023 - Jim Laird with Lessons from a Lifetime S&C Coach

Jim Laird is a strength and conditioning coach at Stillman Wellness, but he’s also one of my early mentors in the strength game. Today’s podcast is a throwback as we reminisce on the hotbed of coaching talent that has come out of Lexington KY in the early 2000’s. 

We dive into a subject I have heard Jim talk about long before is was popular -- the erosion of physical literacy in youth athletes. Jim’s simple approach has always reminded me to keep things simple and be the best beginner coach possible.

We go even further and talk about his simple approach with high level professional athletes.

We diveinto his work with Dr. Stillman and how they are integrating groupch coaching into medical priactice

And finally we talk about his progression from collegiate athlete to elite powerlifter to holistic coach.

Jim is a legend in the game and is one of the most unconsciously competent coaches I’ve ever worked with. If you aspire to have a career in this field, Jim is definitely someone who want to listen to.

You can findout more about Jim's work with Dr. Stillman at www.stillmanwellness.com or Jim's IG account @gymlaird

Transcript

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Today's podcast guest is Jim Laird. Jim Laird is a strength and conditioning coach at Stillman Wellness, but he's also one of my early mentors in the strength game. Today's podcast is a throwback as we reminisce about the hotbed of coaching talent that has emerged out of Lexington, Kentucky, since the early 2000s. We dive into a subject I heard Jim talk about long before it was popular, the erosion of physical literacy in youth athletes. Jim's approach has always reminded me to keep things simple and to be the best beginner coach possible. We go even further and talk about his simple approach with high level professional athletes. We also dive into his work with Dr. Stillman and how they are integrating group coaching into medical practice. And finally, we talk about Jim's own evolution from collegiate athlete to elite powerlifter to holistic coach. Jim is a legend in the game and one of the most unconsciously competent coaches I've ever worked with. If you aspire to have a career in this field, Jim is definitely someone you want to listen to. Before we dive into today's podcast, I want to say a quick word about a program I'm kickstarting, a new pilot program called the Total Coach OS. The big idea is to create a small, intimate 12 week coaching cohort for strength coaches who work with athletes. focusing on building elite training systems so that you can get incredible results, attract driven athletes, and establish yourself as the go to expert in your area. This means delivering better results in less time, retaining athletes for longer, and having more recreation time. Groups like this are invaluable because you can go far, fast, you'll stack insight from other coaches in the cohort, elevate your own standards, 12 weeks than you would in years on your own. Simply put, the Total Coach OS is about helping high caliber coaches get the skills, knowledge, and confidence to deliver devastating results for their athletes and become the go to coach in their community without giving up their personal life to do it. If you want more information, follow and message me on Instagram at Coach Ryan Patrick or email me at athleticpod. com. at gmail. com. That's athleticpod at gmail. com. Without further ado, here is the podcast with Jim Laird.

Ryan Patrick: 2:43

The path of least resistance.

Jim Laird: 2:46

Yeah, I always, in my career, I realized very, very early on that all my friends were trying to get football players and they were trying to, you know, get the big time athletes. And there's nothing, nothing wrong with that at all. But the problem is, is everybody's competing for that football player. And I realized, you know, this is in the late nineties, I realized that. There was thousands and thousands of women that just wanted someone to work with them who wanted to be coached, who enjoyed being coached. And if you gave them, you got them to eat a little more protein and you gave them a really simple straight training program, they absolutely transformed in front of your eyes. And so I filled my roster up with women that were with me all year round and never had to worry about the missing session. Uh, they were very grateful, easy to work with, easy to coach. And then I basically cherry picked my athletes. You know, how, you know, I'd say 75 percent of the people that came to me for an assessment, I turned them away. I'm like, yeah, I did not just fit. You know, whereas my friends, some of my friends that You know, taking loans out on facilities and stuff had to take people, even if they didn't want to work with them, because they needed the money. Right so, um, it's really funny if you had told me when I came out of the University of Arizona. That I was going to end up training 90 percent 95 percent of my clients were going to be women. I told you, you were saying.

Ryan Patrick: 4:06

I think most people get into this and the football players, the basketball players are some of them, like, highest on the pedestal, but also the least. Likely for you to make an impact because I mean, women's female sports are changing. They're, they're definitely getting a lot more club. It's a lot more year round than it used to be. So I think there's, there's kind of a, uh, just increasing difficulty to like find time and capacity and bandwidth to actually fit training. But my football guys, they're like, well, you know, we're already lifting like four days a week and I need to do some more speed training. I'm like, bro, you need a nap. Like what are you talking about?

Jim Laird: 4:46

Well, you know, and for that, I made my, I made a big part of my living and a big part of my, my reputation was built on repairing destroyed football players, you know, guys that got hurt in the weight room. Um, you know, Wendler's talked a lot about that here recently about, you know, chasing the max weights, like, is just completely useless for athletes in general, but specifically for young athletes. And, uh, I mean, I made my living in my, you know, my, my reputation in, in the, uh, early 2000s in Lexington was because I took a kid from a fractured spine. To, you know, division one scholarship run like a 4 2 or 4 3 40 in electric time at Wake Forest, you know, this little skinny 135 pound kid that I took from that to, you know, he was a great athlete to begin with, but he was, you know, he got hurt in the weight room. He weighed like 155 or something or 145. And they had him straddle deadlift 405, like with a split stance deadlift. At a powerlifting meet and he like he fractured his when he was in like a back brace for like 8 to 10 months and he just shriveled up into nothing and we took him from that to, you know, wait for us. And then I got a girl after that who would have 3 ACL surgeries. And was able to get her, you know, she sat me down. So I'm like, what's your goal? She's like, I just want to play my last year of high school and just make it through the season. And then I'm done. I'm like, we can do that. You know? And so after you re you get somebody through that, that have three ACLs and you get them through their senior season with no knee braces and no knee injuries. And you actually take her from the slowest girl on the team to one of the faster girls on the team. Um, it kind of, It kind of gets people's attention and it wasn't anything transformative. It was just very basic things. Um, and we looked at her P. T. program that she had done for every consecutive knee injury. And there was, you know, even back then, it was like, there was just no preparation. There was no. No, bringing up weak areas. It was just, we're going to do cardio and then we're going to do, you know, knee strengthening exercises. And there was no look at, no, no, no attention given all to the hips or the rest of the body. It was just, let's strengthen the hell out of the, out of the knee. And then let's just, uh, let's do tons and tons of elliptical machine. I was like,

Ryan Patrick: 7:07

we're

Jim Laird: 7:08

definitely not going to do that.

Ryan Patrick: 7:11

Yeah, that just, you know, they'll spam leg extensions or something and just call it, you know, ACL.

Jim Laird: 7:17

Yeah, so, so the combination of that combined at that same time getting, you know, just getting some women and being in a place like Lexington Athletic Club where I've got literally, you know, several thousand people a day watching me train people, it's a great place to start. And not to mention, like, it's really interesting. I was thinking about this when you reached out to me, you know, um, I always loved, I got to train with you a bunch, you and Blake, uh, Dedus, Beavis, and what Beavis has been able to do, Dedus, uh, I call him Beavis, because he's just a cranky, he's a cranky dude, but I love it, love him. I still, you know, Blake's one of the few people I stay in touch with you still, but Blake, I, I stay in touch with on a regular basis, He just finished some strong, the dude, I know his lifetime drug flea for sure, like 100 percent what he's been able to accomplish in strong man and the power lifting is disgusting. And the two of you, I think, I, you know, I trained at Westside, I trained at Elite FTS, I lifted with some of the big, biggest, baddest people. I'd say you and Blake are two of the most impressive people I've ever trained with because, you know, pound for pound, I don't think I've ever seen anybody Naturally as strong as you two and as athletic as you two, like both of you can do strong man. You can do powerlifting sports. Blake is incredibly athletic. Um, you know, you look at Blake, you know, particularly back then you would never think like, Oh, this dude's a powerlifter. He looked more like kind of a, I don't know. He looked more like a, like a field sport athlete. Right.

Ryan Patrick: 8:53

Yeah,

Jim Laird: 8:54

for sure. So, and you as well, like you look like kind of like a hopped up soccer player, right? And the amount of force, the amount of force that you guys could produce, it was absolutely incredible. And LAC in general, I don't know if there was something in the water in Lexington, but it was a hotbed. I mean, you think about this

Ryan Patrick: 9:13

a little bit,

Jim Laird: 9:14

you think about who came out of that LAC? Well, first of all, Wendler went to UK. And so that, that's how I ended up. At the, uh, in Lexington and in 2000, 2001, I moved to Lexington because I'd met Jim at the University of Arizona. And so Wendler was there and so that really brought some attention and he was working at elite FTS, but, you know, at Lexington athletic club. We had, you know, Alan Kress, who was, who never talked. He was my roommate. He lived with him for, I lived with him for almost two years. He talked to me twice, but in the weight room, we talked, uh, you know, Alan ends up creating this big health fitness company and then, uh, is working with guys like Shaquille O'Neal is flying all over the world, training Arab princes. So God bless Alan. I mean, I love Alan to death. Uh, good dude. Um, I've never seen anybody like the guy, the guy got his pro card, which is incredible for his genetics. Yep. But I've never seen a guy, like the guy would count when he was on diet mode. He would literally count like his oatmeal, uh, with a tweezer like tweezers. It was, it was like one, you know, it's just crazy, but incredibly. And then Molly Galbrath, of course, um, my former business partner, she, she's like, got girls Gone Strong. You know, one of my former employees, Lucy Hendricks, is doing incredibly well. She's got a great gym in Lexington, Kentucky. Sarah Martin, um, great physical therapist. You know, has her own place in Lucy's gym, I think. You know, I'm trying to leave somebody out, but Justin Ford is doing great

Ryan Patrick: 10:46

things. Pardon

Jim Laird: 10:47

me,

Ryan Patrick: 10:48

Sarah Burr Hager.

Jim Laird: 10:50

Yeah, Sarah,

Ryan Patrick: 10:50

you know,

Jim Laird: 10:51

yeah. Sarah McKenzie, Burr Hager, whatever she is. She's got, she's, she's her mom. She was the

Ryan Patrick: 10:57

first strength and conditioning coach at Cal Poly. Was it what? Cal Poly or

Jim Laird: 11:01

yeah. Yeah. She's the first, she was the first female head, head, head strength coach of the entire college program.

Ryan Patrick: 11:09

Absolutely. Guys.

Jim Laird: 11:10

Oh, dude, like you gotta be, you know, you're, you're this cute little blonde and you're gonna train a whole football team. You gotta be a special kind of person. And she is that person, right? She doesn't put up with the shit from anybody. I don't know if this is censored or not, but, uh, let's see who else came out of there. Well, you've got Kevin DeWeese, who was like, I don't know if you know Kevin, but Kevin was a strength coach at Moorhead. He came out of the Lexington area. He was friends with Wendler. He's now like the, in head of like the, the strength and conditioning for the, for the Lexington fire department. Great, great dude. But I'm trying, I'm going to, you know, Chris Freeman coming out of there. Um, you know, obviously you, um, you know, Nathan Stivers, um, just, just the list goes on and on and on. I'm hoping I'm not forgetting anybody, but there's a couple of bodybuilding guys that are fairly prominent that I can't remember their names, but I mean, I don't know what was in the water there, but absolutely insane people come out of there, um, Going back and thinking about that the other day, when you contacted me, I was thinking about that, just the quality of the people that were in that place. Um, and what people have, what the impact they've made on the industry and the world is, uh, is pretty, pretty damn cool.

Ryan Patrick: 12:30

Yeah, and for those that don't know, so we're talking about Lexington, Kentucky. This was the Lexington Athletic Club, or we just called it the LAC. This is circa like early 2000s, right? Because I was in college. I think I graduated college in 08. So somewhere in that like 04 to 08 range. And we were, I feel like we were really ahead of just where a lot of gyms and trainers and coaches are today because we had one, we had so much talent, um, Mark who ran the LAC was kind of a lifter himself. So, I mean, we were outfitted with all kinds of, you know, elite equipment. We had custom benches. I mean, you were there with the West side stuff then training at a pretty high level and. Man, it's just, it really is incredible when I think back at how many early mentors I had who are really, really successful in this industry, especially when most people tend to make a pretty early exit, you know, after three to five years, I mean, these guys are going strong.

Jim Laird: 13:31

Yeah. Well, the funny thing is, is I was a west side guy, but I was doing the Parisi warmup, you know? So it's people, people like

Ryan Patrick: 13:40

doing that. Yeah.

Jim Laird: 13:41

Yeah. You know, people like to put people in a box, but. You know, people forget that one of my biggest influences was Charlie Francis, you know? So the nice thing about me is because of my wrestling background, because of my athletic background, before I got into powerlifting, uh, calisthenics and things like that and floor based warmups and, and, and simple things like that. And a lot of the stuff I used in my wrestling really carried over. And then when, once I learned from, you know, one of the, you know, we would go up to, to IFAST all the time and learn from Bill and Mike and, you know, once I learned, you know, all the stuff I'd been doing, like, okay, why does someone's deadlift improve when you do like a walkup, right? Pushup position, walk yourself up to their feet. I didn't know why it worked at the time, but I do now know now that it gets people to sit back in their hips, pushes the guts back, opens up things in the backside. I didn't know that back then. All I knew is it improved people's deadlift. And then I knew some people were not as good at deadlifts than others. And then we had to modify things. Right. But I think the biggest influence on my career had to be bill teaching me the difference between an emergency strategy and then a non emergency strategy. Okay. Um, if somebody's doing a body weight squat and they're having to arch and go into this extended position. To get it, that's probably not a good long term strategy. You know, if they're trying, having to throw their head back and get into these weird positions to do very low level things, we need to back things off and we need to get them into it. That's why the Parisi warm up is so powerful because it gets people It gives people movement variability at a very low level, and it keeps them from going into these very high threshold strategies to get very simple things done. Um, so I, I think it, um, Bill really helped me understand, and I always like to watch what you were doing too. Because, you know, Bill is so smart, he makes me feel like I'm a toddler at times. Yes. But, but, but, I've, I've talked, I've talked to Bill enough and I've watched people like you who are much smarter than I am. How are we taking this very complicated language and very complicated method and how are we simplifying it so we can actually use the principles with normal everyday people? Because that's one thing I learned from Charlie Francis and Jim Wendler. Is your job as a coach is to make things very simple so they don't have to think about it because that's how you truly get results, particularly with athletes that have to flow. You need it to be instinctual. They're neat. It can't be like this humongous 12 step process that you have to think about every time that you do it. Right. So. That's one thing I always appreciated about you is your intelligence is incredible, but you're out watching you, uh, from afar with what you're doing with your athletes. It's always like, oh, wow, that that's really great how he's making this simple so that these people can actually do what they need to do. Right? Um, and I think the greatest coaches,

Ryan Patrick: 16:51

I would always marvel at your, um, just like unconscious competence, right? I would watch you train and it wouldn't be anything wild. It wouldn't be a spectacle. It wasn't about the sizzle. Um, one client that comes to mind was, was your girl, Faith. She trained very simply, but she was probably the first female that I ever saw doing glute ham raises with chains around her neck and knocking high rep sets out like it was absolutely nothing. And I, you know, I always go back because I kind of put you in this category of Dan John, you guys just know how to like make things so simple and applicable and you just adhere to principles. You don't have to slay volume. You don't have to go overboard. It's just methodical, progressive, and the results with the people who always stuck with you are just. Beyond anything I've seen anybody else accomplish.

Jim Laird: 17:54

Well, thank you. That's a, that's a huge compliment. One, to be compared to Dan John, who is a much better speller and writer than I am, obviously. Um, And two, you know, Faith was, was, and I still talk to her today and she still looks incredible. Great athlete. When I first started working with her, she was running marathons and she was very frustrated because she continued to get chunkier and chunkier and chunkier. Um, and we just simplified it. She was a hairdresser. You know, so having to get her to manage her stress and all that sort of stuff. But, you know, she had a training partner named Amy Smith, who is a former, you know, female athlete a year at West Point, and she was running marathons, too. And so getting them away from that, because they wanted to look more athletic, and then just keeping it super simple and consistent, you know, a nice ground based warm up, real simple movements. And then just making sure that we give them things that they could actually adapt to. And if you give things, people, things that they can actually adapt to, they can achieve, uh, I think one of the big problems is people try to change too many things at once, and they make things just unbelievably, like the other day, you know, I'm here in Nicaragua, so, um, there was a girl who was doing, um, some, they, everything's insane here, like, everything's to failure. Everything's ultra heavy and the girls train like seven days a week, every single day, as heavy as possible to failure. I mean, they're doing the, uh, the in and out machine. I won't call it what we used to call it. Cause we'll get banned on YouTube, but, um, they're doing that with, with like someone's pushing it together and they're like, eccentrically fighting it on the way down. I'm just like, how the hell do you even function? But this girl was complaining. I'm not, my Spanish has gotten better, but this girl was complaining. And you know me, like, I've really had to learn over the years to like, mind my own business and not try and interject myself. Like, I'm so bad at that, but I'm better now. It helps when you don't speak the language. But this girl was like, she's doing rear foot elevated split squats and she's holding on to 80 pound dumbbells, right? It's horrible form and she's like, I can't hold on to these dumbbells. So I go over and say, hey, well try this. So I get a platform that's about this big. And the rear foot is a little shorter and then I basically set her up and I put a 25 pound dumbbell And I have the 25 pound dumbbell just go over her big toe So she's not arching her back when she's doing it. And then I was like, okay Don't down uno dos tres up and she got to eight And she literally was like, her eyes lit up and she was, she grabbed her glute and she, I think that's the first time she'd ever felt like a split squat in her glute before, because she was arching so hard to do those 80 pound dumbbells. And she literally started shaking and she was grabbing her glute and hamstring. It was just hilarious. You know, here, she's doing this really heavy weights. And all I did was give her a 15 pound dumbbell and elevate her front foot and get her in a position where she wasn't using her low back because. I don't think she cares about what her low back looks like. All these Latin girls want to have humongous glutes, right? So I was gonna say,

Ryan Patrick: 21:11

you could probably make a career out of building big booties in Central South America.

Jim Laird: 21:16

I could, I mean, yeah, but it's, you know, it's when you're here, like you're, you know, it's like, Nobody really knows I train people or anything. They just kind of look at me. They're like, Oh, big, bald gringo with tattoos. Like, you know, like whatever. So I will, I will help, I will help some people here and there. Um, I've had a lot of fun down here with that kind of stuff. But mostly what I do now is I, uh, I've helped brought coaching into a medical practice. I work with a guy named Dr. Leland Stillman. And when we first started working together, um, he didn't real, like the one thing about coaching. Is that we understand that you, the coaching never stops, ever, right? You're constantly coaching people and you're reminding them to do the exact same things over and over and over again. And most doctors don't understand, guess what? You're going to be talking to this person six months, a year from now about, Have you gone outside? Have you done your ten minute walks? Have you got enough sunshine today? Did you eat your protein at every meal? Well, you know, uh, I got busy and I forgot to eat or whatever, you know, it's, you're going to be talking about the same things over and over again. So Dr. Stillman was like, well, I meet with somebody, then I'll talk to him for four months. And it's like they fell completely off the wagon. And I'm like, how do you expect anyone to get better if no one's there holding them accountable? So we've introduced group coaching to the medical side of the practice and just got some incredible results. And then we started a coaching side of the practice so that people that aren't in the states that Dr Stillman is licensed. Can still work with us and we can educate them. Obviously, we can't diagnose, we can't treat, but we can educate them on what they need to do. And then we also have a huge waiting list on the medical side. It's very hard to get in, particularly if you're out of, out of, out of state for Dr. Stillman. So people might have to wait three to six, you know, three months before they can see him. Well, we've got our five fundamental habits that we teach people. They can get that going right away. And they, by the time they get to see Dr. Stillman, if they've changed their lifestyle, they might not even need them anymore. You know, so, um, that's pretty much what I've been doing over the last two years is really bringing, uh, accountability, habit change, all these things into, uh, into a medical practice. It's been a lot of fun.

Ryan Patrick: 23:42

Jim, one of the things you told me early on, um, when I was going through college was you have to be exceptional at just coaching the basics because. You're going to be watching somebody do split squats and refining their technique thousand times. And you're probably going to see a thousand split squats this week. But you know, when Friday rolls around, it might be the client in front of you who's doing their first set of 10 split squats for the week. And you have to coach that with as much energy and passion as you did at the beginning of the week. Now it sounds like, and I know your trajectory of, of how intense your training was, uh, some of the medical challenges that were just the result of the stress you put on your body and kind of where you are now. But what it sounds like to me is you're, you've taken these just foundational, this, this concept and just applied it to a more holistic perspective for people.

Jim Laird: 24:44

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, a lot of the people that come to us, um, Big part of their problem is exercise. They're, they're using exercise like I did to manage stress or manage trauma. And so getting people and a lot of the people that I helped, you know, they were, they were running marathons, they were doing these things that were more of something just to fill time as opposed to like, well, your goal is to look like a female volleyball player. One, are you built like that to begin with? And two, are you actually doing activities if you have the right structure? To actually make you look like a female volleyball player, running marathons is not going to do that. So, you know, it's just one of those things where we want to make sure that, you know, Windler is the one that gave me that concept of, it was very early in my career and I was taking all these certifications. I was all over the place. He was like, dude, just be the best beginner coach possible. Most of these people are never going to go past intermediate. Even my athletes like Scott Downs, who played in the majors for. God, like 15 years, more than, longer than that. I trained him for like, I got him just after his Tommy John surgery. And, um, like he was so bad. Like the guy could throw a slider, like knock it out. He was probably one of the best. Eighth inning relief guys in the majors consistently over almost a 20 year period. Incredible athlete. The dude, I don't know if you ever watched him at LAC, but the dude could, could go to full court basketball court and drain a football through the basketball rim like 10 in a row. Left hander. Like, just sick. And I remember how much he improved from just the basic Parisi warmup and just like real basic things. Like he couldn't stand on one foot to save his life unless he was throwing a baseball. And just what that did to improve just his general physical preparedness. And then obviously he had his sports coaches and all that to basically, you know, fine tune his pitching. But what happened was is when we improved his variability and we, you know, at the time I was leaning on Eric for a lot of information. Um, you know, by improving his ability and not doing exercises that would take away movement options. Um, his body just did it on its own. It's like, okay, you know, we've restored some overhead motion by, you know, doing some landmine by stacking his rib cage. You know, we've opened some areas up in his body by doing some different crawling motions and things like that. Very, very simple things. And now, all of a sudden, he, you know, he couldn't stand on 1 foot with his knee up. To save his soul when he started. And, um, and then, you know, a couple months later, all of a sudden he can stand on one foot with no issue. And, um, it wasn't anything smashing or extravagant. It's just really basic. And I can't, I can't tell you how many athletes came to me or even high school kids, like I remember when I first started working with this big high school in, in, uh, in Lexington, we did the Parisi warmup every single day for like two months. And we didn't have a weight room and the number of kids that all of a sudden could dunk. After that was insane. Just by having them do some really basic floor warm up stuff, I think people think they need to jump to like Fertimax and they need to do all this stuff. You got kids that like, don't move well or are extremely stiff, not in a good way, and you get them on the floor and you get them moving around every single day, and all of a sudden they can, you know, we're doing pogo jumps every single day, we're practicing single hops, we're doing skaters, we're doing all these basic things, all of a sudden, boom, they can, they can dunk. So, Always start with the low hanging fruit and you need to have some low hanging fruit in your program as a warm up, regardless of the time of year or the season. You've got to keep that just general physical preparedness up. And obviously, when you're peaking, you're going to lose some of that, but you've got to keep that low threshold. Um, I guess you'd call it foundation that has to be key because, you know, as soon as you lose that low threshold and you're always having to go into the intensity realm to get your results, you're going to, you're going to get in trouble.

Ryan Patrick: 29:14

It drives me a little crazy seeing the, I get it. You get, you know, you want to put a high speed camera on a kid and get the spin rate on their pitch or something wild. But, you know, at the simplest level, it's like, if you have a young athlete, cause I work with a lot of middle high school athletes. Yeah, if they can't split squat and they can't control the position of their scap on their rib cage when they're doing a push up they're not gonna that that's kind of a full stop for what they're gonna be able to accomplish as a thrower because When you make a stride to pitch a ball, you're going to essentially land in some kind of modified split stance And if you can't control your scalp and with something as simple as your body weight, how are you going to get that, that arm and slot and, and actually be able to put the torque through it. It's just, it's super basic stuff, but. It actually sets, like, to your point, the foundation with some of the, just the requisite capacity to do some of these higher, higher level activities.

Jim Laird: 30:16

Yeah, the base of the pyramid has eroded significantly since I joined the industry, and I think as, you know, obviously there's going to be always there's room for specialists, but I think as time goes on, particularly as children don't play outside as they specialize. Yeah. The need for just regular phys ed type calisthenic type programs is going to go through the ceiling and the people that take the time to actually bring in like some of charlie francis's gpp type stuff like perisy warm up type stuff even simple things like bear crawls and rolls and and and you know fun things where we're playing games or we're you know we're bear crawling to the left or bear crawling to the right forwards and backwards um you know most of the soccer teams I've worked with. Their general physical preparedness was absolutely horrible, and I would take resting heart rates on these kids, and they were just obnoxiously high. And these kids would come in in a group maybe two or three times a week, and we would do a long floor based warm up. We would do, you know, something like a rope squat paired with a carry with a bear crawl. And then we would finish with like, we'd start week one with like eight minutes of like light prowler pushing. Right in a circuit, you know, and we start the clock and, you know, I would tell kids if you get too gassed where you can't talk, just take it, take a round off. Right? And it was in the parents would be just like, why aren't my children like throwing up when they're coming out of the building? And I was like, that's not what they need. They're already, they're being coached all the time. They're not getting enough low level activity. They're not, their heart rates are too high. They can't shut it off. And we would do the same program. And we would, you know, by the time they were done, they could do 30 minutes of light Prowler pushing and breathe through their nose the whole time. And guess what? When they get on the field, the parents are like, oh, my gosh. And plus, you know, I'm teaching them about eating protein. I'm teaching them about hydration. And of course, they're listening to me. They haven't listened to the parents. And a lot of times the parents are giving them really crappy advice like. Okay, that Gatorade bottle your mom bought you, like pour it into another bottle and then pour water into it because it's too much, there's too much sugar in it for you to actually utilize. Simple things like that. You know, teaching kids like really simple stuff like, okay, your urine is clear, you're drinking too much water. Okay. Your urine is dark yellow. You're not drinking enough water. So we need it somewhere in the middle. So teaching them really practical things like that. Oh, you've eaten McDonald's every day this week. You probably don't want to do the fruit plate and the, like the, you know, you don't want to do the fruit plate and the yogurt because you think it's going to make you play better or eat the big bowl of pasta, just eat the McDonald's. Don't change your diet on game day. Like that's not a good idea. Um, just simple stuff like that. Uh, but really. That what needs to happen is there needs to be, uh, unfortunately it's insane. If I, if you'd have told me when I was like, Even 20 years ago, that people would be taking their gym, their kids to a gym to play and paying people to get them to play, I'd have told you, you were a lunatic, like here in Nicaragua, kids are running up and down the coconut trees, like. Bare feet, bare hands, like this. Three, four year olds, like, climbing the coconut trees. They're, they're running in the fields, like, playing tag. Like, phones are a problem here, but nothing like in the United States. Kids are like the first, the first place I lived at, um, there was a bar just outside the resort and the kid was probably seven. It was the first day I was in Nicaragua. There was a freezer that was fairly high. This kid had climbed up on the freezer and he was jumping like three or probably three or four feet. From the freezer to the bar, back and forth, like jumping back and forth between the two. And I was just like, this is awesome. Like, this is what children are supposed to do. Like they're supposed to play. They're supposed to have fun. So the more, um, I think in the future, having play based stuff is going to be super critical, like basic tumbling, basic gymnastics. I think that stuff is going to be huge. I think the kids that the parents are smart enough to put them in multiple sports. You know, I used to tell my club volleyball girls. I'm like, okay, which one is better? Is your club team? Which has better coaching? Is the club team better coaching or the high school? Which is the higher quality of play? Okay. Club is higher quality. Let's play club. Let's take the high school season and get in the weight room. Let's build your explosive power. Let's work on, you know, doing some different things, learning how to land, um, building some athleticism. Um, so you're not constantly doing this all the time, you know, giving your body a break. And the girls that did it, oh my gosh, when they got back to club because they had a rest and they were backs didn't hurt. Their knees didn't hurt. The shoulder didn't hurt. They would absolutely dominate. But a lot of people aren't brave enough to do that. You know, like same with baseball, like which, which is better. Is your club baseball better? Where are you going to get better coaching? And then on the off season, you know, if you're a soccer player, a basketball player, instead of playing year round, play a different sport or better yet, get somebody like Lee Taft or get somebody who's really, really good position coach. To coach you on your weak areas. God, there's one kid that I worked with in Lexington. Could have been a great NBA player, incredible athlete. Couldn't dribble his left hand. Kept telling him, gotta learn how to dribble with your left hand. Gotta learn how to dribble with your left hand. He wouldn't do it. He would go on AAU and he'd just dunk and he'd dunk and he'd, you know, he'd He'd go to the right every single time. Nobody was, no one was smart enough to know that they need to take that side away. And then no one was fast enough to keep up with him. Well, once he got into college, he went to Georgetown at first. He sat on the bench because he couldn't go left and then he couldn't just dunk over people anymore. They took, he had, he didn't have fundamental skills. There was a kid that went to UK. That was the same way. He ran like a, some like a four to five or something. So in high school, they would just throw him a bomb and they'd do reverses with him. And he just, but he didn't learn how to block. He didn't know how to come off the line of scrimmage. He, he didn't know how to go. He never went over the middle. And so he goes to the SEC and guess what happens? He gets absolutely, he can't get off the line of scrimmage. He doesn't, he can't run off. He can't run a slant. He's never gone over the middle before. He washed out in like a couple months. Um, so developing the weak areas of your game. And then. Let's figure out if this sport is even the right sport for you. Are you, are you doing a sport that, that lines up with your structure? Is there a sport, are you a team sport person or are you more of an individual sport person? Are you trying to play a sport where, um, your body type is just not in line with it? There's a lot of, a lot of kids are in sports. So their body type is just like, you should be playing a different sport. You know, so there's just a ramp that kind of went all over the place, but

Ryan Patrick: 37:31

I just had a conversation with my friend this week. I said, I played all the wrong sports for me, but, you know, that that's that ship has sailed. I hear a couple of things. We talked about the fundamentals. You're mentioning a lot of these athletes are going to rise. They're going to rise to the level of their, their weaknesses. I mean, that's going to be the limiting factor. One thing I do want to touch on, and I have some, I kind of just back and forth with myself all the time over this situation, but it's the fact that the kids don't have an off season anymore. And high school sports, at least in our area have become less and less important. The scouts are at club, the better coaching is at club, but the challenge with that, is it. It costs money. It's prohibitive for a lot of kids. And that becomes really, really difficult because I mean, we're in an affluent area, but I'm sure there's a lot of other areas where these kids can't join these teams. And they're really some of the best athletes out there.

Jim Laird: 38:33

Sure. Well, the good, the good thing about today is if you're a good athlete, they're going to find you.

Ryan Patrick: 38:38

Like,

Jim Laird: 38:39

it's not like it's not like the old days where, um, there wasn't the Internet. There wasn't, you know, all these things. So you make the best of the situation that you're in. And if all you can afford to do is play high school, you play high school. Um, maybe you don't get as good a coaching, right? But if you're an athlete, they're going to find you. Like I can tell, uh, when somebody walks through my door, like a young, like a 13, 14 year old kid, I can tell by the way they walk or their presence, if they're going to be able to be a high level guy, like you can just tell, like, you know, you know, when you see an athlete, you see the way they walk, the way they bounce, the way they carry themselves, you know, right away, if somebody is going to be an athlete or not.

Ryan Patrick: 39:22

Right.

Jim Laird: 39:22

And so. You know, I, I would just focus on with, if you couldn't afford it, I would just focus on having fun with it and playing wherever you can play. And then chances are, if you're good, there's going to be some coach that, that has higher level skill, that's going to see you and be like, Hey, I'll help you on the side for free. You know, um, there, there's a couple of guys in Lexington that I know would help kids, uh, really good coaches that would help kids on the side just because they saw potential in them. So unfortunately it's become a giant racket, but, um, you just do the best you can with what you got. Right. So if you're good, they're going to find you like, and if you're not, you're, they're not gonna, well, they're not going to find you, but, but just because you're like, I had a, I had a kid that went to Florida, um, He, his goal, his dream was to play college football. And I was like, knock yourself out. He went to Florida. He, I told him, I said, this is going to be miserable. It's going to be horrible. Just tell yourself that it's going to be hell on earth, but you're going to love it. He ends up going, he doesn't make the team the first year, but he walks into to urban Meyers office and says, Hey, I'll do anything it takes to be on this team and he ends up working in like in the laundry room with the team. And then that spring, then the team absolutely loves him. It's kind of like, almost like Rudy. That spring, the team ends up, like, he ends up making the roster. And he's just a special teams guy. So he's there with, like, Tebow and all those guys, right? So he ends up winning, like, what, two national championships? And he travels all over the place, he ends up, you know. So, like, this dude, um, uh, ends up, I think he ran down on a kickoff. Like, you know, that's all he did. Or kick return, kick off, he was on a punt team or something. But who the kid, I mean the guy got a great job because, you know, he was five years, four years at the University of Florida with the references he has. Like I had another kid who went, who went to Catholic, who ended up going to Vanderbilt, didn't play much. He went to Vanderbilt for law school. Basketball is what got him into Vandy and he didn't play a lot, but he got to travel to Australia. He got to beat UK Um the year UK beat won the national championship He won they won the sec and then UK went on the national championship and I actually texted that to him I actually have the phone text. I say hey, dude, this is what's gonna happen like the night before I was like you guys are gonna beat UK tomorrow And then UK is going to win the national championship. I wish I had to put money on it, but, um, uh, you know, like there's all sorts of cool stories, like you don't have to like, make it like, you don't just to be on a division one roster, heck go be a scout team player. Now in college, it's insane. Like one of my kids that worked with me since he was like 10 great college basketball player ended up, uh, he was at Virginia and then he ended up going to, uh, to Belmont in a great three print shooter. He ended up going to Belmont. Yeah. Which is in Tennessee. I think it's Belmont. Uh, he ended up hitting a big three that sent him to the, sent him to the final, to the, to the 64. This kid ended up being a GA and, uh, at Louisville, I believe. And he was telling me, we were talking on the phone and he was like, dude, I get like 40, 000 a year plus like free room and board. And I was like, I'm like, I'm like, what are these like assistants? Like the team manager gets like, plus he's going to school for free. It's like the team manager, the team manager gets like free room and board. Like the guys that are doing the laundry and stuff and the, I'm like, dude, like to be a member of like a major sports team, like, Oh, there's a kid, a kid. I trained, um, in, uh, in high school who I can't remember his name off the top of my head. He worked his way up in UK. Uh, he played, he played a Catholic where I, where I was coaching there. He's now like the manager of the whole team. He's, I don't know how much money he's making. But he worked his way up from the very bottom. So like you can get in with some of these sports teams as a manager or as a scout team player or whatever, and do some really cool stuff, like have doors and opportunities open for you that you, you would never ever dream of. So, um, you don't necessarily have to take your traditional route to places. Right. So it's a very, very interesting time. We live in as far as sports is concerned, but if you're willing to do the work and you set your expectations at a reasonable level, um, you can do a really a lot of cool things even though you might not be like the starter guy, right?

Ryan Patrick: 44:15

I think a lot of people just undervalue the consistency required to ascend to that level, especially if you're not equipped with the natural gifts.

Jim Laird: 44:24

Yeah. And, and that's why, why he takes they time. Yeah. And that's why employees hire athletes. That's why, you know, I, I think every kid should play sports or do a martial art or something along those lines, even if they're not gonna be highly successful at it or compete at a high level. It teaches you how to win and lose. It teaches you how to show up every day and go to work regardless of how you feel. Um. It teaches you how to get along with difficult people and be in difficult situations. These are all skill sets that are desperately needed today. And, um, that's why sports is so important. And, and that's why, um, the sports should be a part of every young kids development. And unfortunately it's become this like exclusive club for the gifted when every kid should be doing some sort of. You know, phys ed slash activity. And we know for a fact that activity and movement is what develops the brain. So why are we taking, it's really crazy. They're like, Oh, we want to improve academic standards and stuff. We're just going to do more rote learning and we're going to sit the kids in a desk for longer. And it's like, we need to get them out and get them moving around. We get them to play like that's how you develop your brain. But unfortunately what they say and what actually they want to do is often, you know, speaking on a two different sides of their mouth, unfortunately.

Ryan Patrick: 45:44

Yeah, we definitely need to get to a place where we can democratize fitness again and physical literacy for young kids. My son is in 3rd grade and even last year in the 2nd grade. He's already understanding. He's like, there's no time to play and hang out with my friends. And that's what I want to do. So therefore I don't like school. It's pretty high intellect, which is going to be a problem in some regards, but in this aspect, I'm like, son, I can't disagree with you, man. Shocker. Shocker. Shocker.

Jim Laird: 46:14

Shocker. Yeah. And you know what? Oh, you know, the smart ass, you've always been kind of a smart ass cause you're so smart, which I love and I appreciate, but it's sure it's, it's sure. It's gotten you in trouble over the years. And so now you're having to reap what you sow.

Ryan Patrick: 46:29

So, yeah, I say that in my life all the time. I can't discipline me out of him. So I just have to, to endure. And I mean, we're thick as thieves. We go round and round, but like he's, he's my guy. So,

Jim Laird: 46:42

well, but here's the beautiful thing about that is that's natural and normal and needed because. If you have a boy in particular that isn't challenging the authority figure, that isn't challenging his father, then you're in trouble. Like you want that kid that wants to go out and get after it. That wants to like, it's your job to teach him how to like steer that energy. Um, you know, obviously I'm not going to teach you how to be a parent. Um, I don't have any children, but I, Lord knows I've developed, you know, over the years taking kids from 10 to, you know, into college. I've got kids that I, that I trained. That were grand grandkids and, you know, all sorts of crazy stuff from people because I was in it for so long. Um, but that that's normal. That's normal. Young boy behaviors to challenge authority. And so, uh, love it. That's great.

Ryan Patrick: 47:32

Yeah, my daughter was talking this week about not being allowed to talk during class.'cause she's gonna get in trouble. And he's like, he's like, I'll talk. She's like, well what if you get in trouble? He goes, it's not a big deal. They just, you know, asked me to stop and then I do it again. And I was, I'm in the front seat of the car, like, trying not to laugh.'cause I know I'm, I'm just endorsing it.

Jim Laird: 47:53

Would you would've said, you would've said the exact same thing?

Ryan Patrick: 47:55

Yeah, probably. What are they

Jim Laird: 47:56

gonna do? Throw me in jail.

Ryan Patrick: 47:59

I was in trouble. My parents were very strict, you know, came from this very, uh, rigid Catholic. Catholic family. And I was constantly in trouble because every teacher in every level said I was just a motor mouth, you know, A's across the board, but conduct was like D disruptive, so, you know, circle.

Jim Laird: 48:22

Well, most of the truly successful people are a little bit of a shit disturbance, you know, that's just kind of how, how, how it rolls. Um, it's just a matter of learning how to, um, you know, I was early in my career. I was completely obnoxious. You know, I rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and looking back, there's, there's a lot of things I wish I would have handled much differently. But I think that's part of, you know, when you're getting into a job in an industry, you're trying to make a name for yourself. You kind of, you know, you want to ruffle feathers. You You tend to be very ultra dogmatic and religious when you first start, you pick a camp and you're in that camp, you know, as I've gotten older, um, definitely don't get into those dog fights and those, uh, you know, if you want to use a machine, machines are great, they're a great tool, if you want to, if you want to use nothing but a BOSU ball, knock yourself out, you're going to run out of options eventually, but. You know, I don't get in those like long dragging out conversations that I used to be passionate fights over training philosophy and, you know, all that sort of stuff anymore. It's just not really worth it. So, you

Ryan Patrick: 49:31

know, you've always been pragmatic in your approach, but the evolution you've gone through, you know, glossed over it earlier, you were, you know, very intense training. I think. I still tell people a story of, I think you're the only guy that I remember, uh, you were prepping for either a box squad or some kind of crazy deadlift. And you had headphones in and I could hear him from like two machines away. Yes, and I made a. To the point where I thought your eardrums were bleeding and then to, to where you are now, obviously you still train hard, still carrying a lot of muscle mass, but it's just, the approach is just more well rounded, balanced out. I mean, and, and I'm sure,

Jim Laird: 50:15

go ahead. Sorry, you're

Ryan Patrick: 50:16

not finished.

Jim Laird: 50:20

The funny thing is, is even when I was doing those insane things. I didn't treat my clients like that ever.

Ryan Patrick: 50:26

No,

Jim Laird: 50:27

I didn't beat the crap out of people. That was more of my way of medicating internal pain, right? Some people choose alcohol, pills, whatever. Um, you know, I had some unbelievably crazy trauma from my past that that's how I managed my trauma. Was through the weight room. Yeah. And I mean, you know, like that's what got me into football. That's what got me into wrestling. You know, one of, you know, the pastor of my church, why is this kid always acting out in school? Like, why is he disruptive? Why is he have anger issues? Let's not get to the root of why this is happening. Let's just put them in hockey. And, you know, guess what? I truck somebody into the boards and they're like, Oh my gosh, this dude's, you know, football, I'm pancaking people. I'm hurting people. I'm hurting people in wrestling and everybody's clapping and cheering. And, you know, wrestling football ended. Powerlifting was the next natural progression from there. Um, And looking back, it hurt my performance more than anything. Uh, a much more intellectual approach with less, uh, hype, more technical would have been much better. A couple of things I would have done differently is I would have competed raw, even though back then that the quip. Was the way to go. Um, I would have competed raw and I would have competed without the heavy music without the ammonia caps without the, you know, that was just kind of the West side kind of intensity thing. I wouldn't have done all that crazy. A lot of that was just because I was insecure at the time. I didn't feel good about myself. So, putting on this big show that I'm this big tough guy, right? And, um, so there's a lot of things I would have done differently myself, but it taught me. You know, what happened when I couldn't do that anymore? I needed to learn how to look inside myself. Why are you having to abuse yourself? Why do you have to punish yourself like this? You know, and then I finally needed to forgive myself, forgive some other people. That's when I got colitis, like, around probably 2009, 2010, somewhere in there. Um, that was a big change for me where I, all of a sudden, I had to learn how to be silent, had to learn how to relax. I didn't know how to do that. I was working long hours, training like a maniac. And that was really a big change for me. I didn't have to lift for it because I was angry anymore. It took me like a year to learn how to train without the hate and the anger and to train because I actually love, love what, love my body. And I want to, I want to, uh, I want to, you know, basically move and feel good. Right. Um, so that was a big transition for me. Like, uh, it was, it was a huge weight lifted off me. Cause that was the burden of. Having to, you know, use training to manage hate is just exhausting, you know?

Ryan Patrick: 53:25

And

Jim Laird: 53:28

then I remember the first time I, the first time I actually relaxed and sat calmly for like a minute, it was the most, or I remember when I first started using a float tank and I actually truly relaxed probably for the first time in like a decade, it was the most. It was just like hitting a huge squat because that same feeling just different.

Ryan Patrick: 53:48

It's awesome, man. It's a big evolution. Um, but yeah, we've already been going on a scenario. I can't even believe that. So anyway, I kind of wrap up by saying, I just, I appreciate you, man. Um, he, one of my earliest mentors is still obviously reference a lot of the stuff you've taught me. I'm glad we stayed in touch. Um, but we're gonna have to hang on here after we close this off because I have a few more questions for you. But, um, But man, it was good. And uh, I'll make sure I

Jim Laird: 54:18

thank you for having me on. Um, you know, people want to get in touch with me. I'm on Instagram, Jim Laird, G Y M L A I R D. Don't ever name a gym after yourself. Not a wise decision. Ask Cressy about that. Um, and then, uh, you know, still my work with Dr Leland Stillman. You can go to www dot Stillman wellness dot com. And it's great catching up with you. Um, you're one of my favorite people. Um, so many great memories, uh, from those days at LAC, and, uh, you know, I appreciate you, uh, you've been a good friend for a very, very long time, and, uh, it's, uh, you know, you and Blake are, are two people I know that if I'm having a rough time, I need to talk to somebody, I can reach out to, you know, I don't get to interact with you guys as much as I'd like to, but, uh, I know I can, I can call at any time and just shoot the shit, or, you know, talk about stuff, which is, everybody needs a few friends like that. So,

Ryan Patrick: 55:11

Yeah, for sure, man. All right. Well, this is awesome. I can't I'll probably get it up next week and uh, great. We'll touch base Sounds good. Thank you