Episode 60: Hormones And Hidden Neurodivergence

Menopause can feel like you woke up in a different brain, but what if the real story is that your brain has always worked this way and hormones are simply turning up the volume? We sit down with leadership coach and R.E.A.L Women founder Chellie Adler to talk about the often-missed link between perimenopause, menopause, and neurodivergence, especially ADHD in women and autism in women who were never identified in childhood.

We dig into what happens when estrogen shifts disrupt dopamine regulation and executive functioning, why your carefully built “scaffolding” of coping tools can suddenly collapse, and how that can show up as distractibility, emotional reactivity, sensory overload, and the infamous string of “side quests” that derails the day. Chellie also explains why many women finally recognize the pattern when their kids get evaluated, and how to think about screening tools like the Adult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS) as a starting point rather than a diagnosis.

From there, we zoom out to the workplace: masking fatigue, burnout, and why so many experienced midlife women leave roles they’re actually great at. We talk practical supports for individuals (qualified evaluation, therapy with ADHD/autism training, medication options, executive function support, and how hormone therapy may help some women) and concrete accommodations employers can make, from lighting and temperature to benefits and culture.

If this conversation hits home, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review so more women can find the support and language they’ve been missing. What’s one change that would make your workday easier right now?

Chellie is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) who specializes in supporting women navigating ADHD and AuDHD, particularly those who have spent years feeling overlooked or misunderstood while appearing “fine” on the outside. Her work focuses on helping women better understand their brains through a neurodivergent-affirming lens so they feel validated, empowered, and supported.

At Everlasting Wellness LLC, Chellie provides ADHD assessments and therapy using a trauma-informed, client-centered approach. She integrates cognitive behavioral therapy, executive functioning skill-building, and practical strategies to help clients manage anxiety, burnout, perfectionism, and major life transitions.

Earlier in her career, Chellie worked across multiple areas of human services in New York, including at-risk youth, geriatric mental health, community colleges, and DOJ/OMH collaborations. Today, she is especially passionate about helping high-achieving individuals who carry significant responsibilities yet feel stretched thin find clarity, resilience, and sustainable ways to thrive.

Website: https://www.kristinswansonconsulting.com/

MiDOViA LINKS:

Website: https://www.midovia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymidovia
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/midovia
Email Us: info@midovia.com

MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.

The information, including but not limited to, text, graphics, images & other material contained on this website are for informational purposes only. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. 

Transcript

Welcome And Topic Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your trusted source for information about menopause and midlife. Join us each episode as we have great conversations with great people. Tune in and enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hey, welcome back to the Medovia Podcast, We We, where we explore the intersection of midlife health, leadership, and workplace longevity. Today we're diving into the topic that many women are only beginning to recognize and talk about openly: the connection between neurodiverse hormones and midlife. And for many women, ADHD or autism is not identified in childhood, but emerges or becomes more visible in their 40s and 50s as hormone shifts affect focus, emotional regulation, and execution functioning. And for high-achieving women who have spent decades masking and performing at high levels, this stage of life can be both confusing and powerful. So joining us today is Shelly Adler, a leadership coach, speaker, and the founder of REAL Women, a platform dedicated to helping women unlock their potential, navigate burnout, and build lives and careers that reflect who they truly are. Through her work, Shelly supports high-performing women who are navigating identity shifts, leadership pressures, and the invisible expectations that often come with success. And in today's conversation, we will explore what happens when neurodivergence intersects with midlife, how hormones amplify challenges around focus and regulation, and what this means for women who are leading teams, building careers, and trying to stay healthy and resilient through this transition. Shelly, I'm really excited to have you here today. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Thank you. I'm really glad to be here and spread more awareness and hopefully empower more women on this journey.

Hormones Pull Down Old Scaffolding

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah. I've, as I said before we went to air, I've been reading a lot about this lately, this ADHD connection in midlife. And, you know, we talk often about how menopause and cognitive changes happen during this time. But how does ADHD and autism intersect with hormonal shifts during this phase?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Well, the biggest piece I think to highlight is that this is the reason this comes to light, the reason that this is more apparent in this transition of perimenopause and menopause time is because it persisted beforehand. But the ability to mask it, the ability to hide the symptomology goes away. Because as the estrogen and luteinizing hormones drop when you're in perimenopause and then through the menopause process, it feels so different because these scaffolds and structures that women had created to support themselves fall away. These resources that they had relied on for decades are no longer accessible to them. And now suddenly you feel like your body is not your own, your mind is not your own. The way you could move through your life suddenly changes and becomes a thousand times harder. And it's unfortunately at the intersection of when women are in these mid to senior level positions in their professions. It is when they are hitting their stride, when they are understanding their managerial and their leadership styles, and they are hitting it because just like anyone, they can be amazing at their jobs. But then suddenly these cognitive structures that supported them are no longer accessible. They are forgetful. They are scattered. They have short fuses. Their frustration tolerance disappears. Their filters, their regulatory ability just is gone. They can't sit still. The clothes that they previously loved are now weights and hair shirts. And it's just a really difficult transition that sees thousands of women leave the workspace. I know you've talked about it in several of your talks before, about how women in menopause are leaving the workspace because these workspaces are not set up for their success. And this is just another extension of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah. And I think it's just thank you for giving us a few examples of what that looks like in real life. I think that it's important for our audience to understand that. And if I hear you correctly, what you're saying is that the tools that they have built that allow them to be successful in the workplace no longer work any longer, right? The tools that they had set up no longer work. So they're leaving the workforce or perhaps they're struggling. We hear that a lot from women in Manipause. We're just struggling and we're just managing and trying to get through the day. Why do you think beyond the out-of-body experience that they're experiencing and the tools that they're noticing no longer work? Why are so many high-performing women recognizing that this is tied to menopause? I mean, how do they unpack that? How do they identify that? What's the aha moment?

Dopamine Seeking And Executive Function Crashes

SPEAKER_00 5:24

The biggest one, the most consistent one that I have seen in my profession is their kids. When their kids are getting diagnosed, when they are filling out, whether you have had this experience or professionally or personally, you're to go through the process of an ADHD or autism evaluation, there's a lot of documentation. There's a lot of questions, whether from the provider or surveys that you have to fill out. And as they're filling them out, these clients that I'm working with and patients that I see are like, this is me. This is my experience. And we'll invariably have the conversations of have you ever been evaluated for ADHD? Have you ever talked about neurodivergence? And as we talk about it, you cannot use like the Vineland is a very popular, publicly sourced document that's used for children, but the ASRS is uh one that would be for adults. It's a self-report. And I ask them these questions, but you have to alter the presentation because do you get up very often when sitting is required? And for many 40, 50, 60-year-old women, they're like, oh no, of course not. Like if if you're a religious person sitting in church, the expectation is that you sit down. As a as a midlife woman, we sit down. We know that that's appropriate. So I ask, do you desire to get up? Do you have the urge to do that? Not that you do engage in those activities, but does the desire exist within you? Because we are social creatures. We have been shaped through social sanctioning, whether through a parent, a teacher, a religious leader, whatever that is, to understand, okay, nope, nope, moving, fidgeting is not okay. So I need to sit still. I want to. I'm jumping out of my seat in my head, but my body is sitting still. So for women, the presentation of our neurodivergence is often very shaped by our lived experience. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

That's different. It's fascinating. Yeah, it's really fascinating. And what occurred to me while you were talking, it's like, okay, we have fully developed executive functioning skills, which would make us get up if we didn't have those fully, you know, if we didn't have that, that kids don't have, but that we're experiencing a difference in our brain now that is impacting this. So let's unpack this a little bit so that I can fully understand. Estrogen plays a role in executive functioning and dopamine regulation and focus, which I imagine is, if not the one of the key things that is happening in the brain right now, to have some of this scaffolding, as you say, go down. Talk us through that. Like, what is happening in the brain that is sort of now causing us to um to want to get up, as you say, or not be able to focus, or gosh, show up in my room and in my kitchen and try and remember, like, oh, I was gonna do that, but then I go over here and do this instead, right? What's happening for people to really understand? Like the brain is changing.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Well, just like for women when they are having children or become pregnant, and then that postpartum section, when the hormonal shifts, when the estrogen goes up and down, our ability to access dopamine in for people with neurodivergence, typically with ADHD, there is a deficit of dopamine. So when the estrogen goes down, that dopamine-seeking behavior is amplified, meaning that, and and I have a wonderful clip or a little meme that talks about cheap dopamine versus real dopamine, because invariably doom scrolling, junk food eating, uh shopping, these kinds of cheap dopamine hits become like high because this is I'm chasing dopamine. I need the dopamine. Let me get there. And as you are recognizing, okay, I need these dopamine hits to be okay, your behavior is shifting. And like when you talked about the change in executive functioning, I just walked into this room and now I don't know why I'm here, but I see that the dishes aren't done. Let me start to do the dishes. Oh, but wait, I don't have any clean dish towels. Let me go to see. Oh, now the laundry's not done. So let me come back. And then you circle back. You've had seven different side quests and you never even got the first task completed. Yes. That that is that is the function of when our hormones drop out like that. And then you're like, geez, I'm a crazy person. I've been walking around here for two hours and I got nothing done.

unknown 10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah. Well, and and we're, you know, we're talking about right now anyone that's experiencing menopause, right? Our estrogen declines. We have this happen. But when estrogen declines, what happens neurologically for women who may already have ADHD or autistic traits? Well, you talked a little bit about that, but can you give us um, can you dive deeper into that and give us a greater understanding? Because I really think it's important for our audience to understand because it's manifesting differently.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Absolutely. Absolutely. The the hormonal shifts, the drop in the estrogen and the luteinizing hormone that happens in, well, let's rephrase we got to do it correctly, because in perimenopause, it is not just the drop. Perimenopause is the roller coaster. That's when the ovaries and the pituitary gland are kind of fighting and the amounts of hormone release are going to be fluctuating. And so sometimes you're going to have enough estrogen and everything will work and the machine will keep going. So you'll feel like, okay, maybe it was a bad week, it was a bad month, whatever. And perimenopause, as we all know, can last quite a long time. So then you begin to build structures in place to support yourself with that in terms of lists or apps and all of these different things. You rely on what previously was very successful, like willpower, I will remember, to do lists, all of these different cognitive scaffoldings that we talked about that built your career ladder. And so then once you hit menopause, which I'm sure your listeners already know, is that single point in time with 12 months without a period, that's when the ovaries effectively have decided that they're going to bottom out with the estrogen level. And then that's when the neuroplasticity stops. That is when those cognitive changes that were going, that ebbing and flowing of estrogen flow, you then reach like this is where your body is. This is what your estrogen level is going to be. And you your brain has to then reset to, okay, this is how I'm going to function. This is how I'm going to process the dopamine that you do have. Does that make sense? I feel like I just muddied the body. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

No, I it does make sense. I'm and I'm wondering, um, you know, if we have, if I am someone, let's just say that I I have um ADHD. I'm moving through perimenopause, right? My hormones are fluctuating, fluctuating. The tools that I used before may not be as helpful because my estrogen is fluctuating, right? I feel crazy, uh, not quite sure what tools to use. I reach menopause. So my estrogen level bottoms out. Is it I the question that I'm going to ask is is it uh is that a point where if I have ADHD, I'm now leveled out and this is my new reality. So are you seeing that people with ADHD are better able to cope once they reach menopause? So is it the perimenopause stage that it is the most difficult from the clients that you're seeing within your practice? Just a curious question, more than anything.

Late Diagnosis And Rewriting The Story

SPEAKER_00 13:24

The most successful in terms of individual resolution, ability to attain joy and happiness and peacefulness inside their lives are individuals that were wondering like what was happening to me. Like, am I going crazy? Am I failing at life and these kinds of horrible things that we say to ourselves? And in supporting these clients to discover for many of them for the first time that they weren't neurodiverse, that they had ADHD, they had autism, all of these different things. And then to unpack what that meant for them, and then to resolve how can I live successfully with this diagnosis? Like, is this a death sentence? Because there have been clients that I supported that had this framework around neurodiversity that, you know, like someone with autism needs to be in an institution. I actually had a client say that in my office. And I looked at her and I was like, so I should be in an institution. And she was like, What? And I was like, I have autism. My doctor diagnosed me a year and a half ago. And she was just like, Well, well, wait a minute. And I was just like, it's just your understanding and where you want to be. Do you want to hold on to this idea? Or do you have the ability to maybe look at this a different way? Because this is the reality that you're inside of. Hormonal shifts for autistic women do lead to cognitive overload, social fatigue, sensory sensitivity. The lower estrogen for women with ADHD enhances distractability, task initiation, difficulty, emotional reactivity. So all of these different aspects that once you learn, like this is not you, your personality, these are parts of the way your brain works. Can you be okay with how your brain works now?

Workplace Membership Message From Medovia

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, it's fascinating. Quick pause here because this matters. Medovia is proud to be the first and only organization in the U.S. offering a menopause-friendly membership and accreditation for workplaces. We're not a trend. We are not check the box benefit. We're a movement for lasting change. We're helping organizations of all sizes shift culture, support their people, and retain experienced talent. Whether you're looking just to get started or ready to lead the way, we've built a roadmap rooted in best practices from hundreds of employers across the globe. If you want to learn more, head to menopausefriendlyus.com and find out how to become a workplace that doesn't just talk the talk, but walks it. Because menopause is a workplace issue and the best organizations know it.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

So how do people distinguish between normal midlife brain fog and something more systemic, like you know, neurodiversity? Because I the what you described all over the place happens to me every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Well, the the differencing, the differencing, oh my goodness, see the the reality is that the the structures that they relied on before, the the ideas that allowed you to be successful in your 20s and 30s and 40s, depending on you know where you are in your chronology, if if that worked before, but doesn't work now, looking starting to look at that and then starting to pull it apart, because to to just say, well, I have brain fog, I'm in perimetopause, I must have ADHD, you're taking a lot of leaps right there. So so giving yourself permission that it's on the table, it is something to look at, but then you have to really start to pull apart because if you had never had the ability to walk into a room and remember while you were there, or walk into a room and you only ever forget while you're there. It is the the pivot and the change and then breaking it apart. Like, yes, if you if you only focus on brain fog, I guess to to answer your question in a tangential way, there there, if you're only using the metric of brain fog, it's it's hard to say whether it's ADHD or perimetopause. There has to be other things to look at. It's not just one symptom.

Masking At Work And Burnout

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah. No, that makes sense. I I want to move the conversation to corporate environment if we can. I'm wondering, many midlife women um describe masking, right? The desk decades of masking in their corporate environment. What does that look like for women?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

The the definition of masking is the suppression of neurodivergent traits in order to conform, in order to conform to your environment. So whether that is, well, and and I wanna I wanna make sure that we are with full disclosure that women on average mask in the workplace because we live in the world of men. Women have learned how to speak men, but we absolutely live in the world of men. So we mask our uncomfortability often. The off-color jokes, the too cold in the summertime, too hot in the wintertime office environment, the way the lighting is, all of those things, women tolerate them because you don't want to make waves. You as a woman in the workplace, you don't want to be the mouthy woman, you don't want to make trouble, all of those things. That's masking. Beyond that, neurodivergent masking, the overhead lighting, the lack of temperature control, the over-sense, the overstimulating sensory environment, those are all, if you tolerate them, even though it makes you grind your teeth, that's masking. And unfortunately, as women in their 40s and 50s who are high performers, they're going to start to encounter masking fatigue, where you have swallowed it down and swallowed it down for decades, that now you just you got nothing left. You've got nothing left for it. And this is, and when I'm referencing teaching again, but when I was on the college campuses, I would go to my colleagues' offices and the women always had lamps. There were always floor lamps and desk lamps because the big light. Neurodivergent women do not want the big light. It was the easiest tell in the world because you could go into the men's men's office, and I would ask her, I'd be like, doesn't that light bother you? Like, what are you talking about? It's a light. And as opposed to if I walked into a female colleague's office and I turned on the light, they'd be like, Yeah, too much light.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Yeah. Too much light. It's interesting because you took the thought right out of my head. You answered the question that was in my bubble. I'm wondering, gosh, it just sounds exhausting masking for year after year, you know, decade after decade. Um it's exhausting, I'm sure, that that burnout rate is significant for senior leaders.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Oh, absolutely. Women leave the workplace in the perimenopause and menopause state. The the statistic I read was, I think, from 2019. Yeah, right before the pandemic. And on average, in the United States, 85,000 women between the ages of 40 and 50 leave the workplace.

unknown 21:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

And obviously, you know, everyone has their own story, but that's a pretty specific age window. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

One in 10. One in 10 women leave the workplace. And one in, you know, that's it, that is um so much financial implication to the company and to our economy and to their um retirement plans. Like it's stunning. Um, but what happens to to identify when a real woman realizes her flaws were actually neurological differences? Like what you know, you talked a little bit about the person you were talking to, where is like, oh no, I don't have autism. I don't know. I mean, because that's this. But what happens when when women realize that and how do you help them?

Support Options From Therapy To HRT

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Well, we we very often have to process a lot of anger first. There's a lot, there's a lot of anger, resentment, also a lot of grief. Grief around these ideas that they spent years thinking they were too much, too loud, not disciplined enough. They were inherently less for any of the various reasons that they were masking, that there was something wrong with them. So we have to do a lot of work around processing the environments that you were in, that your emotions are valid, that you have every right to be angry that you supported a system that did not support you. And these kinds of ideas. But the beautiful part with that is the grief comes hand in hand with the liberation. That freedom, that idea that it wasn't you this whole time, it was never you. You were not flawed, you were not broken. It was the environment was not there to support you.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

I think that's interesting because you can't, you you really can't realize that until you reach midlife. There's no way you would have described to me in my 30s that all the things I was feeling wasn't me, right? It was uh I would it just wouldn't have made sense to me. And now I'm like, yeah, whatever. Who cares? Right? You're you get what you get here.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

But I can see the, I can see the grief though, right? I can see the anger, I can see the grief. And and that's normal to have to work through that with any change or new news, I guess I would call it. Um that those are normal emotions, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Absolutely. Well, any any level of transformation requires warning. You have to recognize that the ideas that you had, the thoughts that you had around it are changing. And you have to grieve it and then sweep away the rubble and keep going. Because for women that are able to recognize and embrace this new reality for themselves, they become such more powerful and empowering leaders. They are so unencumbered, they're not shackled with these internal insecurities, these doubts and fears anymore. And they are liberated to soar and to watch. Like that was why I started real, was because the the focus around, um, and I'm sorry, I didn't ever clarify real is an abbreviation for rise, empower, aspire, lead. Because I wanted more women to be able to embrace this opportunity, to be able to see how amazing they are. They always were, but they are right now today. And to because the the frame for I don't know if it was your lived experience, but when I was young, the change, the change was something to be afraid of and like, ah, your life is kind of over, you know. Yeah, you're old, you're yeah, you know, like you're dry, like the that whole maiden mother crone era. Nobody wants to be the crone. I don't want to be an old, you know, the old lady with the hood and these things. Like that was this horrible narrative that the patriarchy foisted upon us, as opposed to no, I am liberated and yeah, I am dangerous to the status quo because nothing you can say can hold me back now.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

So let's talk about that. I yeah, let's talk about that because I love um empowering women. And it sounds like neurodivergence can actually be a competitive advantage in midlife. Hundreds of because of all the reasons that you just mentioned.

Employer Accommodations And Protected Status

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Well, and the the nature of neurodivergent thinking is fabulous in its application because when neurodivergent individuals are supported, whether it is through their environment, cognitively supported, emotionally reassured, and those things, they excel at pattern recognition, systems style thinking, innovation, rapid, rapid problem solving, all of these really valuable tools that any corporation, any leader would look for in an employee, someone that you want to guide your organization, these are the people that you want. When supported appropriately, these traits are a strategic advantage.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Do you think that that that there's a uh misconception or misunderstanding from corporate leadership about neurodivergence? Just generally speaking, I mean, you when when you know all of those benefits and the skills, I I think, well, of course. Yeah, of course there's a competitive advantage, right? But do you think generally speaking that there is a misconception that that we stereotype that you know we're missing the boat?

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Um absolutely, with without question. When you but when you look at it, the realities around who makes up the C-suite, who who sits in those chairs are normally men. And men and neurodivergence looks very different than women and neurodivergence and how that neurodivergence has been supported, because very often neurodivergence in men was identified in childhood. So those supports were put in place at that time, and they either sank or swam with them. And so now, you know, 30 years later, that's already fundamentally integrated into who they are as an executive, as a human, and all of those things. Whereas these female executives did not have that support. So they are six to 10 times more powerful because they overcame without the support and they still bring those skills to the table.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah. Scrappy. That's the word that comes to mind. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

So if I am um listening to this and it's resonating a lot with me, and I'm like, totally get it, a lot like how I feel right now, honestly. But um, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do to support myself? How do I do better at work? What do I find a doctor? Like, what do I do if if I'm hearing like, yeah, this is this is something that uh that might be me?

Resources Where To Find Shelly

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Okay. Well, and as we are experiencing this, as we are becoming, as the conversations are happening, whether it's, you know, I it's it feels very weird to to almost advocate, but people watch these social media videos, and every third person has ADHD and autism and all of these things, but it brings them in the door. It brings them in the door of their primary care doctor, of a neuropsych or a psychiatric nurse practitioner. And that is a great way to start. Because if if you want the diagnosis, if you want that validation of the diagnosis, go to a professional. You need to go to a certified individual who can give you those results, because then you jump off from there. If you are not, if you are not somebody that values the diagnosis or net needs that diagnosis to move forward with these ideas, then looking at specifically executive functioning support, because right now, for if you are a midlife woman who is experiencing these changes that we're talking about, the drop in estrogen changes how the dopamine works. And so your executive functioning, even though your brain is fully formed, your executive functioning is starting to collapse because your ability to navigate the way you historically did doesn't exist and isn't available to you. So there are the availability of executive function coaching. I I am not as big a fan because the certification process isn't there. Like I'm a certified executive coach. Okay, did you take the three-week online course? You know, like there's there's a lot of variability. Yes. Be an educated consumer in how you get there. There are certification processes. As a licensed therapist, I went through the autism certification and the ADHD certification through our oversight bodies. I'm in Pennsylvania. We use PESI, they're a national organization. Um, having starting there, if you are not in any kind of talk therapy, I absolutely recommend. I think anyone over the age of 27 should have a therapist. But going to a therapist who is trained, who is certified in ADHD and autism, so that you can start to have these conversations, to look at where you feel the gaps are, what you want the support in. And then should that be a focus that you want to look at, there are stimulant medications or non-stimulant medications and stimulant medications. So for those of us with health challenges, you know, if you have a heart issue, you can't take stimulant medications. So there is something else that you can take if that's something that you feel would be beneficial. Uh, mushroom coffee, lion's mane mushrooms have been demonstrated to have extremely supportive faculties. L-theanine, um, what is the there's a there's a gum that is extremely popular with some of my clients, like neurogum. I I have not, I I this is not an endorsement of it, but some of my clients come and are like, yeah, I just chew the gum when I need to focus a little bit and I feel great. Like, that's great. So I don't think and that's I I am not a huge like you should go on medication. That's that is every individual person's decision.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Well, and on that note, what do you think about hormone therapy or um non-hormone therapy but related to menopause? Do these do these kind of does my you know estrogen patch help me in any way?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

In terms of your brain function and the ADHD symptomology, it absolutely can provide support. It it certainly can because are you doing the bioidentical hormone patches? Yeah, and it's helped with my brain fog like a million. And serious, yeah so the the reality is then that that is supplementing and supporting you in the way that your brain works so that you are able to not you're not losing the scaffolding. Yes, is is where we're going. And and for many, many women, I myself included, I am I am on progesterone for my gynecologist, and it absolutely can contribute to the success.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Interesting. Fascinating. It was a whole nother podcast altogether. What I know, I'm like, gosh, it's just fascinating. Um, what other accommodations, support, if I'm an employer, should I be thinking about um to support employees who might be having challenges? What can I do as an employer?

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Absolutely. The the big the biggest one to to be paying attention to, I think, and and dialed in, and that's I think across the board that leaders need to look at is watching for signs of burnout. Burnout is going to be usually that is the easy, easy trigger of like, oh, hey, there's something happening here that we as the leaders need to dial in and look at. We need to pay attention to something's going on here. How can I support this employee who is so valuable to me? And I want, you know, I want to keep them in there. Um, if you are seeing your subordinates or clients or whomever, are they rehearsing conversations before meetings? Do they overprepare? Are they very, very stressed out about avoiding mistakes? Do they mimic other communication styles so that they're they're suppressing their own so that they can say, okay, this is successful. Let me do this, you know, forcing eye contact so that it's almost awkward because they're so amped because they want that high performance, but the neurological cost is extreme. And so they're gonna burn out. And that's unfortunately a major cost to the organization, because here is this valuable asset, this amazing employee who is burning the candle so bright that they are not, it's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah. And as far as benefits go, I would imagine um ensuring that if uh a medication is needed, that that's paid for by insurance, that we have EAP programs for them, that there's therapy available, I would imagine all of those benefits would be beneficial as well. Is there anything I miss there?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Well, and environmental, allowing for environmental accommodations in terms of the big light, temperature changes, or you know, uh fans on the desk and these kinds of things to support the environmental, you know, to support the supports that they know. Yeah, makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

So if you were to say, what is one myth about ADHD or autism in high performing women that we meet need to dismantle? What would you say that is?

SPEAKER_00 35:26

One myth about ADHD and autism and women. Um the the easy one that I I was faced with from actually right out of a client's mouth was that they are masculine presenting. And I was just so thrown by that because I I I asked, you know, for clarification. I'm like, well, that can't be me. I don't, I what was it? I don't behave like a man, I don't dress like a man. This this idea that the ADHD and autistic traits were male traits, that this idea that the aggression, the blurting, the all of these different things that are societally societally acceptable for a man to present with are not for a woman. Because like when a man is assertive in the workplace, a woman is aggressive. And if a woman is aggressive, she's hormonal. Yes. And so these myths around understanding, like the I guess maybe the the double standard would be the biggest thing to to break down because women their neurodivergence presents completely differently than male neurodivergence. And so, oh there you go. I apologize. And the better one is women that are doing it all. The idea that women are can just do it all and that it doesn't come with a cost, that's one we need to break down because women that are holding it together, how does she do it? That she's not, she's breaking down on the inside, yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

And that's true whether you have ADHD autism or not. As a living, breathing human. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, what did we not ask you that you think is really important to our listeners that they should take in from today's conversation?

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Um, I think a big one that I want to to point out is the common patterns, the the ways that you can identify, like when you're thinking, oh, you know what? That reminds me of Sheila and and those kinds of things. Ideas around this is someone who has exceptional strategic thinking, but they have difficulty with administrative tasks. Like they are phenomenal on the brainstorming, but when it comes to doing the notes from the meeting, they just fall apart. Uh, the innovation, but they can't handle inefficient processes. Like if how how we order the paper for the copier is a flawed system and this person can't leave it alone. Sheila just keeps talking about why this is how we do it, Sheila. And she just holds on to the injustice of it or the inefficiency of it. Um, deep focus along with ability to pivot to different tasks quickly. And those kinds of things, these are all different aspects, different traits that if you can identify them, if they keep dinging for someone that you're thinking of, that's because their neurodivergence is apparent. Um, and the the easy one that is easy to dismiss is sensory fatigue. Because, like, oh, that's just how they are. Is it though? Or is it the fact that they can't tolerate the sensory stimulation, whether it's the noise, whether it is the uncomfortable chairs, or the wrong height of the chairs, or the the walk into the building and these different sensory stimulation activities, staying aware of those kinds of things will help give you, as the leader, if you're looking for who to support, looking at that. And then depending on where it is, if it then becomes a performance issue, having conversations around is this a protected status? Because autism is a protected status. Yes. So giving yourself permission to however that looks in the workplace, probably folding in HR. But if you want to keep this valuable employee recognizing those patterns and supporting them and creating a supportive environment as opposed to uh too much of a pain, put her on a pip and get her out of here.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's I mean, that's such a that's a huge that's a huge thing. And I think you alluded to the fact that work workplaces are not ready for for that. And we should be looking out for that and supporting people so that women don't have to leave.

unknown 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

A hundred percent. And that is unfortunately the the very scary reality that we are facing right now, because diversity is a, you know, who that's a that's a bad word. That's a bad word. Right. But the idea that diversity in the workplace, in terms of lighting, work structure, the these different thought processes, just diversity and how you think of what this job looks like, actually enhances the success of the workplace, enhances the mission. And if leaders are able to lean into that, they will see the absolutely wonderful effects of having a more dynamic workforce. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Shelly, it makes me think um as you're as you're listing off um some of these um characteristics, I guess, um, to recognize. Do you happen to have a checklist or do you have resources that our audience can find that might be useful?

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Oh, absolutely. I can make sure that Medovia has them. The the easiest one right off the bat, I mentioned it earlier, is the ASRS. It is the adult uh sensory recognition survey or no, adult self-report survey. Um, it is literally just questions that you go down, and it's always sometimes often never, you know, one of those types of things. And you go down, and the key piece is as you fill it out, it is not whether or not you do it, it is if you have the desire to do it. Because as middle-aged women, we have already been trained as to what is socially appropriate and what is not. Beyond that, there are other self-reports. I know the rat are, and I can give those to you. Um you can make them available to your listeners. Um, there are, it is not like these will not be diagnostic. You cannot take this and be like, see, I have ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

But self-diagnosing and right, it reflection.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

It gives you the the starts of the conversation. And then as you begin to lean in, I know in Pennsylvania, we have the Attention Deficit Disorder Society that is actually uh right outside of New York City near by me. And it is this organization that disseminates information. It is available, they have the website. I will give you the links. Right. But they are all just different resources about like how do you recognize sensory sensitivity? What does that even mean? And do I just not like wool? Am I allergic to wool, or is it a tactile issue? And these kind of realities. Yes, there are vetted resources that are available that you just don't have to rely on TikTok videos.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, we want reliable resources, yes. And where can our audience find you, Shelly?

SPEAKER_00 43:10

I am actually building a website, so ShellyAdler.com will hopefully by the end of the month be available. Okay, great. But um, you can find me on LinkedIn. And I do, I am Shelly Adler on TikTok, where I try very hard to make empowering and knowledgeable videos. Um, because unfortunately, a lot of women in this situation have had some negative outcomes. I have had to support a lot of women battling suicidal ideation, self harm, a lot of these negative cognitive spaces that people are in. And so that is my I'm using, I'm attempting to use this vehicle to reach out as support of community, of this idea that you are not. I know you guys are doing great work with Medobia and M Factor and going around and spreading the information. In Pennsylvania, we have the PA Metopause conference where I am presenting Woman Unmasked, which is a scaffolded structure to help women unpack what is going on, to help you really dive into where you are cognitively and how to be okay. Just be okay today and going forward because this is a huge upheaval. This is a time of metamorphosis for women. And it's easy to not be okay. So to trying to bring yourself to the place of, yes, I'm going through change, but I'm okay today. I'm going through change. It doesn't mean I'm broken. I'm going through change. I am not flawed as a human. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 44:50

All good reminders, right? Such important work. We get stuck sometimes for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Oh, the negative cognitions are plentiful.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Yes, they are. Um, and everybody copes in a different way. But I think knowing more about yourself as you are helping women really helps bring some clarity. So thank you for all the work that you're doing. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Thank you. You guys are are having such a broad and dynamic impact nationally and internationally. And it just is so wonderful to see because, as, you know, here, boots on the ground, meeting with women just before we sat down, I had a woman in my office who was like, nobody talked to me, nobody talked to me about menopause and what can happen. You know, the conversations she has with me are the first ones she's having about the realities. And she has been seeing doctors for 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

And it just, there is more conversation and more, more spaces that are needed. So let's both keep going.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yeah, absolutely. We will. We will. All right. So our last question in all of our podcasts is what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00 46:02

The best piece of advice I have ever received. No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

I mean, ever makes you like, you know, it's got to be the very best. But you know, one that resonates with you.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Um, it's it's a little coarse, so I apologize. I don't know if you're if your listeners will be offended, but the best piece of advice I've ever gotten is don't give a shit what anybody says. Because, and the reality is in in menopause, like I walk around with a fan in my purse right now because I am one of the women in this phase that has to have a fan, like everywhere I go. So if I'm if I'm in line at Costco, I have my fan. If I am in the waiting room at the dentist, I have my fan. And I don't care if it bothers, it's a quiet fan. I make sure to be respectful of other other people's spaces, but I'm gonna be okay. And I don't give a shit if you're bothered by it.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

It's self-care. That's self-care. Radical self-care. So there you go. And acceptance.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Yeah, absolutely. It's okay if I need a fan. And if somebody's bothered by it, it's their problem, not mine.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Not mine.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Don't own that. That's not for me to care. Uh this was a great conversation, Shelly. I feel like um maybe we have to have you back sometime because there's too much more to unpack. But um, I know that our listeners are going to appreciate the content. So thank you for being here with us today. It's been a really great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

I appreciate. I appreciate you guys taking the time. I appreciate what you do. It's it's necessary, it's vital, and let's keep going. Right?

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah, let's keep going. And audience members, until we all meet again, go find joy in the journey. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to the Medovia Menopause Podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please give it a thumbs up, subscribe for future episodes, leave a review, and share this episode with a friend. Modovia is out to change the narrative. Learn more at Medovia.com. That's M I D O V I A.com.