pretty straightforward. Uh, Chris, with, with, uh, a couple things, because I make a connection and a comparison often about health in the urban area versus rural area. Um, I, I equate that lately to wifi. People understand that wifi is a given in the cities. A lot of people don't understand that. People struggle in, in rural areas with wifi and the great equalizer. And the thing that brings those two, um, those two, uh, together is access. In the same way that we talk about, we talk about safety and health city, um, that urban versus rural. Again, we're talking about access. I've had a different conversation about what community safety is and a community investment in safety is, and it was a different conversation in a, in a urban area with, uh, folks from the city versus a rural area, from folks who grew up in that type of environment. Whether it was suburban or just rural outside, and I'm like, look, we're still talking about, I was like, but the word that binds those two together is wellness. If we talked about, if we changed the, if we changed the phrase public safety to public wellness, we'd have a completely different set of goals. We'd have a completely different set of investment points, and we'd have a way to bring urban and rural together to where we'd always, and continue to have the same conversation. I'm looking to build that bridge because I believe that's how we get it done.

Chris Ford 16:10

Yeah, absolutely, man, more power to you all. Please let me know of any way I can help out, you know, in any of my networks as well. How can folks reach out to you? How can folks get more information about the community come to these events, things of that nature? What's the best way?

Shannon 16:24

Well, the website commu the, so forgot we have the like dash in there, thud-community.org. We're on social media. Um, pretty easy to find out, I hope. LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. So we kind of keep everyth things updated there, but anyone can, you know, sign up for our newsletter, that'd be great. That's the way we keep everybody up to date. Um, it kind of comes right delivered directly to their email every week with new things we're doing. So those would be the best ways to kind of keep up and, and check out what we're doing.

Chris Ford 16:51

Oh guys. Well Shannon, Carl, I appreciate you guys coming out, man. I'm looking forward to talking more, keeping the conversation going. Again, feel free to reach out. Anyway, if I can help out, I'll be sure to pass this along to my, my colleagues as well. But thank you for all that you all are doing and, and best of luck and, and, and all the things that the community is doing, all the good things you're doing in the community.

Shannon 17:10

Thank you so much for yeah, the time to come talk.

Carl 17:12

Same to you my

Shannon 17:13

man. Meet you listeners.

Chris Ford 17:14

Absolutely guess.