The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast: Real Talk on Hormones, Work, and Wellness for Midlife

Episode 045: Embracing Change: Divorce, Empty Nesting, and Finding Yourself After 40

• April Haberman and Kim Hart • Season 1 • Episode 45

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Have you ever found yourself staring into the mirror wondering "Who am I now?" Michele Heffron, transformational life and divorce coach, joins us for a profound conversation about the identity shifts that occur during midlife transitions.

Michele shares how menopause often becomes a catalyst for deeper questioning about relationships, purpose, and fulfillment. "We get to this certain point in time and there's all these shifts taking place not only in our bodies but in who and how we're showing up in the world," she explains. This awakening frequently coincides with major life decisions around relationships, empty nesting, and career paths.

Fear emerges as the primary barrier preventing women from making necessary changes. Financial insecurity, loneliness, and social judgment create powerful resistance. Michele's perspective challenges conventional wisdom: "Life is not short, life is long, and if you are miserable or unhappy, it's a long time to be unhappy." This reframing gives women permission to prioritize their remaining years rather than endure continued dissatisfaction.

The path to rediscovery requires consistent, small efforts. Michele recommends starting with what you don't want, then inverting those points to clarify what you do want. Daily practices like journaling, meditation, and intentional stillness help women reconnect with their authentic selves after years of external focus. "If we don't start safeguarding our own time, we're going to fill it with things that are more important than ourselves—and what could be more important than ourselves?"

Living an aligned life means finding balance between different energies within yourself rather than swinging between compliance and defiance. This alignment allows women to make choices based on their own needs rather than constantly accommodating others' expectations. As Michele reminds us, "We have the right to be, do and have anything we want and desire."

Ready to stop arguing for your limitations? Listen now to gain practical wisdom for navigating midlife transitions with confidence and clarity. Subscribe to the MiDOViA Menopause Podcast for more conversations that help you reclaim your power during this transformative life stage. 

Michèle Heffron is a ICF certified transformational life, relationship and divorce coach who supports individuals through some of life’s most defining moments. From navigating the complexities of divorce to rediscovering identity after long-term partnerships, empty nesting, or career shifts, Michèle offers compassionate, strategic guidance through every phase of relationship transition.

Website: www.micheleheffron.com

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MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.

The information, including but not limited to, text, graphics, images & other material contained on this website are for informational purposes only. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. 

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your trusted source for information about menopause and midlife. Join us each episode, as we have great conversations with great people. Tune in and enjoy the show. Quick pause here, because this matters. Medovia is proud to be the first and only organization in the US offering a menopause-friendly membership and accreditation for workplaces. We're not a trend. We are not check-the-box benefit. We're a movement for lasting change. We're helping organizations of all sizes shift culture, support their people and retain experienced talent. Whether you're looking just to get started or ready to lead the way, we've built a roadmap rooted in best practices from hundreds of employers across the globe. If you want to learn more, head to menopausefriendlyuscom and find out how to become a workplace that doesn't just talk the talk but walks it, because menopause is a workplace issue and the best organizations know it. Hi everyone, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1:

Today we have Michelle Heffron on. She is an ICF certified transformational life, relationship and divorce coach who helps individuals navigate midlife transitions. Michelle draws from her own lived experience and decades of leadership in the corporate nonprofit worlds as she guides clients through divorce, empty nesting and reinvention to discover their authentic selves. We can't wait for this conversation. Welcome, michelle.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, both of you. It's such an honor to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're excited. We're looking forward to this conversation. I know we were on your podcast recently and we just have more and more and more to unpack, so thank you for spending the time with us here today. As you know, michelle, we work with midlife women as well who are navigating menopause, and this time of life can be very, very challenging. Midlife brings a wave of change, with divorce, that empty nesting that we're so familiar with. Career shifts, you name it. Why do you think that so many relationship transitions converge during this season of life?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just actually thinking about this within the last couple of days, and I think one of it is is that we get to this certain point in time and maybe it is menopause, maybe we don't even know. That's what it is. I think there's all these shifts taking place not only in our bodies but in just who and how we're showing up in the world, and I think why I was thinking about this is because it was about the time that I probably was going through menopause and I probably didn't really even understand. It is when I made the big shift and it was when I ended up leaving my marriage and moving and it was a really scary time for me. But I really remember thinking, now that I'm looking back on it, is that part of it is like what am I doing with my life, kind of. Is that part of it is like what am I doing with my life?

Speaker 2:

And nothing seems to be fitting the way I thought it was supposed to be, and I think a lot of the women I work with end up going through this and it might take years to sort of get to that point where you're going. Something's not fulfilling. I'm not. I'm feeling empty, I'm feeling invisible, I don't feel like I'm myself anymore, and I think when people are, and women are, going through menopause, I think there is a disconnect with their partners a lot of times too, because they don't feel seen or heard or understood, and I think so. So much of it has, and you probably see this so much. But so much of this has to do with not understanding what's happening to them, you know, or for them. I don't know, that's. I do think I see that a lot, and after you, after we had our conversation a few weeks ago, and the more I think about things, I think, gosh, there's a lot more connectivity here than I even realized just a few weeks ago.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay. So for our listeners that aren't familiar with your podcast, can you tell them where to find that replay, what's the name of your podcast and how can they find that if they want to go back and listen?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the podcast as well.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the podcast as well. My podcast is called Getting to the, just to track that history and conversation that we have there, because there is a lot of dots that connect with women in midlife and I imagine that there are a lot of fears that women bring to you as they're considering divorce. What are some of those common fears that they express with you as they're considering separation or divorce in midlife?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and fear is one of those things that we don't even realize, but it plays into so many parts of our lives. But when I'm talking, in particular with women, but when I'm talking in particular with women, they're oh, it's the fear of the unknown, it's the fear of I don't know if I'm going to be able to survive on my own. I'm the fear. It's the fear of financial security, it's the fear of stigma around divorce. It's the fear of being alone. Even if they were alone sometimes in their marriage, in so many ways at least they were with somebody and they didn't feel like they were on their own all the time.

Speaker 2:

There is so much that surrounds that fear factor that inhibits us or keeps us stuck from going to where we really want to go or even exploring what our real, true needs are. There's a fear of being able to show up as who you are, because then you might rock the boat or you might not be liked, or you know you might feel like it's mean, or there's any number of reasons why that fear factor plays in. But but the major ones are the financial piece of it, the unknown, the what's going to happen to me and if they have kids at this during that time too, because some people do I mean many people still have kids. I work with a lot of women who don't, but it's it's their adult children. How is that going to impact them? I mean, everybody worries, women in particular, I think, worry about what everybody else is going to think and feel, rather than what it's going to mean to them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, and I want to get back. I want to get back to that, but first I really want to understand what. How do you differentiate between a life transition and a true identity shift, like what is happening, where you really feel like now is the time to make a change at midlife and and this could be divorce, it could be job change, it could be right, it could be a whole bunch of things but how do you differentiate between you know whether this is just a phase that I'm going through or whether this is a true sort of identity in a life transition that I really want to like, take on?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what a thoughtful question that is Kim. Because a transition. What a thoughtful question that is, kim. Because a transition. Now that I've done this work for so long, it almost requires a transformation. And what I mean by that is anytime we are continuing to do the same thing as we have always done it, we're going to get more of the same results In a transition. Let's just say, for a career, for instance, you're losing an identity, potentially, or a divorce, or you're losing identity of being a wife and a mother. Whatever it is, there's always a shift in the identity and it's learning to become and understanding what your real needs are. So you can become, and that's where the transformation comes into play.

Speaker 2:

In my mind, it's like we are always in flux, we're always changing and growing and we can try to stop the tide from coming in, but the fact is is that it's going to still come in. So, rather than fight it, it's starting to learn how to go with the flow of things a little bit. And transformation doesn't necessarily mean you're going to just throw everything out and start completely over. Sometimes it just means shifting things a bit. So you're starting to see things differently, and so our entire life is hinges on transitions in our lives, right, and? And so nothing ever stays the same, even though we you know you could have the same meal Mondays for the rest of your life, or whatever it is some of the monotonous kinds of things. But the fact is we're always aging, we're always changing and growing. In some way, we're always doing something that's shifting us from one place to another. So everything's a transition.

Speaker 2:

But when you're making the decision about a transformation, that starts looking at, well, what else is possible for you, rather than I'm going to stay in this box over here, but I want something to change in my life. So I don't know if I've answered that well, but oftentimes I see and I've done this myself Everything I do is lived experience, with a lot of training to back it up, but I've tried to stay the same and try to keep the things that I don't want to let go of because I'm afraid to, but I want something to change. Impossible to do that, because if you're not willing to sort of see things differently and move forward and understand what your real needs are and start getting comfortable with, maybe, the uncomfortability of I'm not sure if that was a word or not, but then comfortable enough. Whatever is that? If you're not willing to get a little uncomfortable with change, then it's going to be real hard for you to really kind of step into what you really want in your life. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I think that we're taught to make a plan and follow it Right, and so you've got to follow through and that's. You made a commitment and here's all the things you are. Are you seeing a different perspective on women's sort of point of view, on following what they want or thinking outside the box post-COVID? Did COVID teach us anything about that? Life is short and we should really think about how we want to spend the rest of our life.

Speaker 2:

I think COVID did accelerate that a little bit. I think there's a whole shift that I'm seeing anyway in sort of this whole idea behind purpose and you know what we want in the world or what we want out of life, and I look at this life as short, from a little different perspective. One time and I'll just share a little story because this happened to me when I was this was years ago and it was when I was getting I was getting a haircut and I didn't share very much about what was going on in my personal life. And it was right about the time. I was in my late forties and I knew that something wasn't going well in my marriage. And I remember saying something to my hairdresser she was so cute with the spiky hair and all this and she said I said something about well, I guess that's all, it's all fine, because you know life is short. And she wheeled me around in that chair and her little barber chair thing or whatever you know, her hairdresser chair and she wagged her little comb at me like this and she said life is not short, life is long and if you are miserable or unhappy, it's a long ass time to be miserable and unhappy. So you know what you get to decide now if you want to change that or if you want more of that same miserable life. And I went wow, yeah, that was a big wow and I didn't know what to do with that at the time. I really didn't.

Speaker 2:

But I will tell you, it plays into so much of the work I do now because there's a lot of people who just want to wait. I'm going to wait, I'm just going to wait. It's like what are you waiting for? You know what? If you have five more years left in you, why wait? Why not do something and have a really, really hellacious time with what you've got left? And if you, you know whatever age? And so that's why now I look at these things as, like you know, covid did accelerate that a lot. It certainly did for me. It slowed things down in a way that I needed. I don't know about you two, but I really needed some of that downtime. And there are days when I go back and I wish gosh, I wish it was that slow for just a week, or you know, just because there was time to make dinner together, there was time to go for walks, there was time to just be, and I think for a lot of people that was a major shift.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what you're talking about and speaking to is mindset. I think, yeah, it's shifting our mindset and how we think about transitions. You know midlife divorce and you described divorce not as an ending but a chance for reinvention, and I'm wondering what are some ways that midlife divorcees can reframe that story. Midlife divorcees, rather, can reframe that story that they're telling themselves. So, as you work with women, how do you help them change that mindset?

Speaker 2:

Oh that you know that mindset change is a big one and it takes small little steps and baby baby steps to do it, but it's starting to learn a one of the things you said about. You know that redirect is understanding and getting very comfortable with the fact that as women, as human beings, we have the right to change our mind. So the way we thought things were supposed to go was maybe what it was supposed to do for the time it did, but now you get to choose something different. We always have these choices, so it's learning how to open up to choice and understanding what you want. So I love working with women in midlife going through this, because they'll they start to rediscover who they were, because some of you in their early 20s and you don't really even know who you are yet and you forget all the things that you really love to do because, for whatever reason, most of the time we gave it up ourselves, but then we said it was somebody else's doing and we um, we became invisible in our own you know places and when people start to open up to see what else is possible and they start to welcome in some different and new ideas about things and some people move through that faster than others.

Speaker 2:

Some of us who have been ingrained with indoctrinated belief systems through religious organizations or society, we don't always really know what we're allowed to do, and it's about giving ourselves permission to start exploring and seeing what else is out there.

Speaker 2:

So that mindset shift is the big thing and in fact I don't know if I told you this before but like, one of the books I have many of my clients read is by Dr Carol Druck and it's called Mindset and it's a beautiful book because it really illustrates so well the way we have been conditioned to believe. And I have to say when I was reading the book, the last time I thought I was, I thought I had a pretty, you know, growth mindset, kind of a but boy. I sure found a lot of areas that I didn't, and it's always a good reminder to kind of see what else is possible when you let go of some of your old beliefs. And so so much of the work is around identifying patterns and old beliefs and learning how to move through those comfortably and let them go, and there's a lot of, you know, identifying and then releasing things that no longer fit. So I'm big on decluttering space, but decluttering what's in your head too, yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's a good book to read another time and then maybe another time after that, because there's so many things that some books are meant to be read.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

But so someone who's trying to reinvent their life and trying to rebuild their confidence and their sense of self? You know you mentioned, you have them read mindset, but how, how else do you guide them to be able to figure out what they want? Because we we've seen that when we ask women at this stage of life, what is it that you want, no one's really asked them that and they haven't considered it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

But so how do you figure out what you want? And then how do you help yourself rebuild once you figure out what that is? Because you got down really well, the whole, like you know, deal you had before and that and I'm talking about, even if you want to stay married and but just want to right, you just want to have a different plan for the next phase of your life. How do we go about that? How do we go about figuring out what we want? And then, once we do, how do we build the confidence and the energy and the sort of self-actualization to go figure out how to make that happen?

Speaker 2:

We do that. So first I want to say that I'm not an advocate for everybody going through divorce. I don't. I mean, I really think there's a lot of repair work that can be done when we start to understand one another and understand each other's needs. So I just wanted to make sure that I put that out there, because I'm not necessarily advocating for every. I'm a woman of. I love love. I mean, love is a big piece and I want people to learn how to love better and they.

Speaker 2:

Most of it is starting with loving yourself, and most of us aren't taught how to love ourselves. When it gets down to the, you know what is your, what are your desires, what do you really want? You're right, I think it's about I don't know what it's like. 95% of us don't know what we want all the time. So we start oftentimes by informing what we want, by understanding what we don't want, because most people will tell me they can give me a list of all the things they don't want and it's like a list a mile long. I'm like, okay, let's start with that, let's change these things around. Then, If you want, let's just say in a marriage, what you don't want is you don't want to feel invisible. Okay, well, if you turn that around, what is it that you want? I want to be seen, I want to be heard, I want to be understood, and we don't look always at what is what is the? What does it look like, specifically as what does it feel like when you are in a place of what you want? So it's starting out slow and understanding that you have to spend more time visualizing what you want in your life and most of it comes down to how is it making you feel? Because it's an embodied experience and most people it takes some work, I have to say, because we have to spend a lot of time getting out of our heads, dropping into our hearts and our bodies and understanding how it's feeling when we're in a space of being able to grow and learn and open up to what we do want and allowing ourselves to do that.

Speaker 2:

I work, I do a lot of journaling, prompts and things like that for people to start getting this stuff up and out, and I get a lot of resistance from it, you know, because I think that is why. Why? Because we? It's like everything else If you're going to get good at something, you have to practice it. It has to become daily. It's like I tell people I love when I talk to people and I go yeah, I know that I go. How's that working out in your life then? What are you doing If you know that that needs to be done and how's that working for you? Well, I don't actually do it.

Speaker 1:

I know I should do it, but I'm not doing it, right yeah, yoga practice.

Speaker 2:

You don't go to yoga one day and get real good at it. You actually have to work at this stuff. So I'll never forget when I first started meditating, I have to say it was like pulling teeth out of me and I would set a little timer and I would sit there in the dark and I would like, oh, really help me. And so I get it. But if we don't start safeguarding our own time in the morning or whenever we want to do our work on ourselves, then we're going to fill it in with a bunch of stuff that is more important than ourselves and what could be more important than ourselves? So it starts that small. It's like there's not a list of five things you can do and all of a sudden, boom, you're going to know what you want. It's a slow, gradual getting to know who you are and listening.

Speaker 2:

So one of the terms I use a lot is be still. I like to be still. I can't do that, I'm ADHD, I'm this and that, and it's like, okay, well, look, just like everything else. You know, if you had to sit, and you know, in a bathtub for two and a half minutes, could you do that? I mean, that's how small it has to start sometimes is really getting people into the habit. But they have to be willing to want to make the shift and the change in their lives too. And if you're not willing, if it's not worth it to you, then you get more of the same.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm hearing baby steps, which is good. Just take the step right. It doesn't matter how big or how small, but just take the step, be still, be quiet so that you can feel and we don't acknowledge how we feel if we're constantly moving and constantly thinking. So that's what I'm hearing from you, michelle, and, just for listeners, that that that's pretty easy Not easy to do in practice, but it's easy to remember.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but feeling the feelings.

Speaker 1:

And feeling the feelings can be scary too. Right, you're asking me to feel, and I may have stuffed some of this for a very long time and now I have to feel it.

Speaker 2:

And that I think that's one of the biggest pieces of it is is understanding that feelings are meant to be felt that's why they're called feelings and understanding that the emotions that kind of get connected to feelings sometimes are the meaning we're making from things. And it's starting to get curious about why am I feeling this way. And it's really taking and like you said, it's baby steps. It's taking a deeper dive on why am I feeling this way. It's getting curious about it. Getting curious, yeah, being curious about curious, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And when you can factor in that curiosity and start asking yourself, without trying to come up with the answer, letting that come to you, that's how slow we have to make it. We have to slow it way down so you can actually change the frame. You know it's like watching a film frame by frame by frame, but if you start to put a different frame for the picture, it's going to start changing what happens, um, you know, and what is getting projected, and feelings can't really hurt you right, you know I feel like they can when you're feeling them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and there's so much data on the fact that if you just sit with the feeling, it will pass. Yes, and I've seen that happen. In the first few times that that happened to me, I was like, oh wow, that was a rollercoaster ride, right. I'm like deep in this feeling and I'm just okay, let me just feel this, because this really sucks. And then I'm like, okay, I'm okay, it's not that bad yeah, we anticipate the pain, um, and it's usually what.

Speaker 2:

What do they say? Reality is usually kinder than our thoughts about it.

Speaker 3:

The anticipation of something happening is is always worse than it actually happening. Like you will live through it. You talk about alignment as being really important to live an aligned life. What does that mean and how do you do that? After a big change, whether it's a relationship shift, a job shift, your kids leaving, how do you live an aligned life?

Speaker 2:

Alignment has become my place now, rather than people often think they're broken after something. They're broken after a relationship change, they're broken after their kids leave home, but it's actually not broken, it's coming back into who you are. So I look at balance in terms of sort of feminine and masculine energies in a way, and if one is pulling us too far over to one side, we're out of alignment with ourselves, and so then that's where fear starts to come in and there's like this defiant part of us and then there's this compliant part of us. So we even shift between those things sometimes. So if you think about when you're being compliant, those things sometimes. So if you think about when you're being compliant, you know it's. It's wearing your hair a certain way. This is a silly example, because your husband wants you to and not doing it the way you want to, but if you're in defiance, you're going to screw him. I'm going to shave it all off today and do whatever the hell I want, but neither one of them are in alliance with who you are. You know your true self would just say you know what? Here's what I really. This is me. You can take me as I am kind of a person or you can not like me, but I can't be impacted by whether or not you accept me, because I have to accept me. I'm the most important person here.

Speaker 2:

So helping people get into alliance or alignment with themselves is getting more and more true to who they truly are. And that takes some time and effort, because we have become who we identify with in that relationship or in that particular situation and we have to learn how we're going to be safe and okay on our own because we know what's true to us. So happiness is part of that is being in alignment with your own self, because the idea is is that it shouldn't take somebody else to make you happy. Your happiness comes from within. And learning that is a very challenging thing when we've always been looking to the outside for our kids to make us happy or our spouse to make us happy or whoever else, and so um, and that's why you you probably know I mean this work, I mean we fill in voids where we're unhappy with other things that come in, and you know it comes in, and it's also a way to mask or cover up feelings.

Speaker 2:

It's like, you know, drinking or overeating or whatever the different vices. We do these things so we don't have to feel. And when we're doing that we're kind of glazing over what's really going on and it's getting kind of more true to our own selves. And that's what I mean in alignment is balancing out that defiant and compliant piece of us, letting go of the fear so we can come back into our own self and be completely at peace with who we are and not always trying to figure out what everybody else needs from us, so we can be who they need us to be but not who we need us to be. So there's always a cost, you know, in all, for all this, because you have to be willing to be uncomfortable with that, you have to be unwilling to sometimes disappoint other people, but yeah as women moms, caretakers

Speaker 3:

that's the last thing we want to do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and constantly justifying why we're doing it Right yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that alignment piece, though it makes me think of we're on one side or the other, right Masculine feminine, rather than coming to the center.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because there's a balance. It it's not a gender thing, it's a energetic thing, it's it's we. We all have both in us, right as it's meant to be. And sometimes, when we're exercising more of the feminine side that's when the creative pieces come out More masculine side, we're getting stuff done. I mean, there's those kinds of things, and so when you can balance those things out, it's a beautiful alignment with who you are meant to be.

Speaker 1:

Right, we're much happier. Yes, because we're aligned. I'm wondering, as we wrap up here, if you can give our listeners one piece of advice for anybody that might be standing here at the crossroads of divorce, empty nesting, reinvention. What would that one piece of advice be if I'm here at this crossroad?

Speaker 2:

give yourself permission to see things differently and to stop arguing for your limitations and understanding that the fears and doubts aren't really facts. They're just echoes of your past trying to take you off course, and all those fears have no right to design your life. Only you know what's the best for you and it's so really not taking a poll of what everybody else thinks you should do is really spending some time with you and understanding what it is that you need in your life. I love that. That's good.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I realized that when I my intuition speaks for me there, I don't need anybody's opinion about it, it just is that right. And so when you're still and you can listen, you know I don't need to go. You know, do a social experiment of asking everybody what they think about it.

Speaker 1:

A survey, let's say yeah, what do you think about it? No, we're true to our hearts.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, michelle, this is such a great conversation and we could go on for a long time. Where can people find you?

Speaker 2:

Thank you, yes, so my website is michelleheffroncom. Thank you, yes, so my website is michelleheffroncom. I'm on the socials on LinkedIn, instagram and Facebook. I have my podcast Getting to the Heart and gosh what else. And I do have. I'm launching a book club. I don't know when this is going to air, but the first book we're reading for my book club is Untamed and I think it's a good book, best one Spot on for this conversation. We're happy that's a book I've read over and over again.

Speaker 1:

It's another one to keep on the shelf, right, don't get the Kindle copy.

Speaker 3:

We need a hard copy of that book. I have it in hard copy, kindle and audio book.

Speaker 2:

I do, and I'm taking it this weekend. It's funny.

Speaker 1:

Oh, good, good, you have a nice good book we're recording over Labor Day weekend, so nice reading time Before we let you go. Michelle, though, we ask every guest what the best piece of advice you've ever received or given has been. What would you say to that?

Speaker 2:

Best piece of advice? Gosh, I've gotten so much advice over the years. I think the best piece of advice is one I got from my coach, and several years ago, and it is as women, as humans, we have the right to be, do and have anything we want and desire, and that doesn't mean in a greedy way, it just means that we don't turn ourselves inside out to please other people. We actually can have it and we deserve it, and I think that's the one thing that people miss sometimes is that we deserve to have love in our lives. We deserve to have people surround us who care and are kind and compassionate, and we deserve abundance and all kinds of goodness. And when you understand that you are deserving of these things as hard as that can be if you've been conditioned differently that opens up so many more doors and possibility.

Speaker 3:

It's a great reminder. It's a good reminder. It's hard to, it's hard to believe that sometimes, but it's good to try on every once in a while.

Speaker 1:

It is. Yeah, Put that jacket on every day. You are deserving and you are enough. Exactly. Thank you for that, Michelle, and thank you so much for being on the show. I'm sure that our paths will cross again and for listeners until we meet again, go find joy in the journey. I'm sure that our paths will cross again. And for listeners until we meet again, go find joy in the journey. Take care now. Thank you for listening to the Medovia menopause podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please give it a thumbs up, subscribe for future episodes, leave a review and share this episode with a friend. Medovia is out to change the narrative. Learn more at Medoviacom. That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.

People on this episode

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April Haberman

Co-host
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Kim Hart

Co-host