The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast

Episode 020: Enhancing Midlife Well-Being through the Enneagram

• April Haberman and Kim Hart • Season 1 • Episode 19

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Discover how the Enneagram can be a transformative tool for women navigating midlife on this episode of the MiDOViA Menopause Podcast. Join us as we sit down with Leah Lee, a certified Enneagram coach, who shares her inspiring journey from skepticism to a passion that changed her career and life. Leah unpacks the basics of the Enneagram, revealing how its nine distinctive personality types can enhance self-awareness and relationships. From her initial doubts to embracing the Enneagram during her midlife crisis, Leah's story is both relatable and enlightening.

We delve into the traits and core motivations of Type One (the Perfectionist) and Type Nine (the Peacemaker), examining how they cope with midlife challenges like brain fog, irritability, and fatigue. Leah’s personal anecdotes and professional insights highlight the dynamic nature of the Enneagram, showing its potential to foster greater understanding and compassion in times of stress and health. Whether you're curious about self-discovery, seeking ways to improve relationships, or looking for support during menopause, this episode offers valuable takeaways and a sneak peek into Leah’s upcoming resources, including assessments and an engaging video series. Don't miss out on learning how to navigate midlife with greater ease and empathy!

Leah Lee is a Certified Enneagram Coach whose truest passion is participating in meaningful conversations that enrich individuals lives and their relationships around them. Her decision to be a coach was inspired when she came across the Enneagram personality system that helped bring clarity to difficulty as she was entering her mid-life years. She's blessed to be married to her high school sweetheart, raising 2 incredible teenagers and their goofy chocolate lab. She's currently working on creating a video series to guide people through personal work with the Enneagram. Leah provides individual, couples and team coaching as well as in person workshops.

www.leahleecoaching.com

LINKS:
Website: https://www.midovia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymidovia
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/midovia
Email Us: info@midovia.com

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your trusted source for evidence-based, science-backed information related to menopause. Medovia is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness and supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit medoviacom to learn more home and in the workplace. Visit Medoviacom to learn more. I'm one of your hosts, april Haberman, and I'm joined by Kim Hart. We're co-founders of Medovia, certified health coaches, registered yoga teachers and midlife mamas specializing in menopause. You're listening to another episode of our podcast, where we offer expert guidance for the most transformative stage of life, bringing you real conversations, education and resources to help you overcome challenges and reach your full potential through midlife. Join us and our special guests each episode as we bring vibrant, fun and truthful conversation and let us help you have a deeper understanding of menopause. Hey friends, I'm excited to share a significant milestone that you may have heard mentioned Medovia has launched the first ever menopause friendly US accreditation program. This program sets a comprehensive standard overseen by a third-party panel of experts, ensuring air quotes here that menopause friendly is more than just a term. It reflects a real commitment to meaningful, sustainable workplace changes. It's important to us that the menopause Friendly logo is meaningful and marks a high standard within the menopause space. We hope you'll join us on the journey to becoming menopause friendly as a leading pioneer in the States. You can find more information at menopausefriendlyuscom.

Speaker 1:

Hi everyone. Today we have Leah Lee on our show. Leah is a certified Enneagram coach whose truest passion is participating in meaningful conversations that enrich individuals' lives and their relationships around them. Her decision to be a coach was inspired when she came across the Enneagram personality system that helped bring clarity to difficulty as she was entering her midlife years. She's blessed to be married to her high school sweetheart, raising two incredible teenagers I can attest to that and their goofy chocolate lab. She's currently working on creating a video series to guide people through personal work with the Enneagram. Leah provides individual couples and team coaching, as well as in-person workshops. Join us today on the show as we really unpack the Enneagram and find out what aha moments we had ourselves. Take a listen. We can't wait to have this conversation with Leah Leah. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Speaker 2:

I am so excited. Talking about the Enneagram is my favorite thing, so I'm so excited to being with us today. I am so excited. Talking about the Enneagram is my favorite thing, so I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we're excited to dive in. You know, you and I have known each other for a very long time. I was thinking about this this morning like, oh my goodness. I think over 15, 16 years we've known each other, but you just recently changed your career entirely. You've dug deep into the Enneagram and I know that our audience is going to be excited to hear more about that today and especially how it can help women in midlife. I am familiar with Enneagram Kim is. We know our Enneagram types. I've studied it, but for our audience they might not be as familiar with that. So for our listeners, can you start off by explaining what the Enneagram is?

Speaker 2:

Yes, the Enneagram is a personality system that's made up of nine distinctive types of people, and these types of people they're labeled or numbered, represented by the numbers one through nine, and they are made up of these unique core motivations that drive people behind the why they think, feel and behave the way that they do.

Speaker 1:

How'd you find it? Tell us your story a little bit. So now we know what Enneagram is. You change careers, as I just mentioned before. How did you come upon the Enneagram? How did you find it? Tell us a little bit about your story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's. It's amazing because it fits right into what you guys are talking about with midlife is like, yeah, midlife, midlife crisis, it really is a real thing. You know, identity. Like, oh my goodness, what am I doing with my life? Sure, I'll start a career.

Speaker 2:

I'm definitely someone who's always liked personality tests, who's been fascinated with people. Um, and a friend of mine told me about a book and it's called the road back to you. Um, and about the Enneagram. I was like what the heck is that? That sounds really weird. Like what is that? So, you know, my interest was very peaked. Um, I was in a pretty desperate time of my life, searching for who I was, and so, you know, I thought, okay, I'm going to do a little bit of research on my own. Usually, I'm someone who, like, talks with everyone else about it. I wanted to share this new thing with my husband. I was like he poops on everything. I wanted to share this new thing with my husband. I was like he poops on everything. So I'm just, I'm just going to figure it out for myself for a little bit. I'm not a big reader.

Speaker 2:

So, this was like a big, big like task for me, and so I first chose to find some YouTube videos and do a quick like okay, what is this? And there weren't many out there at that time and I found a couple by Richard Rohr. He was teaching, doing some yeah like lectures about it, and it was, uh, you know, I still was skeptical. But when it got to a certain type, it just like hit me in this kind of creepy way where it was like how does he?

Speaker 3:

know me, oh my word.

Speaker 2:

So so that hooked me, and then I continued listening. I listened to the book and was just obsessed. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And you turned that in a career. How, how did how did that turn go?

Speaker 2:

Yeah it. It became very impactful, like I was saying, you know, during that season of my life I I'm someone who's been a very much go-getter dreams, you know, do what you want to do, like and I've been really, really supported by my husband to be able to do that. I was a stay at home mom and got to do that, but it kind of stifled my creativity and my drive and so I thought, okay, well, we need to sell our condo, so I'll get my real estate license and do it myself. Why not? Yeah, and people like me, so they'll you know, they'll pick me um to, you know, really work hard to sell their house. Um, it didn't go as I planned.

Speaker 2:

So, um, a lot, a lot of struggle for a long time and I actually fell into a depression. I was very, very anxious and I had a recent diagnosis of ADHD, so I was not managing that a hot, hot mess. And so trying to do all these like self-help you know, these five things you know in the morning are going to change the rest of your day and you're just going to get all of this stuff done and I could not get it together. And so then, hearing this, this type, I'm a type three, um, whose biggest fear is failure, whose biggest emotion is shame, whose biggest weakness and struggle is deceit, which was like what I'm very honest about who I am, but I'm not like that cut me to the core.

Speaker 2:

So I, you know, I, for the first time, was like able to put all these pieces together and be there and just be like I see myself and I can give myself grace, no-transcript. My husband was like watching those videos. He's like that is so you. I thought, yeah, but I didn't need him to tell me that's kind of how I've always lived, was like he was affirming me that's the other thing that's very important to a type three was all these affirmations you perform to get recognition and that kind of stuff was so gross to me to hear. But when it started, you know, those behavioral things started coming to this motivation of like what drives me. It made sense and I was able to rest in that and know how to move forward. It got me unstuck. So, um, that's amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is, and congratulations, bravo, for sure.

Speaker 2:

It's a lot of work, it's hard.

Speaker 1:

Being a person's tough, right, yeah, but you know what I love about that story, leah, and I'll call it a story, but your life journey is that finding the Enneagram for you was a healing journey. Yeah, and you took that and turned it into something beautiful to help other people right On their journey, and I think that purpose is, um, what motivates us. Right, and I'm kind of putting words in your mouth right now, but I assume, yes, thank you Right Um why you get up every day and you do right, Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, yes, absolutely. I, like I said earlier, I'm someone who shares and I, when I find something that has changed my life you know whether it's a product that I'm like, obsessed with, or whatever but this is like this ties everything in my life together to be able to have that purpose. For you know, look, there really is hope, there really is this tool that can help ground you and give you something to heal through.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, you know, one of the next questions that we were going to ask you is like why would the Enneagram be helpful for a woman in midlife? But I mean, I think that you just talked about the difference that it made for you. Any other thoughts around why this is a great tool right now? And I mean, I think finding your passion is really a place that we see women struggling like what's my passion and purpose, which you did, but how does the Enneagram help you right now in this, in this place of change, and in your life's journey?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's. You know, I think I've found a lot of people relate to my story because there's just from, you know, a season of life of just go, go, go, go go, and you're just doing and you're just living. There's something that shakes you right, that like shakes us to the core and kind of makes you aware of, oh, you know, like, um, I'm not where I thought I would be, I, my marriage isn't new anymore, or I thought I would be married by now, or, you know, like, the kids don't need me as much, you know. So there are these things, these markers that end up happening and and so it feels like you're exhausted, you're, you know, in chaos of internally.

Speaker 2:

Really, it's um, and so having something that grounds you, um, that you can be honest with and, uh, be real through, um, you know, we, we've looked to self-care a lot and and I agree with a lot of what you know we've been able to talk about with self-care but it sometimes keeps us or makes us strive for more, and those fixes don't really fix it, you know. And so the pendulum can swing really far the other way, not thinking about yourself to really thinking about yourself, and so we're trying to find that I don't know. I don't like balance either, because life isn't really naturally balanced, but just again that like inner cut to the core, right, that foundation, and so I think a lot of women you know, as we see with menopause, like everyone's timing is different, symptoms are different, you know, triggers are different. So but finding, discovering your passion, learning how to create boundaries, and is just helping to live more freely.

Speaker 1:

I love that phrase that you used. It shakes you to the core because I do feel like women in midlife feel that way. Right, I mean, everything that we knew in our younger years is different now, and there are certain things that do shake us to the core, one of them being menopause symptoms. Some women experience menopause symptoms in a more heightened way, some breeze through it, but for those that are experiencing menopause in a more conflicting way I guess difficult way let's talk about that a little bit, because menopause brings on emotional, psychological challenges and I'm wondering how these challenges vary based on different Enneagram types. Just kind of bringing it back to Enneagram, can you kind of give us an example here?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure, it's a great question and I love that. You know like I can give examples and this is just like brief examples. So, again, talking about each Enneagram type has core motivations and really knowing those core motivations can help us see or become aware of what activates us. It can then help us anticipate those moments and then be able to articulate, you know what we're experiencing and, and so I'll give an example. Let's say, and again like you were saying, like we're familiar with the Enneagram, so I'll try and keep it as like you know basic as possible, but know basic as possible, but so one through nine and give it an example of a type one who is me, for everyone that's listening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sweet, you will never guess when she describes it that it's April.

Speaker 2:

Okay, keep going. Yeah, and that's the other thing. You guys, it's like this is super vulnerable.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people don't like the Enneagram because it exposes them and some people are more freed because of that. But there are there are specific types that definitely do not want to have this awareness or people to know, because it is very exposing and so okay. So a type one is sometimes called the perfectionist. That can have kind of a negative connotation to it, so I like to call it a reformer, and they strive for improvement, improvement in everything. They always want to get back to the original, the best form of everything, and so they want to be seen as good, right to have order and system, and in their heads there is a perfect way that this can be done. So, but they also want to avoid being seen as incorrect or inappropriate and they believe this lie, that it's not okay to make mistakes, and so they maintain this high order with no room for error.

Speaker 2:

A type nine, which is right next to a type one on the Enneagram diagram, which I'm not going to go into, but it's totally okay and it's just part of how how things move. A type nine is sometimes called the peacemaker. I like to keep say the peacekeeper. So they're always striving for harmony. They want to be seen as a good listener, as kind, nonjudgmental. They're very chill, laid back, easygoing, go with the flow. They avoid being seen as disruptive and they do not at all costs want to rock the boat. And they do not at all cost want to rock the boat. So they've believed this lie that it's not okay to assert yourself, and so they keep their opinions and thoughts to themselves, even if you know, even if they have like, if they're chill, right. So that's why they maintain their chill.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so they have some differences, but they also have some similarities. This one and nine and so, the more you learn about the Enneagram, there's other like subcategories with groupings of three and how they initially engage the world, and so a one and a nine is in this grouping called the gut triad, where they're instinctive, like their gut instinct is just their first initial way that they engage the world, and how they process and, you know, respond to the world and this. They have a common emotion of anger, but they also have a common desire of justice and and so. But each of these show up differently in all three Um. And so, in health and stress, um, they will take on different characteristics of different types. So they may move to, uh, an unhealthy type, um, or characteristics or characteristics of another type, and then again, in health, the healthy side of a different type Am I? Yeah, it's good, it's good. Oh man, I want to go deeper, I totally want to go deeper on all of it.

Speaker 1:

I'm like and keep going you know what Leah question came up for me on I like and keep going.

Speaker 3:

Um, you know what Leah question came up for me on I I like. I told you that I was a seven before we got into this call and I'm like a little embarrassed that I'm a seven Like our people are, and maybe that's what sevens do, but I always want to be the other numbers you know, I always think like oh, why can't I be more detail oriented and drive like April, you know? Do people is that? Is that just a seven, or is that generally how people look at a?

Speaker 2:

miniogram. It's so good. I will speak specific to your type, kate. What you're saying is so like classic because and interesting Everyone wants to be a seven, because they're the enthusiasts, they're the optimists, they're the ones that are the life of the party, they're the ones that are going and like trying new things, and so it's very interesting that you say that, but also it makes sense, because you don't want to miss out on anything. You want to have a bit and piece to everyone and everything. So totally makes sense. Now, what I was talking about with how we can move to different numbers actually a one in seven do correlate with each other and they do, so there are some similarities between that.

Speaker 1:

I can see that, huh Kim yeah totally it's funny.

Speaker 3:

It's funny. Last night something happened. My husband got mad and then he was like and it was something stupid. He's like I know I shouldn't be mad on this and you're going to tell me why. It's a good thing, aren't you?

Speaker 1:

be mad on this and you're going to tell me why it's a good thing, aren't you?

Speaker 2:

I'm like no, of course, I am over lining.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, I'll just let you be with where you are, Cause I'm the one that I was always like. Well, at least it's not this right. At least you didn't die today.

Speaker 1:

You know, whatever I think it's interesting though.

Speaker 1:

Um, it's been a while since I studied the Enneagram and I really haven't marinated in it for lack of a better way of saying that recently. So in prep for the podcast, I had to go back and look at what does one say and what's my wing, and I need to understand this. But as we're unpacking it here in this conversation, it occurred to me that the Enneagram is so useful in with relationships, right, so a we can understand ourselves better. And when we do move into that stressful situation maybe it's midlife, maybe it's another stage of life we understand our go-to, right, what's our default Good, bad, no judgment here we just know it so we can understand it, we can give ourselves grace, all the things that you said earlier in the podcast.

Speaker 1:

But it also can help us in those relationships with other people and communication and how that differs, especially going into different stages of life. But it can also help us in relationships in our careers as well, right. So not just personal relationships, but in our careers as well, as women are navigating that, maybe, and changing careers. So it really can be useful in so many different situations that I think that is the beauty of the Enneagram, frankly, that you know every person, whatever stage you're in, whatever you need it for whether it's yourself, someone else, relationships it can be really useful.

Speaker 2:

Whatever you need it for, whether it's yourself, someone else, relationships, it can be really useful Absolutely. Very well said. Very well said. Yeah, it transcends, like every aspect. Some people even in their faith it really can transcend into that. And so, yeah, do you guys want to kind of hear the difference of how a nine and a one?

Speaker 1:

might look at experiencing. Yes, let's do it Keep going.

Speaker 2:

A type one they they might have a stronger reaction to like a memory fog than a type nine will. So and this can, because this can create an opportunity for mistake for a type nine or one, you know, a type nine might have a stronger reaction to irritability or mood swings because they don't feel at peace, and so this can create an opportunity for them them to blow up, to have, you know, to assert themselves, which is what they're totally avoiding.

Speaker 2:

um, a type one they can be very frustrated with fatigue because they can't get the things done that they want to get done but a type nine might be like you know I'm, I am okay, like so okay with just being comfortable and having alone time and, you know, chilling on the couch of understanding. Not only your type but different types can really give us patience and compassion and care that we all want to give. But when we have an understanding and this like understanding and this like unspoken thing that it's just, it's so much more beautiful and really can help the healing process.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I just think that's fascinating. That's an awesome example. It is, and I'm like. I never thought about brain fog affecting a one and a nine in different ways, but of course it would right. Gosh, a light bulb literally just went on for me. I like I'm so glad we're having this conversation. It's fascinating, so yeah, there's.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot more. I'm sure you can take every single one of those symptoms.

Speaker 1:

Right and go. Okay, this is what it might look like for every single Enneagram type, which we don't have time to do that today, but our listeners can get ahold of you if they are interested.

Speaker 3:

Where should they start, though? Where do people that don't know about this or want to do know and want to go deeper? How do they learn more and where should they start?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course I am dying to help anyone. I do have a website I think you guys will put a link to in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we will, but call it out, what is it?

Speaker 2:

It's leahleecoachingcom, coachingcom, and Leah is L E A H, yep, l E A H L E E coaching, and I've tried to put a few resources up there, for I've created a couple, you know, pdfs that people can download specific to their type. But, you know, not everyone can have as clear of a like. Oh, you know, as I did with like, yeah, that that speaks very clearly to me, and so, you know, I think I would love to help with that. There are assessments. There are there are lots of assessments out there. There are lots of assessments out there, a couple that are free or they take, you know, a good 30 minutes, which it's a great place to start.

Speaker 2:

I think I can give you a link. I'm working on my own. Yeah, I think I'm working through it, but we're close. So my hope is that I'm absolutely providing that for free, because that is just, like you know, my gift of like. Let's guide you to quickly get to that. But some people just need clarification and so, and talking through it with someone, with a professional like me, I can help ask the right questions to get to that quicker. You know, even for you, april, it was like, oh, I didn't even think about that. So to have someone that has like this is what I do. I'm able to help you get there quicker. So you know, I've also put some books on there, some podcasts, youtube videos, just to be able to have that go-to place to direct.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 3:

Is there any places I think go ahead April, oh, go ahead. Okay. Are there any places that are, you know any in ground-based support groups for midlife, any places that people in the in this space can go to be with other, either like sevens or although that would be crazy, but is there a support that people can get based on Engram?

Speaker 2:

You know, not specific to menopause, but I think that is like a massive, massive need.

Speaker 1:

So what's your next thing, Leah?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you're welcome. We just gave you your next business idea.

Speaker 2:

I love it. I'll take it. Hey, I'm always trying to be prepared. I don't think I'm experiencing any menopause symptoms yet and you know you guys have been a tremendous resource for me. I've already shared you with so many people, and to have a heads up prior to being in the middle of it has been such a gift, and it's really inspired me to actually start conversation with my mom. You know, my best friend lost her mom just recently, and so she now doesn't get that opportunity to have that conversation, and so, um, thank you for all that you're doing, and I I'm so, so, so thrilled to be able to tie these together.

Speaker 2:

Me too, and so we will have to be working on this.

Speaker 1:

We, yeah, let's do it. We're going to keep working on it. For sure, for sure, I'm always up for suggestions.

Speaker 2:

You know, because there are so many opportunities, it's really hard for me to like, pick and choose what to be focused towards. So right now I'm actually currently creating video series to be able to have access at any time for anyone. Just a basic, you know, one-on-one Enneagram and then how to find your type, and then you know some other stuff in that to be able to, you know, again, have that like go-to resource for for people to get started, and I'm I am so thrilled, anytime an opportunity like this to come up and like, yes, let's do a support group here. Yes, let's, I would love to be a part of it. Yeah, All right.

Speaker 1:

Well, Leah, is there anything else that you would like our audience to take away from this conversation today that we haven't talked about?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, I, as passionate as I am, as as much as I believe in this tool, it is not an end-all, it is not a solve-all magic answer, but it can be that non-judgmental friend that is ready to guide you into a deeper understanding of the complexity of who we are, and so for me to be able to, to present this and share it to more people. You know, now we're not alone. We should not be doing this alone, as you know, and so that that's just kind of my like. This is not an end, all taking the ground.

Speaker 3:

yeah, let's take advantage of this tool yeah, well, thank you for your knowledge and your wisdom and your sharing it was. I think this is a fun podcast to just be able to think a little bit outside the box. So we're going to rapid fire. Are you ready? Yeah, fun part this is our favorite part. Okay, pizza or salad pizza you're my gal.

Speaker 1:

How about uh candlelight dinner or a burger joint?

Speaker 2:

a burger joint, yeah, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:

How about a hike in the woods or a walk on the beach?

Speaker 2:

Walk on the beach, I know you're going to say that one.

Speaker 1:

We like the water too. Um, and then we ask everyone on the show this last question what is the best piece of advice that you have ever received, or maybe given someone?

Speaker 2:

of advice that you have ever received or maybe given someone. Oh boy, I think. For me and since we're talking about the Enneagram, this little kind of affirmation for a type three specific has just been my go-to, and it's I'm loved and valued for who I am, not what I do. And so with that I I'm tying in um something my kiddos and I figured out and learned in some time of stress of you know, getting things done and do your best, but what, at what point is your best? So it's do your best with what you have and in the time that you have, to do it.

Speaker 1:

Love it. That's actually two great pieces of advice. Both of those, and I especially love the first one. It's not. It's not my do, it's my who that matters.

Speaker 2:

That's good yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Well, leah, thank you so much for being with us today. It's been a fun conversation. I'm sure that we're all going to dig into our Enneagram books now a little bit more, because now I have to study on seven, kim, so I know how to work even better. Thank you and listeners, that's a wrap. Until we meet again, go find joy in the journey. Thank you for listening to the Medovia Menopause Podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please give it a thumbs up, subscribe for future episodes, leave a review and share this episode with a friend. There are more than 50 million women in the US who are navigating the menopause transition. The situation is compounded by the presence of stigma, shame and secrecy surrounding menopause, posing significant challenges and disruptions in women's personal and professional spheres. Medovia is out to change the narrative. Learn more at medoviacom. That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.

People on this episode

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April Haberman

Co-host
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Kim Hart

Co-host