Athletic Performance Podcast
The Athletic Performance Podcast: we discuss all things performance-related, with a focus on pushing the boundaries of speed, power, and strength.
Athletic Performance Podcast
024 - Kris Freeman on Cold Exposure, ATG, High Performance Coach and Holistic Strength & Recovery
Kris Freeman is a staff coach at Barbell Logic Online Coaching or BLOC and personal trainer in Versailles, Kentucky. But I know Kris from my early days as a up and coming strength coach. I watched this evolution from Crossfit, into Kettlebells, and now into his more holistic approach to health and fitness which serves many of the clients he works with.
If you are curious about hte practical implementation of recovery modalities -- Im talking cold exposure, hot exposure, red spectrum light, and even grounding -- Kris gives a crash course in today’s podcast. This will give you an idea of how to practically implement any or all of these therapies into your life.
We also talk his training philosophy and some of the influences he’s has over recent years including his implementation of the the often controversial ATG method. Kris is a down to earth guy and one of the more competent strength coaches I’ve worked alongside and it was a great conversation to catch up nad learn more about what he’s doing these days.
I know you’re going to enjoy this conversation and dig into how other strength coaches are constantly living, learning, and leading a high performance lifestyle.
You can find out more about Kris on his Barbell Logic Coaching Profile here
Please subscribe and review our podcast with 5 ⭐️ only and follow me on IG @coachryanpatrick
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
Today's guest is Chris Freeman. Chris is a staff coach at Barbell Logic Online Training, or Block, and a personal trainer in Versailles, Kentucky. But I know Chris from my early days as an up and coming strength coach. I watched his evolution from CrossFit into kettlebells, and now into his more holistic approach to health and fitness, which serves many of the clients he works with. If you're curious about the practical implementation of recovery modalities, I'm talking cold exposure, hot exposure, red lights, red spectrum light, and even grounding. Chris gives a crash course in today's podcast. This will give you an idea of how to practically implement any or all of these therapies into your life. We also talk his, about his training philosophy and some of the influences he's had over recent years, including the implementation of the often controversial ATG method. Chris is a down to earth guy and one of the more competent strength coaches I've worked alongside, and it was a great conversation to catch up and learn more about what he's doing these days. I know you're going to enjoy this conversation and dig into how other strength coaches are constantly living, learning, and leading a high performance lifestyle.
Kris Freeman:Yeah. I've got the camera normally sits in to keep it, you know, insulated from like overheating, but then the audio I don't think would be very clear for me, so.
Ryan Patrick:Oh, yeah. That, that was my first thought. I'm like, I bet he was on his phone and it overheated in the sauna. Yeah.
Kris Freeman:Exactly. Yeah. I baked it, dude. So I apologize.
Ryan Patrick:It's all good, man.
Kris Freeman:Anyway. So you're training athletes now. I'm training old, the older, uh, population. Yeah. The master's athletes and, um, doing the homeschool thing with the kids, uh, stacking clients up Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Um, we keep our weekends for family time and you know, we're going to be traveling a little bit this fall during our fall break, you know, period and stuff. Which is really on us because we run the schedule and stuff and our fall break can be whenever we like it. So we're going to, we're going to be taking a trip a little earlier this year.
Ryan Patrick:So that's cool. Where are you guys going to go?
Kris Freeman:Uh, we're going to go to inlet beach down in Florida, like that 30 area.
Ryan Patrick:Oh, yeah. It's so nice down there.
Kris Freeman:Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a little less crowded too because we'll be able to go a couple weeks before fall break. Proper happens down there. Um, and then, uh, as of June, um, I'm a staff coach at Barbell Logic Online Coaching. So, as we call it BLOC, B L O C, uh, Matt Reynolds is the, is the CEO for that company. And I've known about him for a while. I met him down in Texas, uh, back in 2016 at, uh, Ripto's Gym, Wichita Falls Athletic Club. Yeah. And, uh, he's a good guy to work for. They have a great crew. Um, I can't remember how many coaches are on their staff now, but they just landed another military contract. So, they're making some big moves in the online training space, man. Matt Reynolds. It's a neat system that they've got going. So,
Ryan Patrick:yes. So what's your primary role going to be there? Like, how do they conduct their, their online coaching?
Kris Freeman:So basically what they've done is they have a, they have a, an app and a system called turnkey coach. that makes your job, uh, very, it consolidates everything. So like, if you just look at the amount of clicks that you do to reach out to a client, um, or the amount of buttons you have to push, you know, for programming to slide things around, they've made it really, um, they make it, uh, very time efficient from a programming standpoint. They make it very user friendly, uh, for the coach, but also for the client being coached. The experience is just much better than any platform I've used, you know, true coach and trainer eyes. And I've tried a couple other things. It's not the, this is not the first time I've done online coaching. I've been doing it off and on since 2015 with the feedback and the way you can look at somebody's videos and coach them rep to rep, you know, virtually without being on a damn zoom call. You know, this is after the fact, videos they've uploaded, it's just not feasible, man. We can't do that. This isn't, you know, This is in 2020 where we're, you know, we're, we're out of our conventional roles. We're busy. So, um, as far as being able to train more clients in different locations that I would normally be able to, um, or have people see me infrequently in person, but then they couple that with, they've got to be getting in the gym, you know, two or three times a week on the regular. They can't just see me once a week or once a month. And call it good. It's just, you know, it's got to be more than that. So it's a, it's a good way to leverage your time, be able to reach more people with your time.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, that's awesome. I've been pretty underwhelmed by most of the coat online coaching platforms. I think they're all great in their own way, but the, the, the time required to just get a singular system up to speed is just. Agonizing and in terms of how long it actually takes to, to get to a program. And then if, if I want to modify things post hoc, it's always just been super difficult. So I'm glad, glad you found something that works for you, but I'll tell you what would be a good kind of jumping in point because I've called on you many times for kettlebell training. I mean, you were my kettlebell guy for a long time before Ben was working with us. And then, you know, I'm just curious, like these days, what are, what are like some of the big rocks in your training? I mean, it doesn't have to be with just the order population you work with, but just across the board, like, how's your training evolved in the last, say, you know, 3 to 5 years?
Kris Freeman:Yeah, quite a bit, really. Um, you know, like you talked about with your SI joint issue, like those things shape and mold us, they give us maybe some biases, you know, in our training philosophy or they leave that we'd otherwise not go. And when I, you know, with barbells for a number of years, um, at one point in time, I got into CrossFit, you know, kettlebells have been a consistent staple in my training because I just enjoy using them as a training tool. Cool. And, uh, they're just very pro for other people. They're not as intimidating as a barbell. So barbells are still a staple. Uh, the kettlebells, I really liked to get people to move better. Um, for some reason, people, when they have a barbell on their hands, especially if that's not why they come to see you, there's I'm professional barbell coach, by the way, through block. And, uh, some time to see me like through them to learn the big four, the big five lifts, you know, squat bench, press, you know, deadlift, power, clean, et cetera. But, uh, my gent pod clients maybe don't really care about that as much. So we're not getting them to move better. Like right now with what they have, kettlebells, always a great tool. Um, a few years back, I got really into this stuff from athletic truth group, uh, Ben Patrick project, um, Keaton Smith's project. Um, they're very, uh, Charles Pollock, one influenced heavily. Um, there's a lot of lateral training. You know, there's a lot of like, you know, training the spine under non compressive load training. But what drew me in the most was the whole idea of expressing strength through length. And I was like, the great idea. I'd never done anything like that. So it changed my thinking about stretching and mobility from something that was a pain in my ass. That I was just shitting at to something that this is strength expressed in a different way. It's truly like strengthening a end range position and is no longer stretching your mobility. It's just another form of strength training. And when I started thinking about it like that, I was like, damn, I was more bought in. And as you know, when you're bought in, you get better results. So I started those ATG split squats. I started hitting the full stretch RDLs, you know, getting my knuckles past my toes. You know, with 2 25. Um, so although the weights are not impressive, but the movement is what's really killer and how you feel during your workouts. It's it makes you want to continue to work harder because it feels so damn good like on your shoulders, on your hips and on your low back. And then you're less inhibited when you do your sports practice. You know what happened where you do your dad life stuff or you know, whatever you got going on. And um, I've actually had, I've had a lot of people tell me Uh, since I started doing jujitsu last year, it's been like exactly a year. So I'm brand new to the sport. My skill level is way down here. Um, everything is still just, you know, it's not overwhelming exactly, but it's still like a lot to take in as you remember, you know, cause you've been doing it as well, but so many people tell me like, dude, you're, if you, when you get an iota, your strength level is. crazy, but it's not that my strength level is crazy, Ryan, because it's been a lot, a lot better. Like numbers, it's the positions that I can manage and you know, when my shoulder can crank and it doesn't feel like it's going to snap, it gives me a lot more movement options. Um, and I can be stronger in what would seemingly be vulnerable positions, you know, where my fucking legs are flipped over my head. And normally that wouldn't go like options there. So it seems like I'm more powerful than I am. It also helps to be about 215, 220 because the sport is, you know, lighter guys can excel at it, but it is nice to be able to smash people
Ryan Patrick:still don't meet head at heart, man. Yeah. Okay, man. I, I do like how, um, a lot of different practices have informed your philosophy. I think that's really important for any coach. And I'm super happy to hear that the way you're talking about ATG, because they obviously receive a lot of criticism and a lot of praise. They're 1 of those organizations that I think has done a good job of creating polarity of people who are all in or all out. And you've talked more about some of the nuance of strength through length and actually incorporating this into your practice and not just. Hey, we're going to spam backwards sled walks and tip raises, like we're going to find some of the, the utility in this in terms of what the relationship of that is with some of the things you've done in the past. So I think that's super useful, but. I will touch on jujitsu because I'm a practitioner
Kris Freeman:and
Ryan Patrick:I think that's a good avenue, but one of the most interesting things that I found doing this was getting a lot of the movement and the rolling, uh, not rolling in jujitsu of me and another guy, but literally just rolling on the ground and moving their body in new ways. Really did wonders for just opening up my, just what I felt like was my physical capacity, the space I could occupy and talk about being able to turn your shoulder, you know, week one, I was getting Kimura, like if it went into like even five degrees of internal rotation, you know what I mean? So it's, that's been, um, hugely influential in terms of how I've thought about just balancing strength. Yeah. And squeezing the muscles in my program, especially for my athletes and getting the other side of just allowing them to, to access this over a greater capacity, if that's making sense.
Kris Freeman:Yeah, it's great, man. It's a, it's a neat sport, especially, you know, I'm learning that's more of a little bit of a slower game, you know, compared to no gi and uh, no gi competition in July and it was fun. Uh, now we're back to doing more work in the gi and stuff. Our school kind of switches that seasonally, although we're, we're more heavily biased to work in the gi and it was somewhat frustrating. I felt like I could actually do better in Nogi. It was more like wrestling. So, you know, you can kind of slide out of positions. And then, uh, one of the more advanced purple belts, he sent me a video. And it was really, it was inspiring because it was, uh, you know, basically pointing me in the direction. Like, Your technique will have to be better in a Gi because it has to be executed slower and slide through positions. You have to be able to own every position. So there's reasons why it'll actually make you a better practitioner to do some work, you know, in the Gi besides, you know, the, the variability in what you can do with lapels and your grips are, you know, way different, more aggressive. So it's been a neat sport, man. It was just, it was weird being smashed by people and having that pressure. Sure. You know being put in uncomfortable positions and having to get like, you know Comfortable with being uncomfortable on a whole different like set of rules a whole set of tools Be a brand new guy with all these guys around me that can kick my ass or girls that can kick my ass That are you know much smaller than me so It was nice to be I always enjoy being in the learning seat man, like as you probably do as well because that's how we grow But it was so refreshing being in a sport I'd never done before. Um, you know, something I'm, I'm kind of built for, I've got long legs, I've got a, you know, a short or average sized torso, I've got a big ass back. Um, so I'm not like the best power lifter that, that bill did not suit me. I'm not like the fastest runner, but I can move pretty well on the ground, you know, because there's a lot of my, uh, a lot of things that helped me back physically, or now I've worked through them. After about, you know, 16, 17 years of hard work and it's not, uh, there's certain things it's not limiting and the groundwork, like you said, when's the last time that I spent, you know, 90 minutes on the ground three times a week, like never. So now getting down with my kids is easier. I'm more comfortable, like my hips are more mobile and open. I can sit on my heels. Like I can remember. You know, when you're like in that, you know, they're like posture up, you know, when you're in close guard, I was like, dude, I can't touch my feet. It's like six is, you know, cause I'm so tight and stiff and now just after being on the mats for a few minutes, like I can sit down and I can plant or flex my ankles all the way now when my hips move way better, it's a very demanding sport on the hips and you know, I, my hips are still tighter than shit and it definitely holds me back. So I continue to work on that. Yeah.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, I remember when I started like it was almost good to have somebody your size like 215 like if I were on the on my Side somehow and and they were just putting pressure on my hip. I'm like, oh this feels good But then they would start smashing my face and I'm like, oh, this is not good again But yeah, it's just like I just yeah Really, you know But you guys put the sandbags and stuff on the side of the hips to kind of open it up like that's almost what it felt Like at first I'm like, oh this feels great I'm like you just stay here another 30 seconds and I might be able to swing my leg out of this position You But man, 90 minutes, three times a week. Like that's a pretty, pretty intense schedule. Like your, your skills probably coming up super fast. You said you've been doing it about a year.
Kris Freeman:Yeah. And it's, it's kind of between times a week, you know, ideally it's like, you know, three times a week this week it'll be twice, but when I can get to open mass on Saturday, man, 90 minutes. Two hours and that's a lot of rolls So, you know going into the competition. I didn't feel like conditioning was a factor like at all. I felt very well prepared It was just yeah, right white belts and then you know me with one stripe and I got my ass kicked You know pretty good. I knew that and that the skill level was going to be quite different And that one of my favorite matches, the 16 year old cat from corner combat sports in Louisville. I didn't know he was 16, but he gets in there. Now we do the bum. I was like, damn, this kid doesn't have much facial hair. Like he looks pretty young. I was thinking maybe he was like, you know, in his 20s and he's 16. He's been doing it for 10 years. and ran for two years, right? So he's a, you know, he's a four stripe white belt, you know, going on blue belt like any day in that pretty sick reverse arm bar. But that was, it was a good scrappy match. It was a lot of fun for me just to be able to compete. I didn't get hurt. Um, you know, here's a guy I'm almost, you know, I'm 38, I'll be 39 soon. And I had to go down a weight class cause I weighed in really light. And, um, so wrestling in Rome with guys that were like 16, like 30 years old, the oldest guy was 30. So I had some age on them and, you know, injuries as well. So I still have my, it was a victory there.
Ryan Patrick:So much fun, man. I'm proud of you for just getting out there and competing at something, you know, being uncomfortable. You learn a lot in the gym going against higher belts, but there's something about the intensity of competition, the adrenaline dump, knowing that it matters, you know, if you want to move and progress around the ring, like, it just really exposes a lot of the, the flaws in your game, which are pretty immense at white belt and blue, but it. I don't know, man. It's just, I think it's incredible. The guys that get out there and do that because I mean, you do risk injury. Like, we run families and it requires a pretty intense schedule of training to focus and get to that level. It is a, you know, a day away on a weekend when it could be family time. So, like. You know, I'd be mindful of all that stuff and balance it and challenge yourself like that. I still think it's great because so many guys our age, I think we're a couple months apart, man. I turned 39 at the end of this year.
Kris Freeman:Yeah.
Ryan Patrick:Um, it just for lack of better terms, just kind of mailed it in physically.
Kris Freeman:Yeah, man. I think it's important, especially when you're, you know, when raising kids stuff that you do for, and you know, stuff that has a greater purpose, you got to have hobbies and interests. You know, if you're just coming home and just clicking on the TV and that's the only thing you got going on outside of work, which I know a lot of dads like that. It's fucking sad. You know, it's sad for you. It's sad for your family. And, uh, I don't know. I just can't. I can't imagine living that life. I've got a patch from a buddy of mine who does. He does hats. He just patches. He does a bunch of stuff with laser machine that says See you was it's the grim reaper says I'll be seeing you right and I see that patch. It's it's right on my computer screen. So when I'm doing stuff, it's more seemingly unfun like, you know, uh, say it's taxes or whatever, or it's, um, you know, it's maybe it's check ins and it's on the weekend or it's programming. It's taking me like 2 hours every time. I see that patch like this. You get to do what you're doing right now is still a privilege. Even though, you know, you can set her at work and there's so many things that I get to do where it doesn't feel like work. Uh, our days are limited, man. And you know, it's coming for all of us and you better get after it while you're here.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, we're, uh, we've got some illness in the family right now. Some, some cancer and
Kris Freeman:it's always a,
Ryan Patrick:yeah, I appreciate that, man. It, it, it's certainly a challenge for us and it's on my wife's side. So, you know, a lot of my role is just, I think supporting her right now, but it it always. It always causes you to step back and just evaluate everything that's going on and thinking about really what's what's important and what's consuming attention and energy and even frustration that maybe it's just irrelevant and into the grand scheme of things.
Kris Freeman:Right on.
Ryan Patrick:So, yeah, and some, in some respects, you know, I'm thankful for that reminder. Obviously we don't want to be going through this, but also don't want to mindlessly arrive at the end of my life and be like, well, I really fucked up.
Kris Freeman:Regrets, man. And you know, that's something that I don't want to have, you know, it tried and failed is fine, but regrets about doing or not doing or something that I don't want any part of.
Ryan Patrick:No, I'll totally get that. Um, kind of on this note, I mean, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're I want to dive in. This is obviously this, we had to start rerecording this because we were in the sauna, the phone overheated, which is amazing, but you're clearly into optimizing your lifestyle. And a lot of that, from what I've seen is the saunas, the cold tubs. Talk, talk to me about just. You're what initially caught your attention with this and some of the strategies and things that you've implemented on a day to day basis, because I am super curious about all of it. I know a little bit, maybe listen to a Huberman podcast, but I want to know just from like a practical standpoint, like what got you here and how are you using it?
Kris Freeman:Yeah, so like the nerds call it biohacking. I hate that term. I call it, you know, lifestyle management. We're thrown into this mix that we're from an evolutionary standpoint to endure for a whole lifetime, uh, for living poor quality of food to our, you know, lack of being able to rest and have slow time for our brain have boredom periods where we're not doing a lot periods where we're eating more eating less like there's these natural rhythms to life. That, it makes us, you know, when you're trying to track your fucking macros, and you're worrying about every calorie, but you're not worrying about the micronutrients, where your food comes from, you know, what's been sprayed on it, you know, what it's been fed, like the health of the animal, that stuff is so much more important than numbers, but like, we're not designed to think about numbers like that, it is so overly complicated. So, I would summarize it as like, we're just trying to introduce things that our body should be exposed to to try to combat the modern day lifestyle, you know, causing us these poor health outcomes. So, for us, it's like, you know, we're turning, it could be, we'll just start with some of the hot and cold stuff. is basically like we're trying to trigger, you know, a hotter cold shock proteins so that our mitochondria and our cells are more optimized. You know, for work, it's basically, you know, springing everything back into, uh, firing as much as it can. And this stuff, this sound like a, uh, you know, chemistry level. I know how to apply these ideas, right? So it could be as simple as a cold shower, you know, in the morning to help wake you up. It could be, you know, getting morning sun, like, just take your coffee outside for five or ten minutes in the morning, you know, or get up, you know, five or ten minutes earlier, uh, take your family on a walk after dinner, see the sunset, um, things that are that simple, like, with our kids, they were both great sleepers, but coincidentally, we also did, um, morning sun and evening sun exposure every day when they were developing their sleep patterns. Every day, it was intentional and we didn't worry about, but even with our first, we didn't worry about the sunburn because we're talking about small time and it's not like, you know, heavy UV exposure, like a, uh, like a solar noon type situation, but we understood like that, you know, that light rhythms affect melatonin production, all that stuff. So yeah, the hot, the hot, the cold, uh, blue, the blocking of the blue lights, you know, it was a very in vogue, popular thing right now. And, um, you know, so I've been doing the blue blocking glasses probably for five or six years. About four years ago, we got a medical grid, red light from you, Martek kicks ass, um, just helps your cells literally produce more ATP for energy. So if you do it, I mean, anytime you do it, Uh, the further away, the longer exposure it takes, the closer it is to your skin, it can actually penetrate. I believe it's three or four like centimeters deep in your skin, or maybe it's three or four millimeters. Don't quote me on that, but it'll actually be good to use if you're close enough to the red light. So when we have stuff that needs to heal faster, we put it in front of that. We use this to light a room at night. Um, you know, my son's got some scrapes and stuff right now, so I'll put those right up next to it. You heal faster. For sure. Um, and if you put it next to your brain, I'll do breath work and stuff like some Wim Hof breath work in the morning or in the evening. And I'll put that thing like six inches away from my brain and in the morning it'll, you know, it'll wake me up and I've got better focus and energy without even having a cup of coffee. Just doing that first breath work helps as well. But, uh, yeah, we're just, we're into that stuff and we try to expose our clients to it. So because we run a business from the home, they can use our ice bath, they can use the sauna. We had, we, that's like a separate service, but if I had the perfect client, they would come, they would cold plunge, they would lift the weights. Um, if they have time, they could do a sauna afterwards, or they could just drop by and do that another time if they wanted to. But you know, I'll tell people to get hot two to three times a week. Some really good numbers on if you can do it three or four times a week, and with the deliberate cold exposure, if you can do that 11, 12 minutes total a week, that's really all that you need. You know, you could do more if you were just, you know, really into it, but that's not a lot. That's like, you know, three, four minute sessions. Okay.
Ryan Patrick:So let's, let's start with the red lights. I'm really curious about that. I've seen a lot of people doing it. They take some funny pictures, right? Like this is me waking up and their hair is like, they got the red light on their face. Um, so a couple of just real basic questions from a pragmatic standpoint, how far away are you usually keeping it from your skin? I know you mentioned a couple of inches. Does it vary based on your intention? How long are the applications and how much per week would you, would you use something like that? Yeah.
Kris Freeman:Yeah, you can use it often. Um, if you want a more concentrated dose, obviously if you're getting inches away, that's still a very safe space, but it's going to be faster acting like on a specific spot. Like, you know, I used to use it for my lower back and I'd be about six inches away if you're within a foot of the thing. And because ours is about this tall, You know, that's casting a big spectrum of infrared light waves. So if you're within a foot of the thing, it's pretty darn close and concentrated. You may only need 5 to 7 minutes when you're that close up for an area, you know, to be affected, you know, further, like two ft or more, you might need 20 or 30 minutes on an area. So that's kind of where I'll put it. If I'm doing breath work, put my, you know, put my head in a little bit closer. Um, but just having the thing on, if you're not getting a ton of UV exposure, it's better than not getting sun. So, you know, and it's great to, uh, to light your house in the evenings. Ours has a couple, uh, a lower, uh, a lower power setting so that you don't like inadvertently trigger, you know, when a little bit of excitement, you know, or anything like that in your, uh, system. So it's got like a lower bulb setting for the evening. It's a good light for your room. That's another thing that we're big on here is we're big on after seven, eight o'clock, the lights in the house go off. And, you know, I've yelled at my kids before for turning the lights on in the bathroom while they're brushing their teeth. Cause it's like, all you need is a few seconds, that blue light exposure to kind of disrupt your. your brain and your melatonin production. So, you know, candlelight dinners, we need to get back to doing that. But we were doing that for a while and it's like everybody was a lot more relaxed, you know, how sometimes, you know, having little kids at the dinner table is not always the most relaxing experience. You know, they don't want you cooked or maybe they're just wanting to move around don't want to sit down. So that for the better. So we need to get back to that.
Ryan Patrick:That's incredible. I love it because it's, um, it's counterculture for sure. Right? This is not the norm. Like, I don't know. Probably another person who's having candlelight dinners or, or thinking about this stuff. But I can affirm that when maybe we lose the electricity or something happens where we're things do start to slow down, you know, maybe the wifi connection goes out and all of a sudden the TVs are off. Uh, and then we just kind of dim the lights things. The mood tends to change, right? They even use this at restaurants. Like they dim the lights. And it gets quieter. Um, it's just everywhere you look, there's just an opportunity for excitement and just going. And one of the things we're not as strict about the lights, but I do try to get my kids off screens before a certain time because they just, it disrupts their sleep. They, they get hyper at night when it's bedtime, things just seem to really unravel and I'm like, this, this every night. So, I mean, I don't know if we're going to go as far as you, Chris, I'm going to be, I'm going to be transparent about that because I think with our schedule where we tend to roll in pretty late anyway, but I definitely want to make a conscious effort to move towards some of the stuff and, um, you know, the red light therapies just got me so intrigued. Like it's something I've kind of just at a distance looked at for a while, but I
Kris Freeman:don't
Ryan Patrick:know, maybe we'll have to move forward with it at some time.
Kris Freeman:Yeah, it's nice. It's, it's really nice having, you know, a portable device, smaller ones too, right? So they don't have to be like the, the largest expensive products. Um, I will, you know, the company and the quality do some digging. If you want to get one, Due to your homework, because some of them are high flicker, some of them are lower flicker, which would be, you know, lower flickers, less stimulating. Some of them have greater when they're running, you know, versus that's 1 reason that we DMR tech is 1 of the older. Companies that deals in photo bio modulation, which is the, you know, the science for like, with the different, uh, red light waves. And we got theirs as a recommendation from Layered. Um, he's had one for a few before we got ours, and it was, uh, it has one of the lowest levels of EMF activity. And it's a very low flicker, uh, red light bulbs. I can also tell you it's been knocked around our house, like a lot. It's been, it's fallen like fake bulb side down. Um, it's been borrowed by, you know, my mother in law. I've had a couple of clients borrow it. It's been around and it's still kicking. I think it's still in very good shape, uh, despite all the heavy use. So it's pretty tough. You have the Inferno from E. R. Martek, that's what it's called.
Ryan Patrick:Okay, I'm going to have to check that. I'll have you send me a link to the site. Okay, so you're using the light therapy. You're also doing cold exposure. You have, did you build a cold plunge tub? Did you buy one?
Kris Freeman:So we have, uh, we have an Odin ice bath. So it's like a cedar. exterior. It's got a steel liner. It's basically like a big freezer, uh, where the coils are, I know it's insulated with steel container, but the, the cooling coils are all around the water. So it doesn't use a chiller. That's stays cold like a freezer does. So it has to be charged with gas and that just like a freezer would be before it runs. And, um, you know, we keep it around 40, 45 degrees most days. I've taken it down lower than that. Okay. Uh, but that seems to be the sweet spot, like it's cold enough to activate that, uh, that shock response, maybe get a little shiver going for most people. Um, I don't recommend starting at those temps. So if you're, if you're looking to get into deliberate cold exposure, I recommend cold showers are a lot less threatening, especially at the end of a hot shower or after you've exercised or you've done something to your body temperature up just a little bit. And, um, you know, starting with short amounts of time, you know, 20, 30 seconds. And then maybe one, uh, two or three minutes, it really, when you feel your body start to acclimate as in the water feels less cold, that's a good spot to be able to get to, and it may take a minute or two minutes to get there. Um, but yeah, after like, jujitsu practices and stuff,
Ryan Patrick:a
Kris Freeman:lot of times I'll get home late from those. So sometimes I'll do it afterwards and it does feel very good. Like, you're less sore, you feel less beat up. Um, but I'll be honest, most times that I'll, I'm able to do it is before I go to Jiu Jitsu. Which is really nice because I don't know how early you get up man, but a lot of days I'm still around 5 30 or so um days earlier So when i'm going to class at 5 30 Like, you know, i've got to gear back up, but I don't want to take stimulants to be able to do so So around 45 before we leave for class i'll hit a three minute cold plunge um, and that'll you know, kind of You Excite my system a little bit. Yeah, I'm in a better mood. I've got greater energy. My body also feels a lot nicer getting out of the mats. You know, after work, I've got less aches and pains already. So I tend to move better that way. So a lot of guys use it after, but I wouldn't discount doing it before as well.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, this is interesting because, um, when I've done it at night, the process of my body heating back up always made me feel more relaxed. But if I had done it in the middle of the day, like after a run or a roll, um, I also feel like I'm able to kind of bounce back and sustain that, that energy a little bit. So it seems to, to help me also get up just enough, like without taking a mid afternoon caffeine hit of coffee or something, but also, uh, you know, The process and the sleep hygiene is right. It's also been very relaxing. And I, I'm glad you kind of touched on that. Cause I've always felt this like same, same stimulus, but just different response based on what I really needed or what kind of followed the event.
Kris Freeman:Exactly. It's, it's very funny. Works like that. It's like what you need, you get, whether it's first thing in the morning, evening, it's like a slightly different response because yeah, my fear was okay. Late at night I'll be wired and up for like. Two hours, three hours later. Not really the case. My favorite time to do sauna actually is in the evening after the kids are asleep. You know, that's kind of our downtime. It's one of the reasons I wanted to do that was because it's, you know, it gets so much blood flow to your brain, Ryan. It sparks some really great conversation. So I know there's actually a podcast where they do it like one on one in a sauna. They can kind of get that, uh, that same kind of environment where it inspires creativity, um, and just gets you. So we like that. And then either I go into a cold shower or I jump in the ice bath for like a minute or two afterwards. It feels phenomenal going from the heat to the cold, man.
Ryan Patrick:And did you get an infrared sauna? Is that what you guys have?
Kris Freeman:Yeah, we have a clear light. So it's a, it's a sanctuary Y. It's like a four person sauna. We did, we went a little bigger because we were by clients to use it. Um, we probably would have been okay with a two or three person. But the four person is nice because you can have like three bigger people in there comfortably if you wanted to. Um, you know, the bench is split. So instead of being here, they could be like facing off in the sauna, plenty of space if it's just like you and your wife or something like that, but clear light has been in the game and it's not the hottest sauna. So just to be clear, a lot of people are really into like the steep on us. Um, are real popular right now. And they're real big on temperature, 90, a hundred degrees to be able to activate the right and respond. And, um, the infrared sauna. We'll kick your ass a little bit lower temperature because instead of just area of the sauna, the box, so to speak, it's heating your body and your tissues like it's, you're getting exact with the infrared way, lightweight. So one 50 and that sauna is fucking cooking, man. Like it is really, it's hard to endure that for 20 minutes. Um, usually we'll cruise around one 30 to one 40 is usually enough for a 20, 30 minute session. And, uh, we're kind of getting back into using that on a regular summer, man. The days are longer, uh, you know, the night comes like that and it's like 9 30, like, we want to sauna tonight, you know, because then we got a shower afterwards. So, as the days get shorter, that'll be part of our. Or in the, dude, it's some elegant done, man.
Ryan Patrick:Awesome. So about 12, 10 to 15 minutes of cold exposure a week. So you're hitting what two, three minutes every day, more or less. Uh, you've got your, your red light, which is, is that a daily thing?
Kris Freeman:The red light is kind of just when I think to do it. Um, right now I got it in our bedroom, like right by my, uh, the recovery center, our basement. We kind of Uh, about last year, we renovated the basement. It needed to be gutted, which we did like a full gut job on it, but we, uh, we've got a whole side of the basement. This just. Full plunge area area to change and stuff and then the other ones, like, kind of a lounge area, it's got a couch down there and. Everything, all the products that we like to believe in and recommend to clients, electrolytes are down there, strong coffees down there. So we, um, but yeah, that's so that what were you? Uh, you were I got off track there. You were asking.
Ryan Patrick:Oh, I'm just trying to get a peek into, like, your weekly schedule with all this stuff, which was, you know, the red light when you think about it. Yeah, 10, 12 minutes, 15 minutes a week of cold plunge. And then the sauna you're, it sounds like in the summer of last, but on most weeks, probably three to four exposures.
Kris Freeman:Yeah. Three, usually at best these days. Like I've been more of a maniac about the saunas where I was doing. Uh, which is really good, man. The numbers on that don't lie about your, uh, your lower risk of mortality and cardiovascular disease. I mean, it, it drops drastic, like 40 percent or something like that for three or four times. I mean, there are crazy numbers on it, Brian. So, um, and then yeah, the, the cold stuff, I was doing that like every day. And, uh, it was like a first thing in the morning type of activity for me. My relationship with it started to become, it felt like it was a chore and I was like, like, this is for me to better my life. It was like an obligation or something to check off the list and started doing it on a more infrequent basis. I felt like from a controlling inflammation standpoint, it actually works better like that because it's more, it's more potent. Um, also the, you know, the dopamine hit when you're doing it every day, it just feels like it's a little bit less significant compared to when you're doing it three or four times a week. You really notice a difference when you get it out of that thing after 20. You're on that dopamine high for like five, six hours. So it's kind of cool.
Ryan Patrick:I love this man. It's like just so simple. I mean, not everybody's going to have access to all of this stuff, but for somebody starting out, what would be, if you had to just pick one, one or two things, like what would be your, the things that you feel like have made the biggest impact for you? And I know this is kind of an end of one, but.
Kris Freeman:Oh man. Where's your head
Ryan Patrick:at with that?
Kris Freeman:We haven't even talked about grounding yet, bro. Do you, uh, still wear the Wu?
Ryan Patrick:No.
Kris Freeman:Okay. Um, so what I noticed, so, talking about free stuff that everybody can implement, like everybody, most people have a shower, you know, cold showers would be a great exposure to cold. It's a lot less threatening and you're already in it anyway. I saw it was like engineering minus man. If somebody took a colander full of ice and they strapped it to the shower head. So the water coming through the ice cubes was even colder than usual. So in the summertime, when the tap water only gets so cold, You know, that might be a good way to get some cold ass water in the shower. In the wintertime, ours comes out of the tap, if you let it run, it's probably in the 40s. You know, through the pipes. So that'd be a damn cold shower. Um, as far as like the red light stuff, I mean, just something as simple as seeing morning sun and evening, you see the same spectrum of infrared light, you know, near, far, and mid infrared light waves when the sun is at that point in the day. So that's why it's so, you know, great for your circadian biology, because that's what we're meant to see is the, is the beginning and close out of the day should spark all our hormones to produce how they should, and everything falls in the, and then the grounding thing, and I've, and I've tracked it on my wearable, if you want to get really geeky with it, um, 30 to 60 minutes of ground contact, With no shoes on or you're lying on the ground on a towel, or you're touching a tree, like those are all ways you can ground your body. And you're literally, uh, changing the alkalinity in your blood with the polarity and magnetism of the Earth. So, it's just something simple that we shouldn't have to think to do deliberately, but you kind of have to go out of your way to do it these days. But I've tracked my HRV and I can see it is 20 percent or more higher when I'm ground that day, even for a half an hour. It's, and it's always like that. I tracked it for like two weeks straight. Yeah, I would not
Ryan Patrick:expect, I would not expect that.
Kris Freeman:It makes a bigger difference than the sauna for my recovery score. The ice bath, according to WHOOP, and again, it's based on individual responses, I get a negative recovery score for the ice bath. like 11 percent negative recovery for the sauna, five or 6 percent positive, uh, breath work, like one hot breath work. I'll usually get like two or 3 percent positive grounding will be like 10 percent positive or higher. So it makes the
Ryan Patrick:Are you training outside? Are you walking barefoot? Like, how are, how are you doing this?
Kris Freeman:Mostly, um, when I'm walking around with the kids in the backyard, when we're playing, I just make a, make an effort to keep my sandals off when we're out there, you know, pushing on the swing. Uh, if my, my wife does most of the watering for her garden stuff, cause she likes to have that outdoor time and care for her garden. You know, I kind of reconnect. She'll have her shoes off while she does that. If I ever help, I'll have my shoes off. Um, When we're doing like, uh, chores for the animals and stuff, I kind of have to keep on like muck boots or something. Cause there's a lot of bird shit out there from the chickens. And, uh, you know, stepping that contracted parasite or something, but anytime I'm outside, I just try to be mindful and kick my shoes off a little bit. And I'll be honest too. I've had a couple of clients that are just in a different headspace and they're more accepting about, you know, differences in the reality or other perspectives. And we've like literally put our hands on this giant sycamore tree that's in my front yard. It's like, uh, over 250 years old, man. It's just a giant gnarly tree that's got this big trunk and you can feel the energy coming right off the, right off the bark. So that's another way you can do some grounding and stuff. But, um, our gym is like an open air gym for most of the year. Um, late in the fall in the winter, we have to close our garage door, which sucks. Um, but most of the time we do indoor and outdoor training. So it's either in the driveway or in our part of our front yard there when we try to get outside. So they know when they come up the driveway, we're going to do, you know, various things, but we're probably gonna be doing carries and sleds at some point during the workout and stuff. We're gonna be outside. I've got to pull a bar in my driveway, so we'll use that for You know, chin ups or hanging leg raises, things like that. But I think, um, you know, people don't know that not everybody knows that that is an intentional way to get them outside. But I know that some people I clue them in on it, like, Hey, this is by design. And some people, you know, maybe don't care as much about it yet. But it doesn't mean that they won't in the future.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah. We have an extra rig at the gym and we did some upgrades on stuff. And like big part of it just wants to put it outside, just bolted to the concrete, just to get outside, you know, it's most trapped indoors and it's fine. We've got a beautiful gym. I love it, but just something about being outside and just doing athletic things.
Kris Freeman:And, uh, you know, learning to persevere in the heat, man. It's been in the high 90s here, though. I'm sure it's hot as s where you are, too. Um, I haven't had one cancellation, uh, because of the heat. I haven't had anybody feel dizzy, faint, anything like that. Everybody's been training in our garage gym like a boss. Um, we actually gave out, uh, the sparkling element yesterday. Everybody that can got a free one. So, we're an element partner here, so we, we try to preach the, uh, we're the salt dealers locally. For the area of, uh, we call it. So we try to, it makes a tremendous difference in the fatigue level you experienced during a workout and resist to the fatigue is just undeniable when you have, uh, you know, a full spectrum of electrolytes, dude. So we're big on that. And all we have is, uh, we have some barn fans in the gym that just blow across breeze. And it's so much more tolerable with training and heat that way.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, man, we've really come full circle, you know, it's uh, remember we were running around probably in our, you know, early 20s just Slinging weights getting after it. I mean you were so recovering and in some respects and now it's like how can we optimize? longevity health pain Recovery, it's uh, it's it's interesting to see our evolution here.
Kris Freeman:Yeah, man Game it's been in my radar for a while now and it's part of like 80 year old at 20. It's just been a different perspective that I've become accustomed to. So I can't believe how, with all the, with all the work it's taken, I'm really floored that I can feel this good at 38. But I was, you know, my period of 30 was rough, but I'm grateful for it.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah, I mean, I said to my wife all the time, I want to feel as long, not that I resent getting old because there's certainly an appreciation and just the wisdom and insight that come with it. Not that I'm quite there yet because I'm still, I still like to consider myself young, but I want to feel as young as I can for as long as I can.
Kris Freeman:Man,
Ryan Patrick:this was a super interesting conversation. I appreciate you sharing all your, you know, your personal anecdotes about how you're using the technologies and non technologies, honestly, um, to optimize health. So, you know, if somebody wants to, I know you're not much on the socials, but if they want to find out more about you or block, like where should, where should I direct them?
Kris Freeman:Um, I'll give you some links where they could pay for online, not on my Instagram, but, uh, my bar link. They could, uh, they could do a little bit of reading there or reach me through there. Um, yeah, also give you my work email. So you could, you know, if you want to attach that to your podcast, people can hit me up here.
Ryan Patrick:Yeah. Drop that in the show. No, it shouldn't be a problem at all.
Kris Freeman:Yeah. Yeah. We're also on Google. So if you look up, you know, string Kentucky, we're one of the highest rated on Google right now. Uh, just because people are kind enough to leave us a lot of five star reviews, a lot of positive feedback about what we do here.
Ryan Patrick:It's awesome, man. Well, Chris, I appreciate your time. Just hang on the line so we can finish uploading and then, uh, you know, I'll get this uploaded probably probably next week. So we appreciate your time, brother.
Kris Freeman:Cool. Thanks, Ryan.