Push Pull Health
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully 'Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life.'
Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life coaching.
The weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily Rot' email also includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom.
Howdy,
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition!
I'm asking you to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days!
Have you tried to improve Your health in the past...?
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits - only to start the same rotten cycle again?
You can count your own reps...
Push Pull Health
The Challenges of Going Vegan in 2024 Revealed
What does your rotten health attitude struggle with most?
2 Week Trial on the app Ben keeps banging on about
Push Pull Health Calorie Calculator
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective, an indie podcasting group dedicated to spreading positivity (yes, I am) within the podcast community. podpackcollective
Have you ever wondered how a simple dietary choice can impact everything from your health to your social life?
Tune in as we explore the profound journey of transitioning to a vegan lifestyle, sparked by a growing awareness of animal welfare and the eye-opening revelations from documentaries like "Cowspiracy."
We candidly share personal experiences, debunk common misconceptions, and lay bare the emotional and social hurdles faced along the way. Discover how the landscape for vegan options has dramatically evolved, making the transition more feasible than ever before.
In this episode, we don't just stop at veganism. We dive into the rising trend of the carnivore diet, comparing its principles and ethics with those of a vegan lifestyle. You'll hear about the dedication to maintaining vegan values amidst societal pressures and scrutiny.
We also unveil practical tips on maintaining essential nutrient levels, such as protein intake, and easily navigating through a sea of food labels and allergens.
Lastly, we tackle the chaotic world of dietary influencers and the misinformation that often plagues social media. From the antics of figures like Eddie Abbew and The Liver King to the absurdity of punching vegetables in supermarkets, we stress the importance of scepticism and making informed choices.
We highlight the positive mental health benefits of physical activities like running and advocating for a balanced approach to nutrition, exercise, and overall well-being.
Whether contemplating a vegan lifestyle or simply curious about its broader implications, this episode promises valuable insights and practical advice.
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben each week to forcefully 'Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life.'
Expect foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life coaching.
The Weekly Audio & Video Expansion on The world famous 'The Daily Rot' email includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes
Narcissistic wisdom.
Howdy,
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude toward exercise and nutrition.
I'm asking You to give the middle finger to Your Unrestrictive diet and Half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days...
Have you tried to improve Your health in the past...?
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits - only to start the same rotten cycle again?
You can count your own reps...
Your Complimentary Rotten Health Guide
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Now we're moving on to the vegan diet.
Speaker 2:Veganism Because they link a bit, like you get the whole like vegan runners movement and how the diet affects your running and I guess I'm just checking you're in.
Speaker 1:I'm just checking you're in, I'm not, I am listening, I'm just checking you're in shot. Yeah, we're in shot. We're in shot. We've got the heaters on. It was a little bit chilly in vegan diets, you bloody plant eaters too cold meat, it's got to be meat isn't it that's what lads eat carnivore vegan eggs. So yeah, so you personally, veganism, becoming a vegan. What was the, what was the reasons behind it? Anything in particular other than I'm? Sure anyway, yeah yeah vegan danny, please, I'm gonna shut up yeah, all right, so it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a long time ago now and so, but I just remember seeing more and more things about it and like hearing from people I knew like vegetarians, and I've sort of was just curious and I was like, well, how come you don't?
Speaker 2:And usually it was, I don't know like they, they couldn't eat a certain thing because it was like digestion or something like that. But, um, I remember one person saying is like, yeah, I just don't want to eat animals. Like I just don't like the idea of something dying, just so I can have dinner. And I never thought about it like that, I was not, never like. And I remember I get, I bought myself a meal deal and it was like a chicken sandwich thing and I was like, oh, something died just so I could have lunch. That just doesn't seem fair. Like one, you know it's just and I don't have. There's an option, I can have something else. You know, it just didn't seem right. So there was like a little twinkle there and this was like 2014 sort of time. I was working in sainsbury's. Uh, yeah, I remember getting the meal deal when you get like 10 off or whatever. Um, yeah, so it started with that and then. So me and my wife are both vegan now, uh, for the same, similar amount of time, and I remember having a conversation with her about it, because she's she's quite a yeah, like animal, like animal welfare conscious type sort of thing, and um, we were like, okay, let, instead of just like jumping into anything or making assumptions, let's like let's learn about it, let's you know. So we started watching some documentaries and then it became to a point where I know so much about the effect that this has or not, not only the animals, but like the environment and actually your health as well, so I I can't not at least try it or at least give it a go, or um.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, since then, I did like three months for vegetarian. I was like, I know, like one of the things how do you give up cheese? How do you give up but bacon? And that was like my free month of like a bit of cheddar every now and then like because it's, yeah, everyone loves a bit of cheese and toast or whatever. And then on, I think it was like a new year's thing, cause it's easy to start January the 1st in it. I'll just be vegan now see how I get on and if it's hard then I'll stop, but I'll just just carried on.
Speaker 2:Um, but that was like the start and then, yeah, I do remind myself and I do like I'm conscious of, like the effects sort of agriculture has on the. I think the environment was probably my biggest decision at the time. I watched a documentary called Cowspiracy and it focuses on the impact on, like, the dairy industry. I know it's like quite American focused or whatever, but it does translate over to the UK, especially like the land use and stuff like that. What you know, water use and some of the ethical stuff in the dairy industry is not amazing.
Speaker 2:But um I know, like a lot of people I don't know how far to go into this about the whole sort of moral stuff go for it.
Speaker 1:Well, it's always a tough conversation. I'd rather you do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I you know I've got the notes for anything you want to get into, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1:But I'd rather you do it from your point of view rather than me going like. Well, but also tell me more about this.
Speaker 2:Whatever you feel like you want to talk about, go for it, because my struggle at the beginning was like I'd go around a friend's house and be like, yeah, I've started not eating meat or whatever. And they were like, oh, we're getting Domino's in and at the time there wasn't an option Like you'd have to get wedges and some chips. That was your dinner, whereas now, thankfully, a lot of things are available now and that's probably what's going to be one of my answers for like why there's a big push in veganism. It's more doable, yeah, so, and then they'll be like oh, why like? And it's almost like they were like offended and they're like why would you do this? You like meat. And I was like, yeah, I can like meat. And then also like understand that there's like a moral. I got a moral thing against doing eating it like, so I'm choosing not to do it anymore, and it's just, a lot of people didn't really understand that. Um, and then it became like oh, I eat meat. Are you saying I'm a bad person?
Speaker 1:it was a lot of that and I'm like no no, it's not about you.
Speaker 2:I'm choosing not to eat meat. You can still eat me and I'm not going to judge you for it. I'm just going to do this over here. And I lost friends because of it. There was like some friendships that were really, yeah, challenged because of it, and over time I was like, if you're not going to accept me for this version of me, then I don't want to be your friend anymore.
Speaker 2:So yeah, okay, here we go, yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, that's interesting yeah, I don't know, like didn't, I didn't expect to go down there, but, um, yeah, and then I think that solidified as, like almost, I was like, yeah, I think this is who, like, I want to define myself by doing, you know, this part of me like this, but also I don't need to scream about it like I well, you know, when I go to a restaurant, I'll just order the vegan option. I don't, you know, go into the kitchen, go away. Is there any contamination going on in here or anything?
Speaker 1:like that. Yeah, it's not. Like it comes to the table and go look at this, everyone, look at me, I'm saving the planet. Look at this. It's just like you just get on with your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's that yeah, that's, that's at the beginning. You do need to, yeah, do a lot of explaining what was the like?
Speaker 1:obviously I won't touch about it too much, but the like, the friend stuff was it. Was it? They just couldn't get their head around it, or was it? Did they feel like almost that for any, for whatever reason? They felt like you were judging them, even though you were just going oh, this is how I want to eat now. Um, this is just me, I continue as normal. Did they? Was it that? Did they feel like because you were doing that? They were like oh, okay, like you touched one you. They were like oh, all right, so you know what? Because we eat meat, what we're like lesser beings you know what's going on or was what like?
Speaker 1:I'd find that just a bit.
Speaker 2:It was very strange, yeah, and I really wanted to veer away from it and like when I'd never want to argue about veganism, I'm happy to have a conversation and listen to what you have to say, and then I might not even have the answer. But you know, I don't want to argue about it, like I don't think it needs to be argued about because you, we're not, there's no, we're not forcing anyone to do anything, like when you know we're not. I'm not trying to insult you by doing it, or I know there's some people that can be quite loud vegans and can challenge people, and it's like I don't really want this confrontation right now. I'm just, you know, I mean, I'll ask italian, I just want to have my dinner. What are you doing?
Speaker 2:Um, um, but yeah, there was a little bit of it and it, and it wasn't the whole package. There was more to why I moved away from certain friends, but that was a big catalyst of how they responded to it and there was a lot of people just mocking, mocking, taking the mick out of it, but there's banter and then there's just like that's not that funny. Are you just trying to put me down, or you know that's not so fun stuff to be on a podcast, but yeah, it was just a little bit of that. Um, I think some yeah some family members it was really hard to you know explain to them why. Um. But yeah, like like I said, I was not trying to affect anyone as much as I could because I knew a lot of people had a weird stance against it.
Speaker 1:At the moment. In recent times we've got a lot of. The carnivore diet has risen as well, and I've said this before on previous episodes. I feel like maybe I don't know there's a little bit of because veganism has become more popular and more people are shouting about it good, bad, like similar to vegans. A lot of people have been or have been following a carnivore diet for years and years and years away from social media. Same with veganism. But I don't know. I think there is a little bit of people going oh well, people shouldn't be eating just plants. So like I'm gonna be a carnivore. And then it's just like, oh yeah, meat and eggs all the way, guys, okay. But at the same time, as I said, veganism is a lifestyle. It's not just, it doesn't just end at the diet, it's it's a whole entire life. So it's not like people are walking around as a carnivore. They've got their diet that they follow. But you know they're not doing a gaga, are they?
Speaker 2:they're not walking around with meat suits on going like well, this is, this is me yeah, I'm just, I'm all about definitely one bloke out there doing that, oh yeah I'm sure there is, but like it's, it's, it's very and so it's.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. I can imagine that that can be quite difficult as well. Being a vegan following veganism where it is, it isn't. It doesn't just end at the diet for a lot of other diets it's their diet can then shape them as a person and maybe how they conduct themselves and what they speak about and what you know. I don't know. I'm sure it goes a lot further, like maybe what sort of ideology they have politically and all this stuff. I'm a carnivore so I might follow this by, but it's very different to just going. I like meat and eggs and that's that's that being a vegan is is, yes, diet, but then everything else around it what a lot of people maybe struggle with possibly. I like the it's because it's. It's just not your diet, it's your whole lifestyle.
Speaker 1:And and it's a. It is a big shift. It's like you know, you can sort of pretty much get by, diet wise and doesn't really affect many people.
Speaker 2:But I think that's the difference between choosing a plant-based diet and being a being vegan. I suppose yeah, because, like, there's a definition of vegan. I can't remember what it is, but to paraphrase, it's like should try and live your life without the using an animal.
Speaker 2:I mean, or you know, I don't know, manipulating, but like, like, riding a horse is, like, arguably not a vegan thing to do, okay, something like something, something like that, whereas you can be, have a plant-based diet and own a horse, go to a zoo, you know, do all that stuff, whatever you want, wear leather, but yeah, vegan is a yeah, there's like a moral lifestyle code, I guess. Or your approach to life, where you're just like a bit more mindful about the impact you have when it comes to animals, or and even, yeah, so, yeah, um. So, for example, like a friend of mine's vegan as well he was he went to, uh, a stag do and they went to like the cheltenham races or something like that, and he was kind of like conflicted, of like I can't go to that. And I think that goes to what you're saying about.
Speaker 2:Like some people might be like, come on, mate, I get that you want to have your mop meat burgers, but like it's just horses going around the track or whatever. But yeah, it's, it does affect your life. But like, if you really care about it, then you almost like take the hit. You're like that's that, almost like take the hit. You're like that's that's. I'm just not gonna go and I'm I'm happy in that decision that I didn't contribute to that thing, that I'm not, I don't believe in yeah, you don't dip in and out of it, do you?
Speaker 1:you know it's diets. You can kind of dip in and out of it if you want to. I'm sure there's people who follow certain diets that on occasion might if you're a carnivore, you might have some carbs, might have some fruit bloody hell, god forbid and you can sort of dip in it and out of it and you're just like you know whatever, like no one's there going like, oh, hang on a minute.
Speaker 1:It's like I imagine if you go to something like like go and see horse racing, or you go and do that. What's going on here? What are you doing here? Hang on a minute. What's going on?
Speaker 2:But when I think people just their backs go up like, oh, you're vegan, right. And like I remember coming to the office and I was wearing like a woolly jumper but it was like a not real, not real wool, yeah, and people were like that, better be not real wool, blah, blah. For some reason, just because, yeah, you've given yourself this label, I go like you try not to, but people will ask you know, when you're out for meals with them, you're going, yeah, don't eat me, or whatever, and then you're just known as that person. If, yeah, if you're wearing certain things, or if you're wearing fake leather shoes and they think it's leather, there's like a big like I've got, I've got him, I've got him, he's not, he's not being vegan. There's almost like this weird, yeah, want to try and catch you out it's quite sad, isn't it really?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's like, it's like yeah, do you struggle with it now in terms of, like, the transitional period away from going for vegan. How long did it, how long did it take for you to actually fully come to terms with and actually make sure that you know your life was shaped around it and it actually wasn't? You know well even now. Like is there, do you have to work hard to maintain it, or is it now just you've been doing it for, so you're doing it Like if it's doing 10 years now, I guess it's now just pretty much day to day, like you don't really think twice about it.
Speaker 1:Everything's chunk of time where there was that transitional period that was like not just months, it was like years, to actually not just for people around you to go, oh okay, so this is, this is what you believe and this is what you do, like that we're okay with it. But for you personally, it was like, oh, actually, this is like you slipped up sometimes. Or you were like oh, actually you weren't too sure about certain things. Oh, hang on a minute, is this all right? Or like should I not be doing this or do I need to cut this out? Or like yeah, how?
Speaker 2:how was that? No, I know it's a good question because, um, I always say, when people say oh, you know, it's really hard being vegan, isn't that?
Speaker 2:I'm like, it's hard becoming vegan, but it's not hard being vegan because, like you say, when you when you've made that transition, which is, I'll be honest, it's not easy, like I don't want to make, like, make out as though, like, yeah, do it going to? Is that this really simple thing? There's a lot you have to change and a lot you have to be conscious of, and it's important to clue yourself up. So you've got to do a bit of research, especially in like, nutrients and stuff like that. Yeah, there was probably a good two years of like, even like.
Speaker 2:I remember my first month of being vegetarian, even, um, I just wasn't eating enough and I lost like five kilograms. I was like, I don't understand, I'm eating the same stuff. But then when, if you were to like put the food you eat through a calorie calculator, you realize that most meat versions of vegetarian substitutes like a mex Mexican bean burger next to a quarter pounder yeah, it's like 200 calories, sometimes a difference, and I wasn't factoring that in. So I was just eating the same stuff. But then, being in a calorie deficit just by not realizing, and as soon as I realized that, I went, oh, I'll just have just have two patties.
Speaker 2:Then and have a double burger and then I'm having this set, probably probably having more, if not the same amount of protein as a burger, but I'm actually just having being able to eat more. It's just like little lessons like that and um, like you say when you're like I've got examples here, I've just like I was gonna here we go, yeah. So here's, this is for you oh, so I know, I know one of the things that well do you get out with many a your guests. One of the things is like most people are like vegan food tastes bad.
Speaker 2:Here's an example of why you're wrong because there's like a protein flapjack biscoff bar, which is like heaven, so I want you to eat that at some point and let me know what you think. Please don't not like it. What are you talking about, um? But yeah, no, it's um.
Speaker 2:Looking at labels, you know, just knowing to look for like um, you know how that all the allergens are in bold yeah most people don't even have to think about this, but I'll look at a label and just make sure I go right, is there any milk? No, is there any egg? No, cool, I'm good, and it's. At first that was like really thai. So I'm like imagine going through tesco, going fucking hell. I gotta see if there's any milk powder in this one.
Speaker 2:And then, 10 years down the line, I know for a fact I can eat a pack of skips. I can't eat, uh, sensations, thai sweet chili, which is the worst thing ever, right, like it's stuff like that, like I just know. And then certain restaurants. I'm like, oh yeah, I know they have this option because I've been there and I've gone through the. Oh, I hope they got something good they do. When I go there next time, don't have to think about it. I know it's there and luckily, in the last what three or four years, there's so many like mcdonald's are there, mcplant, you know all that stuff oh yeah, what's that taste like?
Speaker 1:have you had a McPlant? It's good yeah it's really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're so, so accessible. Now to Hellman's vegan mayo. I literally substituted mayo with hummus in my first couple of years because I love mayo and I was like I need that, like almost, if I'm having a burger or something like that, I need a mayo-y sort of thing. The only thing I could find was like a bit of hummus, and then when Hellman's vegan mayo came out, I was like the heavens have opened there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have that. I bought a tub off Amazon once and it was one of the ones that restaurants, I imagine buy like this and it Played off. Yeah, I'm like do do you want any bread with your mayo? Um, yeah, and it was annoyingly, it did come in the post and it was smashed, a bit like it just went all over the box and I was just like maybe that's a sign to calm down, um, but yeah a bit of a tangent.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, these days it's actually not no excuse no, that goes across the board for like for protein as well, just getting protein in. I would say to a lot of clients about, yes, you might not be aware of what, of what foods contain x amount of protein and and it's what protein is. One of those is the is like the macronutrient in terms of you don't accidentally get too much protein. You have to normally work to get it in, but you know you go to any of these supermarkets now and if it fits into your diet, even vegans like you've got high protein yogurts, vegan like protein powder For a number of years it wasn't the best.
Speaker 1:That's now you know I've got vegan protein powder from bulk white chocolate coconut like fucking random flavours, but pretty good. Mixes pretty well. So yeah, we're at a point now in 2024.
Speaker 2:Isn't Huel just vegan, I imagine? So yeah, they do protein powders and meal stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the excuses are running out a little bit. Yeah, you're always going to have a preference of what sort of food that you enjoy, but to try and eat healthily yes it can be argued that healthier foods can be more expensive and stuff like to a point.
Speaker 2:But to try, and get a bit frustrated by that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, yeah but to get, try and get a bit more protein in I would not talk about having this super, duper, fucking organic diet. It's about can you get more protein even if you're not training? Try and get more protein in, because it will be good for your health overall, and then try and get a bit of exercise in if you can you can get some good protein in like for relatively cheap, even if it is beans and lentils, and you start off there.
Speaker 1:You just add that to whatever dishes you're cooking and that's your introduction to trying to get a bit more protein in. It's pretty doable now for the vast majority. But I'd like to say something quickly about because you're talking about initially you getting set, getting yourself into becoming a vegan and finding out what you can you can and can't eat. Like you said, it's initially it's hard work, but once you get into, once you get into the swing of things and you know what, what, what's what's doable and what's not, it then just becomes part of your life and then that's it. You don't, you don't stress about it too much, but that I imagine that probably does add to the to the argument a little bit with the whole. A lot of some you know again and it's it's not just vegans, it's a lot of people who follow a certain diet, who then shout about it online or shout about it to people. You can't fully escape that. That almost like moral superiority, because being a vegan by the sounds of it initially is is difficult. It's easier now because there's more products available to you. Once you've done it for a period of time, it just becomes part of your life. But I imagine a lot of people do struggle with that a little bit and they can't help themselves and that probably doesn't help. So when they're, when they're shouting about it online, they can't not remove the fact that. Do you know what? Maybe I am a little bit better than you, actually, because I've got to put a lot of work into this and this is tough, and I'm also trying to save the planet and I don't eat animals.
Speaker 1:I imagine some have got that at the top of their mind. Where people go oh god, why are you a vegan? Like bloody hell, right, can't you just eat a bit of meat? It's like someone going, oh, oh, you go. Oh, you're a personal trainer, so you should have big muscles why?
Speaker 2:a lot of muscles, you see, are quite aesthetic anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got a work proof, I can answer this I've got. I've got to get the protein in. I've got to be disciplined, I've got to do all this stuff is ah, oh, it's easy for you. Oh, because you're a pt, or god like, how do you eat so much food? Oh, it's easy for you, yeah because we got high metabolism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I fucking move around a lot and I.
Speaker 1:It's taken me years to get to this point. It takes a long time, it takes a form of discipline and also, I think maybe what trickles into veganism for some people is that, that moral superiority where it's like do you know what? Fuck you, I'm not eating animals, I'm saving the planet. I'm doing all this, like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:So you know there was a that's probably a meme that's still going. It's like you know there's a vegan cause they've told you there. Yeah, I was like you're only going to find out if you have to, yeah, and I yeah, so that they're sorry to jump in. But yeah, there was a lot of that Like. But it was like we're out for a meal and I'll be like you know, if you've got any plant-based or vegan options, oh, trust the vegan to tell everyone. I'm like I need to tell them otherwise.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I can eat what they've got, you know paraded around and told you know I imagine people struggle with that as well, a little bit where they go. Oh, you know it won't hurt. Will it just have a burger just this one time?
Speaker 2:I've had people go like do you have a break at Christmas?
Speaker 1:just have a turkey and I'm like do you know what?
Speaker 1:being vegan means it's like yeah do you just take Sundays after murder you just gorge on your yeah, but again, that goes into a lot of other diets. You probably can and no one's really going to butt an eyelid If you follow other diets, if you're a carnivore or paleo or whatever, or you've got loads of variations of vegetarian flexitarian. Is there more subsections for vegans where you follow a vegan diet 90% of the time but you might have eggs, you might have a little bit of dairy? I don't think there's any like is that more right?
Speaker 2:is that more like vegetarians and they subdivide off? I've heard of like Cheegan, which is like a vegan that cheats every now and then right, yeah, okay, sort of a block of cheddar every now and then yeah, but yeah, and I think for some people I know as they'll do it as much as they can.
Speaker 2:So there are, there are times where it's so difficult that I understand why some people might take a break from it, like if you went traveling in a place where it's actually quite difficult to eat plant-based, like weirdly, france is quite hard right okay, it's just meat and cheese over there, yeah, and I've had moments where I'm like chips for dinner again, like, depending on where you're staying, there's no, like they don't know what being vegan is.
Speaker 2:Why aren't you having cheese? What's wrong with you? I remember like something you said earlier, like what was it like to transition? And my first year I would call myself vegan. But I went on holiday, visited my dad who lived in rural Italy, and there was just nowhere I could have like a nutritious meal unless there was a bit of cheese on it or something, or a bit of I don't know something, a parmesan or whatever. And I was just like I'll just take a couple of days off it's early days, if not I won't have a proper dinner Like I needed to eat a pizza or something and they just wouldn't do it without cheese.
Speaker 1:I was just like, okay, I'll have the cheese then, yeah, and have the cheese then yeah, and I guess that that you know it's stressful, isn't? It, that is stressful and now, like we've discussed, it's overall you can pretty much go most places and you can do something. It might not be ideal all the time, but you can pretty much for you like it's easier to stick to, but yeah it's, yeah there's, there's a lot to it because it can be. It's easy just to sort of meme, it isn't it basically like veganism.
Speaker 1:It's because of again, it's normally around social media because there is so much toxicity and there's so much negativity around veganism, carnival, everything, and it doesn't help. When you've got people online and I tried, I don't know how much you've seen of various. Like you know, they come up influences on online who follow, like the vegan diet or carnivore, but it there's so much misinformation about everything, every type of diet every way to.
Speaker 2:There's always a study that proves what you want, to be right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:and, and it's exhausting and and you know you've got what's his face. God, what's that guy called eddie? You do eddie abu yeah, and like it's. I don't really know more. Mercifully, I barely I've.
Speaker 1:He pops up because he's popular isn't he so like if I follow like certain fitness channels, they may critique what he said and it's just, you can't say he's completely harmless because he is coming out with stuff that's actually quite dangerous. If you want to tell everyone to meet and eggs, let me, um, meet, meet and eggs. Fucking hell, tell them to be me and eggs. Like fine, whatever, like go, go for it. But then he starts talking about like if you've got ibs and and it just, oh, don't worry about that, don't, don't take your medication, just eat meat and eggs and you'll be good to go.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, fucking hell that just seems kind of true, oh yeah it's, it's just it's rough, and then, and then, of course, like bigger influencers come on and go, this isn't good enough, and then it's just it's rough, and then, and then, of course, like bigger influences come on and go, this isn't good enough.
Speaker 1:And then it's just this vicious cycle of people reacting to what he said and like of course you got to call out because some of it's dangerous, but then it just it continues forever and then it, like liver King, it'll die out. Eventually Some other bozo will come along with the next big thing. Okay, here we go again. But I don't know if you've seen this guy, this carnivore. There's a guy, this carnivore guy, and he's like he hates vegetables. You know, he's really he's not not a big fan of vegetables, and you've got, he goes into supermarkets with his top off and he's just like punching broccoli.
Speaker 1:No, seriously like it's like I don't know why is his top off? He got his top off, yeah, and he's like yeah, good, good, good, good, Nick and stuff, but he's there holding this broccoli, like look at this, he's fucking going to kill you, and for do you want me to move that forward? No, that's.
Speaker 2:Fine, it's me being silly. Yeah, it's always just like what's entertaining or what's going to grab you, like a shirtless man punching broccoli. I mean that's. I love that as a side note on a script 2024 yeah, it's got to the point where it's like everything's been done. Have we been shirtless punching broccoli yet?
Speaker 2:no, we haven't yeah yeah, um, and yeah it's. I mean I try and still I know what you mean. I I try, and it's really hard not to, isn't it like? Because it is quite funny and you're almost like watching it, knowing it's done, but you're still watching it, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, it is harmless. It can be harmless like, but for some it's not. That's, that's the, that's the problem. People look at this guy who's top of punch broccoli and they're like, oh yeah so so broccoli's the devil?
Speaker 2:yeah, no broccoli for me people are like like that's now my philosophy. I'm not going to eat vegetables. It's not really good thing, to teach people, is it? Yeah and and then I'll be fucked.
Speaker 1:It's yeah it's, I don't know it's, it's, it's rough, it's rough. Yeah, we won't touch upon that too much, because you just go down a rabbit hole of shit don't you basically Make our own version?
Speaker 2:Yeah?
Speaker 1:Basically, the moral of that is, if you see people online who are labelled themselves like Carnivore Chris or, like you know, vegan Val, keto, karen, it's like probably best to maybe not avoid entirely because they might have some half decent information. But you know that they're not. They're going to be quite biased. If I start calling myself you're like you know, oh god, what's a diet that begins with b? Yeah, bread, only ben. And people start going yeah, but there's more to life than bread I've already done the pattern on my name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I'm fucked like if I start selling my own version of bread, or I start going everyone you must only eat bread, and if you're not, you're gonna fucking die.
Speaker 2:And I'm just like punching various items of food going to my top off like pick up the bread covering the nipples.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've kind of got to stick to it, unless I go oh, do you know what I was wrong? Sorry about that. I'm now called something else, because I'm now following another diet baked beans, yeah, yeah, beans. Ben, there you go, yeah, so be cautious of that.
Speaker 2:I'd say, if they got, if they got the diet in their name be wary that the information is going to be, but might be slightly biased, but that's it, isn't it like it's a very loud minority those sort of people, but they know that they they're there mainly for the revenue.
Speaker 2:They don't care about oh, it's, yeah, oh yeah, they might have originally cared about it, but when you know, when they get a lot of views, they're kind of like, well, if that's what's getting me views, I actually don't care what I do like, oh, what impression I'm having on people or information. I'm not, they don't care I think they just of.
Speaker 1:I'm not, it's exposure and the views. Yeah, it's not a bad thing to do because it's like you niche down to that degree. You don't need 10 000 people buying from you, if you just get. If you just niche down and go like I think you should just eat bread and that's it, I could just go right, do you know what? It's bread and beans? For me, that's it. And then if I get a good, if I get 100 people vegan diet, that will buy into the bread and beans diet from ben. I'm fucking quits in. I'm like 100 quid each place and then like they go.
Speaker 2:This is ridiculous but then beans on toast yeah beans on toast breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Speaker 1:You could go snacks like just bring your tin tin of beans spoon it out. Good to go if I can get 100 people on that pay me 100 pounds and I just recycle that over and over again I fucking made it should we?
Speaker 2:should we just quit stop the podcast and just start? Yeah?
Speaker 1:what's this space? Uh right, okay, um what else? We got supplements do you?
Speaker 1:are you consciously supplementing anything or are you? Do you feel like you're covering your bases, anything that you've? I guess supplements is a is a tricky one because I imagine the vast majority of vegans probably, even if their diet is spot on and they're being wary of certain supplements that they might or certain vitamins that they might be deficient in, you probably, I don't know you probably still need to maybe look at supplementing because you you'll still miss the barrier, even if you're really wary of it yes, it's one of the things, uh, going back to like the first couple of years, I definitely didn't know anything about and I had to teach.
Speaker 2:And then, like I was saying, like my advice to anyone who's thinking about going vegan is like, try and do it as informed as you can. But then it made me realize I should have been doing it. Anyone should do that with any diet. Really Like when I started going vegan, people are like are you getting your protein? Are you it really? Like when I started going vp like getting your protein? Are you getting this mineral? You're getting this vitamin is like why, all of a sudden, do you care about what vitamins and minerals I get? Why you didn't care about that before.
Speaker 2:It's kind of weird that you care now like so much it's not super, super easy, um, but anything worth doing, I don't think, is like um, yeah, for me I just met like, look at what I eat, okay, what am I missing in that? I need to add something that has that in it. So, like recently, I was sort of weighing up my iron. Realize I've been I haven't been eating as much spinach as I used to eat, so I've just been eating a bit more spinach. But then some of the milks I I have, or even some of this like wheatabix and stuff, is fortified with iron and is fortified with calcium and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So you, you can, if you're, you know, a little bit mindful about what you eat, what vegetables you have, what nuts you add to that. If you're having a flax seed, get your amigas in there. You can have a well-balanced diet with good vitamins and minerals. There will be times, like in the winter, when I think most people need vitamin d. Yeah, so I do supplement vitamin d in the winter, but hopefully I'm out enough to get it in the in the summer, um, and then b12 is the big one. So that that's the one where, as much as I've tried, you can't you actually can't get it in your diet no anymore, um, so I I do supplement b12, um, but that's like one chewable tablet a day.
Speaker 2:It's got a bit of b12 in it. I think it's got iodine, which is another thing that's quite difficult for, but I don't.
Speaker 1:Most people don't even know what that is, so it's like unless you find you're deficient in it, and even then you're're like, well, the fuck's that. Yeah, just take this, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Fine, yeah. And then it's vitamin C. I think a lot of people try and supplement, but I think that's quite an easy one to get in your diet, vitamin C, if you have enough fruit and veg, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're pretty. Yeah, it can be quite useful for some, but then again it depends what your diet is looking like overall, and that's the same for all supplements.
Speaker 2:Is that a lot of people, if your?
Speaker 1:diet is dog shit and you think, oh, just supplement, it's like what's not.
Speaker 2:But then he's not teaching you to help to fix your diet, so it should be like a. I want to supplement as little as I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So your diet up, so that's redundant because you're getting it in your food, yeah. And then it's like um, you know, like microbiotics and stuff like that. People are trying to oh, yeah, my gut health or whatever it's like. Why are you not just making your gut okay in the first place? By eating decent food. It's almost like everyone's trying to do fixes rather than not needing to be fixed yeah, they're supplementing a shit diet by having supplements.
Speaker 1:They're like oh, my diet's dog shit, so I'll just supplement it and then we'll just be about. We'll be about right.
Speaker 2:Oh well, just work on your diet a little bit first, yeah, and you feel so much better as well, yeah, so that's it.
Speaker 1:One a vegan is. That isn't like you said. Vitamin b12 is the big one, but it's inevitable that you're probably going to be, or if you're not, even if you're quite meticulous, there might be the zinc, the iron, the vitamin b12 calcium is obviously one as well. I, I guess I I wouldn't say to people oh, make sure you start supplementing straight away if you become, if you start following the vegan diet.
Speaker 2:But I think just track what you're eating, yeah yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's probably worth tracking for the first six months or whatever. Just to give you so you know that if your diet is pretty much the same for most people, that their diet give or take is 80% the same, like to a point, maybe the weekends they go a bit nuts but track that for a few months, see where you are in terms of your micronutrients and then from there you then sort of know well, do I need to add a. Do I need to add a vitamin b12 tab? In?
Speaker 2:yeah, but it's like I did early on. I was like I don't actually get that much zinc, because I was saying about zinc I was like okay, what foods have zinc? Oh, cashew nuts are really high in zinc. I'll snack on cashew nuts and then that covered it. It was just this really easy thing, and I use cashew nuts now to cream up sauces. So I blend it in my curry sauce, yeah, and then that's just like I know I've got my zinc there.
Speaker 2:And basically I've got a bag of like 500 grams of cashews and as long as I get through that in a week in dishes and in snacking, I know I've got my zinc for the week. So it's like and I don't even think about that anymore, but at first I was like I need to think about that now, I don't, because it's just part of my yeah.
Speaker 1:So what about creatine? Do you take creatine? No, I don't know. No, yeah, I get. Creatine is probably the one. Another big one as well, if you do you get it in diet then? You get it. You get it in meat, in red meat, so, and even then it's like once you've cooked the red meat, most of it's gone, so you'd have to. I think it's like something stupid, like to get five grams of creatine you'd have to eat fucking five pounds of red meat, or something stupid.
Speaker 2:But I always find, with stuff like that, it's like, yeah, red meat's got this, but it's like it's also like really high in saturated fat.
Speaker 1:And isn't it like a carcinogen, like yeah, I think your mobile phone's the same in terms of like red meat and and having a monster, monster energy drink.
Speaker 2:That's where I guess that yeah, in the weeds, isn't it? Yeah, you hear that guy's a carcinogen.
Speaker 1:It's gonna kill, it's gonna give you cancer. It's like yeah, no, but like so is your mobile phone. It's the same shit. Like no, no, I'm not looking at that. So yeah, like, yeah. Like anything with artificial sweeteners and all this stuff, there's until and like all this stuff might be right. Red meat might be killing everyone. Monster energy drinks, the old white monsters that people love might be killing everyone. Like the studies might come out eventually where it's like shit, bad news, yeah, those, yeah, those artificial sweeteners are actually going to give you cancer Eating red meat excessively. You're in big fucking trouble. Oh, no.
Speaker 2:But what would people do? That's the thing. People are aware that animals have to not to get well into it, but animals have to die for us to eat meat, right. There are people who know that it's not like that's a secret. People also us to eat meat right. There are people who know that it's not like that's a secret. People also know it's like a massive impact on the environment. And people also know that cutting red cutting me even you don't have to stop, but like cutting it will help, will be help, will make your diet healthier. But they don't. They just don't want to do it. There's like no, there's obviously like a small subculture that are doing it. But knowing that, knowing that information does for the masses doesn't matter, like you, really, it always needs to be like right, if you don't stop now, you might die or whatever people will start doing it. I don't know oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Even if all these studies came out like you still got to make a decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people are like, it's like smoking, it's like anything yeah, it's like smoking, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's like anything. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, like smoking is fucking terrible. It's like just stop doing it. Yeah, I quite like it. Yeah, I enjoy it. It's part of my life. Yeah, I like it. Okay, yeah, but with smoking.
Speaker 2:They had to. Well, they are now, aren't they? They basically have to, like, force it. If they didn't do that, people would have carried on, I think yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:It's the pit smoking's terrible but, there is for the next generation, for kids, of course, try and get them off it and don't get them to start in the first place, but then for someone like my nan, she's like 84 years old, she's been smoking her whole fucking life.
Speaker 1:Like let her have her cigarette. It's like it's it's I, I of course I get it, but for some people it's almost just like it's a little bit too late. Just just let them. Let them enjoy it. So I you know it's obviously the repercussions of doing it for the youngsters and for the next generation and stuff and like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sucks, it's a bad habit, but they're too busy like vaping on their weird elf, oh god yeah, I do find it quite fascinating watching school kids.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on, watching school kids. Let me finish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say yeah, we've had some issues with the whole kids things before. Yeah watching.
Speaker 1:I find it fascinating watching school kids vape when I've been like walking along and I've just seen these school kids just whipping out these vapes it's just like fuck it. It's like a status thing, like when I was a kid, it used to be what color jvc gummy headphones you have.
Speaker 2:And now it's like what flavor yeah, elf bar like.
Speaker 1:What flavor of bubblegum have you got this week?
Speaker 2:and like can you blow it in everyone's face, but it's like it's nicotine, it's like that's quite a bit.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine what that's like when people at school and these kids are in class whipping out these vapes and I'm sorry, can you not vape in class? Yeah, oh, so we've gone from. Can you put your mobile phone away to oh, can you not vape in class? Yeah, fucking hell, dear God, some teachers salute you. Fuck me, holy hell.
Speaker 2:They're probably vaping in the cupboard. They're on the hard, they're on the actual cigarettes just to get over the stress of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be honest, apart from, apart from like get into the into the weeds with like lucene and all this stuff, I don't know, is there anything else that you feel like it's really worth having a chat about in terms of like, just in and around, vegan and what's more, because I've got stuff about like fake meats and all this like what they call like impossible burger yeah, yeah, the bear brands, aren't they?
Speaker 2:yeah?
Speaker 1:like I don't. How do you? Are you into those? Do you have those? Are they? Are they in your diet? Are you?
Speaker 2:yeah, whatever about them I'm a bit, a bit, whatever I'm like. I'm conscious that, yeah, they are like a I'm fairly processed, um, but I feel like they're still better than having a burger sort of thing.
Speaker 1:What about corn? Are you is that?
Speaker 2:I guess it's the same thing yeah, like I think they're partnered out with greg sausage roll, so I've had a, had a few of them, right, but um, at first I think they're a really good transitional thing because, like most people, the thing they struggle with when they stop eating meat is like I need that meat sort of you know because I remember when I first had, I had a pasta and I was just mincing this or I need something, I need like on it or something, and it just felt like there was something missing and it was almost like, oh, I'm not getting this thing and these mock meats give you that without the.
Speaker 2:You know the effects on the environment and the moral stuff, it's just a way of doing it. And then some people just stay like that. They're like, oh, I'm happy, I just want to be here, but it's not like. That's like still an amazing diet. And I think a lot of people think, oh, veganism is healthy. It's like sugar's vegan. You know it's not the. If you have too much of that, it's not great. And, like you know, you can obviously have like processed foods and high fat stuff you can have a shit vegan diet like.
Speaker 1:You can still overeat and go into a calorie surplus and eat junk on a vegan diet.
Speaker 2:Easily. I think a lot of people probably think oh, you know, you do a vegan diet.
Speaker 1:You're good to go.
Speaker 2:Eat, whatever you want.
Speaker 1:You can't eat junk on a vegan diet. No, no, you can, Definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:I've definitely had that. Yeah, but yeah, I personally try, if I can, to eat plant-based thing. So like, yeah, rice, rice, pasta, potato is a base and then, um, I'd prefer like a, like a bean protein or something like that like, rather than a muck burger. So like, well, tofu is quite good, actually, because it's like not, it's not that process, it's soy made into a little thing and you're like tempeh, do you have like into that kind of yeah, like it not at home, like I'll have it in like a restaurant or home, like I'll have it in like a restaurant or something it's not a big thing in the UK, is it, nah you?
Speaker 2:can see it and I look at it and it's quite scary. I'm like what do I do with you?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 2:I had quite a lot of it when I was in Bali. Going back to the meal thing, I really like making curry from scratch and then chuck a load of tofu in that and then I'm good to go Like broccoli, mushrooms, you know just stuff there, and that to me is like a I don't know. I know I'm not adding too much processed stuff into that and I know it's like fairly healthy. It's hitting all the micronutrients and stuff like that and it tastes good right there. You don't want to like get oh, I've hit my base but ink cardboard sort of thing. You, you want to enjoy it. Um, so yeah, it's finding a dish that does that for you do you feel like protein wise you're good like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was that a struggle initially, or was that pretty, I think, easy to there's a bit.
Speaker 2:I think that I don't know if I'm pretty careful what I'm saying in front of uh, someone who knows, but I think it's a bit of a fallacy to think that you can't eat too much protein Only if you're looking to build muscle or you're training a lot. It's quite hard not to eat too much protein as long as you're eating enough calories. Most meals you want to pair with a protein anyway, even if it's a mock burger or something, or tofu, baked beans, whatever, even something like rice. Isn't that like 10 protein, isn't it?
Speaker 1:or like nine percent protein. Yeah, a lot of foods that you don't associate with having protein in have got it adds up. Like you know, oats and rice and pasta and potatoes like they they've got protein in, so if you're getting a good amount of those every day, it adds up, yeah so I've been.
Speaker 2:I was tracking early on and there were some days I was like, oh, to be honest, I didn't have any like proper focus on protein, but I was still getting enough, like I and people not not, it's not protein deficient. I was maybe not like getting a some because you want to get over there a little bit just to make sure you're, you know, capture or whatever, but it's quite easy, I think. Then then people think I think it's one of those things that people jump on because it's like meat equals protein.
Speaker 1:You're not eating meat, therefore you know you're in protein I imagine a lot of people that might say that aren't aren't maybe getting a lot of protein in anyway. Because I think for once you've done it continuously and you've got, and you've got into the habit of being more conscious of what's how much proteins in this and that and the rest of it. It then starts to become easier. You start to have your protein like every like. If you have snacks, for example, you start to then try and base them around protein, maybe some fat, whatever, but you don't just eat whatever it's always like okay, so for a snack I'm gonna have something protein bag, I'm gonna have some yogurt, I'm gonna do this and do whatever.
Speaker 1:Once you've got into that habit, then it becomes a lot easier. I think, initially for people who aren't really conscious what they're eating and their diet like across the board, whatever diet they're following, they are just probably getting most of their protein from like the net protein, from like rice and from your pastas and from your oats and stuff. And if they are getting it from meats, if they are like on the wall like their, their meats might be. In terms of quality, that links in as well with a lot of vegetarians and vegans. They tend to be healthier overall just because they're also not smoking. They might not be drinking alcohol.
Speaker 2:They might be exercising more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so their lifestyle overall is just a lot healthier than meat eaters or people who are eating a lot of red meat, and also a lot of that red meat might be processed. It might be ultra-processed.
Speaker 2:It might be really shitty like frozen doner kebabs and all that sort of stuff rather than like, or a nice lean fillet steak which is like when people like they compare the, the price sort of thing, like you're saying they're not the good cuts. You know your chicken breasts and you. You're late, but they're quite expensive, aren't they? Like relatively um. Whereas like a good lentil is a lentil like there's no like. Do I mean like you can just get a there's no like that's.
Speaker 1:That's a fine cut over there. It's a rib eye for the price, yeah, but you know I mean like yeah like you don't really get that with plant-based foods.
Speaker 2:Uh, in the same way, but I I do. I am conscious that, like, if you go to like a free from section and you look at the alternative versions of certain products they are the prices are inflated, like your milks. It's cheaper to buy a milk from a cow than it is to buy own milk, mostly because of subsidies, but that's another conversation. But and that's I get that there's a jump there. If you still want to have your cereal, if you still want to have you know teas and stuff, you're gonna have to spend a bit more on your milk. Now, like there's, there is that. But let a bag of lentils compare to like steak or whatever.
Speaker 2:I know most people are like how is that even comparable like dare you but over time, when you you know how to cook a good bolognese with your lentils, I can. I can make that comparison in my head, like I like but yeah, and that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's the biggest thing for me with being a vegetarian vegan. I would happily eat more vegan based stuff, but it's just the the only thing I, the only thing I've struggled with is that if I was, if, like fiona became a vegan, which is like I'm a vegan, now I'm vegetarian there's, there's yeah, it sounds a to be obvious, but there's just no in between yeah, there's no like okay, you know, monday to friday, you know I'll eat vegetarian based stuff, like vegan based stuff, like no problem.
Speaker 1:But like over on sunday, oh, should we have a you know a bit of a lamb roast or something like you know, come on no, no, that's not that's not how it works. Ben, oh shit, okay, okay that that's. That's my only thing is that?
Speaker 1:there's just unfortunately, there is just no in between it's like if you follow that diet you follow that diet, unless you do just follow that diet, but you just dip in and go. Oh, yeah, I'm under the Friday which is not a bad thing, I think, if you do that 90% of the time and you might have the occasional bit of meat, or you might have like certain occasions, and I don't think that's a bad thing, is it? I'm sure that can be demonized as well. People are like, oh, you're either all in or you're not. It's a fucking gamble.
Speaker 2:Both communities hate you because you're anti-vegan and people are. You're vegan most of the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's really good, though, if you're going into the moral stuff and the environment stuff. If everyone didn't eat meat on Monday, it's ridiculous to know.
Speaker 2:Like to see but they have positive effect. That has on, like, water usage and, like you know, co2 and stuff like that. Um, and it's also most people. It's it's unrealistic to think, yeah, one week you're eating meat and one week you just stop. There's just, it's just unrealistic. Yeah, um, and it and and I think I'm lucky that I just live with my wife, who is also vegan it's easy for me, like, I open the fridge, I can eat everything in there. Um, we both did it together, like we was like supporting each other. You know, we, we compared notes, you know all that stuff, whereas not everyone can do that like it is, especially if, like, let's say, you're 15 year old at home and you start watching that you go, I want to be vegan.
Speaker 2:You go to your mum. Mum, I want to be vegan. I'm not cooking another dinner for you, like that's effort yeah, it's not you know, yeah, you know, tomorrow I'm going to start my diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if there's nothing in place if it's not realistic. You might do it for a week and then it's like oh, this, this is ridiculous. Here's your, here's your, here's your new diet. Here's like here's your workout, right? So six times a week in the gym, um, you know, a thousand calories, like 200 grams of protein. That sounds good. Yeah, good luck. Six weeks weekend.
Speaker 2:Fuck me. You just you've got to ease yourself in. You've got a trial and error and you've got to be okay with failing. You've got to be okay with doing it really badly. Um, to get to the point where, okay, this is routine, I'm quite good at this, I'm reaping the benefits. You know that beginning stage is actually not an easy stage to be in mentally and to get through, and I think a lot of people I understand just stop and I can't be arsed, I'll just get a big mac or something yeah, well, you know me, I've got fucking how much do you want?
Speaker 2:it's all here, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think that realistically, if you want to come back in the future more than happy to, you're a lot better looking than.
Speaker 2:Fiona, I've been looking across the table.
Speaker 1:It's like this is all right. Luckily, this is the good side of your side, so look, yeah, if there's anything else you feel like is vegan wise, then we'll finish off on that. Um, I know you want to say like I have five minutes at the end to talk about, like extra stuff about running, because there's a question about running I want to talk about as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah if there's anything vegan based or diet based, then yeah, go for it yeah, like I think we covered all the things I was expecting to chat with you about. Um, it's tough, like I was saying to you. It's um, I I'm in a lucky position where I've hadn't really had to thought about it for the last five years really, and I live, I live away from home and my wife's vegan and stuff. So I don't I try and I try, and at first I was trying to shout about it. I was kind of like, oh, did you know, if you did this, that you know you'll be a better person. You were saying earlier like, um, oh, you're a better, I'm automatically better now because I'm, because I'm vegan. I didn't didn't shout about that, but I was kind of like you know what it is?
Speaker 1:a really righteous thing to do you should do it.
Speaker 2:Why aren't you doing it? And that's not helpful for everyone, like it's. You know, maybe some people need to be not forced into it but like shouted at. But most people want a slow, I don't know. They want to take in that knowledge and then make that decision for themselves. They don't really like forced into it, they just you know. So now I know, I just don't think about it, I don't really talk about it, like, and I don't consume that much stuff about it. But if people ask questions I'm like, yeah, whatever. So there's nothing that we haven't touched upon that I want to scream about, but I do.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good thing to do Like, if you can do it like at least try sort of meet free Mondays. It's a good thing to do like, if you can do it like at least try sort of meat free mondays at least. Um, be a bit open-minded about it and watch a couple of documentaries and um, I think anyone can do it. I know, like some people, I can never do it. I can never. There's a guy I work for an environmental organization. There's a guy who's like he's got his tesla and he's got all this and he's like I know, I know being vegan will help the environment.
Speaker 2:I just can't do it like I. I'm like if you put your mind to it, you get you. You can like. We say I can't. You technically can like, you just need to try and it's not easy, but you can. Um, but, yeah, just just see and also like yeah, make make it personal to you trial and error and all that stuff like that. Um, trying to follow other people's food plans, try and make your own, because I know some people jump into that, don't they like? Look online and find a vegan food plan, eat foods they don't like and go. I don't like being vegan. It's like, oh, you just ate something you don't like.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, yeah, and it's yeah, it's different for everyone, isn't it? It's everyone people like, if you're single, you're 20 and like you've got no responsibility, you know I'm going to uni or I'm not going to work or whatever, and you go, do you know what? I'm just gonna try this whole vegan thing. It's a lot easier to potentially stick to or start as opposed to, like you know, the guy in his 40s, two kids, wife, yeah, mortgage, right, that's it right, vegan this is what we're gonna to do all right. Well what?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the kids got to start eating like a vegan. We've all got we're vegan like and we're strict. There's no, no, no, like dipping in and out this is it.
Speaker 2:There is a distinction between plant-based and vegan as well. Yeah, I think some people put them hand in hand and um, it's just I don't know. There's one's more of like a you got the more moral stance and one of them is just like trying to eat that sort of way. You know, it's like a diet thing, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Do we need to touch upon that? I don't think we need to.
Speaker 2:No, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think plant-based should be pretty much like prescribed to most people Try and eat predominantly plant-based stuff and then from there, if you're eating meat fish, okay, but yeah, I think, I think plant-based is just like aim for that, aim for 80 and then you've got your 20, like you die 80 of healthy foods and then 20 of unhealthy or naughty foods.
Speaker 1:I think it kind of works with the plant-based stuff, doesn't it? Try and get as much as you can in and then that that that additional 20, depending on what you want to do, work from there. But we touched upon it.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of negativity around veganism, so realistically, other than getting to the minutiae of like right, let's talk about lucy and let's talk about all this is like you can't help but go god. Did you see this online? Did you see blog? Like how do you feel about this? And, like you know, you touch upon it a little bit with like friends and stuff, like oh.
Speaker 2:I'm not surprised, but fucking hell, you see a lot of um, really like there's a you know articles in the I don't know like the the least scientific study you could do.
Speaker 2:Or like oh, lettuce has a really bad effect on the environment. Therefore, stop being vegan. It's like you know non-vegans eat lettuce as well. Right, it's just like this weird attack against. And the almond thing, you know, oh, almond milk is worse than you know, so bad. Or soy, you know, like, deforestation, it's like you do know that most deforestation happens to make soy to feed the animals that we don't need to. You know like, it's just like this weird wanting to go right, how can we quickly, you know, attack them? Or there's a study that comes out quick. That's just like um, I don't know, maybe it's just like that's what my algorithm is trying to do to me. No, but, like I said, you've got blokes in supermarkets, topless punching broccoli yeah that's, that's it like how have we what we're doing?
Speaker 1:what the fuck are we doing? What's going on, like just if you don't want to eat vegetables because you think they're going to kill you, just do it in the corner but then again, it's all rolls around.
Speaker 2:I hope he's paying for that blocker at.
Speaker 1:Broccoli, I can imagine he's probably not. He's the sort of guy that you see.
Speaker 2:he just picks up random bits of items, twirls it around, punches it a bit, pokes at it. He's like supporting the broccoli industry because he's funding it by paying for broccoli that he can punch yeah.
Speaker 1:You see this guy who's top off punching broccoli.
Speaker 2:You think there's so many questions to ask this guy, but it's um, you hurt you as the first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just it's, it's, it's tough. It's tough, it is difficult, it is, it is tough to try and actually eat or follow or do anything. Because if, like most people, they've got some form of social media that they look at every day and they see that and they think, oh god, that's it's all. Every time, every food now in some capacity is demonized, like we're not, we've gone, we've gone beyond the whole. Oh, fat's the devil. Don't eat fats, you'll get fat carbs, the devil sugar.
Speaker 1:You addicted to sugar, you're gonna die. We've gone beyond that now. We've gone like. Now we're talking about individual foods. We're not just talking about macronutrients, we're talking about individual food. If you eat broccoli, you will die. Oh, fucking hell that's.
Speaker 2:That's a leap, isn't it? Yeah, so I don't know yeah I think with anything there's no right or wrong either. There's that it's not a simple. Life is not never that simple. There's so much nuance to everything and then we all slot into it in our own little way that's different from everyone. So you just can't compare yourself and you can't do the right thing. Ultimately, you just have to do your best you know, whatever that is, I've had some like to end it yeah yeah, get your protein in, get some fiber in.
Speaker 1:Be informed, you know, I think luckily with vegan, you naturally get get your protein in.
Speaker 2:Get some fibre in. Yeah, be informed. Luckily, with vegan, you naturally get your fibres. You get loads of really good macronutrients, but yeah, micronutrients sorry. But yeah, make sure you should probably supplement B12 and just keep an eye. Eat more than you think as well, which is actually quite a good thing.
Speaker 2:The positive mental health impact of running, or even it as a form of an outlet for some people, because I know but both you and I were, you know we're affiliated and our backgrounds in mental health projects and, and you know, charities I used to work for mental health projects and, um it, I don't know there's definitely a massive link between exercising, being active, and mental health. Like scientifically, you know, dolphins and stuff like that your body's like I was giving you a reward for doing the thing. But I feel like running is almost for me personally, that was going back to the lockdown thing. That was my outlet, like it was as much as it was me trying to stay active. Whenever I did it, it just made me feel like incredible and it was like getting me out and out to the woods and stuff like that feel about green, social prescribing, trying to get yourself out into nature.
Speaker 2:There's like loads of science behind how that helps. And if you're running as well, you're in nature, you're being active, there's just like like this you know, symphony of all these good things that are like your body's taking in and you're like, wow, quite good. Actually, I do implore people, if they're you know, if they're you know could do with an outlet, try running, because I I genuinely think like if you can do it, it's a really good, good option yeah, yeah, you're getting up.
Speaker 1:You get a bit of everything, aren't you getting your exercise, getting outside, mental health wise, you're getting that. You're getting the chance to clear your head a little bit, which is it goes across the board with a lot of exercise, but sometimes it depends also the intensity of the exercise as well. Like, if you're doing HIIT training, like HIIT training, do HIIT training, but in terms of HIIT training, do HIIT training, but in terms of other than you. You feel better after it. So your mental health, you feel better because you've exercised. I don't know how much clarity you get.
Speaker 1:I don't know how much you're clearing your mind because you're you're like you're fucking balls to the wall for 30 minutes doing. Hiit training. You go for a leisurely walk. You go for nice scenery, not night yeah you know good podcasting, good music. Ultimately it's like what's going to work for you, like what can you stomach, what can you stick to, but without being a runner. And I can't imagine I'm ever going to be a runner.
Speaker 1:But walking, walking was a big thing for me around lockdown I was I always associated walking with like, oh god, god, I have to walk, we're getting in a bloody walk there that was a big thing for me.
Speaker 1:I always used to have a, a sort of an, you know I used to associate walking. It's just a pain in the ass. So doing that over lockdown and I've kept that now and with you know, with like a lot of people, they're stuck in front of their laptops a lot of the day and stuck, you know, chained to a desk and they don't move around a lot. So, yeah, I think walking is is just a huge thing. Yeah, and there's various studies about getting as little as like 10 minutes of walking in two, three times a week will improve your mental health by X amount improve your, you know everything, your health overall.
Speaker 1:You haven't got to overcomplicate it Like we've spoke about with dieting. Exercise can fall into that bracket as well it can be like oh, am I doing the right exercise? Am I doing this? Am I doing that? Oh, bracket as well. It can be like oh, am I doing the right exercise? Am I doing this? Am I doing that?
Speaker 2:oh, like that personal line is doing that although sheila down the road's doing this, doing like, doing crossfit, and that looks like a window every day. Yeah, she's doing her kibble right, she's doing like this that's a good point, though, like the whole comparison thing, that's a really important thing to know. Isn't it like not to compare yourself to people, especially with running and walking, and like strava can be a little bit bad in that sense, and it's that class and game of fighting, yeah and like oh they're doing this time, or they're running this amount of miles there and I'm not.
Speaker 2:Therefore I'm lesser than them, or like I'm a bad person. It's like it's, it's all relative, like. So the whole classic comparison is the FIFA joy, isn't?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, you're almost focusing on what they're doing rather than beating your previous weekly best, which is what you should be focusing on. You can only the only person you can be in that side is yourself. Yeah, and you know it's easier said than done, but I think that's so important to try not to focus on what other people are doing. Yeah, like that's like I'm a bit wary whenever I talk to people running in that and I'm like, yeah, if I run a marathon, it's kind of like this, like quite a bit of an achievement it, but then it's other people are gonna get into that. And I was like, yeah, but I was in your position a few years ago. I had to work up to this.
Speaker 2:Like, you know, you shouldn't compare yourself to me, someone who's been running for four years, and you've been running for like four weeks. It just doesn't make sense and I think a lot of people got to be careful of that on social media as well like comparing themselves to there's a lot of stuff on social media of people doing these amazing things and like running and it's and it's inspiring and it's and it's really, you know, it's helpful, but just don't bring yourself down, because, because it's such a a standard that you feel like you might be able to get to that point if you are a gardener. But they've been training for years. So yeah, yeah, it's it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, it's always. It's just like starting is always the hardest, isn't?
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 1:You can't get away from starting a new diet, starting a new exercise regime, starting getting the ball rolling is is difficult, and the irony of it is that you meant you know you might be, your mental health might not be in a good place and because it's not in a good place place, you've got no motivation or discipline or whatever to start exercising. So he's trying to get over that hump. Yeah, to start doing any form of exercise or just moving around a bit more, being a bit more conscious of your diet, which should well, it almost guaranteed will improve your mental health to a point which will then motivate you to then do the exercise and do that more often, because you know there's a correlation.
Speaker 2:Now it's just getting over that if you know, if you're not feeling motivated.
Speaker 1:If your mental health's not in a good place, the last thing you want to do you're like. You know you need to exercise more, move around a bit more. You know you could probably improve your diet a little bit and it just makes you feel worse because I know I need to do this. I need to add that to the list. Fucking hell. It's just trying to get that. It's just trying to find anything running might be it, walking whatever which can get you get the ball rolling, to improve how you feel.
Speaker 2:And then it starts to link in yeah, I think walking is a good example of that, going back to what you said earlier, because it that's a super accessible thing most people should be able to do that and it's a low impact like you can walk 10 miles one day, wake up the next day and probably be able to do some walking the next day.
Speaker 2:But if you ran 10 miles, you're not what you can't do anything the next day. For most people I know, 10 miles is actually a really bad example because that's bloody yeah, but it's an extreme, isn't it? Yeah, you're never going to get away from those extremes, but yeah, like um and even like the, the weight loss and active thing, I think it's underestimated how many calories you use when you walk. Isn't it Like if you walk for an hour, you're burning a fair amount of calories doing that?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and it goes into the calories that you burn during the day. A lot of people think, oh, you burn half of them doing exercise, going to the gym, lifting weights, going on the treadmill, whatever. But in reality you're only burning about 5%. Any exercise you do, even stuff that's quite intense, you're only really going to burn about 5% of your total calories through that planned exercise, and that could be running, that could be lifting weights, that could be hydroxyl, whatever. 60 to 70% is burned from just existing, and then you've got your knee. You've got your knee and then that burns like, say, you know 20%. So you've got 60, 70% just sitting here, existing.
Speaker 1:Then you've got your knee, and then you've got 10% left, 5% towards exercise and then 5% towards digestion of food. So in the grand scheme of things, like doing that little bit of exercise, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2:Do it if you enjoy it like try and find something you can enjoy because the other benefits as well, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, but walking getting that walking is going to make up more in terms of more calories burned than doing that exercise that you probably didn't want to do in the first place.
Speaker 2:Yeah but that's why diet is so key, isn't it? When you're just sitting around? Even so, even if you're being quite active, it's still a small amount of your, your used calories that day, like even when I did the marathon, I think that's 3 000 calories. It's quite a lot actually, but it's still. I still was my base, is it? The knee? Is the base calories right? It's probably a couple of thousand there, isn't it? For me, maybe?
Speaker 1:um, yeah. So I guess, like, yeah, your bmr will be, you know, like 1600 say in terms of like if you just sat in your chair all day, you'd still burn that amount of calories. And then, yeah, based on your activity levels, which are going to be pretty high, you'll then bump that up to, you know, mid 2000s, high 2000s, and then yeah, it's still more the if I just sat, if I, yeah, they did, it's still more if I just sat there.
Speaker 2:Isn't it like, as in, compared to the active calories?
Speaker 1:because people then go exercise and they and they go and exercise to burn calories, which I think is not a really good thing to get into the habit of like oh if I go, if I go to the gym and I burn on my apple watch which says like 800 calories fucking hell, do you think they should get rid of? Don't ever treat exercise as a way to burn calories. Apple Watches and any type of watch that tells you how many calories you're burning I think can and it's not that accurate either is it no.
Speaker 1:It's wildly off a lot of the time. Not wildly, but it's not great.
Speaker 2:And oh.
Speaker 1:I can have a min consuming. That's that might. That might involve some form of tracking for a period of time, just to give you an idea. But don't don't look at that and think, oh god, I've burned 800 calories because you, if you've already worked out your calories for the day, you know, based on your activity levels and your calories and how much what you're doing, and protein, all the rest of it you know that your calories are set at this amount. So don't, don't get to that amount but then also go. Well, I've also burned an additional 800 calories here.
Speaker 2:Okay, there we go, because you have a false sense of being able to eat more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I feel a lot of people. But then again that goes into the same thing. If people are going out to run because they've chosen that as their form of exercise but they hate it, that can. Then they look at their watch and go oh fucking, I think, fuck, 600 calories I've burned. Oh, yes, I'm going to run back and eat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to have a buffet when I get back rather than you go and do an exercise you enjoy. You don't whatever. You don't care about how many calories you've burned. You've just gone. Oh, that was a good use of an hour, okay. I feel pretty good, I feel strong. I did this, did that diet, and you should eat like normal you don't like.
Speaker 2:The motivation shouldn't be oh, I can eat more if I act, if I'm more active. Yeah, that shouldn't be a motivation.
Speaker 1:It's like it sort of is my motivation a little bit. To be honest to me, like I, I enjoy, I enjoy walking, I enjoy doing all that, but I like it. It gives me a bit of a buzz because I know like well, if I'm not active, if I don't get my steps in, if I don't go to the gym unless I want to start putting on weight and I eat the same amount of food give or take, I'm going to start putting on weight. So, and it depends and also what I do with that time I'm active, when I'm getting steps in, I put a podcast in listen to stuff that I enjoy it could be music in the gym.
Speaker 1:If I'm not trying to lift heavier weights, I'm trying to progressive second commute to my gym. Still, some days I'm like fuck that, I don't want to do that. But I know that if I sat that off and I have a few days away, for whatever reason, I don't exercise, I don't move as much, my mental health goes in the bin, it suffers. But that's taken me a long time to get to that point. Long time to get to that point, yeah, so initially, like it took me a while to get to there in the first place. I had to go through months and years of doing it to get to that point where it was like this is now part of the routine, not like, oh god, bloody hell, like this.
Speaker 2:This is the setup and if I don't do it, I feel worse for not doing it yeah, I'll be honest, like I, um, I have my focus in the last four months has been training for this marathon. So, like I know I need to do these runs and they all set out for me. I've made a training plan for myself. I was like, right, I need to stick to these things and if you look at my phone, you can see how, like probably over organized I am. I've got a training plan and even when I've done one, I'll write down how many miles I've done, how I felt and stuff like that. When that's done, I've done my marathon. Give myself a week off.
Speaker 2:This week I've really struggled like to like know what to do. Uh, you know, I haven't felt as like fresh and, like you know, because I haven't been out running. My body needs to recover so I can't run and that's been like a good, not proof, but maybe a bit of proof of like yeah, no, it does help because, like you, almost like took a week off to sit there and and it showed you how much, how much better you feel with if you were running or if you were actively. It doesn't have to be running, but you know, walking and being out. I haven't done any sort of gym exercises either. So I'm feeling a little bit like weak, which is um, yeah, it's interesting, I. I think when you stop, when you don't realise you feel good until you stop doing the thing, you're like, oh, I was doing good and I didn't realise you're just being you. Then you stop the thing and you don't feel great. That's like an indication of that thing being good for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no yeah, that's a good point, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's just trying to get to that thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point yeah but it's just trying to get to that thing, yeah, and it takes X amount of time it's not just like oh, tomorrow I'm just going to start doing that and you also can't, no one might.
Speaker 2:It's hard to know that you feel okay because you just it's almost like a base level, isn't it? Feeling good is almost like okay, I'll just do my day, and you just happen to feel good. You just, you, just you just don't feel, not shit. That makes sense. Yeah, no, yeah, um, yeah, yeah, it needs. It needs time away from that to know what it, what it takes to get to that.
Speaker 1:Um, sometimes I think yeah, well, unless there's anything else you want to end on, there's no there's no flashy outro.
Speaker 2:To be honest, I've absolutely grabbed away um no, it's good.
Speaker 1:It's good stuff, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:I think it was yeah, as it was good stuff, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:I hope so it was yeah, as I said at the start, as my 15-minute intro, I was like I'm not going to talk as much now. I'm going to let the guest speak.
Speaker 2:Fucking hell mate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like this is the new beginning Me like trying to shut up a little bit.
Speaker 2:Is this your Joe Rogan era?
Speaker 1:Yes, shut up a little bit. And is this your Joe Rogan era?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, what like having a little having the tangents but then trying to then rein it back in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we've done alright actually. Yeah, I think yeah, there should be plenty of like 30 second clips anyway, at the very least like two hours, well like you said, I'll separate it into two episodes. Where things make sense, I think there'd be, do you?
Speaker 2:want to try your bar. Tell me what you think. You're a Biscoff fan?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah go on then. Yeah, all right, let's have a look. See, my only issue with, and this is just I don't normally eat these by the way. No, this isn't like just vegan bars.
Speaker 2:It's the fact that they call these high-protein bars, I know yeah, their, that's what gets me you know like Veganuary the January. It's hilarious to see like brands that don't normally care about it. They all of a sudden promote their bread as being vegan. It's like bread's always been vegan. Why, all of a sudden, are you like? It's because it's Veganuary and they're trying to get the sales anyway. What do you think? Tastes like Bischoff? It's like a snickersy thing, isn't it?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, tastes top notch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good that's one of the things people are like. They just think being vegan is oh, you can't have chocolate, because they associate chocolate with having dairy and it's like, well, you know, chocolate's cacao mixed with stuff. Yeah, yeah, you can still eat some good stuff yeah, no, I'm impressed with that. That's yours now yeah, thanks very much. I'll have the blue one because I'm quite peckish like 7 grams of protein.
Speaker 1:It's like yeah, it's better than nothing, but it's like don't call it high protein. I know bloody hell they're all guilty of it.
Speaker 2:Like you said, it's all marketing yeah and again like the yogurts stuff it's people oh yeah, go for it, people.
Speaker 1:People buy that sort of stuff and it's like oh, high protein seven grams yeah, and it's like fucking hell, we'll not. Yeah, you can have, you can have a spoon of peanut butter and that's got the same amount of protein in. So again it's. It is a mindfuck out there. It's not easy, but anyway, I mean, I think that will do it, as I said, no no fat no fancy outro just uh as I said I'm sure we'll have you get a little jingle going on one of those buttons.
Speaker 2:Oh Christ, don't let me. Oh no, I've just muted.
Speaker 1:you Shut up, Danny.
Speaker 2:Wish you could do that. There you go. Oh, there we go Nice. That's about right.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's the processing. How do you turn? Oh, probably do that. That's the processing. How do you turn? Probably do that. What else? We've got music bird. Yeah, I need to use this more often.
Speaker 2:Improv like a little intro.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is great actually. Yeah, I know so when Fiona's talking.
Speaker 2:Push, pull, help. That was like the melody of that, wasn't it? She's getting a bit boring, yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah, I'm going to. It's just laziness. They're there, ready to go and you can put your own bits in. So, I've got these various segments Do the music.
Speaker 2:One again. There's a natural jingle there.
Speaker 1:Oh, this one.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Push pull, health, push pull, health, push pull, oh hell.
Speaker 2:This is like late night Push pull health.
Speaker 1:And the balls of luck yeah.
Speaker 2:This is like late night with.
Speaker 1:Ben, that's uh, that could work, but you can put your own sounds in. So again, just laziness, but um, as I said, new era, yeah.
Speaker 2:I can, just I can see it cutting away to you, just like doing some oh yeah, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure when Fiona comes back I'll be like oh, this is, danny told me to do this. So when she starts fucking going nuts, when I'm like doing all these songs, she goes like just just speak, just shut up. Danny was only suggesting it. Yeah, all right, then. Yeah, well, thanks, very much Thanks, danny.
Speaker 2:I'm sure.
Speaker 1:I'll have you back in the future Long, but I'm sure there's plenty more that we can delve into. Yeah, sorry if.
Speaker 2:I've. Maybe I went on some mad tangents there or a bit irrelevant, no, no, no, worse than. A bit preachy at times.
Speaker 1:No, but the thing is like you can't, it's not preachy is it, but it's just yeah again.
Speaker 2:you can't say it without?
Speaker 1:No, it's the stigma, isn't it? It's.
