Ep.72 Grief and Anger: The Feeling No One Lets You Admit

This week I'm sitting down with Dr. Melissa Weiss for a raw, unfiltered conversation about grief, trauma, and what it actually takes to become the creator of your life instead of the victim of it. 

Melissa lost her husband Derek to COVID complications while she was nine months pregnant, and she takes us straight into it: the hospital, the missed phone call, the moment she found out he wasn't coming home. We talk about the difference between people who let tragedy become their identity and people who let it become their catalyst, why the victim role can feel comfortable even before the tragedy hits, and how nervous system regulation, radical self honesty, and plain old stillness rebuilt her from the inside out. 

If you've ever wondered why your healing doesn't look like everyone else's, or caught an old pattern like people pleasing or self judgment sneaking back in after you thought you'd already done the work, this conversation will meet you exactly there.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• Why the victim role can feel comfortable, even familiar, long before tragedy ever shows up, and how to catch yourself in it
• The grief box and grief button metaphor Sari shares, and why grief never fully disappears, it just gets quieter
• How dissociation and "throwing yourself into tasks" is actually the body's intelligent protection mechanism, not a personal failure
• Why radical ownership, not blame, is the real starting point of healing
• How your nervous system has to be calibrated before it can actually call in the next relationship, opportunity, or level of life
• Why stillness and quiet, not constant doing, is where you learn the most about what you actually need
• How grief and old trauma resurface together, and why healing one often means finally facing the other

REFLECTION

• Have you ever noticed the victim role feeling strangely comfortable, even before anything tragic happened?
• What is the "grief button" in your own life, the thing that still gets hit sometimes even years later?
• What would you need to feel calibrated enough in your own nervous system before you could actually call in what you say you want?

Work With Sari

If you've done the healing work but something keeps pulling you back into old patterns and you can't quite figure out why, that's exactly what a 1:1 session is for. Book a Freedom Roadmap call and let's see what you can't see from inside the jar. 

And if you're the woman who has read every book and listened to every episode and is still waiting to feel the shift in your body, start with the free 5-Minute Nervous System Reset. 

Something that actually helps tonight. 

Connect with Dr. Melissa Weiss

You're not broken. You're not behind. And you're not alone. If you made it here, that means something.

TIMESTAMPS

00:56 — Setting up the topic: the grief Melissa has walked through since losing her husband 

04:11 — How Melissa met her husband Derek, and what made her know he was the one 

16:10 — Dissociating, then throwing herself into logistics instead of feeling the loss 19:28 — How the body protects a pregnant mother and a grieving wife at the same time 

21:51 — Admitting she sometimes hates her husband for dying, and why all the feelings need room 

22:52 — Sari's grief box and grief button metaphor 

26:02 — What actually separates someone who grows from tragedy from someone who stays the victim 

27:45 — Passive suicidal thoughts, and choosing to keep going anyway 

29:21 — Radical ownership over blame, and stepping out of the victim role 

32:33 — The lesson from Melissa's energy healer on receiving feedback without becoming a victim 

34:24 — How the depth of past trauma reveals the height you're capable of reaching 

35:36 — Facing childhood sexual trauma while grieving and parenting solo 

45:00 — Grief, death, and the idea that we only experience 1 percent of reality 54:02 — How grief recalibrates what you will and won't tolerate in relationships 57:18 — Dating again as a widow, and choosing joy before choosing a partner 1:00:59 — Why your nervous system has to be calibrated before you can call in what you want 

1:03:11 — Melissa's closing message: don't be afraid of stillness 

1:05:52 — Melissa's move to Florida and the new Reclaim for Women program with Dr. Jen Auchter

5 minute nervous system reset ad for midroll

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Fuck anxiety. It's a battle cry. All the women out there are so tired of continuing to let anxiety keep them imprisoned in their own lives. If you wake up already exhausted, even after a full night of sleep, most of your day taking care of everything. Responsibility. Show up with a smile. You have it all together. I'm going to share the story. Hello, everyone. I have this amazing fucking woman in front of me. Melissa. Hi. Dr. Melissa Weiss. And um, if you guys uh caught up last year, her and her partner, um, Jen Octor were on. We talked about so many great things. We um we talked about functional medicine. We talked about, I mean, I think we we like had the whole gamut in that episode. The meaning of life.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Like, what uh what didn't we talk about?

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah. And um, we were just sitting here talking and we were like, we were kind of wanting to catch up a little bit, and we were like, we should just press record. Fuck it. Let's just go. So here we are. She's with us. It's just gonna be a girl chat um about, I'm sure lots of things we're gonna get into. One of the main things I want to get into is just talking about um the grief that Melissa has had to go through in her life losing her husband while she was pregnant. Um, and I'm sure that we're gonna get into that. But before all that, just I'm so glad to fucking have you here. I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Like I feel like I have been so excited for this day to just have you by like I love Jen, but I like want it, I just wanted you to myself.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

It's funny too, because I think even when I initially sent you the link to um like find a spot for us to record, and like you booked it way far out. And I was like, why are we waiting so long?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

What does she have going on? Um, I don't even know what my rationale is. Maybe because oh, you probably because I didn't have child care over the three weeks of Christmas break, but never ended for my son. So that's probably it. But yeah, I'm so happy to be here. I've been so excited to join because I've been listening to your podcast, and your voice is like an angel's voice. It's I want to just have it in the background always. So your podcast, your episodes are so meaningful, and you speak from such a place of love and kindness, and you're just so honest and authentic, and it's just it's really awesome. So I'm just so grateful that I'm on this, I'm on this episode. Like I'm so honored to even be asked to be here. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Well, I definitely um receive that. Thank you. Um sometimes I wonder who the fuck is listening because I don't get a lot of feedback, and I'm just hoping that I'm bringing some sort of value to the world. Um, so I very much receive that. And also I think that when you and I first connected, um, even with Jen, like there was just something about you that I was just like, I you've gone through so much, and you have persevered insanely. And I just want to commend you for everything that you've gone through. And I, and I just think that like women like you that just continue to show up for their life, like that's who I want to be around. That's who I want to surround myself with. Like the the courage to just keep going. That like we're here. Everything that you experienced is for a reason. And now you're in this place where you guys have your own podcast. You're sharing everything that you're experiencing, you're going through in just such a casual, beautiful way. And like this is why we're here to have these conversations. And so I just I I love that we're doing this and and and no, no um shade to Jen because we fucking Oh god, no, she's my I mean, she's like my my life partner.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Um, so no. Uh yeah, thank you very much. For I mean, it's it's been a four-year journey of like this rebirth. Uh, it's so intense to lose a partner. Um, and I don't even know where to begin, but should I just like tell my story? I guess yeah, um, let's I'm here for it. Okay. Um, so I met my husband on Tinder, everybody. No way. Yeah. Yeah. It was like kind of what I don't know if Tinder is like what a booty call hookup, whatever now, but like it didn't feel like it then. And that was in 20, maybe 2016, I guess. But yeah, so then we got married in 2019, and then I was very anxious to have a baby. Like, oh, I could feel it in my womb. Like, just it was like I even remember telling girlfriends, like, my womb is weeping, like I just and they thought I was crazy. People thought I was crazy, but I'm like, I just I just need to have a baby. So we go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Can I ask you? So, like, what what um number one, what's his name? Oh, Derek is my husband. Okay, yep. So, what what did you know about Derek that like he was the one after meeting someone, like on a dating side, nonetheless, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Um, well, he was the most authentic on our first date. He told me straight up he's got a crazy ex-wife and two children, and it's very, very challenging. And like his honesty, his authentic um nature was just such a draw because at that point I had been going out on many dates. I was like a professional dater, and everybody that I talked to was like, my life is perfect. Like, and they're living like in their mom's hoarding basement. Like, I just like no, nobody's life is perfect. And so when I met him, he was like, No, it's a hot mess, but like I'm I'm doing good, but it's like there's a lot of noise, and I'm just like, well, that's really refreshing. Or maybe I was like, Oh, maybe I can fix you. I don't know, anyways, who knows? Hindsight, right? Um, but yeah, I thought I liked his the way he presented himself and how confident he was, and like, um, I don't know, there's just a lot. He had go a lot going for him. He was a business owner, so was I. Just like a lot of cool stuff that he was getting himself into. He's into therapy, which was like so just emotionally intelligent. Um, so yeah, that's that was the draw. And he's six four and like so handsome. So yeah, he was at all the things. Um, and so that was really, really was fun. It was, and we were a blended family. It was very, very hard, very complicated, lots of layers of stuff that I never understood fully until I was really in it. Um, but yeah, he just to answer your story. I mean, the answer answer your question, it was essentially like his authentic nature of knowing who he was and what he was going on in his life. I was like, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Okay, so you were like hot to have a baby. Hot to hot.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Probably when I first met him, I was like, let's just have a baby. So you're having great sex. Yes. Um, yeah, we got pregnant so quick too. I thought like I you never know. Like you hear these crazy stories, and I had no idea. And I was in my late 30s, so you know, we have these geriatric wombs, so they say. Um, and yeah, I got pregnant really quick, and that was it was I loved being pregnant. Best exp uh just the most experience ever. And then unf kind of came to this crazy shit show of a life where um I got COVID. Uh, he my husband got COVID in 2021. I got COVID around the same time, and very actually we just were very sick, but we were keeping it together. Like we went to the doctors, we had um my family's best friend.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Was this while you were pregnant?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

This was while I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So um, yeah, so I should start. I was nine months or I was eight months pregnant, almost nine months pregnant at the time. And it all actually even started before that. Let me go back. My husband got um, oh god, what is the he got it autoimmune. Oh my god, I can't think of it. Anyways, it doesn't matter. So he was on he was like kind of unwell and then got COVID, and then I got COVID, and then we were just not well. But we were taking care of each other. We had a doctor's that was kind of overseeing us. We were, you know, we were going to the doctor, and then it just started to go downhill really, really fast for him. Like it really took a turn. And I remember when I I just, you know, we woke up one morning and I thought, it's time for you to go to the it's time for us to go to the hospital. Like this is too, this is too much. Um, I was very, very traumatic at night. The nights were the worst because he couldn't breathe and he was coughing and I'm from COVID. From COVID. I'm I'm sick. He's sick, he's six four, he's a huge guy, and I'm nine months pregnant. Like, like, what is gonna happen if he falls? I'm thinking of all the worst things. I'm like, just it's just time. And I drove him to the ER at like five in the morning. And when I dropped him off, I thought, you know, that just like that weird feeling of like, I'm never gonna see him again. I don't know. Like, I it's not like I mean, I was I'm pregnant and I have all these hormones and all this shit going on too. But like there was just this gut feeling like, oh my god, this is it. Like, I and I don't that's it was it. So you didn't stay at the hospital with him. I could not. They kicked me out. Like they were like, you still have COVID, you need to get out of here. I snuck in the waiting room and they were like, you gotta get out of here. So it's 2021, you know, it was like that last wave that kind of came through.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

That was the like, um, I know there was that really intense strain. I forget what it was called. But like I had it too. I was in the hospital for 10 days.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah, like my oxygen was like in the low 80s, like couldn't get it back up. Like sometimes, like I remember laying in the hospital and my heart rate was like 35. And like my husband was like freaking the fuck out at the same time, like thinking, like, what is happening? And and I was at the time very much into med. I'm so glad that I had gotten into meditation and things like this, because I was really like living in this place of like, right now my body needs help, it needs support. And like you being upset about the situation isn't helping me. Like, I need you to fucking have hope. And he was an ER nurse, so he just like sees the worst all the time. But yeah, I mean, that was a really hard strain, I think, for people that were even quote unquote healthy.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, that is so crazy. I did not know that story. So did they have to intubate you?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

I was never intubated, but I was on really heavily ox have like a high dose of oxygen. Um and uh, and then when I got home, I was on oxygen for like two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Wow. Oh my gosh, what a story. That is so that is so hard. I so I'm I'm so you you know what that strain was awful. And it was it was a weird strain of like people dying that shouldn't die, people that were sick that shouldn't. And you know, God bless my field. Like I love being a chiropractor, I love being a functional medicine doctor, but oftentimes when I go to like a a lecture or whatever with somebody who's a little bit on their soapbox, they like to disregard COVID. They like to say that people were misdiagnosed, or they like, you know, all of these things that they, you know, it was not, it was not real. It was like there's just a lot of things that people kind of shit on. And it's very upsetting when, because it's like it was very real to me. Um and that process of him being in the hospital was like seven days. And on day, I could tell, you know, eventually he stopped kind of responding to my text. We didn't speak, he could. I he couldn't really speak. He was on the the most oxygen that they could give him. And it was so interesting because I kept on having different experiences with different practitioners. Like the doctors would say one thing, the nurses would say the other thing, and then you got a different doctor. Um, and it was just very hard to keep track of. There was a lot of notes that I took. I and like I said, I had we had a family friend that was head of EER. So we were, I was like, this is what this is the stats right now, this is what his blood level, like, this is what everything looks like. And they're like, okay, okay, he's good, he's good, he's gonna come home. And I'm like, oh, night, okay, oh, this is cool. Um, and then on like day three, I was like, oh, he's barely responding. And he was doing kind of like weird things that he wouldn't do. Like, and I won't even get into it, but in the middle of the night, I missed a phone call. And the phone call was from the doctor saying they asking me to sign off on being intubated, but I missed it. And so they had to decide life or death, what should they do without my approval? And they intubated him because apparently he fell. He, I think he tried to get up and he fell. And so, yeah, they they intubated him. And I think that's the start of my insomnia, to be honest, because that phone call was there's a lot of guilt with that, you know. There's a lot of I don't I would have probably just gone with whatever the doctor said because I as much, you know, I'm in the medical world, but I don't know what I'm pregnant, I don't know what's going on. It's fine, it's it was like one in the morning. I mean, like I wouldn't have known even what to say. I would have just said, do whatever you think is right.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Um and so even with that, you know, just like what you're saying, Melissa, like, right, like you're consciously rationalizing all of it, but like that was a big trauma to your system. And you know, you're saying like this might even be where your insomnia started. Like that is the body's protector showing up saying, Don't sleep.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, you'll miss something. Yeah, you'll miss a big something. Yeah, it it was it was, and then it you know what's the weirdest thing is when I got off the phone, I went back to sleep. So weird, but I was also pregnant. There's you know, you just do things in these trauma traumatic experiences, and you're like, wow, that was really weird that I did that. Um, or interesting, I guess, not weird, but yeah, and then that was a roller coaster of like one day he was fine. One minute they were going to do literally in one day, they said we have this breakthrough kind of treatment, it's called ECMO, and and we're gonna fly it and we're gonna air um airlift him to U of M. We're gonna do this treatment, and this is we think this he's a good candidate. And then literally an hour later, and they they called me and they said he's he's going to die. So I went like I went and I'm like it mind you, I'm at the doctor's office getting my own all like my ultrasound, all my stuff for my pregnancy. And they're like, he's he's gonna be he's gonna be okay. We can do this awesome treatment. I think he's a great candidate. And with it, like I swear to God, at our the doctor's like, I don't know who told you that, but this he's dead. He's he's not he will not live. And I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Like I I I just I what went through what like what went through your mind at the time your body, god oh um I disas I disassociated nobody was home.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

That was it, like because I I and I also am a planner and a executor, like high functioning. And so I bypassed the feelings kind of and then started thinking about the other things because there were a lot of other things. He had two businesses, he had employees, he had a and this is sounds so trivial, but in my mind it wasn't. We had he had construction businesses, there was open construction, it was unsafe. So there was like a lot like I had tasks, I gave myself tasks.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

You threw yourself into it so you wouldn't have to feel but in the same aspect, I don't know if you've ever been through probate or having an estate or being um the legal representative.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

You don't really have a lot of freedoms of taking time off when there are businesses and there's an op there's an open like I'm it because I even talked to my attorney, I'm like, I really wish I would have slowed things down. And he's like, You didn't have a choice. And I'm like, I'm and like in the hindsight, it's like, well, we always have a choice. I could have delegated, but I didn't like I don't know. I I don't know. I try not to be too hard on myself in that pro on that process because slowing down would have meant really feeling feeling and I don't know if you know, at being nine months pregnant and really feeling the catastrophe of what was happening.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

And then the the baby feeling what you're feeling as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah. I mean, I remember when I they told me he was going to die, I was in the car with my mom. And I definitely there was feelings, but it wasn't you know, I envy the people that when they grieve, they wail and they cry out and they express and they physically I am uh I'm a not a person that does that. I am an internalizer. Um, I'm like come from a line of German stoic people, and so crying and showing emotion, I'm getting better at that, but especially at that time, it was very important for me to be stoic in important, like not really, but important in my how I felt like I needed to operate, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

But um and it's so interesting how the like the body is like so fucking intelligent, you know, to say we're gonna shut down right now, right? Like we're like we I mean, number one, so many things going on, right? Like having a full-on baby still being created within your womb space, right? That's one protection mechanism that your body's just already going through because that's what pregnancy is. And then this thing happening, and how do how does it protect you and allow you to keep still functioning as the pregnant mother, but then also just as a fucking human being, as a wife, as so many things, right? And how intelligent that is that it it can do that. It can literally just like create a wall of separation. And here we're gonna move from this. But it's like at the same time, like it where's the like intelligence of now let's go back to actually deal with what we separated, where like the the cut happened, you know, and like allowing us to to come back into that yeah, fullness stat that's a lot of work, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Like it's all it's it's um you were you're absolutely right because it was that innate intelligence that got me through that. I I think that it all was for a reason. And and it was all my response was all it was to protect my baby, it was for my um to do very hard things. I had to lay off two teams of people, I had to um yeah, I I had to do I had to like I was I mean the the list of things that were happening around me was insanity. Um I felt like I had a vortex of I don't even know if I want to say negativity. It was just um the death of my husband caused Cascade, and I know a lot of people that I'm that they've lost a main person in their life. There's a cascade of shit that can happen when you lose somebody that is like literally your focal point. Like my husband, my lover, my partner, my my boss, honestly, because I worked in his businesses, um, the father of my child. But and then we had a home, we like all these things. And there was so much shit that just like it just it just cascaded down. And so I had to get, I had to do these things. I had to do these things. And so the undoing of the trauma, I would say, honestly took me about four years. And if you're going through grief and you think, well, I'll just, you know, there's so many different practices that are absolutely wonderful to help you through that and through the trauma, but it is a very much a journey. And it's important to not get stuck in it. It's important to feel all of the feelings and don't disregard even the weird ones. Like I was actually on the the call with my therapist today, and we talked about how sometimes I hate my husband for dying. Like I hate him for leaving. I do. And I I just led a grief group recently, and the people could not admit that there was any bad feelings other than love and sadness. And I think you can get really stuck when you only allow certain feelings to come in.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I think it's it's it's the stages of grief, and they all have to happen in order to truly heal from it. And I think that you're right. Like I think that that takes takes years. Sometimes for people, it takes a lifetime. And I don't know. Have you ever seen um there's like a little um drawing that somebody showed me once of like the grief box and the grief button? Have you ever seen that? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

So if you could like imagine that there's like a little square box, and at the top of the box, there's like a little red button, but it's on the inside of the box, it's not on the outside.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

And then there's a giant ball that in the beginning, the ball is almost as big as the box. So like cover inside the entire box, and it's hitting that grief button inside, like almost every second, every minute. But as time goes on, the ball slightly gets smaller, it starts bouncing around in the box more, and it's hitting the grief button not as often, right? As it gets smaller and smaller. And so I think that even when you're 10, 20 years down the road of grief, like that ball's still in there. Now it might just look like a tiny little pea size thing that's like hitting that grief button once a year, but like it still waves, it still comes through you. And I think that like allowing the grace of just the experience when it comes, which I'm sure is easier to say in hindsight, reflecting than it is in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

No, I that's that's so true. It's it's integrating this, it's integrating this loss that will forever be. It is a forever journey, and how we have still have to show up in different ways in our life. I have a son that I can't just stay in bed and not do life. I have to be a part of, I have to be in life, right? And so, how do I integrate that into parenting him? How do I integrate it into being a leader? How do I integrate it into being a friend and a daughter? And um, and sometimes it's super ugly and sometimes it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

And I love that permission that you give yourself.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's you know, you don't want to treat people unf unkindly. I don't believe I ever have done that. Understanding, you know, when you lose somebody too, it if you're on the healing path anyways, it projects you into knowing yourself wholeheartedly, too at a cellular level, like knowing who you want to be, what you want to do, how do you want to experience life, because it makes everything almost feel like it's right on the surface, right? Like the pain fibers are like right, the nerves are right there. And every time you get touched, it hurts. That's what grief can feel like. It's just so sensitive. And so you get real clear on like your boundaries and what you're willing to do, who you're wanting to spend your time with, what what you're not going to accept, what kind of behavior you're not going to accept. You don't really have the emotional bandwidth to put up with shit anymore. And I've that's what I've found. Honestly, losing Derek as it's the worst thing in my life, it's also the best thing in my life because of the growth that I have, I can't I cannot even believe how far I've come.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah. What what do you think? Um so obviously, like there was, you know, for you, like you're using this trauma as a catalyst to like really decide whether or not you're gonna live your life or not, and and by what terms and all of these things. But I'm sure that there are also people out there that really just become paralyzed and become the victim. Like, what do you think separates um everything that you've done versus like the person who just continues to to live this life as the victim of this tragedy?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, that's such a good question because I think that I the victim role actually was very comfortable for me. Even before Derek died, I have to admit. And I started observing that in me. So I would say that observation of my feelings and of my traits and of my behaviors was important to kind of zoom out and watch and look and watch myself and how I was acting was really important for my growth. I think don't get me wrong, when there were very there were many times where it looked like I was that person that you're describing. Um I thought at times it would be easier if I were dead, honestly. Not that I would kill myself, but can I say that? I'm not sure if I can say that, but I think you can say that. Okay. I that it's called passive suicide. It's like where I just thought it just be easy.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

I think everybody honestly has that thought at some point. I've had it.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, like it's such a it's such a weird, I think it's kind of a weird feeling because I I think internally we should always want to survive. Um, but I was like, man, this is really fucking hard. I did not sign up for this shit. This is like, what contract did I decide up in heaven? Like where I was like, yeah, this is good. I mean, it was the it's the hardest thing I've ever experienced. And so I thought, man, I don't want to do this anymore. So it looked, I mean, it looked, it looked trouble, it looks not great at times. Um, but I think observing my behavior, I also have sought out a lot of help. I've I've also I've had therapy, I've had cranial sacral therapy, I've worked with an energy healer, I have had hypnotherapy, I've I've done a lot of work through the last four years of understanding myself so that I allowed myself to feel all of these feelings. Because these feelings for somebody who was raised in the family that I was raised, and probably a lot of millennials out there, we weren't really allowed big feelings. It made other people uncomfortable, it made our parents uncomfortable, and we were trying to protect them from ourselves, right? And so I kept it pretty small with my feelings. So yeah, I just kind of unraveled that in different ways. But I I don't know if I answer your question.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

I think I tried to.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Yeah, I mean, I think I hear what I hear you saying, I think is just so much of I think even like what I try to instill in new clients that I work with is number one, the the willingness, right, to actually be able to be the observer, to be aware of how you're acting, how you're being, how you're thinking, responding, all of these things. And to have like that radical honesty of like, damn, like I'm I'm the I'm the one behaving this way. Like it's not, you know, so-and-so's fault, or it's not my husband's fault, or it's not my mother's fault, right? Like to actually be willing to almost decide like there's this ownership or accountability in like the person that you're being. And like I think we live in a world where it's so easy to just like point the finger, you know, and a lot of times that finger is pointed at our partner because they tend to be a mirror of whatever we're experiencing in life. Um, but just first the the ownership of I'm doing this, but then also realizing that you have a part to play, right? Like, yes, I think, and that's where I think this is where we co-create in life of like you will absolutely be the creator in your life by sitting there and being the victim because you're gonna continue to create a reality where you are the victim. Yeah, but then deciding okay, first you're observing that, like, hey, I'm being this way, and then you're deciding actually, I think I can I'm worthy of more. And it's almost like maybe we don't even really realize that we're making that decision that we're worthy of more. But and I I don't know, maybe we're co-creating with with the universe at that point in time by them even just planting that seed. Um, but okay, what what is something I can do to actually stop being in this way? And maybe that is saying, I need fucking help.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yeah. Well, yeah, and like my my energy healer, her name is Young. She is absolutely amazing. She taught me something recently. Like, you know, I if somebody said something not nice to me, I would be the victim and I would say they're abusing me or manipulating me. She taught me that we can have maybe they're there were they're telling you something and you can take it in. And we all have strengths and weaknesses. And what do they what are they teaching you? And now like we don't have to accept bad behavior, right? But looking and observing yourself, like we're talking about, and saying, like, okay, that's a weakness of mine. But it also, there's it on the floor, there's always going to be a strength to it. You're always gonna have something on the opposite end of it that says, like, that you're really good at. And so it's this acceptance of like who you are as a person that is so healing. And I am a person that is a perfectionist people pleaser. So my internal dialogue is a lot of bad girl, you didn't do it right, you didn't do enough, you're not a good enough friend, you're not a good enough, like all of these things. And and now I'm just like, I like see that I hear the dialogue and I think, oh no, baby girl, we don't do that anymore. Like we just don't, we just don't. We're not gonna do that to ourselves. So um, I don't know, I got on a tangent.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

No, I I love it. But I think even just being able to to to be able to like step outside of yourself and to see, oh wow, you're literally like shaming yourself or guilting yourself or judging yourself right now. And for you to just even be able to sit there and be like, actually, we don't do this anymore, right? And I think that's that that highest version of ourselves that steps in, that's connected to source. That's just like, well, are we gonna keep being in that like victim mentality? Or are we gonna like step the fuck up and decide to do something different? And I think that's just the question every day, regardless of how small of a circumstance you're experiencing. And I and I think even like with your there was somebody that told me one time, because I I had a sexual trauma as a child, and somebody told me the the depth in which the trauma existed, right? Being so low, like really down here, actually shows you the height in which you can actually go. Wow. On the other side, right? And so when you think about these people, or even yourself, right? When you were in this victim mentality, like we can hang out in that really, really low zone, that low frequency of that. And you know, like you said, some people even get to the point to where like, this is too much. Like, I'm tapping out, I'm done, and they decide they're done with this world. Or you know that like there's like some sort of innate knowing that you can actually skyrocket to a place that you didn't even know it was possible because of how deep you had to go.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

And I don't know, that gives me hope.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Oh, it's that's so beautiful. Because it's it's hard when you are knee deep in it and you think, where is where is this going? Is there an end here? Um, and it's interesting because you talk about like sexual trauma. Um I also have sexual trauma. And what in the last four years of losing my husband, being a new parent, being a solo new parent has caused me to do is to dive into all of it, the past sexual traumas, the all the childhood wounds, because I don't know if this happened to you when you became a parent, but I think regardless of the loss of my husband, your children reflect to you the stuff you need to work on. And I also want to be better for him, right? So having all this newness of being a parent and a and a widow, I had to start healing from the sexual trauma that I did not face for years. The fact that I didn't admit that it was a trauma or even acknowledge that it was a problem. I mean, um, so it's it's huh, like it sucks to have to grieve my lot the loss of my husband and heal from other shit. But there is when you get to the other side and you look back and you think, thank you God, I had to deal with that. I'm so grateful that I was I had to look that in the freaking mirror. I like look at that dead on and say, okay, this is my trauma. Let's let's freaking dive into it. Um like I just I wish it was a little bit spread out and maybe like dosed in, but you know what? I'm an all or nothing kind of girl anyway. So I just was like, let's just let's do this.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yeah. Well, and like um there's a call today that I was on Kathy Heller call and she was talking about um Willy Wonka and how like when he ended up getting the like second chocolate bar that had the golden ticket in it, like he like slowly unwrapped it and like kind of saw and then like slowly unwrapped some more and like kind of couldn't believe that like this was happening. And so she was talking about how life is kind of like we like to slowly unwrap things. We don't we like to like be enticed by the next thing that's coming. Like we don't want to just like rip it open and then like okay, now the experience is gone, you know? And that's kind of like what life is is like, yeah, like when you open the first piece of the candy bar of life, you know, you didn't know that the sexual trauma was gonna happen. When you open the second, second, you know, part of the candy bar of life, you didn't know that you were gonna lose your husband, right? Like if we knew all of that right away, like and also that we were gonna win at life, like boom, the game's over. I know.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, right. I didn't even I love Kathy Heller, by the way. I love her analogies like that. Um, are they metaphor? I don't know what they are, but yeah, she's just like she's oh, I've been listening to her. I I have to, I can't go usually do the 10 o'clock when she she has like the 14-day whatever thing. And um, and then I started listening to um Sam Seeley. Have you heard the breath? She does breath work. Oh, oh man, I'm gonna send you some stuff. She is so she her energy is like contagious, it's so good. Um, my HRV has been like skyrocketing the last three days because I'm just like, oh, I love all I love the feminine empowerment. I love the movement of women right now, especially us, like our millennial, our like cohort of people being like, let's we're done doing what we our our mothers did and we're done doing what we've been doing. We're done. We want to do better, we want to teach our kids better. I love the movement of people out there. And no, and the not being the victim of their circumstance and of their situation is just so beautiful. Cause there's also the opposite side of like blame everybody else for your problems, blame your parents, blame your for your spouse. Like you said, like there's just so there's just other ways of looking at it, and these women like Kathy Heller, they're just like flipping the script for us, and it's been amazing to listen to them. And you are another woman that is just like tot changing, changing lives. So it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Thank you. Yeah, I um I think it's I think that like we have like this is again like why you did sign that contract to come into this lifetime and go through all of these things, right? To even just be here right now having this conversation and like instilling hope into the rest of the world. I it's like there's so much noise where we could glue ourselves into. I mean, a friend of mine sent me a text yesterday about like the whole ice thing that's happening, and she just like had it, it ruined her whole day, you know, and it just really got her into this funk. And she's also um, she's a manifestation coach. And I was just like, I have to believe that what we are doing, why we came here on this earth, as small or large as it is, that we're creating an impact of joy, of freedom, of happiness, of fun. And that these things are being the ripple effect for those horrible things that are happening.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, you know, and this is where Dr. Jen is just shines. Oh, she she's got the blinders on a lot of things. She shines so much. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 43:23

She shines so much if she could only fucking see herself.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Oh man. She's got these blinders to a lot of the noise. Like, I'll be like, oh my God, did you hear? And she's like, no, I don't waste my time on that. I'm like, oh God, okay. Well, maybe I should have. And I like whenever I go to like scroll or to like Doom Scroll and like learn about like there's I it's I understand the importance of educating yourself on the things of the world. I understand that. We have, uh I feel like we all have a mission in our life. And my mission is doesn't really involve a lot of the catastrophes. I've already had my own catastrophe, and I have I want to focus on helping others. I want to focus on raising an amazing man in this world, my son. Um, so I have focus on those things. And so I I'm trying to be more like Jen. I'm just like, it does, I just don't, it's noise that I don't Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

What is it doing for you? And that's how, you know, I I similarly live the same way. And sometimes like that, I used to give myself a lot of guilt for it because to me, like I can only control with what is in the vicinity of the world I'm experiencing. And I don't watch the news, and I have filtered my Instagram thread to where I only see the like greatness that I want to experience on Instagram. And like, I don't have a lot of friends that share things that are going on the news and media, and so like I Know and if I'm supposed to know, it comes into my field of awareness in the way that I can receive it, that I need to know about it. But like, other than you know, me doing what I'm doing and me sending love to these parts of the world that need it when they are experiencing this catastrophe, like there's nothing else I can do. Like it is literally out of my and and maybe some people disagree with that, but like to me, if we're constantly turning up the volume on all the horrible things that are going on in the world, what is that doing to our level of vibration? And what is then that vibration in turn telling our cells, our DNA to feel? And now we're actually condensing down the energy versus expanding it and our greatness.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

I know, I agree. I'm I'm right now I'm reading. Um, I don't ever say his name right, but Gabor Mat Mate, the body says no. I cannot believe at a you're absolutely right. At a from the DNA changes, like we change with this, with our suppression of emotions, with who we hang out with, with what we look at. And I don't think we're meant to see what's happening all over the world. We never I mean, we've our technology has progressed so quickly that our brain is has not evolved to it. And so now that's why we have a lot of us has crippled we have crippling anxiety because not only we're fighting our bat um battles locally in our own home in our own body, our own, at our own body, exactly. Or now we're fighting battles that in countries that we've never even been to and we never probably will go to. And so it's it is, I know it might upset some people, like, oh, they're just ignorant, you know, women or whatever. And it's like, yeah, well, I'm just I gotta keep my peace and I need to help a lot of people around me, and that's what I need to focus on.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

And maybe, maybe these, you know, like just as you experienced your grief, right? Like, maybe it is these people that are experiencing these things, their loved ones dying, and you know, whatever is happening over in these other countries, maybe their grief that they're now gonna experience is gonna be the thing that actually wakes them the fuck up. And that was supposed to happen in that divine way. And like maybe that I think also the thing that why this feels really heavy for people is because we as a society believe that death is finite.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Hmm. Man, you blew my mind. I just love you. It's so true. We're so scared of death. We're it's yeah, we all it's the one thing we know for sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

So we're holding on to this life, this lifetime with dear life. And don't get me wrong, like, of course, I don't want to die today. I don't want my children to die. I don't want my I don't want anybody in my life to die, right? But I also know that what's what they're gonna experience on the other side is not this horrific thing. And yes, my body is gonna experience massive grief from them now being physically absent. But like, this is also just like expanding the mind, expanding the model of reality that like what we're experiencing is one percent of reality. What even just like you and me sitting here seeing each other right now is one percent of reality. What's the other 99% that's happening that we don't even have eyes or ideas to because we've never fucking opened ourselves up to it?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Mm-hmm. Such a good point. Yeah, I don't, you know, the death thing is is an interesting subject. And there's I am pretty still scared of death. Like I am, it's it, even though I know it's for sure, it's still there's something. Maybe I need to work through it. I'm not sure. Maybe it's part of my healing, but sometimes when I think about my husband being dead, it is I can feel myself disassociated. Like just the thought of that finality. And I think this is where my spiritual faith then like comes in. Because that's why I think having a spiritual faith is so important. It adds lay to your life, everybody. So just get it.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

It does. It literally lengthens your tier, it lengthens your telomeres, literally.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

So like the people that are like, no, I only believe in what I see. Okay, well, do you want to live longer? Why don't you just start thinking outside of the box? I just, I'm sorry. I just it bothers me because it's just it bothers me because it's so it's so um when I know that there's somebody like, and this is probably shouldn't even put this in your episode, but if I What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Like this is this is an all open channel of discussion.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

If I know somebody doesn't believe in us in their they don't have a spiritual faith, I don't really want to have anything to do with them. Is that bad? I don't know. I just don't, I feel like what kind of a conversation are we gonna even have?

SPEAKER_02 50:19

I think it's I think it's where you are right now. And I think that that's not wrong. And I think that as open-minded as you are, that will evolve. Okay. So you don't mind hanging out with people that don't have um it's not a place that I'm going to put myself in 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Like if I really want to have, like, I mean, to me, I thrive off deep connection. And um, but I think it's also with with that, like I question am I creating a judgment and a limitation on what I think they are possible, like to do? That's a good point. And so it's more of like, and it's like the question I think that you know, Kathy Heller always says all the time is like, I want to be surprised and delighted today by the universe. And, you know, God, spirit, intelligence, invisible intelligence, whatever you want to call it, you know, they say uh it has manifestations being manifestations. And like, who's to say the person that you feel doesn't have a spiritual connection, spirit actually comes through them that day to deliver a message to you?

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

And and are you opening yourself up to that possibility? I guess would just be the question.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

It's true. You know what? I think with grief, I hate small talk. Same. I just okay, maybe, maybe it's beyond grief. Maybe it's just like I think I was pretty good at it before. Like I could I could maintain a conversation with a stranger in a in a very shallow conversation and be fine and not really have anything happen. Like I didn't feel like, but now going through grief and being in this place of understanding myself, I don't have the I don't know. I don't, I feel like the people that I have in my life, I think Jen and I, this is where we shine because we always have deep conversations. I don't we don't even have surface level conversations. Like, um, but you're right. I mean, like the people also standing in a coffee line at a coffee shop, not looking at my phone and making conversation with my neighbor is not always bad. You know, like um, it's not that I I'm I'm against that. It's just that I really prefer those connections where you can sit down and you're just like heart to heart, you know, like you just feel it, you know, it's so um and I think what like I guess what I would maybe challenge you with a little bit, Melissa, would be so now you're experiencing what this like depth, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:24

This exchange of of connection, of of greatness, of radiance can really feel like when you're talking to someone, just like the conversation that we're having right now. We both probably feel really connected to each other, right? And at the same time, like how does it feel when you walk down a street and someone actually gives you eye contact and a smile?

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Oh, amazing. I mean, it's yeah, like those.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

So is that can that also just be like a level of connection that can happen that maybe if it's not happening to you, you could give it. And then maybe that one smile gives somebody permission to be happy that day.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

It's it's true. I think or to receive. I think that um as a recovering people pleaser, I think that line of understanding where I begin and somebody else begins, or where I end and somebody else begins, like was so blurry for so long that I felt responsible for a stranger. That I felt so I guess people please are incodendent. Like I felt, you know, an interaction with somebody um was it like it was gonna be like I just felt like there was too, I was losing too much of myself. And so through the healing of and knowing that I don't have to do that and I can have small talk and not give too much of myself away, or um, they could give me and I could give them, like it could be like this mutual symbiotics moment. So I guess ultimately I am in a place where I can small talk and enjoy interactions, but I think as through going through grief, and like I said, where all of the nerve pain fibers are like right on the surface, and every time somebody touched me, it was like, ah, you know. Um and that goes both ways, good or bad. And the but the bad encounters that I had were so intensified. It almost like it felt like I was sensitive to the world in a way that I can't describe. And so small talk took a lot out of me. Yeah. So I was very selective with who I hung out with, what the mo, you know, there was my safe places, like church was my safe place. Um, some of my friends, some of some, not all my family, you know, like um, so there were a lot, there were there, there was a lot of that trying to understand. And now at four years out, I feel like when I'm touched in a way that's not so great and there's conflict, I'm like, okay. Like the abs the observ observation part of what we were talking about, that was a huge shift for me of just being like, that stung, that hurt. How do let's observe that feeling? Um, so I think that uh it's a preference to have deep conversations, but I can tolerate the sh the um you know the casual conversations as well. Just it's a pro it's such a grief, really throws it in there and makes you start assessing like what you're gonna tolerate and what you can't.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Absolutely. And I and I I love that you're able to articulate that and um honor yourself and respect what you needed and those experiences. And again, as you're you know, talking just like about that grief box again, is your grief is different today than what it was four years ago, right? And so as you keep opening up and evolving, you know, it's like what is that was the identity then, but what you know, what is the identity now? And then even stretching beyond that, like what's the next evolution of it would be again, not that I'm saying enjoy small talk, because again, it's not something that I enjoy. I don't love going to pick up at school and having to have small talk with the mothers. Like I I don't enjoy that, no. But I'm open to the possibility that one day something's gonna change. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Yeah, because and Kathy Heller, I think she we keep on talking to her about her, but she told a story about how she was at dinner and she sat next to somebody, and there was this like crazy interaction where she like knew them, or like those moments are really cool, those like karmic, beautiful moments. You're you're you're like, oh my god, you know, where so and somebody knows somebody, and then like you're connected through another person, and it's just so cool. And the world is um exciting, like to look at those different events. So I hear what you're saying. Like, there's a lot of beauty in interactions with the world and with people. And but if if you're listening and you're grieving, it might be a trigger when they're like, you know, when you're thinking, oh my god, I can't even interact with myself. Little in the world, but you can you'll get there. Every you know, you get there eventually.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

So, um and when you're ready, right? When you're ready to open up the door of the next chapter or the next evolution or the next iteration, whatever it might be. And I think that that's ultimately what's important to honor and to have that self-compassion of like not needing yourself to be anywhere else. Um, but like when you're when you realize when you feel like you've, you know, it's like I think about when I used to like play like Super Mario Brothers back in the day, right? And you have to play the level over and over and over and over until you can get to the fucking flag at the end and go to the next level, right? But like how, and so in the same way, how many times do you need to experience the same thing to decide I've actually outgrown this and I'm ready to go to the next level of life?

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Yeah. Well, that brings me to the next thing I want to talk about and is um dating after after widow, well, while being a widow, after loss. And um when you it's so you saying that just prompted me to think of like this next level. And I have finally come to a place where I because 2026 is my year of joy. That's like my focus is finding joy, finding happiness. And I was listening um to the Kathy Heller call the other day of like, do something that makes you happy in a day. And I'm like, she's like listing off all these things. I'm like, oh my God, I choose me all day. I literally choose joy. I've already been doing it. And I'm like, and I think I there was a blueprint of it. I thought joy and happiness looked like. And I'm gonna keep on choosing that. And it's it's just been wonderful. It's been a great experience of realizing that. Um, so that's where I and I think I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

And I think that there's also with what you're saying too, like there's we'll just use like money for an example. Um, we could use dating too. But um, like when when you join like, you know, abundance or wealth calls or money, you know, manifestation calls and things like this, and they're like, what are you calling in? And you know, people are like, a hundred million dollars. And like, okay, great that you're claiming that, but what actually can your nervous system tolerate right now at the level that it's at? And same thing with dating, right? Like, you had to kind of get to this place to where joy feels really good, self-love for yourself, like choosing all of these things, honoring what you need, feel really good. And like that had to happen first before you could even think about dating and like call in somebody else. Because if you would have done it before that, your nervous system wouldn't have been calibrated to invite the version of the person that you actually need to come into your life. And so I think it's, and this is like goes back to like the unwrapping of the candy bar of life. It was like the part of life that you were just in right now is that choosing you, choosing joy, choosing self-love and all of these things. And maybe you're ready to go to that next level of life and unwrap the candy bar into dating, right? But if you hadn't calibrated yourself to that level, you wouldn't have been able to receive it in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

It's so it's absolutely true. Uh wild self-acceptance has thrusted me into having ex higher self-esteem. And um, yeah, I'm it's that's it. I don't have anything to say about it, but that is and and and well, I I do I think that um I was a person that thought that we all always had to be partnered up, we always had to have um like a certain life, right? Whether it was money, a part family, all the stuff, like what this typical what was success, right? Like what we used to call success. And you're absolutely right. Yes. And um it's it's so true of what can my nervous system handle. And right now, you're right. It's it is just feeling joy with my life and my freedom and my son, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Yeah, amazing. I love it. Okay, well, so to wrap us up, because we, you know, again talked about all the fucking things, but obviously um grief being a big thing, if you were to have a megaphone and every household that has experienced grief to the level that you have experienced, what would you say to bring them hope and to open themselves up to like that higher version of possibility?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Oh god, there's so many things going through my head. That is such a beautiful question. I think that what I needed somebody to say to me, I'll just say that, um, is that stillness is don't be afraid of stillness, don't be afraid of quiet. That is where you will learn the most about yourself, the most about what you need in your life. And that's it. I just I think we talked about observing your feelings and the and the moments that you can observe the best are the quietest and the stillest, the stillest. That's that's all I could say. I mean, I I there's nobody in this world that can take your pain away. There's not a practitioner, there's not a friend, there's not a anybody in this world that can bring that person back, remove the pain from the it's it's a it's a physical pain at times, honestly. I mean but you have to be able to feel it. And I thought I was broken because I could I couldn't cry. I still really struggle with crying, but that doesn't like it grief can look differently on everybody. So I don't cry, but I do other things and I can tap into those feelings in other ways, and you're not broken. Because you don't you think you're do you're supposed to be doing it a certain way. So I would say be as still as you can and listen to your heart and your feelings. And don't listen to the people around you sometimes because they're full of shit and they don't know what they're talking about. And they just most of the time they just don't want you to feel pain. And so they say things like, Oh, you'll get you know, you'll move on, or you'll you'll find somebody new or whatever. So listen to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Mic drop. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. I want to also share because it'll be out there by the time this is out, that I am moving to Florida and I I know I live in Michigan and I am joining my best friend, Dr. Jen Octors Practice. We're gonna be working side by side together. We're developing a program called Reclaim for Women.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

But you're gonna need a hypnotherapist for too, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

That we're going to need a hypnotherapist for, yes. It is all-encompassing. It is a beautiful program, and we've been developing it for honestly years, probably with our conversations, her and I, but now we're actually like putting it out there to the universe. And so I am I can't, I'm so excited to work with my best friend. Like, how lucky am I? I love that for you. Oh, yeah. For both of you. I'm so excited. So that we're I'm I'm moving in June. I'm joining her practice in June, and more to come. Hello, sunny weather. Oh my God. It is, it is oh, you don't even want to see out there. It is gray. I mean, the snow can be pretty, but like, no, done. Next.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

I love this for you. I'm so excited. I feel like this is such a pivotal, like, portal for you guys in life, in business, and friendship, and so many things. And I'm just so excited for you guys. And I just I feel like it was truly divine timing that you guys showed up in my life and just the connection that it's just so easy to be with you guys, and I love what you're doing. And um, yeah, so obviously we'll leave all the details in our show notes of how people can get a hold of you. Um, what is your um like where do you hang out most that people want to just come send you a message or see what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Um, I mean Instagram. We can put the handle because I don't even remember what I think it's Dr. Melissa Weiss, but I don't even know. I um yeah, Instagram is usually where I hang, but I also do Facebook. Jen and I need to get on TikTok. Oh this is the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

I can't, it feels like like lethargic for me to see women do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

So weird. I know, and I even told Jen, I'm like, do you know it's a different kind of format of video? Like it's not our like I don't even know if I'm doing the format now for Facebook and Instagram correctly now. I don't care because I'm that's fine. But just to add another thing in, I'm like, oh Jen, why God? But she, we're gonna be doing it. We'll be out there on tick ticky talkie. We'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Well, well, let me know how that goes so you can teach me how to get my life together.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

Okay. All right. Well, I love you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

Yes. Okay, we'll see everybody next episode. Everything you need to know will be in the show notes, and we love you all so much. If this episode felt like it was speaking directly to you, share it with another woman who might need to hear this too. And please leave a rating and a review. This helps boost the podcast so women just like you can find it and find real-time support and believe. Stay tuned for more episodes with stories, tools, and real hope. Because you're more than just the identity of a woman who has anxiety. And when you begin to heal your relationship with anxiety, you're not just changing your life. You're changing what gets passed down to your daughters, your granddaughters, and the women who come after you. You are not alone. And this is where we get to take