#25 | In The Pursuit of Discipline

“Discipline Isn’t About Being Perfect—It’s About Having a Plan When You Can’t Be Arsed”

This episode unpacks the real reason most people fail at consistency—and spoiler alert—it’s not because they’re lazy.

Ben and Fiona tear down the myth that discipline is about grinding harder or punishing yourself into results. Instead, they reframe it as structure, systems, and having your own back when you least feel like it.

Key Takeaways:

• Motivation is unreliable.
  If your whole plan depends on “feeling it,” it’s already dead in the water.
• Discipline is structure, not self-punishment.
  It’s about removing choice in moments where choice becomes chaos.
• You don’t need to be perfect—just consistent enough.
  Fiona shares how learning to bounce back from slip-ups (instead of spiralling) was a game-changer.
• Slipping up doesn’t mean starting over.
  A bad day is just a bad day. Not a reason to torch the whole week.
• Messy repetition > heroic effort.
  Progress comes from doing the basics even when it feels crap, not waiting for a magical fresh start.

Straight from the buff horse's mouth: 

Ben: 

“You don't need to be motivated. You just need to have a plan that works on the days when you can’t be arsed.”

“People think discipline is about being hard on yourself. It’s not. It’s doing what you said you’d do even when the mood you said it in has long fucked off.”

Straight from the stubby leprechaun's mouth

Fiona:

“I used to think discipline meant I had to ignore every craving. But now I realise it’s about not letting a bad day become a bad week.”

“It’s not about doing it perfectly. It’s about doing it badly, repeatedly, until you get somewhere.”

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot. 

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes: 

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom. 

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition! 

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days! 

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits? 

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER 

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Transcript

Fiona 0:02

One, two, three.

Ben 0:06

She's Fiona.

Fiona 0:07

And I'm, he's Ben. And I'm Ben.

Ben 0:10

She's Fiona.

Fiona 0:11

And he's Ben.

Ben 0:12

And this is Pushable Health.

Fiona 0:13

Pushing your health from the pulse of life.

Ben 0:15

I'm asking you to embrace your rotten attitude to exercise and nutrition. And empowering you to give the middle finger to your unrestricted diet and your half-assed exercise routine in just 30 days. Something along those lines. Something to that effect. We're in. Great. That's less than a minute. We've introduced the show. She's Fiona and I'm Ben. And let's go. Brilliant.

Fiona 0:40

Okay. What are we talking about? Terrible idea

Ben 0:41

this though, isn't it?

Fiona 0:42

Yeah, it's late at night.

Ben 0:43

Recording in the evening.

Fiona 0:44

I know no one

Ben 0:45

cares about this. No one cares about the woes. No one cares about me, that I'm tired. I just had to get that out there.

Fiona 0:52

I'm tired too, so I'm like, you're not. It's a shame. Terrible idea. Sorry, sorry.

Ben 0:56

It's the tiredness.

Fiona 0:57

Oh, okay. Makes you delirious.

Ben 0:58

Awful, awful idea.

Fiona 1:00

Yep. Anyway. We're both ready for bed.

Ben 1:03

We'll be getting straight into bed after this, yeah.

Fiona 1:05

Oh.

Ben 1:06

Yeah.

Fiona 1:06

Really?

Ben 1:07

Well, it's pushing,

Fiona 1:08

eh? It's half six.

Ben 1:10

Well, who knows how long this will go on for?

Fiona 1:12

Not that long, trust me.

Ben 1:13

Half six, exactly, yeah.

Fiona 1:14

Right. So what's our topic of discussion today, Ben?

Ben 1:17

Discipline.

Fiona 1:18

Yeah.

Ben 1:19

That's the topic?

Fiona 1:20

It is.

Ben 1:20

The pursuit of discipline. Oh. Is that right?

Fiona 1:23

Yes.

Ben 1:24

Okay.

Fiona 1:24

How do you pursue your discipline?

Ben 1:27

Well, we're going to get into it. I'm not quite sure how these notes are going to turn out because I've sent you the notes. You have my notes.

Fiona 1:33

I do. I'm looking at them. And

Ben 1:34

before we recorded, you were just whinging about them.

Fiona 1:37

Yes, because they don't make sense. There

Ben 1:40

might be someone who's watching who can tell me how to take my notes, give them to you. And

Fiona 1:47

me to approve. Yes. I probably will never approve.

Ben 1:52

Well, I'm asking you right now on camera, how would you like me to deliver the notes to you?

Fiona 1:55

Maybe just a little... explanation about what you mean by it such as i have here it sucks to do it

Ben 2:03

right it was more about read these notes and then you go oh oh that looks interesting oh can we um can we expand on that

Fiona 2:09

oh yeah of course podcast sucks too

Ben 2:12

no it doesn't

Fiona 2:13

sucks to do what i don't understand so yeah maybe just a little bit of clarity

Ben 2:18

okay

Fiona 2:19

would be good right and just tell me exactly what you want me to read out

Ben 2:22

is this interesting

Fiona 2:23

Probably not. Okay. Let's move on then. No one cares. So discipline can only come from within, Ben. As your notes.

Ben 2:32

It is, yeah. Well, no, I'll give you the notes because I want you to scan the notes and then I want your opinion. And then from there, I will then...

Fiona 2:40

Fantastic idea. Fantastic. It's a fantastic idea, Ben. Right, right. But there's no clarity. So I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Ben 2:47

Right.

Fiona 2:48

For you to send a note, you know exactly what you're talking about. I don't. If I sent you a message saying, it sucks to do it, you'd be just like, what the fuck is she on about?

Ben 2:56

Not swearing.

Fiona 2:57

Sorry, you'd be saying, what the hell is she on about?

Ben 2:59

Children.

Fiona 3:00

That's what you'd be saying.

Ben 3:01

I can elaborate though, that's the point.

Fiona 3:04

Anyway, before I start whinging about the position of the lights, let's get to it. Yes, the camera might go dead.

Ben 3:09

Discipline can only come from... Oh, that's right. It looked like we were recording on a potato last episode. The quality was not good. A potato? Yeah, it was terrible. The lighting was atrocious. The quality on the camera was just still 1080p, but bloody hell. You can notice the difference. This is awkward. What's happened? You all right?

Fiona 3:31

Yeah, I'm fine.

Ben 3:31

Okay. So what I've got here, haven't I? Discipline can only come from within.

Fiona 3:35

Yeah, tell me a bit about Jocko and Goggins.

Ben 3:37

Jocko and Goggins, right.

Fiona 3:38

Who are these buckles?

Ben 3:39

Well, we have talked about these people.

Fiona 3:41

Oh.

Ben 3:42

I thought we'd touch upon them briefly at the start just to get them out of the way because they're on the extreme end when it comes to self-discipline. Discipline. Motivation,

Fiona 3:51

willpower. Oh, what was that saying that you said?

Ben 3:54

Jocko.

Fiona 3:55

Yeah.

Ben 3:56

Good.

Fiona 3:57

No.

Ben 3:58

No, it was. It was the good thing. He has this thing. He's got lots of things about discipline.

Fiona 4:02

There was a saying that you said about discipline that I was moaning at you in another podcast.

Ben 4:07

Probably Jocko.

Fiona 4:09

I don't know. I can't remember who it

Ben 4:10

was. I think it was Jocko. It was the good, wasn't

Fiona 4:12

it? But I was just like... So I said, for

Ben 4:13

example, you get fired from your job. You lose your house.

Fiona 4:18

I've

Ben 4:18

lost my house. Good.

Fiona 4:20

my

Ben 4:21

wife's had an affair

Fiona 4:22

good

Ben 4:23

good any more about Jocko I don't big scary army guy he's really into the discipline I think on his Instagram he shows a picture of his watch and it's like I guess about 4am every day alright Jocko alright Jocko we get it you're up at 4 but it's discipline do you think Jocko wants to get up at 4am every day

Fiona 4:44

does he have any motivational quotes

Ben 4:46

no I'm sure plenty this is the thing about discipline Do you think these people want to be doing this?

Fiona 4:51

No. Who would?

Ben 4:53

That's where...

Fiona 4:54

But then discipline would then, I know we're going to talk about it later according to our notes, but discipline will also become part of a routine as well. And it becomes part of a habit.

Ben 5:02

Yes, of course.

Fiona 5:03

Because if you're used to getting up at 4am, you'll just continue to get up at 4am. Discipline, yeah. Yes. But then it's routine.

Ben 5:10

If you solely rely on motivation or willpower to get up every day at 4am...

Fiona 5:14

I'd be screwed.

Ben 5:15

Yeah. Chances are, I feel a lot of people won't be getting up every day at 4am. You might manage it once or twice a week, but not every day. If you rely on willpower or motivation. David Goggins. Who's going to carry the boat? He's a character. You must have heard of Goggins. Stay hard. Black guy, bald. Very scary. Shouts a lot. You've never seen Goggins. David Goggins.

Speaker 02 5:40

No.

Ben 5:41

He talks about who's going to carry the boat. He was in the, oh no, what was he in? Oh God, what's Goggins in quickly? What was he in? The Marines? I think he was in the Marine Corps. And one of the tests that they get, they go through this hell week, which is just a week of hell, funny enough, where they just did lots of, lots of just horrible stuff, carrying boats, swimming, doing all sorts of stuff. And one of the tasks is they have to carry these boats, these inflatable boats, and they weigh, I don't know, 200 pounds and logs. They have to carry big logs as

Fiona 6:10

well. I can't find anything.

Ben 6:11

Along the beachfront, in and out of the sea, you'd have to carry these big boats, logs, whatever. One of Goggins' quotes that he's quite renowned for is, who's going to carry the boat? So when people are out there at 4am carrying the boats, freezing cold, people will then fall over. They drop out. The guys they were carrying the boats with. So then Goggins would then shout, who's going to carry the boats? And that would lift everyone up again. Oh my God. We're going to carry the boats, Goggins. Come on, let's keep going.

Fiona 6:40

Because of the team. Because you're part of a team. Yes. But I

Ben 6:43

think you can take it as a metaphor, can't you?

Fiona 6:45

For

Ben 6:46

your own life.

Fiona 6:47

Yeah.

Ben 6:47

When the chips are down, when things aren't going your way, when you're having a bit of a smelly time, who's going to carry the boat? I can't do this anymore. I'll give up. I can't. I just can't push people's health from the pools of life anymore. No, that's it. It's over.

Fiona 7:02

I can't

Ben 7:03

record these stupid podcasts anymore. No, it's half six. No, it's too late. I'm knackered. This is going to be rubbish. Who's going to carry the boat?

Fiona 7:12

I did. Because I said, let's do it. Bloody hell, Goggins. So I motivated you.

Ben 7:18

I don't think so.

Fiona 7:19

Just go with it.

Ben 7:20

I think you're the one who's screaming who's going to carry the boat. Not me. In this case, it's definitely you screaming that. Sorry, are you listening? Are you switched off over there? No. Did you listen to anything I said?

Fiona 7:33

Yes, carrying the boats, Ben. I know

Ben 7:37

this is going to be a rough one,

Fiona 7:38

but come on. I can't carry the boats, Ben.

Ben 7:41

Right.

Fiona 7:41

Okay.

Ben 7:43

For what? Everything? For life? Everything. Right. Okay. What did I say then about Goggins?

Fiona 7:49

You were saying about his motivation. You were explaining about the reasons as to why carrying the boats. It was more of a team thing. So that motivated the people to get up and carry the boats because there was nobody else to carry the boats.

Ben 8:01

Right. Okay. Yes. And it's a metaphor for life, isn't it? Yes. But the point with these two, and if we're talking about Goggins, is that the vast majority of people don't need that. They don't need that extremeness. They don't need Goggins in their life. I look at Goggins and I think, oh, great. I'm not inspired by Goggins. Not really. Because he's too OTT. His body's breaking to pieces. His knees are screwed. His feet. He's like, you know, he's just broken. But he's still going. Still running. Still doing all his stuff. I'm assuming he still does this. He does lots of his runs and he listens to people who leave negative comments. He has the audio of that in his ears that he listens to. Just people just saying horrible things. Apparently. Something along those lines. I don't know if that's a bit of a myth.

Fiona 8:42

So what, he gets somebody to record them so he can listen to

Ben 8:47

them? Potentially. Or maybe he does it himself. Maybe he just reads the comments to himself, records them, and then it's like, Goggins, you suck. No one cares what you have to say, Goggins. We don't care about carrying the boat. And he's just running on and listening to that.

Speaker 00 9:00

Oh. I'd listen to that.

Ben 9:02

Like, it's obscene. But my point is, this is going to be a slightly rough one. It's a rough episode, this. The point is, most people don't need that level of extremeness. They don't need that level of discipline. They don't need it. You know, Sally, mother of two, doesn't need to hear Goggins talk about who's going to carry the boat. Not really.

Fiona 9:22

Well, not because they're not going to understand it.

Ben 9:24

You just need to go, right, Sally, you don't need to go for a four-hour run this morning. Can you go for a 20-minute walk?

Fiona 9:29

Join a walking club. Right.

Ben 9:32

Can you just start doing something like that?

Fiona 9:35

Hmm.

Ben 9:35

Because if you say to Sally, right, Sally, who's going to carry the boat? You need to get your ass out there and start going on a two-hour run. Between picking the kids up from school, you've got to go on that two-hour run every single day. Oh, but bloody hell. What about loose women? That's not at 12. No, Sally. No more loose women.

Fiona 9:55

Oh.

Ben 9:56

Who's going to carry the boat? Go hard. Get your trainers on and get out there. If you just say to Sally, right, you can still watch loose women, but before or after, Can you go for a 20 minute walk?

Fiona 10:07

Or you could buy a walking treadmill and watch loose women on the treadmill.

Ben 10:12

Right, okay. Potentially, yeah.

Fiona 10:14

There you go, killing two birds with one stone.

Ben 10:16

Right, okay. But that's, you know, you've got to pay for the treadmill. Maybe just watch loose women and then go for the walk afterwards. Yes. Or do a 20 minute workout. Not a huge fan of the HIIT workouts at home, but if that's what gets you going, that gets you started and you can commit to it two to three times a week, no problem. Start there.

Fiona 10:34

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Ben 10:36

Exactly. So the point of Goggins and Jocko, they're just a bit extreme for most people.

Fiona 10:41

Okay.

Ben 10:42

Goggins in particular, he's really extreme.

Speaker 00 10:47

Okay.

Ben 10:48

Did

Fiona 10:48

any of that make sense? Yes, it did. Did it? It did. Did, dud. Oh, where are you going? Ooh, striptease. Ooh, take it all off.

Ben 11:01

Okay, de-robed. God almighty. Just can't get comfortable tonight.

Fiona 11:08

What is going on over there?

Ben 11:09

I don't know. I'm just trying to get comfy.

Fiona 11:12

Right. Another point. Go

Ben 11:13

hard.

Fiona 11:14

Oh.

Ben 11:15

Who's going to carry the boat?

Fiona 11:16

Right. People haven't learned it's worth it if they have never achieved it. Explain.

Ben 11:22

Here's one more from Goggins, Fiona. Yeah, I heard that. There's a clip on where he's on Joe Rogan. You know Joe Rogan.

Fiona 11:28

I do.

Ben 11:29

He's talking about how he has to sometimes look at his trainers for 30 minutes before he goes out and puts them on. Sorry, before he puts them on and goes out.

Fiona 11:35

It's to look at them.

Ben 11:36

Yes.

Fiona 11:36

For 30 minutes.

Ben 11:37

Yeah.

Fiona 11:37

Right, who's got time for that?

Ben 11:40

Well, that goes into the point of you think these people are like superheroes. You think Jocko and him, they were just born disciplined.

Fiona 11:45

Oh, he's building up the motivation. But

Ben 11:47

sometimes he just doesn't want to go out and he looks at his trainers for half an hour before he puts them on. Because he knows what happens when he puts his trainers on. He goes for the six hour run.

Fiona 11:56

Well, why doesn't he just go for two hours? It's not enough. Or six.

Ben 12:00

It's not enough. You've got to stay hard. Hmm.

Fiona 12:03

Okay.

Ben 12:03

Who's going to carry the boat?

Fiona 12:06

Yeah, but...

Ben 12:07

Right, okay, anyway. Yeah, let's go.

Fiona 12:08

People haven't learnt it's worth it if they've never achieved it. I think that's very good.

Ben 12:15

It's my own words.

Fiona 12:16

Oh.

Ben 12:17

Do you know what I mean by that?

Fiona 12:19

Yes.

Ben 12:20

Okay. Well, please elaborate then. So

Fiona 12:23

I'll never know what it's like to have a six pack because I've never had it. No,

Ben 12:29

I'm not going to that level, no, because we don't need to be chasing six-packs

Fiona 12:32

for most people. Or the feeling of, you know, going to the gym, becoming a routine, because I have never achieved that. Because I always, after a couple of weeks, I'll say, yeah, I've had enough of it. And I've never achieved, I feel great when I'm going to the gym, but I've never had it as a part of a routine in my life. So I've missed out because you get a good, you have to go to the gym now. You have to go to the gym. Yes. Yes.

Ben 13:24

Yes. What pain are you willing to accept? What pain are you willing to accept every day, most days, every day?

Fiona 13:30

What do you mean pain?

Ben 13:34

If it's not painful, it's almost not worth doing. That's the thing about embracing your own attitude. I'm saying embrace your own attitude, which means your attitude remains rotten throughout. It doesn't mean embrace your own attitude and then you start loving the exercise. You start loving being conscious of what you're shoving in your gob. No, of course not. Your rotten attitude remains throughout. It's just you need to start embracing it and doing something because you're not doing anything.

Fiona 14:00

But then it gets easier as time goes on, doesn't it? Going to the gym.

Ben 14:04

Does

Fiona 14:04

it? Not particularly. Because the first step is the hardest. It's signing up. It's going to the gym.

Ben 14:09

Yeah. The micro steps. Yeah. The micro steps of

Fiona 14:13

doing that. Once you're in there doing anything, it's great. And you feel good afterwards. Then you're excited to do it again. And then you take a couple of days off and then it's back to square one. Hard to do it again. For me, personally. You're disciplined because it's become part of your routine and your habit. So if you break that habit or that routine, then you feel like crap. Because you say, why have I gym today? Why didn't I do this today? You beat yourself up over it.

Speaker 01 14:44

Yes.

Fiona 14:45

So it's not about you being disciplined. Because you are disciplined because you've become so disciplined, it's part of your routine and habit. It's the motivation that is your problem because sometimes you might lack the motivation. But because you're disciplined, you're still able to push yourself to go.

Ben 14:59

Of course, yes. I can still get it done.

Fiona 15:02

Yes. Whereas somebody who is not motivated or disciplined, it's a completely new habit. It's a completely new routine. And I have to change things in my day to do.

Ben 15:13

Well, no, people are reliant on motivation and willpower. That's the difference. They're relying on it. And if they're only relying on that, chances are it's not going to get down. If they're relying on willpower or motivation alone to get themselves to go outside for a walk or to go to the gym, nine times out of ten, it might not be there. Motivation comes and goes.

Fiona 15:38

Yes. Even for yourself, it comes and goes. But you still... Do it because you're disciplined. Yeah.

Ben 15:44

Well, like you said, what did you say at the start? I have to go to the gym because it sets me up. Yeah. Because if I'm going to turn up for everyone else and myself and work and clients and be a half decent human being, it must get done. A couple of things that must get done

Fiona 16:03

every

Ben 16:03

day.

Fiona 16:04

I was saying if you didn't do that, if you didn't go to the gym.

Ben 16:08

I'd be a

Fiona 16:08

much worse person. Yeah. But that's because, again, it's become part of your routine to do it. Whereas if I didn't go to gym, I'd be just like, oh, probably should have done that. Anyways, that's for dinner.

Ben 16:19

Right. So it's not worth it. They haven't learned, have they? So people haven't learned it's worth it if they've never achieved it.

Speaker 00 16:24

Right. Yes.

Ben 16:27

Okay. I think that sort of made sense.

Speaker 00 16:30

Yes.

Ben 16:32

Okay. What else? What else is on that fantastic set of notes I gave you that's worth discussing?

Fiona 16:39

Going back to the gym, going back to your diet when you were miserable for so long.

Ben 16:47

I used to struggle with the idea of why people would choose to go back after they've done a diet, after they've lost a good amount of weight, after they've got into an exercise routine. Also based on what I just said about you don't really ever enjoy it.

Fiona 17:03

Do you mean go back? How do you mean go back? Well, they

Ben 17:05

basically start again.

Fiona 17:07

They might

Ben 17:07

put the weight back on. They might stop exercising completely. So they might go back to where they started. And unfortunately, people go even worse. They go back to where they started and some. They become even more deconditioned. They put on even more weight.

Fiona 17:21

Yes, because it's easier to sit in front of the sofa and have a glass of wine or whatever than go down to the gym, isn't it?

Ben 17:28

It links in with the fact that you never really do enjoy it. And that's okay. the right attitude. For the vast majority of people, you may never really truly enjoy exercising or being conscious of what you're shoveling in your gob. There's always going to be that level of pain. That's okay. There needs to be a bit of pain. If you're skipping into the gym and it's like, oh my God, just so happy to be here every day. Oh, it's amazing. Oh, I just love watching what I eat all the time. It's great. That sort of defeats the point. There needs to be a bit of pain.

Speaker 02 18:09

Yes.

Ben 18:09

Because if it's not painful, then it's almost too easy. If it's too easy, you then don't need the discipline. If it becomes too easy, if you can do it on autopilot, then, oh no, it's not realistic, is it? Embrace your rotten attitude, but your rotten attitude remains. It doesn't go. You don't embrace it and then, oh God, I'm free. The rotten attitude's gone. I just love exercise. Oh, I just love being conscious of what I shove in my gob. I love it.

Fiona 18:37

Is anyone like that at all?

Ben 18:39

No, but that's what people, I think that's what people think. That's what people think they need to achieve. They need to go, oh God, how do I achieve this? How do I achieve really enjoying exercising? Look at all these people. All these people just loving it. Turning up to the gym all the time. Oh, I'm so jealous of them. They just love it.

Fiona 18:57

They

Ben 18:57

love going to the gym every day. They love being conscious of what they shove in their gob. They just love it.

Fiona 19:01

Well, you're probably the only person who's actually fully honest with it. Because, you know, before when I used to go to the gym and all of that type of stuff, you'd never usually hear people say, oh, yeah, I really struggle with the motivation to do it. But I have to do it. Because you're honest. You say what a pain in the arse it is to have to do.

Speaker 01 19:20

Yes. For

Ben 19:21

the most part.

Fiona 19:22

Yeah, you're just like, it's crap. And you kind of understand the motivation side

Ben 19:26

of things. Well,

Fiona 19:27

it's

Ben 19:28

not

Fiona 19:28

a graph, yeah. It's got to

Ben 19:29

get done. And a lot of people, they may never reach that level where it has to get done. But you need to get pretty close. You need to get as close as possible to the point of when you don't do the exercise, when you aren't conscious of what you're shoving in your gob for a sustained period of time. Say you have over Christmas and periods of time where you... You let loose a little bit. You don't exercise as much. You go off your diet if you're on a diet, whatever. You need to get to the point or close to it where, for example, with Christmas coming up, that in the new year, you're chomping at the bit to get back to it.

Fiona 20:11

What do you mean chomping at the

Ben 20:12

bit? You're chomping at the bit to get back to routine.

Fiona 20:16

Oh, right. To

Ben 20:17

get back to a routine. That doesn't mean you're looking forward to it as such. You're just chomping at the bit because you know you need that routine. I struggled with why people just happily went back to where they were before, before they started an exercise routine, before they started being more conscious of their diet. But for the most part, I think it's because they spent the whole time miserable. Yes, it was painful, but it was just utter misery. That's what a lot of people just associate that with. Yes, a bit of pain, but just misery. So much pain. Because they want the quick fix. Right, okay. Take a few seconds. Let me have a glass of drink. Glass of drink, do you

Speaker 02 21:08

want that?

Fiona 21:11

Well, that's the thing. If people don't see the results after, so after a couple of days or a couple of weeks, they don't see the results that they want... such as I'm a size 16 today in two weeks time I want to be a size 12 it's unrealistic so people then just give up because it's so miserable trying to do it because they're doing it to the extreme like oh I'm giving myself two weeks to lose seven pounds or one week to lose seven pounds so I'm going to go into starvation mode or I'm going to do this for the whole time starvation mode we've talked about that yes you know what I mean though But they're just so restrictive with everything. They're going to be completely miserable for that length of time. And then they're still not going to get the results that they want because it's so unrealistic. They just give up and just like, oh, frig this, moving on.

Ben 22:07

But the quick fix is based on motivation. It's being motivated to

Fiona 22:11

do it. Yes, to continue it.

Ben 22:12

Having the willpower to do it. I've got the willpower. I've got the motivation to do it for a certain period of time. But that's it. So if you base it on just that and you don't think, oh, do you know what? Well, this needs to be a long-term thing. To make this a long-term thing, I need to be more disciplined. I need to start learning self-discipline. Because if I don't, if that's not the goal, then chances are this is going to be a short-term thing.

Fiona 22:42

But everything is going to be a short-term thing because everyone has goals. So, oh, I want to go to that wedding in three months' time. it's still a short term goal yes

Ben 22:51

it's almost like it's almost like every time someone goes right I'm ready to start a diet I'm ready to start I'm ready to exercise I'm ready to embrace my right attitude it's almost like okay are you are you willing to forget about the goals don't like the word goals goals is an end point isn't it it's okay what happens if you don't reach the goal

Fiona 23:06

you give up

Ben 23:07

but there's an end point oh I've got a goal of doing this right okay but then what well let's just get there first it's like okay fine that's okay I want to lose 30 pounds well let's let's lose one let's lose one

Fiona 23:20

Let's

Ben 23:20

lose one and keep it off.

Fiona 23:21

One's better than none.

Ben 23:22

The goal is always the end point. It's a start and finish, isn't it? And that's, again, it's not the point. Motivation, start and finish. Willpower, start and finish. I think in the future, I'm going to ask everyone, right, okay, we need to make sure that you're willing to accept that you need to become disciplined. We're doing this to make you more disciplined. I'm not going to start shouting about the boat and say good at everything. I'm not going to start jockeying you or... Goggins, you.

Fiona 23:52

Goggins. Goggins.

Ben 23:53

Goggins. Forget about the goals. We need to set you standards, rules, whatever. Rules for yourself that you need to live by forever. Standards that you want to set to yourself. Standards you want to set for yourself. And the point of this is at the end of the 30 days, the first 30 days, you're not going to be disciplined, but you're going to be on the right track. Mm-hmm. Because if you don't have that in mind, this whole diet, this whole four-week, six-week thing, you're going to be motivated. You're going to be driven by motivation. Willpower is going to come and go during the 30 days. That'll come and go just during the first 30 days. Motivation and willpower start depleting bit by bit. By the time it gets into the 30 days, it's gone all completely. You're like, God, I'm knackered. I need a month off.

Fiona 24:47

Do you find out what clients... Hang on, what? Usually after the third or fourth week, that's when they start to lose the motivation, the willpower, the discipline.

Ben 24:54

Well, potentially, yeah. It depends how extreme it is. Well, not the Push for Health studio or on the app. It's not extreme. We go, here's 30 days. Let's just follow this for 30 days and go from there. But naturally, people, for the most part, can be a little bit extreme because they might have in their heads, oh, I might only be here for 30 days. And I probably shoot myself in the foot a little bit because I say about the whole 30 day thing. In just 30 days. Yes.

Fiona 25:25

But all that

Ben 25:26

means is that I will put you in a position in 30 days for you to continue this. Either here with me or elsewhere. Not to sack it off. Not to go back to what you were doing before. That's what's getting lost in translation I feel.

Fiona 25:44

And it's up to you to continue that. Yeah. As in decline.

Ben 25:47

How do people think they're going to solve all their problems in 30 days?

Fiona 25:54

Quick fix.

Ben 25:56

They might have another 40, 50 years left, yeah?

Fiona 25:58

Yeah.

Ben 25:58

What are you going to do then? Setting yourself rules that you live by. Standards.

Fiona 26:04

Your environment will do much of the heavy lifting if you align it to where you want to go. So you were saying previously about living in an obesogenic environment and that type of stuff.

Ben 26:15

Yeah, I think we've touched upon the old obesogenic environment quite a lot, to be honest. Yeah, if you're surrounded by cookies and cakes and they're everywhere and they're in the cupboard and every time you open the fridge, there's a massive chocolate cake in there.

Fiona 26:27

Those bloody eyeballs yesterday.

Ben 26:28

You're trying to lose weight. This is Halloween recently.

Fiona 26:32

Temptation.

Ben 26:33

If you're trying to be more conscious of what you're shoving in your gob, think about your environment. Think about your food environment. It's the same if you want to start getting better with exercising. If you want to start walking a bit more, maybe join a walking club. If you want to become a bodybuilder, you should probably be around bodybuilders. If that's what you want to do. If you want to step on stage and put the fake tan on and starve yourself, you should probably be around people that are doing that.

Fiona 27:03

Yeah, but I'd find it very difficult to be, if I met, if I came into the Possible Health Studio and you were walking this big massive bodybuilder, like ripped, like steroided up and all of this. I'm literally like envisioning, envisioning Arnie Schwarzenegger. I'd run a mile.

Speaker 01 27:19

Arnold who?

Fiona 27:20

Schwarzenegger. I'd run a mile because how can you ever relate to me who's struggling with weight when you look like that?

Ben 27:31

Well, that's, yeah, that's an interesting point, Fiona. I think there is something to that. There is something to that. I don't know how far you push it, where you've got, well, personal training, alcohol anonymous, whatever. Chances are the people that will be running groups or will be a personal trainer will have some skin in the game, will have some experience. They may have been an alcoholic. They may have been a drug addict. If I have clients coming in who have struggled with their body image, with binge eating, emotional eating, weight going up and down, well, it helps that I've had that as well. if I've just been chiseled to the bone my whole life and I've had a ripped six-pack and I've never had a problem with binge eating or emotional eating, my weight's never gone up and down, I've never been quite rotund.

Fiona 28:22

Rotund.

Ben 28:23

Rotund. Rotund. Heavy.

Fiona 28:25

Bigger. Yes, yes, I get it. I understand what it means. Oh,

Ben 28:27

sorry. I apologise. Yeah, if I hadn't experienced that, then it's harder for me to then relate to

Speaker 02 28:35

Sally

Ben 28:37

coming in, mother of two. Yeah. Put on a bit of weight after the children. Never exercised before. Hasn't exercised since school, so 25 years ago. Never been conscious of what she was shoving in her gob. And there's me going, oh, yeah, in my vest, nipple out, going, yeah, just, Sally, I've got you. I've got you. I know exactly. Oh, all that stuff you just said, I know exactly where you're coming from. Do you?

Fiona 29:03

Yeah, I don't think so. See, that's what I mean. I'd struggle with that a lot.

Ben 29:07

Right on attitude.

Fiona 29:08

Yeah.

Ben 29:09

I feel most people to a degree, they might not word it that way, but they've got a pretty smelly attitude when it comes to exercising. The idea of dieting. I'm your guy.

Fiona 29:23

You are.

Ben 29:23

Come embrace it. What would you say about people who are in this position? If someone came in who was struggling with binge eating and I myself... used to binge eat and I still do say I was, I was still struggling with binge eating. We can communicate and, and she could tell me about stuff or he could tell me about stuff regarding binge eating that I can relate to because I'm actually, I've done it. I've been there and I'm currently doing it still now and again. So in one sense, I am the perfect person for Sally, but am I?

Fiona 30:05

Well, you might be a bit too relatable if you're still currently doing it, and therefore you might be more easygoing about it, even though you're not going to be giving out to people. But you have more of an understanding, so you'd be probably more empathetic towards the reasons as to why.

Ben 30:20

Relating, but properly being able to relate. Not just, oh yeah, I've known other people like you.

Fiona 30:26

Yeah, so you might be more easy on that person. Instead of saying, right, you need to do this, you need to track, you need to whatever, whatever you say. Right,

Ben 30:38

so yeah, okay. So that could be a good thing, but then could that also be a bad thing? If someone's talking about mental health, they've struggled with their mental health in the past, but they are also going through a period of pretty poor mental health. And they're talking to a room full of people who are all struggling in their own way. And at that precise moment, they are also struggling massively. So they can relate. But are they the right person to be helping those individuals right that second? Alcoholics. Yes, I used to be a former alcoholic. The person leading the group. But they relapsed yesterday.

Fiona 31:21

But they wouldn't be doing that then because there's provisions in place.

Ben 31:25

Yes, but you see what I'm trying to say? In one sense, that's the perfect person to be helping them because they get it.

Fiona 31:31

They

Ben 31:31

get it more than anyone. But at the same time, well...

Fiona 31:34

Well, it makes them more relatable, doesn't it? If you went in there to somebody who's never, who has completely absenced the whole life or abstained from alcohol for the whole life and was this person talking about alcohol addiction, you would never relate to that person because they wouldn't understand the trauma, what addiction does to the person and to the family because they've never experienced it themselves. So it'd be very difficult to relate. I think, anyways. I'm assuming so.

Ben 32:06

Say someone comes in to me. Let's finish on this. There's something there, but we may have touched upon it another time. Someone comes in to me and I'm big. Big guy. And I'm overweight. I'm pretty high on the old BMI. I'm a personal trainer. And I'm saying, I help people lose weight every day. I help people embrace their right to exercise and nutrition. But I've got this top on that is quite ill-fitted. And I'm... struggling with my own diet and I'm not exercising but I'm then asking people to embrace their own attitude come join the gym I can help them lose weight I can help them exercise but I'm not doing it hmm but I know what to do I've gone through periods in my life that I've been great with exercise and my diet's been on point oh I've been embracing my own attitude it's been great

Fiona 32:55

that's more about image Jordan isn't it

Ben 32:58

but I'm currently not doing it hmm I'm not practicing what I'm preaching. There's a cure for every addiction. You just need to renew it every day.

Fiona 33:11

Where's that on the notes?

Ben 33:12

No, that's on my notes.

Fiona 33:13

Why do you have different notes to me?

Ben 33:15

No, I don't think I gave you all the notes. I think I added more notes.

Speaker 00 33:20

Oh, of course.

Ben 33:22

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this on the last episode, actually. And I just forgot. Which was? I forgot to, I don't know, the Hocus Pocus one.

Fiona 33:29

It's just a bunch of Hocus Pocus.

Ben 33:30

Yes, I forgot to expand on it.

Fiona 33:32

Something

Ben 33:32

called ego depletion.

Fiona 33:34

Right. So Roy Baumeister's ego depletion theory is based on the idea that willpower is a finite resource.

Ben 33:46

Finite?

Fiona 33:46

That can be depleted over time, especially after consecutive tasks requiring self-control. Key findings from his research include glucose as a fuel for willpower. So this suggests that willpower relies on glucose as a fuel source. He found that blood glucose levels drop after tasks requiring self-control, which can lead to a decreased performance in following tasks if glucose is not replenished. In experiments, participants who performed tasks requiring high levels of self-control, such as resisting temptation or focusing intently, showed reduced glucose levels and then performed worse on subsequent tasks needing willpower. Very interesting.

Ben 34:35

Right, yes, Carol DeWick. So we're going to compare Roy's work to Carol DeWick. She did a book called Mindset. Fixed Mindset versus Growth Mindset. Have you heard of her? No. Heard of those mindsets? Nope. Well, you can sort of work it out, can't you? A fixed mindset. What's a fixed mindset?

Fiona 34:52

Don't know. No room

Ben 34:53

to grow.

Fiona 34:54

Yes, I'm not going to the gym. Right, yes. I'm not

Ben 34:56

doing that. I can't do it.

Fiona 34:57

Freak that.

Ben 34:58

I can't be, I'm overweight. I'm a big slob. I'm gross. I'm going to be like this forever. Nothing I can do about it. Fixed mindset. Growth mindset. You know what? I've got to try and get some self-discipline.

Fiona 35:13

I'm going to go to that gym and I'm going to lose my mind. I'm going to

Ben 35:15

start carrying the boat.

Fiona 35:16

Yep.

Ben 35:17

I can't do it now. I'm nowhere near carrying the boat, but... I'm going to start trying to do something about it. I'm going to start trying to find a way to embrace my raw attitude. Yeah, very good.

Fiona 35:30

So Carol Dweck's findings challenge the assumption that willpower is purely constrained by physical resources such as glucose. Her research...

Ben 35:42

Hmm. Well, it's late. It's late, Fiona. I'm struggling. I can barely get... A sentence out.

Fiona 35:47

Her research suggests that beliefs about willpower play a more significant role than physiological factors in determines people's resilience during successive tasks. Mindset over glucose. So Duhigg's research reveals that willpower is not necessarily limited by glucose levels. Rather, it is shaped by one's belief about its availability. If individuals believe willpower is finite, They

Ben 36:13

are

Fiona 36:20

more likely to feel depleted and perform worse on subsequent tasks. Conversely, if they believe willpower is unlimited, they are less likely to experience fatigue and can maintain high performance across multiple tasks. Duex experiments shows that participants with a non-limited mindset about willpower perform better on demanding tasks and were more likely to persist regardless of glucose consumption. This suggests that one's belief about willpower significantly influences their actual stamina and capacity for self-control.

Ben 36:59

Good. Wow.

Fiona 37:02

So who do we believe? Does it

Ben 37:03

make sense? When you read these out, does it make sense?

Fiona 37:06

Probably not, because I can't read things out

Ben 37:08

loud. Well, this is the thing. I mentioned ego depletion. I've mentioned it a few times. And on the last episode, I had notes about it. And I forgot to follow up. I don't think ego depletion is completely woo-woo. I've talked about ego depletion based on people at the end of the day, after a long day, a massive slog.

Fiona 37:30

Like today.

Ben 37:31

Right, yeah, this is a huge slog. This is horrendous,

Fiona 37:34

actually. No, I mean like today. We're doing this at the end of today.

Ben 37:37

Yeah, this is a slog. We've had a busy day. This is a slog. This is bad. Well, I've eaten. I'm not depleted. My glucose isn't depleted, I don't think.

Fiona 37:46

Yeah, but we're in a food coma.

Ben 37:48

I'm tired. And if people, for example, have been really busy all day and have just not had a chance to eat or have just snacked, I think there's something to it. Hmm. And also if they feel or they've heard that willpower depletes over the course of a day, if they've heard about ego depletion or if they're running off motivation or if they're running off willpower for the most part, chances are they could still get to the end of the day or they could still be in a situation where they will make a decision based on the fact that they feel willpower, motivation is depleted based on the fact that they've got this finite mindset and also how they've eaten during the day if they have just been snacking during the day and they've not had a proper meal which a lot of people do a lot of people are busy at work so they just snack and they get to the end of the day and they're starving and they're stressed and everything else yeah maybe the glucose comes into play a little bit

Fiona 38:48

well yeah because I used to always say if I work out I want to work out in the mornings yeah because what am I going to do on Tuesday when I work out I'll be coming from work I'll be starving I'll be able to work out Freaked out. I have to eat.

Ben 39:01

Right. Okay. I'll have a little snack then. Yeah, that's fine.

Fiona 39:04

It's that easy, isn't

Ben 39:07

it? Without completely binning ego depletion, I still think there's something there. And also if there's, if you're doing lots of hard tasks back to back, if you're doing lots of tasks that are really grim back to back, yeah, again, I'm on board with the whole willpower and motivation, they don't really deplete. That is in your head. But if you're doing lots of tasks back to back from a psychological perspective, it's hard, it's hard to, I think it's hard to fully remove the idea of you've only got so much energy for certain tasks. I don't mind the idea that we're running as, I don't mind the idea that we're, come on, please. Fuck's sake.

Fiona 39:51

It's like a skipped CD. It keeps going and going and going.

Ben 39:56

Yeah.

Fiona 39:58

Sorry, darling. Proceed.

Ben 40:01

What was I saying?

Fiona 40:04

You said it four fucking times. No, I didn't. I

Ben 40:09

didn't say it once.

Fiona 40:11

I said two or three words three or four times. Yeah, I can't remember what you were saying.

Ben 40:15

Right, so what's your opinion on it?

Fiona 40:17

What, to equal depletion? Well, yeah, it makes sense.

Ben 40:21

Well, compared to...

Fiona 40:23

Carol.

Ben 40:23

Yes.

Fiona 40:24

Is that her name? Carol. Well, um... I kind of get what both of them are saying. Because obviously you have to have the willpower to do it, regardless if you're feeling shit. If you've got the willpower to do it, you will just do it.

Ben 40:37

No, but the point is it goes back again to...

Fiona 40:41

Depletion.

Ben 40:42

This horrendous episode. Self-discipline. Discipline. The point is if you're disciplined, if you can ingrain the discipline, ego depletion, take away the science, take away the glucose stuff, for the most part, probably runs more on willpower and motivation, which in your mind, if you're running on both of those day to day, and that's what gets you through the day, chances are you're going to think they will be depleted. They deplete. If that's what you're running on, that makes sense. The whole battery theory, what's his face? Oh, Mr. Trump. He's talked about how he runs on a battery. He hasn't got the energy to exercise because he's just too busy.

Speaker 02 41:27

So

Ben 41:28

he's not on board with the whole world. If you exercise, you become more energized. Realistically, the only reason this is getting done is because I'm disciplined.

Fiona 41:37

Yeah. And

Ben 41:38

I'm

Fiona 41:39

just doing what I'm told, so I'm disciplined.

Ben 41:41

If I wasn't disciplined, there is no way in hell on a Sunday evening when I'm half dead, I would turn that camera.

Fiona 41:50

But it's motivation as well, isn't it?

Ben 41:53

Yes, but if I was relying just on motivation and willpower... Yeah, we wouldn't be doing it. This wouldn't

Fiona 41:58

be happening. I'm glad not.

Ben 41:59

This would not

Fiona 41:59

be happening. I'd be having an episode of Brassicon right now.

Ben 42:02

Yes, right. Okay, finishing off then, Fiona. Right, so, Dweck.

Fiona 42:06

Who? Oh, right.

Ben 42:08

What's your...

Fiona 42:09

Dweck.

Ben 42:11

Carol Dweck. Yeah. What's your opinion on it then? Summarise.

Fiona 42:15

Oh, I can't do that, Ben.

Ben 42:16

What's your opinion on the fact that it's a limited belief, isn't it? Your willpower will be... It doesn't run out.

Fiona 42:26

No. It will only run

Ben 42:29

out if you think it does.

Fiona 42:30

Yes. And it's all these different factors that impact on it, I suppose. Would that be the word?

Speaker 01 42:39

Yeah.

Fiona 42:39

Yes. Impact. That's not the right word I'm looking for. No, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is.

Ben 42:45

But I think the fact that it's based more on mindset can be very useful for a lot of people. Yes. So the ego depletion thing Let's move that. Let's get rid of that.

Fiona 42:57

Well, the ego depletion thing is a bit science-y.

Ben 43:01

Let's get rid of it. So for some people, pretending it doesn't exist. Because if they read that, they're like, oh, well, there you go then. What am I meant to do? Ego depletion. Glucose levels. They haven't got a clue what they're talking about. They don't know what it means, but they see that and go, oh, God, yeah, well. What am I meant to do? I've had a long day. Ego depletion. I'm knackered. The willpower's all gone. Motivation's all gone. I'm going to have to eat the pizza. What more can I do? I can't go to the gym.

Fiona 43:25

I think people struggle... Oh, sorry, this is completely going off topic. But I'm assuming people will struggle more in wintertime with motivation with the darker evenings. I do. I was thinking that yesterday about... What day was it? There was a day that you had a client at like six o'clock. Must have been Friday. And I was at your mum's and I was thinking, God... who's coming in training at six o'clock like it's dark

Ben 43:53

well it's not too late is it really yeah I know six o'clock that's about right that's after work

Fiona 43:57

in my head it's dark and it's just like absolutely not for me fair play to them

Ben 44:05

okay right I guess we're not talking about the film then

Fiona 44:09

The Pursuit of Happiness

Ben 44:10

yeah

Fiona 44:11

2006 8 out of 10 on the IMDB

Ben 44:13

8 out of

Fiona 44:13

10 yeah That's quite good. A struggling sailor's man takes custody of his son as he is poised to begin a life-changing professional career. Oh

Ben 44:24

dear.

Fiona 44:25

That's that.

Ben 44:26

Discipline, you turn up for these.

Fiona 44:27

Director Gabrielle Muccini. Do you have

Ben 44:30

anything to say about the film? It

Fiona 44:32

was a very nice film.

Ben 44:33

Okay.

Fiona 44:34

It was one of those films where you feel as though you are ruching for him and you do want him to get the job, but obviously it's very...

Ben 44:40

Will Smith.

Fiona 44:41

Yeah, it's Will Smith. And, well, actually, I don't really mind him, to be fair. But...

Ben 44:45

He's not a bad actor, is he? He's just got that messed up situation at home.

Fiona 44:49

You kind of know how it's going to pan out. It's based on a true story as well. But you kind of know how it's going to pan out. You know that he's going to improve because... Well,

Ben 44:56

because

Fiona 44:56

it's based on a true story, yeah. Yeah, but you do know how it's going to pan out anyways. But it

Ben 45:02

goes back to what I've said before. Was it the last episode? Because it was bleak. There was another episode recently which I was harping on about. You don't hear from the losers.

Fiona 45:10

It's very emotive, would be the word.

Ben 45:13

You only hear from the winners.

Fiona 45:14

Like that scene where he's in the bathroom.

Ben 45:16

Holy... Sorry, are you not listening to what I'm saying?

Fiona 45:18

You're not listening to what I'm saying, Ben. No, no,

Ben 45:20

sorry, I was talking.

Fiona 45:21

So was I, and then you butted in. No,

Ben 45:23

no, no, it linked to what you were saying. It was directly linked to what you

Fiona 45:26

were saying. So anyways, very emotive scene when he's in the bathroom where the sun's lying on him and he's there like with the tears filling in. He's trying to control his emotions, but he's struggling. Found that was quite emotive. And then when he found out he got the job, it was a very different situation, but it was the exact same response that he had. He was still trying to contain the emotions, but there are different emotions. And then you only see him lose that little bit of control when he went outside and was like...

Ben 45:52

Yes, that was,

Fiona 45:53

yeah. So yeah, it did touch on a chord, but you knew how it was going to end. The wife hated

Ben 46:01

her. No, yeah, sorry. We could probably do a slightly better review, but there's absolutely no way I'm talking about this film now. I'm done. I'm done. I'm sorry. And I don't... The ego depletion, I'm not on board with it, but bloody hell.

Fiona 46:11

Can I just say...

Ben 46:12

Can I just... Can we go back to my point

Fiona 46:14

quickly? Oh I'm so sorry darling. Yes proceed.

Ben 46:16

We only hear from the winners don't we? So unfortunately there's lots of people like Will Smith out there who have done maybe lived a similar life and never got off the street.

Fiona 46:27

Yes.

Ben 46:27

Never got to that position.

Fiona 46:29

In this movie all the homeless people actors they were paid $8.14 minimum wage for the hours that they worked.

Ben 46:36

Oh well they're homeless were

Fiona 46:37

they? Yes they're actually homeless people and they were paid to get a wage for doing it.

Ben 46:40

Oh that's nice of them.

Fiona 46:41

That's good.

Ben 46:42

Yep.

Fiona 46:43

A bit of trivia for you?

Ben 46:44

Well, actually, there's not much to say about the film, is there, really? No, it's... It's about, yeah, perseverance.

Fiona 46:48

Yeah. Discipline, yeah. Yeah, he was very disciplined, but sometimes he wasn't very nice. But you understand why he wasn't very nice, because he was obviously... The wish was on his shoulders, wasn't it? And he wasn't sleeping. He put too much pressure on himself.

Ben 47:03

Happiness is... You're always pursuing happiness.

Fiona 47:06

Yes.

Ben 47:06

Yes. So the reason he used the word pursue is like, oh, okay, why do you say that when it comes to happiness? You're always pursuing happiness. You're never fulfilled. The hedonic treadmill. Jefferson, he was talking about the hedonic treadmill. That's what he was talking about. That's a disgusting review.

Fiona 47:25

It's embarrassing. Can I just say, the one time that we did a really, really shit review, the camera stayed on the whole way

Ben 47:34

through. It's still on.

Fiona 47:35

The whole way through. That's

Ben 47:36

a shame. That's a shame. It's

Fiona 47:38

fine. It's fine.

Ben 47:39

Basically, Will Smith is only getting up in the morning because he's disciplined. If he was relying on motivation and willpower, he wouldn't have done it.

Fiona 47:51

Yes.

Ben 47:52

That would have been to please that a long time ago.

Fiona 47:54

And you know what? He got there.

Ben 47:59

Right.

Fiona 48:00

Goodbye.

Ben 48:00

No, hang on. Hang on, sorry. Oh, right, he's got more. Okay. Well, let me finish off then because the review was a disgrace. Let me finish off on a couple of... A definition of discipline. We should have probably opened with this because that would have made sense. How do you define discipline?

Fiona 48:12

How do you define it, Ben?

Ben 48:13

Well, there's a few. There's a few definitions of discipline. But Ryan...

Fiona 48:17

Just one.

Ben 48:18

Ryan Holiday, he's... Have you heard of him?

Fiona 48:20

Yep.

Ben 48:21

Obstacle is the way.

Fiona 48:22

Obstacle is the way.

Ben 48:23

Destiny is...

Fiona 48:25

Destiny at all.

Ben 48:25

What's the... What's the other one? What does he do? Discipline is destiny. Ego is the enemy. He's

Fiona 48:32

very good. Yeah, he is, yeah.

Ben 48:33

Stoicism. You know, Marcus Aurelius and...

Fiona 48:37

All them buckles.

Ben 48:38

Holiday asserts that discipline is the ability to restrain your base urges in pursuit of what's best for you. Oh,

Fiona 48:44

I like the way he used the word pursuit there.

Ben 48:46

When you're disciplined, you act with moderation and you prize your ability to have total control.

Fiona 48:51

Total what?

Ben 48:57

Over yourself.

Fiona 48:59

Control, I think he said.

Ben 49:01

Listen to you too much. Long day.

Fiona 49:06

Proceed.

Ben 49:08

Like all humans, you face temptations. But you can resist these temptations when you need to. And if you do choose to indulge in them, you do so with restraint. Are you okay there, Fiona?

Fiona 49:22

Yeah. I've literally just gone completely over my head. That

Ben 49:25

was very good, actually.

Fiona 49:27

Well, read it again then. Wasted on you. I literally didn't take a word in.

Ben 49:30

Here's another one. Abraham Lincoln.

Fiona 49:33

Oh, I know him.

Ben 49:34

Discipline is choosing between What you want now and what you want most.

Fiona 49:40

Why don't you start with that one? That's not very simple. Why do you have to always go with the complex ones?

Ben 49:46

Right. Okay. What's this one? Oh, I've got something from Mark Manson about pain.

Fiona 49:51

Go on then.

Ben 49:52

What pain do you want to endure? What pain do you want?

Fiona 49:55

None.

Ben 49:56

Choose your regrets.

Fiona 49:57

Oh, okay. What do

Ben 49:58

you want to suck at? Okay. Okay. That will do. That

Fiona 50:01

will do. That was just...

Ben 50:03

No, but it's fine. It's one of those. It's fine. You should be able to turn up and get these done whenever. And at the end of the day, it's just an excuse. It's just an excuse. It would have been so much easier not to do it. And it's just an excuse. It's just an excuse, Fiona. It's discipline. Discipline has made us turn up today. I forgot what else I was going to say.

Fiona 50:30

I do think that we're best off scheduled for our 8am morning stuff. Probably, yeah.

Ben 50:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fiona 50:35

I do think

Ben 50:36

that. But then also you have to do another 80 of these at least.

Fiona 50:39

How many have we done? 15,

Ben 50:40

16. So you've got to do another 84, 85 of these. It's just part of the course.

Fiona 50:47

You've

Ben 50:48

just got to keep turning it.

Fiona 50:50

And then it comes more natural. You've got to

Ben 50:51

practice what you preach.

Fiona 50:53

Because if I

Ben 50:53

wouldn't have turned up and I wouldn't have put this subpar performance in, what does that say?

Fiona 50:58

I take my performances. Oh, where were you,

Ben 50:59

Ben? What about the episode on discipline? Oh, yeah. I just didn't have the motivation to do it. Oh, hang on a minute.

Fiona 51:07

That doesn't make sense.

Ben 51:08

Yeah, it was late on Sunday. Long day. It's just the willpower wasn't there. Oh,

Speaker 01 51:14

okay.

Ben 51:15

Oh, dear. Right. How ironic.

Fiona 51:18

We showed up and we did it. That's the main thing. Goodbye.

Ben 51:25

Pushing your health. Come on. Push

Fiona 51:26

for life.

Ben 51:27

Push for health.

Fiona 51:28

Pushing your health.

Ben 51:30

They do get better. This is a rough one.

Fiona 51:31

I mean, the pulls of life.

Ben 51:35

There's an app.

Fiona 51:36

There is. There's an

Ben 51:37

app. You can join the app. There's so much on the app. So much on the app. Access to me. Hundreds of videos of exercises. All sorts of guides to keep you disciplined. To help you learn self-discipline. 30 days.

Fiona 51:52

Join. I'm actually starting 30 days.

Ben 51:54

Yes. Only join though. Only join if you're willing to become self-disciplined. Don't join for 30 days if you're relying solely on motivation and willpower. Because chances are, you get to the end of the 30 days, you might not have reached the goal. Oh. Oh.

Fiona 52:15

There's something there. There's something there. You just need to say goodbye. Remember, no pain, no gain.

Ben 52:20

Self-discipline.

Fiona 52:20

No pain, no gain.

Ben 52:23

Sorry?

Fiona 52:24

No pain, no gain. Okay. Is that a movie?

Ben 52:26

Pain and gain. We've already talked about that.

Fiona 52:29

All right, goodbye. Okay.

Ben 52:30

Pushing you

Fiona 52:31

off. Wonderful as a life.