Are You A Liar Liar Around Your Diet?

Want fat loss that survives real life, not just a good week? We cut through the noise by separating unchanging principles from interchangeable methods, then show how to choose the method that fits your actual routine. We map the four types of dieters so you can spot where you sit—especially the “unknowingly non‑adherent” trap where snacks, oils and sips quietly erase your deficit. 

From sleep and stress to protein, fibre and social pressure, we share the small levers that move adherence without turning your life into a spreadsheet.

We dig into hedonic and emotional eating and why unconditional permission to eat often reduces binges more than rigid rules ever will. You’ll hear how controlled food variety supports consistency, why low‑hanging‑fruit habits deliver significant returns, and what the Kevin Hall study reveals about ultra‑processed foods and spontaneous over‑eating. We also unpack the distinction between fast and slow weight loss, when each approach makes sense, and the often-overlooked phase that most plans skip: maintenance. Think of maintenance as a skill—practice it to protect both results and headspace.

Metabolic adaptation gets a reality check: you’re not broken, just more efficient. Maintain muscle with protein and resistance training, stay active, and adjust your approach as needed. Finally, we challenge “clean eating” language and outline a flexible approach that uses structure without moralising food. If you’re tired of plans that look great on paper but collapse on Friday night, this conversation offers clear, evidence‑led steps you can repeat on busy weeks, not just perfect ones.

If this helped, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a sane plan, and leave a quick review—tell us which habit you’ll try first.

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot.

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes:

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom.

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition!

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days!

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits?

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER

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Transcript

Setup, Banter & Title Reveal

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are we in shots?

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Yes, Ben. Are we in shots? Yes. Did you have you press record? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Yeah. Yeah, it's red.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Okay, let me just In session.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

That's what that means, isn't it? Okay. In session.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Ooh, there's an elephant in the room. What's the elephant?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

MNU.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

MNU! Why is that an elephant?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I don't know. Well you wear the t-shirt, you've got the folder.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Pushpull health.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Pushing your health.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Push pull health.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Interrupting me. You're not gonna introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

What is the pushbull health catchphrase? There's a few. There's a few. Pushing your health on the poles of life. That's a good one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Would you like to change something about a rotten attitude?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah, yeah, rotten attitude. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

A diet or a form of exercise that you can stomach.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Finding a form of exercising stomach. Twice a week, ideally. And a diet you can stick to for longer than ten minutes. It's quite hot. Is it all the light?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, probably because of the summer outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

They're not on shot, are they? They slipped out.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Slippers, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Are my legs on shot? The pins?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I can't see that far away, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

My eyeside shock and Well the last couple of videos have looked a bit weird. Or like floating heads.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yes, because you insist on having it so close.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

No, I don't. The camera's back. It's the lens, Fiona.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Oh, I don't know. Anyways, let's not talk about the camera.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

You have to respect this though, don't you? With YouTube, with the video. You've got to respect it to a degree. You're in charge of all this now. Are you happy? I didn't want to be a little bit more. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

And I got a new lamp.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Do you respect it though? You're expecting the family all to sit down, gather around the TV and watch this.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Am I?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well it has to look half decent, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I don't watch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

On YouTube. Audio? Whatever. As long as you can hear them, fine. M and you. Nutrition. Evidence-based nutrition. I'm becoming an evidence-based practitioner.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Nice day.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

But I have said in previous episodes that I am an evidence-based practitioner. Which I am. But I'm not. As of recording of August 2025, I haven't done my exams yet. So I'm not an MNU-based practitioner. Not yet. Not officially. Have to be careful. Of course I expect to pass my exams with flying colours. But that's not the point. I haven't done them yet. Be careful. Be careful what you say.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yes. Don't jinx yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

You're on video. This goes out to a few subscribers.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

A few.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

A few, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Okay. Good.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Oh, we'll get there, Fiona. Better don't I? I told you this, I told you this, didn't I? 18 months ago. There will come a time where we will revisit this about the subscribers. Because I mentioned them before and you laughed at me. You laughed me out of the room.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Did I?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

And I vowed to come back and there was a few more. And there has there is a few more. There's a few more, but we need a few more.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

We need a few more on top of the few more.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Oh, I mean.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

And then I will bring it up out of the blue. And you won't be expecting it.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Maybe I should subscribe.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

And I'll be laughing you out of the room.

unknown 3:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Okay, let's go. No one cares about this. It's preamble.

Principles vs Methods of Fat Loss

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Wait a second, Ben. Are you lying? You're a little bit of a liar liar when you come to the subscribe subscribers.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Nice, that's move. Very good. It is recording, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yes, the red line's there.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Sophia.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Okie dokie. So what's the title of this week's episode?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

You just said it, didn't you? Pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Did I?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Are you a liar liar when it comes to your diet? Working title.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Oof.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

And the film today that we're reviewing is Liar Liar.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Pants on Fire.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah. Pretty smart notes, I think, today. Just rattle these off.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I have to say very good notes today, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I've removed the wackiness. No more chat GBT wackiness.

unknown 4:20

Good.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

This is serious. It's pushable health in association with MNU. No more chat GBT wackiness. I had to keep saying, oh, okay, yeah. So the sorry, the ChatGBT wackiness at the end, that's just me keeping it in. But I'm I'm concerned that it was coming across that everything we were talking about was from ChatGBT. That's not the case.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

It's my notes.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

You spent the MU lectures doing these notes.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

My notes, M and U, stuff from the lectures.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Oh, is that why you were able to come down and watch Ted Lasso last?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

And I just I just kept the wackiness in because Fiona liked it. Because ChatGBT, however many times you asked it, it just couldn't help itself. It would do the notes, go great, this is great. They look good, they look professional, they look smart, and then it would add its wackiness because they thought it was funny.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

It was. Some of them were quite good.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

So we've removed the funniness. This is serious. No jokes.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Liar, liar. Surely.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah, I started watching Ted Latto, but that's uh that's a different subject. That's so good, guys.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

You need to watch it.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

It's so let's go.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Let's go, come on.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Right. Are you a liar liar when it comes to your diet?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Uh we've said that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Principles versus methods. Fat loss requires a calorie deficit. That's the physiological principle.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

That's good, yeah. Are we all clear with that? To lose body fat, oh you must. You must. B.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

In a calorie deficit.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yes, that's correct.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

That's a physiologically principle.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It's pretty tough to lose body fat if you're not in one. Some would say it's impossible.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And what we call trebenza.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

It's difficult. Very difficult. Body composition. People's body composition changes. Well, you may lose fat. Anyway, that's a whole different subject. Move on.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Okay. So that's the principle. The method is tracking calories, fasting, low carb, or flex flex flexible dieting is just a delivery mechanism.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Okay. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Lots of methods. There are lots of methods to get you into a calorie deficit. Which one's gonna work for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Which one's gonna work for you? Which method is gonna work for you? There's plenty.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Probably tracking calories and fasting.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Well, because I don't usually I go from like probably eight to what, half ten? Mm hmm without eating. So that'd probably work for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yes, lots of methods. Lots of methods. Good methods. Unfortunately, a lot of people are just obsessed with pooing all over those methods. Methods that are are good. Tried and trusted. But people just poo all over them. A lot of time for their own financial gains.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

And that brings us to the next point. Most arguments online are about methods, not the principles. So you've got everyone saying you need to do this, you need to do that, but everyone's saying the same thing. Well near enough. You need to be in a calorie deficit. But how you do it? It's up to you. They don't say that. Yeah. But a lot of people do. But not all.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah. You'd hope.

unknown 7:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

It's pretty black and white. But it should be.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Adherence trumps optimism. An imperfect method done consistently.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Optimisation.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

What did I say?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Optimism.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Oh it's optimism.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, you gotta be optimistic. To get into a calorie deficit, you have to be bloody optimistic.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

An imperfect method done consistently beats the perfect plan done inconsistently. Of course. I like that. That's lovely, yeah. I like that. That's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Well done, Ben.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Well done, Ben. Why more starts failed?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Oh, next section. Oh, okay. Should we announce this? Should we start? Does it sound better? I don't know. To sound more professional, do you have to go right? That's section one done. Any thoughts? No, I don't think so. Let's move on to section two. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Well, that's section one done. Any thoughts, Ben, on that? Even though you were interrupting me all the way true to tell me your thoughts, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

I think that's quite good. I never would have thought about the calorie deficit being the physiological principle, to be fair, and the other one being the methods. Oh, I sound croaky.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

I think you would have, wouldn't you? Surely. You've been around me long enough.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

I never looked at it like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Two separate things. We have talked about this before.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah, I know, but I've never actually looked at it like that. Okay. I just oh you just need to calibrate. I never looked at it as a principle.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

That's why I get you to read this out. Yes. So you're learning.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

I am learning. But I do agree most arguments online are about methods.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. Some methods are wackier than others.

Why Most Diets Fail: Adherence

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Next section. Why most diets fail? Adherence. Oh, I thought you were gonna jump in there. Most people don't fail due to poor metabolism, cortisol, or a leaky gut.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

This is just an example.

unknown 9:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Of just. Well, it's not wackiness, but of some of the reasons why people might say they're not losing weight.

unknown 9:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

From the lecture, for example, these are these are some of the reasons. I can't lose weight because of this. What comes up a lot?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I've got a poor metabolism.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, it's a broken metabolism. That's yeah. And for some people. Not morbid. It's not like it. And for some people, they haven't got a broken metabolism, but they might have a much slower metabolism. So that that is a real thing. The vast majority of people that say they have got a slower metabolism, or it's actually broken, are telling porkies.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Oh, low lowers.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Elevated cortisol. It's a thing. But for the most part, cortisol is not stopping you losing weight by itself. It's the behaviors that might be stopping you losing weight. Leaky gut. Not a thing, I don't think. Pretty sure it's not a thing. We will get to gut health in the future.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Oh no. I hate gut health.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah, there's a lot to it, though.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

There's a lot to everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

This is MNU.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

This is evidence-based.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

So most people fail because they cannot consistently adhere to the plan. Diet diets often focus on restrictions over behaviour and psychological factors such as stress, lack of sleep, rigid rules, break adherence faster than hunger alone. Adherence is a skill, not a trait. It can be coached and improved. I like that section.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Did you have any more on the the reason as to why people can't lose weight?

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Say genetics as well. The rest of my family are big. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah, that's I wouldn't say that's wacky. That's yeah, that's okay. I'm talking wackiness, Fiona.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

I don't know. I'm not really in that circle, am I? Well, go on, you give me a couple more examples. No, I'm just What's the wackiest one you've ever heard? Go on. Enlighten me.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

That's to why people are are failing on their diet?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Oh, I've got one.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Because my put my court put in my calories too high.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Or for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Oh. Oh yeah. Oh that was nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Well, is that wacky? Sometimes it might be. Well, it's not taking accountability, is it?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I think most people will do the opposite, which we'll get to. Rapid fat loss, aggressive dieting. Which I'm which I'm coming around to a bit more. Not for everyone, but for a lot of people, I don't think that's the issue. With the average personal trainer, if they're trying to maximize results, they will throw their client a pretty aggressive calorie deficit because they know it will work. If they stick to it or they get close to it.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

But then they're miserable. Okay, well, anyway, we won't get into that. But so that's that section done, Ben. Anything else? Thank you. Anything else you'd like to add? Or anybody? That's fine, isn't it? I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

There's always there's always more stuff to add, but we're just yeah, it's just time. It's just getting through it, getting some content out.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yes. So there's four types of dieters. Go. Name to four. Part of your revision code.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

I know something what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Go on, name to four.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

It's not revision, it's right in front of me. Yeah, no. That's not that's not useful for revision.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Just what's useful is like, oh, let me just uh just tell me what they are, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Okay, Fiona, do your job. The four dieters are this is an example.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Oh, am I reading it?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

It's your job. Oh. It's your only job. So I'm not set from the lights, of course.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Knowingly adherent, knowingly non-adherent, unlo unknowingly adherent, and unlowingly non-adherent. Oh, yeah, that's hard. Freaking hell. Knowingly adherent sticks to the plan on purpose, often successful, but can become overly rigid. Example, they hit their protein target, track meals accurately, but can panic if things go off plan.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah. Not many people fall into that category, really. Or they can do for a very short amount of time.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

So is it like somebody who's very, very good all week, hitting everything, being on a calorie date?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

No, no, it's not that.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

No. No, these are people that are adherent. All the time.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Okay. Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

A bodybuilder, for example.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Oh.

The Four Types of Dieters

SPEAKER_00 14:15

You can tell them to do anything and they will do it. You can only eat your chicken and broccoli while standing on one leg. If it's in the plan, they're doing it. Your next chicken and broccoli meal is at the bottom of that cliff. Jump off and grab it. We'll do.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Okay. That's a big thing. So that's the reality.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

And some people can, for short periods of time, be that adherent. I think most people can.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Can they stick to that then after two adherent or two rigid? No.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

No, because not everyone's a bodybuilder. So for two to three weeks, maybe. That makes sense?

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yes. Knowingly non-adherent. Deliberately chooses not to follow the plan, but is honest about it. Example, yep, I had three beers and didn't track dinner. I needed it. They may feel guilty, but they're not confused.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

You have to be careful. Be careful, those people. A lot of my clients, to a degree, might fall into that. Where they have been, at times, knowingly adherent. Stuck to the routine, lost a good amount of weight, if that's their goal, got stronger in the gym, etc. Get to a certain point. Step away from that, and then become knowingly non-adherent.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

But is that the right word? Deliberately. Is that the right word to use there? Well because for putting in all of that work, you wouldn't then deliberately go and change everything. Unconsciously, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

That's ChatGBT, maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Because they're not deliberately saying, oh, I'm gonna go out to McDonald's and have this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Well.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

They're just like, oh, I've had some beers, I've had some dinner, it couldn't be bothered tracking it.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, but then they they are deliberately not following their if they are trying to follow a diet of sorts, or they want to lose more weight. And they deliberately don't do that, and they do something else, which is fine. I'm just very conscious, I'm just very careful. I don't take that type of client for granted. I'm always concerned that at any point they might be wanting to lose more weight, like everyone does. Everyone wants to trim up a little bit, lose a few more pounds, etc. I'm always conscious that at any point that client, that for me, is fine because we're both in agreement. At any point, hopefully they will feel comfortable enough to go, right, Ben, oh, let's jump back into this uh knowing the adherent again. I'm ready. Let's do a bout of it. Brilliant, okay. Well, you know what to do? Let's make some tweaks. I'm conscious that at any point, clients that are knowingly non-adherent can all of a sudden go, oh my god. I'm not too sure about this anymore. I'm paying you loads of money, and I'm not losing weight. Nothing's changing. I'm not making any improvements. Got off to a really good start, and now I've just spent six months doing this. Oh, I'm not happy. Oh, hang on a minute. Oh no. But you're not tracking. Where's this come from? And that might have been brewing for months, so I don't know about it. How's things? Yeah, good. Yeah, I know. I probably could lose a few more pounds, but hey, I like the sessions, I like you, you're great. I just love coming down to the private push mile studio. I just love being on the app. This is brilliant. Okay, sure. You don't want to make any changes? Nah, no, I'm good. Yeah, you know, summer's coming up, yeah. Whatever. Brilliant. Okay. Just let me know if you do. All right, we'll do. Oh, this is rubbish. Waste of money, you suck.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

But then that's accountability as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

But believe it or not, a lot of clients, depending on what type of client base you have, you may get a lot of knowingly non-adherent clients who might be perfectly okay with it. On the surface. Oh, yeah, I messed up this month. Oh, God. I think I'd be like that. I put on a couple of pounds. Let's let's just do one more month. Okay. My prices are increasing. They're doubling, actually. Is that okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'll do better next month. Okay, you sure? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that responsibility. Yeah, no, I know. I had a few too many beers. What am I like? Try again next month. I may or may not stick to the routine. I may or may not stick to my diet. I don't know. Who knows? Who cares? Yeah, loads of people like that. If they're getting something from it. That should. No, but if they're getting something from it.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Well, yeah, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I'm very cautious of those people. Just in case. Just check in. Are you sure? Everything okay? You are knowingly non-adherent. Is that fine?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

And do you explain that to them?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Or is that a bit much? Well, it's setting up the environment where they can at any point, hopefully, just say, Yeah, do you know what? I have been knowing the non-adherent for a while, actually. I would like to lose a little bit more weight. I would like to maybe start improving my performance in the gym a little bit. What can we do about that? Great.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

How many people do get led that?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Let's get to work.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

How many people do you get led at?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Most of my clients.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

To a degree. Oh, good. They get good results. And they are happy on the surface to stick to those results. Try and get to maintenance. We'll get to that. Get used to being at maintenance. They're not looking to lose loads more weight. I'm sure they would like to continue making improvements. But they're accepting of it. They're not coming in going, oh my god, I just I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's happening. I'm not eating anything. I'm getting 25,000 steps in. What's going on? We'll get to that now, won't we? They know what's going on. They know that they are knowingly non-adherent.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

So unloan on oh, why did it have to be so mouthfully? Unknowingly adherent does the right things out of habit without tracking or thinking too hard about it. Examples eats mostly home cooked meals, moves regularly, doesn't overly rely on willpower. This is the long-term goal for most clients. Is that you?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yes. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

That's you.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

That takes a long time, though. Yeah. Takes a long time to get to that point.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Well, that makes sense. That's a dream, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

No tracking. You can eat pretty much what you want within reason. You naturally move a certain amount. You go to the gym X amount of times. It just becomes part of the routine. Worst case scenario, if you start putting on a few pounds over Christmas or the summer or wedding season or on a holiday.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Go back to being knownly adherent. Yeah, I just need to so you can swap between each of them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Turning up the dial, up and down. Oh, just oh, let me just turn out that dial a little bit. Oh, just a bit more adherent, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I like this episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I'm smeltering.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Unknownly non-adherent. Tinkster following the plan, but isn't. Oh yes. This is where most people get stuck. Example for getting snacks, underestimating portions, missing calories from drinks or cooking oil. Often very frustrated and confused. I'm doing everything right and it's not working. Maybe that's me. Maybe I'm between knownly non-adherent and unknownly non-adhered. Oh, you forget the snacks, don't you?

unknown 21:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Oh you do.5% chocolate is a killer in that fridge. You forget about that. And that coconut oil. Oh, and that bottle has squash. That squash. What do you call it? Fizzy. Sparkling. That's 20 calories in it.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, if you drink a whole bottle, yeah, it starts to add up a little bit, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I only drink a bottle a day, it's 20 calories.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

For the whole bottle?

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Is it?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah. It's normal sugar. The one in Aldi has more, but I prefer the little one that's not as sweet. So that's that section, Ben. What do you have to say about unknownly non-adherence?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Well, not much. You tell me. Well, like it says.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

I think it's uh most people get stuck there. Yeah. I think people often forget about coconut oil. How much is in it? How much is how many calories is it per 15 mils? Did you say?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Of olive oil. Yeah. 115.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

And peep people just get it and they just go, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

It's a health hailer, which we've discussed as well.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Olive oil, that's good for you, isn't it? It's good fats. It is.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

But calorific if you're trying to be in a calorie deficit.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Lot of good fats. Avocado.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Oh, I love a nuts.

Hidden Calories & Portion Blind Spots

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Nuts. Great fats. Good for you. But very easy to overconsume. Nuts. Oh. Oh, we'll just get a handful of nuts. What's that, 50 calories? 500. Sorry? You're just eating 500 calories of nuts. Nah. It's nuts. It's good for you. It is. High in calories.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

And then you've you've just consumed 500 calories. What? How many nuts? A drizzle of olive oil. Yeah. I've seen it in action.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Just a drizzle. That's a thousand calories. Nah. Drizzle. Yeah, it's drowning. It's drowning in olive oil.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

You're making me question it. Just be careful, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Just be careful.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

So it's I feel as though a lot of knownly non-adherent and unknownly non-adherent people are the main ones. Because the knownly adherent and the unknownly adherents are those who seem to be very, very disciplined. A lot of people, when it comes to diet, are probably not very disciplined. They are for the first couple of weeks. As you said, that'll be knownly adherent. But then things start to slide. So would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yes, I think so. Unknowingly non-adherent. That's uh Yeah.

unknown 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

That's a biggie.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

A lot of people sit there.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

I'm doing everything right, can't lose weight. It's like the metabolism broken.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

It's like the um um oh cork fallacy. The diet coke. The diet cork fallacy, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Oh, that's different though. Well, yeah, but it's true calories, isn't it? The Diet Coke fallacy is different in the sense that I think that people will have a Diet Coke to mask the additional calories. Oh well, I ate a whole birthday cake, but washed down with Diet Coke. What's the problem? Okay, yeah. Good to save some calories on the Diet Coke, but you've just eaten 5,000 calories. No problem. What's your goal? Um trying to get into a calorie deficit. Okay, how much are you moving? Ah, sit on a desk all day. Okay. Are you going to the gym? No, I don't like the gym. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

We have a problem.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

We've got work to do, yeah. We've got some work to do.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Next section. Factors that help improve adherence. This is from lecture 3.5.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Go, we need to right come on now. Come on now, Fiona. We need to uh there's lots here.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Sleep. Poor sleep increases hunger and reduces decision-making ability. Stress, chronic stress leads uh chronic stress reduces adherence through emotional eating. Protein increases satiety.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Oh, that's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Sports muscles reduces cravings. Supports muscles. Supports muscles reduces cravings. Fruit food variety. Too much equals chronic fatigue. Controlled fatigue.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Slow down, Fiona. Slow down.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Too much is chronic fatigue.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

No, it's choice fatigue. It says choice.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Oh. Food variety.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah, too much equals choice fatigue. Choice fatigue. This is an interesting one. Let's just touch upon it very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Controlled variety improves consistency.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Controlled variety improves consistency, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

I'm getting excited now.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

What did you take from that one?

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Uh I read it so quick I didn't even read it.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Sometimes when you're dieting, limiting the amount of variety that your diet has is is probably a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

So what, eat the same thing?

What Improves Adherence

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Eat a lot of similar foods, yes. So at some point, all the foods that you love, you can use the we'll get to it in a sec, I think, the uh if it fits your macros. If it fits your macros. So if you are dieting, yes, you can technically continue to squeeze in those slices of pizza, but it might just become harder as you go. So sometimes you want to have you want your diet to be quite boring. Not forever. But people might think, oh well, I'm more likely to stick to my diet if I've got a lot of variety. If I can still eat a lot of different foods, just less of. So I don't get too bored. So I quench my cravings. Yes, that all sounds good, but are you are you pushing it a little bit too far? Are you trying to cram in foods that based on your current goals and the fact that you are trying to lose weight, if that's your goal, is it unrealistic? Is it unrealistic to continue to eat half a tub of Ben and Jerry's at this moment in time? It's doable, but is it making you more miserable? Just because you're obsessed with oh, I need to have variety. I can't just eat a lot of the same foods that are a little bit boring, but are nutritious that I enjoy aspects of. No, can't do it. I refuse. Are you making your life a lot harder? People will think, oh well, my life's a lot harder if I if I remove all these foods, then I'm miserable.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

But you're not asking to remove all the foods.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

It's just getting the balance, isn't it? It's just getting the balance. Right, let's whiz through.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Fibre slows digestion, increases fullness, self-monitoring, tracking, photos, measurements, improves self-awareness, social environment, friends, family, and coaches can all improve or undermine consistency.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

That's a big thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Ooh, undermine consistency. Oh, sure, it's only one night. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

It's a killer, isn't it? It is a killer.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

I hear that a lot. I've heard that a lot over the years. People struggling because their husband, wife, friends, family just aren't on board. They're just not having it. Every weekend we go out for bottomless brunch with the girls. It's difficult, isn't it? If that's a thing, and you go, can we try something else? Go for a walk and a coffee?

unknown 29:33

No.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Well, if it works if it works for three or four people, they're not gonna change just to suit one person, are they?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Or I'll come, but I just won't drink. What a bore.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Well yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Honey, I've had a bad week. Should we get a takeaway? You know, I'm I'm trying to be a bit more conscious. So, yeah, I'll just I'll get something, but maybe I won't get the crispy duck. I'll lay off that this time.

unknown 29:59

Go.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

You've become so boring since you started that diet. Since you started going out to the private Pushwelf studio, you've become insufferable. It's only one bloody box of crispy duck. Won't hurt, will it?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Oh, but it does.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Well, no, technically it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

And then what are we doing the following day? We're gonna go out for dinner with all those extra calories too, and that glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

It's not saying that you can't do some of that stuff. It's just if your partner, husband, wife, friends, family, if they're not supportive, it makes it a lot harder.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

That's the reality, isn't it? Who wants to see the other person get results? Lose a lot of weight, change their life. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't. People don't want to hear that, do they? Well, it's like that out loud.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

It's kind of like, oh well, it's impacting me now because I can't get the takeaway. You're making me feel still can't.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

You're making me feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

You can still get that takeaway, you just don't need the other person to get the takeaway.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

You lose two stone, and I'm over here just shoveling it in. Even if I say, Yeah, I support you, Fiona, yeah, whatever, yeah. Keep doing your thing. Oh God. But you losing loads of weight is just making me feel worse and worse. Because I can't do it. I'm not ready for that yet. I don't want to. I'm not that interested. It's life-changing.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Next section. Coaching to live, not just to lose. I like the way you've worded these. Well done. The diet industry is built on transformation stories, not long-term results. Don't interrupt. Clients are often only taught how to lose weight, not how to live at a healthy weight. Maintenance. Yes. Diet phased must be planned, but so must maintenance. Maintenance is a skill, holding results through routine, not restriction. Real coaching includes setting the expectation that dieting isn't forever. Very good section, Benjamin. Very good.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

That's nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Yes, very good. So maintenance is where you're at your target weight or at your what's the word? Goal was. So maintenance is when you've reached your target weight or your goal, and then it's just continuing at that target, so not slipping into bad habits or anything like that. So it's keeping at that weight, say, or keeping at that energy.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Very useful for a lot of people, yes. Hard though.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Very hard, I'm assuming, because if you're not if you're s if you then decide to stop tracking, do you then become a little bit what's the word?

Social Pressure & Comparison Traps

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Well, it's also if you're if you're watching the scales. They're going down, clothes are fitting better, you're just seeing results week to week. It's like, oh this is amazing. Inches off the waist, oh keep it coming. Okay, let's just let's just spend two or three weeks here. Stay there. Up your calories a little bit, go to maintenance. Live there for a bit. Oh. Okay. I didn't lose any weight this week.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

But that's okay. Because you didn't gain.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Yes, but it's hard, isn't it? Yeah. It's hard for a lot of people. But I'm I'm staying the same. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, do not like it.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

My waist is the same. Yeah, just keep going. Because this is where you want to be for forever. The throat's going. Why's the throat going? What's going on? No, that's fine, let's keep going.

unknown 33:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Just stay here.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

I'm back to the the don't be over. Okay, okay, okay. Keep that on. Don't take that out, man. That's comedy value. Stay here.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Get comfortable. Because this is where you want to be long term. Maybe not at this current weight. Yes, you still want to lose a bit more weight. You still want to implement more habits. Get better in the gym. Get stronger. So we're not saying you're going to be staying here forever. It's just stay here for a little bit. Get used to this. Bask in the results that you've got so far. Enjoy it. Look at this. This is great. I haven't lost anyway. For ten days. Yeah, okay. Keep going. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

That's difficult. What would happen if they put on a pound?

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Exactly. Or hell breaks loose, does it? Which they will.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yeah, if to think it's their calories.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Even if it's just walked away. If they're going out to maintenance again and they're staying there, they're going to put on weight. Doesn't mean it's body fat though. But most people automatically assume it is. Oh my god, I've put on two pounds of pure fat.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

If you're under weighing skills, people just we spoke about it before, didn't we? People just literally get so focused on the weighing skills. They can, do you? I hate weighing skills. Hate them. I go by close.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Lots to say on that section, but I think we've got unfortunately we've got plenty more to get to say.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I think it's kind of self-explanatory, Don. You did a good job.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

To a degree, yeah. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

So next section is the social pressure and comparison. Comparison. Oh. Community can be supportive but can also cause shame. Comparing weight loss progress or rate of loss adds unnecessary pressure. Group environments such as Slim and World, Weight Watchers, online groups, often reward weight change above habit change. Progress is not linear, and expecting it to be creates disappointment. Coaching should help normalise ups and downs. I'll never forget those times when I was on Slim and World going up on that scales and then writing it in my book what my weight loss was or my my increase was. Oh, what happened this week then?

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Oh do we need to be careful? I don't know. Do we need to be careful? Oh, just like I should have said I should have said weight loss clubs or something.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Weight loss clubs. Do we need to be careful?

SPEAKER_00 36:07

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

We'll just beep it out.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Well, you so you've got experience is the thing. So I guess maybe I haven't got experience. This is just based on me talking to clients. And in many ways, I actually find it quite boring talking about Slimming World and Weight Watchers.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Well, I've been to lot I've been to lots of different weight loss groups in the past, some in Ireland, some over here, and it's always been the same. Oh, so what happened this week? You didn't reach your target.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Is it the same?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, literally every time I've been to what, probably three or four different I mean, is it the same now?

SPEAKER_00 36:35

That's what I'm saying. Well I haven't. Have we progressed? Are we now talking about calorie deficits?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And then you go into a little group afterwards, if you wanted to, and you'd be just kind of talking about your week and what went wrong, what went well. And if you put on two pounds and your aim was to lose two pound, then you're kind of just sitting there like, but actually, Barbara, my jeans are looser.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Have you gone to the toilet today?

SPEAKER_02 37:03

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Maybe it's just a massive turd then.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Last week I came at 8 a.m. It's now six pm.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Oh right. You've had yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Big breakfast, big lunch, lots of liquid.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

So yeah, you sat there and you are ashamed. You feel you feel shamed and you feel so disappointed in yourself. And then you go home, you're just like, oh.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Please someone reach out.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Deflated.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yes, someone reach out from.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

What's it like now?

SPEAKER_00 37:29

I've got clients. The thing is a lot of my clients may have gone to Slimming World or Weight Watchers or something similar in the past, but they haven't been for a while because they're with me now.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Well, obviously it didn't work for them if they were you.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

They work, don't they? These these weight slimming clubs.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

They're they work, but they're not sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

I'm just unsure if they teach the basics.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

No.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

I think the wider picture is the whole scales and basing your progress and the week and how everything's going on a number.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

In front of people. And I think it's not just these these groups, it's just, it's if you're in a Facebook group. If you're with lots of oh please.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

If you're with lots of people, if you're with lots of people, and everyone's trying to, everyone's got similar-ish goals that might revolve around some form of weight loss. And some person, for whatever reason, on the group, how many people are in the group, oh, I've had a bit of a bad week, you know, this happened. Work, kids, stress. I went off my diet, I had a bottle of wine, unplanned. Oh God. Oh, it's okay. You got this. Sally, you got this girl. And you think, oh, that's good. That's motivating. That's that's exactly what you need. A big community of people who are trying to do similar things.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

But it can also be demotivation as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

But then Sandra, oh God, Sally, you got this. Oh, sorry to hear that. Another two pounds this week. Lost. Okay. Mmm. Okay, right. Oh, good for you. Good for you, Sandra. Yeah, but Sally, you got this. You got it. You got it, girl. You just keep going. I'm having a fantastic time over it. I've had a really good week. I'm on cloud bloody nine. You got this. And you can't be a dick about it, can you? Because if you then go, oh, do you know what, Sandra? I don't want to hear about that. Screw you. I'm having a really tough time over it.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Then you're a negative nuts.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Well, well, sorry, Sally. Like I said, you got this. It's enough, isn't it? You got this. You just didn't have it this week.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Maybe next week.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

And I hear this from clients who are in Facebook groups or have been in groups in the past around diet, weight loss, stuff in the gym, whatever. And some of it sounds pretty grim because everyone's human. So people who post in the group, hi, I'm new to the group, or this is my six-month transformation. I hope you don't mind. I'm in my knickers or I'm in my boxes. I feel quite embarrassed and I'm very self-conscious, but oh, this is a big step for me. And I've got a lot of excess fat and stuff, but I feel I'm getting there slowly but surely. And they post that and they hopefully people will go, Oh my god, you've done amazing. You've got this, you've done great. Some people might go, Oh, yeah, good, you know, well done, but that's a bit too much for the group. And can you not? Because that in some way shames other people who are having a bit of a tough time and haven't lost that amount of weight. Oh, God, okay, sorry. I thought we were all here to patch everyone on the back and say, Well done, you got this.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

But only if it suits everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Maybe. Communities, they're great. They can be very useful, very motivating, but they can go wrong.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah, well, if everyone's on the same page, if everyone's losing, then they're great because everyone is supportive. But if half of the group is losing and half of that is gaining, then it also becomes then a little bit contentious, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Maybe. If you're going to these these slimming clubs, weight loss groups, for the community aspect, yeah, great. If if you find comfort in talking about how it's going, how your how your journey's going, how the week's been, brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

A lot of people just go in and go out, get weird go because Barbara at the counter has already shamed them.

unknown 41:34

Well, what happened then?

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, it's just if that's the case, if that's still the the model, if it's not changed, if it's not improved somewhat, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

It's been absolute years.

Hedonic Eating & Permission to Eat

SPEAKER_00 41:44

You can get the recipes, you can get all the all the good stuff that you might need. I've heard some of the recipes are quite good. Yeah. So that's fine, yeah. And the low in calories.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

My quiche that I make is still the well, haven't I done it? The quiche that I make is the slim and worm.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

As long as the yes, as long as the recipes are, these are the amount of calories, and here are the macronutrients, not oh my god, this has got nine sins, so be careful.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

It was no sense.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

That's where I switch off. It's like, oh no, that's a shame. We're demonizing foods. We're still demonizing them. No. Oh careful, that's got ten points. Oh no. Stop. No, no, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

But the Slim and World Chocolate Bar doesn't have any points. Oh, it's got one point. No sin. Sorry, sin.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Once again, please. This is just based on not my experience, because I've never been to one of them. But you've been.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

And this was what 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Clients have been recently, or or some clients that I have, I believe, still go. Great. If they're getting something from it. And if it is just the community aspect, brilliant. All we're saying is that with the examples laid out, it can go wrong.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Is it still five pound to jump onto scales, I wonder?

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Oh, yeah, and they're very cost-effective, aren't they? As well. Which is yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Well, it's 20 quid a month when you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Okay, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

But five pounds every week, you'd you'd get on to something.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Okay. And I'm and I'm assuming that includes recipes and it includes lots of other bits and boxes.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Right, well, yeah, there you go. And then you've got somebody tracking your way, and then if you lose just say half a stone and you hit your target, you're getting a little certificate.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Hmm. Yes, right. So we're up against it. I'm up against it, Fiona. I'm on the back foot. No, but I am. I wake up every day and go, God, you know what? I'm on the back foot. What I'm trying to sell, what I'm offering, is a tough sale. There are lots of options, lots of free options. Lots of low-cost options. But do you want to find a form of exercise you can stomach? No, I don't. No, I don't. Not at all. I'm okay over here. I'm okay over here on the sofa. I know I should exercise, yeah. Move a bit more. Be a bit more conscious of all the things that I shove in my gob. Yeah. But you know, I can take it or leave it. That's most people. That's what I'm up against. You can take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Right. We need to move on. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

That's the thing, isn't it? That's the thing. If you've got a leak in your roof.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

You fix it.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah, you need so you need a plumber. Your toilet's broken. Yeah, you can try and do it yourself, but really you need somebody who knows what they're doing. So you have to get a plumber in. You have to get someone who knows what they're doing. You can't really take it or leave it. Or for a very short amount of time you can. Yeah, I could just, you know, poo in a bucket for a bit, but not long term. I need to get a plumber in. Exercise, dieting. You can take it or leave it forever. And you'll be perfectly fine. It's a tough sell, Fiona.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

It is.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

That's why you gotta do these. Next section, you've got to appear on camera.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Next section. Hedonic. Hedonic?

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Hedonic, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Hedonic and emotional eating. Not all eating is about hunger. Hedonic eating is driven by pleasure, emotion, boredom, or reward seeking. Emotional eating can start short-term relief but creates long-term problems. Clients often say they are starving when they're actually psychologically deprived. Absolute versus relative deprivation. Feeling restricted even when calories are sufficient. I think that's very true, isn't it? Where you wouldn't you obviously so you wouldn't really say about boredom. You'd be just like, yeah, that can't send a hand, but actually reward seeking as well. Oh, if I lose five pounds this week, I'm gonna go get a takeaway. Or I'm gonna have that bottle of wine with the takeaway. You give yourself that reward for losing that weight. And then you're just like, oh well, I lost this week, so I'm gonna do that the following day as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I imagine that's maybe a thing with it with some of these slimming clubs as well. If you look if you lose weight, oh great. Let's have a let's have a naughty treat. Fine. But not all weekend. Oh, I've put on weight. Oh, okay. Effort button.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Oh, I had a trick.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

What's the point? Slam it. Slammed it.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

That was the story of my life.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

People think weight loss when you're in a diet or you're on a diet and you're trying to lose weight is this.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

No, it's that. Oh, it's that. It's wavy.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Up oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

It's not that.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

It's up and down. And all around.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

And that's life. That's life in general, isn't it? Yeah. That's life.

unknown 46:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Christmas. Oh my god. New year. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Well, wedding season could be borsh, couldn't it? Because it could be up and down. You lose weight for the wedding and then it goes up because you've been on the bench.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

So it's that, isn't it? It's that. But sometimes it's Christmas, it's just it's just there. It's not that. It's just that. It's Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Fine.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

And then you've gone into January.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Into January as well, because Dan Jan January. January is such a depressing bloody month.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

So you're bored of meat and you're just like, oh well, they have to eat all the food that's in the house because Christmas is just But that's life.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yes. That's life. You find you're never going to be satisfied. So you try and get to somewhere where you're reasonably content. Get to that set point for your body where your body's content. Your body's like, you know what? I'm reasonably happy here. We put on a few pounds during different times of the month, different times of the year. We put on a few pounds at different times of the year. But you've got the habits in place now. You've got a routine. That dial. Oh, let's just turn it up a little bit. Okay. Oh, here we go. Not even that, it's there. We want there, don't we? We want to spend most of our life here.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Stability.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Here.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Oh, dial. Yeah, okay. That's just. Oh, Christmas. Woo! Yikes. Okay, anyway. Yeah, I forgot about that. Glad we remembered it. Good. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Well done, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Good for you, Ben.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Unconditional permission. Next section. Unconditional permission to eat.

Low‑Hanging Fruit Habits

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Oh, sorry, Fiona. Just two, two. You you what? What's going on? Jesus, she's broken.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Just turn the dial on. You alright? Up tea. What's this meant? U-P-T-E.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah, you just said it. Then we just very quickly we have to move on.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Yeah, we're only on the second bloody bit.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

The hedonic bit.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yes, a lot of people will will not binge or come off their diet or eat a food that's not on the plan through being starved. I'm so hungry. God, I'm just I'm so restrict. This diet is so restrictive. It's more around because they are restricting themselves of all the foods that they'll love. Of everything. So it's not the fact that they're hungry. Oh my god, I'm so hungry. It's the fact that they've replaced every every food that they'll have with something else they don't.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Like broccoli.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Yes, but you're seeing the point.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Yes, I see the point, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

A lot of people might might fail.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

It's decraven something that they want.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yes, it's not because they are starving.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah. It's craven.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

It's because they've removed everything else that they enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

And are not satisfied.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Satya. No, that's not the right word.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Satiety.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Yes. Okay, right. Okay. Holy hell.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

So unconditional permission to eat or up tea.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Yeah. Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

So bloody healthy, no, like restriction. Right, so what what does UPTE stand for?

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Unconditional permission to eat. That's yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

It's just very confusing in my little head.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

Restriction drives obsession. Allow them permission to eat forbidden foods, reduce their emotional power. Ooh, we've got a reference here.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Oh, yes. Good point. Good point. This is MNU. This is evidence-based. And it's been it's just been lazy. It's been lazy. I've put the tie on, I've got the top on, I've got the folder, but it's lazy. I've barely referenced studies. We've barely referenced studies. It's just not, it's just lazy. A lot of this information, well not a lot, some of this information in previous episodes may have come from a study or has been backed up at all times through evidence.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Have you not been putting them in the in the No, not all the time.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

It's lazy.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

You have to.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

It's laziness.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

I like to read Harvard.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

I've been conscious to actually reference an actual study.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Bustos at al. 2007 says. Women and 2017. Women allowed to eat wait, what? Women allowed to eat bread, lost more fat, had better mood and better adherence to those who avoided it.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Yes, of a study. Bread versus no bread.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yes. Kind of like that from the menu. When they're served a breadless plate.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Oh right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah, bread is great.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

That's pretty nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Bloody love it.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Yeah. Reframing. I'm choosing not to eat this right now versus I am not allowed.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Gotta be very careful with the words. The terminology is a big thing. Clean eating.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

I can't have that.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Good and bad foods. On and off a diet. Careful.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Exposure to previously off-limit foods can reduce fear and binge risks. Exposure to previously off-limit foods. Gradually. Gradually heads clients realize that no single food is inherently threatened. That's a big one.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

That's a big one.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

That's a big mouthful.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

If I eat that one food, I'll get fat. Okay, let's just try and let's just add it in. Let's just try and add it in bit by bit. Yes. Did you put on any weight? Did you stick to your routine? No, no, I didn't actually know. Right. Maybe you can eat that food sometimes. Maybe that one food by itself is not getting you plump.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Plump. Okay. Helps dismantle. It just seems so unnatural saying it. But we've moved pop we've moved past it. Helps dismantle food fear and moralising around bad foods.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Good and bad foods.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

So if I eat one bad food, I've ruined everything. I've been eating well. Now it's all ruined. If I start, I won't be able to stop. Oh, negative Nancy there, aren't they? So these combat fire if not paired with structure. Clients may need support and boundaries, not a free-for-all.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Yes. Like anything. Good and bad points.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Good.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

That can go wrong.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Very wrong.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Let's move on.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Low-hanging fruit method. Next section. Low hanging fruit method. Focuses on focus on simple high return behaviors, such as protein at every meal, five to ten minute daily walks, reducing liquid calories, and better sleep routines. Best habits are those that can be repeated during stressful or busy periods. Choose habits that fit your current life, not your ideal version of it. Ease of implementation plus magnitude of effect.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Implementation.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Ease of implementation.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Plus magnitude of effect brings back brings bang for buck.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Equals best bang for buck. Wow. Yikes, okay. That's nice. That's a shame. Because that's quite important that bit.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Why didn't you just say it?

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Touching upon those two very briefly.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Which ease implementation.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

And magnitude of effort.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Of effect. Come on. Come on now, focus.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

I'm hungry. I'm losing focus.

Ultra‑Processed Foods: The Kevin Hall Study

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Right. Yeah, so in the lectures, adding those two together. So adding those two together, the higher the score, the easier it may be to take that habit and start applying it to your life. But of course, it's still individualized. So for some people, some of the examples here might be a lot easier to implement compared to others. So it's the best bang for your buck overall.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Oh, okay. I take things quite literally when I read them, obviously. Or I can't read them at all. Examples of this would be swapping to low calorie drink or coffee options, whole grain versus refined grains. Carl Atal, 2017, showed a minus 92 calorie per day difference. Sleeping more. Tasali at al 2022 found increased sleeps reduced intake by 270 calories per day. It's the little things I struggle with. Okay. Kevin Hall at al 2019.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

No big big study this.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Ultra processed diets leads to 508 calories per day more intake than on-processed, despite meals being matched for fibre, sugar, and palatability.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Hmm. Now, one thing on those, most people, I imagine, if their goal is to lose weight, to lose body fat, will then automatically, if you if you show them these studies or you show them some of the options they may have that they can start implementing, whatever's the one that reduces calories the most. Which is fine. So like the the Kevin Hall study, processed versus ultra-processed foods. Oh, that's fine, yeah. I'll just do that. Yeah, I'll just get rid of all ultra-processed foods on my diet. No problem. Right, that's okay, fine. That could be quite difficult though. It's all well and good saying that, but that could be quite difficult to implement for your lifestyle. Even though based on the study, it might lead to you consuming less calories, removing all ultra-processed foods from your diet. Might not make a lot of sense. Might be very hard for you to implement.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

It's not very confusing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Is it?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

It's a lot to take on board. There's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Okay. Does that make sense though?

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

What works for your lifestyle, not just how many calories it reduces.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Swap into lower calorie drinks. Coffee. Start there. Yes, fine. But for a lot of people, that's like, oh, it's just a no-go.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Oh, eating ch eat eat chewing slowly.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah, again. Oh, so here's some are you just listing out some examples here? Right, okay. Yeah, some habits that maybe you can start implementing. And then based on the what was the phrase there? Ease of implementation.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Ease of implementation.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Plus magnitude of effect.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Magnitude of effect. You could bang something. Best bang for both.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

So increasing fiber. Protein every meal, like we said.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Putting your cutlery down between bites.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Chopsticks.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Oh, you're a good one for the chopsticks.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

If you're quite good at chopsticks, I wasn't initially. I'm better now. So maybe maybe I I can eat food a bit quicker with chopsticks. But it still helps. It still does definitely help.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

I remember you in Thailand that time. I think I've got a video of you with your chopsticks. You're bloody useless. Now you're very good.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

They're not easy.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah, they're not easy. They're hard.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

So if you're rubbish at chopsticks, start there.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Consume as many meals as possible using chopsticks.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

You eat everything with choppies now.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

I try to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

So in some cases, changing just one behaviour can trigger spont spontaneous energy reduction across the day.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Oh, this is a different section?

SPEAKER_02 57:47

No, it's the same section. Oh no, it's not, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

God, yeah, the throats. The throats have gone today. Are you are you unwell?

SPEAKER_02 57:57

I'm a little bit. I told you I had a rough night.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Right. So that's yeah. So you've made me sick.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

And plus, as I said, on Friday it was like 29 degrees. Yes, it was 19 degrees. We lost 10 degrees. Okay. So my body's not able to handle that. That's a lot of degrees.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

Right, anything. Okay, before we move on to the spontaneous part. Anything else, Fiona? Did you understand that low-hanging fruit method? Did that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Yeah, kind of. I understand.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Which bit didn't?

SPEAKER_02 58:28

No, the uh the it that does make sense. It's the it's this bit, the best bang for buck. I'm not really sure about that terminology. I understand the ease of implementation implementation and the magnitude of effect. I get that. But I don't understand the best bang for your buck.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

The best bang for your buck for your life. So the best outcome. So it's almost what what's gonna be what's gonna take the least amount of work for you to implement into your lifestyle?

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Oh. Like eating at a table.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Yeah, just see that there. Okay. So that's fine. There's the habits there, yes. Okay. No liquid calories, food swaps.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Not food sharpen when hungry. That's dangerous. Yes, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Reducing food variety. Spoke about that already.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

Skipping breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Is that on there?

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Right, fasting. Yeah. Okay. Okay, right, let's move on.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

So next section, as I kind of said, spontaneous calorie reduction. In some cases, changing just one behavior can trigger spontaneous energy reduction across the day. Example, adding more sleep, increasing protein, removing liquid calories are all shown all shown to result in clients eating less overall without consciously trying. Mechanism improved satiety, better mood regulation, reduced cravings, low hanging fruit works because it often Has second order effects, fewer snacking events, better decisions, and more structure.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Okay, that's fine, yeah. I think that makes sense. Oh god, what's going on? Oh god, I'm unwell. What's happening? What have you given?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Everyone's dying, but every ben every everyone banged.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Oh, Jesus Christ. Let's move on. Let's move on. This episode's been okay. It's been okay. Let's not ruin it. Let's not ruin it. I think it's been okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

We're talking about a study.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Yes, so we're expanding on the Kevin Hall study that we briefly mentioned about.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Is it Kevin Hall? A zone study or is it at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Uh I I imagine it's at all, yeah. I imagine there's a few more people in there.

Fast vs Slow Weight Loss

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

We have it up here. Let me just because we need to quote it correctly, Ben. Yes, it's at all, Ben. God. The Kevin Hall Atoll study, 2019, which was based on ultra-processed versus on-processed food. So the randomized control inpatient study comparing ultra-processed and on-processed diets. Meals were matched for macronutrients, fibre, sugar, sodium, and palatability. Participants on the ultra-processed diet consumed 508 calories per day more than those on on-processed diet. Wake-in occurred rapidly despite no change in reported hunger. Drinks included with meals had fibre added but still contributed to overconsumption. Shows the powerful, this study, this study shows the powerful effect of food structure and processing on energy intake beyond just calories or macros. It highlights why limiting liquid calories and ultra-processed food intake is often a highly effective low energy, low effort strategy.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

I like these studies.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Kevin Hall at al.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Are you massively surprised by the fact that people overconsumed on ultra-processed foods?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

No, not really. No. The thing with the And then the drinks as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, the drinks. That's I think that's a problem. You can match everything. And they did. But the drinks is a problem. Yeah. There was a lot of drinks there to consume. Yes, you put fibre in the drinks, but it's like three or four drinks. With your meal. Make sure you drink that because it's got fibre in, that should keep you fuller for longer. I might have one. But two or three. I'm not I'm not that thirsty, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

We're drinking, we're our meals, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

But it was the only way to do it, to get the fibre in. Physiologically, yes, but psychologically, drinking lots of drinks with fibre in it's not very satisfying, is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

No. I reckon it'd be kind of a bit gloopy or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

I'm sure it's fine. It's just not very satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Well no, it's a drink. I want me dinner.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

Right, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Next section. Fat versus slow weight loss. Fast weight loss has been unfairly demonized. The tempo study, which is Percell at al 2014. Faster weight loss group lost more fat, had better adherence and did not regrain more than the slow group. Fast weight loss works when good when you have a good relationship with food. Protein intake is sufficient. Resistance training is included. There is a clear plan for what happens after. Fast loss suits those with high motivation, past experience, or high starting body fat. Slow loss suits those with poor diet history, binge restrict cycles, low confidence or high stress. Both can work. What matters is what is what the client can stick to for longer than.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Yeah, 10 minutes doesn't it doesn't quite fit there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Yeah, I'm coming round to the aggressive rapid fat loss. I'm coming round to it. I'm still slightly conscious of like the notes laid out there. Won't work for a lot of people. If you have a lot of weight to lose, yeah, a good idea. Get in, get out. But then it revolves around that maintenance again.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Get in, spend some time at maintenance, go again.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

But are you learning the habits?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

Well, that's the difference at the same time. People it's like a quick fix, isn't it? When you're fast, fit fast weight loss.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

If you're doing it by yourself and you're doing it under wacky conditions where you're not eating. Or you're only eating one type of food. Well you're setting it up to only be sustainable for two to three weeks anyway, regardless. Not that you're coming to the end of that three-week period and going, oh, I've got some decent results here. Lost a good amount of fat. Right, let's have a little breather. Maintenance. You're going into you're going into maintenance and you're increasing your calories because you can't handle it anymore. You can't, you just can't stomach it for any longer. Because you're starving. You're miserable. Not, nope, that's the end of three weeks. Okay. That was, yeah, that was tough, but doable. I feel pretty good. Let's go to maintenance, let's sit there for a couple of weeks. And then we go into another another bout of aggressive fat loss, rapid fat loss. It depends who's in front of you. Like the notes point out. What's your relationship like with food? What's your experience?

unknown 1:05:34

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Anything else to say about that, Fiona?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

No. I'm trying to think I think I prefer the slow one. Because you build up more habits. Obviously, it's great to lose away quick. Great. But you build up more habits, better habits. Maybe.

unknown 1:05:48

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

But you can do repeated cycles of aggressive fat loss. Yeah. That would be the best approach. Not just doing it for three weeks, four weeks, and go, right, that's enough, then yeah, just spend six months at maintenance and then we'll try again.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

So if you're doing an aggressive diet, how would you go about it? Just completely reducing those calories right back.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Well you're getting into a uh substantial calorie deficit, yes. And it's being smart with your food choices.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

And exercise.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Interesting. Whereas you wouldn't have, if you're doing it a slow way, you'd have la less calories but not as less.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Well, you're starting your calories as high. Well, with every diet within reason, you want to start your calories as high as possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

So I suppose And it's the buy-in as well, isn't it? It's right, okay, we can start your calories as high as possible, and we're gonna get you into a 100-calorie deficit. Yeah, okay, that sounds pretty doable. And we're gonna stay there for as long as possible. Right, yeah, I lost half a pound again. Yeah, yeah, another another half pound. Yeah, great, brilliant. A bit slow though, isn't it? I want to lose more. Oh, right. Okay, we could drop down to 200 then. Yeah, all right, yeah. Oh, I lost, yeah, three quarters of a pound. Getting there, it's just six weeks now. I've lost four pounds. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, nice. Ugh, yeah. I thought we'd yeah, I was looking ideally like at least ten. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

So less too aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Yeah, do you know why I uh I binged over the weekend. I was just fed out.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:27

Dusty adherence coming into play, Dorben.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Yes, lots of different features. Yes, so it's trying to get buy-in from the client. Sometimes women maybe, for example, based around their hormones, menstrual cycle, you might have, might be worth it, might be beneficial if you are on a diet to have three weeks of dieting, of being aggressive, being in a slightly bigger deficit, and then having a week off. Based on PMS symptoms, based on how you feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

I might get you to vise me a plan. I'd like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

Would you?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

Please.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

We've tried that before, haven't we?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

No. You just tell me to go on the app. I want you to give me a plan.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:11

I want a plan from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:13

I've asked you before. Will it cost you?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

I cooked your steak last night.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

How much you got? I'm not cheap.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:23

You'll do a lot. Especially when MNU I become evidence-based. Nutritionist.

The “95% Regain” Myth & Maintenance

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

I'm already evidence-based.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Yeah, you've got loads of references coming up.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

Yeah, this is this is better. I feel like this episode has been a slightly more professional. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

It's it's a it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

It's worded better.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

It's yeah. Next section. The 95% regain myth.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

God, I'm I'm really uncomfortable like that's. Nobody cares. That is a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

They claimed that 95% of people regain weight is overstated. Long-term success is possible with behavioural change and support. Anderson et al. Oh. 2001. Long-term weight loss maintenance is achievable with coaching and structured habits. Achievable with coaching and structured habits. Most people don't fail because the diet didn't work, they fail because the support stopped. So going back to Anderson. So is he saying that in order to have maintenance, you have to be coached?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

It might help, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

So you just couldn't go lose tree stone by yourself and then maintain that. You kind of well you could, but most people.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

And also, how did you lose the freestone?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Was it through complete wackiness?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Or aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

Was it, yeah? Was it through, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:46

And then when you go back to your normal, then you're gonna begin that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

It's not sustainable. Yeah. So you just go back to eating as you were before. And you've instilled minimal habits. Minimal habit change. You just couldn't take it anymore. You're doing it for an event or you're doing it for a short time, did the event, came back and thought, oh god. Yeah, I'll get back on it, but just go back to normal for a bit. But I think the biggest thing to take away from this was the fact that you've heard this. I've mentioned it before. Most people regain all the weight after they Oh she lost a weight, but she's put it all back on. Isn't necessarily true? Not all the time. You might put on some weight, but it doesn't mean you're gonna regain all of the weight.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

Unless you're very silly.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

Yeah, maybe. Be careful, Fiona, of your language. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Yeah, but if you're if you're going through an aggressive dieting phase where you get to your target within a couple of weeks, you lose your£10, then you go back to your normal habits, you are gonna put that weight on.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

If you return back to maintenance, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

Like for bodybuilders, for example.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

That's what I mean by being silly.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

So you've learned absolutely nothing. You've just achieved your goal, learned nothing, then done the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

That's what I mean by silly.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

Okay, right. Bodybuilders, for example.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

I don't like bodybuilders.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

Oh right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Yes, that means I don't like big.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

I am. I'm a bodybuilder. Yeah, but I'm a gym bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

Yeah, do you gr oh you do grunt? Oh you do in the gym. I've heard ya. Oh right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Work hard. Training hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

Take a lot of breaks.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

I'm training hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

I don't like breaks.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

I'm not training hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

So anyway, bodybuilders.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

So the hardest part for them, or could be, I haven't stepped on stage personally, but is the is after the show. It's post-show. Getting back to maintenance. Desperately trying not to binge. Controlling the amount of weight they put on post-show.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:00

They really do cut, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

They've starved themselves to death. They're on the verge. They can barely stand up.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:07

Yeah, it can be. So a prep coach, the hardest part for them could be where they really earn their money is post-show.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Now I'm intrigued. How did they do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Who?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

The prep coaches.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Which part?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:24

After the show. How did it get them to their maintenance stage? Well just very slowly.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:29

They continue to coach them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

But is it like very slowly increasing?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

Well, this reverse dieting, the whole different subject.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

And they have to be changed. It's being mindful of it's being mindful of getting them back to maintenance, but their new maintenance. So not before they went on their 12, 16-week diet, which was up here, there's the maintenance. There was their original maintenance. And then they've gone down. Now they've come all the way down here. So their maintenance is there. Not not up there.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

And then what would happen if they put it put it on? If they went back from here to here, would then they lose that muscle tone as well? Well, not the muscle tone, but would they become So just put on a good amount of weight, wouldn't they? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

And psychologically, how's that making them feel?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

Yeah. It's very interesting. Because when you think of when you do think of bodybuilders, you do think it's just like, oh, they're just gym. But there's a lot, there is an awful lot to it. They put their body through such challenge. Like when they're doing when they're doing their shows or whatever, they do all of those like sauna, sweat bags, everything.

unknown 1:13:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

Don't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Sweat sweatbags, what are they called?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Yeah, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

You know what I mean? There's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

You hope they don't do that. You hope they don't need to do that as such.

Metabolic Adaptation Explained

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

Well, they'd not do it before the show and then have to get a tan. Oh, everything. It's it's put in your body during all the looks. It's quite something, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

In many ways, you can admire them. But but the point is, is that most people aren't trying to be a bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

Well, no. In that sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

So yeah, they're not looking to put fake tan on and go on stage in their pants. Not necessary. Don't need a six pack.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

You'll be we don't like six packs, do we?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

Absolutely fine without a six-pack.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:08

You're miserable with one. You were miserable when you had yours, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

Yeah, yeah, no, not the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

For those two days.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

Not the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

Joking.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

Oh right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

And joking. I never had one, so it'll start. Does start.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Ah, recommended. You should try it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

Imagine how moody I'd be.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Right, that's enough. That's enough. We still want to do the fear. Next section. Oh, goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

There's only two more sections and then goes. Metabolic adaptation. A quick word. It exists, but it's not an excuse. Metabolic rate drops slightly when weight loss with weight loss due to less body mass to maintain decreased neat, which is when you move less.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:45

Non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

That's the one. I was just about to say it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

Oh another study. Oh, lovely.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

Dulo? Dulo? Dululo?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:00

Sounds about right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

Which one?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Dulo at al 2015. Adaptive termogenesis happens, but it is manageable. Resistance training and high protein intakes helps preserve muscle and neat. There is no broken metabolism, just a more efficient one. Overfeeding leads to increased neat in some individuals. Some people offset large calorie surpluses just by moving more without even realizing it. So they'd be my mates like my nurses. Because when you're underwater, you're doing like 15,000 steps without even thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, anything to say from that? You become a smaller person. You lose weight. You become a smaller person.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

Yes. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

What's shocking about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Well, it it's not shocking, but when people are losing weight, they might get results for a certain period of time, but then they struggle to adapt. They can sometimes struggle to get their head around the fact that they've stopped losing weight. They don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

But I'm doing everything everything's the same. Nothing's changed.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

It's quite addictive, isn't it, losing weight when you do get into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

Yeah, it's and seeing or seeing results, yeah, yeah. Yeah, clothes fitting better, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

Oh, what can I what would I look like if I looked at it? Looking better in the mirror.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

Yeah. Body image increases, yeah. It's it's yeah, it can be pretty good. Can be quite rewarding. But sometimes it's that nothing's changed. I'm still on my diet, I'm doing everything the same, I'm moving the same. What's going on? You've just become a smaller person. So unfortunately, we might need to make some tweaks. You need to move a bit more, or we might need to reduce your calories. Because you are now not in a calorie deficit anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:01

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

Yes, it sounds obvious when you say it, but a lot of people might struggle with that concept.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:11

You look ridiculous. Just look to you with the cushion behind you and the tie on.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

It's not it's not making much difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

That's finishing off. Finishing off.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

No, we've got one more section before we finish off.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

Finishing off.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

One more section before finishing off. Flexible flexible versus clean eating terminology. Clean eating often implies moral value to food, good versus bad, which can fuel guilt, binging, and food fear. Flexible dieting focuses on hitting macros, calories regardless of the food type.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

If it fits your macros.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:52

Oh, right. I was thinking, what the hell is that abbreviation? We spoke about that term before, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

If it fits your macros.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

No.

Flexible vs Clean Eating

SPEAKER_00 1:17:58

Which implies that you can eat pretty much whatever you want. If it fits your macros.

unknown 1:18:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

So you have people that are macro coaches. Like that's it. They just go, here's your macros. Hit them. And that's pretty much it. Did you hit them today? Yeah. Did you hit them this week? Yeah. Keep going. Okay. Another hundred pounds, please. That's all the coaching they get, nothing else.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:25

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

Yes. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

But if you're getting results, great job. Doing the job then if they're getting results. And so flexible versus clean eating. It works well for experienced trackers, but can become obsessive if poorly implemented. It's best used as a tool to build flexibility, not justifying eating junk. And it's important to challenge rigid clean eating narratives when coaching for sustainability. Important.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

Okay. Anything about that, Fiona? If it fits your macros.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:05

Yeah. Do as you please. Kind of. Kind of.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:10

Yes. Kind of. Yes, it just starts to get a bit blurry, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:14

Yes. Well, I know exactly what what I would do. I'm not going to have five, if it's in my if I have 1,500 calories, I'm not going to spend 500 calories eating a handful of nuts. And I'm also not going to spend 500 calories on eating a shitload of olive oil.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Okay. Well, they are, I suppose they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

Smarter choices. I know they're good food, but you make smarter choices with your food to feel fuller for longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:35

And every day doesn't mean to be different. Enjoyable food. Every day can be different.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

Like we've discussed. Oh, I ate higher carb meals today. Do you know what tomorrow I might eat higher fat meals? Yeah, that sounds good. Is that allowed? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it fits your macros, yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:54

I ate five cream eggs today. Okay, how are you feeling? Not the best, but how's your macros? Yeah, and I still hit my protein target. Yeah. Okay. Right. Fine. Carry on. If you're doing that every day.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

Imagine eating five five cream eggs. That'd be very sickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:15

That's yeah, that's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:20

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

That's it, isn't it? That's it, Fiona. We've got the bloody film you're reviewing.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:26

Not very good summary, though, you do not need a perfect diet. You need to pla you need a plan that works in the real world.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

For your life. For your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:37

Consistency beats perfection. And coaching is about helping people stick to something long enough to see results. And then helping them maintain these results without obsession.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:49

Coaching clients to live.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:53

Yes.

Film Review: Liar Liar (1997)

SPEAKER_00 1:20:56

Okay. Great. Anything else? Anything else to finish off?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

No, I think that was a very good episode, Benjamin. That was fine, yeah. Your notes were very good. It was referenced very well. Well done. Yeah. The content was good. Very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:10

Hopefully a bit more professional.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:12

Yes, definitely. With that tie.

unknown 1:21:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Oh, God. This film is a good film. Well, we're just going to talk briefly about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:21

Because what more can you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:22

Oh, that was only an hour and a half. I'm exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

Liar liar. 1997.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

So this is the this is the film review section of the podcast. Because this allows me to make wacky thumbnails and to get more people on board. Because these people are like, oh my god, he's evidence-based. God, oh what a bore. Oh no. He likes film. Kind of. He used to run a really successful film podcast. Like he he's a laugh. Like we can we can get on board with this guy. He's relatable. He's not a chicken and broccoli guy. He's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:55

No, he's a stir fry guy. He likes a stir fry guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:58

Brings the lay person on. Here she is. She can barely speak. Ah, they're relatable, kind of. You got me. Guilty as charged.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

That's a shame.

unknown 1:22:13

Take that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:14

Seven, yeah. Take that out. It's a shame.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:16

So liar liar, pants on fire. Liar liar, 1997.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Oh wow. That's very old.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:24

Very old. 28 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:27

So you probably know what this film is about. Everyone has seen this. A pathological liar. Oh god. Oh god. A pathological liar.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:38

That was right. Yeah, continue.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:40

A pathological liar, lawyer, finds his career turned upside down when he inexplicably cannot physically lie for 24 whole hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:50

S big words there, wasn't it? Very big words. Some big words. Thank you, IMDB.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:53

Very big words. Yes, exactly that. Directed by Tom Shadamack.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:01

Shad Shad Yeah, that'll do. He also directed. Oh, I can't remember now. Big uh The Naughty Professor. You've got it there, haven't you? You've got the list. I have the link here to bring the tomb in and I forget. So big year for Jim Carrey.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:17

Oh, right. So yeah, the star is Jim Carrey, right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:20

Big year for him with the movies that he was in.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:22

Oh, was it 97? I just thought the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

Big big big era.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:26

Big decade.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

Big decade for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:27

Decade.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:28

Decade for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

Decade. The 90s.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:31

The 90s was.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:32

Big Carey.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:33

Yeah. Batman Forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:37

Cable Guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:39

Yeah, I need to rewatch that.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:40

Truman Shaw. Well that yeah, Truman Shaw. Dumb and Dumber. The Mask.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

Dumb and Dumber. Just I'm not fully on board with Dumb and Dumber.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:51

Which one was he?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:52

Clip that. That's controversial.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:54

What? You're not on board with Dumb and Dumber. Yeah, just it is God. He was Lloyd. Lloyd?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:01

Yes, I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:03

Yeah. I think I think he's dumber, isn't he? I think he's dumber.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:08

I you never knew. I never knew which was which one was dumb and dumber.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

Oh, I guess that's the point. I think Lloyd was dumber.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:16

No, I think they're about the same. I haven't seen it in years. I remember my brother used to watch it quite a lot, so. Ace Ventura?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:26

Yeah, there's what, three of those? In the 90s? Did they all come out in the 90s? Maybe maybe one came out in the late 80s. I don't know. It's fine. Ace Ventura, pet detective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

Yeah. So yeah. And also other stuff came out as well. Me, myself, and Irene, that's a good film. That's 2000. But that's a good film. That's a funny film.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:48

He was doing he was doing some great work, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's a genius. Yeah, Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey is a is a genius. He's I don't use that lightly, but he's yeah, he's the man. He's he's the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

Yeah, he is very good. He's quite shouty, though. I was kind of dreading watching this film.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:04

Lie, like, well, because a lot of it's just improvised, isn't it? Because it's like, okay, Jim, here's the scene, off you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

Well, he used to say he said in trivia, he said that he used to get so involved in his role, he role, in his role in his character, he would go home physically exhausted. Because you can imagine how exhausting that would be to be like that all of the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:24

Well, some of the best part of La La is the outtakes at the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:27

Did we watch them?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:29

Not this time, but I've I've seen them. You must have seen them.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:31

Yeah, I've seen I've seen some of them, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:33

Ten minutes of outtakes, yeah, of the scenes and him just doing 15 different versions of the same scene. It's it's quite something.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

You see, I'd quite like that if I was an actress or an actor.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:43

It'd be nice to be on set for the day, just to watch it, just to watch it and see the kind kind of comedic value to you. I imagine it's it's exhausting. Yeah. It's very much, okay, well, I could do this for a very short amount of time, Jim, because you are a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:54

But it must be hard for the person working alongside him as well, because they never know what they're gonna get as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:01

Yeah. Trying to keep a straight face, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:04

Yeah, that I say that's even harder.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Yeah. Yes, Jim Carrey, of course, is is uh the star and he's the one. But I think the uh supporting cast do quite well.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

Yeah, so the reason why they casted um your one, what's her name? Maura Tierney. Who played Audrey, the wife. They casted her because Jim and her, she grounded him quite a lot. Right. So that's why they casted her.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:33

Yeah, she's fine. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

And who else did we have?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

Um Jennifer Tilley.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:37

Oh yeah. Yeah. She's, yeah. She's the She's a plaintiff. Is that what they're called? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

She's, yeah, we you know her, I guess from Chucky. She's she's quite big in the Chucky films. She's good and chilling. She's memorable.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

Um, the kid was I don't know who the kid was, Justin Cooper.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

I think the kid is he's not he's probably just about right, actually. He's not too annoying.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:59

He's a bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

The film makes him a bit more annoying. Yeah. So it's not his fault. The film sets him up like I've got here, making the kid wait on the curb. Like, oh, waiting on the curb, oh dad's late again. Oh, yeah, but why is Oh, dad's not coming again? Oh, yeah, look at that happen. Right. So it's not the kid's fault.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:16

Don't tell him he's coming if you know he's not coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

Oh, he's the kid at the birthday party. I'm gonna drop this bombshell whilst everyone's around. The camera's rolling. Oh, by the way, yeah, yeah, dad's not coming. He's he's uh yeah, he's having some he's having some sexual relations with his boss. Sorry. Camera's still on? Good, yeah. Sorry. Make a wish. Awful cake as well. No wonder, no wonder who's upset. State of that cake.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:41

Carrie Oules. Ewles?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:43

Yeah, Jerry, the fake claw. Yeah, does well, yeah. He still apparently gets asked to do his impression of the claw these days.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:50

No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

I'm not sure why.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

Robin Hood Men in Tights.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

He's good in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:56

Saw, oh, he's been in Saw, that's the latest bouncy films that he's done. But yeah. Yeah, as I said, the supporting cast are doing doing good stuff here because which which then make the film a lot better. Just oh, it's the Jim Carrey show.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

It's all about Jim, which it is, but I think the film holds up well because it's not just other people, oh well, I just phone it in because like Jim's the star, look at him. How can I compete with that?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:20

Well, it's it's it's one of it's one of those films, isn't it, where without Jim Carrey, it'd be very, very corny. There's a lot of plot holes, there's a lot of things that are just like that wouldn't happen in real life. But because of it's Jim Carrey, you're so focused on him and what he's gonna come out with next. You're kind of just like, yeah, it's believable.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:40

It's absurd, but it's believable because it's Jim Carrey.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:43

That scene where he's in the bathroom punching himself and all of that, that's none of that sound effect. That's actually him doing it. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, that's like getting his head under the top.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:52

Oh the claw, it's yeah, it's that with his son.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

Right. He used to do that with his own son.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:57

It's very iconic.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:58

So guess how much he got paid for this film?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:02

20 million.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Oh, there we go. Well, he's the man, isn't he?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:06

How did you know too? So this was the first movie that he had done since. Oh, let me just get this wording correct. It was the first movie after the roles in Ace Ventura, The Mask, Dumb and Dumber, Dumb and Dumber, Batman Forever, Ace Ventura, when Nature Calls the Cable Guy, where Jim Curry was happy to have his own hairstyles and not be in makeup. So the reason why he asked is he read the script and he realised he could just be him without anything changes, and he would yeah, I'll take the role.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:36

Fletcher. Fletcher. It's an interesting name, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:42

It's an interesting name. It's a very interesting name. I never really thought of his name, I just call him Jim Carrey. He's Fletcher in his movie, he's Fletcher, yeah. Yeah, I know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:52

Yeah, okay, yeah. Right, any yeah, okay, what have you got for Yona? What's the favourite scenes? I don't know. What how do you how do you do a review? We're still out of practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:00

I think my favourite scene is the pen scene. The blue pen scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

He's just he's just literally losing. Don't ruin it now. Don't ruin it now. Just literally losing his mind. With that pen. The pen is Oh god, that's terrible. That is Oh, it's brilliant. That's that's a good scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:21

Dumbing down the episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:22

I would say the scene with the plane is actually a good scene as well.

unknown 1:30:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:29

No, it's it's where where his head he's there, he's doing it, and you can see he's doing it, and then it shoots inside the plane, and next thing you just see his head.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:36

Oh right, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:38

That's that's just the best bit. Is that what it's absurd?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:41

It's just it's pull over.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:46

Like as though the plane would take off with some eager on a ladder beside it, but yeah, it was the shoe that stopped the plane.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:54

How long was he going to prison for that?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:55

Quite some time, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:57

Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:57

Quite some time. Quite some time. Um yeah, I think Darren, what's your favourite scene? Oh, yours is gonna be the roasting scene where they're in the boardroom.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:08

Uh well no, is it maybe it's a lot. I think it's just it's just that.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Oh, when when he gets to toupe.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:14

Yeah, it's a lot, yeah. Starts doing the Indian stuff. Yeah, it's it's a good scene, but it's it's more about what that represents. Like, oh my god. The 90s, wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:24

Jim is just he's just going for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

This is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:28

Is it my favourite scene? It's a good scene, but is it my favourite scene?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:31

Yeah, it's up there.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:33

But it's more about what the scene represents. Like, wow. Imagine trying that now. Boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:39

It wouldn't it wouldn't be released.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:42

It's the sort of thing where it's the sort of scene where there's just there's just it's one after the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:47

It's the sort of thing that you would then normally during the the rest of the film or other films, you would just have those spread out.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Yeah. Yeah. It's that two pair under window under Walder.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:57

That's a lot, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:58

And it's there's there, it doesn't move. Right, what's your favourite scene then?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

Not sure. Not sure. Don't have one.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:05

You do? Come on, you have to have one.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:08

Well, the aeroplane scenes, probably the bit where he's just asking the plane to pull over. Don't know why, but it's just it's just so absurd.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:17

But but you can actually well obviously you can see him doing it, but you can actually see him doing it because he's so absurd the whole way throughout. Yes. It's not breaking character at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:27

What's the the garage sale when he's uh assistant? The photo frame. That's that's quite funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:36

Does the face it was like ten dollars in the mic? It don't ruin it now, Fiona. God the price mark from ten ten ten pounds to like six pounds fifty or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:47

Does the face, that's that's quite humorous.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

What's up, Fletcher? Your cholesterol, fatty. Dead man walking.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:53

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:55

What's that scene? Um the most common phrase that's used. Or what the film is known for, the phrase beauty's beauty's on the inside or something. Or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:06

That's it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:08

My teacher says that beauty's on the inside. Oh, that's just what ugly people say.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:14

Bloody nineties.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:15

Yeah. I said, surely you can say that now, can you?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:18

I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:21

God, that's not that heavy, is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:22

I don't know, Ben. I don't know about these days. But yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:30

Just a nice film, a nice film to talk about. And I suppose, yeah, the kid was quite quite okay in it, to be fair. Because he he didn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:38

I think the film, like I said, the film made him annoying.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:41

What's with that bloody teacher at school? She was really annoying. Just standing there. Come on, wasn't it Max, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:50

Come on, Max. While all the other 20,000 kids were just running inside. She was just there waiting for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:57

Why is he getting special? It's the film, it's the film. I've got some points here where it's like, oh, it's a film.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

Go on.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:02

But there are a couple of emotional beats for Jim Carrey as well, which he which he does quite well.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:06

A couple of what?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:07

Emotional beats.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

Certain moments where it's like, oh God, when he's talking about, I know, when he's picking up his car, I'm a bad father. His face changes. Tones it down a bit. Oh god. Yeah, I know I am. I'm a terrible father. Oh Jesus. Saying that out loud, that that stings.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:27

But then he just moves on to the next. When he's in the courtroom where he realizes that your man actually's not a bad dad, he's pulled at the heartstrings and then he changes, but judge, and then he's held in contempt. Where he would never be held in contempt.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:44

Because course finished.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:46

Oh right.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:47

Oh god, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:48

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:50

That was actually a goof on IMDB.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:53

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:54

I was told. Right. So I didn't know that really.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:56

So yes, for all the wackiness, there are a couple of moments where it's oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Jim, he's a he's a good actor. He's a good comedic actor. He's he's the best. But oh you can, yeah. Oh, there's a bit of emotion there. Oh, that's that's quite semi. Even little Max. I think it's the bit after the beauty bit. And then Max will say, Oh, what do they say? Come on, Max will say, Yeah, but you make me feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:20

Oh, yeah. Jim's like, yeah, that was sad, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:25

But you're the only one that makes me feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:26

Yeah. Everybody lies. Yeah, but you're the only one that makes you're the only one that makes me feel worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

Oh, coming from a five-year-old, I was quite five or six.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:35

He's five.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:36

It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:37

Six at the end, at the very end. That's the following year.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:41

Yeah, a bit of a low-key birth at the end there. Where's everyone else? Where's the where's the camera? Jim's turned up to this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:47

He had everybody that he wanted there.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:49

Oh, right. Oh, he made another wish. He made another bloody wish, didn't he?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:53

No, he wished for rollerblades.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:54

Oh, that's right, yeah. Liar liar.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:57

Pants on fire. Taking after his daddy. Okay. Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:01

Anything else, Vierina?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:03

No. The whole story's a bit ridiculous, actually. Because he's the only lawyer in the world who's willing to lie.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:14

The film is absurd. Yes, the film is absurd.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:16

But he plays it so well.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:19

Yeah, again, the 90s. Jim Carrey, like, just the mask used to freaking out. Does it get any better? As someone else had a decade quite like that. Maybe in a different genre or film, but bloody hell. And I think it's easy to say, oh Jim, you know what's happened? Do one more, but do whatever you want, Jim. If you want to keep if you want to keep doing Sonic the Hedgehog and just get paid a buttload of money, good for you. You've earned it. Do whatever you want. You've got this catalogue.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:48

Well, those 10 years surely took a tall on his health. The fush the exhaustion from being in character for basically because he had he had very significant roles.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:58

Yeah, but the mask was huge. Well, yeah, and it's not like he's not done good films post 2000, but yeah. I suppose you look at him in Sonic the Hedgehog. I've not I've watched the first one, you think, oh yeah, but you can do more than that, Jim. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:11

Looking at now, would you be looking at stuff that Jim Carrey has done now or in the nineties, you'd be looking at the nineties, maybe the early 2000s. They're his classics.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:20

Yes. So you're just like, oh I know, that's what I'm saying. So if Jim just wants to if Jim just wants to phone it in and do Sonic the Hedgehog, which apparently he's quite good in, so fine. It's easy to say, oh Jim, you can do so much more. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:36

Why would he want it?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

Do something else. Do a sequel to one of the old films. Go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:41

He did a sequel at Dumb and Dumber 2, didn't he? In late.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:44

Yeah, I didn't watch that.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:45

Oh, we did. Was it not a Dumb and Dumber Tree as well, where they're skiing?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:48

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:48

Or is that Dumb and Dumber 2?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:50

I'm not sure how the second went down. I think it was fine. There you go, that's one of the reasons. So he did that. Didn't go down too well, and he probably just thought, ugh, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:59

Yeah. Anyhow, that's that.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:04

Yeah, okay. There we go. Right, pushable health.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:06

Pushing your health into poles of life.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:08

Join the app. If you're online, join the app. After M and U is done, after I've done my exams, pass the flying colours. I qualify. The online stuff is really going to go up a notch.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:21

The app, everything. My presence online, unfortunately, is going to be everywhere. Watch out. These podcasts are just the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:31

People will be referencing you, Ben. Davis, 2024.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:35

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:36

Don't plan on doing any studies quite yet, but just to let you know, on the IMDB, Dumb and Dummer 2 got 5.6. And uh Dum and Dummera 1 got uh 7.2 at 1.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:47

Yeah, I don't think the second one was was that good.

unknown 1:38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:50

But I haven't seen it, so who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:52

Maybe we should watch that tonight. 7.3, apologies.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:56

Watch Sonic the Hedgehog.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:00

Mr. Popper's Penguins?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:01

Oh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:02

Oh, he's good on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:04

It's a bad film, though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:05

No, it's got penguins.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:06

Yes Man. I wanted to do a double feature. Lie Liar and Yes Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:10

Oh god. Oh you couldn't do two Jim Carrey films.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:13

No, I know, but of course. Because we need to end this now. Yes, but it would have been that would have made sense, wouldn't it? It'd have made sense. Lie liar. Yes man. Oh my god. Polar opposite. Both starring Jim Carrey. Because Yes Man, I think, is it's alright. Not bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:28

It's okay, yeah.

Wrap‑Up & Studio/App CTA

SPEAKER_00 1:39:29

Zoe Deschanel. De Chanel, Deshanel, she's insufferable. She's insufferable in that as well. Yeah, she's yeah, not the best. Not a big fan of Zoey. Zoe. Zoe. Zoe. Zoe with two O's. Zoe with two O's. Zoe.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:45

Anyhow.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:46

But yes, man, yeah. I guess in some way is it a sequel to Lie Lie?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:53

Right. I'm going to Okay. I'm going. That pillow's just gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:56

M and you. M and you.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:59

Push pull health. Evidence-based practice.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:01

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:02

Pushing your health to the pulls of life. Get yourself down to the studio.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:05

The private pushwell studio. Or the app.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:11

Everything will be in the bio, maybe. If I remember. Cheers.