29. "What part of my PERSONALITY is ME, and what part is my ADHD?!" 🤔

Hi gorgeous besties! 

In today’s episode: 

Tara's suitcase game is stronggg, Grace is always real but is getting realllly real about her ADHD.

DIVERGENT DILEMMA:

A beautiful trans listener asks "I was wondering if being assigned female at birth is one of the reasons why I was diagnosed late? And if you think that transgender men usually have female ADHD?" 

• We discuss ADHD intersectionality, the interplay between nature and nurture
• Whether there any biological underpinnings of ADHD in women?
• Whether certain ADHD traits are more likely to appear in AFAB people
• How to separate ADHD traits/symptoms from our personalities? "What is me and what is my ADHD?"

IREGGY SEGGY:
We try to alleviate our impulse purchase guilt by comparing reddit confessions 🫠 

- Kayaks, boats, houses, Nutella jars the size of a newborn infant... if you can think of it, someone has impulse purchased it.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

• Tara recommends Sally Rooney's book Intermezzo; neurodivergent themes, awkward tensions - what more could you want? 📚

• Grace recommends a new Japanese reality show on Netflix called 'The Boyfriend,' an understated but GORGEOUS series that she is addicted to 👨‍❤️‍👨

We hope you enjoyyyy and we will be back in your ears next THURSDAY babes!👂🎧

All our love, Tara & Grace xx

(don’t RSD plz, or we will be so so mad)

----------------------------
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❗️ SUBMIT your Divergent Dilemma for us to read on the podcast: https://adhdbesties.com/dilemmas/ (you can stay anon if you like!)


Music by Vocalista


Keywords: ADHD women’s podcast, ADHD for women, ADHD in women, ADHD support for women, ADHD empowerment, ADHD tips for women, ADHD self-care, ADHD strategies for women, neurodivergent women’s experiences, ADHD mental health for women, ADHD personal stories, ADHD late diagnosis, ADHD focus tips, ADHD executive functioning, ADHD and RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria), ADHD coping strategies, ADHD and motherhood, ADHD treatment for women, women’s ADHD podcast, ADHD medication for women, ADHD wellness for women, ADHD community for women, women with ADHD support, ADHD resources for women, ADHD and anxiety in women, ADHD podcast for neurodivergent women.

Transcript

This person says I bought a 7.7 pound bucket of Nutella, imported from Italy. Oh, wow.
After the third day or so, I got so sick of eating it, so I spread it over my body and pretended I was a baby elephant taking a mud bath my roommate, at the time, was not impressed. Good Times would buy it again, though,
hashtag would repurchase five stars.
Hello and welcome to your ADHD besties, the podcast for people whose birthstone is a three year old rogue handbag Mentos covered in lint and or sand. Look here. You
stealing from our Instagram, babe. If
it ain't broke, don't fix it. That was one of my favorite memes that we've ever done. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. Um Mentos, for our American friends, if they're wondering what a Mentos is, yeah, my handbag is full of them.
Yeah, I me too. I don't even know where they come from, because I don't even like probably
your kids. Anyway, I'm Grace Coomer, founder of future ADHD and diagnosed ADHD.
And I'm Tara BRUCE Oh, dietitian and diagnosed ADHD as well.
So Tara, you are back from holiday. Yes, we are finally recording in the same room again. It feels like it's been years, not weeks. Yeah.
How are you then? How was your week? I
am good. I have had a nice week settling back into things. It's always a bit of a shock for my ADHD brain to make a transition. Yeah, but nothing really to report. I'm just feeling relaxed, getting back into the daily routine,
routine. Yeah, and I am happy to report for our listeners, that yesterday we were working and we were heading out to grab lunch, and Tara was like, oh, I need something for my boot. And inside her boot was a whole packed suitcase, like, from her trip, full of stuff. And actually the boot was clear except for that. And I was like, that's actually amazing. Like, we all need to travel around with a packed suitcase in our boot, you've got everything you need on hand. I think ADHD is doing it the correct way by not unpacking after a trip, right? Why
would I do two jobs when I can do one, I just slowly will get things out, wear them, yeah, then they'll go into the wash Yeah. And then they'll come through the wash cycle, and I'll put them away into my cupboards. And also,
I think, as you said, it's hard to transition after coming off a holiday back into real life, so leaving your whole suitcase full of stuff in your car is a way to gently transition,
and it's also really fun, because it gives you a big fright every time you go around a corner.
Yes, today we were reversing what Tara was reversing in a car park. We were both, we heard this thump, and we were like, Did you just hit a car?
No, it was just the suitcase, the
very heavy suitcase still not unpacked. Okay,
what about you, babe, have you had a more successful week for me? Um,
no, I'm gonna be real today. Oh, I have a bit of free. I'm always real. You are, but you're gonna be really, really, really, really real. Yeah, the realist, yeah. Look, I have had a couple of weird weeks, and I thought for I thought for a little while that maybe it was because you were away and I was out of routine, but you're back, and I'm still feeling a bit low motivation, a bit not like myself. And also, I'm in a stage of my cycle where I should have a lot of energy, but I've just been generally finding it so much harder to get and I obviously all ADHD has struggled to get stuff done, but this is, like, way worse than usual, and I'm starting to feel that kind of creeping shame, of like, why can't I just do this? What's wrong with me? And I just want to be real about that, because on this pod, we talk about all of this all the time, and Tara and I are right in there with you. Like, ADHD is something where we're gonna, you know, have this kind of brain our whole lives. And sometimes we feel like, for whatever reason, you know, we've got a little system that's working, or body doubling with someone, and then other times it's just, like, honestly, just hard, really, really hard, much harder than usual, yeah, and,
and it's hard to see the positives in it, and sometimes there aren't any, and that's the thing. I want to make sure that people know that we're not trying to come across as toxically positive about ADHD, but sometimes it's really crappy. But yeah, no, thank you for sharing and being honest. It's so important to hear that from other ADHD is, yeah, it's so important to share and to feel seen, and
we love you. Oh, babe, thank you. Yeah, it's hard to come on the pod and and most weeks like it's you can find positive things, but it's hard to come on and feel like, I don't want to bring anyone else down, but also I just want people to know, no matter how their week's been, that Tara and I have those moments often too. Yes, we do. And like this, end of the year is hard. Everyone starts getting tired. And I think the difference between a neurotypical and an ADHD, because my husband's also been saying, like, October is often when he just hits a slump, but because he's neurotypical, he just kind of goes, I've just hit a slump, whereas ADHD is go. There's something more wrong with me this month, my ADHD is so much worse, and actually it's probably just also correlated with the natural slump that most of us get, but we have that internalized, able. Ism that can make us feel like it's our ADHD that's worse, but just our energy levels are lower, totally. Okay, okay, let's
move on, and let's get into some wrecks. Okay,
do you have a wreck for me today?
I do. While I was on holiday, I had the time to read a book. Oh, glorious. I know, which has not happened to me in a long time, like a physical book. I read Sally Rooney's new book into metzo, yeah, and I just love her writing. Yeah, she is a beautiful writer. I know that's not hugely original to love Sally Rooney's books, because that's okay, very popular.
She's popular for a reason. She is,
and I think that she really, her writing really resonates with me as a person who's neurodivergent, because she discusses the nuances and complexities of conversations and relationships so beautifully and really goes there. And there's definite neurodivergent themes in this book, and she captures those like awkward tensions and that feeling that a lot of neurodivergent people experience, of that uncertainty after social interactions and then not feeling in sync with the with the world around us. And I just loved, I loved this book. I couldn't recommend it more amazing. Yes, so Sally Rooney intermezzo,
I love that. I'm going to add it to my list. I don't read enough fiction, and I have been getting into it lately, so I'm looking for more. Now that I've had a taste of it, I need more fiction in my life. Yeah, it's
just, I love escaping, yeah, just having a little I was on holiday, but I was also on holiday, yeah, in terms of my imagination, it was just really nice, yeah, yeah. Okay. Love what about you, babe? What magnificent recommendation do you have for us? So I
have discovered a new reality show that I'm obsessed
with. Love this. Yes,
I stumbled on it by accident. Yep, it is called the boyfriend. Oh, my God, it's on Netflix. This
sounds right up my alley already, and I've only heard two words about
and I'm just going to read the the synopsis. Yes. Okay, so the boyfriend is a Japanese reality dating show on Netflix, and it's the nation's first same sex dating program, and it came out a few months ago this year. So it's pretty new. The show features a cast of nine Japanese and East Asian men who identify as gay or bisexual living together in a house called the Green Room. Each day, one cast member is selected to run the coffee truck that all of the members have to work in, and they select one other participant to work with them so that they can spend some quality time with them. So basically, it's a reality show where people live in a house, which is a sort of common trope, but they actually have to create this little coffee shop business. They name it together. They all go out in the coffee van together, and they spend this quality time and actually have something to do, and they earn money. And it's just absolutely stunning.
This sounds like all of my favorite things combined.
It's really different to love Island. Love is blind. The energy of those kind of shows that are more like Hollywood produced, quite dramatic. Yeah, it's really understated. Yeah, it's just different. It's different to what I've seen before, and it's compelling. So, yeah, that's my recommendation.
I love that. I'm definitely gonna watch. Yeah, great, Rick,
you did blow it out
of the water. Oh, yeah, babe. Okay. Shall we get into some divergent dilemmas? Yes,
I can't wait.
So I think before we get into it, yeah, we need to have a disclaimer. Yes, I agree, because we might go rogue. In fact, we will go rogue. Going rogue is
kind of my favorite, but probably best to just disclaim away. Yes, okay, so how about this? Take everything we say with a neurodivergent grain of salt, yes,
an enormous grain of salt, like a salt lamp, sized grain of salt. Take that salt lamp, throw it through a window. That's how much you should pay attention
to what we're saying. But don't act. Don't actually throw it through a window, though.
Oh yeah, see, that's a really good example of why you shouldn't take our tasting
points. But yeah, we're not professionals and enjoy.
Hi, so I am a 36 year old newly diagnosed ADHD, and I found your podcast the day after I was officially diagnosed. Whoo, I was diagnosed with the combined type, so I'm both inattentive and hyperactive. Your podcast has helped me a lot, and then in brackets, they've said, okay, so I was diagnosed on the 24th of June this year, and I've listened to every episode two times already, but it has made me think or actually stress about two things, one apart from so called communicative hiccups, like saying weird impulsive things and skin picking, which they've said is their greatest stim my hyperactivity is. Mostly in my head. My thoughts are constantly racing, but I'm a shy introvert on the outside, from what I've heard, this is very typical for girls slash women with ADHD. I was assigned female at birth, but I have been living as a man since 2009 with hormone replacement therapy and everything. And when I told my psychiatrist, he basically said, Okay, that makes sense then. So I was wondering if me being assigned female at birth is one of the reasons why I was diagnosed late, and if you think that transgender men usually have quote, unquote female ADHD, does this make any sense at all? It absolutely makes sense. Number two, I have always had a good sense of who I am, like. I know what I like and what my values are, etc. But after listening to the podcast, I can't stop thinking like, what if the things I think make me me aren't me, but rather ADHD burnout from masking 24/7 and from not setting up boundaries for myself? What if I'm not a bitter, socially awkward person who never talks about feelings. What if my entire life has been one long session of dysregulated ADHD, I feel very lost in this, and I don't really know where to start. Thank you. And then they've said English is also my fourth language. Wow. So sorry for any weird mistakes. I don't think no any weird mistakes. It was perfect. Okay. What a big, complex question.
Yeah, thank you for for writing in. Firstly, thank
you so much for writing in. The first thing that I want to point out is that people often don't realize that individuals with ADHD are significantly more likely to identify as part of the LGBTQIA plus community in terms of this listener, the experience of a transgender man who was assigned female at birth regarding ADHD traits, this is a profoundly complex question to answer, and there's going to be a confluence of both biological and societal factors, yeah, so it's not going to be one or the other, yeah. But we also wanted to talk at the top about not being able to speak to this from personal experience. Obviously, both of us are extremely passionate about transgender rights, and we've both researched intersectionality a lot in terms of ADHD and the LGBTQIA plus community, but we think to round this out properly, we are going to follow this up with an interview with a with an ADHD trans man, just to discuss their lived experience in one of our subscriber episodes. Yeah, so that we can get this really full and rounded. So what we're going to be talking about today is more of what the research suggests. And then we want to hear some lived experiences.
Yeah, yes. Love that. I want to start with something that you mentioned in the intro there. You spoke about the confluence of biological and environmental factors in shaping a person. And I want to get into that first, because I think that is a really significant part of the question. Yeah. So as humans, all aspects of our personality are sort of crafted, both from hormones that are present during the gestational process that impact sort of inbuilt things in our brain wiring, and then also things in our environment after we're born that could be anything from how our family is constructed, the gender we're assigned at birth, where we're born in the world, cultural significance and factors like that,
yeah, so the interplay between nature and nurture? Yeah,
exactly. And that's going to look different for every single person. And so it's not as simple as being able to just separate out our ADHD from our gender from our cultural upbringing. They're all constantly overlapping, and it's a very bi directional relationship, where one impacts the other, which impacts the other. It's like a chicken and egg situation in a lot of ways. Neither of us are neuroscientists, but we do love jumping into the research on this.
The research suggests that in terms of those chemical differences, the brains of amab and AFAB individuals do have differences that can influence behavior and cognitive processing. For example, research suggests that hormonal exposure during really critical developmental periods, so during gestation, during childhood, during puberty, can shape neural pathways. And these this shaping of neural pathways can potentially predispose individuals to certain traits. So there might be some biological underpinnings there. Yep, for example, like estrogen and progesterone can affect how our emotions are processed and regulated, and that might contribute to the emotional sensitivity of someone who might be assigned female at birth? Yeah, with ADHD, yeah,
absolutely, very complicated it is. So now, if a person might be more likely to be raised in our society with the gender roles that we have to be more nurturing, yes, accommodating, to mask more in social situations, yes, to be more emotionally. Exp. Aggressive, yeah, yeah, to be allowed to whereas someone who was a Mab might not, yeah, crying is more discouraged. You have to be a tougher sort of male in that, in that gender role, yeah. Also, we're a race to be people pleases a lot of the time, to be polite, to defer to other people's authority. So all of those things really contribute to how ADHD, then is expressed, yeah
and repressed, yes, exactly.
And this social and gender conditioning, yeah is one of the factors that could very likely impact on a trans man's experience of his ADHD, yeah,
definitely, yeah, absolutely.
There are a lot of layers. Yes, I
particularly love that note on masking as well grace, because I do know as a as someone who is assigned female at birth, I have struggled a lot in my life with being hyperactive physically, and it's not as commonly seen. And I noticed in childhood that little boys, if I did the same thing as them to regulate my body and get my energy out, I would be told off a lot more by the adults in my life, and it was not acceptable. And on the flip side of that, obviously, there's very negative societal norms that are put onto boys as well, about not being able to be emotional, especially back then, I think what I've noticed in my own experience is that often people who are raised as girls will end up in burnout because they've had to mask a lot of their physical traits and have felt like they're not allowed to be as loud or as boisterous. And then I will notice in people that I talk to in our community, who was who were raised as boys, will often experience burnout from not being able to express their emotions, and because they're dealing with this emotional dysregulation that they feel that they can't they don't even know where to start with. Also, in terms of this listener asking if this could result in misdiagnosis or late diagnosis, if we're masking in a way that hides our symptoms so that they're not as physical, they're a lot harder to see. So in a nutshell, if you've been raised as a girl and had those gender norms imposed on you to hide your symptoms, your physical symptoms, then it's very likely that it's going to be harder for people to be able to pick up on that if
you're not expressing those physically as much. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I think so far in the research we've seen, you know, in the later half of the 20th century, a huge focus on how ADHD presents in men and young boys, and then we've seen a huge pendulum swing back towards how ADHD is exhibited in women and girls. I don't think ultimately ADHD is going to stay in this binary state of how it's presented in males versus females? Yes, I think it's really just that there has needed to be a focus on women because there was such a focus on men. But more and more research is starting to look into non binary experiences, into trans experiences of ADHD. And really, from what I've been reading, it doesn't really seem like there's a male version or a female version of ADHD at all. It seems like there is just brains that are developing with a range of factors influencing them. Yeah, yeah. And that is what the research is going to continue to show. That there are so many layers to how we are as humans, and ADHD impacts that, and gender impacts that, and cultural upbringing in the practice that, and so many other aspects as well, yeah,
and the interplay of all of these factors that we just talked about. So the interplay of the chemical and neurological influences, then the gender roles, and then also those and how they interact with each other is just makes it all so complicated that each person has their own particular fingerprint, and we can't really say this is a female trait or a male trait. Like you always say that everyone has their own constellation of neurodivergents, and I love that. It's so true. Yeah,
yeah. Another thing that comes up in a lot of academic research around ADHD is the impact of what's called life stresses on our ADHD symptoms. ADHD is rarely seen as a static experience across a lifetime. We know for women, when they reach a life stage around menopause, say, or around going from full time work into full time care of children, our ADHD symptoms can change and get far more intense. And the same occurs when we have life stresses, like grief, financial hardship, yes, comorbidities. And another thing that's really present and in really important in the conversation around queer rights is minority stresses, yes. So those are things that are life stresses, but are particularly around. On stigmas faced in our society around being trans, being gay, being bisexual, being queer in general. And so when you're already facing so much stress as a minority group, your experience of neurodivergence is likely to be more stressful because you're in a minority and facing stigma. And therefore that could impact on your ADHD traits, how they show up, and it could make those executive functioning deficits more extreme,
yeah, intensify those traits? Yeah, yeah.
That's a fantastic point, and that speaks to that last part of this listener's question around I've always had this good sense of who I am, but I am, I actually not this bitter, socially awkward person who never talks about feelings. We can't answer that, obviously, but take what Grace said and really have a think about how much pressure there is when you are living with intersectionality, when you are living with neurodivergence, as well as being in a minority group, yeah, and how hard that would be on you, and how much executive functioning and energy that takes, yeah? Because
when you're having to advocate for a multitude of rights, that that also requires executive functioning, yes, of course, and extra admin. And in regards to that part of the question around who would I be if I wasn't masking all the time, if I wasn't in burnout constantly, I definitely identify with wondering that and thinking if I hadn't made certain, you know, choices around careers and having children at certain ages. You know, if I hadn't have also had Generalized Anxiety along with my ADHD, yes, what, who would I be, and what part of it is just That's my ADHD and my anxiety, and what part of it is actually grace? It's such a good question, and I think that's part of the journey of exploration, which is so individual for each person. And one thing that I think can really help with the masking is that if we can find a group specifically for that aspect of our identity, we feel we have to mask around, or we're feeling like we have trauma around finding a group, in this case, it could be a neuro affirming trans group, and you can find those online, on Facebook, in Reddit threads, yes, yeah. And joining that as and seeing that as a space where you can fully unmask and be yourself, yes. And in that kind of group, you can see other people's experiences, and you can also let yourself be seen, yes, and it can help you kind of sort through your feelings, decipher everything, yeah, tangle, yeah. So it's sort of hard to separate things from our real life, but being in a group specifically for that purpose can be a way to do that.
That's fantastic advice. Okay, I want to make one last point here, yeah, it's very I know that I'm a broken record. It's like Tara self love trope, yes, which we love. But I just want to say, when you're questioning that last bit, what if I'm not a bitter, socially awkward person who never talks about feelings? I just want you to question that and whether that could be part of your ADHD, and that you are living with perfectionism and you're judging yourself way too harshly. RSD, yes, because I know that this is just one email, but you don't come across as bitter or socially awkward, and definitely not someone who never talks about feelings. You have sent us this beautifully eloquent email about your feelings, and you're someone who wants to learn about yourself. And I
wonder as well if this is a safe space, and I think that sometimes when people do feel bitter or resentful or prickly. It might be because it's protective as well, because our societies are not neuro affirming, yes, they're not queer affirming, and so we have to do so much fighting for ourselves. Definitely.
I
think that is such a great point, and I think maybe you can think of society as being Prickly, not you, yeah,
yeah. And you're obviously, you've got a tough exterior, protectively, but you've got a really soft side, yeah? So embracing both of those as as they're needed. Yeah, yeah.
And again, going back to that, finding those groups and yeah, using that to help you to decipher, like, what is my armor and what is me? And why was my armor formed? You know?
Why did I need to have this?
And we say this every time, but we'll say it again. Yes, please. If you're really struggling with mental health, or you want help working through this cognitive dissonance? Yeah, finding a psychologist that specializes in the trans experience and, if possible, also in ADHD or neuro divergence? Yes, highly recommend. They are. They can be hard to find, but
we would hope that in 2024
we have access to things like online consults that mean that you can speak with someone that understands you at that level, and they don't have to be in the same town as you. I also suspect that it might be more valuable to see someone who understands you at that deep level once Yes, than to see. Someone who doesn't understand your particular intersectionality, yes 100 times, yeah. And so to prioritize that and make that a focus of your healing, yeah? And even
again, going into those trans groups, those neuro affirming groups and asking for recommendations, yes, for people who see clients online in your country? Yeah, that's definitely a good place to start. So to this gorgeous listener who's written in and to anyone else who is identifying with this experience, sending you all so much love. Yes, thank you for trusting us with your story, and we will have a guest on soon to speak about the lived experience. As Tara said, Yeah, la, la La, la, la,
la, Okay, we're back. We've had a chocolate break. Today's reggae Sega is another version of one of our favorite segments called Reddit rants, yes, and today, we are going to be talking all about impulse purchases, because ADHD is definitely make some dubious purchases, yes, based only on dopamine. So we're going to be reading out some Reddit threads, yes, about the stupidest or worst impulse purchases people have made,
and this is so affirming. Yes. Makes me feel so much better about myself. Okay,
let's do it.
Okay. Why don't you go first? Huh? Okay. What have you got?
So this person says
I purchased the most powerful commercially available megaphone I had, and still have no need for it, but I like looking at it and knowing I have a megaphone.
Yeah, that's BDE right there, that megaphone
high on a shelf,
intimidating people as they come in the room. I
could be way louder than you if I wanted to. Yes, she's the threat.
Okay, yes, I
love that. This person says, got drunk, ordered bagpipes.
What? Where does one even order bagpipes?
How you ended up on a bagpipe website beyond me, and then it says, edit, yeah, I bought the bagpipes about six years ago with my first tax return, and they cost about $167
off eBay. Yeah,
I don't know what brand slash type they are. I tried to play them once or twice, but I could only make the majestic sound of an elephant dying. I'm selling them to a friend whenever I get around to finding all the parts, so much sounds like an ADHD is worse night and you're like, not only is the instrument incredibly loud and dysregulated, but it has a million small parts. I'm also
obsessed with the friends impulse buying them now, because surely the friend doesn't need them anyway, okay?
Night Vision Goggles, comma, serious ones,
as opposed to non serious ones.
They were and are really cool. I believe
problem is a flashlight is just so much more practical for taking the trash out and walking the dog and not looking like a creeper in my residential neighborhood.
A lot of much thought these people have put into these purchases. Okay?
Okay, so this person says I bought a 7.7 pound bucket of Nutella, imported from Italy. Oh, wow.
How many kilos is that?
I need to know? Let's
do a quick conversion,
7.4 pounds. 7.7 pounds. Okay, 7.7 Well, it's the size of a newborn baby, isn't it?
Babies like, yeah,
it's a size of a newborn, three
and a half kilos. Okay, massive.
After the third day or so, I got so sick of eating it, so I spread it over my body and pretended I was a baby elephant taking a mud bar.
My brother, neurodivergence is strong.
My roommate, at the time, was not impressed. Good Times would buy it again,
though, hashtag would repurchase five stars.
Oh, my God. Oh, the ant situation after that would stress me out. Okay? This person says I was living in Hawaii in my 20s, and I came home drunk one night and started watching infomercials. I ended up purchasing $300 worth of cognitive enhancing brain pills to improve the memory of senior citizen. Distance,