The MiDOViA Menopause Podcast: Real Talk on Hormones, Work, and Wellness for Midlife

Episode 052: The Truth About Menopause: Lifestyle, Longevity, and the Future of Menopause Support

• April Haberman and Kim Hart • Season 1 • Episode 52

Share episode

Menopause doesn’t have to mean white‑knuckling through sleepless nights, brain fog, and a maze of appointments. We sit down with Dr. Taylor Hahn, a board‑certified OBGYN and certified menopause practitioner, to map a clearer path: ask better questions, build a care team that truly engages, and use lifestyle medicine as a force multiplier for relief. Instead of cramming everything into a rushed visit, Dr. Hahn shows how to prepare a sharp symptom list, lead with your top priority, and confidently ask whether your clinician feels comfortable managing menopause. Honest answers save months and get you to the right help faster.

We dig into the lever with the biggest payoff: sleep. You’ll learn how fragmented nights fuel inflammation, drag mood and focus, and undermine nutrition and movement—and how simple hygiene shifts and reducing alcohol can restore deep, restorative rest. From there, we reframe exercise as accessible “movement snacks”: counter push‑ups while the coffee brews, squats before the shower, hourly stretch breaks that rebuild capacity without a gym. On the nutrition front, Dr. Hahn favors a plant‑forward, personalized approach guided by your schedule, preferences, and labs, emphasizing consistency over trends like intermittent fasting when they don’t fit your real life.

Brain fog, mood changes, and hot flashes aren’t character flaws; they’re biological and deserve respectful, evidence‑based care. We explore how cognitive behavioral therapy, community, and—when appropriate—hormone therapy can work together. We also highlight why virtual care is a game changer for access, engagement, and follow‑through, and what a menopause‑friendly workplace looks like when education and flexibility become the norm. The main shift we champion is from coping to empowered prevention: assemble your team, open the lines between visits, and claim the right to feel like yourself again.

If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more women can find the support they deserve.

Dr. Hahn is a board-certified OB/GYN and certified menopause practitioner through The Menopause Society. She is an active member of ISSWSH, the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health, and the International Society for Sexual Medicine, and has also received additional training through the Obesity Medicine Association. As a prescribing physician for Alloy Health, Dr. Hahn is passionate about education of both patients and clinicians in regards to women’s health and midlife care and strongly believes that fostering a strong, supportive community is vital to empowering women in all aspects of life.

Website: www.myalloy.com

MiDOViA LINKS:

Website: https://www.midovia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymidovia
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/midovia
Email Us: info@midovia.com

MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.

The information, including but not limited to, text, graphics, images & other material contained on this website are for informational purposes only. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. 

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome everyone to our special four-part webinar series in recognition of Menopause Awareness Month. We're so proud to bring this important conversation to life through a partnership with Alloy Health, a leader in evidence-based menopause care and telehealth solutions, and Medovia, the U.S. workplace leader in menopause and midlife health. Throughout the series, we've been breaking down myths, sharing the latest science, and highlighting real experiences of women navigating perimenopause, menopause, and beyond. And our goal is simple: to replace silence with knowledge, empower women to advocate for themselves, and give organizations the tools they need to build supportive cultures. Together, Alloy and Medovia are working to change the way menopause and frankly, this stage of life is understood in healthcare, in the workplace, and in society. So thank you everyone for joining us as we open the door to honest, informed, and hopeful conversations. Today we're addressing lifestyle longevity and the future of menopause support, and we're joined today by Dr. Taylor Hahn. Dr. Hahn is a board-certified OBGYN and certified menopause practitioner through the Menopause Society. She's an active member of ITWICH, the International Society for Study of Women's Sexual Health, and the International Society for Sexual Medicine, and has also received additional training through the Obesity Medicine Association. As a subscribing physician for Alloy Health, Dr. Han is passionate about the education of both patients and clinicians in regards to women's health and midlife care, and strongly believes that fostering a strong, supportive community is vital to empowering women in all aspects of life. We've been talking all month about awareness, but today we're going beyond that. This session is really about how women can thrive in midlife and beyond, in health, in work, and in life. Dr. Han, welcome. We're so thrilled to have you here.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. You know, um, I was thinking about this session before we hopped on and just about my own personal experience. You know, it's hard to not put yourself in the shoes of patients or employees. And thinking about the fact that women, you know, we can experience 34 plus symptoms of menopause and oftentimes at the same time. Okay, um, they're not in isolation, and it can be really, really hard. And that um that brought up the first question that I'd like to ask you to kick it off. When someone comes to you and says, you know, what can I do to feel better? I'm miserable. What can I do? Where do you start with that patient? Do you um do you start with nutrition? Do you start with sleep, exercise, or something entirely different? Where's the conversation start?

SPEAKER_00:

I I like to get a sense um overall of just how my patients have um adapted in their everyday life. So I actually just like to get a sense of like, what's your daily, what's your like normal day like? Um, are you working? Um, are you also kind of the primary caretaker for your children? Are you primary caretaker for other family members? Um, what's what's that stress level like? Um what have you tried previously? I think all those questions, rather than like first diving in and saying, oh, I need to diagnose you with something, I need to um, I need to get all these labs and you know, labs and evaluation, all of that comes down the road, but I think getting a sense for a patient as to what they have tried, what um, what is sort of affecting their daily life? Um, you can learn so much more about a patient just by asking those questions first.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and and I appreciate that. And most doctors only have 15 minutes. You know, women get frustrated because they don't get answers when then when they go in to talk to their talk to their doctor. How should they prepare to be able to talk to their doctor so that you can begin looking at ways in which you can help them?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's a really excellent point. Um, and one that in my own practice we've tried to sort of tackle so that we can make the most out of the patients' time with us, um, even though we do have a little bit of extended time to spend with our patients. Um, I think first is really um writing out a list um of what is kind of your primary um issues that you think are sort of top of your list of what you want to address. Um, and then, but still kind of a list out what you've been experiencing overall. Um, and then I know that there's kind of some lists out there floating around of questions that you can ask of your provider. Um, I think one of the top questions that I would encourage you to ask is do you feel comfortable managing menopause, perimenopause, um, some of the symptoms that I'm going through? Um, I don't think that that is a question that should be ever off the table because if that provider is comfortable, they're going to be confident in the care that they're they're giving you. Um, I think that it shouldn't be taboo for providers to be able to say, you know what, I am not the best person for you to have that conversation, but I know who is. And to be able to sort of build that community network, we as physicians and as just healthcare providers in general, we can't be everything to everybody, right? Um, and I think it's okay for us to say, I'm not the expert, but I want to get you the help that you need. Um, and so one that I think that is one of the most important questions to ask because you don't want to go through this whole conversation only to have your concerns not be addressed or sort of be dismissed. Um, and then you are are left thinking, okay, are they are they not important enough? Or, you know, am I am I really kind of making this up in my mind? Um so you want those to be addressed.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's interesting um that you say that because we we often um recommend to employers and employees uh as part of the prep for the appointment, when you call the receptionist, you call the scheduler to ask who in your office specializes in menopause or hormone health. But um I don't think we've taken that one step further to say, hey, include this in your questions for your healthcare practitioner as well. Ask, right? And that might feel a little bit bold for some people. I think um, you know, if I think about myself and I'm 57 years old, um, I was brought up, you know, never to question healthcare providers. Um you take it at face value, you don't you don't question um their authority, I guess, if if we want to call it that for lack of a better way of saying that. So I think here we're just giving permission, right? You have permission to ask your healthcare provider if they're comfortable managing your menopause, everyone, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

And I and I think vice versa, where you're um you're encouraging them to really um avoid having sort of a very poor experience with the healthcare system, right? Like we want to, it it oftentimes takes four to six months to get in to see someone. So why would you want to to waste that entire waiting time only to get to an appointment where they say, you know what, I actually can't help you? Um so as far as I love that you have um that encouragement to to ask that up front, like, hey, do you have someone who um who's interested in this or who really feels comfortable managing this? Um, but I don't think that it should ever um I think we're entering a time of healthcare where we're more we're partnering with patients a lot more than just telling them what to do. Um, and that taking at face value, um, I think can sometimes be detrimental to patient care too.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And some of my favorite doctors have referred me to people that they that knew more about the situation than what they knew. And it saves so much time. And I and I just, you know, I really, really appreciate that someone that wants to help me like that. But you know, you know the statistic, like women see between seven to nine doctors to try and find the right person, you know, something around that, but a lot of doctors trying to find the right person that can help them. And they're already stretched too thin on everything else. So it's just one more task to add on to that list. Like, you know, they're dealing with all of their symptoms and probably their children and probably their parents. And how do you help them make sustainable changes when they're already stretched too thin by everything else going on? You've spent the time to get to know what's going on with them. How do you help them think about actionable steps that they can take given everything else that's going on in their life?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that the the establishing a good, strong relationship with your provider is so important. You know, I think we we think of healthcare almost in small boxes, to where it's like, okay, I have to get everything done in this one visit and everything covered in this one visit. I oftentimes will set the stage for patients that, hey, I'm not going to be able to cure everything in this one visit. We really need good quality follow-up. And that oftentimes is in the form of visits, but oftentimes that's in the form of just check-ins, you know, like I want you to be able to check in with me and say, hey, I just want to update you. This is what I'm feeling. Um, you know, I've had a couple of weird things happen. Is this normal? You know, like you, it shouldn't be isolated in a box to where it's like, well, I'm not gonna talk to you about that. Talk to me about it at your visit. Um and so I think just encouraging patients to know that this is um, it's very much a journey and it's not everything's not going to get fixed in one visit. So just building that relationship with a provider that you trust is so, so important.

SPEAKER_01:

I also love that you're setting an expectation too. Cause I would go in and be like, okay, you understand this. So tell me, what should I do? And I'm in and out, and I'll see you in a year, right? Yeah. I've found that the best doctors and the best treatments, it takes time, which is also hard when you don't have any, but also important for that person to get to know you. So I appreciate that you set the expectation. Like, we can kind of deal with a few things today and not all of it. So let's just make sure we're in touch. And that's the kind of doctor you want to find, right? That's the one that wants to hear from me later and cares. Oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, yes. I have really found um that it's been such a profound um change in the dynamic with patients with my patients and me. Um, just by saying, I want to hear from you. I want you to check in. I want you, I want to make sure that what we're doing for you is the right plan and not waste six months. And then you come back and you say, actually, I didn't do any of that. Because, you know, the the number one thing is that I hear is um uh I went to go pick up the medication and they didn't have it. And then I didn't call, I didn't follow up. Um, because the the healthcare system has sort of set up um, again, that that feeling of isolation and that, oh, I should be able to figure this out on my own and I don't want to bother them. Um, but that's not how good quality preventative health care should function. And that's not how you should function with your relationship with someone who is who is taking care of one of the most important aspects of you, right? Your health.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so funny that you that you mentioned that because I did just that and I'm in the menopause space. So I mean, I know better, right? Yeah, and I feel like I am a huge advocate for my own health and I'm educated and knowledgeable. And I still questioned sending an email to my doctor. I had a question about a new medication, and I was like, oh, I don't wanna, I don't want to bother her, right? Um, so that that really goes way back. Um we're really changing that mindset when we give permission, again, giving permission to communicate with your healthcare provider. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. And it's deeply ingrained because um, you know, the way that my current practice is set up and the way that Alloy is set up as well, um, is that we have that open line of communication, um, that messaging, the easy phone calls. Like it's so easy for me now to be able to message securely with my patients, um, just to say, hey, I went ahead and updated that or I sent in that new prescription that you needed, rather than waiting three to five days down the road because your inbox is full and you're just so overwhelmed as a provider to do that. Like it's more of a, it's just much more of a um comfortable and trusting relationship rather than a I'm in this like this building that is like secure and you cannot reach me, you cannot talk to me. Um obviously you can't do that when you're seeing a lot of patients throughout the day, but I think it's so much nicer to be able to build that relationship where where patients feel comfortable um bringing their concerns to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I want to dive into conversation um about lifestyle medicine. And um, we haven't really had an opportunity to talk to other providers with alloy about lifestyle medicine. Um, we talked a lot about hormone therapy, um, you know, the the myths, and we debunked some of those myths and misunderstandings. And we know that hormone therapy is important, we know that it's the first line of recommendation from the menopause society, but there are people that either don't want to take it, can't take it, or um they are taking it. And as we mentioned earlier, lifestyle medicine is so critically important as well. So I'm wondering if you could if you could just share with listeners one lifestyle change that delivers the biggest impact, what would it be? Sleep.

SPEAKER_00:

Number one, um, especially, you know, sleep gets completely disrupted in menopause for so many patients. Um, and it's the small disruptions. It's not the like, oh my gosh, I have full-on insomnia. I can't, I haven't had a good night's sleep in, you know, weeks to months. It's the, oh, well, that I think that that was just related to this, but you know, I got four hours of sleep here and I got six hours of sleep there. Um, all of those things add up. Um, and the sleep component, um, it really encourages inflammation, it encourages um fatigue overall, which then is sort of a vicious cycle for um not only your movement throughout the day, but also your nutrition. Um, and it affects mood. Uh, it absolutely can affect um, you know, how well you're functioning just uh at a baseline level. So it's probably one of the top things that I sort of start the conversation with patients on, um, especially if they're looking more to um, you know, non-hormonal ways to to look at their symptoms.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Is there is there a recommended um number of hours of sleep that we should be getting in midlife?

SPEAKER_00:

Typically, um the the general recommendation is seven to eight hours at baseline. Um now I can't even tell you the last time that I got like a full eight to ten hours of sleep, but um, even more than eight hours is actually very is much more reasonable as far as um really seeing that difference. Um what I talk to patients about a lot is overall sleep hygiene. I mean, we live in the the um the the era of screens, right? Um, and so um that's probably one of the number one things that I talk to patients about is just um what's your nighttime hygiene routine? Um are you watching TV in the bedroom as you're trying to fall asleep? Do you have a lot of screens on and a lot of lights on? Do you have, do you scroll through your phone or an iPad or or something like that? Um, you know, within the the last couple of hours before you're going to bed. Um, I can tell you that, you know, I give that recommendation. And then a lot of times I'm doing that anyways because I have small kids and um that a lot of times is the only time I can get a little bit of like non-work, but you know, things accomplished um whenever they're they're put to bed. So I totally get it. Um, it's again more about consistency and change making those changes rather than oh my gosh, I didn't do it for three days in a row, so I'm just gonna sort of stop and give up. Um, it's more so about long-term um in terms of the longevity of that habit.

SPEAKER_01:

And I don't think people really understand how sleep's important, but why? I mean, it is it fixes so many things and helps prepare your body for the next day in so many ways. I don't think we've paid attention to why it's important and what it does for you. Yes. Can we talk about that real briefly?

SPEAKER_00:

It's our primary repair time. I mean, we if you think about it, we do so much damage to all of our body cells throughout the day, whether that is um because of actual physical elements and you know, being outside and um and experiencing actual like weather elements, or whether that is stress to the body with um, you know, new deadlines and um and new assignments and uh and all of that, we do so much damage and encourage so much inflammation um as far as you know the types of nutrition that we have throughout the day, um you know, the the aspects of just daily life in our city now, as far as driving um and social media and you know, just there's so many other outside elements that affect us now. Um, that sleep is our time to actually like calm the body, help repair. And if you are only doing that repair process for two, three hours of like actual good quality sleep a night, that repair process is not happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's it's so um, it's so important. And I'm I'm thinking about um just recent conversations with some women that we're talking about wine. You know, I just like to drink some wine at night to relax. I'm stressed out. Um, you know, we are in this midlife stage where we might still be caring for kids, we might be caring for adults, we might have um, you know, a high impact stress job as well. We might not be sleeping because of our hormone fluctuations or decline. So there's a lot in that, in that recipe. So a glass of wine sounds great to relax. But we know that alcohol affects our sleep. Can you just touch on that for a moment as well?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Um, I will first off say I'm I've been guilty of it previously. So yep, yep. So it's this is not like a, oh my gosh, you absolutely shouldn't be doing this. And if you are, you're terrible kind of thing. That's not at all. Um, we all kind of have that um like a similar struggle and a similar experience. It really alcohol overall really affects the quality of sleep. So it um you are not going to have nearly as many hours of quality sleep. You may not get um into that good deep REM sleep um as frequently. Um, and then on top of that, it really affects, especially for my patients who are going through perimenopause and menopause, um, that temperature regulation. Um, it really affects that. So I see a drastic difference in hot flushes, night sweats um when I don't have alcohol the night before. So um, so it's it really it makes a huge difference um and you don't necessarily notice it. It's not something that just um unless you maybe you're on hormone therapy and have like not had a hot flash in a while, and then you experience that. Um, a lot of times we sort of excuse it into other things. Um and so it's not necessarily uh it's very subtle. It's it doesn't necessarily hit you all at once.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, sleep's tough, but so the next the next symptom that people often complain about is brain fog and mood changes, or I talk about them. Maybe it's me that's talking about them. But um, can you talk about what's actually happening to cause that? And what are some of the ways that women can protect their brain at midlife? Like, is it exercise? Is it nutrition? Is it sleep? Like, what is it? What's happening and what can I do about it?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's all of the above. Like it is a very brain fog, I would say, is probably one of the most complex of the primary symptoms of menopause. Um, because there's so much still that we don't know about what is the actual primary cause. Um, and we really think that it is um it's a mix of all of those factors. Um, nutrition plays a huge role in that. Um, again, I think I talk about this on every single um, you know, uh webinar or anything that I do, but inflammation is so such a huge component. Um, and I think that we don't um, you know, we don't look as much at nutrition components of of causing inflammation as we do as to like outside stress sources and and um and things like that. So nutrition component, you know, all of the processed foods that we put in our body, we we may say, oh, I have a generally overall good diet, um, but a lot of the components that we're putting into our body are not those, you know, whole foods. They're not, they're they're things that have um been packaged and processed and um and we don't necessarily look at the packaging or the you know the label before we put it in our bodies. So that's not to say that you can't ever have those, but it's more so again, the consistency of um of those components and and adding those. Um I think uh exercise in general, um, again, sort of a vicious cycle because if you are not getting sleep and fatigued throughout the entire day, that is not motivation to get any kind of exercise in, right? Um, what I oftentimes will talk to my patients about is just movement. It's not about exercise. It's not about getting a new gym membership. It is about, you know, I have, I don't know if you guys have the um Apple Watch, but they still, I still have the reminders, even though I sometimes ignore them, um, of like, you haven't stood in an entire hour. Like you need to just stand up, stretch, and that is movement. So I know a lot of patients get discouraged because they think, oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed. I need to like start doing resistance training, but what does that mean? Um, I need to start lifting weights, but I don't want to, I don't have time to join the gym. Um, and a lot of the conversation that I have in terms of movement with my patients is what can you do in a room that's like a six by six foot room? You can do a full workout, only body weight in just that size of room. Um, and it's a lot of times about getting um really having those options of creativity and you can do repetitive movements. It doesn't have to be this like amazing workout that you've come up with or that you saw on YouTube. It is just about movement itself.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I love that. I um I teach yoga because I love, I love it, keeps me doing yoga. Um, just once a week, but it's um it's the I call it the Keurig movement moment. Yes. What can I do in these two minutes while my Keurig coffee is brewing? Right. I love that. Um they add up. It's your habit stacking, right? But um, if you think about it that way, right? I'm brewing my coffee. What can I do? Right? I can do push-ups on the stump, I can do push-ups off the counter, I can, right? It's just those little things. We can do it, right? I can stand on one leg, I can do squats, right? Exactly. That's ridiculous, but it's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

While you're brushing your teeth, like you can do so much movement-wise. Um, I I actually just had this conversation um with a colleague. I I said, you know, I do um uh like counter push-ups while I'm waiting for my shower to warm up. Um so it's easy, small things like that, that you just kind of need that sort of boost or trigger to say, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna make it happen. Um, and I think that's kind of the toughest part is just getting past the overwhelm of I need to do a full workout and do it in workout clothes. That's probably my other biggest thing is that I tell patients, you do not eat have ever have to step foot out of your pajamas if you don't want to, and you can still get a full workout in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I love that. And it doesn't cost anything, right? Your body weight doesn't cost anything. Um, exactly. Yeah. You know, um, we've we've talked about nutrition, or you've mentioned nutrition often in this conversation, and I think that that can be a really confusing topic for um women that are going through menopause as well, because there's so much information out there. Eat, you know, eat X amount of protein, or the Mediterranean diet is better, or intermittent fasting is good, or it's not good. Can you talk in general terms what good nutrition, and I don't like to use the word good or bad, but healthy nutrition looks like at this stage of life?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I it is a very um it's a it can be a very uh touchy topic for a lot of patients because there's so much stigma related to it. Most of my patients have tried one, two, three, or four different dietary patterns. Um, what I tend to focus on is sort of what the OBC Medicine Association also focuses on, which is sort of that plant forward dietary approach. Um, and again, we've kind of talked about it in other aspects. It's more the consistency portion. So what I talk to patients about because they ask me, well, do you think intermittent fasting would be good for me? And we go through their day and what their day looks like. Um, and I will tell patients, like, based on what you're telling me and the minimal times you have to actually get good nutrition in and what you're maybe gonna do consistently, I don't think that intermittent fasting is a good option for you or a smart option for you if we're trying to really focus on actually getting in the nutrition. Um, because a lot of a lot of my patients are um night shift workers and maybe they have way different times that they're eating compared to their family, and they still want to have that family aspect. So it's taking all those things into consideration, but I would say consistency is the biggest um uh emphasis that I place on it, and then also that plant forward thinking. Um, not everyone is interested in eating a Mediterranean diet, not everybody likes fish or can eat fish, right? So um, so really trying to take those components, it's why it's a very nutrition is a very personalized process for each of my patients. Um, because what works for you is not gonna work for somebody else. Um, and for me, it's more about figuring out, um, you know, taking into consideration your lab evaluation too, and saying, hey, this this type of diet um may work good, work, work well for you short term, but probably not going to be the healthiest for you long term. Um, so what do you think about that? Do you think that you want to try it and we can always readjust, or do you want to start on something that is sort of for the long haul? Um, and so it's really it, it's such a personalized conversation for each patient. And that's why I would never say a blanket statement like um intermittent fasting is the way to go, or Mediterranean diet works for absolutely everyone. Um, because in reality, it's all about having that conversation about what's going on, what what do we think is going to work best for you?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay, we're gonna switch gears. I because we could talk about nutrition, I could talk about nutrition for the whole, you know, days, but yeah, um. Talk research has shown that talking about menopause and your symptoms uh helps to lower the symptoms. And um whether that's in community or whether that's in therapy. And the menopause society says that uh cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the great ways to help with menopause symptoms, but a lot of doctors are not talking about that. Can you have to kind of talk about the sort of the therapy aspect of it, the community aspect of it, how that helps support a lifestyle that you're trying to create during this time? Because I think that that um it might be j more scary to figure out cognitive behavioral therapy than it is to figure out hormone replacement therapy, you know, because people, there's some there's a stigma there too, as you're looking at the mental health uh issues around this time. And I just would love to hear about that because growing research says that men menopause and mental health have a very close connection. And how can people find that sort of emotional well-being during this time?

SPEAKER_00:

I love that you brought that up as a point because I think that for the most part, a lot of us would a lot of us as healthcare providers would probably tell you that we got very little, if any, training on what cognitive behavioral therapy is and how to how to best implement that, um, even if it's in small portions for your patients. I think we generally um uh especially those of us who are who have sort of taken on the um the interest in menopause and menopause giving good menopause care. Um, I think we generally incorporate some of those aspects into our care plan. Um, it's really about what is um what is motivating a patient to change, um, and then um helping them craft a plan that is going to um that's going to long term um help to implement that change, right? So it it that might involve medications, that might involve um uh just like therapy and counseling. And um, and I I want to say that that's not I wish that it wasn't such a taboo thing to talk about because mental health and mood are such a huge component of perimenopause and menopause. I mean, and it's what I try to reiterate to my patients is that it's biological. It is, it is hormonal. It's not just that you're um, you know, being rude or or, you know, oh, she's just a woman kind of thing. I I I hate that conversation because it it really is a biological fluctuation that contributes to a lot of those um, those symptoms. I think it's really interesting that a lot of providers are 100% willing to hand out anti-anxiety medications and antidepressants for symptoms that a lot of times are related to menopause. But we have this taboo discussion of, well, I don't think you're a candidate for hormone therapy and here's why, even for patients who are excellent candidates. Um, so I I think it's just really having that conversation is um is so important. Um, and making it so that it's not a um, it's not a, I think this is just your mood conversation, but looking at it in in terms of whole health.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And and I think that's one of the reasons why women need to be informed when they go in of here's the things that I know about menopause, here's what I'm thinking I want to do. There are some solutions, and I want to get your you know, your thoughts, because this is what I want, right? Own your body and own your agency to go figure out what the right things are. So I I think that's a starting point, right?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, we don't know what we don't know what we want or what we need. Um giving it much thought, um, you know, caring for others and always putting others first. So, Kim, all Kim, you're so good at sliding that in and every single conversation that we have because it is important um to ask yourself, what do I want and what do I need? And what's what am I gonna go in asking for? Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think sometimes the the what do I want question, the answer a lot of times is just I just want to feel better. I just want to feel like myself again. Um, and again, that's um it's a tall order to do in one visit, right? But um, but I think just coming in um and having that that curiosity um is so, so important. Um, you know, I never shy away from my patients who come in and say, well, I Googled, or this is what I've seen on social media. Um, I welcome those because that is how that's how our society gets a lot of our health information now. Um, that's a lot of times why we're on social media trying to give good quality education and information for patients. Um but I welcome that because I am I'm very comfortable in having those conversations and trying to sort of bust the myths versus giving them good, give giving them validation that, hey, that was a really great question to ask. Um, and here is how we can address that too.

SPEAKER_02:

So good. Can I ask you as I'm thinking about um the care that that you give? And and honestly, I I'm sitting here thinking, gosh, I'd love to have you as my doctor. Um but really truly, I I love your approach. And I don't think that all women have access to it. I know they don't have access, and there's definitely um uh inequity in the healthcare space, especially the menopause space. And I'm wondering if you could give your opinion on how we might close the gaps in menopausal care for women who can't afford that specialized treatment. Um, or or how do how do women of you know that help exists?

SPEAKER_00:

I I actually think that uh a lot of um our sort of big experts in this space are doing a really great job of just getting the word out, getting that education out. Um I, you know, I might be a bit of an optimist, but I do think that um that social media is a great way to get those little sound bites of um just information that you may not have thought about that they that patients can then take to um, you know, the one visit that they get a year or or every six months kind of thing. Um I love that we are encouraging um healthcare providers outside of only women's health to to take an interest um and to really involve themselves and invest themselves into this care. Um, I tend to be somebody who says that anybody who is taking care of women in any capacity should know this. They they should feel comfortable and understand the process of menopause and what's happening outside of, oh, your hormones go down. You know, like that is not at all. That is just a scratch on the surface and not at all the full picture. Um, and I think that we're seeing a lot more, um, especially um, you know, primary care endocrinologists, um, I've seen rheumatologists who have taken an interest now too. You know, like it's just, I think it affects so many aspects of women's health that if you're taking care of women, you you should really try to at least educate yourself on the baseline.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And I know um digital health care uh plays a part in closing that gap as well. I mean, Alan obviously digital health care and um there's a need for that. There's a real need for that to reach individuals that don't have access to a physical location. The convenience alone is making it more accessible for a lot of people. So I just want to as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. Virtual care is um, I'm really hoping that um, you know, we're able to continue as much virtual care access as we can. Um, I think, especially in our society, we are we are a very mobile tech savvy society in general. So um, so being able to get that care to people who maybe live three, four hours away from their nearest provider. And that provider might not even be interested in or um provide that type of care, right? Um, and then what happens if you have a visit scheduled six months out and then if something happens and that visit has to be rescheduled? It's another three to four months usually for getting you in. So um, so being able to offer that care has been, I think, really a game changer for for women. Um, it also I think is getting people talking about it more because um and you know, it was something that we, you know, my mom's generation, they they never talked about it ever. Um and just having the conversation now that I am a you know menopause practitioner, I'm like, oh my gosh, you you struggled so much. You um you were in misery and we like nobody knew. So I think it's um I think it's doing a really great service for patients as far as getting them the care they need, but then also getting their convert the conversations out there.

SPEAKER_01:

And what would you say? Because I've talked to many women who are like, how can they ever help me virtually? Like I need to be in person so they can see me and understand what's going on. How could a virtual care person help me during this time?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think that it's so much your care is so much more than um than like coming in, taking a full day off of work a lot of times, and waiting for an hour just to be seen for 10 minutes, right? Like I think it's um there's so much, so many aspects of um of menopause care and that and really overall health care that can be done digitally. Like I that's what I love about um that aspect of care. Now, obviously, a public exam is a very different story, but um, but really for the most part, so much of that care can be done virtually. Um, that I think that, and I think that practitioners are seeing that as well, you know. Like I think that they're realizing that you don't have to have your schedule full of people who are waiting in the waiting room and can still deliver excellent high quality care.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. My doctor is 10 minutes up the road, and I would much rather sit and have a visit like this versus two hours, right? Even 10 minutes up the road, it could be a two hours out of my day. So exactly lost productivity from work or whatever else I might be doing to take the time to go in when it could be taken care of virtually like this. So definitely a benefit.

SPEAKER_00:

I also see a lot of patients who um have had poor experiences with the healthcare system. And so they're a little um a little more shy to really engage in the healthcare system. So I actually think doing virtual care and for them to be in their own environment that's really so much more comfortable for them can be very um encouraging and very disarming towards the healthcare system. So I think it really just gets patients more engaged with their care as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's great. That's a great point. I'm I'm wondering if we can um ask you a question because we have an answer, but we always like to ask others what their opinions are. When you think about a menopause-friendly workplace or a menopause smart workplace, whatever we want to call it, what do you think that looks like in the next year, two years, five years? What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I think that the education component is one of the most important things. So having your um, you know, so-called people at the top, um, understanding that if you have any female in your workplace, that it's uh it's a reality and it's not a um it's not a taboo topic, but it is a guarantee that that someone in on your team uh is going to have an experience of some kind, um whether that is to the extreme or pretty minimal. Um, but having that education for them in place is so important. Um, and then really being able to um to incorporate that into how the the workplace functions. So um, you know, if you're in a meeting and you get just drenched in hot flushes, night sweats, not feeling like not making it um a an environment where you feel like you have to just sit there and sweat through your clothes. Um, I think just being able to say, you know what, I need to take a second um and you know, uh and address this. And again, that kind of goes back to the education component and being able to be proactive about that and say, oh my gosh, like let's get you the help you need. Like, do you need to take a break? Like um, an understanding that it's going to be much more productive of a day if we can actually address it than if somebody is taking like a full full day or half day off work because they are embarrassed or or need to go home. So yeah, normal culture culture change. Right. Yes, yes. The culture change is huge.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, as we wrap things up, and we've talked about brain health and a little bit on heart health and um, you know, bone health and all those things that are really important for lifestyle changes with all the things that we've been talking about. What's one sort of mind shift that helps women w move from sort of surviving and coping during this time to thriving at this stage in their life?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, a mind shift. I mean, I think just generally that um that we should be looking at this as a time of empowerment for um prevention. So because it's not, I I want it, I really am hoping that menopause care sort of shifts from um having to treat things um six months down the road, a year down the road, multiple years down the road, to a okay, let's have the conversation early so that you are able to have the tools at your fingertips to say, okay, I definitely think this is perimenopause. I don't think I'm crazy. Um, I need to get help now, um, instead of sitting at that baseline, like low level of misery for however long that you do. So um, so I think just the mindset of this is a time to really be empowered to prevent rather than to play catch up later.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that empowered prevention. And we often talk about like while you're just starting to get into this, go find your team. Yeah, go find your doctor, go find your physical therapist, go, you know, go find your your cognitive behavioral therapist so that when you get the information and you start working with your doctor on this, that you've got a full team ready to help you with all those lifestyle changes that help you feel good rather than have you feel bad. Because you don't have to suffer.

SPEAKER_02:

You don't have to suffer. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And I have I hear that still regularly where patients will say, Well, I just don't know if my symptoms are bad enough.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I'm like bad enough. Yeah, you're having a symptom, like it's bad enough. You don't, yeah. What level of suffering is is okay, right? It's okay or not okay. Where's the bar? Who set the bar? We don't have to suffer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think those in generations below Gen Gen X are gonna even bust this out, even though it'll be like, yes, this is BS. I mean, yes, my grandmother and my mother suffered through this. We don't need to do this to live a full and happy and healthy and you know, active life if if you want to, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I hear it regularly. Yes, I hear it regularly. Patients say, I can't believe I waited so long. I know. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm one of the I think sometimes we don't even realize how po how bad we feel until we don't. And then, you know, it's hindsight, we're like, oh my goodness, I really did feel miserable for that long. Um, and I could have, right? I could have felt better all of this time. My daughter has a list. She's uh 22. She has a list of all of her blood work that she needs at certain ages and when you have actual estrogen and when you don't have to suffer. Um, but that's why we get up and do what we do every day. Yes. So um and thank you for doing the same. Um, we asked our guests one the same question uh before we end, and we didn't prep you for this, so take a minute if you need to, but I'm wondering what the best piece of advice you've ever received has been.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, best piece of advice I've ever received. Um I think it would probably be um take take others' advice into consideration, but still follow your gut, even if that goes against the advice of what everyone is giving you. Because you're going to get so much advice from and sometimes unsolicited um from so many people. Um, but you know you, you know your body, you know it's in your heart. Um, and so I think that's probably been that's really been the way that I've functioned for a lot of my life and and my a lot of my professional choices as well. Um, it can be very scary to make changes. Um, and especially if you have people telling you that, telling you advice that it's the wrong decision. Um but but I've followed my gut and and and you know stuck to my integrity and um and that has I think really served me well.

SPEAKER_01:

It's great advice. Because when you don't follow your gut, your gut is gonna keep bugging you until you do follow it. So you may as well just follow it right away.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, yes. We know our bodies best, right? We do. Yes, we do exactly. We know our bodies best, and it's such a powerful note to end on. So thank you for that advice and for passing that along, for being with us today, for your knowledge, for your expertise. And listeners, until we meet again, go find joy in the journey.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, Dr. Han.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Bye.

Head Shot

April Haberman

Co-host
Head Shot

Kim Hart

Co-host