The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast
Welcome to The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast! Your trusted source for evidence-based, science-backed information related to menopause.
MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness and supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
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The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast
Episode 033: The Power of Culture: Transforming Organizational Success (Business Edition)
What if the very culture you're immersed in is shaping your organization's success more than any strategy or business plan? Join us as we unpack this intriguing notion with Laura Hamill, an eminent organizational psychologist and author of "The Power of Culture." Drawing upon her extensive experience at Microsoft and as a founder of a thriving software company, Laura helps us explore the invisible yet powerful force of workplace culture. We dissect the nuanced difference between culture and climate, and why leaders must intentionally craft an organizational culture that synchronizes with strategic goals to bridge the often-overlooked gap between strategy and organizational ethos.
As we navigate through the challenges of fostering cultural change, particularly concerning flexible work environments and menopause support, Laura shares candid personal stories that illuminate the critical role of senior leadership in fostering a supportive workplace. We examine the concept of "cultural betrayal" and how the misalignment between promised and actual experiences can lead to detrimental outcomes. This episode challenges leaders to scrutinize and evolve workplace programs, urging a transformation towards a culture where employee well-being is prioritized, and everyone feels safe to express their authentic selves.
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/laurahamill
"The Power of Culture” Buy now on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Culture-Economist-Edge-Book/dp/1639367284
LINKS:
Website: https://www.midovia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymidovia
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/midovia
Email Us: info@midovia.com
MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
The information, including but not limited to, text, graphics, images & other material contained on this website are for informational purposes only. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast Business Edition, your trusted source for insights on menopause and midlife in the workplace. Each episode features meaningful conversations with inspiring guests. Tune in and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, Welcome to the show today. I'm excited to host Laura Hamill. Laura and I worked together at Microsoft years ago and she just wrote a book called the Power of Culture, which is inspiring for those that want to create a great culture in the organizations that they work. Welcome, Laura, it's nice to see you.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to talk with you.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. So tell us a little bit about who you are, your background and why you wrote this book.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I am a mom and a wife. I like to like try to teach myself, to start with that right, like I'm something besides my work.
Speaker 3:So I live in the Seattle area, live in Woodinville, washington, and I am also an organizational psychologist, so a psychologist applied to work, and I've had some really cool work experiences. I worked at Microsoft for a long time. I helped start a software company called Limeade. I also have run my own consulting practice for a long time and right now in the last kind of iteration of my consulting practice, I've been focused on organizational culture and how do you really get intentional about it, how do you understand it, and that's why I wrote this book. So I wrote a book called the Power of Culture and it's really the reason why I wanted to write it.
Speaker 3:There's a couple different reasons. One of them is all the different things I've done in my career. I've been done, really had culture at the heart. Right, if I really wanted to change something, improve something, we had to understand culture, and so that was one of the reasons why because it's so important I also have had these roles in these different you know, these multiple decades that I've been working. I've had roles as being the head of research or science groups where I've studied culture from more of an academic perspective, but then I also have had roles where I was the head of HR, so the chief people officer, and then trying to think about it from a practical perspective, like how does this really go down? And there's such a gap between, like, what research and science says you're supposed to do when it comes to culture and then what actually happens, and so that was another reason I wanted to try to like bridge that gap a little bit.
Speaker 2:Love it. So when you talk about organization, organizational culture, how do you define it and why is it important in today's environment?
Speaker 3:So I'd like to use science to define it. It's the underlying values and norms and beliefs of an organization and if you think about an iceberg, it's the stuff that's down deep, the stuff that's really hard. It's not the stuff on the surface, it's all the whys, whys, whys that go underneath that. So if you happen to see something at work, you know on the surface so let's say you walked into a new office that you maybe hadn't been to before and you look on the surface and it looks like everybody's super busy, just running around busy. That is not culture. That actually is climate. That's kind of what the temperature feels like. Right, when you are trying to understand culture, you have to start asking why? So why does it feel that way? So why does it feel busy? So it could feel busy because there's just a lot of exciting innovations going on and there's a lot of really cool stuff happening. That could be a really good reason why it feels busy. It also could feel busy because it's disjointed and people are disconnected and they're trying to figure things out. So that's a very different reason why it could be busy. It also could be feeling busy because just acting like you're busy and having activity is valued in the organization versus really doing things that are meaningfully important, right? So there's a lot of different reasons why it could feel busy, and so when we're understanding culture, we have to dig in, we have to dig really deep to try to understand that.
Speaker 3:And so what's tricky and I think, also super interesting about culture is that once you've become part of it, you can't even really see it anymore. And so the idea you've probably heard the analogy of you know, does a goldfish even know it's swimming in water? So it's like culture being the water that we swim in. It's so natural to us, it's so easy and obvious around what's around us that we don't even see it anymore. So I think that's one of the biggest reasons why culture can be so hard is you don't even see your water. So why is it so important? So you can think about all of us working or having worked before we know.
Speaker 3:The obvious reason why it's important is that it affects our experience, right, it affects how we feel about work. So that's a big deal From an employee's perspective. It really does influence the employee experience. But if you think about it from kind of an organizational perspective or a leader's perspective, you're going to have a culture right. You have a culture and what oftentimes leaders don't understand is that that culture actually might not be helping the organization achieve its goals. It might actually be working against some of the things that you're trying to achieve. In fact, I see that over and over again a real disconnect between business strategy and the actual culture, and a lot of times it's really like blatant, like big time disconnect between culture and what you're trying to achieve Interesting.
Speaker 1:Why is it? Well, I was just going to ask on that same note, then why is it essential for organizations to proactively shape their culture? Otherwise it's going to organically happen, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I'm thinking about your- latter point that you just made.
Speaker 1:I'll let you answer that, but I think you answered it a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's exactly right. So this is the stuff that I've been fascinated by is when I start to work with organizations and I see that disconnect. I'll just give you a real example and like a very obvious one. So I was working with a large insurance company and they had this big strategic shift and they were going to work on some pretty innovative, pretty market changing different strategies, which you know innovation and insurance doesn't usually go hand in hand. You know you don't think of those together, but they were doing some pretty cool things or trying to write. That was their plan, that was their strategy. They knew kind of intellectually that their culture needed to be aligned with that. But so they hired me. They hired me to come in and help them really get more intentional about their culture.
Speaker 3:I walked in on the very first day and I was meeting with the leadership team and I was just kind of shocked by what I saw in front of me. It was this big long table and a bunch of leaders were around that table. It was the whole leadership team. At the end was the CEO and the COO and they were whispering to each other and everybody else was as still as they possibly could be and like they were not moving. It was so fascinating you could just cut the tension with a knife and I immediately said to myself uh-oh, right, like there's so much fear in this system. You can see it right here in this interaction that the leaders are afraid to talk. The leaders are afraid of this, and you could tell the CEO and COO were the ones they were afraid of.
Speaker 3:And so how in the world would you ever expect that employees would be able to be coming up with their best ideas, voicing new opinions, pushing on new innovation, if people are scared? And so that's the kind of stuff that I see over and over again is what's been kind of built and created and reinforced in the culture is not going to line up with. Think is the primary reasons why organizations should care about this is you have to know what's really happening, what's really being enforced and reinforced in the culture. Um, if and to see, is this helping us? Is it helping us move forward? Is it helping us achieve the things we're trying to achieve, or is it holding us back? Um, and a lot of times it's holding back, holding us back in like pretty big ways. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now you in the book you were talking about, you can't, and I'm holding my Kindle because that's how I read it. The culture is a surf it. Culture won't work if it's on the surface or a tick box initiative. Yeah, and some, some companies try and shortcut the culture work. It sounds like you walked into that situation and you're like oh man, we have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 3:Completely, completely, and that's all I mean. There's a whole long story behind that. I worked with them for a few years. But it's classic. And what I see now is lots of organizations understand that they need to focus on culture, but the way they do it is they'll just start with some values, maybe spend some time with a consultant, you know, like me, and you know have, you know, a leadership conversation and let's just let's agree on our values and then they're. They plop them on their website, put them on, you know, big stickers behind the receptionist and then they're done. And that's what I'm trying to kind of push on is, if you do that work with the leadership team, that's just the very beginning, that's just the start. Then you actually have to do the heavy lifting of making it real. You have to make it consistently experienced by people and that's not by, you know, doing fun parties and having all hands events and handing out swag. You know this is by the hard work of changing behavior and changing practices and changing systems, and that takes a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you're definitely preaching to the choir here, I'm sure, Kim. I'm thinking about our menopause friendly worship and accreditation. You know we introduced that here in the US so that menopause friendly isn't just a tick box or, you know, a badge that you put behind the receptionist desk or on your website, because it's really that long term, sustainable cultural shift that has to happen and you know, on that note I'm now. You've got me thinking about menopause, because that's the space that we sit in. Yes, every day, right With that culture change. I'm wondering if you can share with us some practical ways, maybe in thinking about the menopause space, that organizations can design policies and practices, like the flexible working environment, for example, so that we can ensure inclusivity for those that are going through menopause. If you were to walk into an organization and do what you did with the insurance company, what might you say to an organization that is trying?
Speaker 3:to create that. Yeah, I love that, and I think that this is what I was kind of saying at the very beginning. Of all the work that I've done in my career, I've realized, like gosh, you could do all the best design of these really great programs and approaches, and if the culture is working against it, it's going to be really hard for anything as important as this the menopause work to really be lived, to really be accepted, and so I'll just give a really quick what I think is an example that's similar. So I was working with a company and we had done an employee survey and there was a great head of HR and this was before COVID but basically the results were the employees wanted flexible work right, they wanted to be able to have flexible work arrangements. And so the head of HR was super excited and she worked with her team and developed this whole really beautiful plan for how that was gonna work, how managers were gonna support it. Super excited, and she worked with her team and developed this whole really beautiful plan for how that was going to work, how managers were going to support it.
Speaker 3:I mean, it was as well done as you can imagine in the design of this approach and she walled it out and then looked I don't know if it was like four months or five months later and she saw that there were only a few people who had taken advantage of the program. And she was so bummed because it was like a huge, like a huge number of people on the employee survey who had said this was a problem, an issue. And so then somebody said to her well, you know why that is right, please tell me. And she said the person said well, it's because the CEO does the five o'clock walk. And she's like what she didn't know. I think she was in a different location than the CEO.
Speaker 3:The CEO, every day at five o'clock would go and see who was in the office and took a mental note and something as simple as that that you really wouldn't think really would have that much of an impact. Everybody knew that that's wonderful that we have this flexible work, but we know it's really valued. It's butts in seats, it's it's yeah, exactly, and so that's always my worry and concern. So people who are interested in really doing work around topics like menopause, I would say you have to dig in and see which aspects of the culture might be holding this work back. One of them, the most basic, is do we actually really fundamentally value human beings? You know could be a place to start and sadly I mean luckily there are a lot of most companies Just a small thing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, most companies do, but there are some companies where I've been like really realizing that you actually don't fundamentally value human beings and if you don't, then this work around menopause wouldn't go very far right. I think you know you all could come up with a whole set of cultural attributes that need to be in place. There's things that are related, for sure, to do people have a voice, do people feel like they can be themselves at work, a lot of things related to inclusion and psychological safety, for sure, but finding out, really are those valued? Would that little profile be in place so that so this kind of work could be, could be accepted? So I, so I think that that would be a really cool place to start. I mean, just to throw in my own, I definitely like love what you all are doing and really appreciate what you're doing and have had my I think I might've mentioned to both of you in prior conversations.
Speaker 3:I've definitely had my own struggles and it was kind of like afterwards realizing how much of my struggle was pretty. I could attribute a lot of it to menopause. This was during it was right when COVID hit and menopause hit me hard on a plane. I I thought that when people would go through menopause, that it would be like a slow, very slowly, I'm going to start feeling this and for me it was one plane ride and it hit me like like a car crash. It was so bad, like like a car crash. It was so bad and um, but then you know the the year after that really struggling with it.
Speaker 3:And it was right, when I decided to leave a job that I was pretty invested in, um, and there were it's always complex, right, it's never just like, oh, it was just that, but um, I attribute a lot of my decisions to leave were lack of sleep. Feeling completely like for a year not sleeping. That will mess with you. Anyway, I'm happy to talk more about my story because I wish I had learned more about how much this would affect how I felt about my job. I never really thought about it before and this was only a couple of years ago. You know that this happened. This wasn't like 20 years ago and you know, thinking about, did I feel like I could speak up about that? Did I feel like I could be honest about that? I don't think so. I mean it just didn't feel like I could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the safe you need, a safe place you need to feel safe, yeah, and we hear and we recommend to organizations almost every time that we share with them, that senior leadership has to be involved and it really does have to come from senior leadership or things don't change.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and that's what one of the reasons why I called this book the Power of Culture is because power is completely intricately, you know, entwined with culture.
Speaker 3:So that's how really we take. A lot of our learning in organizations is looking to people who we think have made it in the system. Right, and those people who've made it are the people at the top, and so those people are who we look to like they figured this out, so we should do what they do, I should, I should like learn from them, and so it's a really interesting learning and adapting process that happens when we learn about culture. And so if the people at the top are not talking about anything like this, right, anything personal, and definitely not talking about menopause themselves, you know, um, anything that's puts them in a vulnerable state or like being honest about something that you know they can't control, um, it's, it's, it's really hard, right, and so power is a really important part of these kinds of conversations. We have to have leaders who get understand their power and understand their influence and are supportive and, you know, really walk the talk around this.
Speaker 1:Show, not tell. We say there's a difference between show versus tell. Yes completely.
Speaker 2:Laura, you have been a part of a lot of companies implementing well-being policies and processes and procedures like menopause. It'd be interesting to get your perspective on what works for doing those kinds of things and what doesn't.
Speaker 2:What should you know when somebody listening to this works in a company where this stuff isn't being talked about yet, or they want to bring it up? Because one of the things we get asked is how can we make this happen at our company? Right, and the studies have shown the number one reason why it's not there is because nobody asks for it. Nobody asked for it, so you're expecting your company to read your mind on what it is right.
Speaker 2:But as a company is rolling this out and, and you know, it's a new sort of way in which they're supporting their employees. What will make it successful and what have you seen not successful in that space? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So the not successful is putting it as a little side program that's on a website somewhere that you know, like you all are free to go and take advantage of that resource. I mean it's great, it still will help some people, but it's not going to be really used unless you have a this term that I use that's it's not my term, but it's organizational support, right? Organizational support theory is this idea that to what extent does the whole organization, meaning all the human beings at all different levels, and all the systems and all the processes and all the structures, to what extent are those in support of the human beings that are there? And so you can't just have this good resource or tool or program and not have organizational support. If you have organizational support, it's much more likely that the real outcome will be achieved of, you know, helping people. You know live better life through these kinds of things like menopause, and so that looks like manager support. You know, to what extent does a manager really understand this? To what extent does a manager show through their actions that they're supportive, but also leadership support and having leaders, like you were just saying. Having leaders, you know, again, not just talk but also act, and then a big part of that is also cultural alignment and making sure that you know this is working, that the culture is working in line with this. So I think that that's, you know, easier said than done, for sure, but it's really helping organizations understand that you don't just say yes to something like this and then like, turn it on.
Speaker 3:This is what people used to think when we the company that I helped start, right Limeade that was focused on wellbeing, especially in the beginning is, oh, we're just gonna get your software and we're gonna turn it on and then everybody's gonna have wellbeing. And it was like oh yeah, we need to teach people something a little different about this. We need to help them understand that. No, no, no, no. This is gonna facilitate that, but there's a whole bunch of things that you need to do and if you really are committed to this, if you really want this for your employees, there are things that you have to do and it has to become real. And it's exactly the same thing I'm saying with the culture work right, you can do, you can create these values, you can put them on your website, but it's not gonna, it's not gonna matter unless people experience it. In fact, I have this term in my book around when there's a disconnect between what I thought I was getting into and so this could be similar right to what you all are doing in your work.
Speaker 3:If people think, oh, my organization actually cares about this experience I'm having of going through menopause, cares about this experience I'm having of going through menopause, and they say they do, but then what actually happens goes against that. So I was sold something, I bought it and that's not what I got. That actually can have a negative effect. It's not just a no effect, right, and from a culture perspective, I call that cultural betrayal, right. So you thought you were getting this culture that's on the website of how amazing this place is, and then you get there and you don't experience it.
Speaker 3:It can have a pretty like dramatic effect on people. So it's it's kind of a big deal to do the work, you know, and I think I think that's just the thing that I see over and over again is it's it's kind of a big deal to do the work, you know, and I think that's just the thing that I see over and over again. It's about doing with regard to the book that I wrote, but it's doing the culture work. You gotta roll up your sleeves, you gotta figure this out for your organization. There's not this like easy answer that unfortunately, I feel like most people don't.
Speaker 2:Your book didn't tell me like, do one through ten and you're good, which is fine. It was really great of like you know how do you think about your culture and how do you it. What is it first off and then what is what is the work that you need to do? And I think it was um, you've given lots of great examples, but I think you give a lot of great examples of that people can relate to. I think the idea that you talk about how, once you're in a culture, you can't really experience, you don't really know what the culture is, probably till you leave, I think that's an interesting, an interesting place to be too, or experience something different right.
Speaker 1:And you know, you don't know what you don't know because you don't see it anymore. It reminds me when we bought our first house and it was an old house, it looks like Brady Bunch, right, the avocado, you know, green refrigerator in the gold countertops. And you know, I remember sitting around with our friends and he said to us it was the switch plates. They were so awful and I remember Kevin just saying y'all need to make a list of these things because you're not going to see the switch plates, right, like you won't the longer you're here and it's going to take you a while with this house, you're not going to see the switch plates anymore. And it's the same thing, right? We just don't. We don't't see the switch plates because it just becomes part of, you know, coming to work in this culture.
Speaker 1:And so sometimes those outside eyes are really good for somebody to come in. And you know my, it would be my sister to say why have you not changed those switch plates?
Speaker 3:Such a great example, and I think also thinking about new employees when they come and kind of question things and say what? What do you mean? Nobody asks questions at your all hands, you know. Or what do you mean? That that leader, nobody can ask them a question, you know?
Speaker 1:Right right what.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what? What about those switchblades? Yeah, I think that's a great example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a great example. So, Laura, in your work, what kind of themes are you seeing for cultures these days, Like how are we evolving? Are we evolving in the right direction? Do you see? Give us good news. Yeah, do you see employee well-being and programs such as you know, menopause support or you know, you name the life event that people go through. What are sort of the broader trends that you're seeing?
Speaker 3:There's much more of an openness and understanding of the human beings that are doing this work. We need to value them, and so that is encouraging, right. I think there was a time when I was first doing culture work where it was the actual attributes we focused on were more be a really important part of the conversation, kind of the center, or at least a core part of the conversations. It's encouraging.
Speaker 3:Now, the way that goes down varies from company to company and how much they want to emphasize, you know, specific things like the well-being of their employees is it's more on a continuum, right. Like I'm working with this one company right now and they wanted they put wellbeing into their values, but I don't think they really know what it means. You know, I'm like this is going to be hard because you're going to have to practice this. You're going to have to like, make this real. So I would love for you to dig into that. So, yeah, so, um, yeah, I think that's that's encouraging the idea of being human centric and thinking about, you know, what people. What humans need is is definitely, and it could be also like I probably wouldn't be hired by somebody who didn't think that.
Speaker 3:So who knows right I'm probably not getting all those winning bro culture things.
Speaker 1:But the good news is that there are companies that are hiring you that do value that, so it's good, completely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think I mean I, I am still super optimistic about culture work because I keep seeing. So there are definitely companies that are not doing anything related to culture and keep their head in the sand and aren't, you know, aren't paying attention to it. But I, you know, I see these companies that do the work, that do the heavy lifting and then start figuring it out and just see how awesome it is when it starts to click right and when it starts to really land with employees and that's such a beautiful thing to be a part of, to see that happen and see how powerful it is. That's another reason why I wanted to call the book the Power of Culture is because that the power of it is. I use a picture on the front of the book of a sunshine. Right, it's like the sun. When you have all of this start to become real and experienced by people, it feels really good.
Speaker 3:To become real and experienced by people, it feels really good and it feels like we can do anything together right, if we kind of are united in this way. So I get to see that, and so that's why I continue to be optimistic about it.
Speaker 1:Cool work. I love that. I love that, as I was going to ask you what happens on the other side when that happens, but you just painted that visual of the sun and coming together and answered that question so beautifully and I didn't even have to ask it. I love that. Well, laura, how can people find you?
Speaker 3:yeah, so LinkedIn is probably my main way, so definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. It it's just Laura Hamill, h-a-m-i-l-l, and also my book that is on sale on Amazon and on Barnes and Noble and Porchlight like all the typical kind of places you would buy a book, and it's called the Power of Culture.
Speaker 1:So those are the main ways. So great, what a gift. Thank you for taking the time to write the book. It's that's not an easy task, so congratulations on that.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so much of your time. Are you ready to move and have a little bit of fun, so we can get a little bit on a personal level with our fire round? Yes, all right, let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Kim, you want me to start?
Speaker 1:fire first. Are you a morning?
Speaker 3:person or a night owl Morning, big time, early morning, frighteningly early, I loved you. Laura.
Speaker 2:I have so many texts from April. Who's already done so much thinking before I get out of bed. It's crazy. I see you, laura. Okay, are you a binge watcher, or do you have to watch the whole season, or do you want to watch episodes and switch between shows?
Speaker 3:That's a hard one, cause I feel like there's surface level stuff on binge and better stuff I do over time Like if it has a good plot I want to savor it, if it has a crappy plot, I'm okay, just watching it back to back to back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay. I just have to ask it's not, it's not on our list, but what's your favorite thing to binge?
Speaker 3:Any recommendations? Well, after the election, I was doing Bridgerton for some reason.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to see, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah just wanted to see that kind of sexy stuff.
Speaker 3:I don't know why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's good, bridgerton's good, yeah, okay. So salty or sweet, oh salty.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are just like. Sisters from another mother are like. You guys have me out on both of those, so okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. Okay, and the last question that we ask everyone what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received?
Speaker 3:So this was in some ways it's advice, and sometimes it's kind of. In some ways it's kind of an exercise. The best it was sit down, get a blank piece of paper and design your perfect day is sit down, get a blank piece of paper and design your perfect day.
Speaker 3:And I did it and I was honest and I was embarrassed. I remember doing it, going, oh, who gets to do this? Like this is. So I feel so like privileged and so gross by saying, well, I want to take my time and I want to drink my two cups of coffee slow, and then I want to exercise for a couple of hours and then I want to do some thinking work, and then in the afternoon maybe I'll meet with people and then I want to walk the dog with my husband and so like something like that Right. And I remember when I wrote it I was like like that Right. And I remember when I wrote it I was like, oh, this feels a little barfy, like who gets to have a life like this?
Speaker 3:So my therapist is the one who suggested I do that Right, and I wrote it down and a couple, maybe six months ago, she said you know, you're actually doing all of the things that you had written down have all come to fruition. And it's kind of weird because I have this main client that I work with who is in New Zealand, and they start my start with them is in the afternoon, and so I just I do a lot of my meeting time with them. In the afternoon I have other clients, but it's they're the ones that are like the bulk of my, of my work and so and then now I do the take my time and like it all kind of is happening. And so what I realized is that until I could write it down and like actually, even though it was hard to do, like say this is I actually could do this, this might be possible, I couldn't even put it into action. So that was really good advice from my therapist.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, really good.
Speaker 1:That's great. I know we should all do that. I'm thinking gosh, that's a great exercise for the new year.
Speaker 2:Slow coffee in the morning. For sure man, Slow coffee in the morning.
Speaker 1:Slow coffee and then we'll compare notes. Kim, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it's a great exercise for all of us to walk through and thank your therapist as well. Great advice.
Speaker 3:Seriously so good.
Speaker 1:Well, it has been a pleasure having you on. Thank you for your book. Thank you for the content that you've provided for our audience. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Laura, and thank you for the support that you've given to April and I throughout our process of our forming to where we are now. You were, you've been invaluable in in supporting us there, so we appreciate it.
Speaker 3:I love that and I love what you both are doing. Thank you both for what you're doing. It's really, really important and I think it's going to help so many people. So thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happy holiday and listeners until we meet again. Go find joy in the journey. Bye, laura, take care. Bye, laura, thank you. Thank you for listening to the Medovia menopause podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please give it a thumbs up. Subscribe for future episodes, leave a review and share this episode with a friend. Medovia is out to change the narrative. Learn more at medoviacom. That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
