Push Pull Health
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully 'Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life.'
Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life coaching.
The weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily Rot' email also includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom.
Howdy,
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition!
I'm asking you to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days!
Have you tried to improve Your health in the past...?
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits - only to start the same rotten cycle again?
You can count your own reps...
Push Pull Health
How To Sleep Better & Achieve Total Recall in 2024 (Part 1)
What does your rotten health attitude struggle with most?
2 Week Trial on the app Ben keeps banging on about
Push Pull Health Calorie Calculator
This podcast is a proud member of the PodPack Collective, an indie podcasting group dedicated to spreading positivity (yes, I am) within the podcast community. For more information, head to podpackcollective
Can Late-Night Snacking Sabotage Your Sleep Quality?
Our latest episode unravels the complex relationship between eating habits and rest. Can that midnight snack really mess with your sleep?
Drawing from personal experiences and expert advice, we discuss how adjusting meal timings can make a world of difference. Whether you're battling cravings or wondering about the impact of that late-night coffee, we have practical tips to help you optimize your eating schedule for better sleep.
What Happens in Your Brain at Night?
Ever wondered what's happening in your brain during those deep hours of the night? We break down the fascinating science behind non-REM and REM sleep, shedding light on how each stage benefits your mind and body.
Expert Insights and Cool Tips
Drawing inspiration from sleep expert Matthew Walker, we explore why a cool bedroom isn't just a comfort but a necessity. Plus, hear our quirky anecdotes about sleep paralysis and morning routines that might make you rethink your bedtime habits.
Chronotypes: Are You a Morning Lark or a Night Owl?
Understanding your chronotype could be the key to unlocking peak productivity and better health. We delve into how different sleep patterns affect our daily lives and touch on shift workers' unique challenges. We also bust myths about 'catching up' on sleep and discuss the rare gene that allows a lucky few to thrive on minimal rest.
Bonus Segments:
- Revenge Bedtime Procrastination: Why do we stay up late even when tired?
- Napping for New Parents: Tips and tricks to catch up on sleep when you can.
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben each week to forcefully 'Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life.'
Expect foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life coaching.
The Weekly Audio & Video Expansion on The world famous 'The Daily Rot' email includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes
Narcissistic wisdom.
Howdy,
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude toward exercise and nutrition.
I'm asking You to give the middle finger to Your Unrestrictive diet and Half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days...
Have you tried to improve Your health in the past...?
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits - only to start the same rotten cycle again?
You can count your own reps...
Your Complimentary Rotten Health Guide
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What do we do? What do we do? What do we do? Read it, go on.
Speaker 2:We push, we're pushing your health from the pulls of life. Push, pull health.
Speaker 1:Push, pull, health, get to the point that's it. Okay, sorry, that's it. Sleep. Today's episode is all about sleep.
Speaker 2:No, this is it. I should go on holiday more often.
Speaker 1:This is it.
Speaker 2:Excellent. Okay, ben, tell me about sleep then Just before that. Oh, okay, I knew, I knew there was something.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, it is. We're getting on sleep. It's sleep Push for health. I am here, I'm Ben, I'm Fiona, I want you to embrace. That doesn't matter, don't, okay? That's what I'm all about.
Speaker 2:What about my brush and attitude that I bring to the table today? I have one.
Speaker 1:Like you do every day.
Speaker 2:I have one. Good, I've got a really hump in my ass today about doing this.
Speaker 1:Sorry. Okay, we had some good dialogue off camera, we won't go into it. The irony of it is that that would have been pretty useful on camera. Oh, that's the irony. But preamble, you must have the preamble off. Announce. Announce the podcast. Push will help. We've done that. Episode is going to be about sleep.
Speaker 1:We will get to that in one bloody second ten minutes oh, but the preamble is important because at the moment, like it was in the old days when we did the other one, it's just dragging you out of bed or dragging you up the stairs. Right, record microphone, go. It's not realistic. Do you think Joe Rogan just drags his guest in and goes, right, ready, go. They're in the green room for an hour having a chat. Yeah, so they might not be talking about. Oh, we're going to definitely touch upon this. Oh, yeah, so they might not be talking about. Oh, we're going to definitely touch upon this. Or we're going to definitely talk about this. But they're warming up, aren't they? They might be having a drink, having a bite to eat. They don't just drag you out of bed. He doesn't just drag his guest out of bed, put you there and go. Right, good attitude, go. It's not realistic, is it? No, it's not Ben.
Speaker 1:So, in my defence, the preamble. It does make a little bit of sense, but, as I was saying off camera, just to summarize, the world isn't ready for the preamble. We're not famous enough yet. In a year they will be, and it will just be part of the silliness, because they know for the first 10, 15 minutes Ben is going to start going on about his woes. He's going to start going on about how tough the week's been, how hard it is to be an entrepreneur, and they will get it and that will be fine. But if they want to skip that, they know after 15 minutes it's cut dead, Episode sleep or whatever. It's going to be Okay, Don't they? In my defence.
Speaker 2:Well, my preamble was talking about baby reindeer, so that was my preamble beforehand.
Speaker 1:You're not allowed to preamble. I'm preamble, oh okay, okay, fine.
Speaker 2:Can I just say that I think Aldi should sponsor us, because I do have their protein drink here. So Aldi, sponsor us please.
Speaker 1:We go through a lot of those Aldi.
Speaker 2:We go through a site of them.
Speaker 1:And the yoghurts, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Big fan.
Speaker 1:And the iced coffees based on sleep. We've talked about that, so got that out there. Sleep, this is sleep. I've told you what I do. I told you what I'm all about, my ethos well, what's the name of the episode?
Speaker 2:ben, it's not.
Speaker 1:Sleep is it not quite probably something to do with the, the film that we're doing as well. So, uh, you need total recall for your sleep, something along those lines, because the film we also, we do, we do films will be on total recall. Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's still a problem, though, because I'm looking at the camera.
Speaker 2:So we're not going to be able to completely eradicate that.
Speaker 1:I'm here and I'm talking back, unfortunately Sleep. And just before we move on to sleep, I will say I've now edited some of the episodes, most of them rough, a lot of them, but it makes sense, as I've always said from the get-go. And what have you taken? This preamble is no, let me finish the preamble because it's dragging. The irony of it that it's now dragging so let me finish it and let's move on yep finishing off on the preamble uh huh waiting, I'm seeing it, I've seen it, I've edited it, I've gone do episodes.
Speaker 1:It makes sense because there's no preamble before and this guy's just he's trying his best, he's trying stuff, he's dipping the toes he's what? Dipping the toes? Oh so handsy. Lots of hand movements. Yeah, it's, this is. I'm doing this everywhere as well, with clients as well. I can see them looking at me, going like this guy's insane you are right hip. Knees to the back, knees, ass to the back Stop. Stop, I am not sure what is going on over there. Cut that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a good look.
Speaker 1:It makes sense what I've done, so don't be so hard on myself. It makes sense. But what I knew, that I was in trouble, or I knew that things had to change when I spoke to a friend of the show, sean, good guy, great bloke, good guy, you know, sean. I do yes and he left me a voice note. It was like five minutes long, oh Christ yeah five minutes, that's good yeah and he was very polite, nice guy, nice guy.
Speaker 1:Sean and he was. He pretty much said in the voice note you need to sort that shit out yes, ben, you do like I've been trying to.
Speaker 2:Why does it take sean to come and tell you that I've been?
Speaker 1:telling you that for so long I can't believe you said that god thanks sean.
Speaker 2:Maybe I sent sean a message and told him to tell you that right, no, no, no, I think sean's an independent thinker.
Speaker 1:Fiona doesn't need your shit cut that out, no swearing. Big fan of the show, so he said. And the last one. So he said. So I know that if Sean is struggling with the structure of it, if Sean is struggling with me just not getting to the point of what we're meant to be talking about with sleep on this episode, I know that I need to. I need to buck up my ideas.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So there you go, sean, thank you very much. So there you go, sean. Thank you very much. I've seen the errors in my way. I get it. I get what I was doing wrong.
Speaker 2:I get it. So, on that note, let's have total recall of your sleep. Come on, ben, hit me baby.
Speaker 1:Oh god, it's hard because I want to keep going. Oh, I know you do.
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk about sleep.
Speaker 1:I know you do the irony is I've got. I had a really, really night's sleep, same awful, or honestly awful. I feel hung over oh right this isn't for effect, but we're talking about it. Yeah, I need to work on my own habits for sleep so what is sleep?
Speaker 2:ben tell me.
Speaker 1:Well, let me just say this, because this is to do with the episode okay, let me, please, let me just say about the habits everyone's gonna work on the habits sleep hygiene. I need to stop eating as late. I'm eating too bloody late and I'm sure many people are. I'm basically having a buffet before dinner, but before bed, before bed, I should be buffeting.
Speaker 2:But the reason, the reason why you're- doing that, ben, is because we're delaying dinner, because you can't get your ass out into the gym on time.
Speaker 1:that's well entrepreneur it. I'm busy, very busy doing stuff, but yes, I've got to put my money where my mouth is. I am, yeah, something to that effect. It's not good. It is not good, I've got to, and for health reasons as well. I think getting your calories in just hands everywhere, getting your calories in the majority of them before dinner, breakfast, lunch, I think would probably be quite a good habit for a lot of people. Having a smaller dinner would be quite beneficial, not just for their sleep, but it could help. I know some people won't be able to do that based on the type of job they have and family and commitments and all that stuff. But yeah, I need to have a cut-off point.
Speaker 2:Well, I like dinner around half five, six. Now dinner's half six, seven.
Speaker 1:No, dinner's fine, which is ridiculous. Yes, okay, dinner's. We're going to have an early dinner today. Dinner's fine.
Speaker 2:No, we're not. I have to cock it Early-ish. Five o'clock. Yes, that's fine, Half five probably.
Speaker 1:I'm doing this fasted technically, but I ate so late last night. Do you want a sip? No, I'm fine, thank you okay. So that's yeah, not good, and my dinners are quite big as well oh yes and I think for most people their dinner's probably the biggest meal of the day, of course, based on preference or just based on the fact that they've been working and they've just not. They had a quick. I like lunch quickly.
Speaker 2:I think my breakfast is probably my biggest meal.
Speaker 1:I was talking, though, and Right, okay, well, there you go. Good, so, yeah, excellent, so you're doing it right, oh, but what did it say?
Speaker 2:That you should eat breakfast like a king and eat dinner like a prince, yeah, dinner like yes.
Speaker 1:I just love the idea of having lots of food, lots of calories in the night. We talked about this before at the end of the day other people I'm sure relate, but also just based on their lifestyle, it just makes sense to have more calories at the end of the day so how does that impact on your sleep? Then, benjamin, would you say well, the biggest thing is digestion. I think that's for me. If you're buffeting before sleep and then getting into bed some people get away with it.
Speaker 1:Some people can have a. I thought I'd fixed the table and it's still wobbling.
Speaker 2:It's because of your hands, Ben. It's your hands.
Speaker 1:Some people can have a buffet. They can still get to sleep quite easily, but similar to something like caffeine or other stuff, a stimulant before bed or alcohol. They might still get to sleep quite quickly, but their sleep quality will suffer. So you can have a buffet and go. I'm ready for bed pass out, but your sleep quality will probably be pretty bad. You can knock back a few beers straight to bed.
Speaker 2:I want to see what my sleep score is last night.
Speaker 1:Still sleep X amount of hours, but the quality of that sleep might be affected drastically. Let me just check because oh, that is sort of linked in with the whole the whoop and the sleep scores and you know, gamifying sleep is, I think is a slippery slope as well.
Speaker 2:What do you mean gamifying?
Speaker 1:Well, because then you have a score, don't you? And then it's like, oh, I must get as close to 100 as possible. And then or you get into the green or whatever, like what's whoop? It's a score out of 100, isn't it? But also 17 above, or whatever it is. Is you hit the green zone?
Speaker 2:You've done it Well done so my sleep score last night was excellent at 93.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I think that's the highest it's ever been.
Speaker 1:And you said that you had a shit night's sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I felt like I had a shit night's sleep.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:So I was awake for 4% of the night 23 minutes. My REM was two hours, my light sleep was five hours eight minutes and my deep sleep was Right, but what I mean by the gamifying which can be quite damaging?
Speaker 1:I feel for some people is that if they hit the orange or they wake up and go oh, do you know what? Yeah, I feel. Okay, look at the old boot band. Oh 42. Oh, you're dead, oh no. Oh well, I can't go to the gym now then, oh, should I just call in seg. Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're dead.
Speaker 2:I feel so much better after no night. My sleep score is 93.
Speaker 1:Right, there you go. So we're literally seeing it live. I actually had. We are seeing it live in action.
Speaker 2:I had a great sleep last night.
Speaker 1:What the hell am I talking about? Yeah, or whatever, or I was looking at mine, it would say oh.
Speaker 3:Ben, you know you done well there. It's so much better so from a psychological standpoint.
Speaker 1:I could look at that and go no, no, I don't feel like shit. No, no, it's all in my head. I feel great.
Speaker 2:So Ben question for you.
Speaker 1:I'm in the green. Look at it, jonah, because I'm going to rattle off, because we're in and out. Okay, this is a new era from Pushbull.
Speaker 2:God, well, I brought my drink. I was strapped in for like 12 o'clock.
Speaker 1:We had a little bit of waffle at the start because, forgive me, I was just trying to explain why, I waffled so much I'm going to. Oh wow, that was just when I'm on the desktop putting these notes together, it looks okay when, when I put it on the iPad, it's about eight pages, oh dear, okay.
Speaker 2:So we will not be going through eight pages of notes.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start with preparing everyone for sleep. That's what we're going to get into, and then we will then branch off, get this done and then do some tips and then just that's it, move on. End of the episode. Right, okay? So preparing for sleep and we've talked about some of this before in previous episodes adenosine build-up oh, I like the adeno you know adenosine, I do yes friend of mine.
Speaker 2:Can't remember what it is, but good friend is the sleep meter. So it builds up, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:gradually, over the day and then you can block it with caffeine.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, I remember.
Speaker 1:I remember that episode so that's your sleepy meter. Okay, the meter. It just goes up and up, and up and hits. Oh Bang, whatever time.
Speaker 2:Night night.
Speaker 1:In the evening Time for bed Time to start winding down.
Speaker 2:When is nachos? What are you doing? You've put me off my flight.
Speaker 1:I'm just about to get into Circadian. Oh, shut up, it's an, or isn't it? I can't do, or? Oh, oh right, oh god, yeah, so think of melatonin as the I believe it's called the the vampire hormone. It's only released at night and then stops when you wake up, when the sun comes out, that's it. Yeah, I'm not really keen on that happening at 5.
Speaker 2:Terry, not keen on that right.
Speaker 1:It just stops getting secreted in your body. That's about it oh okay sun comes out, it's oh okay, no more melatonin, let's go back. Do we need to? No, I think that's enough. I can start. I can start going into where it's just move on secreted from, but no it's not on me at all, that's for another episode. This is episode one on sleep. This is getting the basics done, and then we will do another episode, maybe in the future, maybe on Inception.
Speaker 3:That's what we're going to do. The film Inception.
Speaker 1:Now, much like the film Inception, it's quite complicated. So that's where we maybe get into the nitty gritty. Excuse me, wind yourself. Excuse me, fiona, just wind yourself in. Alright, how dare you?
Speaker 2:proceed, jesus. What's going on?
Speaker 1:number three tree tree drop in core body temperature okay, okay, christ, what what you, little bitch?
Speaker 2:okay, what do I say In core body temperature? Okay, okay, christ, what what you, little bitch.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do I say about the swearing? Okay, this is affecting the algorithm, I think on YouTube.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:No swearing.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, that's it, move on. Okay, so your?
Speaker 2:body. I don't understand the temperature stuff your body starts to cool itself down. No, I get hot when I get to bed. Cool.
Speaker 1:Cool, cool itself down, cool itself down, cool Cool.
Speaker 2:Cool, don't take advice from me. Getting ready for bed, yep.
Speaker 1:That also then links in with sleeping in a reasonably chilly room.
Speaker 2:We have to window open every night.
Speaker 1:Right, there you go, it's still hot, we have to window open every night. Right there you go, especially when as the sun starts to come out. Hence why I used to get a cold during traveling, because that old air con was on and it was freezing yeah, but it was good for your sleep, for your temperature. I think maybe we had a little bit too cold the temperature. In terms of the actual, the number, I think maybe 65, 65 is about right Play around with that number.
Speaker 2:Degrees, potentially 17, 18.
Speaker 1:Slowing down of heart rate and breathing right. Okay, so that goes in. With the lowering of your core body temperature, heart rate starts to slow. Okay, right. Right down yeah, so that is now. That's preparing you for bed, so that's all the stuff that's happening. Well, there's more A lot of that's happening before bed, so that's preparing you for bed. So that's all the stuff that's happening. Well, there's more A lot of that's happening before bed. So that's preparing you before the next stage, before the other stuff comes in.
Speaker 2:That make sense.
Speaker 1:Fiona.
Speaker 2:That does make sense, Ben.
Speaker 1:You're really irritating. Actually, You're irritating because I'm trying to go through this, I'm trying to keep it concise and you're a little arsehole over there Because you don't want to do you? No, that's the thing. You moan about me waffling on about random things, but you enjoy it don't you. I don't I don't Okay, so I'm trying to go through a list.
Speaker 2:Right, can you just get back to the said list?
Speaker 1:Oh, now you're ready.
Speaker 2:Now you're ready. Now you're ready. I've been refocused, ben yeah.
Speaker 1:God, just have some woes or something. Ben, I'm bored.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't say that at all Ben. I think it is highly interesting.
Speaker 1:Please proceed Right well shut up, then, and listen. I haven't said anything, Naughty you need to put a bag over your head so I can look at your face.
Speaker 3:So we can concentrate on this, because it's important.
Speaker 1:Face the other way.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not Okay.
Speaker 1:During sleep. Yes, right, so this is the stuff that happens during sleep.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Non-REM, non-rem sleep. I'm just going to read it off here, so there's no confusion. The notes are here, I'm just going to read it off. Non-rem sleep can be thought of as the deep dive into sleep, right, mm-hmm? This is the deeper form of sleep as opposed to REM sleep, and we'll get to REM sleep in a minute.
Speaker 2:What is REM?
Speaker 1:You want to tell me I'm going through the stages of sleep, fiona, and then we'll get into the details. Holy hell, what is happening? Okay, okay. Non-rem sleep this is the stage is all about. So non-REM sleep is all about physical restoration, right. Recovery for the body, for your health, okay. Recharging your body, right. So these are some of the stages that are involved. Non-rem sleep Okay, okay, okay. So if you'd just shut up for a second, we'd have got to, wouldn't we? Phases? So stage one for non-REM sleep is the lightest stage of sleep, often considered the transitional period between wakefulness and sleep. It lasts for a few minutes, right?
Speaker 2:Is that like the dozing stage?
Speaker 1:Lasts for a few minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Stage two sleep deepens your heart rate and breathing regulate and your body temperature drops right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Further than what we talked about before. Preparation for sleep Matthew Walker, while we sleep. If you want to get into the science of it, have a look at that.
Speaker 3:Very interesting.
Speaker 1:There's a lot to it. There's a lot to it. He just also did a new six-part mini-series with Huberman. I had something I wanted to say about Huberman. Maybe we'll say it at the end. I'm not going to get into that now. Very, interesting. Again, very detailed, very interesting. But yeah, Matthew's got this. I'm not sure if he's having a midlife crisis, but he's how he's got a real wacky haircut at the moment. Now I want to talk about haircuts, but he's got matthew matthew walker all right why we sleep.
Speaker 1:Have you read why we sleep? Yes, I have when we're traveling have you right, yes, bad hacker, but it's um, it's almost like you can't quite take what he's saying seriously. His haircut's that bad. It's a bad haircut. I'm not too sure what's happened there. Matthew, very knowledgeable bloke, but you need to look at that hair. You need to see it to understand. Maybe just get up quickly while I'm going. Have a look at it quickly. Don't make any noise because I'm in the flow here.
Speaker 2:Okay, but it's not a good haircut. What's his name? Matthew, what?
Speaker 1:Matthew Walker, are you listening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I forget.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, okay, so that's okay. So that's that's non-REM sleep. That, no, no, god, no, no, no, no, on it's, yeah, it's, look, look, if it works for matt, good for him. You know he's a well well groomed gentleman, but it's just like I'm not sure. Maybe she's going for a phase right. So that's non-rem sleep. That's done. The basics of it are done does that make sense? Yes, it did right rem sleep the dream stage I was to ask that as a question Phases of REM sleep.
Speaker 1:Rem sleep typically begins about 90 minutes after falling asleep and recurs several times throughout the night, lasting longer with each cycle Functions REM sleep is crucial for cognitive functions such as memory, problem solving and learning. This stage is often associated with intense dreaming as the brain processes emotions and memories that's very interesting right, I never knew that rem sleep was that important.
Speaker 2:But can I just say on your little thing that you were saying there, that is so true. Look at that the phases, and they're getting longer yeah and it's about well, I don't know how long it is. Went to bed about 10 o'clock, so it's my first REM was about 12ish last night yeah, oh, you see he's taking an interest all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:Yes, well done Ben. Yeah, proceed okay, if we can just yep calm down close down again yep, yep, calm down close down again. Yep, got that bit. During shut up shut up. Characteristics of REM sleep. During REM sleep, the brain is very active, sometimes reaching levels of activity similar to when you are awake. Despite this brain activity, the body experiences a temporary paralysis of the most voluntary muscles.
Speaker 2:Yes, have you ever had that A condition known as rem atonia.
Speaker 1:Oh, this prevents you from acting out your dreams. Dreaming Rem is known for vivid dreams. During the heightened brain activity, the eyes move rapidly behind closed lids, hence the name rapid eye movement yes, yes question on that.
Speaker 2:Is that why people have this so-called sleep paralysis? Have you ever had that before?
Speaker 1:I don't believe so. Maybe once or twice.
Speaker 2:Horrific. I had it once in Claxton and literally it was like an outer body experience. It was like I was looking down on my body and I literally could not move. But everything I was doing in my head I was trying to move but I actually physically couldn't. It was like something was holding you down, like this pressure on you. It was so weird, so weird. So I'm assuming that means that, like your body's still, you've woken up, but that hasn't registered with your body, I'm assuming because you're in such a heightened stage. Would that be the reasons for it?
Speaker 1:Well, that's probably something that we'd have to get into more and do a deep dive on the next episode. Okay, so this episode was just about getting the basics out, but not too much and then oh, I'm sorry, please, please.
Speaker 2:It was like you're being tormented or tortured or something. It was just it was. It was very, very odd, very odd. It's quite scary, like not being able to move, but knowing that like you're fully there but you just, you just don't have any capability to move, and like I remember thinking to myself I have to wake Ben up, but I couldn't speak, I couldn't do anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Don't wake me up, but I was.
Speaker 2:I was worried, I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1:And the next thing I just could move after a few after about a minute or two I could just move right, yes, very. How often have you suffered from this? That's only happened once in my life. That's interesting. That was in claxton. Hmm right, I wonder what brought that on don't know, probably you snoring beside me oh, all right, yes, please continue.
Speaker 3:Ben highly interesting on beside me.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, Please continue, Ben. Highly interesting.
Speaker 1:Yes, I might go back to that. Actually there was some more stuff there. I might make that a little bit clearer, I think that was reasonably clear. I think that was good. Yeah, but it's just reading from the. It's a bit dull, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But you don't want to make it complex.
Speaker 1:Yes, you want to make sure that you're reading what you're. You're not just on the spot going. Well, I think REM sleep for me means this it's like no, I just read it off, but it's just a bit of.
Speaker 2:Well, they are your notes, so you're reading what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know but these are notes from books and studies, so they're not notes that I've then gone. Oh, how can I put this into my own words? It in your own words? But REM sleep, rem sleep and non-REM sleep, it's science.
Speaker 2:Science.
Speaker 1:Let's move on to the next phase, potentially- so well, I can summarise both of them in different ways, but I like this. I think this was it. Oh yeah, this is from why we Sleep, matthew Walker. So you can think of non-REM sleep, so that clears out old memories, mental trash. That clears out old memories, mental trash and moves information into long-term storage. I remember that REM strengthens the valuable information that remains and it forges creative, novel connections between them.
Speaker 2:Should we have more REM sleep at?
Speaker 1:night. There's a lot I think there's probably a lot that goes into talking about how your brain and during non-REM sleep, takes that information and sort of knows what you would benefit from and what you wouldn't. So when they could take all this information and go oh yeah, you can put that in the bin, he doesn't need that. Oh yeah, that's pretty useful. Yeah, they put that into the REM bit, yeah yeah. Yeah, he'd enjoy that.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, that's probably a whole. That's probably a whole episode. Hence why matthew walker and huberman did six bloody episodes of three hours each. Oh yeah 18 hours plenty. Each episode was something slightly different about sleep. This is too much, this is ridiculous. So me trying to do this in an hour is absolutely obscene so take one it was just trying to get the basics down rem, non-rem and then it was like, right, okay, let's start talking about some actionable steps people can take.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're not talking about light and deep sleep, because I got light and deep sleep on my what do you know about light and deep?
Speaker 1:what do you mean?
Speaker 2:absolutely not, and it just says on my app it tells me that I slept.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what we've, we've just talked about, haven't we, with non-REM and REM. They're the two main stages aren't they? They're the two that you go through during the night while sleeping.
Speaker 2:Oh Well, I've got light sleep here, so REM sleep is lighter, isn't it?
Speaker 1:You associate that with a lighter form of sleeping.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, Non-REM is yes, and you have that deeper stage, don't you during? Number eight. Oh, okay, fine, so I mustn't have had much trash to try out last night because I only had 55 minutes.
Speaker 1:You're not listening. Fiona are you? Are you listening?
Speaker 2:I am. I just get confused.
Speaker 1:Oh God, there's just so much, so much. Now, what else do we need from that? Before we move on, just start talking about actionable steps. What else do we need?
Speaker 2:you twitch a lot in your sleep. Why do we twitch? Is that non-RAM then?
Speaker 3:because, do you know. Yes, yes, rem sleep is yes as your doors, as your doors are not open. A whole new episode. A whole new episode about why?
Speaker 1:why we have dreams, why we twitch, why we do this, why we sleepwalk bloody hell. Why is that? That's, that's a whole different thing, god you don't sleepwalk, bloody hell.
Speaker 2:Why is that? That's a whole different thing, god.
Speaker 1:You don't sleepwalk, thankfully. All right, okay, oh God, god, we might have to break this into two parts. To be honest, done the preparing for sleep.
Speaker 2:That's good. You spoke briefly about the song coming out and the melatonin stuff Did preparing for sleep?
Speaker 1:Yes, did during sleep. That's when we got into rem and non-rem, right, okay, that's fine waking up. So what happens when you wake up?
Speaker 2:you open your eyes, your heart rate increases cortisol oh yes yes, bad boy that's.
Speaker 1:That starts ramping up during the morning. Cortisol gets quite a bad rap. But, similar to something like insulin, you sort you sort of need both of them. Well, you don't, you don't sort of need them, you, you do. You have to have them both in large doses for various different reasons. So you know, just take it easy on cortisol. But because it's, because it's it's, it's revolves around stress, because my cortisol levels are through the roof. I'm so stressed. Okay, but without cortisol rising you'd never get up, you'd just be in bed forever.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't be asleep forever, though, would you, or would you? Would you?
Speaker 1:Well, no, that's obviously a bit silly, you'd be asleep, but I mean you need that. You need that rising cortisol in the morning.
Speaker 2:Get your ass out of bed. You're going to really struggle.
Speaker 1:Even if it is already a struggle, you're going to really struggle to get out of bed, okay, so right In the morning, your brain sends a signal to release cortisol, which acts like your natural alarm clock. That's pretty much. It Helps you get up and start the day, increasing body temperature. Increasing heart rate Cortisol yeah, increasing, butt.
Speaker 2:Oh, you just said that.
Speaker 1:Which will help with yes, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's the complete opposite of going to sleep.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yes, excellent. So in the evening you might have a hot shower before bed. Because you have the hot shower, you come out of the hotness or the sauna or whatever, open the capillaries and then the coolness of the room that you go then sleep in will then have the effects on the body, because you've warmed yourself up and then you're going to be cooled down straight after. Oh, hang on, hang on, please. The opposite. In the morning We'll get into this now.
Speaker 1:This whole cold plunging stuff Doing the opposite. So you're getting the cortisol going, adrenaline, all this stuff, and then you dump yourself into a cold shower or you go cold plunging and then you dump yourself into a cold shower or cold plunging. That makes you alert. I'm ready. I'm ready for the day Opposite, isn't it? It's opposite. So, you want to have that in the morning to wake yourself up. You wouldn't want to start cold plunging and do all that shit, or cortisol levels going through the roof just before you're about to get into bed.
Speaker 2:Big problem. I'm not having a cold shower ever. So I'd say having a bath is better, but going to bed because it's hotter.
Speaker 1:A hot bath. Yeah yeah, yeah, same effect. Talking about cortisol Stress, saying it Cortisol, right, what's, we're done, what's going on? Cortisol, no need to say it properly Because I'm, because, because there's so many notes, I'm still trying to rush through them. Yes, don't.
Speaker 3:Take your time. You're doing excellent today. Speak properly. Speak properly Cortisol Excellent job.
Speaker 1:If you're ramping up your cortisol at nine o'clock before bed, big problem. That's why you have to shut off. I've got to shut off. The earlier you shut off, the better. But if you're a little bit stressed not even stressed, you're just working, working, doing stuff, you're trying to use your brain. It's not good If you're getting stressed. If you're trying to do emails, your stress levels might not be through the roof, but you're still in work mode, aren't you? It's not good. And then going right, okay, yeah, 9pm, 10pm, shut the laptop right. Okay, now let's go to bed again. You might some people, if you're knackered, you can still fall straight to sleep, but chances are sleep quality again will be affected, especially if you've done something stressful. If you're, if you're stressed and and most stuff at work, if you're doing work, you can't. There's a little bit of stress that attached to it.
Speaker 1:You're just at work well, yeah, I don't think you can fully remove yourself, even if you love your job. Even if I'm there I'm there at 9pm writing programmes for the push for half clients it's like, oh, bloody hell, time's getting. I'm getting stressed because I'm like, oh, I need to get this done. I need to go to bed. My book's waiting. So, even if I'm doing something that I enjoy, I'm still getting stressed, for me personally, because this is getting late, late. I need to go to bed but now we get.
Speaker 1:We get stretched when stretched we get stressed, when we don't get get into bed by a certain time, so that doesn't help the cortisol levels either right, yeah, and that links in with if you're in bed and you can't go to sleep, you get stressed, which makes it worse that's what.
Speaker 2:That's what the question I was going to ask. So, like people say well, I know sometimes when you're, when you're, when you're trying to get sleep and your brain won't shut off, is that because of cortisol levels?
Speaker 1:If you're.
Speaker 2:Why is that yeah?
Speaker 1:if you're stressed, if you're doing Just in general, if you're working your whole life or whatever, and then you get into bed and you're stressed, and then you get more stress because you can't sleep. Oh, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I have a thing where when I go to bed, I'm tired, I want to go to sleep, I'm ready to go to sleep, but then I start thinking of stuff, literally think of the most randomest things that I need to do.
Speaker 1:I've got something very interesting actually, Fiona, that we're going to get to.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 3:Let me finish off on cortisol.
Speaker 2:No problem, darling.
Speaker 1:Let me finish off on this, okay, so, going back to your circadian rhythm, we're going to get into everything about it.
Speaker 3:We've talked about melatonin.
Speaker 1:We've talked about all that stuff, right, okay? Okay, let's move on. So there's more. We can get into the nitty-gritty about hormones as such not on this one, but we're laying them out, have a brief overview of what they do, and then let's move on. Let's let's talk about other stuff that's linked in to sleep, okay, and things that might help people or understand, get people a better understanding of what they can do Sleep, improve their sleep hygiene, preparing for bed and getting up in the morning.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm struggling to get up in the mornings, so you might be able to give me some tippies.
Speaker 1:Chronotypes. Have you heard of this? People have different chronotypes when it comes to sleep.
Speaker 1:So the whole morning person and evening oh yeah you sort of you know, when people say that you think, oh, I'm a morning person, yeah, people go, I'm not a morning person, but in their defense that could actually be true. Morning larks and night owls, and I believe there's the maybe there's six different chronotypes based on being you know a really early riser, which is X amount of people, and then you've got your, where most people sit, maybe from you know six, six, 37. And then you got after that and then you've got ones that are late morning and then you've got and then it goes into the evening.
Speaker 1:So people would go to sleep at nine. Nine o'clock. People go to sleep close nine, nine o'clock. People would go to sleep close to midnight so there's something about this, isn't there?
Speaker 2:because obviously teenagers they're, they sleep in late, but they're night owls. But then, as because you probably did as well, you probably slept until midday when you were a teenager yes what?
Speaker 1:Ben for personal health? Yeah, yes, probably. Come on, ben, you're human. You're human. Oh, probably, yeah. Oh yeah, it was crazy, you're going to bed at like 2, 3am and you can't get into a routine now.
Speaker 2:Look at you. You're up at like what quarter past 5 every morning 5 yeah 5. Oh, okay, is that the time you woke me up at this morning? I remember talking to you, but I actually have?
Speaker 1:no, I don't know, I don't think so, why would I have woken you up at five?
Speaker 2:no, you got out of bed and we said something to each other.
Speaker 3:Right, it's game day oh right, that's what I said, maybe it's game day, fiona be prepared.
Speaker 2:20 minutes, let's go yeah, anyways, go on night owls. Oh, I'm getting a bit stressed now because there's just so many notes lots of interesting notes, but just a lot.
Speaker 1:We have to probably break this up so we we're definitely more than lax, the two of us so there has been almost a shift with people's behavior, not for everyone, but a lot of people will work later or they would get up work later into the night and beforehand. Well, let's say before, previously that used to be almost like a badge of honor for a lot of people hard workers, where they would go oh, I've, I've, I was in the office at 1am updating those spreadsheets, all right, okay, but it was almost like this is what you have to do To get ahead in life and to be a success. If you're an entrepreneur or you own a business whatever, or you just want to just get up the ranks, get a promotion, you've got to be in the office till late. Everyone's gone home. Oh, steve, are you coming? No, no, I've got to do these spreadsheets.
Speaker 1:Doesn't see, his family gets back at two in the morning, sleeps in the office, and you knew that was unhealthy, but it was almost like oh god, you know what's good for you. You'll get somewhere, you'll reach the top with that work ethic. Well done. Now we flipped it, which in some ways is good, because, yes, that that's pretty unhealthy. Within reason, though, if you look at these chronotypes some people, that's just how they work. They are better in the evening. It's like people who say about you know, trying to be creative and writing, for me it's the morning, has to be the morning, but some people will. Nine o'clock hits in the evening. Oh, now I'm ready to write, oh, now I'm really creative. What?
Speaker 1:yeah but, based on their chronotype, potentially makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:How do you find out what chronotype you are?
Speaker 1:You can take various tests online to gauge. You know, I'm sure, like energy levels, how do you feel at this time? But now we're lording the morning routine. It's got out of hand, because waking up early, I think, is a good habit for most people and and you have to wait most we have to wake up early anyway. If they have to go to work, they have to get out.
Speaker 1:They've got kids and they've got other stuff to do and I think waking up early is, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, but you've now got this extra shit on top. So not only do you need to wake up early, you need to then maybe go out for a walk again. Good, good habit get sunlight in your eyes. You know like human keeps banging on about. Get that old sunlight in your eyes because that helps. That's why the um there's that there's been this rise in this, the you know the sunrise alarm clocks, which I'm a bit like yeah yeah, I'm seeing it, I do.
Speaker 1:I do get it to a point where you're, the light will then naturally come into the room and then you will then, instead of just the causal ramping up and you waking up when your alarm goes off that sun, the the alarm clock will then just naturally just start bringing light into the room. So then you will then start to shift over a bit quicker potentially from melatonin to stopping being secreted, and then you then waking up, and it's a bit more natural, even if you're waking up, naturally you're still kind of getting jolted. Well, yeah, because it's a panic, isn't it? Because you're just waking up and it's a bit more natural, even if you're waking up, naturally you're still kind of getting jolted from sleep.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because it's a panic, isn't it? Because you're just like shit. What time is it?
Speaker 1:With or without an alarm clock. You probably can't avoid that. Maybe with getting one of these sunrise alarm clocks yeah, maybe we'll take the plunge and get on.
Speaker 2:Well, it'd be handy for wintertime a little bit opened. Yes, because it lets it come in.
Speaker 1:Yes, maybe there's some more. Maybe it will work better during the winter months. Right morning routine. Yep, good, good habits, great. But more and more things are getting added to the pile of morning routine. So you get your morning walking, you start meditating, you start journaling. You've got to get some grounding in. You know grounding, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Grounding techniques.
Speaker 1:Oh, you've got to ground, you must ground and then cold plunge, get in a cold shower, get in the sea or buy one of these cold plunges and you've got to get in there for 10 minutes. So you've got to do all this stuff, which is hard. All this that's really difficult, but it sets you up for a good day. You get all the hard stuff done first, so you can, but then you're exhausted by five o'clock. No, no, you can win the morning, win the day. Which good advice. Good advice, but like it, like everything. Well, I only work with some people well, I'm struggling.
Speaker 2:I'm struggling in the mornings now because, well, I got out of routine, didn't I? But I'm struggling to get up for my walk. I'm still awake at like half five, quarter to six waiting for my tea, and then it's like I'm meant to be starting work at what seven-ish quarter to seven I'm meant to start work at, and then I have to shower and I just don't have time to do my half an hour walk, because I want that morning to kind of just wake up, have a cup of tea and then work.
Speaker 1:So you're not meditating, you're not journaling, you're not grounding?
Speaker 2:No, I don't need to ground myself.
Speaker 1:Oh dear, oh dear.
Speaker 2:But now I find that I was doing it. I don't know how I made time for it before, because I was still getting up at the same time. So I don't know how to get back into that routine, because when I wake up I'm just like, yeah, grand, I'm awake. I'm not like doors and back to sleep or anything, I'm awake why do I sit like this?
Speaker 1:it's not good, sure.
Speaker 2:That's terrible for your back and I sit like this and I always feel like I feel I look really stiff and unnatural in this four yes, well, that's, I don't know, fiona you tell me what?
Speaker 1:do you need to do? I don't know if you feel like going for a 15 minute walk, we'll set you up for a good day, and it's it's more doable now. Now we're entering summer, it's pretty good, it's weird, isn't it?
Speaker 2:because I was doing it and then, as soon as my hours changed at work, I was still doing it, but I was like, oh, I'll just go for a 15 minute walk. And I was doing, and now I'm just like I don't have the time to do it but I'm waking up earlier as well.
Speaker 1:It's, it's so right, you need to shift. It's just motivation. So you need to get up and go for a walk straight away and then come back and have your tea yes, but I like to have my tea in bed okay, you need to, you need to get out of that. That probably links in with the whole bed thing as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, this yeah maybe if you just brought me my tea at half five.
Speaker 3:This is this is a good point.
Speaker 1:This is a good point yes, so bed I love bed well some sleep hygiene sleep helps you help. The hygiene bed should only be used for two things oh, what do you do? What do you think fiona and and this is a good point, because what do you use bed for?
Speaker 2:sleep and tea. Sometimes I occasionally bring the laptop in right, so so so for you so for you.
Speaker 1:You're using bed for a lot of things that you shouldn't be, so you're having tea in bed not ideal I had a yogurt in bed yesterday yeah, eating in bed I never do that. I never do that I used to work from bed all the time yeah, but I don't do that now. I used to do a full day in bed no, I did not.
Speaker 1:I used to half a day in bed oh, that's right then, not in bed, on the bed on the bed okay, still terrible dressed, so so bed, so your bed for everyone comfortable chair right but for everyone bed should be sleeping and I'm intrigued, you know.
Speaker 2:you tell me. If I'm intrigued, you tell me. I don't know, you tell me.
Speaker 1:You know. You know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm referring to.
Speaker 3:But this is a kids show.
Speaker 1:Well, it's meant to be for children as well.
Speaker 2:You know I love kids For other recreational activities, but that doesn't have to necessarily Okay, I'm not going to get into that.
Speaker 1:That's two things okay so you, but you're using beds for several things. Not good, not good. So go for your walk, have your tea.
Speaker 3:Have your tea outside why don't you have your tea?
Speaker 1:outside.
Speaker 2:Have your tea in the lounge why don't you just bring me my cup of tea at half five to go forward, and I'll be out ready to go six.
Speaker 1:No, this is it. This, this. This is good, this is good. Take all the science stuff away, take all the ram and non-ram. You need to sort yourself out, you need to get out of bed and have your tea somewhere else and you need to go for a walk oh, but I just love my team, and then you'll stop whinging about the day. You haven't got. You haven't got ground. You haven't got meditate. You've got journal. You haven't got. How do you cold plunge? You need to get your fat ass out of bed hot shower.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, you need to get your fat ass out of bed, go for a walk and have your tea in a different room. God forbid, make your own tea as well. No, god, no, Add that in as well. No.
Speaker 2:So what I'm going to do going forward is I'm going to get up, get dressed, go for a walk.
Speaker 1:You like the hands as well. Do you Go for a walk? What a planned dance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for a walk.
Speaker 1:Bullseye.
Speaker 2:What? Go for a walk, come back, have a shower, get my jammies on, get back into bed and have my tea. Is that okay?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, bed's done. We've talked about the bed. Two things, two things, that's it.
Speaker 2:Whatever you say, just two things, yeah, but we were watching Kin in bed last night.
Speaker 1:Terrible, awful. That's not happening again. Well, a terrible night's sleep, so eating too late.
Speaker 2:According to my sleep score, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I had a yogurt right before bed.
Speaker 1:I had a massive meal way too late and then watching TV in bed.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, oh, absolutely not Dear deary me, Okay. Not good, well, something very positive out of this show. So Ben's going to come in at 5.30 with my cup of tea going forward.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, no. You're going out for a walk first, and then you're coming back, and then you're going to make your own tea and then you're going to sit in the lounge or sit at the dining table.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Or sit outside. Well, I could potentially sit outside.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course you can. Of course you can. I just love that full of clothing, so like pajamas, fluffy.
Speaker 1:Yes, right. So there you go. There you go, right, and I'm sure maybe other people are in a similar position. What are you using your bed for? Right now, there's only two things. Oh, there is. We're going to have to split this up, Fiona. So, we're going to have to do a six par like Matthew Walker and Huberman. So we're going to have to do a six par like Matthew Walker and Huberman. This is absolutely ridiculous, because this is very interesting.
Speaker 2:So you want to get it right? Well then, just say, to be continued, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to have to probably come back and do Total Recall. Okay, so where were we morning routine?
Speaker 2:Bed two things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:My routine.
Speaker 1:Your routine needs work. Yep, Do we need to talk about sleep cycles? So you've got mono biphasic.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and triphasic, no, no, what's the one that?
Speaker 1:babies do Turds.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Polyphasic.
Speaker 2:Oh, polyphasic yeah.
Speaker 1:So they have like several. So you've got mono, which is just One. Yeah, right, so most of us, Biphasic is two. Which goes into the uh, the siesta, doesn't it? They have the two separate, so they have the morning one and they have the however long. What one till four? One till five, which is probably actually, yeah, that's pretty pretty good actually, if you could do that what have a nap? Again nap, nap. That's a whole new thing on that. That's a whole other episode on napping.
Speaker 2:I don't understand napping, true, today. I just don't. Well, I think it. I don't understand napping, trudy, I just don't get it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it makes a lot of sense with the siestas.
Speaker 2:I don't get it.
Speaker 1:Because pretty much everyone. It will differ depending on when it kicks in, but basically anywhere between one and three. Maybe is when you have that lull normally after lunch. So you have lunch and then you have that lull, normally after lunch. So you have lunch and then you have that lull everyone everyone has a lull of some kind.
Speaker 3:They might have it lunch.
Speaker 1:There you go, but you will have a lull. You will, you'll have a lull of sauce. You haven't got to necessarily eat lunch, lunch. I think lunch can make it worse if you have a big, big carby, rich lunch. I think it can.
Speaker 2:It can then bring it on, bring out, bring on the lull quicker well, you see, I have coffee up until 3pm, so that probably helps with the lull stuff we need to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1:No, but you will. Your energy levels will dip in the afternoon a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll probably do after work, but not when I'm at work. But then, don't forget, I finish work at half two most times.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, well, there we go then.
Speaker 2:I start at quarter to seven.
Speaker 1:everyone, okay, yeah so you maybe don't experience the lull as much as others, based on the fact that you finish work and then I'm out walking. Yeah, so you're a part-timer.
Speaker 2:I'm not, I'm full-time.
Speaker 1:Part-time.
Speaker 2:Full-time, Half two part-time.
Speaker 1:Seven to three is still the same amount of it, but you have coffee, so that blocks the older dinner scene. And then you finish work because you're a part-timer and then you go for your walk, so maybe you're getting away with it a little bit. For most, they will have that low, which is potentially made worse by having a lunch, and that could be any lunch. But yeah, the more carbs you, the more carbs you're ramming my lunch you have a big bowl of oats at lunch.
Speaker 2:You're probably going to be good, good for you my lunch is aldi protein iced coffee 15 grams of protein.
Speaker 1:Right well, the protein's good, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe get some more fats in potentially. Oh, but protein's good, yeah, different phases. That's why babies are unbearable because they're, they're, is it? I think it is polyphagic yeah, is polyphasic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember reading about that.
Speaker 1:They have what? Two hour doses of sleep.
Speaker 3:If you're lucky, it's despicable, despicable things.
Speaker 2:Sleep when the baby sleeps. That's great for someone who doesn't nap.
Speaker 1:Right. So actually, for all the new parents out there, one of my clients is going to be by the time this comes out. He'll be a parent.
Speaker 2:He'll be sleep deprived.
Speaker 1:Maybe start looking at changing your phases of sleep, because you have to. So don't try and soldier on. Try and get into that routine of trying to nap, because I think that's going to be for the first. I don't know how long do these things exist for?
Speaker 2:18 years.
Speaker 1:No, like the baby stuff. What are they babies? Well, it depends on the kid. A couple of years.
Speaker 2:Well it depends, Bloody hell. So the more the older they get, the more they eat, the more they sleep. I by six months, it could be sleeping through the night. If you're lucky, interesting, it just depends.
Speaker 1:I get that. A lot of people have babies and they try to get them out of the way. So they have one and then they wait a couple of years, right, but imagine that. So you've just got over that, oh God. It's finally become something that's a bit less unbearable. Honey, guess what? Sorry.
Speaker 2:Baby number two. Sorry, you want to do this again. We're number two years. I guess we went to that bed for recreational activities Just horrendous. I was going to say something there.
Speaker 1:So new parents maybe start looking at these naps.
Speaker 2:They say that what people should do now is to avoid. Instead of having two people sleep deprived, they should take it in turns and sleep in a separate room. So one night I sleep in the other room, I look after baby. Then the following night you sleep in the other room. You look after baby.
Speaker 1:Sorry, why are we talking about us? You mean other people.
Speaker 2:Other people? Yeah, but when this happens, Okay yeah. No, I like yeah, so so you you yeah, so you do it for the first two years and then I'll. I'll take over for the second one when the second one comes yeah, good idea.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you take the shift, the first two year shift, and then I'll be like right tag oh, it's off to school.
Speaker 2:Oh great, see ya. They don't go to school until four, ben, and between two and four they Nightmares with the shits. I don't know the babies With vomishing Nightmares. Calls Not for me.
Speaker 1:Not, for me Not for me Push well. We talked about this on our previous episode, push. Well, this is my baby.
Speaker 2:Pushing your health from the poles of life. Having a baby wouldn't be pushing your health. I'd say that's more of a pole. Cut that out. Oh yeah, cut that out.
Speaker 1:oh yeah, sorry no, no, no, we'll keep it in. We'll keep that in. I think it's just nonsense absolute nonsense okay, oh, bloody hell, there's a lot there is a lot to this.
Speaker 2:So how many hours should I have a night? You didn't answer that question how many? What hours should I have?
Speaker 1:oh, should I have a bit of that?
Speaker 2:yeah go on treat yourself you tell me, Fiona. Well, let's say between seven to eight, isn't it?
Speaker 1:If you can, yeah, ideally, but get into bed as well. That's a big thing is getting into it. How long are you spending in bed? I love getting into bed. Right, how long are?
Speaker 2:you spending in bed? I don't mean how long I'm spending half an hour in bed before I go to sleep, because I do a bit of reading.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, I mean sleeping between seven to nine hours, great, but you need to be in bed for if you want to sleep, if you want to sleep, say, eight hours, you need to be in bed for at least nine. But you need to add on additional time actually in bed so to relax, to maybe read.
Speaker 2:And recreational activities.
Speaker 1:There's that latency between being in bed and actually going to sleep. It's not necessarily a good thing if you go into bed and you instantly pass out.
Speaker 2:Who does that? No, but, no, but no, I mean yeah but that's not a good thing.
Speaker 1:That probably means that, yes, you're exhausted, but so that means that your health's probably not in a great spot If you're getting into bed and you instantly pass out Out of the light yeah. You think, oh great, that's what you want.
Speaker 2:Again, I used to do that after nights Sleep quality might be affected.
Speaker 1:If that's what's happening to you and I'm sure you'll probably know, you'll know based on your lifestyle and work and whatever else.
Speaker 2:If you're having to literally go into bed and just literally pass out Makes sense, doesn't?
Speaker 1:it Because you're exhausted.
Speaker 2:Used to be more so. I was speaking to Russ about this yesterday. Just like literally staying awake all day and then, when you go to bed at like seven o'clock, just like literally close your eyes and you're gone. You're a goner, oh gosh, because you've been awake. You've been awake for over 24 hours and your sleep hasn't been great for the past three days because you're in nights.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, touch upon that very quickly. There is, there's been, I think there's been numerous studies, but I think matthew walker talks about it in the book when it comes to doctors and nurses and people in health care what shift workers? 90 over 19 hours of being awake. I think it's about 19 hours plus of being awake. Your cognitive impairment will be in line with being legally drunk.
Speaker 2:That's why they have a limit on how many hours doctors and surgeons can do now. Previously before, like back in yonder days, they said, oh, you could be on call for like 72 hours, and if? You're on call and something's going on, which nine times out of 10 in a hospital probably something is going on. You're awake for those 72 hours and then you might have one day off and be in again on your normal shifts.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming you're napping. You know there's naps to some degree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can do, but it depends If you've got cardiac arrest left right and centre, you're not napping in between them, unfortunately. But now they have a limit on I think it's 24 hours is max they can do.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it's still too much then.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah because you could do it like my friend Tara, for example. She could go in and do a 9 to 5. And then, from 5 o'clock onwards until 9am the next day, she is on call and she is meant to be on work between 9 to 5 that day. Now sometimes she's lucky, she may not be able to, she may not get a call, but other times she may get a call in, like she wouldn't be there the whole time usually but for doctors and that it could be completely different. And then once you, once you go to, once you go into the hospital and you see somebody, and then someone oh, would you mind just having a look at this patient and at this patient, and then that's how it lentens and draws out yes so that's, that's longer than 24 hours.
Speaker 2:So she's working nine o'clock to five o'clock, and then she's on call until five o'clock. Oh, it's 24 hours, isn't it?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, I think I think the yeah, like I said, I think I think it's about 19 hours.
Speaker 2:19 hours plus is when, yeah, you're, you're delirious remember I used to come back and say I used to be delirious from work and sometimes I wouldn't be able to string a sentence together nine times out of ten. I can't anyways, but I used to be so delirious from working. That's exactly how I would describe it I feel delirious.
Speaker 1:There must be something in One, of course, if you drive home like not good because, like we said, drunk and all that but the amount of the, I wonder how many nurses or doctors or anyone in healthcare, how many people have returned back to the hospital as a patient Because they've crashed their car, they've been in an accident?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you see a lot of people who are driving home. They'll be on the Red Bull, They'll be on the Monster at that time and then they're meant to be on home sleep.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or coffee.
Speaker 1:But I think, yeah, I know, but that's not going to. That's not going to. If you're drunk, you're drunk. I remember doing handover, if that's what's happening.
Speaker 2:I remember doing handover because I never used to sleep on my, so I used to get up at my normal time, 7am say, for example, and then work that night and then the following morning giving a handover. It was the only morning I had to do it. I used to have to make myself have a cup of tea because I used to have to hand over the whole ward of patients and I used to be stumbling over my words because I literally did not have the function to actually do handover properly without caffeine. I had to do it Crazy.
Speaker 1:I'm not very comfortable today. No, you don't look very comfortable, darling. I'm shifting in my you are. You're a bit movey today, my shoulders are honestly quite annoying for the viewers to see me shifting around.
Speaker 2:I don't really move much.
Speaker 1:I don't think I move normally. Oh yes, but oh yes, caffeine. We're not getting into caffeine, no. We're not getting into caffeine today We've talked about caffeine, the supplement episode and the shift workers. We talked about shift workers. We did so. Caffeine, yeah yeah, half-life of caffeine, that's the biggest kick in the nuts.
Speaker 3:What is the?
Speaker 1:half-life. So if you're having, I don't know, like a strong coffee, 120 milligrams or whatever.
Speaker 1:Oh, you told me that in the last episode the half-life of that will be, at least for most people. Again last episode, the half-life of that will be, at least for most people. Again it's different. There's there's um, I've talked about it there's a as something in the liver, an enzyme in the liver, which will dictate genetics, will dictate how quickly you can metabolize the caffeine in your body. But on average it's about five hours. So caffeine has a half-life of, say, say, anywhere between three to seven hours, say five, say five hours. Fuck. So if you're having sorry five hours, yeah.
Speaker 1:So if so, of course, the later you have caffeine, the more, the more trouble you could be in. So if you haven't having a coffee, a strong coffee, at two o'clock, three o'clock, that means that by eight o'clock, nine o'clock, you've still got half of that, so 120.
Speaker 2:So you've got still got 60 milligrams of caffeine running through the body well, I have a weak coffee usually and I'd usually have my last one around 2, depending on my work situation, but you'll still have X amount of caffeine running through your blood before bed, so not the best. Well, I'm not going to change that habit sorry, no, it's a midday midday for most.
Speaker 1:Just try and aim a midday Midday for most. Try and aim for midday Anytime after lunch. The risk is there to your sleep might take a hit. Oh God, almighty, so much, fiona, so much.
Speaker 2:Yes, but we'll just then separate into another coffee, into another episode. I need a coffee.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that means we'd have to do two weeks in a row of sleep. I know it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I've actually quite enjoyed this episode. Other than you shouting at me, I've actually enjoyed this episode. Two weeks of sleep, though. It's very interesting, Ben.
Speaker 1:Jeez Louise.
Speaker 2:I want to know more about napping, twitching, sleep paralysis, all of that. I want to know more.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not getting into that. That's for future episodes. I've still got notes for this episode that I've not gone anywhere near.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well then we need to do it too. No, why am?
Speaker 1:I getting into that. That's a year from now. We're complicate the film, very complicated subjects you just talked about to do them justice. To do them justice because, realistically, if you want them done, if you want justice done on them, go and watch the six part episode with six part series with Huberman and Walker 18 hours in total it's a lot, like it's a lot, there's just a lot. Maybe I'll listen to that. Probably didn't help me actually listening to those Very interesting but so much information. I should have actually probably listened to those afterwards.
Speaker 2:Did you listen? How did you listen to 18 Hours of Podcasts?
Speaker 1:Well, no, I've listened, I think the last one, and the last one's about dreams.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like dreams If they're good.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's right. Why do we dream?
Speaker 2:again Is that RAM? Yeah, that is.
Speaker 1:Let's rattle off a few different things. We're not really have we actually given.
Speaker 2:We're doing that now, ben, we've not talked about the sleep hygiene have we? Yes.
Speaker 1:It's been dipped in a little bit, but Use your bed for your bed. Setting up for a good night's sleep. Same wake time and bedtime Mm-hmm, that quite a big thing. Don't sleep in over the weekend, that's not a good idea well, not even by an extra half an hour maybe have that hour window at max hour window of.
Speaker 1:If you normally get up, you get between six and seven. Don't go any later than that. So during the week it's probably about the same. So over the weekend, if you want to have a little bit more sleep, don't go. Don't have an extra two hours, maybe have give yourself an extra half an hour your app will reduce your sleep score if you do that and, to be fair, like, who are these people that are doing this?
Speaker 1:anyway, if you're, if I'm up at 5 00 am every day, it's not like I get to the weekend and I'm sleeping to eight and going oh god, I needed that I'm still waking up around the same time. That's what's happening.
Speaker 2:It's really frustrating, I've noticed week. So every day this week I've been struggling to get up and get myself motivated for work. I'm using my alarm. This week, this weekend, literally, I sprung awake ready to rock and roll. It's just. It's just horrible. Maybe it's just me getting back into a routine either.
Speaker 1:Well, we fixed your routine, we fixed it.
Speaker 2:Anyways, sleep hygiene.
Speaker 1:Same way. A bit right, okay. Caffeine talked about that Cool room. Talked about that Working late. Cut off point yes, right.
Speaker 1:Cortisol sympathetic system, fight or flight that kicks in. You're getting stressed, cut that off. Sometimes maybe it's easier said than done. I'm a walking, walking, talking contradiction. You're cutting off.
Speaker 1:Ideally, I'd set my day up where I'd have five till midday just me Creative stuff, reading, learning new things, you know, catch up a little bit of work, but nothing too strenuous, and then from midday to seven, eight o'clock, clients, personal health. That's what we're looking for realistically, because hopefully that's not going to be too stressful. So I could work until maybe 8 pm in the gym and be like, okay, no, that was pretty good. You know good client, enjoy myself, that was good, it was good. I'm passionate about that. Not too stressed, come in and then just start winding down. So, yeah, think about having that cut off point if you can.
Speaker 1:But easier said than done, though, because if people need to work late, they need to respond to emails. The only time they get to do anything like that is in the evening. Just try and limit it if you can, because if you don't limit it and you're too stressed and you go to bed, stress, sympathetic system through the roof. Not good. Alcohol we've, oh God. Yeah, we try not to talk about alcohol, I'm not going to get into that now we know. I think, alcohol the biggest thing about alcohol it reduces REM sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is really important. So, as we now know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Which is rapid eye movement.
Speaker 1:We did an episode on alcohol. It wasn't very good. I've edited it. Now it's mainly me whinging, but as I said at the start, we're trying to move on. We concise.
Speaker 2:You live and you learn.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, some of it's okay, I think. Have a look. Eating cut off. Talked about that. Same with liquid Again, on average Two to three hours maybe. Why did you get?
Speaker 2:up to go to the toilet last night. Why did you drink before bed?
Speaker 1:Who knows, I didn't, I don't think I did. Just horrendous Everything about last night was horrendous. The irony as I've touched upon, I'd have a sit before bed.
Speaker 2:Not good Always.
Speaker 1:Don't know.
Speaker 3:Don't know what happened.
Speaker 1:So this is an interesting one. Revenge Bedtime.
Speaker 2:Syndrome? I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1:Right, very interesting. Please tell me more so it comes in different forms, but it's basically people. It's. It's basically people, it's something, basically it's. People will delay either consciously or subconsciously delay themselves going to go to sleep by maybe scrolling by, maybe just just doing other stuff, and this be it might be because they're really stressed. They don't want to actually start the next day. So there's the feeling when you get into bed you're knackered.
Speaker 1:You've had a long day but you've got to do it all again tomorrow exactly and it's like, oh my god, so, yeah, I want to go to sleep, but oh no, oh god, before I know it I'll be waking up and it's it's tuesday, so people might delay falling asleep by scrolling, by doing all the stuff that we associate as bad hygiene, bad sleep hygiene.
Speaker 2:Bad habits.
Speaker 1:To delay going to sleep in the first place. Also, I feel a lot of people might struggle with switching off purely because they're on their cortisol and everything else. Is that 100 during the day? Little kids, they got all this stuff and then you have that alone time. You have that time before bed, maybe for an hour or so, where it's just you. All the distractions are out the way. God forbid, those rats have gone to sleep, husband or wife is reading or doing their own thing and you've just got that time to yourself. And I think a lot of people might struggle with that as well. They actually can't, they don't know how. They don't actually know how to quite make use of that time and I I feel that could be quite stressful. And I think that's what this goes into that a lot of people, yes, delaying because they don't want to wake up the next day because of work and everything else, but also they don't quite know what to do with that time where everything slows down a little bit see oh, there's quite a lot to that.
Speaker 1:Maybe that also links in with with some people struggle to be have their own company yeah I don't, it's fantastic no problem not a struggle but also because it depends what you do in your own company, doesn't it? Yes, if you're sitting there watching TV, smoking, drinking, eating, my own company normally consists of me reading, listening to a podcast hmm, excellent getting winched up by me well, that's no, that's not my own company. Then is it? Oh right, because you're there, holy hell.
Speaker 2:I need a coffee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've talked about some quite science-y stuff, and that's the thing you slip up on.
Speaker 3:Oh sorry.
Speaker 1:What I mean by being in your own company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just thinking about embed. I mean, you're trying to read.
Speaker 1:Right, so that's, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:Very good Ben.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm sure there's lots more to that. I'm sure there's lots more studies that are involved in that and all the mechanisms behind it.
Speaker 2:May I ask you a question why do you wear those stupid glasses before bed oh right, so please tell us all what they are. You'll have to get them out in the next episode. They do.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, why am I not wearing them? Yes, right, I will go and get the glasses. Save that, we'll come back to that.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know a lot about the science about the glasses, but we'll come back to that.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:I think they do help. It might be a placebo. They don't? Let's talk about sleep debt. Quickly Sleep. What Sleep debt?
Speaker 2:Desh as in deep Debt.
Speaker 1:Sleep debt. You're in debt.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, fine, debt, debt, yeah, debt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I speak normally, though Deaf. So if it was deaf, I'd say deaf.
Speaker 2:Not debt Deaf.
Speaker 1:Sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but desh and desh is the same to me.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So that's your problem, isn't it? I need you to clarify. So sleep debt, debt, yes, lack of sleep, in other words, stop trying to be fancy over there. What? Sleep debt lack of sleep.
Speaker 1:I don't think the word debt is very fancy well, that's fancy. Jesus Christ right, so, and this is a bit of a kick in the nuts, I know I like being a fan. Jesus Christ Right, so, and this is a bit of a kick in the nuts. Ooh, with the genitalia, what have you got? This is a problem Because why?
Speaker 3:What are we doing? Just?
Speaker 1:saying hey, this is a problem Because people think that if they have a bad night's sleep, that the next day they can make up for it. That's not how it works, unfortunately it's not like the cows it's not like calories, no, it's not like. It's not like putting money in the bank and and then you spend a bit more, we go no, I'll put a bit more in and that cover the cost.
Speaker 2:Calories just put my leg up, stretched out banking calories during the week.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I had quite a lot. I had quite a lot today last night, but today I'll really I'll half, we'll get back, so damage will be minimal. Unfortunately, with sleep it doesn't work that way. You need to take your legs down. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2:There during this episode with your legs up on my.
Speaker 1:I need to stretch them out. How ridiculous. It doesn't work like calorie banking you can't catch up on the quality of REM sleep you've missed. So even if you get that extra hour of sleep or whatever sleep you've missed out on the night before, it's not going to work. So it will take up to. It will potentially take up to four days after missing out on that sleep to get back into a routine.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so even if you've underslept by an hour and a half, I'm sure the more more, the longer the gap in sleep, the worse it will take or the longer it will take, but it will take on average about about four days that's why night shifts are so bad right, exactly so.
Speaker 1:So you have your, your block of night shifts. It's not like if you, if you, the next day you then sleep or get back into that routine. Now, unfortunately, by the time you've, you've potentially started to dip the toes into oh, I'm almost, I'm getting there, the routine's getting back on track, it's all back at night right, big problem, there you go you have to hope then, being uh, doing night shifts, that your chronotype matches up. Maybe, if it does, you might get away with it or you'll be able to do it easier, which you assume.
Speaker 1:Maybe that will be the case, because a lot, a lot of people that get into that profession they know that they're gonna have to night shift. But if if your chronotype is is on the opposite side, you're in big trouble. Yeah, you can soldier on, but how long can you do that without without really damaging your health?
Speaker 2:well, that's why I used to always swap my night shifts. I preferred night shifts because it wasn't as busy sometimes and day shifts you had like, had like all the calls. You're a lot busier on a day shift, you're still very busy on a night shift, but you are literally pulled in every direction on a day shift and I used to always swap. And that was the only reason why she swapped was because of her children. She needed to get home, she needed to be there for them during the days and do that. So she barely ever slept.
Speaker 1:Bless her, needed to be there for them during the days and do that, so she barely ever slept. Yes, sir, not good, not good, right? So there is a gene that exists which enables some people very, very few people to be able to survive and get by and be, you know, reasonably functional on six hours or less sleep. A lot of people will say that a lot of hard work, going back to the people in the office late at night working hard or getting up really early in the morning. We'll. We'll say, oh, I've got, I've got the gene, or they'll go, I can, I can survive on five hours sleep, where in reality they're probably not. It's probably not true, they're talking crap, because only only one percent of everyone has this gene. It's it's the BHLHE41 gene. It's very rare. So there are some people out there that can get by on six hours or less sleep consistently and function just the same as everyone else, but it's very rare, very rare, very rare.
Speaker 2:How do you find out if you've got the gene or not?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I'm not sure we might have to get in contact with Matthew Walker.
Speaker 2:I don't have the gene.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, maybe I've got a feeling that everyone who watches this at this moment in time probably haven't got the gene In the future, when the numbers increase maybe Right, what else do we need to talk about Fiona? What else?
Speaker 2:is there. I think that's about it for today, Ben what else do we need to?
Speaker 1:Have we talked about sleep hygiene enough? Yes, ben, have we given enough tips?
Speaker 2:Yes, ben, you need to come back out with your glasses. You said, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, I've, we've covered a.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've done a fair amount now We've covered.
