Buzzcast

Failing Upwards with Matt Rideout & Tom Rossi

July 08, 2022 Buzzsprout Episode 80
Buzzcast
Failing Upwards with Matt Rideout & Tom Rossi
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

While Alban and Kevin are out, Jordan has Buzzsprout Facebook Group Moderator, Matt Rideout, and the Co-Founder of Buzzsprout, Tom Rossi, on the show. In this episode, the hosts hash out the results of Sounds Profitable's "The Creators" report, discover how to get featured in Spotify, & chat about Reddit's new feature: Reddit Talks!

Thanks to Matt Rideout for guesting on this episode & telling us all about being in live radio!  You can find his podcast, Wax Wednesday, here: https://lnns.co/-X9lUBrtw4s


BUZZCAST UPDATES
Thanks to Claire for writing in about your experience at the Podcast Show in London! Check out Claire's podcast, The Silent Why!
https://www.thesilentwhy.com/

Buzzsprout Ads payout has rolled out!
https://buzzsprout.com/ads

THE CREATORS BY SOUNDS PROFITABLE
https://soundsprofitable.com/article/the-creators-us-2022

PODCAST CREATION DECLINING
https://www.listennotes.com/podcast-stats/#growth

HOW TO GET FEATURED IN SPOTIFY
form: https://airtable.com/shrd0oasoTLijGglG
blog post: https://podcasters.spotify.com/blog/how-to-get-your-podcast-featured-on-spotify

REDDIT TALKS
https://www.reddit.com/talk

ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING
https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building

Thanks to guest hosts, Matt Rideout and Tom Rossi @tomrossi7!

After Hours Entrepreneur: Your Guide to Profitable, 6-Figure Years
Quit your job. Make more money.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Contact Buzzcast

Thanks for listening & keep podcasting!!

Tom:

It was so easy that people didn't believe that it was doing what we said it was doing, because otherwise they don't believe you. And then the email support I did it. But now what do I need to do? And you're like, nothing.

Unknown:

I did it, did it do it?

Tom:

Did it do it? Did it but did it?

matt:

Did it do it? Because I did it, but I didn't see it, do it.

Tom:

There's a lot of doing happening, and they just don't believe it.

Matt:

Everything's being done once you tell it to be done.

Jordan:

Joining me on this episode of Buzzcast, I have Matt Rideout, and Matt, you are a moderator of the Facebook community group. And you're supposed to be on the episode with Jonathan Swenson, where things got a little dicey. And unfortunately, you weren't there for that.

Matt:

Or fortunately, I wasn't there for that. Depending on how you look at it, I guess. No, I was sad. I missed that one. But hey, we're here now.

Jordan:

Yeah. And chaperoning this episode is co founder of Buzzsprout Tom Rossi.

Tom:

Thanks for having me. I don't know about chaperoning. But

Jordan:

oh, no, Kevin seemed pretty adamant that you were going to be on the show. So I think you were sent to make sure that things don't go sideways. That I'm really excited to have you on because you have an extensive background in radio. So can you give us the rundown of that it's so cool. You're so cool

Matt:

with Thank you. My first podcast was dedicated to following the Montreal Canadiens. And we pair it up with a live postgame show that aired after every game in Montreal, like on local radio. And we guessed it on it a couple of times as our my co host cousin kind of ran it. So we got into it that way. And we talked we came up with an idea of a because it Montreal everyone goes to the game on the subway, or you're walking to the game or on the bus kind of thing. Right. So we thought we conceived this kind of pregame show that was obviously not live, but we got you ready for the game. So it was called I think it was called drive to the game. And we kind of piggybacked off of their success. And it was crazy busy, because sometimes they have four games in a week. And so we were prepping, we were doing our radio shows live and also on the side, kind of prepping this doing this in the studio. That was a lot of fun. We did that for three seasons, plus playoffs, which is a whole other level of stress. But that's 82 episodes in five months. Yeah, 45 minute episodes, we had some really cool guests on. We had. Well, everyone knows Don Cherry it and no one knows Ontario. Okay, cool, fine. That's a Canada thing. All right. If Jonathan was here, he'd know that's a Boston guy. Anyway, he's a big hockey figure, especially Canada. He had some beef with former Montreal Canadian player, we had Chris Nylund, who was the guy who had beef with on the show The week after it happened on live TV. So that was awesome. My most recent one was going through my record collection, A to Z for the benefit of my son, my oldest son, wax Wednesday, and I had friends on friends and family on talking about their favorite bands or favorite concerts, their associations with these bands in these albums. Some of them were just me, some of them were friends and family. With radio. It's been something that's been a part of my life since I was a kid. I was the kid that made tapes off the radio and got mad when the when the announcers spoke over the end, we call that hit in the post or walk in the post. And that is when you stop talking and the lyric starts. That's a good feeling. That's an amazing feeling, especially when it's live. I was that kid that made the skits with my friends and stuff on the little built in mics on all ghetto blasters and boom boxes and stuff, right that sounded like you think like the worst microphone and the worst echoey room ever. It's something that I always kind of tinkered with all through like High School University. And something I quite literally fell back afterwards into. It was not in the plan to go work in radio. It was not a career path that I was interested in, in any way, shape, or form. I literally got a phone call from a friend of mine that I grew up with best friends said, Hey, man, are you coming to mountain mountain, New Brunswick this weekend? We'd had some plans and said yep, half an hour later got another text message. You want a job interview? As what? What are you talking about? So you wait, yeah, you want to work in radio? Yeah, okay. I was kind of in between things after university like it was it was that gray area of life where you're done university, but you haven't transitioned to anything yet. You're just working like a couple of odd part time jobs and

Tom:

you have so much time. So much freedom,

Matt:

no commitments, you're not nailed down to anything. And I was like, Sure. Moved. Moved from Fredericton, New Brunswick to Moncton, New Brunswick for a part time job in radio. And, and failed upwards.

Jordan:

I love that. Yes.

Matt:

Yes kids failing upwards is a viable life strategy it is went from doing part time doing gopher stuff, like helping put remote broadcasts together voice and commercial spots, getting the odd on air shift on the weekends and filling in on vacations. Then one of our stations, our sister stations on haul flipped formats, and they needed some bodies. And they said, Hey, do you want to come on full time and didn't even think about it said yes, and did all rotated through all of the day parts on their mornings 3:30am mornings to get to the station and on air for five middays it's a lot of fun. live radio is a lot of fun. I know radios, a lot of automation nowadays, and the life has been sucked out of it. That's a whole other podcast. But it's a lot of fun. And if you ever get a chance to do live radio, I suggest you do it, you're gonna learn a lot about yourself real quick. The again, like there's a difference between not editing, and a quick and dirty edit. Like again, from Radio. I'm used to quick and dirty edits because I got three minutes to get something recorded, quickly edit and get it on the air before whatever song is over. So I have to have a low bar sometimes. And plus they're on the phone so everyone knows it's a low bar.

Jordan:

Okay, so in radio, you record something and then slap together and edit and then put it out on the air.

matt:

Oh, yeah, you got like three, four minutes sometimes.

Tom:

What? Dang, no pressure wild.

Matt:

Yeah, you got that you're doing that in real time. So I got in to kind of show the wizard behind the curtain for a moment. Like if I go okay, call me at 5551234. caller seven. Usually it's not caller seven. It's usually caller two. You are watching like on one monitor, you have the On Air software, running all your music running all your ads, everything your logs. Over here, you have what we call our prep computer, which is what you're recording on. And these talk to each other through the board which is right in front of you. So you have and you have a co host sometimes across from you, who is also talking to the person on the phone that calls in so you're watching and listening to three different things. So you have to go okay, there's my moment. Boom. Okay, thank you. So you get 45 seconds to a minute say cool, hang on the line. Go on. And he got like 13 seconds left and meatloaf and you go back on and say hey, we're on the we're on the phone with our winner bubble, boom, smoke and mirrors put it all together. So it sounds like it's like no one knows a difference.

Jordan:

I feel like my soul just left my body.

matt:

It's a lot of hurry up and wait. That's a lot of pressure though.

Jordan:

It's so funny because you know, I was like a theater major in college and I'm used to like performing in front of people. But there's something so paralyzing to me about improvising. I can't do it. It's a struggle. It's I'm, I'm getting a little bit better with it with this podcast. My personal podcast is fully scripted. But there's something about improvising. I struggle with it so deeply. So I can't fathom just getting thrown on air and being like, alright, swim.

Matt:

That's quite literally what it was. And I remember quite vividly shortly after I started full time, our morning show host at the time was leaving and going to another station. So the next day, I was on the air five o'clock in the morning doing the morning show. I knew I was going to get the call because I was the only other option. Just logistically I was the option. I went from doing mid day's work through the work day, which is considered a lot of like a throwaway shift, essentially for noobs. And no, you're on the morning and it was quite literally sink or swim.

Jordan:

How did it go? I'm so curious on how your first one went?

Tom:

Do we have the recording?

Matt:

I have I have all the audio on to hard drive all my all my radio stuff. I have it I'll save. Awful.

Tom:

That's kind of great when people hear those first recordings of a podcaster and encouraging them like you can only get better.

matt:

Exactly. I do the same thing and listen to old episodes of podcasts. And it's cringy I'm not gonna say other people believe it's cringy. But you yourself being your own harshest critic, you will Oh, what is that? That is terrible. But you get to see where where you are now and the journey, you hear that evolution. Like I can go back and listen to some of those early bits. And you can hear

Matt:

(monotone) "Hi, this is Max FM my name is Matt Rideout Right like you hear you hear that? I'm like this, you hear today it's going to be 17 degrees and sunny this afternoon here's Meatloaf Bat Out Of Hell." that? I'm uptight. And then there was the brief moment where you try to have a radio voice and you push your voice, what we call roddy radio, (announcer voice) "SUNNY OUTSIDE & 17 DEGREES!". You know what I mean? Like you can hear people pushing their voice or you can hear someone reading and then you finally come to terms with the fact of screw it. This is my voice and I'm relaxed now and I'm comfortable with it. Yeah, you just have to eventually get comfortable with who you are, what you sound like and what you want to talk about. Right? That's what you have to ultimately and that's a battle within yourself. That's the we're getting philosophical here. Watch your feet when you stand up. Kids are dropping knowledge. This is

Tom:

the Buzzcast Turn right here. We're talking about we're gonna go in a different direction. Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah. Jordans, immediately regretting having me on the podcast. Yeah. It's it's a, it's a big journey that and a lot of podcasters face, we see it every day in the Facebook group, we see the we see the self doubt. And we see the questioning, it happens every single day, everyone's gone through it to one degree or another. But eventually, you just have to say, I'm hitting record, this is what's happening, we're gonna do it. And we learn from it, you learn and you adjust along the way, I'm going to make the greatest plan in the world with 20 points, and I'm going to hit all my points. But you know what, that's great got to be prepared to throw that plan out the window and trust your gut.

Tom:

We see all the time, though. So you got your 20 points, you do your recording, oh, you only hit 16 I guess I'm not going to put that episode out, I'll have to wait and try to record it again. And so it's months and months, sometimes years of people we recording their first episode, and they they refuse to go live, they refuse to publish it. Because they're they're holding on to that. And they don't realize that everyone experiences that self doubt, everyone is experiencing that fear of failure, the fear of rejection, the fear that nobody's going to listen, and all those all that that plays out. And so I think it's good for them to hear everyone has that.

Jordan:

Something that I really enjoy doing is going to Patreon and finding podcasts like the top earning podcasts, the ones that are making like 90,000 a month, you know, 60,000 a month, whatever. It's so fun to go into their podcast feeds and go to the very first episode, and it is crap. It's good crap, but it's crap. It's not nearly where it is, you know, today, when they've upgraded things, they've hired a staff or whatever, you know, and so it's really just reassuring to go to those indie podcasters. You know, sometimes even networks too. I've heard some networks that were rough when they first started. Yeah, it's really fun to do that and just kind of be reassured, like, Okay, I'm on their path to like I'm on the same trail that they are. So yeah, finding

matt:

that balance between what your audience wants and scratching your own creative edge. Right, understanding your audience and finding the balance with things that's not going to happen on Episode One through 10. If it does, awesome, I'm very happy for you. But the reality is, you got to find your legs, and you got to you got to walk before you can run. And hearing that evolution is fun. It's good. It's good for the listener, because I know like Jordan said, you start like episode 100 and go back to Episode One that is little. Okay. It can be a little jarring. But the cons if the contents there, though, the ones that listen to the journey, if they know where it's going to end a little or have an idea where it's gonna go, right? The relationship

Tom:

between the podcaster and the podcast listener. Like there's almost a sense of pride as the listener hears the podcast mature and get better, right? Because it's a weird relationship. Like, I love the podcasters that I listened to. And so if their show gets better, I feel I shouldn't. But I feel some sense of pride. Like, I don't know, maybe because I listened to it. I feel like I like I should get a pat on the back. Yeah, I'm part of this. I'm a part of making it better even though I have no input to them, making it actually better.

Jordan:

We do have some updates from the last episode of Buzzcast. And Claire from the silent ye podcast wrote Angela, Alvin and Kevin note, she had almost a completely different experience with the podcast show in London. They were they I think they were a little hard on it. They were a little hard. I wasn't there. So I don't actually know. But she disagree with a lot of what they said. She said that with the podcast show in London. She did not get as much of a salesy vibe. She felt that the sessions were excellent. And she got a lot from it. And this one is one of my favorite points. Because Alvin and Kevin said that the rooms fit like 150 people and it was like packed and she says, No, the rooms take 500 to 650 people not 155

matt:

that much.

Tom:

Opens normally better at math than Kevin so I'm surprised

Jordan:

her only critique was that she did feel that there could be some app improvements and with the start times with the sessions, but overall she felt like it was a success. I think I'm gonna have to go to the podcast show in London next year, and then I will report back and see who's right.

Tom:

I think you're right, I think I'm gonna need to go as well. Yeah, so

Jordan:

me and Tom are gonna go next year.

matt:

That's the whole roundabout way of bringing this up. Yeah.

Tom:

Basically a contract now that we are going next year.

Jordan:

Oh, yeah, no, it's set in stone like it once the episodes published, you know, it's done. So Claire, Thanks for writing in and I will have a link to her podcast in the show notes so you can check it out. Last episode, Kevin alluded to working on a pale option for podcast There's earning money through the Buzzsprout ads.

Kevin:

They're making some really good money from like nothing two weeks ago to hundreds of dollars that are now sitting available for them in their their Buzzsprout wallet. And don't worry, we are working on a cash out implementation right now just had a meeting about that.

Alban:

We're still in the land of like crypto earnings, Kevin until it's cashed out. I don't know if it's real. These are, these are numbers on a digital wallet, that Buzzsprout will get you this money, that is

Kevin:

a top priority, and it is not tied to crypto at all, the number will not go down. So we absolutely are podcasters that money and that solution is being built. Hopefully it'll be out by the time. I don't know if I can say that'll be out by the time we record again. But it should be close.

Jordan:

Kevin was right. He was right on the money. The Buzzsprout payout bus. Wow, that's a mouthful. The Buzzsprout payout rollout did happen before the episode aired? Yes,

Tom:

yes, it did. We're really proud of the work that we did. They're making it so that now anybody who has you know, they've earned some monetization, they've got some money, we've actually created a Buzzsprout wallet. And so that's where the money is. And then they can go in and cash out. Right now you can cash out through PayPal, or you can use it to pay your hosting fees. So some great options. I love how easy

matt:

it is. It's like, I remember the first week that beta got rolled out, like all over the Facebook page was Is it really this easy. Everyone was everyone was instantly skeptical? And they're like, What? No, no, no, what's the catch? What's the catch here? I smell Kool Aid. What's going on? And we're like, No, we asked all the questions too. And it really is that easy.

Tom:

It's been fun. So all day today, it's been exciting. Just a watch, you know, these people that one podcaster we were listening to was just talking about how simple it was how her podcast had really blown up and had gotten really popular. And it was a great success story. She started with Buzzsprout. So she's been with us the whole time she grew this audience, but never wanted to do the work, you know, to go find sponsors and to deal with advertisers. And she she's just been putting it off, while she enabled it when we first rolled it out as a beta. And she was able to make 1000s of dollars, and didn't really have to do any of that work that she kind of, she's kind of crossed it off her to do list is what she was saying in her podcast. But it's great. So that is all rolled out. So anybody who's enabled monetization, they can go right in, and they'll now see links in there to cash out.

Jordan:

Sounds profitable, did a study on the creators of the podcast, which there were some interesting takeaways with that.

Tom:

It's funny because I I'm an I'm a numbers guy. I'm a stats guy. But I take it all with a grain of salt. And and I felt that way when I was, you know, looking for some of the numbers is how much it can be skewed without even knowing. And I kept going back because there's a lot of conversation about the misrepresentation in genders. And it reminded me of the conflict that we had a while ago where nobody else was sharing their numbers. No other podcast host was really sharing their numbers in a transparent way. And so Kevin and I had talked about it. And it was something an album really wanted as well, like pushing for, let's put up a page where for all the podcasters in the world, we just put it out there. Well, it's scary, because you're putting your stats out there, and maybe you're doing something wrong or whatever, maybe there's gonna be pushback. Well, sure enough, put those numbers out. And as those numbers were tracked, for several months, there was a lot of pushback about our Spotify and Apple numbers, because of the way that we were looking at Apple and Spotify, where they were saying, Well, we're getting a lot more apple downloads in you guys, you know, you're you're showing a lot more Spotify than what other podcast hosts might be showing. And what does that mean. And there's a whole bunch of technical stuff that was going on. But one of the things that kind of came out of it as we started to look at it was Buzzsprout gravitates towards people that are starting podcasts. Like if you're starting a podcast Buzzsprout has a really simple way to to get into it. And to begin, we remove all those barriers to get your podcast going. So as a result, a lot of new podcasters are on Buzzsprout Well, guess what? A lot of new podcasters also use Spotify. And so our Spotify numbers do look skewed, because we do have a lot of new podcasters. And so I wonder, with the statistics that we were looking there, I was wondering if it was kind of the same thing, where surely the older podcasters weren't, it was dominantly male and technology focused, right? Like you had to have all this kind of technical knowledge to be able to build an RSS feed and build your own podcasts. And so I wasn't sure that the sample size wasn't that big. And so depending on how they put it together. I just wondered if that skewed some of the numbers and so it was a little bit pretty Truly nobody's like, oh my gosh, there's a problem in the industry that we need to solve.

Jordan:

It's really interesting because it's, I don't want to say an afterthought sort of thing. But it's information that they pulled from the podcast metrics survey that Edison Research did. And they said that they surveyed 8000 podcast listeners. And then 600 of those listeners indicated that they were also podcasters. So it's only 600 people. And right now there's currently like 2.8 million podcasts or something like that. And during the Twitter chat with Tom Webster with Brian Barletta, and everybody on a gogo actually brought up a point where she was saying, Why do you not survey? The people that go to the, you know, like Podcast Movement, like when they go there? Like, why do you not survey them? And I can't remember, it was Tom O'Brien. But they brought up a good point that it can get skewed, because it's going to be like the people that can afford to go to those kind of things. But my thinking is, and this is where my insecurity comes in. Okay? When something seems so blatantly obvious to me, oh, here we go. I know that there must be a reason that they haven't done it. Okay, these guys are much smarter than I am. But for some reason, I just can't get off of this. I don't understand why they don't partner with the podcast hosts to distribute the survey, to survey the people creating the podcast, it seems so obvious to me that the podcasters have to host their podcast somewhere. So why not have the podcast hosts? Send it out and say, Hey, do you want to take part in the survey? It just, it blows me away that that's not what is going on here. And instead they're saying like, Okay, well, Edison Research is actually expanding the podcast metrics survey to 20,000 people will big work, because that's going to be like, what, 1000 podcasters? Or, you know,

matt:

a drop in the ocean. Yeah,

Jordan:

it's one of those things like, I'm sure that guys, please don't tweet at me or something. Like, be nice if you do, and it's

Tom:

not to take away, it's really good information. And it's really, it's just like podcast statistics, when you go and look at your own statistics, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt, you need to understand you shouldn't make I tell this to podcasters all the time, I don't think you should make big decisions about your podcast based on your stats, you just can't do that. And I'm a stats guy, I spent a lot of my life worrying about, you know, the stats and making sure that they're accurate. But it can't be taken with that much weight. And I think that's true. In this case, when people were talking about there's a problem in the industry. I was like, I don't I don't know, I don't know if I would say that. Now, surely, if there was other evidence, this would support that evidence. But if there's barriers to people getting into podcasting, Buzzsprout has always been about, I want to know what those barriers are so that we can remove them. So I think that's a worthwhile conversation, the stats

Jordan:

for anchor are going to be so much different than they would be for Buzzsprout. For Lipson, because of the types of people that are going to use those platforms, it gets

Tom:

very difficult. When you start thinking about where that sample comes from where those listeners, it started off with the listeners. And again, I don't want to make it sound like it's worthless. It's super valuable. And it's really good. And it's really generous for them to put this information together and then share it, I love the way that they present it. I love the way that they care about growing the industry in doing it in a healthy way. I think we as you know, people that are just kind of consuming it just have to take it, take it with a grain of salt and recognize there's a lot of complexity that goes into how they choose their their samples that they're gonna know

Unknown:

the hows and the wise. Right. And I know we kind of had touched on it previously, when all this came out that what it all kind of boiled down to with me was it's a good starting point. Right. And it's not something that, like you said, Tom, that people should make massive decisions based on again, this is 600 people out of 8000 that indicated they also have a podcast while listening to podcasts. Right? That's a that's not a big sample size for me to make defining decisions. For my podcast future. Those aren't even necessarily 8000 people that listen to my podcast. Right? You know what I consider that?

Tom:

Well, I like the way that Tom spun it, because the way that he presents the numbers is with a really positive, you know, this points to the growth that's available in the industry, which is great, right, saying that, look, this just shows that there's more opportunity, there's more people that we can bring into the podcasting ecosystem. And so I do really appreciate that, that positive spin to those numbers. You know,

Jordan:

to Matt's point, it's also 600 podcasters. That are weekly listeners of podcasts. There's plenty of podcasters that don't listen to other podcasts. I don't think that's good.

Tom:

It's not a good idea. I

Jordan:

think it's Yeah, I think you should be very familiar with the industry that you're participating in. But it also excludes those people so you know, there's going to be You'd results with the one of the things that I thought was really interesting is that, you know, there's a takeaway that podcasters support each other is said that 68% said they have given money to support a podcast and last year 60% have an apple podcast subscription, and 48% Pay for podcast subscriptions on Patreon. But I wonder if that would be the same for podcasters that don't listen to podcasts?

Tom:

Yeah, I think that's that's another positive spin that was also borne out in the other Edison Research, when they were looking at the listeners, just that podcasters follow podcasters and that there's opportunities for when a podcaster makes a recommendation for another podcast, that, you know, a lot of people find podcasts that way. And so you definitely see the support, you'd expect that that would bear out in both for the listener and for the Creator. But it's a great positive takeaway from both those research projects.

Jordan:

Some of the findings that I thought were interesting, and some of the things that kind of stirred up some conversation in the community is that the gender was 69% male and 29% women and 2% non binary. And that's a massive discrepancy, which is so funny, because I don't know if I really see that in the community. And maybe it's because I'm a woman and so other women podcasters are put more in front of me because of like algorithms or something like that, you know, so, to me, it doesn't feel that way. But

Unknown:

I don't know, I'd side with you. It doesn't, it doesn't feel that way. To me. I know a lot of the podcasts that I listen to regularly are, I'd say probably like 60% of them are male driven. But most of them are sports podcasts. Of course, that's unfortunately nature of the beast right now. It is changing. Hayley Wickenheiser, Scott Hale hired as the assistant general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. So that's awesome. I don't see it, though. Maybe it is a visual cue, like right in front of me on my phone, I see women podcasters I see in the group every day, right. So it's something that it did kind of stick out to me, I would actually say that women are actually more interactive on the Facebook group, they post more often, right? So maybe it's the thing. It's, again, a perception is reality thing where I see it all the time, like you do. And that shocked me as well, when I saw that stat is interesting.

Tom:

The listener data that they released in their previous research project showed that it was getting more in line with the population with the US population, the gender breakdown. And so I think, again, that's what got me thinking, like, why would there be this discrepancy? And so it could come down to sample size, it could come down to there's there's an issue in the industry, I just granted I'm a white male, so maybe I don't I don't see him. But um, it's easy. I think that should be the question that we asked, it shouldn't be how do we get more women into podcasting? It should be are there things that are stopping women from being able to get into the industry? Are there roadblocks? Are there barriers that have been put up that make it difficult for, for people to get into podcasting to actually create their first podcast? And if the answer to that is yes, well, then let's address those like I would, I'd be the first one to sign up to say, let's see if there's if there's anything that we can do to make it easier. Buzzsprout is all about taking that on?

Unknown:

Yes, let's find them. If there are barriers, let's find them and remove them and bring them in. Again, like you said, with sample size thumb, like, it may be a sample size issue. Okay. So let's find them. Where are they? Why don't Why aren't they here? Why are they there? Those kinds of questions, right and get them involved.

Tom:

In I again, I go back to the if you were to look at a population from a bunch of podcast creators that had started their podcast more than let's say, four years ago? Well, I think it's going to skew male, because we've had so many people that have come into the industry recently. And depending on how you how you identify that sample, it's going to be it's going to be skewed one way or the other. I would think that certainly five to 10 years ago, that's what it was because it was mostly male dominated technology podcasts, it was only only the most technical people really even use the term podcasts until very recently, relatively very recently. And so I think that would skew those numbers to show it to being more male. If you were to look at older podcasts.

Jordan:

I know that this survey was done last year, so 2021. So that's pretty recent. It could just be the sample that they got was,

Tom:

I don't know the age, I thought the other statistics that they brought out that 14% were older than 44. And Tom was making the comment of hey, that just shows again, there's a great opportunity in the industry to build content to bring those people in that are older than 44. Yeah, that's a very positive spin on it. Rather than saying if they're older than that, they can't figure out how to download it.

Jordan:

Yeah, that's true if they're pulling the Creator information from a survey of podcast listeners, and yeah, it's probably not going to skew older. Right. So one of the other things that was really fascinating to me is the education portion. of this survey. It says that what's what's the math on this? 88%? Yes. Am I right? Yeah, great. I did good math. Okay. Have at least some college 20% Have some college 68% At least have a degree and 40% have an advanced degree 40% I mean, that's yeah, that's pretty staggering. Yeah, that's huge. And it kind of makes sense to me, because those are the people that are like I have I have the expertise or the knowledge to talk about this. So it kind of makes sense to me that they would have a podcast, you know, but

Tom:

what if 68% of podcasters are liars? They're making up their own skills and backgrounds.

Matt:

I reject your reality and substitute my own life.

Tom:

Yeah, it is pretty, it is pretty amazing that it looks that way. And again, it just doesn't seem like that's what you see when you interact with not not to say that they seem stupid. But it just doesn't seem like that's a barrier that that's up there.

Jordan:

You know, if you think about podcasts, there's so many broadcasts where they're sitting around like a Blue Yeti mics and on the couch smoking and like just talking like shooting whatever,

Matt:

I'm sorry, can we back up to the term broke?

Tom:

She's gonna send she's gonna send over so that's the podcast

Jordan:

market is so heavily saturated with that kind of thing. And I don't think those are the people with the advanced degrees like no offense, they could be they totally could be you could be so intelligent and just have like a whatever podcast, but I kind of feel like most of it is just like the people like scenario like Dude, we're so funny. We should record this

Unknown:

Apophis will do that to you. That's how those conversations start. You would know in Canada. That's like the first like only guy from Canada dig in. But you've made a long time.

Tom:

I wasn't sure if a Canadian jokes were on the table or not.

Matt:

Bring it I've heard a ball.

Tom:

I've heard them all. This one's

Jordan:

really interesting. So on the politics 57%, Democrat 17%, Republican 18% independent and 8%. Other.

Tom:

Yeah, that was interesting, because he made the comment, it was 70 something percent of the US population were independent. So I think we need to have a push to get more independence and Republican podcasters.

Jordan:

Yeah. I don't know how you would go about that. I'm Tom Rossi. and I approve this message.

Tom:

Well, he also talked about the Twitter usage. And Twitter is in the same boat, right. Where's Twitter skews? Hi, towards Democrats? Oh, so I thought it was consistency in the data set. 57% Democrat and a large percentage. were primarily using Twitter for their social

Jordan:

media that does check out I didn't even I didn't even piece that together. And I think

Tom:

it's changing quickly as more people come into podcasting. That's why you see Spotify continue to grow and tick tock, I mean, the Tick Tock numbers were staggering in the infinite dial listener report of just how many podcasters are using tick tock. So like, you know, that's just it's beginning to be a young in terms of podcast creators are podcast listeners and podcast creators of follow.

Jordan:

It is interesting, how many more podcast listeners there are. Because on the Listen notes, podcast stats page, they're saying that podcast creation is declining. You can see it here where we had a huge spike in new podcasts in 2020. And then it went down for 2021. And then 2022 is declining even by month. Yeah,

Matt:

I think that's that's spot on to what it was people had the time, and they had the means to do it. Right. And once everyone started going back to work, and the world started going back to some semblance of normal, okay, something's got to go to the wayside. Pod. Fade is real.

Tom:

I think there's some truth to that, have people had time to tinker around and try it out. And see if it was working. I don't think something's changed in podcasting. And that's making it so that people are leaving the podcasting industry. I just think people got to tinker around during COVID. And there was something that you could do when you were forced to be a part. Yeah, it

Jordan:

looks like so far in 2022. It's just under 200,000. New podcasts have been created. But I mean, that's compared to about 1 million in 2020. And about 800,000 in 2021.

Tom:

So still a lot of podcasts getting created just not as many as what we were seeing before.

Jordan:

Oh, yeah. So if we're more than halfway through this year, and there's less than 200,000, then that number is gonna be exponentially lower than 21. If it continues declining, and then the listeners continue increasing. It's gonna be a pretty good share for the people that don't pod fade.

matt:

Yeah. That's the other part that I was kind of curious about is how many podcasts continued and grew over that same time period. Right. And I think there's another one there with the dead podcasts by year. Yeah. So that's like, Okay, you got 200,000 new and both 30,000 of them have faded around that same timeframe at the same time. Yeah, that's what my question would be those how many how many shows grew and how many shows stuck around over that timeframe? Right? That's that would be my inquisitive nature. I'm just taking the the negative of everyone podcasting is dying. If it's not,

Tom:

I like the way that Jordan said it. When you think about the increase in listenership, again, which Edison Research had, in their infinite dial, once they talked about the number of people that are listening to podcast is growing. And so yeah, that's great. It's great for the podcaster that there's more people coming in and more podcasts leaving,

Jordan:

it also, to me shows that there were a lot of podcasters that kind of like found their groove in podcasting and stuck to it for a lot of them actually stuck to it. If you look at those numbers,

Tom:

not as many as there was during COVID. But more than there was before COVID

Jordan:

Yeah, if you compare it even to 2019 It's it's way more podcasts. Like we're still kind of in like a boom or something like that. But it's gone down a little bit.

Tom:

Yeah. Will we beat 2019? Yeah,

Matt:

I'm kind of like Tom in the sense that whenever like radio ratings came in, I'm like, great. You can skew those any single way that you want. Work Number one with women 24 to 48. Okay, that's the goal. That's the money market and radio, right? But then you see stages word number number 112 to 55. Number one station. Okay, what demographic and where did you get your information? Don't get me into radio ratings. It's insane. It's all right in it for the most part. It's wild.

Tom:

Yeah, you can spin the story around it.

Jordan:

You know what that reminds me of is? So today, I saw a tweet from James Kirtland. delighted to know that podcast News Daily a competitor is once again compiling a list of most powerful people in podcasting. For the record here are the last three years of results. Inside radio is a subsidiary of iHeartMedia right? And every single year when they compile the most powerful people in podcasting, the number one is the CEO of I hearts digital audio group. Cracks me up because there's kind of I think that there's just like a joke in podcasting that I hearts number one for podcasts are always touting that they've got like the neon sign when you go to Podcast Movement. It says number one for podcasts, number one in podcasting. So this company that is like self proclaimed number one in podcasting is also nominating their president. Number one.

Tom:

Come on in the New York City, world's best coffee since

matt:

famous, Famous Original Ray's.

Tom:

Well, Albanhas declared you the number one most powerful Podcast Producer. He did.

Jordan:

And I said no takesies-backsies. So that's my title.

Tom:

That's true. That's legal. And you tweeted it.

Jordan:

So it's signed, sealed, delivered. As part of the record, I am most powerful Podcast Producer in Buzzsprout. I saw quite a few articles saying that Spotify released RADAR Podcasters. And Spotify has a RADAR for artists, right. So it's basically them saying like Release RADAR. And it's just like a curated list of maybe like up and coming artists or new releases, things like that. Their editors are constantly like curating and updating and stuff like that. So if you're somebody that likes to be in the know, with like anything new, then that's what you listen to. And they just recently implemented radar for podcasters, which is really, really cool. So every quarter the editorial team selects three up and coming creators and each participating market, there's going to be a radar for podcasts in English Espanol. I think I think that there's going to be different languages or different regions of the world. And they're saying that they are focusing on shows that exhibit authenticity. Inclusivity have a good hook and both educate and entertain. But when I actually did some digging into this, I found that not only did they drop radar for podcasters, they added three other things. So the first one is they have enabled podcasters to have access to the editorial team. They added a new editorial submission form. This is actually really big that they have opened up a submission forum for podcasters to kind of put their show out there and be considered for these curated playlists. There's podcasts, browse, podcasts and releases is music storytelling, true crime, highlighting social issues TV and film sports, indie creators, and they even have an astrology clubs. So if you have like an astrology podcast, you can put it out there.

Tom:

That's strange that that got its own category. I know it's wild. They're like, You know what we need? We need an astrology club.

Jordan:

It must be something about like the demographic of like Spotify users. What do they know that we don't want to link to the submission form for that too. And then they also added search guidelines. It's kind of been like a fun time to be a podcaster. Right now, or, or someone who's reporting on like any new podcast stuff, because first Apple podcasts finally released, how their SEO works, like how their search engine works, and things like that. And now Spotify has also done the same thing. So they're saying Spotify search reorders results by relevance, taking into account whether the user already follows the show, or what affinity they have for certain podcast categories, which is interesting, because that means that if you search something on Spotify is going to show up differently from what I search, you know, I'm gonna get a lot more paranormal True Crime podcasts, whereas you might get more like sports or tech related stuff. So that's kind of interesting. Astrology. Yeah, Tom's gonna get the astrology ones.

Tom:

It's kind of like the the Netflix model, right? Where it's even their top 10. It's really curated. It's a list. It's really been curated for you. But they make it look like oh, this is, you know, just our content. Yeah, it's

Matt:

a skewed top 10. Yeah, it's

Tom:

your top 10. It really is.

matt:

Here's the top 10 that we think you would enjoy watching. Right? You watch Stranger Things? Would you like Ghostbusters? Yes.

Matt:

It just gives you an opportunity to get your podcasts in front of somebody who's interested in the things that your podcast is about?

Tom:

Yeah, I think those are all those are all really good things for for podcasters. In Spotify,

Matt:

yeah. And then your ranking actually improves if your podcast gets engagement. So when your podcast shows up in the search results if you get downloads plays, or they share your podcasts from that search, and that actually is going to make you rank a little bit better in the future. Spotify says what to do to improve your podcast SEO. You need clear episode titles and good quality descriptions that cover the topics and podcast information as well as including any guest information. And I love that Spotify is pulling from the episode description, because Apple podcast doesn't do that. And it blows my mind that Apple podcasts does not pull from the episode description. Why did they not pull from the episodes description. So I'm happy that Spotify does that. And maybe that's why I personally, my podcast rings so much better on Spotify than it does on Apple podcasts. Because I do really hefty episode descriptions with my podcast.

Unknown:

What I'd like to see eventually from Spotify, and with Apple is if there were some way to sync it up and have recommendations also based on your listening habits with their music accounts. Oh, interesting. I'm into classic rock like metal and things like that. If I'm listening to Iron Maiden, and Bruce Dickinson, who just started a podcast, I should somehow find a way to get notified of that. You know what I mean? I found out about it like just recently, but I'm a massive Iron Maiden fan. There has to be there has to be a way that if I have Iron Maiden on my phone on Apple Music that I hate Did you know Bruce Dickinson the singer of Iron Maiden has a podcast there should be a way for that you guys can pay me for that later. That's the seed planted watered as you will

Tom:

Spotify is big Buzzcast listener.

Matt:

I'm sure of it. That's such a good idea. You know, it's funny because you you brought up Netflix and Stranger Things. I opened up my Spotify app the other morning and this pop up came up on the app and it was so cool and it was a stranger things upside down playlist and Spotify says we curated a playlist to save you from Vecna which is like a season four thing and I was just like yes! like so cool! And you push like the share thing and they have like the cool Stranger Things like line design across and you can share like your playlist so that your friends know what songs to play so that you won't get like killed as if you're in Stranger Things.

Unknown:

See that right there? That's genius marketing because the memes going around to write of like all I forget her name the redhead that got saved with the Kate Bush song? (Max.) Yes, I'll be like everyone putting a screenshot of what they're listening to or what tape kind of things on there, right for anyone under 30 set what we listen to those a genius marketing

Matt:

Oh, it's so smart. And I don't know if they did it for like everybody. But it was interesting to me that like I had Just finished season four. And then like they pop up with that. And I was like still in it. So yeah, I thought that was like really good.

Tom:

There's a positive side of the creepy, right? Like the fact that it knows that Matt likes Iron Maiden. Yeah, there's a positive side to that, which means that it can make recommendations for podcasts that you might like, right? So it's definitely, it's definitely true.

Matt:

It's so funny because that's like, the whole thing with you guys is you don't like the information thing. And I'm like, sync up all my accounts, what I'm watching what I'm doing what I'm listening to sync it all up and just have your algorithm present to me all the things that I will love most give me all the content. Yes, like, give me all the content. And it's so funny, because you guys are so like anti that.

Tom:

I mean, I say that, but I do like, I mean, I don't post any more on Facebook, but I do use Facebook to manage the group and stuff like that. And it knows, I mean, it knows me, man. Like the ads that show up. It's like Star Wars T shirts. And like I'm into electric skateboards. And so the it just knows what ads to put in front of me. And it is kind of nice. It's like a curated, you know, magazine of stuff that you're interested in. I think where it gets creepy is when you don't know is when you you don't know that there. I have no doubt in my mind that Facebook is monitoring everything they can possibly monitor about my life, you know, and when it's creepy, when you don't know that something that you're doing is being monitored, you know? But yeah, so I think Spotify getting more podcasters in front of people that are potential podcast listeners is a good thing. And being able to put the right podcast in front of them, I think is a great way to get more people engaged in in podcasting. So I think overall, it's good for the industry, it'll only not be good if they're the only way to listen to podcasts. And that's really the big thing. That gives us heartache. When we think about Spotify. Like we love what they're doing. It totally makes sense as a business. But man, if they become the only way to listen to podcasts, then things will start to get ugly.

Matt:

They had another slide that said things not to do with your podcast, this is going to hurt your podcast SEO is what they're saying. They say common long names and titles with generic words like pod or podcast, which I love. Because I have told people over and over and over again, do not put the word podcast in your podcast title. And like, well, how are they gonna know it's filler podcast? Well just put on your socials, that's fine, but not in your actual podcast title, because that's gonna bump you down because there's just too much of that. Or there's something show like you know, anything like that is going to bump it down. They're saying short episode descriptions, which I've seen where people are like episode number 185. With so and so. And that's it. That's all their episode description like they don't talk about like the topics, no show notes, nothing like that. So make sure that you have that. And this one's really interesting what they say not to do repetitive descriptions that are the same each episode. That's really interesting. And that's not something I thought of. Yeah, it's

Tom:

one of the things that we've talked about with the addition of some type of footer, because some people they just copy and paste to their description every time. Yeah. And at some point, it begins to look like spam. And so I wonder if they're kind of penalizing

Matt:

interesting, because I do that with, you know, my support the show links, you know, anything like that. Sponsorships, I actually have like, I'll just copy the previous episode description, and I will paste it into the new one. And I will add information about what the episodes about, I will add information about like music featured in the episode, things like that. But other than that, it's all copied and pasted for like the last like three years.

Tom:

I wonder, I wonder if it's like a certain percentage, like if over half of the description is just the same for every episode, then the description might not be very relevant.

Matt:

Yeah. What's the threshold? Man? This is a new feature from Reddit. Right? It

Tom:

talks get another entry.

matt:

That was my thought to another entry. Yeah, here's another one.

Tom:

I think it's interesting, right? Like, I think you're gonna reach people that are on Reddit. Just like Twitter spaces, you're gonna reach people that are on Twitter, it could be useful depending on the type of podcast that you have.

Matt:

And when it's a pretty great platform. I'm not a member of the Reddit community. But I will often go to Reddit when I'm needing to find some like opinions or information or recommendations for something. They just have like a little bit of everything or even just funny posts or things like that read it's kind of like the place to go for that kind of thing. So I think that this is going to be really interesting in that is not going to have the same people creating these chats is what you get on like clubhouse where it's just like a bunch of networkers trying to like network the crap out of networking, and it's like so stupid annoying. Like, let me tell you how I really feel back. Yeah, I think that there's gonna be a little bit of difference but between the types of people using this app as opposed to, you know, Twitter clubhouse, things like that. Yeah, I think I think you're right in that I think Reddit will change that he does. And it was, like Tom said, it's gonna be easier to find your niche on there, again, depending on your niche, but it's whatever you need to get into in Reddit, you can get into on Reddit. Alright, so it's just gonna be okay. How do I do that with podcasting? And these live chats? Right? How do I jump into it and take advantage of it with this? So how is it going to roll out?

Tom:

The big question is, where are your listeners, right? Because if your listeners are there, go meet them. Go interact with them. And if they're on Reddit, they're on Reddit, they're on Twitter, they're on Twitter, but finding finding them and being the more that you interact with them, it will pay dividends in building trust, and just that relationship where they're going to listen to your podcast.

Matt:

You know, looking at this Reddit talks, there's some really cool stuff going on here. I love this, you know, using Reddit talks, you can win awesome digital and IRL awards. And that means "in real life"

Tom:

Wait. Was that for me? Did you say that for me?

Matt:

Yeah, that was for you, Tom.

Tom:

Yeah, right, we get the old guy on the show today, we're gonna tell him what IRL is.

Matt:

So basically, when you host these talks, when you enroll with their host program on Reddit, you can get exclusive swag like Reddit, hoodies and mics and get a special talk trophy on your Reddit profile just for hosting. So that's kind of fun. That kind of gamified it right? It's really interesting. Because to host a talk, you just go like you're going to make a post and you write in the topic or the question that you're gonna be like talking about, and it's really cool, because before you go live, you select up to three topics that your podcast is going to be about. So it can be about anime, it can be about gaming, it can be about books, or sports news, technology, careers, cryptocurrency, just whatever. And what's kind of cool about this is that it kind of ups the discoverability a little bit in that they will feature your talk, like your talk will pop up at the top of people who are interested in those categories, which is kind of cool.

Tom:

Let's get it in front of them for sure.

Matt:

Yeah, but I do think that they have some kinks to work out. You know, when I was kind of like looking into this and seeing what it was all about. There were a couple responses to it that weren't so great. So you know, I saw one person be like, Why am I getting in North Carolina talk when I'm in Utah, like I don't care about this with featuring these. I want to opt out unsubscribe? I think they have some things ironed out. But oh, that looks pretty cool. That'll get ironed out because it'll be a lot of those things like popping up in the feeds. It'll be based on what communities you're a part of on Reddit already. And some of those don't. Your location isn't relevant to them all the time. Rarely, if I'm part of a woodstove forum, doesn't matter if I'm in Canada or Seattle, or you know what I mean? Just for example, it doesn't matter. It says that information is relevant. But yeah, I can see how that would be annoying if it is a regionally based talk. Yes, exactly. Especially like if it's let's say that it's a sports team, like a college football talk, but they're fans of Texas or whatever. And it pops up in the rival school. I don't do sports ball. So I don't know what the rival school for that would be. But it let's say that's a fan of a rival football team. And that like Texas talk pops up. Well, they're probably not gonna like that, too. Yeah, just gonna initiate trolling, if anything, hey, yeah.

Tom:

But isn't there a lot, there's a lot of Reddit interactions with celebrities, where they're like, Oh, you can ask someone so it's gonna be on Reddit, you can ask them anything you want. It seems like that's something that Reddit has done really well, where they'll have these just communication with whatever Bill Gates or Dave Filoni from Star Wars, you know, is on Reddit, and you can go and ask any question you want, and they'll and they'll answer you. And so it seems like this is a natural fit for that being the next generation. So now you're actually getting to listen to them, and maybe ask your questions in real time and hear their voices. They're responding. So it could be really cool.

matt:

Yeah, that'd be cool. If that was an option. Yeah.

Matt:

Oh, yeah. It does, you know, have that element that clubhouse did where you can see people's profiles and just like clubhouse, like, you can raise your hand and you can do all that stuff. You can also send like emojis. And then they also during it have the live chat, which is really nice. And I think that that's something that was lacking from some of these other live chat platforms. You can have a listener raise their hand that can come up like ask a question, things like that. So another thing that's really cool with Reddit one is that after you end the talk, the post will become a recording and then everyone can listen to the recording later. So basically, your talk can become a Reddit post for people Until and find, and ultimately a podcast episode. So if you want to join the Reddit talk hosts program and get a chance to win their IRL and digital rewards you can apply to be a host, I will link to the reddit.com/talk page in the show notes there saying that you must host for talks every 30 days between July 11 and October 11. Easy peasy. And each talk must be at least 30 minutes. For me that would not be so easy. Especially if I hosted a talk by myself. I know some people are thinking of crystal profit that could just talk alone in a room for like half an hour. No problem. I don't think I could do that

Unknown:

depends on the topic for me, I could do it. It's just I would want to listen to some of the stuff I could go on about for for 30 minutes uninterrupted.

Matt:

You know what time it is. It's time for bazooka. Both of these are from Dave Jones. First one is for actually they're both 1900 SATs as well. So the first one says I think Nathan is right about the app review pop up skewing the apple podcast rating. I guess my question would be how much has that contributed to the increase in Apple podcast app usage numbers on the Buzzsprout global stats?

Tom:

Hmm, so we're talking about the fact that people think that they're leaving reviews for a podcast, but they're actually leaving the review for Apple podcasts for the app? I don't think that would affect the stacks at all for Buzzsprout. Other than maybe more people will think that Apple podcast is a better app than it is. Because it has more ratings.

matt:

Yeah, that's where the review is ultimately landing. Yeah.

Tom:

Yeah. But let's be honest, most people that are listening with Apple podcasts probably didn't even download it was probably on their phone or, you know, it's not like they searched for it and read the reviews first.

Matt:

So the second one says, Okay, let me just be the first to point out that quote, unquote, pod friend is absolutely a rip off of Martin's web app. Frowny face NF T trash pod friends.io. vs. Podcast namespace and value for value player. pod friend.com. True shots fired. That's true. Spicy. Yeah,

Tom:

pod friend.com is an app that were one of the first apps to implement a lot of the podcasting 2.0 features and stuff we've talked to Martin before. Great guy, great product. Love what he's doing for the space. The other one that Dave is mentioning, clearly seems like a rip off of the original pod friend. I don't know about NF T trash but haven't I haven't actually gone yeah, it did not have you

Matt:

seen this website? Which one the pod friend or pod friends?

Tom:

Oh, I did see this. You can like by your characters. This is pod friends.io. I do not recommend that people go there. What is their NF T's d by dolphins walruses whales.

Matt:

What is this nonsense?

Tom:

Because they travel in pods?

Matt:

Yep. The Traveling pods.

Unknown:

No one's gonna make that association.

Tom:

No, that's why they had to put it up at the top.

Matt:

You have to explain it. It's yeah, that's exactly it. Like if you have to explain it. Like if you have to explain your concept to people and that like you need to you need to rebrand.

Unknown:

jokes are funny. Okay, even though you have to explain them. That's not a bad joke. Okay, that's, that's Oh,

Matt:

does it still say coming?

Unknown:

Launching may 2022. Well, yeah,

Matt:

so go to pod friend.com Not pod friends.io. That's, that's the lesson here. And I agree that it is an empty trash.

Tom:

Thanks, Dave Jones for the SATs. Thanks for the feedback and for standing up for pod friend.com

Matt:

Thanks for listening and keep podcasting turn the radio switch off. Yeah.

Jordan:

You nailed it.

Matt:

So still got it? Yeah.

Tom:

Only murders in the building!

Jordan:

Only murders in the Building. Season two dropped recently. I remember when season one came out. And I was ecstatic. That there was a TV show starring Steve Martin, Martin Short, Selena Gomez. About podcasters about people starting a podcast. And I was jazzed about it. I posted about it in the Facebook group. I sent a thing in the Buzzsprout chat with you guys. And it was like -crickets- I was the only person apparently on Planet Buzzsprout. That was I did about this show.

Tom:

I was into it.

Matt:

Full transparency, I haven't watched it yet. It's it's one of those things where it's, listen, I got a five year old and a six month old. A lot of things are on the list. When it comes to television,

Tom:

yeah, only murders in the building. I thought I thought I was I was super excited. I mean, I love Steve Martin and Martin Short. And then I love that it's like the old and the young. And it was just, it was great. It was great. So I haven't started Season Two yet. But season one was awesome.

Matt:

So basically just like a jist for anyone who's like, "What on earth are you talking about?" Only Murders in the Building is a TV show that's on Hulu. And essentially, it's about three people who live in the same apartment building. And there's a murder that happens in their building. And they decide to start a true crime podcast because they share a love of podcasts. And so they start one together, and there's so many-- I mean, obviously tomfoolery ensues --but there's so many podcast and podcasting jokes in there that are just chefs kiss. And it's so funny watching, you know, watching the show with like, my husband, he will get the podcast jokes, because he's a podcast listener. Right. And so he'll laugh about that. But then there's other things that they will talk about, like, in particular, there's a scene of Steve Martin and Martin Short trying to record their podcast in a walk in closet. It's stuffy, it's uncomfortable. As a podcaster, like, I think we've all been there at some point where you're in a hot closet, the air conditioning is off. Make your fort. Yeah. Yeah. Make your fort in your blankets. Yeah. So there's, there's just so many things like that, that are so funny as a podcast or watching it that I was laughing at. And, you know, it just went over my husband's head because he's not a podcaster. But it was still really enjoyable for him. Because he listens to podcasts. My mom loves it because she loves like murder mysteries. So I think it's a fantastic show is really good.

Tom:

I think I mean, I think it's going to bring in people in that older demographic into podcasting, right. Oh, yeah, they understand. Oh, I remember now. That's what a podcast is. That's what they were recording in that show that I was watching. Yeah, it

Matt:

is just like it's so fantastic in that sense, but it's also I mean, really, it's just a really solid show. Like great actors, great comedy, great plot. Just really good. It's a comedic mystery, like a dark comedy kind of thing. It's so good. I feel like you guys are pitching the show to me

Tom:

to Netflix slick, man. I've got so much on my list. Really pushing this hard.

Unknown:

Listen once we finish Stranger Things I'll watch it okay, I'll bump it up the list

Matt:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. I'm just trying to get it bumped up the list just a little bit higher. And then everyone can just thank me later because when it first came out, no one wanted to talk about it except me. I'm pushing hard now. Guys. Jordan needs someone to talk to

Tom:

you post anything about it then I'll give you a thumbs up. I'll give you a thumbs up on Basecamp

Jordan:

Guys, I'm really lonely. I Work from home, I don't have friends. I just need someone to like the same shows I like!