30. ADHD & ANXIETY: Tara's story of motherhood, postpartum anxiety & depression 💜

Hi besties, we have something a little bit different for you this week!

First up, we're struggggling to do admin tasks, but on the plus side we were so bored at the bank that we used the hand sanitiser 200 times so our hands are super dry 🫠

In this raw and honest episode of Your ADHD Besties, Tara opens up about her personal journey with anxiety and how it intersects with her ADHD. She dives deep into the complexities of living with anxiety from childhood all the way through her postnatal experience, where she also faced postpartum depression. Tara shares how ADHD has shaped her experience with her mental health, and how navigating both ADHD and anxiety has sometimes been a tricky balance.

Throughout this unfiltered conversation, Tara explores the role of medication in her life—how anxiety medication (SSRIs) and ADHD stimulants have played a part, and the challenges of managing multiple diagnoses. She also opens up about her experiences with dyscalculia, dysgraphia, and OCD, and how these conditions impact her and their interplay with ADHD.

If you're struggling with depression or anxiety, know that you're not alone and help is available. Reach out to a mental health professional, talk to someone you trust, or find a helpline in your country here.

RECS:
• Tara recommends the Tarte Tartelette Amazonian Clay Matte Palette... Highly pigmented, natural looking matte eyeshadows that's so good that she has been scraping the crumbs out of the bottom.

• Grace recommends this burnout meditation on the Insight Timer App
Cooked? Us too, this week Grace suggests a free 20 minute guided meditation.

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Keywords: ADHD women’s podcast, ADHD for women, ADHD in women, ADHD support for women, ADHD empowerment, ADHD tips for women, ADHD self-care, ADHD strategies for women, neurodivergent women’s experiences, ADHD mental health for women, ADHD personal stories, ADHD late diagnosis, ADHD focus tips, ADHD executive functioning, ADHD and RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria), ADHD coping strategies, ADHD and motherhood, ADHD treatment for women, women’s ADHD podcast, ADHD medication for women, ADHD wellness for women, ADHD community for women, women with ADHD support, ADHD resources for women, ADHD and anxiety in women, ADHD podcast for neurodivergent women.

Transcript

I felt so guilty. You know, I had these ideas of wanting to be at home with my kids, and I couldn't wait to do painting and all of these different things with my kids. I had these grand plans of what kind of mum I would be, and I went through such a big phase of feeling horrible that I wasn't that kind of mum that wanted to do puppet shows and all of those things.
Hello and welcome to your ADHD besties, the podcast for people who cannot think of anything worse than having to do business administration. I'm Tara BRUCE Oh, dietitian and diagnosed ADHD. And I'm Grace Coomer, founder of future ADHD, and diagnosed ADHD as well. So Grace, with that little gentle bit of foreshadowing, tell the listeners about what we've been up to this week. It's basically only been Business Administration, and it's been hell. I can't even say the word.
It's the worst words, and Tara and I like we love the creative side of what we do. Yes, love, love, love, love, love. But then there's this ugly underbelly
where you have to have an accountant and you have to sign stuff. You have to be and you're sitting there going, I'll never read through this in a million years, but I should, and I get killed. I should be reading what I'm signing, but I'm not. Yeah, no, and we both try our best, but it exhausts us. Exhausting. Yeah. So this week, we had to set up a bank account. We had to have a meeting. Tara was meant to bring her passport. I messaged her the night before, somehow didn't see the message rocks up without the passport. So we did a one hour round trip to get the passport. We did. We did, and then we arrived at the bank all ready to go. Yep, who has the official document? I was meant to bring the official documents. Neither of us. Neither of us. No, we didn't bring so then we couldn't do the bank appointment, no. And then there was more rescheduling, which is just a nightmare for ADHD. These things we've talked about it before with Centrelink or government support, those sorts of jumping through hoops. They're just designed for neurotypical brains. Yeah? And we just wilt. Yeah, we do. I think I hand sanitize like 50 times, because that was the only exciting thing to do.
So clean and so dry. Oh my God, no, yes. So that was our week. Yeah, on that side, though, when we were speaking with the banker, we told her we have ADHD and we advocated. And it opened up a little conversation, which was nice. It did, yeah, you had ADHD too. Yeah, lovely. It's cute. It was okay. Do you have a little recommendation for us? Grace, I do. I was inspired by our recent app where we spoke about meditation and how we can kind of relax our brains by doing like hobbies and stuff like that, to recommend an amazing, free guided meditation, because it's really hard to find ones that I think are good for ADHD brains and aren't too like.
This one starts it's all about burnout, which I love. And it's important to like find ones that you can go back to every time you feel this way. Firstly, it's cleanly recorded, which is important. And then she also starts out by saying, you're feeling burnt out, you're exhausted, you're cooked, and I just feel like that. Love to hear I'm cooked. I am. Yeah, that made me feel seen. It was feeling, you know, maybe you're dehydrated and the world is feel, you know, like it's, you want someone to just kind of call it like cooked. You're cooked. You're bloody cooked. So I'm gonna link that one in the show notes. It's on the Insight Timer app. It goes for about 20 minutes. Oh, nice, long one. Yeah, it's like, I feel like that's a good length. You know, sometimes when they're five minutes, I feel like I want to sink in. Just let it take me away. And when it's guided, you don't have to do any work. Yeah, the Insight Timer app is free, which is another big thing. Yeah, it's a free one. So, yeah, go and check it out if you're feeling burnt out or exhausted or cooked, cooked. Yeah, that's it. Sounds amazing, babe. What about you? Do you have a wreck for me this week? So my wreck is a makeup wreck. Love, and you know me? Yes, I'm a long time makeup user. Yes, she's a makeup nerd, big makeup fan. Yeah, I read all of the stuff. She knows, all the ingredients. I know, the ingredients I look I look at tick tocks, I listen to reviews. I just, if I'm buying something, it's a big deal. You're like, a makeup encyclopedia. I am. We'll go into a pharmacy or a makeup shop and I'll be like, I'm just looking for you. Like, this one or this one. Yes, these are, this is why they go and they go with this. This is why I can't do algebra, because it got pushed out of my brain so that I Yeah, okay, so yeah,
this makeup rack, it's an eyeshadow palette, yeah. And I have used this eyeshadow palette until most of the colors are completely gone. Some of them I didn't use at all, yeah. But.
Most of them are completely gone, and that's never happened to me before. Wow, babes, you've literally been scraping the crumbs out of the clothes. Have been crumb scraping.
So this palette is my tart cosmetics, yep, and it's called tartlet Amazonian Clay Matte Palette, okay, which I feel is not that snappy of a name, yeah, it's giving really like it's I'm not, yeah,
it's not what I thought it would be. Yeah, what would look good? No, it, but it does okay. So there's a few things. Firstly, tart, make long wear makeup, yeah, and it's really highly pigmented, yeah, and so you just need a little bit yeah. But I think the key here is that it's matte. I just feel that I have shiny shimmery eyeshadows, yeah. I don't tend to use them every day, that for more fun stuff, and I have always found it quite hard to use a shimmer in a really, like, daytime, everyday kind of way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I had to wear glitter eyeshadow for Halloween yesterday for my costume, and when I wiped it off, it went all over my face. So it's such an executive functioning nightmare for an ADHD where you're just like, My makeup is already hard enough to get off, but now I'm like, getting glitter all over my bed and my pillow, and it's, is it still on my face? Now she does look a little bit Edward Cullen today, or do I
this is the skin of a killer Bella,
okay, so it's wonderful.
It stays on. Natural looking. Doesn't look like you have makeup on, yeah, but they're just beautiful colors. And I highly recommend, and that is a bottom of the pan recommendation. It is not often that you get to the bottom of an eyeshadow pan. Yeah? So when you what's pen, you said palette before it's pen, a pan is like the individual one, oh, like the metal square the dish, yeah? And it's not common that people will get to the bottom of one of those pans, yeah, within like, a year period, yeah, yeah. But with this one, I did, okay, go check it out. We'll link it as always. We will, because I'm not going to remember the name of that, the Amazonian Clay, matte clay, Amazonian palette. Yeah, remember that? No, no, I don't know.
Okay, it's time for our dilemma segment. But today we're actually going to do something a bit different, because Tara and I are getting ready to launch a subscription alongside this weekly free episode. People have been asking us for more content, and we are obsessed with this idea. We would love to give you guys more episodes, and we are going to do that with a subscription. So in the subscription, we'll have different types of episodes. Some of them will be Q and A's. Some of them will be a reggae segues, like extended ones that are a lot of fun, or maybe reviews of TV shows that we've been watching, that kind of thing. Yeah, interviews with guests. Yep. And we're also going to be doing deep dives, because we feel like often we'll cover a topic in a dilemma, but we actually want to devote a whole episode to it and really dig deep into the experience of that for an ADHD. And there's also some things that only one of us has experienced and the other one can't really speak to so today I'm going to interview Tara about her experience with anxiety and depression as a person with ADHD, and look at that across different stages of her life. So we'll talk about pregnancy and prenatal anxiety. We'll talk about postnatal depression and generalized anxiety in other stages of her life as a mother, yeah, and we're going to get into it. So are you ready? Tara, I am ready. Let's do the hot seat, baby I am let's do it.
So, Tara, oh, we're serious. I know game face.
Let's start with your childhood, I want you to tell me about the first time or some of your first experiences with anxiety and whether you told your parents or whether you saw a doctor, what was the journey like for you at that stage? So I find it hard to separate out the different parts of my brain, my personality versus my anxiety, my obsessive compulsive disorder, my ADHD.
I've got a lot going on in this beautiful brain that I used to have a really hard time loving, but I am learning to love now that I'm in my 30s. But that separation of traits versus personality that we talked about in last week's episode, I do find that really difficult, yeah, and as a young girl, I'm not sure if it was anxiety ADHD, a combination of both, or just me, but I felt that I wasn't able to be a child for as long as I felt my peers were, I don't know if that makes sense, but I felt like I noticed things that were going on. I was much more aware of the more adult themes in life, so things like worrying about finances, worrying about my parents and what they were up to and whether they were okay, worrying about fam.
Family members,
worrying about the state of the world and things like that, I would worry a lot more than I think my friends would, which indicates that I had anxiety from a young age. I wasn't officially diagnosed with anxiety until I was in my 20s, but upon reflection, I experienced anxiety from quite a young age, and that worry was definitely impacted by my ADHD symptoms or traits. So for example, I remember I couldn't keep secrets as a child. I found that so hard, and then I would tell someone's secret, because I was really impulsive, and then that secret would get told, and then I'd be so anxious about that, that that was going to come out, and that I was going to be in trouble, and it was, it was a really stressful thing for me as an adult. Now, I can keep things secret,
but I still struggle, I think, with the concept of secrecy, because I think that it can be really dangerous to people so not talking about certain things, if everyone's keeping them secret, then everyone feels really alone in them. I don't completely connect with the idea of a secret. And obviously, if a friend comes to me now and they say, you know, I'm going through this, and it's something really personal to them and and if they ask me to keep a secret, I can keep it a secret, because my impulse Can I now have a fully formed prefrontal cortex? Yeah, but I still do struggle with that idea. I don't know if we should be so secretive as human beings. I think a problem shared is a problem halved, yes, which, by the way, is a saying that I thought that I made up until
my husband was like, you, you didn't make that up. And I was like, no, no, I
but no, I did not, um, I was like, Tara, you genius,
yes. So I definitely had that. I also experienced a lot of judgment for my physical hyperactivity, and that really impacted me negatively. I also have dysgraphia, which is learning disability that affects a lot of people with ADHD. And basically you find it really hard to write slowly or to space your words properly or to get a comfortable grip. So even now, as an adult, I find writing really annoying if I'm writing handwriting. So it's not so much. My dysgraphia was never a problem in terms of, you know, I've always been able to actually like legibly write, but I find holding the pen properly practicing that skill of, like, getting all of your letters the same size and stuff, very boring and just frustrating, frustrating, I guess, yeah, and that, I think, is part of the fact that I'm really physically hyperactive, yeah, whereas I found a lot of the other girls in my class did not experience that, you know, it was like they could sit and focus and Write, but I just don't want to be I don't want all the energy in my body to be focused down on one point. Yeah, so that all caused me, that caused me a lot of anxiety as well, just feeling really different in that way. Yeah, I love that you shared that Tara, because I think that it's really common for neurodivergent kids to sort of have an old soul, to have that sort of ability from a young age, to see big topics and the existentialism of things, or like, analyze really adult topics, but they don't have the prefrontal cortex yet to be able to put that in perspective. Yes, and I think that that intensity and the bigness of some of the questions that they ask creates anxiety, because they don't yet have, you know, that ability to work through it logically? No. And I see that a lot with my own nine year olds as well. And I relate from my childhood as well being that kind of kid with that constant, worried energy thinking about things that a lot of my peers, as you said, were just not concerned about. Yeah, I think it also you touched on the fact that you felt different. And I think that it's sort of like a chicken and an egg thing, because when your brain is built, brain is built that way and you feel different, that difference also causes anxiety, yes, and then constantly being perceived by people, being commented on, feeling like, you know, in a school environment where there's a lot of structure and a lot of patients required to do book work and stuff, when you don't fit that, yes, it's going To actually, it's like compounded anxiety, and it's sort of hard to see the true root cause of it. So yeah, also the combination, I think, reflecting back of anxiety and ADHD together in my childhood was tricky, because I think I've ruminated on things for a lot longer than maybe my peers would. So for example, I remember my cousin, who's a couple of years older than me, she had a sleepover for her birthday party because I was her cousin. I was coming, but she was, I think she was 13, and I was about 11, and they watched scream, the movie, the horror film, and it absolutely traumatized me. I couldn't sleep for weeks and weeks and weeks.
And I hear that, speaking to a lot of women in the ADHD community, that there are a lot more, there does seem to be a higher incidence of things like phobias or things that we can get stuck on because we have those sticky brains, yeah, and so that did cause me a lot of anxiety, those things that I would ruminate on and just get stuck in those loops of so I definitely think that was a contributing factor, and that's where ADHD played a big part. Yeah, yeah. And often, as well, adults will tell you, don't worry. Don't worry about it. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I had, I had a high school teacher would always tell me, don't look so worried. And you that makes you more worried, yeah, because you think you're not worried, yeah, yeah, I'm worried. And now I'm worried that I'm worried, yeah, and that I can't stop worrying because I should just be able to switch it off. That was very 90s, you know, don't have anxiety. Oh, okay, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, easy and Sure, sure, done. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So moving forward in your timeline, you mentioned that you were diagnosed with anxiety as an adult. Was that at the same time as your ADHD diagnosis? No, so I just want to take you back a little bit to why I was diagnosed with anxiety. So
I moved when I was 15, from New Zealand, where I lived my whole life, away to Western Australia with my mum and my brother, and after I finished high school in Western Australia, I moved back to New Zealand because I had all of my close friends that I'd grown up with there, so I didn't have my mom and my brother, who were my close family unit. And I moved back there, and I was out of home for the first time, and I just wasn't looking after myself. I was smoking cigarettes and drinking lots and not sleeping and just not not looking after myself, and that led to me being really, really anxious, to the point that one day I had my first panic attack. This is after a couple of years, and if you've experienced panic attack, everyone
can experience panic attacks differently. But for me, it wasn't what I expected it to be like, like what you see in the movies and stuff. Yeah. So for me, it's not this adrenaline filled sort of heavy breathing stuff. For me, it's complete I'm completely calm. I've been I've had a lot of adrenaline and being anxious leading up to that point, but I'm completely calm by that point, and it's almost like my brain switches gears, yep. And suddenly I'm calm, but I'm certain that I'm about to die, yeah? Just there's my every bone in my body is certain that I am about to die. It's the freeze response, yeah. And so I made my boyfriend, at the time, take me to the hospital, and, you know, I ended up not going inside because I couldn't work out what actual part of me was, the part that was about to die, or that what I needed to get checked? Yeah? You gaslight yourself. Yeah, yes. After that, I had anxiety, which a lot of people will experience, about not wanting to have a panic attack again. It's the worst feeling that I've ever experienced. And so I was anxious. I was extremely anxious following that, about not going back into that. And I was extremely anxious about going to sleep at night, because I couldn't connect that, when you go to sleep, how do you how are you sure that you're not going to die? So I had this really severe anxiety. I ended up moving back in with my mum. I saw a psychologist, and they diagnosed me with anxiety, with generalized anxiety disorder. And that was really helpful at the time, it was cognitive behavioral therapy. So a lot of you know, noticing your thoughts and letting them just be there.
It helped me to get a lid on it so that I wasn't having panic attacks, but it still was omnipresent, something that I was experiencing all the time, sort of simmering under the surface. Yes, and I had to do a lot to prevent my anxiety from rearing its ugly head. So I had to go for runs every day, not in an obsessive, compulsive way. That was a separate part of my life. Yeah, it's all been very fun,
delightful,
but running every day making sure that, you know, I wasn't drinking too much, making sure that I was really looking after myself. I'd quit smoking at this point, because anything coffee, anything that made me anxious, I couldn't I couldn't do I'm very glad that I quit smoking at that point, though, because that was silver lining. Yeah, big silver lining. So I got a lid on it,
but it was a full time job managing it. Yeah. I was accepted into uni, and I started uni, and then my anxiety was under control somewhat at uni, although, you know, drinking culture and those sorts of things are prominent in Australian university culture, so I was drinking, and drinking has a really negative effect on my ADHD brain. Yeah. And.
Yes, it can on a lot of ADHD brains, where RSD is goes into overdrive, stay and you can worry about what you've said, because the night before, you might have been more impulsive because your inhibitions are lowered. Alcohol can magnify ADHD traits for a lot of people, and it makes you sort of drop the mask as well, definitely. And so
I would get a lot of RSD the next day about how I was acting, so that that played in with into my anxiety. But the reason I was diagnosed with ADHD is because, although I felt that I somewhat had my anxiety under control, looking back now, I would say I didn't, but it was a lot better than it was a couple of years before in New Zealand, so I thought I was doing really doing really well. Yeah, now I just have no tolerance for anxiety. I just don't want to have anxiety ever at all. But yes, we'll get into that later. Yeah. So I was studying, and to me, it felt like when I was in lectures that I was interested in, I almost felt like I had a, like, a photographic or eidetic memory for those things, like I could hear the lecturer say the whole lecture in my head, it felt like so I was interested in it. I could take it on board, which is really common for ADHD brains, that if we're interested in something, we can absorb it really easily. But then doing a dietetics degree, there is a big component of human biology, but also biochemistry, microbiology, things like that, which I was interested in, but because, particularly chemistry, has a specific language to it that you have to learn, and you almost have to just focus and wrote learn these particular parts of the language to then be able to go on and learn the next parts. And it's reminiscent of maths, almost, because there's a lot of symbols and a bit algebraic. Yeah, yes. And that also gave me a lot of anxiety, because, as I've spoken about on the pod before, I have dyscalculia. I've got all the things I hate that as well. And then I R S D, because I'm like, do people think I'm just making up all the words and that I have all the things and blah, blah, blah. But no, I genuinely do struggle with that, with with numbers in my head, yeah. And I think people just to validate you there. I think people a lot of the time oversimplify, yes, and they almost compress something to just one, one idea about something, and a lot of the time, neurodivergence has come with multiple neurodivergences, they do Yeah, and being specific about them helps us feel seen. Yes, if it's starting to feel overwhelming with too many labels like each person, it's up to them to decide, but I think you feel validated through each new realization you've had about yourself. It shows that we're all incredibly complex. Yes, like with dysgraphia, for example, that's not something that has impacted me really negatively throughout my life. I mean, maybe when I was six and we were learning handwriting, and my teacher would call us up and say, What is this piece of crap that you've done compared to everyone else that did cause me anxiety. But nowadays, it's just something that I think is funny and almost endearing. I feel endeared to myself that my handwriting is so messy as a 36 year old woman. You know, I'm like, I'm going to look at that through that lens. That's fine, but it does help me to, I think, deal with some of the shame I had as a six year old that just couldn't sit there and just get those letters perfect. So anyway, back to chemistry. That was really stressful for me and but I really wanted to learn it. I really wanted to be a dietitian. A big part of the reason I wanted to be a dietitian is I felt that I hadn't looked after myself, and that's one of the reasons I ended up getting really sick, which is much too oversimplified, I now know, but
that was a big reason for me wanting to do it, and I was really passionate about making sure that I got through my degree, and I just couldn't focus on this chemistry stuff. And I went to my doctor, and I just said, My anxiety is getting worse because I can't focus. And she must have been light years ahead of her time, because she said, I actually think that you've got ADHD. She could probably see that I was very physically active in the session, so hyperactive and I like grace always points out, I jiggle my legs. I will wring my hands constantly. There's I'll be like, picking at my nails and those sort of things. So I'm always moving. And she happened to pick that up, and I didn't, I didn't believe in ADHD at that time, I was exactly what we fear the most when people, when we tell people that we have, we have ADHD. I was like, no, that's just something that little boys do. I'm not a little boy jumping off the walls and, you know, running around a classroom and not listening and yelling. And it was a different time. It was a different time. And if I can change my mind, guys, so can your relatives and people that you're afraid of telling Yeah, but I was referred to the psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist did their measures on me, and I scored really highly for having ADHD.
Yeah, and so the psychiatrist prescribed me with stimulant medication. And
being someone that had experienced extreme anxiety around
things like coffee, things like smoking cigarettes, I was really anxious to take it, and so I would take almost 25% of what they recommended to me. And I also was, I've always really struggled with sleep, so I was really nervous about that. I was very anti medication my whole life. I just thought, No, and I think that that was the mentality, especially in the 90s and early noughties, was like, don't have medication. It's almost like you failed if you do it. I don't know that was the general idea that I had, which is so completely wrong, and we will get to that a little bit later, but I took only a little bit of that, but it did really help. It meant that I could focus. It meant that if I wanted to, I could focus on this chemistry. And I ended up learning it. One of the most important things to learning it, though, was learning stories around it. So for me, taking it and making it creative. So a good example for human biology. For example, I was getting past marks in human bile. But once I started taking pathogenesis of disease and making that into so rather than rote learning or trying to wrote learn and using things like acronyms, which can be really helpful, for sure, but only if you're doing a small amount of stuff. Myself and my two best friends would sit and work out stories, and because it was creative, we would be able to take on so much more of the information, which I think was helpful for them, but they don't have ADHD. I think it's helpful for most people, because it's combining the two sides of your brain, but for me, that really thrives in that creative side of my brain, it was so helpful. And to this day, the things that I learned through creative stories like I can just recall so easily. It's almost like I said before, eidetic or photographic, and that was just the key for me. And I went from not getting what I wanted out of the degree so it wasn't for lack of wanting. And that annoys me so much about people's view of ADHD is that we can't be bothered. No, we want to. We're sitting there trying, but we cannot get ourselves to do it, and so we end up watching the TV show because we may as well do that instead of sitting there hating ourselves. It's not through lack of wanting. It's through lack or trying. It's through lack of actually being able to connect that and put that into your
brain.
Okay, so moving forward again in your story, to when you were pregnant with your eldest, and I want to know at that stage where the anxiety changed for you again and how that worked in with your ADHD. Can you tell me a bit more about that? So pregnancy was a surprise for me. I was expecting it to be
really hard, because every other hormonal, big hormonal period in my life had been really hard, and there definitely were hard sides of it, the tiredness, the feeling, you know, the nausea and the I had quite bad morning sickness, but not for my whole pregnancy, thankfully. And I can't even imagine how that is for women who go through that. But the one thing that was really surprising was that I was just so much more level in my emotions. And I thought at the time that that was because I wasn't getting my period, but now looking back, it would have been that I wasn't experiencing my PMDD. And before we move on, PMDD stands for pre menstrual dysphoric disorder, which is a far more intense version of premenstrual syndrome or PMS, yes. And so my PMDD is the worst part of ADHD for me, especially before I understood it fully. And so I, yeah, I just had a really level that's all I can explain it, as a level time during my pregnancy, apart from the feelings of feeling sick and those sorts of things, and it was a nice break from the real roller coaster that is my normal hormonal periods. And I just didn't see it coming, because in the past, any hormonal thing wasn't really negative for me, like puberty, my ADHD symptoms were greatly increased, and that's really common trying the contraceptive pill for the first time, or I tried it two or three times, and every time it just I felt like I was at going absolutely insane, like just really didn't, didn't work for me and made me feel so so
unwell mentally. And now I know that that's quite common for women with ADHD.
So I enjoyed my pregnancy, or most of it, and I had a pretty textbook birth with my first son. But then.